Whistleblower Exposing Police & Madeleine McCann Case: Jon Wedger

so I've had on two occasions intelligence Services tell me John you've got no idea what you're doing yeah you know and I have to because I'll die when was the point when you said I need to be a whistleblower we were shut down on big big investigations in which one very very senior cabinet minister was involved with young boys so everyone's trying to push up under the car yeah police officers these were judges these were people for the BBC you know he said John you can't put this out he said this will destroy us past present and future if this gets out you've got to understand you don't know what you're dealing with you don't know how deep this goes then you start talking about this the newspaper get denotices surfed on them Jimmy Savile had died and for the first time what was incredulous isn't it's the truth the old Bill were out to destroy you so this doesn't get into the public yeah yeah and I've been wanting to keep your toes on the line but you don't cross it don't even cross that line we've canopia foreign [Music] doubt the best studio I've been in thank you very lovely very nice thank you very much um I'm really intrigued about this conversation I've seen you everywhere on the internet and I want to roll all the way back where did you grow up and how did you become ex-scotland yard copper right I'm originally from Paddington in uh sort of just Central London just outside um ended up moving away from there out into to the suburbs um but then I ended up back in London um uh I my my journey in uh policing uh because I'm a retired Scotland Yard detective um I I never wanted to be a copper in fact I didn't like them and it was really hard because back in like the 80s there was a lot of football violence and you'd see on the TV the crowds and all that I'm not into I like my fitness but I'm not into anything organized organized sport organized religion yeah you know organized I couldn't go to a concert anything like that I couldn't stand that people venerating another human it's for me it screws me Adam um but there were people I find are incredibly unbelievable human beings you know and I've I've seen many in life you know but they just do good stuff you know so I'm a bit of an oddball in that respect very much a loner um and everything else but I like Humanity you know and I do I like helping people I've always been the same in your 25 years as a copper how many years were you a whistleblower for right so police send back then you have to do two years two years on a beat everyone they've changed it now which is a shame so everyone has to do two years on the beat no matter what rank whatever they never had a graduate entry scheme then so everyone starts off at the bottom which I think is fantastic so I I got sent to Southeast London I've got sent to probably the roughest part yeah you know I want a place I mean that was it was it was a war zone well South East London has got the most bank robbers yeah yeah naughty people yeah oh yeah and Elder London and they tell you it you know there's an air there's a there's this brilliant area in South his uncle the the blue right in Burman Z you know just down from Jamaica Road and they Pride themselves in being thieves and I remember Nick and this guy he looked like Dell boy he had a flat cap all the bag Thieves for Central London come from the blue yeah you know and he said to me he said I'm from the blue and I went all right and he said uh I'm a thief and I'm the best thief in South East London oh okay he said my dad he was better than me said my granddad he was and that's how they prided themselves yeah yeah and and even if you went down there and played and I never thought myself that I look like a copper they'd smell you a mile off and it was just this whole culture that was built around being you know venerate respected for being a thief yeah so yeah so I went there and that was and one must say it was very violent and there was there was an attitude was that whoever got there first got the first punch in yeah so either they punched you or you punched them and that's how it was and they never complained yeah so it was always a fair cop Governor as they say and I can remember being in a pub after work massive drinking culture I've got to say that huge huge midnight he's still yeah early early 90s and uh and this was it was crazy times you know how old were you roughly around this time 24 okay you know uh so um being in a pub and we had this massive tear up where you know me and another fella um with two guys and it was what I mean we were fighting like he was in a playground at school you know he had biting me and I smashed him and we were both covered in blood and you know and it was he went Governor I've had enough I've only enough he went do me a favor give me a salmon and that was a fair Casino yeah yeah I didn't smoke by then but I started smoking you know and and afterwards they give you a pint you know meet me in the pub and they gave you a pint you know and uh there was one incident and uh there was this guy was one who was over the side OTS from prison and uh I worked with a guy and he was robocopy he knew everyone he knew a whole lot you know uh the who's who of of to South London South East London villain and we're going on he said that mini cab because they all went about mini cabs back then he said that sound so he's done a runner from belmarsh or some other uh he said wanted he said he's ample I'd deal with his mate you deal with him so I'll go up and get him out and I said uh what's your name you give me another name Moody name and it always always my mom just before I went in the in the old film I was going through about start my training and I never told my stepdad I was going to be a copper because he didn't like him and he found out through my sister he said are you you're gonna be a cop band I went yeah why didn't you tell me I said well you don't like him he said it's not I don't like him he said I couldn't put up with a nonsense he said anyone left off of me he said I'd hit him and he said something to me he said um I went well what would I do because he was built like a door he was uh six foot seven he was huge and he was just whistling muscle you know he lived outside this man I saw him Tina cow once hey that's how hard he was he chined the cow and uh he was brilliant and I I anyway I mean uh his son still makes for me today son's seven foot ecues as well and I said what would happen if I had sent Nick someone like you I said even grabbing his arm and he's got a pint in his hand he went well gone then what would you do I said and I'm trying to bend it back yeah and he's just drinking yeah and then and I should have picked up and he swapped put his point in his left hand when it's not what I'm going to do it's what I'm not gonna do yeah I thought well that don't make any sense and with that he went bang and he chimed me and of course I Dopey I got my tongue out and I've cut all my time and I've fallen on the floor covered in blood he said son I never meant to work yeah he said but listen it will save your life don't listen to all that yeah as soon as they do that he said just smash him yeah he said them quiet ones they're gonna hurt you so this guy come out he was quiet I said what's his name he said it's different and I went are you sure anyway just check me out check this name out get your little book out and put it on your radio and I went oh all right yeah so stupid idiot and I'm writing this name down with that he's just gone straight on my face and I've gone down and because his makes him punch mama and there's this fight and we're rolling around the floor anyway I did I did him right flipping on that's when he stops and the Cavalry get cold so you do a thing called urgent assistance and when that gets called oh anything and anyone who's nearby they're getting smashed yeah and that's that yeah not like now where you see him get back back then man there was no CCTV they got smashed do what you want yeah yeah and if anyone intervened obviously what you're doing they got it as well it was it was it was like the wild west and it was mad what were you carrying back then as a copper baton okay A bit wood that big okay now one of Batman's attention trunching they're winning your trousers and all I used mindful was breaking Windows yeah I hit a dog with it once I think and that was it I never hit anyone with it you know and I never hit anyone but my CS gas I lost it and what was that what was the rules back then as a copper oh there were rules I mean you've got to go by rules but what happened and what gets written down is two different things okay this guy we take him back to the station and we had a [ __ ] and we get back in and the custody side and looks at me and I'm covered in blood and it's it's what I've got my white shirts it's short sleeve all that it was a summer beside my shirt on he went what's happened to you and I went well we had a fight but it's all all right because we were told in training you're gonna get a smack just ignore it but this was a bit more this was a fight and uh he went no no no no no no way not ignoring that he said go down get a shower get back up here uh in five minutes so I'll leave this guy there I'll go and get a shower I want to come back this bloke's been battered to Pieces right he's had his arm broke he's had everything and then I get a book get thrown at me the evidence book copy that I'm not what I mean they've written evidence of what went on and it was different to what happened so your bosses have written the evidence yeah the team did yeah the team wrote the evidence yeah you copy that copy exactly word from work yeah now this is where I learn a lesson right so Tom goes forward this guy goes away um I'm not in any way saying I put lies in that book you you draw an inference from whatever you want you know but uh I'm in an all-night garage there weren't many about them but there was one or two and I'm buying a pint of milk because I'm I'm seeing a girl who lives nearby and this guy's just been released oh right with his mates and he's on one and he sees me and it's just me him and his mates in this garage and he pulls out a massive knife and he just shuts it straight in my throat like that and again what's going on what's going on with his mates he went to his old building went stabbing jerk him jerking and I'm sitting there and he looks at me you can see I'm scared and he went out gotta do it out of my son I went no he said listen I liked you I thought the police had changed he said I'm old school he said you thought like a gentleman and then you treat me like a gentleman you shook my anger gave me a cigarette and I told the truth and you lied I said look I had no choice I won't well I mean out of anything and he said I get that he said but I'm telling you now don't ever ever lie in your evidence I'm not saying I did I wear it but I learned a lesson that day you know but that's how it was yeah it was it was wild it was it was crazy um I moved up to the West End that was different yeah you couldn't do that but but in in them it would be the same in Birmingham same in Liverpool Glasgow that old school brutality you know we had to win the streets and we won them streets no matter what I mean I had one guy if you went to do a Warren when they go in the first thing we would do whatever whoever the governor of the house was they got hit by it he'd go up bang and that's how that's how he went we had a lot of ex-military guys you know we had tough guys boxers you know rugby players and all that you know um I mean I worked with for two years from the next special forces guy my word I mean it's like 10 men yeah you know he was uh boys oh man he was something else he was an out an outlet what was your what was your route through the old bill then you did a couple of couple of years on the streets you're learning your trade you're learning what's going on you guess you're learning there's actually people telling Porky pies in the old bill yeah yeah yeah and and was your next sort of what happened was I got in trouble very quickly so my first year was in a world of trouble right so I started going out for girls dad was inside for attempting murder of a policeman um and a family will link to criminality so that got me in trouble did the old Bill do your colleagues know that you're going out with yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah so that wasn't that kind of done you only five no it didn't it it didn't you know and they were warning me like what are you doing now uh the sergeant didn't like me for the staff and back then it was bullying yeah but I'm one of them people you can't really bully me because I found it funny yeah so whatever they did to me it made me laugh yeah because my stepdad was so brutal you know you know it it made me climb up trees uh you know as a kid to do tree work and with no harnesses and he'd throw stones at me and things like that and in the rain and stuff it just I found it funny yeah so they would this guy didn't want me in the place so he would just bully me and remember his name yeah yeah yeah yeah I can't I can't I won't disgose it because I'm going to tell you something I'll tell you a story that happened now um no no no he's long since he's gone long since gone nickname was piggy okay and uh whenever it'd go on the radio people used to squirrel them and he was ated and he was like uh um uh one of the coppers rung me up because I've moved and they said look just to let you know we went around Piggy's house the other day on a call he said we got called to his house his own son had chinned him he said this but because it this guy lived out on the outskirts and I might have been transferred to outskirts he couldn't believe it this cool gets out domestic and he said it's just it's it's picky right and his son addicted yeah and he said I had to tell you he said the first thing I thought got it got ring up tell John but this guy was absolutely horrible to me and I was in I was in I was when you say horrible was it like proper bullying every day just because he was higher than you yeah yeah because he could so he could he could tell you what to do yeah yeah and um they do things like your good accounting get your dinner and they're fighting the floor you know and and took drive along get out the car and walk and how did you work up to be getting into CID well I went to the West End okay all right so I've got belgravy now what had happened with Belgravia and I didn't realize it it was a newly built Nick and it's in us it's um at the back of like these old squares that they've got you know a little Garden area and there's all these Flats super expensive incredibly expensive yeah back then it was it still had some rough old area so still some bigger states there but on the whole there were some nice people and you couldn't behave there how you Behavior you couldn't and that took me a long time to a lot of complaints not one complaint in South East London and there was some bad behavior the West End the moment you look at someone the wrong way that's it yeah I mean I got a complaint for having my hands in my pockets I was thinking I had bite someone else how does that work yeah you know and um some bloke through a bull terrier at me over the front counter once coming in through a bull terrier and he started attacking me he landed on me and started biting me yeah and uh so I go I go to to the West End and there was a big operation it was it was called operation countrymen or or um anyway there was there was this revamping of the police because there were classed as inherently correct what roughly you were talking about 90 late 95 96 area right and what they've done is they've done a massive Roundup the home taxes said we can't have this police corruption so they started nicking um and bailing a lot of the suspected officers for corruption but they all come from What's called circs the Southeast Regional crime Squad yeah so the regional crime Squad The Sweeney to Flying squads especially the flying Squad out in rig approaching the East End right they've written books about these people and they chucked some water into belgrave your neck so the sea idea of Belgravia was full of these hardcore 70s style detectives and these are hardcore they were smoke in it yeah there was no smoking there they were overly smoking in the neck and everything and and these are these are tough guys you know these some of these were real hard men yeah I mean there was one guy uh they called him the ginger Giant and that he's in a book on corruption and he's a great big guy and he used to Chin villains he would he would go one-on-one with them he chinned it was a DI he chinned a DS once at an office Stone and he hit him so hard that the guy's tick band went into his eye and blinded him the bloke went to the floor and he went leave him there anyone picks him up that's trouble leave him there he's a dog leave him on the street this car was blinded you know nothing got you know the guy had to get painted off and so I ended up going to the West End and I was busy it was a crazy place and and I did really well now my supervising inspector so this piggy had sent a fax through saying this kid is a liability you don't know what you've taken on so I get called into my inspector who used to be an officer in the parachute regiment and he was he he got some sort of Citation for his work in Northern Ireland and he was a tough guy you know typical like mustache and a solid little lump and he said look this is land on my desk I don't know your son he said but I'm telling you what you work hard for me I look after you that goes in a bin you've got one month one month and and I respected him yeah and I worked like a dog for this guy so come in and he's got this letter and he rips it up old school it's lovely I love all that I'll talk it rips it up he said what are you doing in uniform he said I'm going to get you in the CID so a driving course had come up and he said right you're next because your figures are highest figures the rest figures are it's all based on how many people you Nick is that what it's based on yeah how many people you need so if you're nicking 40 people a week yeah you're going up the ranks yeah definitely and you know it's not the same now right I don't know how it works okay but back then you know you had to be what I call a thief Taker and I was busy you know yeah and there's others they used to call them gurkhas because they took no prisoners so they were lazy and they couldn't Nick themselves shaving was their one you know and there's a lot of people that head away but there was some a lot of young coppers there brilliant social life it's phenomenal fantastic and it was great fun uh but a CID opportunity come out they said don't take the driving course because you're stuck with uniform yeah getting a CID so I went into the CID into what it called a crime Squad and uh it was unbelievable it was old school this was proper old school you know these guys you know they honestly they've written books about these men you know and they were all in one house they were all undercover and it turned out that the flats at the back of the neck they had surveillance 24 hours every phone every phone was monitored the swipe card access the only Nick at the time to have swipe card access so they knew everyone would come in and come you know and these they were at it in this lot they were involved in drug dealing um all sorts of things well you see I do yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that was bloke set up being looked out for for so we're serving up yeah you're well on a big scale they were under investigation for it you know um there was people linked into armed robberies all sorts you know there was it wasn't so much there but there was um three detectives were going out on a weekend to to Austria and Switzerland and somewhere else and doing armed robberies and some of them were taken ex getting day release getting villains out on Day released and doing plugins with them wow and then of course the villain had a perfect Alibi you know well how could I was with the old built and there was serious criminality going on but these are tough guys you know but they had phenomenal trade craft as well you know they they knew how to investigate and they've lost that sadly they've lost that but the corruption side yeah it was chaos but you wouldn't see them so you get crimes allocated to you and you could run with about five or six crimes well give me give me an example of some crimes you could be allocated for uh well on a low level CID it would be robbery burglary you get domestic violence uh abh gbh and attempting most that start going on to more specious things uh drug Supply on a low alert serving up and then when it starts getting big so they would have things like the serious organized crime unit they'd have the Turkish unit you know they started dealing with big big villains and as my career went on up Paul signed it up doing a lot with them and then the national Quan Squad uh would get involved in sometimes intelligent Services would get involved um because we had a lot of Belgravia a lot of politicians and things like that so all of a sudden there'll be things that of improprietary would come along you know um so I remember one day we we nicked a bloke into public toilets at Victoria Station and he was a member of Parliament right and he was wanking off [ __ ] you know and I can remember him hold on hold on hold on an MP yeah was wanking off a [ __ ] in some public toilets Victoria Station yeah so we we booted the door in and the door smashed him straight in the nose so he's he's known as there's an old vagrant as well hold on hold on yeah an MP was wanking off a tram yeah what happened to that MP well what happened then was he getting sandbags in it and he starts crying and he starts what's his name I can't remember his name okay but it was something to do with energy Minister for energy or something like that I can't and I'm not pushing it away yeah yeah you know and and what is he said oh he said I'm really stressed in my life and I've got somebody's trying to and the blood as well we went well we all get stressed but we don't wank cramps off mate you know but what happened then um we want to do him for gross indecency yeah um and then we're told no you can't so it's a very low level sex crime right so it's a low level and and all of a sudden the paperwork went awry and went you need to get permission from the Department of Public prosecutions to prosecute him why well exactly so you only go to them when when it's to do with life licenses and murders and that the DPP come in to do it but this is the bottom end of the scale isn't that DPP Department of Public prosecution okay right so it's like an adjudicator for the CPS and they they make a decision should so so a custody Sergeant can say you are charged with murder yeah you're not right don't need to go to them right but when it gets very complex and organized then you'll need to take it to the DPP but then this is bottom level this is almost non-arestable offense I think it was a non-arrestible offense about them but we nicked him anyway um so when you say if you nicked him you said Nick the MP yeah does that go a press no no because the price happens you say you nick him what what does actually that mean it gets arrested brought in a station yeah to be interviewed and then bailed out for the decision to make to be made to prosecute so it gets interviewed he gets bailed out yeah and then he'll wait how long the paperwork will usually six weeks the paperwork goes off to the justice department and then they take it to the CPS and then you get a decision to charge but some things back then you could make a decision to charge straight away did he get charged no no all the paperwork went missing you know and then we're told and then uh of course we had dolphin Square on that ground you know so officers were Dragged In and told they weren't allowed to stop any car coming in and out dolphin Square you know and if there was they would face discipline so that went on so there was a little remain there dolphins dolphin square is the Parliamentary residence building where there was a lot of child abuse and it's been mentioned very much in the Press it's come out in a lot of government inquiries it's where the politicians are housed it's a very wealthy and you're saying whether politicians were housed there was child abuse child abuse child prostitution child abuse yeah child right there's a book come out by an MP called Simon denchuk and he writes about it there's been a lot of Scandal over it dolphin Square it's come out in the Press you've only got Google it and you'll see it so um those in and I will go oh yeah that place so so we're still talking mid-90s here or coming yeah yeah yeah yeah midnighters yeah yeah yeah yeah now there's a lot of strange stuff going on uh at that time around around that area and that but you know what happened was a lot of these um these coppers started getting arrested so one day three people got nicked uh they shut down the CID and the next day there's no one there you know the other the other time when you see it emptying out was if there was a masonic meeting there'll be no one in the office just be empty yeah so it'd be like a Wednesday or Thursday afternoon be no one there they'll be gone you know they're all at the Masons yeah they'll go you know and there'll be absolutely no one there at all you know um but yeah it was I liked it like the energy at that place it was it was great fun were you part of my sons no no what made you stay out of that well I was always skinned I mean and what what would they want with me anyway you know do not mean I mean it's um it's one of them things so no no no I'm not Mason uh but yeah it was a lot so how long were you in the CID for uh I well from then on from the rest of my service really and how many years was that uh about 23 years 23 years yeah and then what happened then um what stuff did you see in the CID that made you feel really uncomfortable uh the child abuse stuff the child abuse stuff what you mean corruption wise corruption or anything uh yeah the cover-up of child abuse cover up the child the cover-up of child abuse yeah yeah what in the old Bill uh not so much the old Bill doing it but they were covering up for people higher up I mean it was they were covering up for people higher up what like an MP or another copper or MP judges yeah MP and judges and things like that yeah people high up um how that worked was why why would why would a copper want to cover up for child abuse a child with an MP or well I'll tell you um what happened if you follow the timeline you'll it'll go into it um I I got left um so so this ex villains misses I end up with two kids of her she had two kids anyway um she had a terrible drug addiction and left me with all four children so I'm now a single parent a young man yeah in my in my 20s with four children wow you know two words where was she gone she [ __ ] up she just left her kids yeah how old were her kids when she the youngest was nine months [Music] it was nine nine seven uh or he was younger in that sort no sorry he was about seven five two and nine months bought my on my own I my family were close to lay out but massive massive Respect by the way yeah especially two not your own yeah yeah yeah and they're going into men they're my best friends now you know and I have a Kate against single parenting it'll become apparently we're going to put the older two in care they were going to put one of them because uh one of the boys had been exposed to horrendous domestic violence and uh they were going to put them in a secure unit and the social work said there's no way I'll cope with them and he would he would do things like urinate on other kids in the classroom and things like that it was off the scalp yeah and you know that boy has never had the police around my house one day wow we went on to work full time in hard work and never brought one bit of disgrace back to me so it can be done I'm trying to get my work out my head four kids by yourself as a dad I don't know if did you manage that and well I am still a copper yeah I think and I never ever held my hand out for any help never um time went by and I got older so some of the things were wrong because my children would be high left home alone yeah so but the age the ages of when the kid can be left is very gray so I would leave one of my boys I could trust him he was a good kid and he would basically look after him till I got home you know so I'll get up in the morning I might call it dinners for him and all that and when and one of them he would make sure they got to school and that's how it went I did have one woman the younger one would would take pick my younger one up so I paid her and the others would all get the bus together so I was I was of what I've done all through my life is fly by the seat of my pants there's been no belt braces and string with me I've never had money I've always been skinned and I used to always say I had more in common with the people I took through the custody door than the ones I was working with yeah you know they'd be going on holidays new cars I had nothing yeah you know I was doing tree surgery at the work weekends on my days off um she had four kids four kids okay yeah and and I had a mortgage and a house you know so what was I'm really intrigued about this point yeah yeah so what happened was I I ended up um joining the River Police right which is like the most sought after job in the world for any police officer what is a Christie number oh it's unbelievable it is just phenomenal it's it's a first police um uh unit ever in the world whopping police station's the oldest police station in the world 1798 I was built um it predates everything and it's ancient and they work four days on four days off so thinking well that's Andy and I could do my dive in there so I was thinking no that's brilliant so I went there but I had to then go back into a uniform posting which was which wasn't bad I suppose but I got bored quickly and they had a sergeant there right so at wapping police station they had special Branch for posted there right it's classed as a port and there was a lot of sneaky beaky stuff would go on you know uh and special ones were linking with intelligence services so I started seeing this other side of it so I'd seen the rawness of corruption that the other place now I started seeing how the intelligence Services work and all that very clever and I think you'll see that anyone who thinks I can outweek this system is a full you will if you there's a line and I've been warned I was contacted by an intelligence service once and it'll come into context later on and they said we really like what you do when I was campaigning but keep your toes on the line but you don't cross it on you cross that line we can't help you you know and there is a line and that's why you see people get taken down yeah okay they think they're bigger than the system they're not okay ain't no one it's too ancient it's too big for that you know and understand how they work these a lot back in from the military intelligence he's a very well trained intelligent guys and same with a lot of these detectives they're clever they've got a thing on their feet all the time they're very switched on the old building a lot of them I've got high IQs you know some of the the numbers in the uniform maybe not so but some of these no outwitting judges and barristers you know you know and and villains who have led a very cute switched on life you know so um I'm going to place and anyway there's there's a guy there who was um a sergeant from the West End right and he was one of the best guys I've ever worked with what's his name uh Chris his name was Chris what a good guy and I was teamed up with an ex um a special forces guy again I can't name him because he's he's still a very active guy and uh he was awesome this guy right so he said drag this in and said what are you two doing on the boats and he said look I've got a project running I want you in on it so he said I'm gonna have a word with your team you're working with me he said uh we're gonna be working with a pedophile unit at Scotland Yard so oh okay and he said to me I know your problems at home John he said you'll get on you'll actually get more time at home with me than you will from with that lot that's a lot brilliant he said series from now on uh and he said uh there's a problem we've got briefing uh come in Monday whenever briefings were going they've got members of the pedophile unit and and various intelligence units I didn't even think existed right so the travel agency has got an intelligence unit the post office has got an intelligence unit that the aviation Society the um the military obviously we know about them uh hospitals they've all got these intelligence incredible right and it was all to do with tracking down transient pedophiles I think oh brilliant you know he said look there's there's a lot of pedos are going missing because they brought out a sex offenders registry act and sex offenders had to sign on to say where they were so so are you saying they have a sex offender that gets nicked yeah when he comes out yeah he's got a register yeah that they know where he is all the time yeah yeah yeah and what's that he didn't have tags then did you know what did you have they just had to remember yeah they had an officer so if they were convicted cautions or served a sentence for sexual offending right schedule one sexual offending right uh they had to sign on a register and they had to be managed within the policing District where they resided so if they lived in London no London's different if they lived in Hertfordshire for example they had to tell Hertfordshire police but if they then moved to Hampshire they don't have to tell them what was the rules then seven o'clock at night you need to report in uh once once a month every 28 days they had to go and tell them is that it yeah once every 28 days you've got to check yeah yeah so but but they were then monitored so they could then risk assess these people so if these people started Living their schools or start working with schools or children like that what would happen then is that they could nail them down a bit more or they could recall them back to prison or whatever but they were going missing they didn't know where they were but turned out they're living on Canal boats so our job made me and this uh EX crazy guy uh we we went to work on them so we started patrolling the canals and the rivers looking for them they said to us we think there's two living on Canal boats the information coming in from the prison system again the prison system oh you know and our informants work people need to you know get a grip with this one you know um villains grass you know you're no use to the police he's no use to the police no you don't know nothing yeah they're all informants are criminals right uh criminals live a selfish life it's all about damn them the immediate so they get in they get in trouble what they're going to do they're going to do a bargain and you hold the keys to the door as a copper or whatever so you know we used to go in in the prisons and make deals with them you know and things like that so give me an example uh give me a song so if you'll get better give someone 10 years for something you're giving the names of other people well I've got that reduced down to three I'll give you an example so um right what you used to do get code ease right co-defendants so two people are up for importation heroin okay they're looking at 15 years right one ain't having it the other the other he wants to talk yeah like he makes it clear to you I'm gonna talk right so what you do years ago what they do is you'll get 15 years I'll get two years and it's like really yeah and they found that with the with the um Irish terrorism and of course that one would get two he gets he just get killed yeah yeah so what they do now is they say you're both gonna get 15 but you were put in for an appeal yeah he won't get his appeal you'll get yours so I always watch that appeal system okay not saying people to get pills or grasses because they're not but that's how we would work it or you get 15 you get 15 you're in K and I'll put you in cat C well was that too obvious again yeah it does happen I mean you can bargain with money right you can bargain with prison sentence you can bargain with immigration so people getting deported where you won't get deported you can bargain with anything and and one of the things is you take out you take out the uh opposition so a drug dealer you know so far I'll you you he carries on but we take out his opposition so it listens and that's how it works and it is and and then so what you do at the morning of the trial you go to the judge with a letter right secretly with a member of the um the government prosecution right and you you serve the judge a letter uh and it's called a text and the total read this letter and say right Mr B he's not having it but Mr A's having it yeah and information Mr a Scott is so beneficial that um he can be used in the future you must be of use in the future he's given us so much information which has resulted in conviction so someone must be convicted right and then when it comes to sentencing that you know you cleared a call and and then the Court's brought back into the so it's a trial within a trial this is uh what did I call it it comes uh what is it it's not IPP it's um oh there's a name for it it'll come to me in a minute it's a come to me it's it's um public protection PPI PPA okay PPI public protection immunity PPI and it's a secret trial you know and it goes on all the time and I'm telling you so villains if you're listening and you're scratching your head the police are not the all cni even now the police don't detect anything now yeah yeah eight percent of report crimes don't get detected so that's gone that's fine reported gets written off before it's even investigated why because the government wanted it that way you know they haven't got the resources they've definitely got the skills they are dragging in retired couples their fine Center yeah so any serious and organized criminal especially a foreign one you're laughing yeah you know when the government knows this they've been told this yeah they're shut down especially you rolled back there you said especially as a foreign criminal yeah you're laughing why yeah because you don't know the rules you know and they haven't got the resources to put into to tackling you and then you're going to have to the police won't know who you are yeah they haven't got a clue who you are you know when you're I just want to go back another point there defendant a defendant B defendant a wants to talk with you Defender beat keeping stumb because he's you both get 15 years yeah right but defendant a can he say to you I'm gonna get 15 but if I give you this information this information what you're going to give me no no it don't work like that and I'll tell you what how do I know you're telling me the truth is because because you're not in control the tail don't wake the dog what you want has got nothing to do with this this is now I've got the key to the door it's what I want yeah so there's no dictate in here you can't tell me what you want yeah and he'll say I'll give you the issue I thought well good go back to yourself see you later okay when you want to play ball you play by my rules and my rules alone and that's how it is bumped down the line so will you tell me if I say or someone says I'm I'm uh person a I'm going to Bubble Up m m m and I'm going to tell you where it's all coming in from how many years you're going to give me you're not going to tell me no so why am I going to give you so much information I'll give you a drip a bit of it it's up too well you want to play it but if they don't result in a conviction you get nothing you'll get nothing and that's it then you go back to yourself you're in no position to dictate you might have the information but we've got the means to make this work but you want the information from me yeah but but it doesn't matter there'll be enough because if I don't give you it I still get my 15. yeah there'll be another one coming okay tomorrow you know so you go back to yourself maybe a year later we can visit you again have you ever been have you ever been anywhere where you've gone around and got a a cocaine deal or a heroin deal and you've seen I don't know 10 kilos of cocaine and they'll add two kilos of it no no it they're not they're not that stupid you know it you know it's it's a lot more if you do that you're looking at getting nicked you know you are looking at getting Nick there's there's no it goes so so one of the places is where a guy would would be the property cupboard in the police station money would go missing from there yeah because everyone had access to it you know yeah um so yeah of course it goes on you know um if if you go in um and a lot of people would hide money in the freezer for example you know and places like that now if you had information there's money in the freezer and you go around and find it well whoever's first in and they know about it and then no money's found yeah do you know what I mean so that's how it'll go on so when people do it they're not stupid yeah stupidity causes you know someone from the police Federation said to me once I've got no problem with corruption I don't like stupidity yeah and and as a copy you're going to prison if if you're caught so these are clever people these are clever organized criminals some of these coppers you know and they would whine and dine with criminals and all sorts um prostitutes and everything you know they wanted that gangster lifestyle some of them they got dragged in by it did you ever feel like you got dragged in at any point no I I tell you why because there's nothing they add I Ever Wanted okay nothing because my phone I'll tell you I'll tell you one uh I'll tell you one thing that happened once I was um if you're seeing all these people with a load of dough and you were saying you're always skin yeah yeah yeah I I I'll skip the timeline have you ever yeah no no no no no no no and I'm going to tell you but I've been in that situation right and I'll tell you I'll tell you how that went about so where we left this I'm coming back to that now where we left this was the the canal sort of pedophile so let's welcome back to in a minute now I ended up working uh with with Turkish organized gangsters right and it nearly cost me my life uh there was a contract to kill me for forty thousand pound um hold on hold on you had a contract 40 Grand again yeah on my head yeah why because I was seizing so much heroin I caused a problem I actually caused a deficit in heroin because an amount I seized right from where from venues all sorts of places from from uh one was from a van that had like uh I think it was 300 kilos in I mean you're talking three million quids no more famous uh one was from a flat there was a million quid I took from a flat uh one was from a kebab shop um that was I think that was 17 kilos all in a week there was a huge amount I think it was something like 350 kilos when missing all from the same firm you know that we're bringing it in and I was clearing the heroin up and it was a problem it was a problem so I go to uh deal with a about to return prisoner in uh Central London Police Station and he's come with his solicitor and I'm just rebelling this guy um now he is heavily involved with big Turkish um heroin boys you know dangerous dangerous one of them was actually found with his head cut off these are serious so um I was I was a problem for them so he he turns around to me and he's goes in the room I've got to give him his bowel sheet and his solicit turned around and said look um I'm going out for cigarette he wants to talk to you I went well I leave then because you're not meant to be alone with them you know but no no no no he just wants to talk to you and I'm thinking he's going to give me information I think that's good I'll turn this guy around because the Turkish criminals are notoriously bad for giving them they give information they they will save their skin they will but they're dangerous the dangerous to Jamaicans you never really got much from them the Irish travelers gypsies forget it that ain't happening you know um but Turks man they're they're Crossing around brother their own cousin you know they were you know and it was but they were dangerous you you and they're very tricky as well you know you they would set you up so this guy his solicit goes and he sat down he's counting out a big wad of money and they knew my situation I'm very open about that and you get to know these people they get to know you and he says there's problem with your children John and look you around no money and always you're borrowing cigarettes from us and all this and he's counting now he's got four grand this is four and I went no I said no no no no no no man I don't trust them anyway and it's like I say there's nothing they have I want yeah they're nothing I don't look up to these people I looked up to my stepdad and he was a nutcase so I don't look up to date I've been like that all through my life you couldn't tempt me with anything that's why watching this guy let all Raven about Andrew Taylor looking thinking what what young man would want to be like that it's nothing it's base level yeah it's nonsense it ain't getting you anywhere in life you know love gets you somewhere that is temperance nonsense anyway so and he said there's more and he said uh because they were making 80 000 pounds a day so they figured out that if they keep me um they give me a day's worth of money right then I'll step away she said take that and then we're going to give you 80 000. we'll give that to you tomorrow no problem just leave us John please leave us alone I said no wait a minute no no no I said no I don't want it I went out in the city was brief you know about that he went well and his people his next copper and I went you got the wrong guy yeah and as he walks out he just said big mistake John big mistake so I then a few days later I'm a trial for again multi-million pound amounts of um heroin no I caught in East London so I'm at a Crown Court these guys get get weighed off for 15 a piece with a with a deportation order and these are serious Guys these are Kurdish gangsters and as you go out to court you you get the door from the courtroom and it goes into a sterile room and then a court to the outside so there's no you know and as I go out they rush me and they pin me up against them one of them gets his finger and he draws it across my throat so you're a dead man you're dead man so they had an undercover officer um again never underestimate these undercover guys you ain't never gonna sniff them out yeah it ain't happening you know what you think the undercover I'll be with England or top of that guy oh man are they they're training course part of it was devised by the SAS yeah the interrogation side of it yeah right they used to kidnap them off the street so let's a couple that were reply to become an undercover he'd get kidnapped off the street and get a phone in a van driven off and get kept in a container for three days that's hella used to run it it was tough yeah it's the hardest course it's psychologically it's boom boom these are these are these are tough um so there was an undercover officer um he he got involved with with the Turkish side of it and a coffee shop uh somewhere in the Turkish quarter which is like the Heron gay and green Lanes Hackney that way they found a picture of me on the wall and said this man's a snake he looks like us because of my skin but he's got blue eyes he's a snake they call me the blue-eyed snake and they said he makes out stupid he's not I said he he's a problem so they had a meeting and this guy was in a meeting and there was 40 Grand put up and and this fella got given the contract to take me out he later came forward and confessed you know but the information come back that Tom I just did man so you've got it around your neck what was going through your mind they frightened me right so I've had I've had three uh threats to my life um one was by a South East London gangster threat to come and shoot me and I didn't bother with that that didn't to be honest what happened with that he uh I got moved house um because of it you know and they said this guy dangerous you know he he will he will he will do it so he's threatened to blast me away um and uh what you've got older than my phone number my because mobiles had just come out and I I've got mobile anyway it it rings and it's him shouting at me you know I'm going to shoot you I'm gonna need something and I'm with my stepdad right and he's like what's all that I went to this place friendly and shoot me he went he went yeah he said tell him to go get a pen so this boat's threatening me this gangster you know villain for selfies I know I'm going to shoot you on Bros I said have you got a pen he went you are I went yeah pen he went yeah I could get one I went can you get a bit of paper I mean step they're telling me what to say and he comes back he's got a pen and paper he's going to got it you know he stopped his rent he's got pen and paper he said give me your address really give me your address I said look write down my address that's where I'm going to be he went you [ __ ] I said no no it's my address where I'm going to be my Step Brothers telling me yeah and so he writes it down and then and then my stepdad said to him got the phone and went listen boy come around here I'm gonna punch your head I'm waiting for you and that was it put the phone down I never heard from the bloke ever again you know where the police will go put in panic alarms everything and he just said no well I'll punch his head if he comes out well you had the more fear of the Turkish turkey is definitely 100 just because is it just because you just don't know and you know that they could just do it and they could be off skis in Turkey you watch him again well I'm going to tell you something now right the Turkish scared me yeah the Jamaicans and I'm not dissing any of this you know and all that there was a very the Jamaican organized comes very disorganized it was disorganized crime one and organized crime because it seemed to be everyone living for the moment you know and they they never really seem to have anything you know uh and and again the low-level criminals who were still living on housing Estates that their parents lived on I think well how have you made it you ain't made nothing just misery the Turks were different they were very very organized you know and there was a lot of wealth and opulence you know one guy said look look at these cafes yeah what built them you know the British greasy spoons or or you're going to have these Turkish ones all marble tiled he said where'd you think that money come from and what you find is that that food and money also got together the restaurants were looking at was there's money Bank Drug Money Bank rolls all of that so the Turks were a problem right um a very real problem I I got jumped uh the biggest this was a biggest drug trial in the country at the time in Leeds Crown Court the guy's got life and uh they were I got jumped outside the court by by four Kurdish guys to smash me at pieces they they managed to get me down but luckily there was um a off-duty copper um up there he He piled in and I didn't know I just walked him back to the station to come back to London after a day's trial and bang it was on me what's that feeling like you're going to trial you're in court with the people you want to Nick they're clocking you you're clocking them you're walking out the call knowing that they've probably got 20 mokes or clocked you before you're gonna yeah but have a piece here surely surely you're thinking ultimately am I in the wrong job here why am I trying to Nick all these people because it's going to come on top one day yeah well it'll come on top of them because we've got a bigger gang than them you know and there's a line but the Turkish were going to do it like you know that did worry me you know especially when I got jumped it brought me home a bit I thinking that these are for me you say warrior you're going back to four kids as well yeah so you're going back to four kids you don't think you'll put the job you're in and all the nicking you're doing is putting them under yeah yeah as well yeah but I just they might not have known but you don't know who's gonna knock on your door I'll tell you the one that worried me more than that was when I I got information that there could be a government hit on me right and this is when I started whistleblowing this is when my life got very very dangerous that's when I got really really frightened uh now when if I can go back hold on hold on you said the government put it on you yeah no this information come through you know that if I cross that line that's it it's finished well did they did they think that you were a nuisance in there yeah yeah and and there was information come through from the home office and the cabinet minister so it was a meeting held and I was present in this meeting in Parliament we was in a room next to Theresa May uh there was the home secretaries uh uh no I think Theresa May was Home Secretary then whoever whoever was in this actually what year are we talking uh about 2015-16 something like that um uh we was in this meeting and there was a cabinet minister there who was high up for defense and he turned around and said how do you not taken my case he said there's no way John Mitchell would be alive today and stood up and said that I said to him what you want about when you know exactly what I'm on about you know because of what was involved um and and that case I'll come to that people did die in a case the witnesses died Witnesses two witnesses died in Acacia two young girls that were witnesses to child prostitution died in that case now if what what happened with the the thing we went looking for these pedophiles on the boats we were told there's two there's two living on canals and there's a loophole I won't go into it bore people I do a whole talk on yeah on this loot part but it's a loophole that I managed to get shut down so I so I was twice in my career I got I got the law changed um and I did that and I was the only serving officer that had an exhibit in what they called the black Museum there's a Police Museum a crime I was the only serving officer that had an exhibit in the black Museum so a couple of things I did now so me and this other guy went looking for these pedos in one month we found 1990 around so again you found 90 90. yeah we was expected to find two we found 90. how did you're looking for two pillows how did you find the other 88 because we were just going from boat to boat to boat to boat and then we were recruiting informants at the same time and then we found out and we'll get just getting information to all pedos pretty much know each other so I paid oh no another pedo another one yeah yeah and it really connected so it started I can't get my Advan this bit here if I was looking for pedos and I was old bill I would just have pure anger yeah meeting and Peter knowing what you've done I've seen your record how did you deal with well what was good was that they they put me under the pupillage of a very experienced um detective that uh been working for the pedophile unit since its Inception you know he knew that pedophile is mine inside out on top of that I I would get sent away to work with a Criminal profiler right so I got to know the profile so I was privileged I was one of the few officers that learned that side of it now I work uh pretty much um part times at well with one of the top profilers for the FBI on Child Murders now that's what you know some of the Outreach stuff I do now so you've got to know how to the mine works and what was said was right what what what do you want you want to catch a pedophile or do you not want to catch a pedophile right you catch one pedophile he'll know a lot right yeah you kick the granny out of him what's he gonna we're gonna get nothing you're gonna get in trouble yeah right there there are different mindset that criminality um on the whole is a reserve of the lower and the working classes and it comes down to two forms of criminality dishonest and violent crime you know it idiots smashing each other up and Nick and stuff and on the whole it's on the Estates it goes on you know again I'm not rubbishing any one but that's where it is the most the police they Dash around on the same housing Estates year in year out and it'll be five families on that state calls grief for everyone the majority of people work hard and do nice things and it's ruined by idiots and that's that that's why we need a police force right sex crime is different the the sexual offending against children pedophiles there's a there's a whole mindset that the on the whole they're intelligent that they're very covert in how they work and and what is their lever right so and it's the only time you'll find criminality transgressing all social Stratus all religions all racial backgrounds right there so I had someone said once well you don't get many Jewish sex offenders well that's a lie you'll get as many Jewish sex offenders as you will Buddhist as you will Muslim as you will Catholics you know or Protestants whatever right upper class sex offenders you'll get as many of them on the lower class it tends to be the low in the working classes that get nicked but then when you get onto the upper and the ruling classes it becomes different because it's a lever right so people you can coerce someone and you can bully them right and the police thought all the time an intelligence services do it all the time right emotional blackmail whatever years ago they could do it with people if someone was homosexual right we know your gay we know you meet men in the toilets now you play the game otherwise we're telling the world so you played a game right but now that's not a problem you can't coerce anyone with homosexual and if you did you're going to prison for it as a homophobic crime uh same as drug taking we know you sniff cocaine was so what years ago yeah so what now before that if someone was having an affair you could blackmail them yeah right but everyone chugs around now it's not a problem it's you know the morals have slid one way so it's not an issue what is still taboo is having sex with a child it's still very taboo now if you've got information some of those that was with a child you've got them in your pocket you have got them hook line and sinker and we see this all the time with these scandals coming out you know so what happened was that we were we were really going great guns we were phenomenal we were on fire and it was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger so one day and this is when it's not conspiracy a theory anyway conspiracy reality to conspire it's for two or more people right the only people who can't conspire husband and wife by law a husband cannot conspire with a wife apart from that you want to conspire for a criminal cause two or more people for criminal calls right so um it was getting bigger so some of the the offenders were living on these boats but it was it was moving more upriver to the Thames into Richmond into these nice start areas and then we were getting bigger information right so you're going up the river yep so what started to happen names started cropping up that that were linked to the establishment so we had one guy that was very high up in advice in Social Services on how to he actually wrote a book I can't remember this guy's name he wrote a book on how Social Services protocol Works involving children in care and he's a pedophile he was into someone high up in the educational Authority all right pedophile and then what you found is then the victims that they all came from the care system so these are children that had been abused at home 80 of child abuse goes on in the home okay forget the grooming gangs all that children are put into care because there's a problem at home right they get put into a place of safety and then back then they'll get put into institutions where it was organized abuse and again I do a two-hour talk on this at why why it happens you know and what you find is kids are the ultimate commodity you can use cocaine once money Runs Out kids you can use them all the time you know and these people want sex with children they want it and it it gave me respect for once I started respecting the heroin addict and the the crackhead toothless prostitute and then I come up with this revolutionary idea but why don't we work together then no one would touch them but I did so I started going on the streets and getting the urinating said I'll get your money I'll get you angle to do that worked for me when I recite Recruitment and some informants because they'd all come from the Care Homes wow so I started getting information yeah I was I was in this kid's time I was in this kid's time I was in this because I'm I was in there they did this they pimped me out and then you started realizing how it went and working so this has all come from the Care Homes all from Care Homes the biggest procurer of damaged people everywhere right so listen they're the guy called mayor Giuliano right in in New York because New York had a terrible crack problem in the 80s it was it was like the murder capital the Western World bloody bloody blah why was that you know where it had a lot of problems so like he said the Broken Window Theory so if you get crime in an area and it's getting graffiti well that's gonna cause gangster meet up then the drug dealer in the robberies and it comes an epicenter of [ __ ] clean their areas up cut the grass trim that window's broken fix it crime will go okay Goods Goods on the most base of level but why don't you pick the scab and realize why is that heroin addict there and I started doing that I mean I'm in no way saying that I I'm Reinventing a will but I never minded getting my hands dirty my two older boys were going into a kid's home right I thought that could have been my boys yeah that could have been my boys they would have been made to do sex acts on dirty men and everything else they'll be on heroin and then what the Copper's picking up for the rest of their lives you know dysfunctional kids themselves set offending amongst people who are victims is a lot higher than those that aren't victims and I'm not saying in any way that victims go into abuse I don't but a greater percentage do let's keep it factual you know so but what happened was that it wasn't just a lower level people we started getting names higher up and and this this guy come up to me and he said I need to talk to a very very well respected detective at Scotland Yard in in the pedophile unit you've been on tell you this fella talk to me John and I said uh he said listen he said I want to tell you something John you you you're good you're good you're a good little thief Taker and you're very well known and he said uh any other line of policing you get promoted don't you for for working out you'll get a good job good position or whatever you know he said not in this game the moment you get good at this game you [ __ ] yourself yes well so the moment you get good at from fighting pedophiles you're going to [ __ ] yourself yeah yeah why yeah and he said listen John there's Wheels within Wheels right you can't get good in this game you said twice we were shut down on big big investigations in which one very very senior cabinet minister um in the UK very very high up was involved with young boys a household name again I can't go there with it household name he was involved with young boys very well-known actors and we discuss them Preamble you know we're involved and of course it becomes a politically influential so you can Auto pull it look at look at Ted Heath the former prime minister he was up for investigation 34 cases of male rape now imagine if he was prime minister now and he liked little boys well what do you think Putin could do Putin's already said the UK and the American government is full of pedophiles he's already said it is he wrong well the investigation I've come across he's partly right because not all of them are pedophiles but there are pedophiles it has been covered up and who better to cover it up you know you cover up for your mates and and you do look what was said earlier but God might fill that out well if it happens on a market cause something happens in a macrocosm you know if you're a builder and another Builder comes you don't know you're going to give it to your mate you do know it that's how life works this is serious stuff you know and then so he said be careful John because your name is now get mentioned in the corridors be careful you're getting too big well the next day I was dragged in by a senior officer on the unit I was on John was shutting down the operation well we're shutting it down and I'd categorizing him off every single canal boat I was getting information coming from all over the place from all over the world kids being moved Mountain boats and everything else and it has come out officially in a government inquiry that it was going on so you know and anytime I said when you shut down and I was like I was really bemused I said but why it was so good what we were doing it was brilliant and he said um because uh he said anyway I'm not gonna lie to you I said I've got too much respect Joe he said I was going to lie to you he first said it was going to be the fact that they couldn't afford me as a succumbent you need it back you know which is a nonsense and he knew a wire right but he said I owe this to you it's come from so high up John he said you can't argue it he said listen I've been told any job you want you're going to get I'll put in for any job you want and you'll get it if you don't want to stay here I said I can't stay here so what I did the the vice unit had come out there weren't detectives on the vice unit uh in central London dealing with prostitution gambling and everything you know it's again they've made films about these units I think that film bank robbery goes on about the vice unit in the 60s and it it was probably one of the best detective jobs you can get you know um in the UK because not many have got advice units so and this this is our you know we were mentioning before our masonry works and whatever so I said well I want to go on this unit so you get you you make an application and then you get told right you've got a read up on on this topic so you've got to know because crime there's all different aspects of all right so on the street you just deal with criminal damage assault um and and violence and and theft right and you've got to know the law inside out when you specialize you start knowing about conspiracies and all sorts of other things so I needed to know about Vice crime um I'd never come across it before I didn't understand it and there's a whole library to read up on so I've got read up on all this stuff I've got kids at home you know my you know it's hard work for me um so the the guy one of the guys high up in the unit I was on he said Dad let's have a look at the application see if I can help who's interviewing you I went this guy went no worries he's in the laundry room so he brings him up and says uh no good lad gonna sponsor him he's going for this job he wouldn't use applications here we need a reading list so what it means is I want all the questions and all the answers for this job right Gold Dust you know it's like having having the arrow level um and he went yeah pen and paper they're the questions we're going to ask him write down all the questions I was going to get asked and all the answers he asked one so this this this this and some of them are never gone he needs to answer them all and in this way and he'll get the job and and a word we put in as well anyway yeah two so I owe you a drink it was Mason to Mason and I went for your interview you know less alcoholic you know I probably would have got it maybe without sending you know but that's how it went this is the way the world Works how the world works yeah look after you yeah yeah so I go on to this job and I start working on the street with prostitutes right so I'm working on a street with a prostitutes and again they'd all come from the Care Homes yeah so they were going out nicking these girls getting them a 50 Quid fine and we're back on the streets what I did the same was like saying well what was going on so I started working them you know the working girls I started working them yeah and the information I was getting was unbelievable when they were saying that this guy turns up he wants a young girl he keeps asking for a young girl you know he's in this car and of course we could then do a job on this fellow you know and it was getting bomb it was really rolling and then one one night was that exciting for you yeah it's fantastic it was was it yeah yeah yeah you know and then you're fighting with Pence yeah you know uh and I can remember uh my colleague had stopped a girl and I pimped him one night though she is off the gate the wig on standard the pimp prostitute wasn't like you see in the films it was a working relationship you know they they were symbiotic they worked off each other you know do you remember what sort of sums a pimp was taking from a prostitute it would just be money to buy crack they live for crack they live heroin you know these are living like dogs you know and and one one day this my guys went to did this girl and anyway this Shadow comes out of you know the the slums of like King's cross you know and the middle of night and it was it was in an old Victorian straight there's not something out of a dickensian thing and he he sort of comes out and I see this glint and he's got a knife on him thinking oh my God so I'll run over there and he's pulled it on me so I punched him on the nose right so he's he's gone down and we start fighting right me and him and um and what what's happened is as I pulled him down his head's Hit the Floor my head's my ribs have broke got broke on his head yeah so he said it's got smashed on the floor my ribs have got broke she's his nose got done again and then and uh enough he's gone enough you know and a nice got Dash and and I've got him handcuffed I said let's have a minute I said you want a cigarette and he was from New York he was from Brooklyn this guy you know and he said you're gonna give me a cigarette so Jay look put the Cuffs under your arm like that put him up here and I'll roll your cigarettes to hold him a cigarette he said I want to tell you something he said I went to stab you yeah I know you did and he said you fought me like a man and he said I'm from Brooklyn he said I years ago he said I I did this I was pimping girls in in New York and he said that the NYPD Vice team came and I did the same and they shot me and they only got seven years in Rikers Island prison right plus I got shot and he said you fight me like a man and you give me a cigarette he said you're a classic son well he shook my hand you know he said whatever you say I've done I've done I said well it is attempting murder but look you breached raspo let's just run with that and he said sure I said yeah I said don't go putting a blade on people but back then you didn't you threw it down the drain now arm cops would turn up it's all crazy but back then they just got kicked in the nuts when was the when was the point when you said I need to do I need to be a whistleblower yeah well this is what happened so one night I'm out and there's a little girl on the street would you say little girl what a young girl 14 year old girl right but she's under age she's on her own right I know this girl was very young little for her age and she was on her own so she looked like she was nine so she's on the street so thinking she's got to come in but as a place of safety I'm not Nikki now she's she's you know a little kid so nickton and we say a lot I'm coming back with this gun I went oh no we know where we know her so it's come out an idea tell her to f off I was like why I went she's got scabies right um and she'll infect the car and like shoe off the street just tell her to tell me to tell her to go back out the street anyone I was talking to her was rape you know she's got all contagious diseases appetite C HIV and everything and the girls are narrowing I said no come on you know and that sort of thing what are we here for this is wrong so then what happened was a young girl would come forward because I started really looking into this and there was information I found that one of the prostitutes was pimping out young girls and they just weren't targeting her um one of the girls have come forward for no no three times right and made allegations to police that she was being pimped out since she was 13 years old and she's in a kid's home so I got permission to go and visit her in a kitchen so I went to see her and she was she was all right little scumbag you know she was she was horrible to be honest but that's not my final opinion of it that was my initial opinion and unfortunately this little girl got killed God Rest herself um and a lot what I did was in the memory of this poor little girl you know just when I realized um what was going on she said John it's not just me there's so many others where so this this one prostrate called foxy was was what she was doing she was she was in with a Jamaican drug dealer and um they were going around selling drugs she was prostitute herself but she was getting in with all the other prostitutes and if their children she was trying to groom them and look after their children you know which a lot of them were young girls but she was running was a child prostitution racket right she she was running it yeah yeah yeah yeah with her Jamaican henchman you know so um and again this is where I want to change people's perception what pedophile is this isn't a middle class middle aged white guy with milk bottom glasses who lives with mum yeah it was a bit odd these were Jamaican guys you know in their 30s these were albanians in their 18s these were police officers these were judges these were you know people for the BBC you know we need to understand that this thing doesn't know the rules it doesn't know the boundaries you know there's no demographic hindrance to these people they will go and do whatever they want and they're all connected again it's changing so you so you were like the pioneer of this it seems like you were unraveling all of this yeah and you're unraveling it so much from the pedophiles who we were at before to now these the young prostitutes well being groomed well you never reinvent a will but there's a reason this doesn't get touched and I'm going to come to that there's a reason this don't get what doesn't get touched investigation into child prostitution why doesn't it get tired well fine we'll find out in a sec you know there's a reason so when you've got the girls and because who they turned to they've got no one they've literally got no one they're grass in gun toting Jamaican gangsters and everyone else there's a lot at stake here so they would be taken to crack houses and they'll be passed around a dirty stinking I mean I don't know if anyone here has been I spent a lot of my career in crack houses concept of humanity you know and you know just just wret your places you know they don't even use a toilet some of them and these girls will be passed around they did these dealers and punters in the morning or wherever I may day whenever they get out and then they'll be taken in the evening to Posh restaurants which would have after hours shut down with Posh Arab people and then uh we start getting information about a judge at Central London court that was involved then we've got information about a senior police officer that was involved then we've got information about someone high up in the BBC music department that was involved and and there's the same music department yeah yep who was that I can't can't go there with that but you know um and then it went on so this was all this information was coming back after you just speaking to the prostitute yeah yeah the young girls yeah all coming about the same information everything yeah yeah and of course we was then getting these kids taken and putting them in Secure units looking after them there's a lot of Aftercare goes on here you know of course they were going missing sometimes we'd have to go on it was all Street work yeah we're tall through the streets and then we find out the boys were being used and there was a part of London called the meat rack around Piccadilly where boys were being pimped out and what found out that the vice Union had known about it for years and of course what was the scenario gave a minute ago we did catch a girl and I told she's got scabies game whatever it just couldn't be asked but there was another reason because there were people high up having sex with these children and we've seen this come out in all these government inquiries lately you know politicians involved and everything else and it and it then you get the military intelligence service get involved so when when you start talking about this the newspaper could get D notices served on them right and and you think like the old guest house that came out the kids were being taken to this guest house in southeast London in Barnes and politicians were using it and having sex with them you know um and because they can be influenced they can be blackmailed and all of it was videoed and then there's a thing called a d notice that gets served on on you know um media agencies right and not to talk about it but people got Dino I was just abandoned no Dino this is a defense notice the police don't use Dino it says the intelligence services use denotices it was brought out during the first world war loose lip sync ships to stop people talking about matters involved in war and National Security so you were seeing all this firsthand and then you're also noticing that nothing was getting done about it no and then and then what happened then so it was it was just growing and the girl I was working with started having a breakdown and it was getting heavy right so I said right I'm going to start documenting this officially I'm going to put this in a report now we need help yeah so I I then get I think send a thing out to all London boroughs has anyone got a problem so uh Croydon come forward to Mr John we've got a massive problem here we get these girls but we've been to your Vice unit so many times to tell them to organize strategy meetings to address it like tell us to f off yeah and I was hearing the same from all all over the place right and then I heard from about one little boy that was being pimped out he was 11 years old he was on the last stages of full-blown AIDS and he was in a kitten he was still being pimped out and no one was stopping it no when we're stopping it and it was breaking me I was thinking no so I did a short um document now I had a friend uh that was he had the IQ of a genius right um he was an undercover officer and he was probably the cleverest man I've ever met in my life he went on to become an author and all sorts he's a phenomenal guys I said to him I need to write a report and I'll give me information you write it can you write for me let me put it in the best English I think he even wrote with a quill you know it's so nice and it was perfect when your videos like well this is poetry so I'll put this report together and I submitted it and I submitted it through the compute system and it gets deleted think it must have been deleted so and I realized that someone in the intelligence unit is deleting it right so what I did was I wait till this guy went home pull it on again because when the civilian staff come in the morning it got in the system so it got in the system and got a log number right and I managed to print it off with the log number later on they deleted it with with the log number you couldn't get rid of it it was there you know so this report goes on so give it a day or whatever um the next thing I get a call because by now we're working out of a secret little office in central London so I get a couple to come back to to the main headquarters and to see this soon officer anyway so I'll go back there I'm cutting it short a lot there's a lot more to it but then this report's there and he sits there this now bear in mind this guy is now one of the most senior officers and you know again there's a court order I can't go there I did mention him in in a hearing but there was a restriction put on it because I have taken this further you see some anyway uh he sits there and he went what have you done now he'd like me this guy you know I wasn't like LED you know and he said what the [ __ ] are you done he said John you can't put this out he said this will destroy his past present and future we are funked if this gets out so if this got out and home office got to know about this is problem this is a big problem this is a huge failing in in in policing past present future he said you've got to understand you don't know what you're dealing with you don't know how deep this goes and at the time I didn't I was to find out right so he said I'm telling you now you'll be thrown to the Wolves John ain't no one going to help you he said I can't help you and he said you know he said if you mention a word of this you're going to lose your home your children and your job your children yeah bear in mind that's what you said you must shut the [ __ ] up John and he was pleading with me he was he was actually saying you know it's like it's not saying that someone don't go into a traveler's site and I'll throw it all out you know like please you don't what you're doing mate you know and it was like that he was literally saying you you know and I was I was to find out and he said you can't say anything about this and he said how do you think you've been treated I said this is appalling this is I couldn't compute it I thought I was sorry I thought I was brought in to be to be praised no no no no no no no he said that and he said listen if you mention anything you put in a complaint he said this is what happens it goes through the grievance procedure it goes off so so and it comes back to me on my desk here and he said from there do you know what I do with it I said don't only submit higher up he went yeah well I'll submit into that there and put it to the bin it goes in that bin there and everything more and um he said it ain't going anywhere he said I won't betray rank he said and what you understand you've got no idea what you're dealing with all right so I'll go away from now and I think so I end up moving to a child protection unit and I start doing the same and I have to take an undertaking I'm not allowed to look into child prostitution again so I'll go to another child protection unit in North London and within five days I find 50 kids that have been pimped out what happens then is that the case I was on the paperwork's all done we go on a risk foxy um and and our cohorts we've got about 30 kids on the indictment it gets reduced down to one kid one kid there's three the other two weren't they were very low level Quantum one kid for for pimping out that little kid bless her was found dead right she killed all right dumped on the street a corpse like a dead Fox on the street you know um the other two kids uh the youngest was nine um the youngest one she was like to be found dead as well she died later on a little bit later and it was live ruined you know lives ruined um the the girl the main witness who died her grandparents they campaigned for years and years for justice for this poor little soul it went nowhere so I think I can't the moment I found out she died something inside me broke this girl was so brave in standing up you know and I'm thinking who am I and I'd watch like I said I watched this from Serpico when he stood up on Frank cyberco and stood up against um the mafia you know um so I said you know earlier on I've watched this film with this guy Frank serpco NYPD detective he spoke out against corruption and his his whole world collapsed and uh Al Pacino went on to um to play him and I later on end up showing a stage with Frank sapco he heard in my plight anyway so um I thought no I'm I'm standing up but my my mental health started to deterior as well because I couldn't cope with it you know it was destroying me you know and uh so I was drinking a lot and all sorts I was getting very angry with the system and I was getting very Reckless so I actually wanted to be sacked so I turned up work and I'd smoke a cigarette in the office and and I'd uh I'll be drunk and things like that and I wouldn't do any work I mean one day I just put my feet on the table senior officer coming I just looked at him and he was like stand up and saying I just wouldn't move and I was waiting just waiting for him to push me so I could have it out and in the end that that that did occur um one inspector thought he could push me too far and I went for him you know uh you know luckily I didn't do anything that would have you know I picked his computer I wanted to throw it out the window and I went for him and he you see the look on his face you know his blood had drained and I've gone you know so so I I then made an allegation of corruption against the police in the cover-up so that was the bit that you said right I've had enough yeah when the little girl died yeah she made an allegation to who I I there was a special unit have you ever seen this film a line of duty this program around the duty that anti-corruption command and again a load of nonsense because the only corruption command man they never called corruption none of them it's a load of nonsense don't believe that you know the the the premise is the truth but the actual you know because I was to find out I thought these guys were going to take this on so I I wanted to to meet with a very senior woman detective to report it and they gave me a uniform uh that he went no no I said Mike [ __ ] off I ain't talking to you yeah right I want and I'm telling you now this is what I want and you better give it me luckily I got it so this woman reached out she said I'm DCI so and so she said uh come and see me so I'll go and see her again at a covert building and on the way down I get I get intercepted by a senior officer that was on a vice unit that's part of conspiracy he thinking what's he doing here and he's trying to talk me out of here and I just he went out the way right so how he knew I never know and he's oh anyway so I I [ __ ] him off and I went in with this woman and she said look John I don't understand she said and what I said to her was later to come a narrative in that line of duty documentary right she said why do you want to see a woman police I've seen a police detective I said because you can't roll your trouser leg up right meaning you ain't you're animation women like Masons yeah and she she sat there went like that and then she laughed she said oh listen so I told her and she was like oh my God she said John we're going to treat you as a vulnerable and intimidated witness he said you're going to be part of protection we're going to do all this for you I said oh thanks I think thank God right so it went off to be investigated he said I'm going to put you under protection yeah from the overall bill yeah yeah but what happened then so give me an example are they going to put you under protection from the people you work with because you're you're telling the truth yeah yeah so no one could contact me there was all things put in place so what they did was the inquiry then they said we've got it's because it's so big it's got to be moved so it went on to a national inquiry then the paperwork went missing right and then what happened was the corruption law came for me right so I was warned with the loss of your home your children and your job so the next thing I get paper served on me for gross misconduct saying that I'd um unlawfully been looking at intelligence I shouldn't have looked at that what we've done and then I was like you need to be interviewed and all that so I'm then put on suspension um I then go sick I think you know this is they're coming for me now someone said and what happened is Jimmy Savile died right so Jimmy Savile died and for the first time it started coming out yeah you know that actually what was incredulous isn't it's the truth so all of a sudden there's this guy that everyone thought was a saint he's actually raping children and dead bodies and all sorts and it wasn't just him there was many many more this but it was a prolific pedophile that was sanctioned at royalty level you know and even on the international political Forum this guy was sanctioned you know Netanyahu backed him up and all this sort of stuff and then copper started coming forward and then government inquiry started so Ted Heath the former prime minister was now accused of pedophilia you know um Leon Britton Home Secretary uh was accused of it and and I can back up because I'd heard his name mentioned many times Home Secretary that was involved in young boys allegedly okay um and boom boom and then copper started coming forward so there was there was two police officers come forward and I thought ah unbelievable so a politician was backing me up he he then was an MP that was to do with police and crime as a cabinet minister he was a right honorable um he's now a sir so he backs me up so he's a brave man Brave man the next thing he stands up for me in Parliament and says look you know because I went to him and said oh no I'm coming under attack here he then gets removed from his job he got removed yep yep he got stripped of his of his uh position and Theresa May told him you'd go nowhere near this waiter right so it's getting serious right so everyone's trying to shove it under the car yeah yeah so then I get contacted by there's a woman whistleblow you know Maggie Oliver so she Maggie Oliver is actually coming on the podcast yeah so lovely lady so she um I link him with Maggie and she said look they've done the same to me uh they're going to go through your your your internet history your computer um Intel search history and that's how they'll get you yeah because that's how they got me yeah so which is what they did the next thing I got is date protection violations so they went back so then I I started getting arrested for different things so they went back and one of them was theft and this just shows off I was running a tree surgery business so I on my night Duty I printed out because I didn't have a computer I know money so I printed out an invoice um from their printer right and they found this audit Trader I printed his paper so they said that I'd uh that's a theft of a bit of paper A4 sheet paper there was um information those the the guy who wrote the report for me again they they said the report you know I said this this very clever academic individual wrote this report they told me and said it they would expect uh they wouldn't even expect a standard you know of a school child it was that badly written that's what they said I mean Dickens couldn't have written a better you know sort of denigrating me on it so that's the need to denigrate me he he was an undercover officer for many years and he ended up with chronic depression a lot a lot of them do who didn't even know who he was you know and he went to live abroad and but his Legend he's Alter Ego for for infiltration was he lived on the streets as a [ __ ] and he was covered in tattoos this guy he walked about the little dog and he lived on the street a few summons straight he actually would smell a piss yeah he would piss himself and talk to himself and he clever this guy he was one of the best undercover Lads he had so I I sent he sent me an email to my work email and I said to him are you still living as a [ __ ] uh anyone who'd meet for beer and he went yeah so I said well let's meet up I said uh you you bring the tenant super and I'll bring the methadone we'll have a cocktail party right that was it so the next thing I get arrested for uh conspiracy to supply class A drugs opiates heroin right out of that so so tell me we've got you now 15 years you'll get for now um anyway there was another basically the old Bill were out to destroy you yep yep completely destroy you so this gets no it doesn't get into the public domain yeah yeah um uh what year was this 2014 2014. so and then what happened was I went sick so I went before the commissioner question dick and I sat before and said look this is what's happening and she said she was she looked truly shocked um and she tried to cover anything up yeah yeah she did she did she then later denied everyone in a meeting with me um a pool and she lied you know um a you know and um she then said look we'll pay you you know this is an injury on duty so she said she'll pay me the next thing they withdrew my money so I had no money they weren't paying me right so I'm looking at um nine cases going before a court I'm now not getting paid I've got no income my home with children and my job right so I can't pay my mortgage so the next thing the bank come round right I got my bank account shut so there was another whistleblower this guy is phenomenal his name is Lenny Harper and he exposed a kids home in hope to look around in Jersey where children actually killed and murdered and this guy found bones of the kids and they when it went for analysis they said it was coconut shell so he did the same to him so he says you've got to come and see me so I travel up to see him in Scotland and we have a lovely meeting he's done they're going to do you they're going to take everything you've got and they'll go for your kids and I'm not waiting because this all was politics your job is to shut up and you've not shut up you've done what I've done and I did what Maggie did as well you know he said we all did the same thing and he said look that they're coming and they'll come out for you he said you'll find that the tentacles of this will go right to the heart of the establishment which is what the independent government inquiry and which both Maggie and myself went on to give evidence at um last year we both give evidence at that same time it showed that that was going on there's a Monumental failing and it has been for a long time and this is all about money it's all about money um and so I I now I'm looking at losing everything and in amongst all of this so the bank come round and I knocked the bank sometimes but bless them the woman sat down and I told her what happened and she was in a kid's time she said don't let no one touching you she said so I was working on building sites for 80 quid a day laboring and block laying I've been working in an office for years you know and I'm now a middle-aged man working for 80 notes a day you know do you know what I'm saying yeah yeah yeah with a couple of good lads you know uh Trevor and Wayne you know uh and uh I tell you this is funny this is uh this is a low point it does get lower and it gets a bit darker this is a very low point in my life you know where all my friends are there getting on with their lives getting extensions built now so I can't even put food on the table you know and because your four kids know what was going on uh to a degree they could see me going downhill and I remember my family did tell them they were to find out uh in a big way so one day I'm working on a private job in doing an extension and whatnot and I've got a 15 ton of rubble to lift on my shoulder in a bucket when in yellow buckets and I'm running it out and I'm working with this this local Wayne and we're both running out all day long eight hours we always work nine hours and it was sleeting and it was in the winter and it was in the town center and I managed I was so knackered and I kept up with the boys you know and they like me because I could lay blocks and bricks and I was quite good at it so I sort of got a bit of respect there so I'm emptying this last bucket and I'm shattered and it's a town center and as I did it Wayne goes behind me grabs all of my trousers and my pants pulls them down slaps me on the ass my little Winkle waving in a breeze in the Town Center where people go by and when you ain't in the [ __ ] old Bill Nelson it was humbling you know it was a humbling experience and and then what happened in amongst all of this one of my children was was a very very good athlete well two of my boys were um phenomenal after one was a very good gymnast and one was a very very good rugby player and one of them he he got injured in a rugby match and he snapped his neck and his spinal column was was snapped 95 percent um he was rushed to hospital um he remained there for many many months he was in a coma and my life really slit you know um and I'm losing everything it's all going your home your job your children now I'm not saying that this soon also had anything to do with the accident but what happened next was so I get a call one day at the hospital so please can you come up there and it was uh the best spinal injuries Hospital in the country in Cambridge and it's miles away from my home and I've literally got a thimble full of diesel in my my little car you know so I I get up there on fumes and I've got no I don't need I've got no money got nothing I was eating the biscuits out there tea Club in the the family room for the ICU you know and there were three Consultants there and they stood they dragged me and they said that Mr weather really sorry we've lost your son um he died at this time he's been he was we we tried for 10 minutes there was seven and a half minutes totally off of recorded death you know with no life Extinction I said however he's on 100 eye support because we've got a brain algorithm back there was the brain which indicates life but he has been we would estimate not short 10 minutes without oxygen his injuries are so bad anyway that he is paralysis basically from the eyes downwards he will have severe brain damage and um his life expectancy it's shocking you know it's not good they said we're going to give you five days on on full life support if you you can argue the case you can go for our legal team we'll put you in touch with someone and you can and I said no no you've done enough you know so I'm now at the lowest end how old was your boy 24 I think you know in his prime he was about to join a British Army um he was due to going to the horse guards so things were good for the for the legend so I I get three I go there I'm there for three days so I I go into into the chapel the multiplayer from my praying and I'm praying I'm praying and then I ring up a girl I work with who was friends with a commissioner the police you know and I said look they've got to leave me alone because every week they're arresting me for something else you know I've got no money I've got no income uh you know I'm losing everything uh and sometimes you have to you know in order to come back and I said look tell them to come up because if they come near me I'm going to kill him that someone will die they'll die yeah if I lose my boy if when when that machine's turned off don't I said I'm an animal you know and I did blame them when I did blame them and I you know because that that period of time before his death I wasn't in a good place and he never saw me in a good place and none of my children did you know it was awful for them you know and I blame the police and rightly so and I found out who my friends were I there was a total abandonment by two people so therefore I've got no respect for a lot of these anymore I haven't because you know I was strip bear and I was left wanting there were two good people that stood by me their names uh I can't name one because he's still working but probably is his retired poorly was that one I can't bring him into it um and there was an ex-criminal a bloke from the street the bravest man he's a so I started linking him with survivors of child abuse at this time because I started going into Parliament and getting involved with the cover-ups because it was all coming out was this was this putting fuel in your fire to go you know what you ain't getting you're knocking me yeah well this was to come so I spent three days and on the third day I got angry with God and I shouting there was so with the hospitals you get there was a lot of Indonesian Uh Sears and Bangladeshi doctors so you you get one print of Buddha and a multi-foot from one doing his other thing and it was me with Jesus you know and I shouting I started shouting and I said how can you expect me to go out there and look after other people's kids and I started cussing everyone who left a child I cursed them I said these parents who can't be bothered to look after their own children his parents who raped their own children's and I was going mad I was going screaming and I said and they're going to care and then they these perverts raped them and you know and you want me to help them and a spat on the floor I said iron out with none of them I said you can't give me my son I ain't helping them I said it ain't happening God it ain't happening and I go back and I was at the point of total exhaustion you know and I go back and I sit with my son and I've got two days left with this machine and you know what he moved his feet I was like what I said do it getting opened his eyes I said move your feet again he moved it and I'm like his spine he's not paralyzed from the eyes and he's got tubes no one should ever ever see their child like that there was tubes and pipes and it reminds me of the um picture of Leah Betts the girl that died from the Ecstasy thing a dad post it was like that it was awful and um and I said how am I handling grab my hand and I said son I love you and he he tried to say I love you Dad thinking he saw There's Hope he was later to walk out the hospital he's gone on to live he's disabled he's in a wheelchair but he can walk he can talk his bones fully Compass mentors you know went down his Reckless recovery but that was my lowest step where it was to get a bit lower so because I told the girl from work what happened I drive home and my son's alive play who's got done well amen um so I I go home and when I get home I drove past my brother always having a little look and there's a car there and I know I'll bill I know I'll bill it was an unmarked car so I drive around I go around the back and I go through my back tall and my son was fixing his car mode where I was fixing his car outside and these two cops come on detectives as long as the sergeant monitor Constable they're from the local plot and they're talking to him and he's like he's loyal he's like I don't know who you're on about what are you on about good lad good luck taught him well yeah yeah good boy and then I thought I can't leave him for this and I went you want me when are you John I went you know I'm John say come in I said uh you're under arrest for child abandonment I went you what because I've been in hospital for three days my son was dying and they knew that my older boy was 27 then my younger was about 15. they said I'd left him home alone the age of 15. and they arrested me and so that's the level they'll go to yeah and bear in mind your home your job I'm looking I'm going to prison right at the very least my job's gone that's finished right um my home I can't pay the mortgage taking my home because I can't pay it it's only so long you know and 80 quid a day ain't gonna pay that mortgage and now they're about to take my kid for for what you know now would you have changed anything the way you've done it no no you wouldn't have left the job no no um I I think I I think I'm the only police whistleblower whistling was working yeah and I think Maggie did I don't think they only did I did yeah I blew while I was working very dangerous no because I know it's lit by God you know I was meant to do it the way it was but I fought back and I thought back like a line the line started to Roar after that and I've been hurt you see there was nothing more they could do with me nothing more I weren't frightened of them anymore and I said okay so I wrote a letter to to the commissioner of police and I said I what I want you to do question do um I'll give you full permission to come in my house anytime you want no need to get a warrant I'm giving you permission you come into my house anytime you want you take whatever you want if you want me at a station I'll be there right any device electronic storage device you can have it you take it any time a day come in my house and take what you want the door is open at the back is open nothing's going to stop you and I fully admit to everything you say but I'm going to court and the world will hear what I have to say and I wrote that letter to it sent it to her and then what happened was every single case was thrown out the CPS threw every single case out um the new commissioner of police um I can't remember his name now um the metropolitan's got he got he got the file my file and he said this boy's suffered enough yeah pay him off pension him he's retiring and that day he retired me um I managed to pay my mortgage off um literally every penny I've got went on the mortgage I literally had a couple of pennies left and I'm starting a new life so what I started doing was thinking what am I going to do and and I realized someone who ran a kiss charity said look people like you so what I started doing was campaigning for victims and survivors of abuse I went out with my iPhone and I started interviewing victims and survivors of abuse and this whole Mad World opened up in front of me and I started getting a lot of ex-criminals coming to me yeah so I well because this is probably the first time they can actually speak up speak yeah because you know what you're talking about yep essentially rather than some Geezer turning around in a suit saying you're sexually abused and younger and then gets passed away again yep as they can talk to you and actually open up and start campaigning so I started with powerful John with a very serious ex-criminal um a South East London bad boy not many people know this guy but all the villains are known a guy called Billy Maloney what a guy what a lion of a man went on to become my best friend me and him became like brothers we started campaigning all over the place in fact I went all over the world they're enough with it I then started doing stuff with a man called Chris lambriano and then I started getting criminals coming forward and saying I like what you're doing and then and it went from there this whole world New World opened up I wouldn't I wouldn't know you could do it on robbery and get 10. yeah or you could be serving up and get 20 but if you're paid a fight you might get three years yeah yeah how's that work well if you get caught at all and then what they say that kid is a liar now in 2003 they changed the law and they bought anything called bad character he said I think with similar fact evidence or an armed robber a robber for example could could have done 300 robberies right he's in court for a robbery they're not allowed to tell the jury what he's done right not allowed to tell them right it's only after conviction or is or acquittal so you've just acquitted a man who's actually a prolific robber you know or you've committed the right man because he's done loads anyway they changed the law and he brought in this this thing where you know uh Bad characters so you can actually say it now it doesn't even have to be a conviction it could be a suspicion it could be anything in their history it could be a work record a School record a military record anything you can say it providing it's relevant and people go yeah brilliant that's a step forward but it isn't and I said this is a cover-up tool because do you know why because when someone at a point in their life they feel the strength and the fortitude to come forward and speak out usually in their middle age they have that Epiphany this is wrong look at my life you know they realize that all the problems they've had in their life has come down to this childhood sexual abuse and they say no more right so they report their abuser usually these pedophiles live forever yeah they're going on about health things become a pedophile you live forever you know and um and they speak out so the pedophile gets brought in and then what about the victim yeah right and what they're going to say is the victim we're going to tell the you know members of the jury this is a man and what's a victim doing heroin yeah why is he doing heroin because of this how's he funding heroin shoplifting ah he's a Thief what is thieving dishonesty so they'll say this is a man of dishonesty so the moment you say that to a jury at the beginning of a trial what does the word dishonesty conjure up in your mind liar liar liar and they will reiterate that time and time and time again so straight away the victim's called a liar and then a lot of them are outside of the system you know you talk to Anthony you'll tell them if the police come he wants to jump out the window and run yeah you know because it's still in them you know but it isn't their fault it's what the system has done to them you know so it doesn't help and a kid in care is money so from Cradle to a grave the sister makes money out of them yeah they will get two thousand pound per week per child in the care room yeah me and you could go and buy an old building down down in the town somewhere five bedroom we can put a kid in each room we'll put an office which the social services will provide and they'll probably give you money to do it and then we could be making 10 grand a week 40K a month at them kids do we have to look after them no we don't yeah they can be picked up picked up by The Pimps and all that and off they go and you ain't going to seat our prostitution you don't see it you don't hear it and no one talks about it and am I out our system whenever you get all these criminals and all that you you break them down it all comes from abuse yeah it all does it's so simple they don't fund it they don't invest in it and anyone who does something about it like you're fine when you talk to us whistle Brothers bang we're crushed and and even there there was a limit to how far I went so I've had on two occasions the intelligence Services tell me John back back off back yeah back off you know and I have to because I'll die yeah and that's been reiterated twice by a cabinet minister you know you die and I don't want to die yeah you know I don't think it's their choice but I think it's God's choice but you've got to be clever you know John this has been absolutely fascinating yeah I'm literally Blown Away by all of this and I'm really glad you're bringing this out and talking on podcasts and talking on YouTube to actually let everyone know about this I knew nothing about this yeah I think the average man on the street wouldn't know much about it and then you kind of Veer it and then it sort of like thrown under the ground again but but but where can where can people find you John yeah well I did have a website but I couldn't be bothered to pay the um the fee last year so it's gone down now but I've started up this campaign so you you just Google me j-o-n went to wdgr um there there used to be Foundation gmail.com Gmail you can email me that way I on the way down here I was speaking to a counselor that got in touch with me about someone they've got and who's suffering terms they get you on Instagram yeah LinkedIn uh I'm on Instagram I'm on Facebook um you know what YouTube I'm on there I've just started this little campaign over over the Christmas period it's called peace ad and it's an acronym for pants swimming against depression so what I've been doing is I've been going in lakes and in rivers almost every single day over Christmas and the coldest day of the year in the coldest water venues around the UK and I've been swimming in my Underpants been filmed and it's all to do with promoting the unparalleled benefits of cold water therapy and really ultimately to prevent male suicide and female suicide but there is the male suicide you know to promote that you know and put it Forward because there's too many deaths there's too much you know people that are there at the end and they don't know a way forward and what you're saying is Cold Water Swimming makes you feel good makes your mind feel good instantly for the rest of the day it saves lives you know John I've really really enjoyed this conversation and I really thank you for coming down here and and telling this I think you're a very special person for what you've done and very brave it's a pleasure yeah it's absolute pleasure anything that's a platform to get it out there you know and you don't give up don't ever give up you know please there's always a way it sounds like you've been to Hell and back mate yeah yeah you you've got the lowest or low and look where you are now campaigning for it I think it's wonderful yeah it's fantastic mate yeah you can't beat the system but you know just don't give up join and God bless you're a superstar mate God bless you yeah good man thank you mate thanks for coming down good man [Music]

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 600,102

Keywords: Dodge Woodall, Jon Wedger, Eventful Lives Podcast, BBC News, police, Met police, corruption, dodge woodall podcast, rob moore, james smith, diary of a ceo, steven bartlett, shaun attwood, ture gordie, ross kemp, channel 4 documentary, Documentaries, crime drama, true crime

Id: jKBaLh_bMko

Length: 112min 38sec (6758 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 20 2023