Head of Army Becomes Cocaine Kingpin: Rich Jones

trap of drugs is it's not not other people keeping it you keep it and you keep yourself in yourself by your own dream [Music] you go from the arm the arm starts seeing the world was changing when I went to I mean 88 the Rave scene was really just bubbling up at that stage I was given a pill yeah that changed my life completely and I think I got sucked into it one of the guys who got sort the pills out so I was then going from doing a thousand miles up to maybe four or five thousand pills a week so I then started to look at expanding the business at the time there was an arrest went off which meant I lost four kilos of cocaine which is equivalent 80 grand and that was on tick that was on tick yeah and he said oh we've got a way you can bring it you can pay it off and so do you want to start bringing it over I don't like working with these people yeah these are erratic these people are dangerous it was River time totally fear about something about something yeah but I can't go into it [Music] Rich welcome to the show mate thank you daughters are going yeah really good really good uh very much looking forward to this one so I'm very intrigued about this one um so let's go on a journey but let's roll all the way back where did you grow up and how did you go from the Army to becoming the drug kingpin yeah so I grew up in Bristol as you can tell by the accent lovely accent bling bling um grew up place called Hembree which is standard Council estate the irony is I grew up in a police house my dad was in the police force so I was born into a um a structured lifestyle I feel like my dad serving the police mum was an hairdresser and uh I've got a younger brother not much younger a little bit younger than me about 18 months you know two years younger I would say standard upbringing until about 14 when my parents split died on the police force very difficult lifestyle lots of problems being brought home again you also played rugby so if he wasn't coming home pissed off from rugby becoming pissed off from the police force back in the sevens my 90s it was a brutal upbringing not for me but the the lifestyle that he had um so my parents divorced it when I was 14. and I'm not going to start pointing fingers because there's no one to blame for that it's just the way that it goes but that had a kind of detriment effect on my progression if you like my academic Direction didn't really stand a chance because I just wasn't interested Lost full interest in school lost interest what I was doing when you say lost interest were you at school not giving not giving a [ __ ] really are you not learning would sport your way out was you earning I don't think either do you know what I don't think there was anything which appealed to me in school there was there wasn't any subject matter which I thought I like that that sounds good okay I'll go for that no there was nothing there and back in the 80s very limited what he could do yeah if you're a guy you're going to go and work on a site if you're going to work in a kitchen or be a mum yeah that was how it was so for me I just was not interested in anything they had to offer so really for me I guess being wired up like my dad I thought well there's gonna be something like that maybe the police maybe something on those lines and that's kind of on a in the back of my mindful that's maybe where I'll go aim for the police force but my dad did his best to sort of say I don't want you joining the police because look what it's done to me look at my life look at where it's gone with me I've got no you know I've got a failed marriage the police force probably isn't a good idea so at the time really it was what else is there and um I guess coming forward two or three years I've been becoming quite problematic in my upbringing I was a I wasn't a horrible kid but I was just a standard teenager sort of testing me what I was testing the wasting well what we're gonna do in my life random crappy jobs nothing special nothing of any substance and in the end I thought I think the force is the way forward a new Step mum wasn't getting on with her again not her fault I was becoming a little [ __ ] so why how how is a 17 year old kid with no real chance going to get on with anyone coming into his life so I opted to go for the Army at the age of back in the 17 and I applied for the tank regiment and I think the following year May 1988 I joined basic training okay and basic training took you where did you go on tour yeah so basic training started off in catterick in North Yorkshire yeah which it was an interesting experience I wasn't prepared I thought that's what basic training was for but that's it they get you trained but I didn't realize you had to do some level of Fitness to be in there so it was a culture shock I mean again again back in the 80s this was really non-pc yeah it was okay to give you a good slap and a good punch in a few digs it's okay to give you non-pc nicknames which I can't even go into because you'll probably get you shut down within a few days so it was hard going but it did give you a degree of resilience give me some examples of non-pc names well my nickname I when I did have had lots of dark hair so my nickname was [ __ ] or [ __ ] and I'll just take it well okay that's fine I'll go with that and that that's a light-hearted one so that road with me through my whole Army Career yeah I'm still called that now by the guys I've on Facebook group said hi speak how are you doing I've been called that for years 30 years later can I see that anymore I've got any hair no longer there yeah yeah so it was things like the nicknames you you'd be called in did you did you find that it gave you discipline being in the Army yeah it gave me something I didn't have yeah it gave me structure yeah which I needed because without that structure I was just I was off yeah it's like it rains you in a little bit and they use the phrase controlled aggression so if you have got issues with language I don't have issue with anger but if you are inclined to be an angry person it teaches you to control that out to channel it and use it productively so the Army is very good at taking all of your wasted energy that you would use on silliness and channeling it into something productive and then you apply it correctly and that's what the Army does they're very good at doing that how long were you in the Army for in total seven and a half years seven and a half and tell me your journey from the moment you got into seven and a half years later so joining the Army was a bumpy ride the first year or so it was always going to be quite tricky basic training is hard enough as it is and they keep saying to wait to get your unit that's when it really starts and you think why is this and at the time in the 80s Cold War was going British Army on the run you had the Warsaw Pact the USSR the Russians are coming all that sort of stuff what year are we talking here 88 88 September 18th okay so I was deployed to Germany in 88 after doing my basic training trade training to become a tank Gunner yeah deploy that to my unit in Germany three RTR third world tank regiment why why has been sent out to Germany what's going on there that's where we were that's where we had the old East and West Germany so you'd have the the the the imminent threat like now look at this thing in Ukraine people are [ __ ] themselves about the nukes coming we had that back in 80s all the time right okay we got used to it that's why I'm not remotely bothered by now if that happens yeah back then we lived with it that's what I've only grew up in that so what were you doing in Germany then getting pissed yeah okay okay it was 90 drinking yeah 10 training okay so and that's what it was because you're you're literally on standby you're waiting for this attack this world war three which never happened yeah so a lot of it is training a lot of it is drinking and it is a drinking culture yeah and I'll give an example of the prices and we're going back to let's say about 30. walking to Matthew bar for the first time this one before the euro came out it's Deutsche marks yeah the Nafi bar I love it bear you go in there you get you get your money out ready so much that's one Deutsche Mark 30p yeah okay 30 Pence for a pint and was that relative though then oh were you like God this is still really cheap okay back then in service Street you'd be paying maybe about a quid 50 yeah a pound maybe for a drink okay so you're still looking at you know 20 so you were training in the days getting low-ups at night with the boys was there was it just a male orientated yeah violence yeah fights sport Garrison area so if I describe the average day or the average week so you do actually have a working week Monday to Friday lunchtime so it's poets stay standard stuff piss off early tomorrow so that's that's the practice that yeah so you go through your parade in the morning you turn up you get inspected Loosely because we're trying because we're a bag of [ __ ] we're messy we're covered in Greece and Jesus we're not we can't shine that much yeah down to the tank Park where the tanks are parked you would then go in the called a troop cage sit with the lads have a brew chill out be given a few tasks maybe do some Fitness maybe do some maintenance on the Tank Service a site service of weapons you might go on the ranges now and again you might go and practice on the gas chamber doing CS gas you'd have these sort of various bits you might go up go on the gas chamber yeah yeah regularly so we the gas chain part of the train in the back in the 80s and still is now as NBC nuclear biological and chemical warfare so you would train for this imminent maybe attack from the Russians or and then part of that attack could come in the form of biological or chemical so you get used to when respirators gas masks or your suits so these every single base would have a gas chamber it'd be like a shed or a garage you go in there you go with your kit on a lot of a couple of little capsules which are CS gas and you wait till the room is one of those accurate smoke and you take your respirator off and see how you get on with it and that's about it proper old school yeah yeah take your restaurant off you go boys they rank a number and then wait until you breathe it in until you cough up and and you get used to CS guys it stings it burns it yeah so that would be something you do maybe once a year once every six months and how long are you in Germany for the whole duration so for the seven half years it was it was Germany I mean we because we were mechanized because we were a tank regimen we couldn't just bounce around because a lot of Kit to move so we did Northern Ireland as dismounted troops so infantry in 1990 went to RMR which is RMR Center in Bristol doesn't it RMR who are RR so we go to there within six months in in the Bandit country which I really enjoyed because we're actually doing a job so you you got flown out from Germany to Northern Ireland yeah what was that feeling been a novel I've had people on the podcast who spent a lot of time in Loveland and it was like the British soldiers were hated yeah yeah you it's broken into the Protestant and Catholic areas so you be patroller we're in a little tiny village called Middleton on the border between Monahans between the South and the North and I'm not going to get into politics of it but that's how we branded it so I'm nothing so some people say what's one Island yeah that's down to their political views we were in the north on the border and you would have a say a predominantly Maybe the Catholic area where you walk into that as a British soldier you're going to get stones for another you're going to get spat out you're going to get potential rights you're hated you're targeted that's accepted because you're doing a job in your hostile environment you go into a Protestant area I love you and you literally have a map marked while we're going from this street to that street this is this is gonna I'm like some imagine I've got my got my guns walking down this street here this is Protestant we're okay yeah walking to a Catholic area got murals on the walls of like the IRA and everything right a little bit and you start scanning your eyes so literally within 100 meters you could be from a friendly into a hostile area simple as that how do you deal with something like that you're walking down the street you've got a machine gun on you you're with your pals you're a tight bunch and people French stones or spitting at you how do you react to something like that you have to sort of this three resilience comes in you can't really respond yeah someone's chucking rocks at you you have to take some sort form of cover yeah but if people are given you variable which is regular they're giving it a [ __ ] example you [ __ ] Brit bastard yeah that's what we used to get old so you're [ __ ] brick Pastor [ __ ] off back your own country no okay I'm fair enough from kids wives families yeah everything you know you get the threats you get the violence you just look at it you think oh it's just noise it's just noise until it's anything more than noise you treat his noise and that's what it is you just keep on walking we were kitted up I mean don't go we've got um flat jackets on we've got cop first bullet Professor arm to the teeth if it kicks off we're gonna be okay yeah but you can't get around shooting civilians just stop really good for PR as it so if someone did get shot as a civilian was a bit of time when someone a civilian did get shot because I'd imagine the whole country would have erupted yeah no we never it would never engage we've got Rules of Engagement yeah okay we literally we've got a card which you've got to recite so someone's a Potential Threat we've got to memorize this process which I don't remember what it is okay it'd be some of those stop or I'll shoot stop rush you give them a warning yeah if they're running away you can't shoot them in the back if they're putting the weapon at you you you you challenge them and if they don't drop it down you take them out right you've got to shoot to kill not shoot to main you can't put one in the leg as a morning shot you've got to take right okay we didn't have to do that which is fortunate and and then what back to Germany but Germany so 1991 back to Germany in January so we did the summer through 1990 early night well now what happened at the back end of 1990 was the first Gulf War hmm over in Iraq with the old stub missiles the liberation of Kuwait so we found at the time when we were watching this on TV we're in the armor City at the time watching it on TV we think this is it this is this is going to be us we're going to go to war now so we're starting to chomping it a bit I can't wait this is this is cool we're going to go to do with Don Ireland on foot as infantry not per it'll do yeah our tanks have been shipped out to the to Iraq to the gulf ready for us but we're going to get back to Germany in January two weeks leave just a bit of decompression he's been an operational tourist despite what's going on in the world we're still going to talk a little bit leave two weeks leave back to Germany right get down to bovington fly back to bovington and lower to retrain on the tanks we had a year off without even pulling the trigger on the on the on the main Armament on the tank so back to low worth refresh yourself get your competency back on the wagon again and then back over to Germany be shipped out to the golf this is going to be great we're going we're going to finally do a job which we're trained to do I get in my tank and blow the lid off some other tanks that's what we wanted to do so we got into the literally like yeah just just peel the top off yeah so we got back to Germany to be told that we weren't needed it was all over it's done the air raid was successful it's all been a liberal Q8 has been liberated you're not needed well you're a [ __ ] devastated because the one thing when I joined the forces to go into tank Roger is you would never expect a chance to actually go and use your skills as a tank Gunner yeah in a real theater of war and it might sound a bit why would you want that but you don't join up for that but when an opportunity comes up and present presents itself you grab it yeah you think this is it I'm going to get out there so did you find that the whole time you're in there the whole Germany thing you did seven half years you were dying to go out to war war it didn't happen did you how many years was it in when you were like you know what I've done my time I need to find something else I need to do something else when was that so starting to come about right about 94. so when the what year was that for year six that was year six yeah so what happened is in 89 the Berlin Wall came down yeah the old East West dissolved it became unified so the threat of what used to be the Warsaw Pact it diminished it reduced so therefore if there was no longer a threat part of the agreement was that that we would reduce the size of NATO or Armed Forces over in Germany which we did which meant disbanding regiments getting rid no longer needed and I'm arguing what was left so we went from four tank road to runs which is one two three and four thanks to two so that's one thing so park that for a minute so we've now got a new judgment in 92 that's fine operational duties in Ireland great loved it missed out on the gulf [ __ ] that was a bummer and three come up we're going to get towards the tour of the um because I was thinking of getting out there so we're going to go to the UN next year do you fancy I thought I'm up for that Cyprus six months on the piss that's gonna be great so not not just not just seven years on the piss in German it's six months in Cyprus even better so it sounds like a proper Lads yeah and Limassol for six months I I got some stories about that which I'll go into um so we deployed to Cyprus in November 93 yeah there are boats a bit of a sticker with dates you'll get used to this yeah yeah so we've got got to Cyprus and it was like desert combats the same ones that we should have been wearing in the golf the old light colors as opposed to temperate which is a lot of green and Browns and blacks this is temperate lightweight it was hot we were in Nicosia airport which is the old abandoned airport and they could see so we're patrolling our job was to patrol the buffer zone that's on there okay Patrol the buffers in between the Turkish Cyprus and the Greek cypriots yeah basically like it's like a being a [ __ ] dinner lady in a playground so can I stop for instance stop arguing stop fighting it's achieving nothing but the rotor that we had was three days on guard Duty which was basically standing on the gate let people know three days on patrol which is three days Patrol that I'm done with the roof down on the soft top Pajero or a Shogun they're three days on the last so it was a good six months yeah it was a really good six month now at the time I had lots of dark hair yeah and it was quite it was growing quite well I was growing out I was growing it long I don't know why I just did and when I was in Limassol we got so used to go into the same bars Squad isn't known for telling a few little porcupines down again just a little bit of [ __ ] just to entertain ourselves music to see if we can get laid Yeah but more so to see we get free beer or both but if it was a win-win isn't it yeah yeah so I was always on my three-day leave and I was down on my own because the lads are just some of the guys I was on in the team with were married they wouldn't really want to go down we had troop Flats in limassource meant there was free accommodation we just rock up turn up and have three days on the piss so I was sat in this bar in limousine disguise and I was getting a really well of one of the guys that worked out it's called Paris he's a local Greek and I just thought called Paris as a local Greek yeah it's actually fun it was pariscover I was okay but yeah Paris yeah I know how that works um so I was telling them just chatting away and for some reason I just thought I'm gonna start lying I'm gonna start bullshitting I just want some I'm running that money I need some free drinks yeah and they saw up they said about me my background and being in the forces of that and they said oh what's what's your back Minnesota so I used to I was born in Cyprus they'll really worry and I said yeah yeah back in the 70s said my dad was based over as a British soldier in the in the UMP which is the um in in The Sovereign barracks and she's over here and then when the war broke out and because the Turkish invaded Cyprus in the mid-70s I was born in 69. I said I was a young child at the time I said my dad was married to a local separate woman in Farmer gusta which is a whole city which has been abandoned because it's full of mines and it was part of what one of historically former ghost is a massive City in Cyprus which no one goes in because it's too dangerous to go into it's part of the buffer zone I said yeah we lived in farm Augusta and then we my the war came off and I forget this right I said my mom and dad had to split because my dad had to leave the country quickly and he took me with him and I've never seen my mum since and she's from Cyprus and I'm spinning this yarn I think I don't know what I'm going to achieve by this next thing you know the drinks are coming they're first oh so suddenly got Paris over on China Paris so you've half separate said yeah yeah I've said but I don't know about I don't know my mum's name or anything what have I done next thing you know he's invite me to stay at his house with his family and they're putting up give me food and breakfast and everything else and I started feeling really guilty because I was getting three drinks in this bar I was promoting the bar outside doing the old Flyers yeah come on buy one get one free yeah so I was doing this for like every night I was down there and I think it's starting to feel a little bit guilty and they knew I was with the UN and we were chatting to Paris and his parents and they said oh they said we wish we used to live in the North before the Turkish invaded I said okay they said can you get over there I saw the part of my job is I can go north south or in the middle that's there's no restriction it's like okay just wondered if you'd get a chance could you could you find our old village for us and I have a sense of loyalty and Duty I thought you know I've been a right [ __ ] lying to you I said I really need to make an effort on this one and me somebody had put me in charge of my troop or my my stick if you like and we're gonna Patrol by three or four days later on so prior to that said look give me the address give me the the map coordinates tell me the name of the village draw a diagram of where your house was it's pre-mobile phones anything no sat navs it's just down to the old classic map so just give me some ideas I'll try and find it for you so you can be this crudely draw map and the name of the town and two for it is on patrol so I still think I said mate we're gonna [ __ ] off everybody North we're going to go and find an address so we looked on a map it wasn't too far it's about an hour into the northern half which we're not supposed to do but we we could we get away with it so off we went on this jolly and we went to be patrolling the buffer zone keeping the Greek Cyprus apart before that [ __ ] let's go find this address so we get into northern half and it's like a lot of it unless you're on the coast of the northern half of Cyprus it's quite militarized there's not a lot going on a lot of it is abandoned so looking on their map the map I've got their job right okay I found this but the problem with guys all the names on the streets here are in Turkish and all the stuff on the map is in cypriot or possibly English so I had to go and buy another map a Turkish version of it compare the two look at the names for writing it's that way so off we went to this little village totally abandoned I mean you're talking there's nothing there it's like it's been deserted for what at the time 20 years maybe just over 20 years look at this crudely drawn sort of thing right okay I think that might be the ice there nothing there's like a few bits in the garden photographs taken another 35 mil took a few pictures took a few photographs at a local Village Hall little bits around the village and forgot about it went back did me other six days rotations nine days I went back down to Limassol there you go give them a 35 mil said I don't know let me know so I'll add me two days on the piss went back to see him after the third day and they come back and the mum ran out and give me a massive hug he said you found our house and I found it exactly as they'd left it they literally packed the bags and ran in 1974 or 75 then they literally did even down to the stuff left in the garden was was there no one living there and so I found the village I find that the school that they went to and make me feel less guilty about being a Twilight lion so then the founders their friends at all can you go over and get a photograph of our house and I had to go on these little excursions over the Northern Africa photographs of these different villages in towns because I felt kind of bad that I'd lie to about me being half separate but it was hell of a jolly yeah yeah it was quite good okay but rewarding and then and then what then so what was your movements after that so Cyprus we came back to when did you when did you leave the Army 95 95 when you left the Army what was your next steps well the aim was to go into close protection yeah so at the time my dad left the police force he was working his CP work anyway he was doing a lot of protection a lot of surveillance and I thought I thought I'm getting out of that enough I met a girl that I want to make it work I said distance relationships just weren't working out for me it's a lot I've had enough that I've been in it he said he said all right but you know think carefully what you're going to do what you want to do I said I did allude to the fact that maybe the police he said don't bother he said possibly CPC I can do that so I did a course with task International in Maidstone it was X SBS good setup four-week course plot up an Hotel did a really quality high-end CP course with them it was armed because we're military we could do arm practice down in a place called I think it was litany airport we did the Firearms practice we did hostas rescue counter rats and team escort stats and BG work with you you name it we did it with BJ what's that bodyguard it's basically close protection yeah yeah so we did the lot and it was cracking it was really good course really enjoyed it and I left the forces in handed me ID and it was the end of August 95. the problem I was I did the course in April 95. came back to a unit now my unit weren't there most of them had gone off to Canada to do something called which means they provide up enemy for other regiments over there so I was back to a regiment which just had a rear pie which means just a few Lads that are literally keeping the pilot light on so I spoke to the guy in charge the RSO I'm kicking around doing nothing can I just can I just [ __ ] off support if you've got left Levi so I've got about three or four weeks leave left so I've got for its termination leave and I said it leaves me sat here with like five or six weeks just Fanning about he said just pack your bags and go go and get on your way you may as well you're not serving any purpose here so I ended up with about three maybe three and a half months on leave when I came out so I got back to England around about I think the beginning of June they're about which as a Squatty come back with maybe three to four months paid leave is great yeah but the problem I faced with that was it's also three months for what supposed to be being on leave being slightly Reckless yeah because I don't need to worry about working because I'm getting paid by the army so so the kind of aspect of my transition out of the forces into the into civistry if you like on the face but at the time seeing this as great but on reflection it was really crap because I didn't have to worry about things so so I ended up just kind of getting some casual door work doing some surveillance work and then doing some CP work a bit of working with top card security doing things like boxing venues um did Oasis gig in 96 in there which these are all kind of little bits of like a bit transition which didn't help me because I started seeing the world was was changing yeah now when I went into when I went to Army in 88 the Rave scene was really just bubbling on at that stage and didn't really have anything to do with it acidos came in right about in 1990 a little bit earlier than that 89 yeah so it's beginning to come in also I've seen yeah again I blew this to all of this the culture involved in that what what I was also oblivious to is the fact that a lot of people that I knew were starting to engage in ecstasy and amphetamine now I'd already tried in fact men on leave once and I I didn't when I was off my tits I just thought I was having a good night and then when I came out in 95 I was given a pill yeah that changed my life completely yeah totally and for different ways different reasons do you remember what pill it was yeah it was a thirty dollar recorded yeah but the reason I've been saw my friend and um I just come off the door um from the bar I was working in and I got to the club which was which is called Odyssey at the time where about uh Bristol Bristol Central Bristol gone to the club and we're chatting they're all I'm coming down off of my uh um uh and speed yeah I was feeling a bit this isn't it he said why do you have a pill in oh [ __ ] it go on and he just disappeared for like five ten minutes and he came back and he said he gave me cheers mate thanks so I just knacked it and I said I said what is our dirty dog he was already wasted he said like 30 dollars when I went oh God all right [ __ ] down there see what happens yeah him for a penny for a pound I just told nicked it and then I think half hour later four minutes later on everything changed the music got louder the bass was booming and I thought I could hear people's voices across the club standard stuff but what happened as well was the hyper vigilance which I would been which I have always suffered with was gone yeah no more didn't give a [ __ ] yeah didn't care about what was happening over there I didn't care what they were doing didn't care about what's happening by that fire accident yeah I think Kerry was stood behind me yeah I just carried about getting on that dance floor and dancing that's all I cared about we're a good dancer oh you thought you were standard mate yeah I thought it was great that was amazing it was like standard dance music it is not elaborate but I just I mean it's first I ever let myself go yeah totally let myself go I can't beat the 90s for clubbing yeah it was that that and that whole thing right here from the acid housing then then going from the Raves outside then going into the clubs yeah and that's when I got introduced into it in 95 when it was going mainstream into the clubs you had you you we was like God you judge Jules Jeremy here Big Brand and block yeah all the matches even on the podcast he lives down here now does he really he's like a cat he's literally had 10 lives yeah because it wasn't either one that sort of pissed up at the yeah some stories as well but so so what was the scene then you said your life changed from that 95 taking that your first day loving it did you what was the next movements for you well I think I didn't really have a plan after that yeah the the whole plan was was the whole plan would look for another reason when's the next weekend yeah when's the next weekend we've kind of had a group I kind of my door work I've been there I thought I'm not doing the door why am I standing there watching these people having a good time and I could be in there having a good time I don't that's doesn't there's no logic in there so I kind of started hitting me weekends and I had a we had a close group of friends only about four of us but we were really good mates we don't we've stuck together all through my coming on leave we go to Nuki on the piss together bank one of these we were a close-knit bunch and we were all messing with ecstasy and it was okay so that one of the guys are going to sort the pills out now he in the end decided he didn't want to do it anymore because he was getting stressed he was getting worried and we needed some of that I saw oh okay look I'll go and get them ain't no problem it's only four [ __ ] pills yeah ain't a problem so I went and did that and then I've gotten a little bit cheaper I suddenly found out that I'd get mine for free That's good I've got now got a slightly cheaper night because I've done what I don't consider as a risk but other people would say well that's a risk for me it wasn't because I'm used to doing much more risky things in the Army so my um the way I would process risk of evaluated was was in a different scale if you like and a lot of people who served they have a similar mindset to that so grabbing a small pan full of pills of four or five wasn't really a problem and that's really where it started yeah I didn't really officially sell any I didn't really go into the game of wanting to sell pills it wasn't really my aim so this was going on sort of like the I guess from the summer of 95 leading up a little bit and then we did a we moved into 96 early 96 and I went to a rave it was the um Pete Tong essential selection in Milton Keynes sanctuary and this is when for me this is the Heyday of the pills yeah we had a good group of friends we'd all sort of been socializing together and and we went off to this uh this thing we had a load of pink Calis at the time and I I think I'd like three for my night and I don't normally eat many before one or two would do me yeah and I'm clearly absolutely harbored in this club having the best time when someone come to me so have you got what are you honest are pink Cali's mate got any spare I thought have I do I need any more have I got a spare well I keep what if I say and I remember lifting a little bag I'm looking it through the lights and me mate says [ __ ] oh Rich you're blatant I said hang on one two yeah I got a spare one how much I'll give us a tenor yeah and that was the first pill I really sold to a stranger in a club could have been cool or anything I didn't really didn't really care about the time but I had the best night that was the first proper organized event I went to which I mean you know School you get these big dudes these big gigs and they're properly the atmosphere is unreal the people yeah and like I say back in the 90s that's when it was a plan we'd all go planning you get mixed mag everyone get mixed mag everyone plan what weekend where they're going what they're doing the whole the whole build up was for the weekend to get on a Tuesday four weeks you literally recover yeah on a Wednesday I know what we do on the weekend yeah because you're just exciting wasn't it up I feel okay now let's let's plan this whole new scene this whole new world coming to us it was just unreal so so from serving accidentally selling your first pill for a tenner what was the next steps from there what went on so I think in conjunction with that these little bits happening around me at the time all that I left the Army for it didn't work out it was never going to work out she wasn't really involved in the The Nightlife that I was involved and having a lighter about taking drugs and I thought this is just isn't working out I was getting very promiscuous I was involved in a scene where it was just it was just it didn't matter no one had any [ __ ] to give it was just enjoying yeah and I think I got sucked into it partly because at that time then I was beginning to miss the structure and the the sense of belonging which the forces had given me and that was quite powerful the very very strong sense of belonging which you have when you join up and when that's gone you've got this big old void in your life and I'm filling it with all this this Rave culture which really seemed to make sense and and the taking the risks of getting involved in banging out the odd little pillar and I really seemed to tick a few boxes for me and it it made sense it felt right so the Army had gone but this Rave or this this dance scene that it really filled it quite nicely almost carbon copy yeah I mean the jobra was different but every element of it added to my life in the same way it replaced everything and the forces did have and I ended up getting involved in just buying a couple of pills more and and it was a case of you could see a good atmosphere around you you could feel that me being involved in something I was kind of not that I want to be a focal point I was never never what I wanted but to be the middle of something was nice because when I was in the forces coming to leave you're just just a little satellite on the outside you're not current with anyone yeah you don't always see any you don't know who's doing what what job they're doing you're always playing catch up yeah so you're always kind of busy playing catch-ups you're never really involved in that community in the way that you think you're because you're different then your family is in the forces but for a change always that one in the middle and I felt like I belonged to something and it was a nice sense it was false but it was nice and people would see that and they'd kind of sort have you got any pills or no so I said however I I'll bring some that sweet so I started laying on a bit more than yeah let's have 20 yeah let's have 30 let's have 40 let's have a hundred and it kind of plateau for a while on 100 or 200 a week and then we added something happened um made a managed to serve it actually he was taking a trip back from Liverpool and he rang up and he saw explain what he's doing so I came we've had a bit of a Duff we couldn't get anything can you get anything I said yeah we're getting all the time no problem and we ended up he said well my guys don't know what a thousand is sort of rubbing me and saying I said we're in the money now it wasn't big money but I'm actually you pick him up a pop each one back then I think we're paying about on a thousand five four or five good and that was someone they were still okay how are you flipping them up for tens and 15s or no we were talking about in batches so we were probably sticking about seven to eight so we've got money okay between I had a partner at some business partner he's ex-forces and between us we're just we're just spunking the money yeah it was for our weekend play money wasn't it yeah that's what it was it was nothing more serious just just to afford our lights out it wasn't a lavish lifestyle but it was a lifestyle that we like because we were both craving for to be a part of something and um so the Thousand kind of increased our buying power which brought mine down a little bit and when when you take the time and effort to cut a thousand pills there's always extras yeah or there's a load of dusters load of crumbs yeah yeah so you've got all the dust and the bits and they couldn't bag them up into grams sell that off it so you go actually I'm not doing too bad I'm making a drink on the thousand yeah it's brought my buying power down so I'm buying mine for four or five credits so and I've got like 30 broken beers five grams of code which I can do that later on and so on and so forth so I started to see what potential could be done with the that's not quite wholesale yet but it's getting there did you send did you sense at the time it's going that way or are you just in it going this is easy yeah I didn't ever have any aspiration for it to go to where it ended up it just it was just one weekend at a time and a lot of it was just chasing up money getting the bill paid getting the next lot on flipping the money ground dog day constantly doing the same thing and I think it started it remained that way until about 98 when I met my did now my ex-wife and she wasn't involved in that at all she felt pregnant with our first son and he was born in 99 a minute she we found out she was pregnant and I think maybe it was a bit of a cry for help at the time because I did this one I've been three years on the go and that's quite a lot Thursdays Fridays Saturdays smashed every night and then spending a good two three days recovering and he might have one day of clarity where you're stressed out trying to get the money in yeah so I thought well okay that's it let's get a job I need a job because my parents have seen me as someone that's signing on yeah obviously didn't know I was selling drugs I thought I need to change this did your old man as a copper know anything that was going on at the time you never alluded to or let on that he was aware of it but I became really good at being invasive from a very young age because of having a dad as a cop yeah if you've done something in the house and you knew you're going to get in trouble you learned to cover your traps pretty well so I guess I was trained from a young age to be evasive and avoid the police whether either with my dad or not subconsciously yeah it's just a little software in the back of your mind so no one knew or no one let on that in you anyway um so once if I'm pregnant I just got a random job working for a Texas company delivering tea towels it was it was [ __ ] but it was a job and on paper it looked better than what I was doing which was nothing yeah the problem with that is I also then stopped going out clubbing on the weekends I thought was she can't go out you know because she's not going to be drinking I'm not going to go out on my own leave a pregnant girlfriend in the house or staying with her so I stopped going out a week I stopped taking pills started doing a bit of cocoa in there but I stopped taking pills so what I found then was I discovered Monday Tuesday and Wednesday I found these three days which hadn't existed for probably three years because I was no longer suffering with a come down so that boosted my motivation and I was driven a bit differently and I find that working in a textiles business delivering random tea towels and bath sheets to hotels I had a van which was perfect cover for delivering my drugs so I then started to look at expanding the business I was selling a bit of pot anyway a bit of unfair I mean never really got involved in cooking that stage but certainly the pills so I was saying going from doing a thousand miles up to maybe four or five thousand pills a week yeah but the van was great cover yeah because all of a sudden I didn't have to worry about being in my own car I had an excuse to stop off anywhere I had a tea towels I could pop into a building or an establishment it has a package within that would have been what they wanted it was great so I started that job for like three years and it really worked well my son was born and I just continued on that track but then the pill Market died right at 97.98 yeah when the the drag came in yeah and it just felt flat on this ass yeah totally flatless there was nothing around a good six months yeah the mixers were introduced yeah which gave it a rebirth then the price was started yeah buying for Pence literally Pence pennies and Mitsubishi's coming they were cheap they were Critter pop on that we were buying we were buying ten thousand for like 40ps wow and but we're only making pencils selling them in thousands I was only making like 100 quid on the thousand because what is the point in that well she paid away yes in storage I thought he quit yeah crazy so I started selling Coke then I kind of started entertaining yeah selling code but in bits and Bobs nothing major I I was sort of like again friend of mine I was using his buying power through a guy who used to work up in the Midlands he would bring stuff down I'd grab a few bits on top of it and just test the water see where it's going still sell some pills because there was still a market for it but it wasn't worth just doing it so if I'm going to go and deliver some coke let's let's provide a a comprehensive service if you like which is what I was doing and I didn't really take it too seriously until about 2002. I just finished just got married at this stage I thought I was getting fed up with just buying it in and selling it on for let's just let's just start [ __ ] with it let's start making our own up and repress and switch to a friend of mine and he said yeah I'm up for that he's got a good Market he's got all the contacts I just had the idea so we got in the press in the molds and the the various things we've mixed with it and we started cutting ourselves and that's when it kind of really started so about 2002 it really started to pick up we're doing a lot give me an example when you've got the press in and so the listeners understand what is that for so what you do is the the correct phrases adulterating the drugs you're cutting it stamping it pressing it so you're mixing maybe one kilo into three four two however you far you want to stretch it depending on the customer base so you would have a mold maker made out of let's say a very strong metal yeah stainless for example I don't want to give away too much don't seem to be telling people how to do it you'd have a mole you'd have a tent on hydraulic press which is used in garages for taking out things like bearings it's just it just feels got a ram that comes down you've literally packaged okay remix it put it into this this mold and press it down under 10 tons of pressure pop that other side there you go one solid block job done there you go so for example how much is a key back then for you so the first time we started getting keys back in is about O2 and we were paying around about 27 Grand okay and it was good and when you're when you're looking at like when you bring in a kilo there what was your initial going 50 50. how are you splitting there so inside he was doing the majority of it yeah so we might take one and turn into three I guess what the other thing we would do he would be probably putting out about two and three quarters of that I'd be just like doing a nine yeah and they'll be sort of testing the waters without and seeing where it goes when you say testing the waters when you're splitting the cocaine up and then you are going okay well a third of its cocaine two-thirds of it's not what's the other two thirds so at the time we used something called Mannitol at the time which I think is something to do with horses I have no idea so it's it's a it's like a benign white powder okay I think the common misconception is that people use things like rat poison washing powder speed you wouldn't want to kill your customers you want to keep them happy and on board so use something which is either maybe um uh which has no real effect itself or some which can offer like a placebo effect so there's various things that we would use and across the years as we got further further involved in it we gained access to different and suppliers which could provide you The Cutting agents and in in the end sometimes the cotton agents were worth as much if not more than the coat itself because the value of a drum of caffeine for example we some people pay two or three thousand pounds for a drummer Cafe for 20 or 20 kilos but that in itself one kilo of that is effectively probably worth 10 15 20 grand yeah because you're getting you're mixing it with 90 pure yeah other things benzocaine novocaine lidocaine anything ending with cane it's generally fairly hurricane Harry Kane yeah Michael okay Chuck him in the mix here we go on there so let's go back to that you're bringing the key for 27 yeah you're splitting it you're taking a third out what were you selling that key for so they were very think at the time nines are going about seven and a half Grand and nine yeah okay so in average you get one at 27 then you get up three kilos yeah you know that's twelve sevens that's what 63 70 84. wow okay so that's that's a big Dollar in it yeah there's a good there's a good sort of Mark there's a good 40 50 Grand in a key yeah wow and when and when that first started where were you doing that were you doing it in various places okay you're on the Move constantly you'd have to you've moved you you'd find people that you trusted yeah and they rent out a room maybe I've been in the position where I was doing better I would rent someone a flat yeah and say right there you go a two bed flat I'll put you in that you live there rent free I just want you to spare room yeah and did they did they know what you were up to they'd have a good idea did that not make you paranoid knowing that other people and knowing what you're up to because you know you're saying you're evasive growing up as your old man's a copper surely you'd go somewhere where no one knows nothing well that's a difficult thing with that with that industry in order to to make cells you need customers there's always going to be someone that's going to know yeah building a network around you you have to you you get this stupid sense of I suppose invincibility where you think you you think you might get caught but you just hope that you don't so you have to start trusting people if you're going to expand you have to trust people there's only so much you can do on your own and if you're bringing in let's say for example one or two kilos and you're turning that to six or seven yeah I'm doing it all on your own so you're taking a trip to London yeah Liverpool pick it up you're doing the corridor the M4 Corridor the M5 whichever one it might be so you've got one meeting there that's one chance to go wrong yeah generally in transit you're okay unless you really [ __ ] up and crash you're drawing like a [ __ ] yeah which you shouldn't be doing a job anyway you then got to think right I've got to repress this so you've got to do all that on your own yeah that's hours of work it's not a quick job to do to come to term one into say maybe three or four sometimes more depending if there's a drag you're looking at several hours of hard work in a room in a house where the door could go anytime that is really heavy power because you're you should mask up should not be a tank yeah yeah it's these are the days you're getting and just get on with it so you're breathing in caffeine you're getting pulpitations you're breathing in the cope you're not getting the you're not getting the plus side of it's getting the the negative sign to it when you were when you were going to collect the cocaine from your London or your Liverpool's and bring it back where were you testing it so I take it on face value so once once you've got the link and you know that the goods are good you only really have to test it on the first meeting to make sure that they're that they're genuine it's any good and I wouldn't be sniffing out there's no no chance I'm going to go and have a line yeah and start a thing like carrying that back yeah either you take someone with you as a guinea pig or you look at it and you just you either wash it up literally don't know you convert it into cracking you do a measurement test so you are you you weigh it a gram you clean it you make sure it's dried out properly as it should be and then you weigh it again it comes back at 0.7 grams 70 and so on and so forth yeah so that's indication but washing up a garlic is a dirty filthy process it's effectively making crack which I just threw in the in the bin dip on it but it's the only way to really get a Surefire way of testing how pure it is was there ever a time where you would where you were dealing with the wrong people you're totally at your depth all the time yeah most of the time the early days you as I said this Minefield you meet people you think I don't like working with these people yeah these are hard work these are erratic these people are dangerous but in that world you meet people when you're making them money they're your best mate yeah when you're not they're not your best mate go on your case you're no good to anyone was there ever a time when you totally had the fear about something yeah but I can't go into it but there are times when you've had enough I've been sat I I admitted myself to hospital in 2007 because I don't know if I was trying to get this debt paid off and I thought this I can't do anything were you using as well no I'd been there by that I'd been this you were cleans your head restraints but you were under serious pressure yeah the pressure was immense it was immense I don't know if I was gonna try and take my life in 2000 November 2007. I I had enough no 2006 sorry I've done enough you're going to take your own life yeah I was ready to die I was literally I checked into the local hospital in in Bristol into frenzy Hospital risk of suicide um mental breakdown and I went in there and I said look I couldn't tell on the wild had a mental break then I said look my business has gone completely tits up I can't face it anymore and they they diagnosed me with um severe depression and the following data they discharged me and I sat in my car I'll sat on the passenger side and I sat and I was thinking my phone's been off all night because I've only been collecting money up I had enough I was meant to go and collect up and I just switched the phone off which isn't like me not even to my wife no one at all no one nothing switch your phone on there's load of missed calls coming through load of messages coming through and I sat and I just looked down I had a knife in the dash in the in the glass pit put me wrist and I started thinking I'm and I couldn't do it just sort of like think thought of my son's and I thought I can't do this I thought my boys and after that I thought no you can't get you can get through this so I then went to the doctors got me happy pills within three days I was in a different state of mind I started to sort of manage the day-to-day so the imminent threat or the feel of that anxiety and stress have been sort of reduced significant enough for me to sort of focus on it and then the opportunity came up the following um following year this was like back end of 06 early 07 the guys or the chat though the money to it said look you know he said we got away you can pay off a bit quicker I was down to about it this time about 30 grand left on the debt and he said oh we've got a way you can bring it you can pay it off and so what size you want to start bringing it over I said uh [ __ ] it why not so yeah that was your that was your get out that that was the the opportunity then to start paying the data and become useful again so it was then offered the opportunity to start looking at going over to Spain to link up with people over there and start being a part of a smuggling operation and bringing it from Spain over to the UK so that was the opportunity I had which I embrace when you had the opportunity were you immediately like yeah I'll have this a piece of this didn't think twice okay not even a second not even a hesitant thought yeah [ __ ] it why not tell me what your route was what did you do you had to fly out of there what was so bad I did three trips and luckily I didn't have to carry anything on the trip so the way that it played out was the aim was to they want me to bring back a couple of kilos for them an equivalent price back then right over there they were 20 22 000 Euros a piece or twenty thousand Euros a shop and the exchange rate was about 1.4 as well so it was 15 grand 16 yeah yeah it wasn't it was it was worth it yeah definitely worthwhile for considering it could probably they could easily double the money yeah so got over there the aim was I was going to put this well orchestrated plan it was a go-to um Barcelona which is the pickup point perfect that's just over the border so what I'm going to do it's February it's cold I'm a keen skier let's let's put on the guys I'm going to go scaling that door for three days so off I went got the boat down we changed the money up in London change that from English into into Euros in a in a dodgy little shop which you could do then um get 500 euros back 500 no 500 euro notes back once you're reduced the amount of money you're carrying from a small holder to an envelope which was quite handy get that over the name of them was to go down to Andorra where I'd then book into a hotel get a lift pass for three days which is what I did I pay for the lift past for three days hotel for one night because it was a long day and then they was to meet the guy over in Barcelona the following day and then pick it up and bring it back up through for the [ __ ] size just just a bit further down like another day's drive so it's been gorilla so I got down there that night about 11 o'clock to meet my bat and um stays there of all [ __ ] people I thought here we go please don't do this so he's put me in a hotel for the night so I said all right we'll stick you in the hotel we've had a longer Drive oh yeah science I'll come with you in the morning I'll look over your car check out all that makes everything's okay yeah no no worries mate told me it's awful this is all right I'm in the hotel and I'm chilling like the first time in a long time I felt relaxed it wasn't hot but it wasn't cold it was Spain south of Spain in February it is what it is so I'm just relaxing not really thinking about the potential of what is going to be going on in in the coming days and he said we're just waiting on the kit to come through when I saw the next day let's have a look over your car just want to make sure it's okay for doing what you've got to do out of rent there it was a Passat Vita Passat dog it was a blender it was fine did the job but little did I know it doesn't really do the job because I rent a car over to Spain for three days is a is a red flag for Customs as is a single guy driving the car back over he's also another red flag so he's looking over the car popped the boot open then in the back of the bit I've always got with me my Army sleeping bag because you never know what's going to go wrong if I got that at least and also for me it's a get out of jail free card with the police if I get pulled by the police and the Army sleep back it's a talking point I sell X forces you know you get a little bit of a touch sometimes if they serve them before so you might have a little touch so you'll have multiple reasons why I was in there and the guy looked in a boot he said what [ __ ] Unit were you mate this was a tanky because I used to be in the Royal Green Jackets or [ __ ] squatty perfect straight away buying roommates instantly so what it looked like come with me it's gonna get someone to have a sit down so straight away the whole relationship changed immediately we had that common ground it's a little secret it's what we're gonna do and he said look I'll be honest with you you fit a description of a Smuggler your car fits a description of a car used for smuggling he said we've got stuff going over the Border anyway so you work with us I will take your stuff over for you we'll save you doing that channel that 20 miles of water obviously yeah pure fear because I hadn't even planned I was going to smuggle it over there he said we'll do it for you you just help us out on what we're doing oh yeah no worries so do that so then we bonded this this relationship between me him and this other ex squatty or as it was like the the enforcer if you like so there's three of us doing this we did it for two or three months just bouncing up and down across the border which worked well so I didn't actually have to carry anything I just literally drove a car ahead and just checked that the the various payers in the the tolls were clear of Peace because they do have police on them now and again especially when you're going to cross the border by um by board um Bilbao yeah so that's a bit of a heavy border so there's Crossings we got around there so the trip would have been usually because we were picked up in the Madrid in the end was meet up with a Colombian sort of like filming in Madrid grab what you need and then the guy in responsible carrying it would be in a different vehicle and we would escort him like a satellite escort him across about through Spain up through Bordeaux past Paris up towards the channel Tunnel crossing and over again so the channel tunnel you're coming through no the guy was a courier working in Europe so he wasn't even English he come across and he had a regular Transit across anyway so he would then be given the goods he would take it across and then that that was kind of outside of my yeah that was something there going anyway but you were still getting paid full whack for doing don't get paid yeah because I came to him what was done because I was working for them yeah they would then make sure I got paid so I'd use the money for them to live on the money got paid from these guys I started paying the debt off well okay which I secured the debt I paid it off the back end of 2007. right okay so some yeah and then and then that relationship built into yeah so all these 18 months of pure hell of trying to pay a debt off apply myself to get this reduce the size of this hole in my life once that hole was paid off I thought I've got some disposable income though because at the time I've been building new contacts slowly rebuilding my business so I found that over the beginning of 2008 I then took on a new Runner good mate X forces took him on I took on something else I started to build it again and I found that my customer as I've proven myself that I was not on sort of person that if I've got a bill I'll [ __ ] pay yeah whatever it takes I will pay that bill so people trusted me you know I was really trusted sized I was introduced into new networks and then it went from sort of away into a nine I was really sort of down to the point where I was doing anything between nothing and 10 kilos a week yeah no it would vary it would sometimes be nothing sometimes it might be more so you're doing from zero a week to 150 Grand a week in cocaine yeah so profit-wise I wish yeah I wish so by this time I'd come in around about 09 we we were suffering with some issues with cocaine coming through properly yeah certainly into 10 but we'll go into that in a bit so the amounts that could be made it was such a competitive market at this stage everyone was jumping on board everyone was doing it benzocaine was Rife it was anyone could find benzocaine anyone could find caffeine and they could find it in bulk as well so the price will start with cocaine and like the SSC Market the prices were driven right down so there came a stage around about 2009 well nobody really knew what proper Coke was because they're all get all they were getting was heavily hit stuff with benzocaine with lidocaine novocaine caffeine Pub grub Pub grub exactly that it was like by 20 quid for a gram well you're not getting much for that Rea but that that was what people got used to and it became more of a placebo than anything else yeah so the price will start to really should be looking at then you'd be selling kilos out for like 15 grand 20 grand but they might be luckily it might be like 10 wow horrendous wow great from a seller's Point yeah but crap from a user point of view but then again it is what it is that's the market it's a greedy ruthless office individual's Market was there ever a time in this period 09 010 what you're thinking things are coming on top you know you were brought up by a copper you knew and you got a good sense you got a good feel you're not your normal typical drug dealer you're a Chancellor who's gone you know I'll give it a go I'll give it a go this is easy money did you ever get a gut feeling of something's happening that doesn't feel right yeah so as you go through you you would be foolish to get involved in that world with like knowing that if you don't stop at some point you're gonna get caught yeah the only way is out of it well I've always look at it is there's three ways I die you get cool or you actually make it but the last one's a little bit Moody because you're only going to make it and stay in that industry for all that time if you turn because let's face it if you turn more turn and start working with the police I'll work there's very very few people I can actually I'm not going to say everyone I'm not going to Brand everyone but very hard to go through an industry and be at a certain point where you're making that much money and doing that well without people knowing what you're doing yeah and if people know what you're doing so do the police and then jealousy kicks in as well and at that point when you get to that point we're making that much space classic case of layer cake you know when they make you when you make that much money you're doing that well you don't care about any all you care about is losing your money yeah you don't care about anyone else so the indication I got was so 2009 was my first close call with regards to um an arrest Motorsports I'd set the Motorsport company up I was doing launch Motor Sport doing track days I was doing time attack I was starting to race it assembly professional level I was with branded it is living the dream I really was living the dream because I'd gone through two years of near hell trying to pay off that bill yeah finally I'm making some good money so let's channel the money into a business let's do this properly I might not get another chance let's make something of it join a recession where no one has got any money I'm doing really well everyone else is [ __ ] I'm doing really well so I'm applying money into cars to tune the cars to racing and I'm beginning to think I'm on my way I can see my exit strategy there's the door that's my way out and this this new lifestyle is giving me all it's ticking all the same boxes that the drugs did it it gives me structure it gives me risk it will bring money in in time so we were becoming quite I say week because I had a team of people with me both had a drugs network of people and I have my my company profile as well not massive but it was something it was picking up and then 2009 I think it was a back end of October with Julie got a meeting and and my dad and his friend were due to come and pick me up take me for a meeting with someone so I'm going to do with an air filter doing to um uh so we could go and look at another event knock on the door about seven o'clock ask me dads [ __ ] early I've done a load of Suits stood therefore and they said oh Rich Jones said yeah yeah I saw us um West Mercy a place I went uh okay I think we've got a warrant to search your house I and straight away I thought [ __ ] this is it of course my wife then is like what's going on but I don't worry it's fine don't worry about it I don't know what it is because working in Motorsport you can you can get pulled into criminal circles anyway so I have no idea so they came in and the warrant said to search for evidence of unexplained wealth and I thought it's slightly ambiguous isn't it what what what exactly is this for us and we just got one such promises yeah fine there's nothing in the house there's nothing there so I'm thinking what have I got in this size which could cause me a problem so I'm sat in the kitchen with an officer and they're really Pleasant and I don't nicked me they just they just got a warrant my wife or their wife was angry doing a school run I'm left to know something my dad's outside in the car with his mate wondering what the [ __ ] going on um of course old ex old bill is is really questioning things I'm starting to thinking there's one thing in this house which could cause a problem there's only one thing everyone else I'm pretty sure is clean and in the kitchen I used to have to keep a a list of money that was owed in money Zone I keep a record of it somewhere but I was always quite mindful that if you have a list which is blatant yeah that's evidence in itself so mine was written on the inside flap of a box as far as crackers and open a flat in pencil if you're in a very very light with just initials with a number next to it I thought if they searched that cupboard over there and they find that box and they see that written in there then they've got some of them is that I think your eye needs to come up and excuse to get to get rid of that [ __ ] box so the search in the house and making their way downstairs and they get through and if I could do it now I'll do that okay breakfast it's about half nine so the office keep an army so can I get someone to eat he said yeah before your boots and carry on so went over to the cupboard I got some butter out the fridge and I got these crackers out here and I I sort of like laid a three or four crackers out but they've been open for about six months mate they were a style yeah they were like the aim was to just I'm trying to spread the butter on and they just stick into the butter and it's like I just eat them like oh they've gone off really bad so I crunched up the box threw it in the bin and left it alone for right here so we didn't search and the police eventually came round into the kitchen and I think there's only two of them came in they literally when the covers looked through that was it it didn't even bother looking at the content they weren't searching that hard so the evidence was that I was in the bin that was gone they didn't check the bin had they seen that that would have been an indication that someone's going on but they didn't they got it so that was in 2009 so this was associated with someone that was a customer of mine and it just sort of like seemed to go away nothing They seized my laptops they took they didn't even take my phones they just took the laptops they took a few little bits with them and that just sort of faded the way now that was in 09 and I thought okay fair enough we moved into 2010 I just carried on I thought well let's let's give it a couple of weeks rest let's see what happens but nothing came about so we just [ __ ] crack on them so we I reopened the business again about two series later on started selling and we kept on going and then came to April the following year and they gave me a phone call so we wanted to come down for a voluntary interview yeah okay no worries I went down to that got solicitor down had a voluntary interview and it was just basically asking questions about there was a couple of transactions of money going into someone's account up in um Malvern area and they were to question what that money was for us well I sold him a car yeah there's there's a document that's the car I bought from me it's registering his name it's mine why didn't you take the money the other one goes we couldn't afford it so we did it in Bill bits and it was money for the car this okay yeah fair enough no further action and the reason that no further action was taken was because I didn't realize that this time there was something else going on in the background so we're in about the same sort of time in 2009 I think just slightly before that around about the summer there was a robbery involved um at a plant nursery and it involved a guy that was working for me at the time and he was kind of like managing things for me he was going to be the person that was going to take over my um myself I was going to give him the whole business just give me a retainer I'd go into that shortly and there was a robbery involved in this Nursery by some local gangsters what they knew that they weren't just grown plants to sell the public there were some other plants going on they knew that this this crop would come down they wanted it so they went as an armed robbery and the lad that ran into it basically got caught from his misses I said look we're being robbed help so he was a builder he ran into this uh ran to the scene drove in um as he went in a taser with him and he ran into what he did instead of running into tackling these armed robbers he ended up bumping into the police because someone had already called the police so he was unaware that when he ran into something with a taser the police were sat there waiting they'd already arrived on a scene so they arrested him thinking he was part of the robbery when they arrested him they searched his premises they searched everything that everything associated with him and inserted some outbuildings and what they found was a press and some molds and some cutting agents they didn't find any cooking but they find residue yeah the cocaine so that then meant he was being watched and he was on a bit of a lock thing so park that one from there so 2010 comes in best year and my worst year so we started off I'm going to be going now racing professionally I'm going to be doing Saloon racing time attack I sponsor the three cards even the British drift championship and it was a big year this was going to be the launch into my new business the plan was that year is to really get out there get social media go and get the car seat and get get me see and get everything known so I can now open the garage in the end of that year so we started looking at we found a location me in this the chap that was arrested the following year location we revamped this whole unit to create a really nice Motorsport themed garage perfect that was drawing the back end of the summer of 2010 all that through that year I was racing it was just an incredible year massive outgoings but I was Channel married to making this business work to give up the drugs so we we opened the garage on the 1st of October 2010 was the grand opening day that was that was the thing this was it and I'm ready I said to the guy right okay all I want to do is hand you the drugs business give it a couple of weeks and we get some let me pull some money in and hand that over to you and then I just want a little retainer just Chuck this four or five grand a month to cover the cost of the garage whilst we get it self-sufficient and it's up and running and that was the agreement 28 Days Later on back in the October one of my Runners gets taken down and he's carrying one and a quarter kilos police on the M5 or just off the M5 I thought [ __ ] this doesn't happen we we don't give any reason to be arrested so is that he's had a few Runners with the police himself in times book there's no reason to be nicked so I shot down he's reminded straight away um I shot the business shut down a drugs business thinking this this is not good I've lost one of the quarter kilos I've now got to find 20 30 grand to cover the cost of that which at the time was actually skinned because I've played everything into this garage everything had gone into that so it was beginning now the drugs business was beginning to to falter beginning to fail because I just I literally rinsed the [ __ ] out of here to get this garage open so I can just leave it behind and also I got a 30 40 Grand back to play oh [ __ ] so I thought nope I'm shutting down so the guy that was arrested the previous year he said do you want to keep going I said no I'm done all my Runners are gone I've lost everything I've shut it down I've shut down the whole Enterprise so listen all right okay so we give it another month it's a Jonah do you want to go again I said no I'm not doing it he said go on just do one more sorry [ __ ] it go on I need the money so I sent it a runner he got me running I sent this Runner down south of Bristol down towards uh just like the bath he picked some some drugs up they got arrested literally within 15 20 minutes because he got nicked so that's two arrests in two deals in two months done nothing in between before definitely on top I'm 100 sure now that I'm being watched so that was it I shut the whole thing down completely so that's it completely did destroyed the loss and I said I'm having nothing to do with it so New Year's Eve comes it's a [ __ ] winter 2010 was cold really bad I'm starting a cold garage I've got new customers because no one can afford nothing because it's a recession I've got no money to keep it going or selling off the assets because I seen but keep it going is because as purely by selling stuff the phone goes on New Year's Eve it's a friend of mine I said just throw up a little bit of Coke every now and again so it's like can you help me out I said no mate you know I'm done so please it's New Year's Eve I said all right I'll give you a number so give another number I said look mate I've got nothing to do with it just do your thing so New Year's Eve comes up this on the third of sorry New Year's Eve comes up and then I'll just presume they're going to go and do the thing the phone ring system lad I said what's up mate so I can't get all the amazing have you rang him yeah he's not answering just just keep [ __ ] trying in mate don't ring me that's not going to help is it and the phone rings against the other guy I said what he said you might I can't find him anywhere I said have you rang him well yeah but I said well don't ring me now I've got a phone call from both these people they do their deal thought nothing that night goes news either so I'm a half ten at night a phone call goes from the guy's body so I just got a police station mates and we'll say so I just got nicked after buying a thing off your power for [ __ ] sakes so that's three arrests in three months that's the last cocaine I sold or last coconut anything to do with that was New Year's Eve 2010 and then I'm now thinking right when are they going to come for me yeah it's gonna happen just when did you not think that way before yeah I should have done yeah but I think you pulled into this financial trap then this point then I'm committed because I'm thinking I'm gonna get arrested I just know it's gonna happen I just I'm just kind of hoping that it's not going to happen I'm so geared up to this exit strategy of the Motorsport I'm kind of pulled by that I'm so busy thinking of that I'm not thinking about what's going on on the outside of it and that's the that that I think is the the Trap of drugs is it's not not other people keeping it you keep it and you keep yourself in it yourself by your own greed by your own desperation did you not think when the old bill turned up from West Mercier police they will come in and obviously do you know nothing hold on a minute this is on top stop cut everything only for a moment but because you were greedy yeah and that you had to fund your sports card business because you wanted to get out of the drugs into sports car live a clean life yeah everyone's happy yeah but the the addiction of earning quick money will never go no that's it and it's that quick deal is it and and that's the good analogy to use it's quick money it's far from easy yeah it's not easy money but it is quick and potentially lucrative you start to lose just as much just as quickly but that is there as the thought of like just just keep it going just and how do you walk away let's say you spend years building a successful business you put everything into you give it everything you've got you you sacrifice everything to make it work and when it's finally working that's when you cigar the drugs game when it's working but why would you do that I've spent years from it now and it's finally making money but that's the right time to walk away you say you set your goal you make your money you get the [ __ ] out quick we've always got to come back haven't you yeah you've always got a way to come back into it so where was it where were you what date was it where were you when you got nicked so it's April the 13th I think or Saturday of 2011. yeah so we'd had a dream to let it then no all done so you're cleaning nothing so after December so literally I was done in Dusty and we just we now just saw we just moved into the Motorsport season now I think we're into the Motorsport season let's see if I can survive this get some customers online so we've had a good day at Castle race circuit all day on the previous Saturday we'd raised awareness we're looking at that the sun was out it's getting warmer thought you know what it's gonna be all right I do I think I might have just slipped through the net on this one foolish you thinking that so I sat on my garage on this Tuesday morning and uh my garage kind of in the reception if you like my office upstairs opening up before everyone gets there it's about eight o'clock and look out through a door to my left which looks onto a hard standing area where it's like like a time out there for all the cars there in here just a little show error if you like and I just saw three dark cars just sort of drift by the door just for the little slot this is it in my I didn't say that for subconsciously thought this is it yeah this is this is the police coming to harass me now I thought let's get up and go and have a look because I couldn't I could just see the back of one car so I got up walked out saw three cars sort of debussing if you like with sort of like maybe 10 police officers to casually dressed with smart casual I was definitely the police looking out for 100 is like the police said they're not coming for anything else other than to Nick me I said good morning are you doing I said Rick James said yeah they walked over and the officer was really decent he said they're arresting for conspiracies like Kane or classic drugs namely cocaine blah blah blah yeah fair enough I don't even say no I've got nothing to say what can you say that's it but it wasn't a traumatic event yeah still going to shock though because although you're waiting for it it's the it's the the thing that you've dreaded all these years all these in all these 15 years of selling drugs one of my first dealer ever said to me is a really good friend he's out of it now he said when you get nicked not if when you get this they said they're going to hit you with three things either it's going to be possession possession with intent or conspiracy said you don't want conspiracy because they get you with that you're [ __ ] and when they say conspiracy of that I thought back 15 years ago yeah he said that so strictly I thought well I was so [ __ ] what did the word conspiracy mean to you it just sounded like it was complex yeah you know and and the definition is of a conspiracy is an arrangement or plan made by two or more people to commit harmful or dangerous act that's a cons that's the definition of conspiracy I know X has read to me quite prominently by the police when they sat there and interviewed me so that was it I kind of like did you feel relieved yeah I'd like to say that totally yeah like Jesus Come On Top geez I'm relieved now just like put me in Nick yeah because finally I thought I'm out of this yeah I haven't died and I almost made it because the garage was open on the 1st of October but the investigation started on the 25th of September so they they started watching me before they were watching for significantly they were watching you for way longer they would go back a year they have my name they knew what was going on they were watching me they're just waiting for the right moment and They seized and they jumped on it when they knew I'd given up so it was like the last hurdle did did you not think like it's easy to look back now but did you not think at the time I'm I'm clearing all this dough Happy Days into that business I do not think someone looking at me go that's pretty obvious no at the time you get so it's such a gradual build yeah that you being clever right okay and although I was never done for money launder and I I am aware that proced to crime is a real thing and it's a real kick in the nuts it's the sting and the Scorpion's top so I was mindful that poker is a thing and that assets will be taken it needs to be very clever about how I navigate that process which you know I was hit with a pocket bill after I got the conviction how much it was just under half a mil of realizable of of benefit which is quite low in considering in consideration and 17 grand in realizable asset which which is yeah so nothing which I reduced at the fine Brown that's one key that's one yeah so I drop that in the 5K which I'm I was happy with I was satisfied with that and the half Mills dropped down to 125 because of my audited accounts what did they slap on you how long did you get 15 years you got 15 yeah first offense I only broke the law once just did it for a long time why did they give you so much you reckon so with conspiracy yeah when they weigh up when they get once they finally get the guilty and I ran a trial I was arrested twice for conspiracy display so one was by even a Somerset soccer which is now the NCA yeah and two weeks later on six organized crime agency that's it yeah no it's NCAA agency okay so same thing just different badge next twice so I got found guilty on one not good on the other which is the correct outcome and they weigh up the grander picture of the conspiracy I.E where do you sit within this attribution time so we've got three three roles in four categories you've got leading role significant role and lesser role then you've got to carry one down to four now this will give you a chart of your roles any categories and it'll say right okay so how much drugs were there involved in this conspiracy anything more than a kilo is category one so it's quite easy to get to category one yeah it doesn't take any consideration Purity it's the volume but Purity will go as an aggravated factor which means leading role will put you in so if you are a leader right you're detached from the thing but you're you're orchestrating it which I clearly was your leading role your category one yeah and that ranges 12 to 16 years starting point would be 14 years so right let's look at your aggravated factors Purity any violence fault any guns any any you know what have we got involved in that closeness to Source we're all seen as aggravated factors uh mitigating reasons what have we got to bring it down we've really gotten have you it is what it is so they looked at the starting point they said we're going to give you 15 years because you're fairly close to Source there was no evident violence have always there never was because it's a business but we're going to give you 15 years that's it did you I was about to say what was that feeling like when he said you've got 15 years and did you know when you're serving up at the time you're thinking if I get nicked one though I'm going to get a seven I'll deal with it I'm gonna get a nine I'm gonna get eleven did you ever think 15. no and how you put it across is actually spot on because as you progress through this industry and you climb which if you don't climb that's fine but if you climb you see people around you get arrested often I only start after getting six months they get in a year at least that but you just kind of you go on the basis that you just hope that you don't get nicked so I was looking at the categories looking at the Ross I know I'm leading role I put myself insanely into category two which my estimation then was to be 9 or 13 years so I said if I get about 10 because I served in the force he's going to give he's going to give me a touch I had 10 maybe 11 in my mind so I went into the sentencing with all the co-defendants that we had at the time there were 13 of us arrested all together sat there thinking right yeah I work about 10 or 11 and my ex-wife my dad kids were obviously and a few friends were in the public gallery and when the judge gives you a sentence he doesn't just say it like on the TV and slams a hammer as well you're giving 15 years he reads out a bit of spill he'll he'll he'll realize as to why he's come to this conclusion and and why he's given his such a significantly long sentence and when it came to mind he was just rattle off and stuff about mitigation liberated factors and then so I come to the Collision only give you 15 years and he carried on talking I thought you what mate yeah I just thought did he just say 15 I looked across at my wife and everyone I like that the Jaws are dropped and I think in he just said 15. so I thought [ __ ] that's a long time and all I could do is they said take him down the back all I could do and looked across them I said I'll phone you later that's all I could do I couldn't think of because I see my wife was getting you know my wife was starting to sort of looks like she was going to have a breakdown um I saw the damage immediate sort of damage to them because they thought not only to be found guilty but now he's been given 15 years and and I created this um utter [ __ ] that I didn't do it they thought I was their innocent they thought I had nothing to do with it who did the whole family the whole family I couldn't come I ran a trial because I didn't want to admit to them yeah that I turned to this drug dealer so did you go not guilty yeah yeah if you went guilty would you reckon you would have got nine years seven months did you know that yeah because I had a co-defendant who was on the same level as I was and he weren't guilty straight away because everyone knew what he was doing he got nine seven what made you not want to go just go I'm guilty I think two things one was the transfer element of it I fancy a fight on this one I quite like the idea of running the trial yeah I never stood in the Box before and then I had to argue with the prosecution that's crazy I was given relatively poor advice that you've got a good chance you've got nothing on you fight it okay no problem and the fact that if I pleaded guilty and accepted the guilt I'm opening the doors to everything throughout me one of them is how do I admit to my dad do I mean extremely close to that I've turned into a drug dealer and the other one is if I say guilty on this I'm accepting proceed to crime so there's more just to try you're fighting just not just to try off the conviction you're fighting a trial for the poker as well so you you you're accepting everything and I wasn't willing to accept that I thought I'm going to fight it but in hindsight the 15 years was necessary for me to achieve what I needed to achieve with the guys to what I did in prison would you do in prison so when I got locked up seven and a half years of that is going to be inside so you go to a category beeper as an initially which is for longer termers um not high security but it's much higher security than a cat C spend two is getting yourself sort your [ __ ] out get fit get healthy I was quite overweight I was I was unhealthy so I got sort of my life out focused on me two years of that which changed my whole confidence levels it it it it created a better version of me that I was happy with um then I got downgraded my security to a category C went to a place called hmp Oakland where I then looked at the support for veterans because when you go inside for me the immediate default was I can do this because this is a very stagger environment as we mentioned there there's a lot of blokes around there I can do this because I've done it before in the Army this is the same I can cope with this environment so you default to the military mind you default to the guy that served in the forces so that 15 years of being involved in drugs that kind of counted a little bit because I understood the people in the prison but the seven life years prior to that of being in the Army counted more because I could understand the environment and those two things collectively meant that I could thrive in prison so what prison what prisons did you go to over your period yes it started off in 2011 and reminded in Gloucester prism which was first time in jail quite nice to be fair for a Fred bus was not was in there or Fred was used to be you know when he was knocking around um local prison in Gloucester it was okay it was right I was in here for five weeks I got a bell came out it's on tag for nine months with a curfew you went to knit you got 15 years yeah then you got a bail no so leading up to that stage when I was arrested the second time for conspiracy with Gloucester soccer yeah they reminded me yeah even a Somerset Bellmead Gloucester reminded me because they needed a bit more meat on the bone yeah that's what was arrested twice saber reminded me and took lost a job with my attendance okay before you got the 15 years okay yeah so then when I got the 15 I was never around then into Bristol yeah which was wasn't ideal but it was a local jail for me I knew people in there um in fact I knew a lot of people in there which which made it quite comfortable for me and then when I got the 15 years or since I was cat B Center Loudon Grange in Nottingham which is a privately run job with Circo Different World Private prisons are tender to the government and they'll run it as a business so a lot of aspects are a lot better and what I mean by that is you're getting they've got better sales in your cells single cells you've got a phone in your cell you you've got a phone in yourself you've got a phone or a mobile or no just a standard answer but you rather than being on a wing phone in your standard public sector prisons where you've got to queue up use a phone which everyone's been screaming and certain that you've got a phone in your pad you can bring up the misses in the evening you can it's a lot easier so it made that two years really good a lot better than I thought would be this means you're going to focus on yourself and I got to hmpo called in 2014 where I started focusing on veteran support where my military mind have really installed that it was back in I rebooted as a Squatty again I was beginning to understand the problems that we've faced throughout I've reflected on my transition I looked at the where I struggle with the difficulties I faced I know could allowed me to explore that even further because there was a director called John McLaughlin and he's I work with him now in a new prison I'm working in is allowed me to focus on the veteran support within the prison industry but mainly open at the time and I looked at the difficulties that we've faced and I created a program called project TLS so when you come into prison you'll be given a sentence plan by your probation they'll say right you're in for drugs let's do a let's do a program on dealing with substance misuse for example urine for anger you're in for violence that's still an anger management these kind of things which you do of course you tick a box they lower your risk they release you yeah so I said to the team in charge of that which is intervention I said look are there any programs specifically designed for veterans that struggle with our transition or with our offender behavior and they came back after about a weakness and there's nothing there that's right so I was aware how much money could be paid in programs that overheard someone mentioning that what they were doing from a prison I thought that's not bad it's not quite cocaine money but it's not [ __ ] bad so I saw a whole I saw a gap there's no program of veterans it's good money I'm passionate about it so I said can I create a program they said well yeah go on then you just have to say yeah whatever mate yeah so freelance though I wrote projects here that's a 12 module program address in transition with 12 different modules produces documents there so there you go I've learned they've got back about daily I said when do you want to start delivery yeah so I'm ready to go now so did you find did you find that in the prisons there were quite a few veterans in the prisons who who have I struggled leaving the Army haven't decompressed if they come from war they've been violent back here or they've turned to drugs or they've been serving up or whatever have you found there was a number of veterans in Nick yeah probably five percent is it five percent yeah which doesn't sound a lot but it is a lot it's about four thousand yeah across the prison estate and that's mirrored in the community as well she got about up to maybe eight or nine thousand um you know maybe ten thousand caught up in the CGS which CGS is what criminal justice system okay but there's that's not accurate that's only if they declare that's a declared veteran so if they come in if they don't declare they've served you don't know they've served yeah a lot of people don't think they qualify as a veteran they think well you've had to have been to war or they might be too young to think that veteran is someone has served it's not some old Duffer around the shaken a British Legion yeah during poppy day it's anyone that served in the forces is classical event and if you have you got to see all these stats when you're in there they're like okay these this that this is what we want we want you to work on and what are you actually doing to help these veterans so I produce my loan starts by researching the wings and picking them up myself so I would go I would literally go around the wings and and pick them up from different departments say right have you served yes okay so I would then deliver the program to them where we cover the modules based on on risk substance misuse mental health money management various aspects of the transition where I struggled and I delivered of course to them highlighting their problems and their areas and their weaknesses their triggers and with that I then produce a carer plant abbreviation and I'll then support them when they come out so that was something I did in Okra for three years so during my last two years in Oakwood I was a category D prisoner which means you can get released on temporary license means you get to go out the gates how many what each day or yeah every day yeah I worked outside the community every day so part of that of what I did was making sure that the work had done inside the veterans I'd continuity so make sure that I don't just do it in prison I need to make sure I'm doing it on day release so that it's ready for when I come out of prison I need to build that business so that I hit the ground running so my role is included not just going home to my wife and my children but included going into military camps speaking to recruits going into a police station talking to police about that setting up veterans Champions and embrace for supporting veterans caught up on the streets looking at homelessness drug addicts and violence all these different things so I focus different areas which there are holes in the service there is other Charities doing the work but there's the national footprint it doesn't really cover the whole area so there's significant gaps nationally where we're not focused on people what I've learned over the last couple years of speaking to SAS SBS veterans is that the support system when people leave is really poor in this country site if you're American you're given a house you get every all sorts in the UK the the way I look at it is when you join the forces is that the the part of you which which should ask for help is trained out of you because as soon as weakness or failure so when things start going slightly South we do start go inside if you don't have the correct structure the correct um support networks when you come out if you don't have these things in place you can turn the drink to drugs mental health can kick in yeah and then you start to slide but what normally happens in in the forces when you start the slide you've got someone next you will pick you up so you've got a link we're going to be all right you don't get out of here yeah you slide so what happens then is you become isolated you detach from your support network because you're embarrassed because you're thinking I'm just a burden to them and then you don't ask well because you think that someone more qualified yeah common that is now now I'm fine I'm good I'm good that man there has lost his legs without lady there is who's been blown up give the help to them I'm all right but that helps out for everyone there's no Tria system it's there what was that feeling like when you're boys young boys come saw you in prison well that's a tough one because spoke to someone about this earliest day with the meeting about I worked with national prison radio and I think the damage that is done to your children is significantly worse than you would ever ever imagined because all that time for those 15 years well I got involved in this drugs I didn't have any children it's just me so my head was always just me I'm gearing myself up to be caught but well at some point I'm gonna get caught I don't know when don't know how it's going to happen but not for one moment that I think to consider how that would affect my children when their dad gets caught when their dad is taken away at the age of just turned seven and 13. young age impressionable age it's really bad and the first visits in prison was I think helped me to realize the damage that have been done because I was in Loudoun range they came in they're really happy to see me I was kind of like didn't want to see him in that environment because it's not the best environment and I remember that we had a good two-hour visit and it came to the end and it's very abrupt like everyone visits over here back to the wings that kind of thing it's not violent but it's just a brunt and my youngest stood there he said I don't want you to go I want to go with you and that broke my heart and I sat there thinking like he's crying I'm [ __ ] crying visit someone I thought to myself I can't do this I can't do it so what I did is I ended up boxing off my emotions compartmentalize them I just for any feelings I've got for people that I love and care about I cannot allow myself to feel that anymore because I won't I won't survive in this environment if I'm thinking about how they are which was great doing this sentence because it means I didn't have to worry about doing because I literally shut them out completely not school when you're coming well not school when they come and do visit you because there's no emotion yeah if I'm like a rock I'm sat there and I see that my kids I love them daily but I didn't feel that I didn't feel the love that that's back now it's really back now but when I first came out of jail I didn't have that attachment took a good while to re sort of rebond and when you come out of Nick when did you write the book Charlie 4-0 Charlie four kilos sorry four kilos I did that one I wish it was 24. yeah with any money Charlie Ford tell me about the book Charlie four kilo so basically I had a a game plan when I was getting arrested and going for the troll press the thoughts myself if I get away with this but then I'll run off into the sunset and I think I'm happy man if I get caught I consider a book I never quite knew what format it was going to take so when I was on my day releases working in the uh the visiting center outside the prison had access to a laptop and I was doing my program work and everything else I thought right in the [ __ ] book yeah so I sat there I just thought what should I call it I don't know I didn't it was going to be called The Lost Soldier because I just lost myself completely in in society when I came out and that was the name of it was to call it a lost Soldier so that's going to be the character is me so I wrote the book over a period of about a year when I was on day release and when covert kicked in when I got out and all my plans to go back into the prison did you come out July 2019. so the aim was to come out in 2019 give it six months cool off and the aim was arranged with a director to go back into the prison and deliver the program paid remember this loophole said about this this Gap in the market to go back in earn a good wage support veterans everyone's a winner happy day so that was planned for the first of April 2020. of course covert decides to come and kick us all in the ass so we go into lockdown phase and thinking we're locked down what should I do I thought [ __ ] I've got a bucket I could finish writing that book off so I cracked the book and I've got all of a publisher luckily there was a chap friend of the family written a book called course on Chopper ex police forceps bodyguard he said I've got a guys who's doing my book now I said I can introduce you so I went to I said this there's a first five chapters have a look see what you think of it he said this has got legs I said yeah we'll we'll do this we'll we'll do it for you so what's your word kind of so I'm on about 75 000 now so how far through I saw about halfway so I got to do three books so I start I want to start it in the middle is part two because I thought it's got to do in the middle and then I'm going to do a little bit Star Wars he said I'd advise you to try and cap it about 80 000 words because you go any more than that it gets a bit long-winded I thought yeah oh [ __ ] I've got loads left yet so well can you can you nip it in the bud and finish it early and do another part and make it a a four part series not a three parts there's a four yeah I can do that so I nipped it in the bud at the point where I just come at the hospital where I don't want to give it away but yeah I I shut it off a bit abruptly but it's a good finishing point so the aim was to call it the Lost Soldier he said but you've Googled that name I haven't used them there are a lot of different lost soldiers come up this is before the username on Tick Tock anything else he said you've got a movie called that there's a video game called that he said you're gonna get swamped there's a new title you're gonna get swamped they said why didn't you call it the subtart why do you call it Charlie four kilo this is a good name so it's got your phonetic off bet it's got military look to it and it designates the amount of stuff that you've got nicked with it's a great name good name where was the where is the point when you're getting next before you go in I just want to roll back a bit here were there any snitches grasses involved oh yeah plenty I know exactly who they are as well they know who they are yeah yeah how do you get to know who they are is there a boy have you read a report or no no no you can you can make educated guesses as to people that may or may not have been arrested around that time now I've three four people in the frame and the good thing about it is is I don't mind I don't care because I'm not the one that's got to live with that um what I went away I spent a good few years being really bitter because one because I was over a little money and secondly because I found out that we we've been informed our whole organization have been informed upon and I was really better about it understandably thinking I'm doing this time but I'm thinking to myself do me a favor because I'm I'm kind of getting on with it now and in 2015 I had this sort of like an epiphany I guess I thought to myself if I keep carrying this baggage of money that's owed and if I keep hating on the people that have informed on me because they've because because they've got no guts themselves to stand up and be convicted so I'm going to carry that for a very long time it weighs you down quite significantly it's a lot of weight to carry so I just literally binned it overnight I said right I said I'll write on the debts off and I'm just gonna these people that have snitched on me I'm just gonna forgive them I don't care I don't want to see him again have you seen these people since you've been out in the last couple years no do you know where they are no have you looked them up no I don't want to I'm not sure yeah they don't exist yeah they do they just don't exist anymore what sort of debt will you due enough for a good size semi-detached okay down here so it's enough yeah enough to start off but it's a male 300 Grand yeah roughly around that quarter okay yeah okay I thought myself it's a lot of money but at the same time as you can never had it yeah I never had the money just passing money around them which is a ticking time but I'm waiting to get nicked yeah essentially everyone I've had on the podcast is a ticking Time Bomb waiting to get nicked yeah and anyone listening out there if you're involved in the game your advice would be don't do it walk away now yeah because because it's not the knock-on effect of you you're getting a Nick you can switch your emotions off you're going you know I saw my two boys I was really upset saw my misses really upset my old man ain't gonna be happy because he's a copper yeah but I'm switching my emotions off you're right yeah you've got a nice bed you've got a telephone you've got the boys around you you've got three males are there you're playing a bit of sport yeah they're not going to affect for your poor kids at school knowing that their dad is being banged up and your wife and the mental torture and you not knowing whether your wife I don't know whether you being banged up is with your wife sleeping with someone else or whether your kids you don't know what's going on and the mental health the effect that is on their mental health is is devastating my youngest son's mental health was took a real bad knock as did mine I mean that's the the way that is meant off one is what has driven me towards support mental health now I mean I'm now qualified as an EMDR practitioner I I support people who struggle with PTSD that's what I do I go out there and one of one of the many things I do is because of seeing how how it changed my life with with PTSD and what I've been through I'll change my son's life I get I got qualified about a month ago and I'm I'm doing the same thing now but being involved in crime will never end well no it doesn't never ends well in the period those 15 years of being in crime do you think you're incredibly selfish yeah but you don't think you are I think even if you're flamboyant and sharing and enjoy not just enjoying that that money yourself you're still selfish because emotionally how could I ever be really really a proper dad for example when I'm focused on not getting caught how can I really provide them with a safe household when any minute the police could come through the dog which they did or don't actually come through the door which they could they never did but they could that's selfish alone that's not good for their development is it so it's a selfish industry and you become although I wouldn't class off as a selfish person I made selfish decisions yeah Rich this has been really fascinating thank you a really fascinating story going from army to a Chancellor to become a little raver to sell in a few pills to send okay into selling bigelops cocaine and then getting nicked yeah and I've seen this story time and time again where it just starts from that little bit of Percy for yourself yeah I'll get a freebie I can go the night out a little bit later I've served up there I've cut around the query then it's a grand and it's 10 grand 50 Grand all of a sudden they're just waiting for you yeah then you're doing time thinking it ain't worth anything 15 years mate long time doesn't finish till 2027 is that right then you're still paying off which means what means every month pop in great relationship probation are really good they support everything I'm doing you go abroad certain countries you can certain you can't I'll probably not have much chance of South America yeah or any Americans anymore uh I haven't tried to I've not asked I probably could yeah but I've not asked yet I'm too busy I'm too too busy working at the minute and I've not even thought about abroad yeah maybe skiing next year Rich where can people find you so websites are up so I've got website I am rich Jones I am rich jones.co.uk I've got my project project hyphen tls.co.uk that's the military one I'm on social media tick tock which is the big one if I'm not being banned tell me why you're getting bad on tick tock people get upset because I'm quite honest about my background so there are people who are professional to be an offender on other people's behalf yeah and everyone's get upset give me an example of why you're going to be banned on tiktok or why you have been banned on tick tock um I think if someone trolls me I'm not afraid to fire some [ __ ] back into them yeah okay and they will just get upset because I can be quite um open about how things are and I've managed to control that rent it back slightly but people pick up old posts yeah yeah you can't say that you'll promote I'm not throwing anything yeah I'm just being honest Richard lovely enjoyed it thank you honestly good man [Music] thank you

Channel: Dodge Woodall

Views: 122,623

Keywords: Dodge woodall, dodge, james english, eventful lives podcast, richard jones, Rich jones, crime, underworld, shaun attwood, true gordie, Military, army, sas, who dares wins, kingpin, culture club, krays, gangster, crime drama, dodge woodall podcast, drug boss, lewis clark, caught, gone wrong, prison, arrested, money, smuggling, smuggler, mystery podcast, london, gangster podcast, true crime, crimial, sas podcast, boxing, police, bodygaurd, legend movie, undercover, essex boys

Id: jktWVmt0O0Y

Length: 104min 17sec (6257 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 09 2023