There's a level of power that if you demand
you'll be told to sacrifice a human being, the blood of a human. Because what happens in the realm of the spirit,
blood carries speech. Let me tell you, people always talk about
wealth is spiritual, money is spiritual. But is it? Are you saying that there's a certain level
of money that you can't attain or that you can't reach? Yes. You can't be an atheist. Let me say that. You must have a certain path of spirituality. In our quest to understand the concept of
how money works we had to talk to someone who I believe we have done justice talking
to as far as this subject is concerned. That's why you might find someone is broke
the devil has been attacking and God teaches you tithing differently based on your maturity
level. Our guest for this episode is a man who needs
no introduction. Apostle T Mwangi is a lead youth mentor in
this country. And when you listen to him you know it's about
to get deep. When Benny Hinn came here people claimed that
accidents have started happening. Those are sacrifices. I would like you to respond to that but I
don't want you to start with that because we'll veer off. Let's just answer it in one sentence. And now that we're talking about this you
all know that Apostle T Mwangi is one man of God you can trust with research. A good example, 2 Kings Chapter 3. The Moabites were fighting against Israel. Things were heating up and Moab started losing. Then the king of Moab looked for a solution. He took his child and offered him at the walls
of the Moabites as a human sacrifice. The Israelites were filled with fear and they
retreated even though the prophet had already told them they were going to win. This also comes from a very personal point
because I asked about tithing and he told me that "I even stopped tithing and I'll tell
you why." And why should I learn by myself? Giving does not guarantee you heaven. Giving is a principle of your welfare. I trust that by the end of this episode we'll
have answered as many questions as possible that you may ever have had in your head about
money and the church and most importantly does money have a spiritual connection? In a day a man sacrificed animals worth 3
billion Kenyan shillings in a day burnt going on flames. There is something that man knew. I'm your host Dr King'ori and here's another
reason to stay subscribed to our channel. If you haven't subscribed this is now a very
good reason to hit Subscribe and turn on the notifications bell. This conversation has been borne from struggles
with giving in church. We have, let me call it a tribe of people
who believe nowadays you would rather give to the poor than give to church because you
may give to church and still get thrown into the fire. What's the difference between giving in church
and giving to the poor? Giving to the poor is called alms. And in fact giving to the poor is still a
Biblical giving. It's only that every giving attracts a certain
blessing and is also instructed with certain conditions and demands. The foundation of every giving is love. Whether you give to the poor, whether you
give to church, without love the giving is all useless. That is what Paul spoke about that even God
looks for a cheerful heart. So the moment we take love out of the equation
all the other things are left as rituals. So when we begin to know who God is and what
God has done for us then we'll never struggle to give because of his assignment. The second thing is that we have everything
in heaven except money. There's no money in heaven. The mystery is even Jesus' ministry was supported
by men. Jesus being God had people that supported
him. In the Book of Luke he talks of a woman called
Mary Magdalene, there was Claudia and there was Susanna. These are women who supported with their substance. When Jesus needed money he told Peter to go
and fish: a symbolic picture that any time the Kingdom is in need we need to get fish. So every fish comes with coin and coin is
not good for the fish. Yes. It's a pattern of the Kingdom. And when you say that every giving comes with
a different blessing doesn't that make giving transactional? It's not transactional. It's revelational. It's revelational. It's the same way today when people are paying
taxes every tax has what it caters for. You know, there are deductions that happen
when our salary comes. You've heard of NSSF, there's this other one
then there's pay as you earn. You know, every deduction is pegged on a certain
demand and every deduction serves a certain purpose. So the first thing is to get the background
of every giving. and you understand that when God is talking
about the welfare of his children, the Kingdom is a Kingdom meaning that a Kingdom has a
way of operation. so when I identify with that Kingdom now he
has created a system whereby blessings come through certain channels and so every giving
attracts a certain blessing. So can I study the blessings and give towards
the blessing I want? Let's say I just want a house and then I just
give towards a house so when I get a house I can go to church for free. Now this is the mystery and I'll tell you
why there are people who give and are blessed and there are people who don't give and are
still blessed or are still rich. because once we get that background it will help us understand
many things. A blessing when we talk of blessing, a blessing
is a status of wellness. It's a status of wellness. So when I say I'm blessed it is a status of
wellness. And anyone who is blessed has the potential
of being rich. Rich is a status of accumulation. And it is there. The Bible says Abraham blessed Jacob. And when Jacob was blessed he left the house... I mean Isaac. He left the house of his father with a staff
because he was running away from Esau but the man was blessed. Later in that chapter it says "And Laban discovered
that he's prospering because a man that is blessed is in his midst." So blessing is like a spiritual energy that
causes traction and attraction of material things. that's why a man can be blessed but he has
not yet manifested in terms of what he's attracting. Then riches is accumulation of things. So you can be rich through blessing but you
can also be rich through principles, disciplines and laws. That's why there are people who don't know
God and they have an accumulation. There are people who've never gone to church
who have big houses and cars. But if you sit down with them they have principles,
they have laws, they have disciplines that they apply and they are able to accumulate. Because even for someone who's blessed if
they manifest into riches whatever grows the riches is management, not prayer. And you can give and be blessed but there
are people who don't give and they're blessed. Yes. Are there people who are just cursed no matter
what you give you're still going to hell? No, no, no. I don't think so. And in fact let me tell you. Giving does not guarantee you heaven. Giving is a principle of your welfare. There are people who don't tithe, they don't
give any offering and they will make it to heaven. Going to heaven is not pegged by our giving. But now when you begin to understand the economy
of love any time you love somebody you don't shy away from spending. This is the mystery. When you love someone and you honor that person
it is amazing that there are people who feel privileged to give gifts to the president
yet he can afford. There was a time I was watching the president
in a car and you see someone straining really hard to give him a picture because they want
to show him that they honour him, they respect him. You know, you're sovereign, you're powerful
and I honor you. So that's why bibilical giving is 100% out
of revelation. And maybe we can even start talking about
tithe. The first tither God didn't demand. God didn't demand the first tithe. This is what happened. It is in the Book of Genesis and this is the
Genesis of tithing. If you look at the nations of what they used
to call the Near Far East Nation, the Mesopotamia culture, that is back in the days. Small nations used to give a tenth of their
harvest to big nations for protection and security. So a good example, Kenya could decide to tithe
to the US. So when we collect we give the US 10%. Then any time there is an attack over Kenya
it's not the work of Kenya to fight. America will defend us and protect us because
we have acknowledged the authority of America over our lives. That was the culture of the day. Now Abraham is coming from war and he went
to this war to rescue one cousin called Lot. So he went to rescue Lot and he defeated all
the kings. It was a battle of around nine kings. So that means in Abraham's territory there
was no king who he could tithe because he had beaten them all. So there's no king who could give Abraham
protection. But in that journey he meets the king of Salem. And then the king of Salem gave him wine and
bread. And after receiving wine and bread he gave
him a tenth. The king of Salem never requested for the
tenth but the king of Salem gave him wine and bread. And that King is an everlasting king. Of course that's Jesus. So the idea is that he understood the culture
of tithing. So Abraham met a king higher than the kings
of Israel. And bread represents the word of God. Wine represents the Holy Spirit. So where you receive bread and wine you are
nourished spiritually. That's where you take your tithe. So it was out of number one revelation not
obligation. He realized this is a sovereign king, this
is a majestic king, this is a great king, this is a king that has given me victory so
let me offer a tenth as a sign of worship. But the revelation was from today my protection
will come from this king. That's why later in Malachi he comes and says,
"Test me with these things and see if I won't open the windows of heaven and if I won't
protect your harvest from the devil." Because the pattern was you tithe to a bigger
king and that superior sovereign king any time you're attacked will come. So the work of rebuking the devil was the
work of the superior king. So when you take your tithe to a children's
home it means that you've bypassed the system of divine protection. And two things happen. The Bible says "I will open the windows of
heaven." The first time the windows of heaven were
opened was during the floods. Because if you read Genesis 6 the Bible says
God opened the vaults and He opened the windows of heaven. The second time we hear about the windows
of heaven is when there was drought and famine in Samaria in 2 Kings Chapter 6 and 7 to a
point that people were eating the dropping of chicken and heads of donkeys. It was so severe that mothers were eating
their children. And Elijah said "Tomorrow the economy will
shift." One handler said "Even if the windows of heaven
are opened it cannot shift." So what do the windows of heaven represent? They represent supernatural supply. So tithing is a bibilical principle. You apply it, you get the blessings and the
benefits. You refuse to apply it, you'll still go to
heaven but your welfare in the economy of Christiandom will be affected. You can tithe and still go to heaven? Yes. Does your not tithing change your experience
in heaven? Like do you think heaven there's a place for
people who used to eat their tithe? At the end of the day the goal is to go to
heaven. I'm in heaven now but I didn't give tithe. It will only affect what I call your welfare
on Earth. That's why you find that someone is broke,
they're being attacked by the devil. Some time back I was laughing with my friends
because I remembered... And God teaches you tithing differently based
on your maturity level. Because if giving is handled by a child it
becomes deadly. You see how you buy a child biscuits and you
pay with 1000 shillings, get your change of 900 and put it in your pocket. And then when you ask for it they take it
and hide it and say, "No, I'm not giving you. It's mine." That's how sometimes we behave before God. But if you buy a grownup something and then
ask them for a taste they'll share it with you. Because giving also demands maturity spiritually. Paul even wrote to the Corinths and told them,
"I don't want to a burden to you" because the church of Corinthians was a baby child. They hadn't matured in Godly matters. So if you start meeting them with giving you'll
offend them. So what has happened today is we have baby
christians but the first curriculum is giving. So the first thing they feel is "These are
my things. Why do you want my things?" But when people mature in God... Because there was church called the Church
of Macedonia. Paul appreciated and said they give out of
their lack. That means those are not people who have more,
but they've understood the intensity and the need for the things of God that they've started
giving out of their lack. Paul wrote to the Church of Philippi and told
them "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches and Glory because the things
you gave Epaphroditus..." That was a small church but they understood
the need of Paul's missionary assignment and missionary journey. They were mature. But to the church in Corinth he told them,
"I had to rob other churches to reach you." And if you check, Corinth was the one with
crises and scandals. There was even a case of one person who was
committing incest. He was sleeping with one of his relatives
and Paul heard about that story. God said that? What? That he had to rob other churches? Yes. God? Paul wrote it himself and said, "I've had
to rob." He meant that it's not that he went and literally
robbed them. But what he's trying to say is "People gave
offerings to support my mission. So it's like I've robbed them by taking what
they have so that I can come here to you because I don't want to be a burden to you. I want to sort out my own accommodation and
food. I'm just here to preach to you. In fact if you're hungry I can even give you
food." But what happens is that at that level there's
some transaction and some blessing that you miss out on. Have you ever heard people asking why America
has prospered and yet we pray hard and sometimes we don't prosper? America was so significant in financing missionaries
up to date. The law of America states that when you give
your money to charity and you give your money to spiritual places like churches for activities
you're exempted from tax. So it means that for the good work that America
did long ago they're still reaping the benefits now? This is a principle. Even a drunkard who helps someone in need,
whether they know God or not, it's a principle. So you could actually have a good life based
on the offering you gave in Sunday school? It's a principle okay. That's why you'll find majority... Let me even mention it. If you study... And this is not to bring any religious war. If you study the Quran, you know Islam began
500 years after Christianity and there's a lot of similarity of the Quran especially
the Old Testament, the Levitical order. That's where you find sacrifices and offerings. If you study what Islam practices is 100%
or let me say 80%-90% what people might consider Judaism. And Judaism is 100% some of the principles
and laws that are in the Old Testament. Now majority of the millionaires globally
are Jews. Majority of the millionaires. The current economic revolution of wealth
is in the Middle East. You have a city like Dubai. In less than 20 years they've developed a
city out of a desert. Look at Qatar. Look at Saudi Arabia. There is what they're calling the Arab Revolution. But you go to them they're doing business
guided by the Quran. When you study the Quran and study some of
the Old Testament requests and demands they're there. These people are literally using what believers
read and don't practice. So we are intellectual. We call them Bible intellects but no results. But there are Bible practitioners who have
results. Bible practitioners who have results. Yes. This is someone who has studied and made a
decision. I have relatives who are Muslims and I'm telling
you the truth, their business is controlled by the Quran. When a Muslim loans you 100 and you make profit
and you make interest he won't take interest. You'll pay him back 100. They don't believe in making money with their
own especially if you are a Muslim, a brother. And it's in the Levitical law that you don't
take advantage of a brother. If you're in need and I give you 100,000,
if you make any profit then that's yours. Even to a level where the interest you get
from money you've put in the bank, a Somali would take it to a children's home. I'll have to bring this up with someone who
understands profit, someone who works in that field. Because why would I give someone 100 shillings
and you return 100 shillings? Where is the business in that? Because for them their business is they are
first controlled by the scripture, not laws of economics. They first identify as members of that Kingdom. So many believers have not identified as members
of this Kingdom. They are very liberal and they are very radical,
they are very opinionistic that they want to help the Bible explain some stuff. The moment you pick the Bible and you know
this is the Word of God and apply it no matter your reasoning and all these things, results
are automatic. You've mentioned giving and maturity in the
same sentence. Yes. We're having this conversation so that we
can learn with our audience. Personally I asked you a question. I needed to understand tithing. I wanted to give tithe but you told me that
before I give tithe I'll have to understand what it means. I asked you what it means and you told me
that's a story for another day. It needs time, right? Yes. Was that a polite way to tell me that I'm
still spiritually imature? No, no, no. I've always been very sensitive to help people
not to be caught up in rituals but to be caught up in revelations. Because you might be aware that you're supposed
to tithe and you're faithful but you dont know what tithing is. So even the blessings of tithing you're not
aware of them. So you're faithful and you're doing the "ritual"
because if there's no revelation it becomes a ritual. but the moment you do it out of revelation
whether the pastor notices or not, you can even send it through M-Pesa because you know
you've done your part. Because out of revelation I'm tithing to God. It's just that God doesn't come and say, "Hey,
where's the tithe?" God has usually planted someone to receive
tithe on his behalf. In Hebrews it says, "Here men receive tithes
but there He receives." So when I stretch out my hand to receive your
tithe, Heaven has stretched. Now the challenge is why were people tithing? Remember God has made a Kingdom. This is a whole government. And God has put it in a way that government
is supposed to be self sustaining. Tithe was given for three reasons. One so that there was food in the storehouse. And that food is what the Levites were eating. That was what the Levites ate. When they were distributing the land of Canaan
the Levites were not given an inheritance so the Lord said, "I will bless the 11 tribes. And once I bless you a tenth should go to
my house so that in that house there will be food. And the first partakers of that meal are the
Levites because they don't have an inheritance." And He told them, "Don't forget the Levites
in your midst." The second thing and that was the understanding
of Israel, it is the Lord who gave them the rains. There was the latter rain and the former rain. It is the Lord who gave them the ground Canaan. It is the Lord who gave them the seed. so 100% the Lord provided. And he was just demanding that "You take a
tenth and take to my house." It's as if right now you give your child 1,000
shillings and tell them to give 100 shillings to so-and-so and instead they use it. You see it's disobedience because you're the
one who gave them that money. So now naturally men can apply effort to what
they are doing. But there are people who know that they know
that they know where I am, what I'm earning, what I got this is 100% God. Someone else would wear a t-shirt written
"blood, sweat and tears" because they believe God did nothing and they came up with all
the systems and strategies on their own. So there people, some of us know where we
are, if we look at time and what God has done we know it's definitely God. So you even give that tenth willingly. This can only be God. So the second thing about tithing was to help
the poor. It was meant to help the poor. And the third thing was to help refugees. That was the purpose of tithing. It was to help the poor, and part of the poor
were the widows. And in the book of Timothy Paul says real
widows. So if you're a widow and your relatives can
support you they should. But if you're a real widow and you don't have
a husband, because economically the man was the breadwinner. So if you don't have a husband and you don't
have anyone to support you then that tithe was meant to help you. The widow, the poor and refugees. Then from the tithe that was brought to the
Levites, they would take something called tithe of tithes. So from the 10% that everyone has contributed
you take 10% and take to the High Priest. Before you proceed, in the tithe for widows
the Lord strategically or specifically ordered or asked people to give tithe to help widows? It was when the storehouse was full. Remember this was an agricultural economy. People would bring their animals and their
harvest. So that's why you hear the word storehouse. So when the storehouse was full you knew who
the widows in your community were. And the church could take care of that widow. But why would God take her husband if He knew
she would suffer without the husband and start eating the tithe? You see it's not that she's eating the tithe. In the nature of life we'll all die. It's not that God has taken someone away. Everyone will finish their work here and we'll
die. And no one has ever applied for widowhood. Her husband has finished his work here and
it's time for him to exit. Your time will also come and it'll be time
for you to exit. So God knows that even in your widowhood you
shouldn't suffer because if He blesses His people there'll be enough supply. Even though you don't have a husband, there'll
be supply in the storehouse. So the moment that there's no supply the Levite
has no food, the people in need have no food and all that. And they say in Kenya it's only around between
14% to 24% who tithe and not faithfully. That's who tithe. America was under 3% of people? Yes. If the church took the governmental system
and the church became the church terms of we received tithes and we divided them the
way they're meant to be divided we would never hear a story of a refugee and there would
never be people who were struggling. Because you can imagine if every congregation
took care of their needy and if every congregation was responsible through tithing. So now that people aren't tithing even the
pastor doesn't have anything to eat. So that pastor has to start fundraising. That's why they sell you things because they're
just trying to survive. Because the system that was put in place for
him to feed has been taken out yet there's demand for him to be in church Monday to Friday. Yeah. There's something you said about people who
tithe but they don't know the blessing of tithe. Yes. Does this mean that if you understand the
blessing of tithing it's as though God is in your debt? Like "God, I tithed in January and I haven't
gotten the blessing." Is that how the system works? The first thing we don't tithe out of nothing. We tithe out of blessing. Let's say I get a job and get paid, which
means God provided that job for me. So this earning is a blessing to me. So if I don't have a job then I shouldn't
have to tithe because I don't have anything to give. So we don't tithe from nothing. We tithe from blessing. God has blessed me and I take a portion and
honor Him with that portion. So God will always bless us according to our
needs. This is not a pyramid scheme, like I tithed
10,000 so you're supposed to give me back 100,000. You can tithe and get a wife. How much is a wife? Because God blesses you according to the needs
that are in your life. It is that specific need that you're looking
for. That's why the Bible says He will meet us
at the point of our needs. The second thing the blessing of tithing is
protection. God rebukes the devil. I learned my lesson the hard way. There's a time when if I wasn't faithful with
tithe I'd just find things going wrong. There's a time I bought a phone with the money
I was supposed to tithe and then I was stopped by the city council. I was going to preach over lunch hour and
they stopped me and gave me a 5,000 shilling fine. As I was on the way to get my car from where
they had impounded it my new phone was stolen. When I thought about it I realized that the
amount I hadn't tithed was the same amount I'd spent on the phone. Another time I was leaving a worship night
and I had parked outside. The spare wheel was stolen. When I calculated the cost of replacing it... So I started seeing literally if I'm not faithful... And God teaches you differently. My lectures might not be the same as yours. And when I activated the system of tithing
I discovered there are levels of attacks that weren't happening to me because I activated
a principle of divine protection. I was coming from a worship night where we
had been praying but you see what was supposed to shield my wealth was the tithe. Because He said he'll rebuke the devil. So prayer at that level doesn't have the capacity
to do the job that tithe is supposed to do. So now that you understand tithing on that
level and you know let's say for example you've spent the money for tithe and then you find
your spare wheel stolen you don't even bother looking for suspects? You're just like it's God. You just calculate for yourself. Your spirit just gets conviction and you tell
yourself... Because you know there's that point of confusion
that God has promised He'll protect me so why are my things being attacked? You know this is my Father. Why am I being attacked? You just get conviction. And there's someone I argued with because
some people in the church don't believe in tithing. So we really argued and he threw some scriptures
at me. I told him, you know what, let's go into prayer
and ask God "what is your will on tithing?" Because neither of us wrote the Bible. So we can't say you're right and I'm wrong. And literally I took time and I told a few
people, you know what, there's this new teaching that says tithing is from the Old Testament. Let's pray so that we can find out if we're
teaching people errors or whether God has authenticated it. So we went into prayer and the first answer
was very simple. Every giving should be backed by love. That's the core business. All giving must be from a cheerful and a loving
heart. We give because we love God. We give because we love God. There's a lady who broke an alabaster jar
at Jesus' feet that was worth one year's salary, Mary Magdalene. Everyone complained, even the disciplines. They asked her why she would pour the oil
at Jesus' feet when the money could have been used to help the needy. Jesus looked at them and said, "This woman
knows something you don't." So it is revelation that made her break the
alabaster jar. So you can't understand people's commitment
in giving until you understand the revelation that they have. You can't know how far God has brought someone. And that's why the people who tithe are in
what looks like a cult. You can't convince them. They've seen it working so they know the system
isn't a myth. It's real. The second thing, God will tell us that this
attack is not an attack on the giving. It's an attack on the treasury of the church. Because when the church has no money vision
is not a problem. Someone said where there is no vision people
perish but where there are no people the vision perishes. So you find that people have good ideas, concepts
that can change the nation but there are no resources. So how do they implement that? The other day the Catholic Church came together
and told the government to leave their schools alone because they're trying to protect a
heritage of things they've been teaching children. They feel that this curriculum has some benefits. So if churches are not empowered enough even
to open schools and hospitals because there's that self entitlement then there's a problem. So God said this is an attack on the treasury. And I looked at it. Benny Hinn had a meeting here. It costed almost $1 million to get the kind
of equipments, to get the kind of stadium and all that. That was supposed to be the budget. But Benny Hinn came and he said that a lot
of things were not necessary. Now you see Benny Hinn was ready to pay all
that money because he's come from a place where people are willing to support the mission. You know guys will give and say, "Go and preach." But it reached a point that Kenyan Bishops
said for how long will people be coming to our land and give us money to plan an event
and then they go with the blessing and we're left with the gospel? They said this time we want to pay the price. Now that's a meeting. Some people will argue and say it was too
much money. Do you know that one ODM meeting would cost
15 million and they used to have meetings daily during the campaign season? No one complains. People would go to Serena and buy one plate
at a million to support a man to sit on a throne for 5 years. But when it comes to things to do with the
Kingdom there's a lot of riot, a lot of complaint. But there is no other way people will listen
to the gospel if someone won't go and share it and there is no other way. Money will never rain from heaven. God has created a system. So when the treasury is attacked the next
thing is we'll be at the mercies of politicians. The next thing the church will be built by
money from strange sources. And when you look at that direction that's
where it looks like the church is going. So the second thing God said it's an attack
on the treasury. Revivals are expensive. Doing meetings. I do high school missions. We've bought tents and all that. Whatever we bought costed us 60 million. If I was to do a tent meeting one day in a
high school it will not cost me less than 3 million. And that's preaching to the youth. People will complain on Twitter about what's
going on in high schools but someone is talking to them. So it's expensive to preach the gospel and
one of the systems is the system of giving. But people don't see it until society starts
crumbling. That's when people ask what is happening. Number three, God said giving is a product
of teaching and revelation. The moment we don't teach the Bible the whole
Council of God and we focus on giving only. There is more to God than offering. So there are people who decided they'll give
Monday to Monday. And I won't deny there are people who take
advantage in some churches. We won't run away from that. There are people who collect offering, put
it in their boot and count it in their bedroom. They are there. But I'll tell you the truth, that's not the
majority. They have systems and all that. So there are those debates about tithing but
I believe tithing for me is in the Bible and it's one of the requirements for raising resources
for the work of God and for the welfare of the people. And God blesses people so that out of their
blessing they're able to partner with His work. Thank you for that explanation. You mentioned Benny Hinn and I know if I ask
you about that now we'll veer off but I want you to make a mental note. When Benny Hinn came people said accidents
have started happening, those are sacrifices. I would like you to respond to that. But I don't want you to talk about it now
because we'll veer off. Let's just answer it in one sentence. What has been happening... Do you remember when we had COVID? There were daily announcements that people
had died. Have you ever asked yourself how COVID ended? The moment they toned down the announcements
about how many people had died psychologically people started healing. If today we start broadcasting how many people
are dying from malaria you would think the world is ending. So sometimes things happen that make us narrow
down and zoom in. "Someone was hit by a motorbike and they died." It looks like that's the dominating news. And Kenya has those waves where this is happening
and this is happening. There are no sacrifices of the...? Spiritually, the people who understand spirituality,
deep spirituality, and this isn't even in the Bible. If you study the occult you'll see that there
are specific months for sacrifice. There are seasons spiritually that are seasons
to release blessing. And there are seasons spiritually where you'll
find there's a lot warfare in the spirit. And the season around April is usually a very
contentious season. And you know people can say anything. People can say anything. When a man of God comes in town people... But I can tell you these were not sacrifices. I'll tell you one thing. Before the meeting... And this wasn't captured. Do you know there was a time people prayed
at Nyayo and birds died literally. Like birds? Yes. Now, anyone who understands what we call monitoring
spirits, they usually manifest as birds sometimes or... Monitoring spirits? Yes. You can find there's an owl that just comes
to your place at a certain time. There's a time I was visited by an owl and
a bat. At 7 o'clock it would just come and hang from
my door. Then at midnight I'd see an owl watching the
house. And when we started getting sick I knew something
was following us. So those are called monitoring spirits. They prayed at Nyayo and they collapsed, not
one, not two, not three. It wasn't in the news. And it's just those birds, not chicken? Not those. There were some strange birds that were around
there, not the chicken. No. As in monitoring spirits are usually just
in those birds? You can't find a monitoring spirit in a chicken? We need to clarify that. What happens a spirit just needs a being,
a body. A spirit is a disembodied spirit. It's a disembodied being. It doesn't have a body. Those are monitoring? So monitoring is something that's been sent
to monitor you. Like the devil's CCTV? Yes, exactly. Yes. So you'll find sometimes problems just come
up when you're just about to do something you had planned to do because there's something
monitoring you. So it's like every move is targeted. It's like spiritual GPS. Okay, spirituality is deep and sometimes when
you go in depth it sounds made up. So that was not covered. The kind of operation that happened there... You know any time this is corporate faith,
corporate gathering, corporate unity. The kind of operations that happen there are
usually serious. That's fine. So in fact this was another level of tithe
offering. What's the difference between tithe offering
and sacrifices? Okay let me now go there. There are almost around five givings that
exist. There are tithes, alms, first fruit, offering
and sacrifices. Those are five. Tithe, alms, first fruit, offerings and sacrifices. Now we've already explained tithe. It's a tenth of your earning to get protection
and also supernatural supply. Alms are the money you give to the poor and
it's not dictated. But the Bible says he that gives the poor
owns God. Because when you help someone in need they
don't see a human being. They see God. If you pay someone's school fees today they'll
say God has come through. Because if they were really waiting for something
to happen they will see God. And that's why that giving of alms is what
the Bible says never let the left see what the right is giving. Because you don't give alms on Kodak moments. Those are not alms. That's flossing. If you're helping the poor you don't need
to take a picture of them. Those people never chose to be there. And even in churches I have a problem sometimes
when you call people who are struggling and give them a cheque in church. They never choose to be there. Even us as kings if we told our story, we
used to be broke. We could have also been there. But who knew about our destinies? Imagine going back 10 years and you saw a
pastor who wants to show their congregation that they do good work so we must parade the
poverty of people and begin to show that we are sympathetic. That is hypocrisy. That's why God said whatever the left should
never know what the right gives. If I decided to support a child today that
should remain between me, the child and God. But today churches are making tremendous mileage
because at the end of the day it is a PR stunt. So alms is a secret. It's you have the heart of God. You want to help but no shouting. It's not time for Kodak and all that. Sometimes for accountability if people give
you money, like if we were fundraising here to send 10 children to school for accountability
we can show we have paid in this school, we can show the uniforms and the suitcases. But for integrity of humanity preserve the
face. this is a human being who never chose to be
where they are. Then number three is offerings. This is something you give willingly. You offer. You just offer. You might even forget. I might ask you how much you gave on Sunday
and you don't remember because it is freely, it is willing and it is all that. And then now you come to first fruit. First fruit was when you have 100 mango trees
but 10 have ripened. You take those ripe ones, select the best,
you put it in a basket and you take it to the temple one as a thanksgiving, two as a
first fruit. So first fruit was a thanksgiving. What was the reason of the first fruit? It was to thank God for harvest. Because the people believed that God is the
God of the harvest. Sowing is man's effort. But it takes a lot of God for there to be
a guaranteed harvest. And that's where God gives rains and everything
at His time. So when they harvested... And the second thing, they connected the harvest
to God to say "Even these 90 will be harvested. We thank you for what we've harvested but
even these 90 will be harvested." So sometimes people get a promotion, they
get a salary increment and they take it back to God to say thank you for the promotion. Because I said there are people who rise by
effort, there are people who rise by prayer. If someone knows they completely believed
in God to open this door and it's definitely God who opened it, I tell you the truth he
will not struggle to give. But if you bribed the system and slept with
the boss to get your promotion you'll go to the club and buy everyone drinks because it's
manmade, you know? But there are those who literally know this
is 100% God. Then now there is a sacrifice. Sacrifice is a spiritual language. You can't have a sacrifice without an altar. So there must be an altar. There must be something to be offered. Sacrifices alter spiritual realms. And that's why anyone who understands... A sacrifice can manipulate. The word is manipulate, not just alter. It can manipulate the realm of the spirit. A good example 2 Kings chapter 3. The Moabites were fighting against Israel. Things were heating up and Moab started losing. Then the king of Moab looked for a solution. He took his child and offered him at the walls
of the Moabites as a human sacrifice. The Israelites were filled with fear and they
retreated even though the prophet had already told them they were going to win. The language of sacrifice is not in the realm
of riches. It's in the realm of wealth. So it's true that we have these things in
the underworld where you've been asked to give your firstborn child, to sacrifice your
child. These things actually are there? It's true. The reason why... There are two things that the underworld usually
demand. When they begin to ask for the things you
love is to dehumanize you. Loyalty cannot be there until you lose a part
of you. In the Bible for a man to serve a king he
was made a eunuch. The man would be castrated so that he can
serve the king so that nothing would come out. There's a difference between castration and
circumcision? Yes. Castration is the whole thing? Castration is the crushing of your balls. Circumcision is the cutting of your foreskin. So castration simply means there's no viability. You can't give birth. And why did they do that? It was the law of the system by that time
both secular. If you served the king you had to be castrated
so that you don't pass your seed. Lest you sleep with royal family you don't
bring your common seed to the royal family. The second thing was so that you can be loyal
to the throne. Because there are things that disrupt our
loyalty. You see right now if I get a call and they
tell me my child is sick this show would end because my loyalty is scattered. So for the people who are in the dark world
the devil demands loyalty. And part of that is to dehumanize you, is
to take what you love so that you can do what he wants because you have paid the price. That's the first level. The second level is being asked for something
you love that is painful because they have to work on your appetite and your hunger. How bad do you want this thing? That's why you'll find people who are rich
through demonic powers and they will never help anyone in their family. Someone can have many cars but you look at
the status of their parents they are languishing because that man was dehumanized. The devil does not give you anything to support
communities. It must be used in the confinement of his
agenda. And people sacrifice. You know you can sacrifice stuff, you can
sacrifice self, you can sacrifice in terms of time. People sacrifice to gain wealth. That's why I told you the level of riches
is about principles, laws and disciplines. The level of wealth is spiritual. I'll tell you, the Freemasons have studied
Solomon as a specimen. That's why when you rise to a certain level
in the Freemasons you're given something they call the Solomonic ring because they believe
Solomon had control over 72 demons and these demons were responsible for his wealth creation. The specimen because globally there is no
man that has broken the record of Solomon. In the day of Solomon gold was like dust and
silver. It was like dust. Economies today measure wealth with gold bars. In the days of Solomon gold was like dust
to a point the wheels of his chariots were made of gold. That's how useless gold was. So globally there is no man that has broken. The man was wise, the man was wealthy, the
man was influential. No man individually has broken and will break
the record of Solomon. Are you saying he was not a man of God? He was a man of God. But he controlled 12 demons? Now that is according to the Freemason mythology. They believe. If you ask me spiritually the man must have
overcome every spirit that hinders men from breaking ceilings. But if another one reads because spirituality
when I overcome... In spirituality when I'm above in a certain
rank and Spirits are under me they will take my orders. But are you saying that there's a certain
level of money that you can't attain or that you can't reach. Yes. You can't be an atheist. Let me say that. You must have a certain path of spirituality. That's why I'm saying there's a certain level
of money you cannot attain by working hard? Yes. Like you have applied the principles of borrowing,
investing. That is in riches. I've told you riches is accumulation. Five cars, five houses, whatever. That one is there. I've sat down with influential people and
I tell you the truth there is a ceiling you break and you cannot ignore spirituality. Yes. What is this ceiling? That's the ceiling of wealth. Wealth comes with so many things. Wealth isn't accumulation. Wealth includes political influence, wealth
includes economic influence, wealth includes social influence, wealth includes academic
influence, wealth includes spiritual influence. You can't be wealthy if those five influences
are not working. And even just having social influence that
you can stand and influence people there is a backup. People don't just love people. I tell you there is a realm you can't be an
atheist. You know on this show it's all about understanding
how money works, right? Let me tell you and that's why I said go today
to the wealthy Arab Nations. Their spirituality is Islam. It is not in a vacuum. Go to China their spirituality is Buddhism. Those people believe in levels of meditation. In meditation there's a level where people
open the third eye, they open the chakras. They're able to meditate until they enter
a certain realm spiritually. And that's why you hear people talking about,
you know, this realm is for relaxing and attracting positive energies, inspiration, creativities. That is spirituality. There is no vacuum when it comes to wealth. And that's why when you hear us Christians
debating about tithe, first fruit and all that, there are people who've come from that
realm, the level of sacrifices they are giving. If you study Solomon the Bible says when God
visited him He asked him, "What do you want?" He said, "Give me wisdom to lead your people." God told him, "I won't give you only wisdom. I'll give you wealth because they go together." That wisdom is beyond academic wisdom. It's understanding of a very high level. It's spiritual understanding. And when he built a temple the Bible says
Solomon sacrificed, 2 Chronicles 7, until the altar could not hold the sacrifices on
the altar and the glory of God fell and no priest could minister before the Lord. The intensity of sacrifice we counted it one
day in church it was in a day a man sacrificed animals worth 3 billion Kenyan shillings in
a day, burned, going on flames. There's something that man knew. Burning like they will eat the meat like Kamakis
later or just burning for the sake of burning? There was a time I was in Dubai and I met
some people, they were around 15, wearing white towels. They didn't have anything else. They just tied a towel and wore sandals. They looked like very important people. Something told me in my spirit this is a spiritual
operation. Can you imagine being a billionaire and you've
been told that to sustain a certain level of power you need to go to the airport wearing
these ritual clothes and stay like that until you land in your country? There are people who make covenants. I know there's a guy just here in Tanzania. His covenant was very simple: you'll become
rich but don't ever wear shoes. That guy does not wear shoes. So when we look at the reason why majority
of us are average it's because we play around with spirituality. People sleep in graveyards just to gain power. People are willing to do anything. That's what we call witchcraft, right? Or there's witchcraft and also spiritual connections? What happens it's beyond. There's a place in Satanism called occultism. In occultism whenever you want something you
become connected to a certain occultic order. So if I want riches and influence I'll be
connected to an occultic order and then I'll be trained on what sacrifices to offer and
demands that I need to perform, the operations I'm supposed to perform. So I could be told to wake up everyday at
3 a.m. and face north and chant certain words 700 times. And people wake up? If you don't do it they'll know. The network feels incomplete. And you can even die. Because that's the demand to sustain the spirit
that gives you influence. And that's how you can even be told to come
and give a sacrifice in a certain area. Like right now many young people are into
money rituals. There are people who you see always have money
even though you know they don't come from a rich background. Aren't they just running forex scams? It's not forex. Sometimes it's money rituals. It's money rituals. So what do Christians sacrifice when other
people are sacrificing their children? That's where now the patterns of scripture
come. Now you see for us there's nothing we can
sacrifice because Jesus became the best sacrifice. So once we start understanding about altars
and sacrifice, you know bulls, cows, humans, all of them are in different levels. If humans are also considered, you've grouped
them with cows, like these are sacrifices. Boss, there's a level of power that if you
demand you'll be told to sacrifice a human being, the blood of a human. Because what happens in the realm of the spirit
blood carries speech. Let me explain. When someone goes to a witchdoctor and is
asked to provide a chicken there's no issue with the chicken itself. The issue is with its blood. That blood is what they use. So what they will do... So that's someone who just wants a little
money. Maybe they just want a simple operation. Like, "King'ori has a new show and we don't
want it to be impactful," so he's told to bring three chickens. So they're caught and he says, "When this
blood spills, as we shed this blood the man will not have influence." So as it's slaughtered he gives speech to
the blood. So now that blood is what speaks in the spiritual
realm. So when you start looking at ranks of bulls
and all that that's how it goes. Now the highest blood that someone can shed
is the blood of a person. That's why areas that have a lot of political
war, deaths you study them spiritually they're very dark. It's places with a lot of conflict. Places where people die daily. That blood has a lot of authority in the realm
of the spirit demonically. When you sacrifice someone are they given
a job or they have a responsibility to haunt the person who killed them? What happens if you go to a spiritualist you
tell them your problems. When you tell them your problems they know
what kind of a spirit to summon. Every spirit has a different demand. So you might demand something of a very high
order and you're told, "Whatever you've demanded for me to summon this spirit there's a certain
ritual we must perform." So this is the good story and this is why
Christians we are so blessed. Because among all the bloods the blood of
a human being is the highest. And the altar that bears human blood is a
very strong altar. Now as a Christian I cannot shed any blood. Why? Because when Jesus died what was needed from
Jesus was the blood. It's blood. That's why when you read, Jesus was called
the Passover lamb. The only way to get blood from a Passover
lamb was by hanging it from hooks. The only way to get blood from Jesus was to
hang Him on a cross on hooks to drain all the blood. That's why the Bible says the blood of Jesus
speaketh better things than the blood of bulls and the blood of Abel. Because Abel was the first innocent man to
be killed by his brother Cain. So when we look at the realm, even if you
tell me you've sacrificed 100 cows to stop me I won't be afraid. I'll identify with the blood that was spilled
on my behalf and the altar that I identify with. Salvation is beyond going to church and clapping
your hands and all that. That's why you hear people saying they cover
themselves with the blood of Christ. So that's actually a threat? That someone will make a sacrifice against
you? That's actually...? Boss, have you ever heard someone saying,
"Watch me." That person can go to their spiritualist and
they'll do things to you if you don't have a cover. There are people who cover themselves with
other spiritualists. Like there's a funeral that happened somewhere
in Western. A spirtualist had sent his powers to make
someone sick. The person went to another spiritualist. That spiritualist made the other one die. He bypassed whatever the first one had done? Yeah. It was power for power. At the funeral for the one who died, the other
spiritualist came up and said, "Don't mess with me. This is my work," and he left. Let me tell you, when you go deep into Western
you'll understand these things. People in the city thinks these things are
just stories. If you go to Western, Kisumu, Mombasa, there
are areas. There are territories. If you go to Embu there are places deep in
there, if you go to Kitui. You'll get to learn boss, you can't touch
some of these grandmothers. They have a certain authority. They'll just hit some stones together and
confuse your destiny. So until you understand spirituality from
the Bible that's what gives us an advantage. That's why I told you when I look at what
God has done for me, that I have His blood to overcome blood of occultic, satanist, anyone. Becauase I've seen it work. I've seen in the name of Jesus someone who
was demon possessed be subdued until they even tell you, "We submit." And you know this thing has authority. That's what I was thinking about when you
explained this story. Yes of course it's very fascinating when you
talk about all these things. I think I couldn't avoid just thinking of
now that you know all these things have you ever met demons? A lot. A lot. They even appear in the house. In your house? Like you can just be relaxing and then you
see an evil spirit? It's called unlocking spiritual levels. Like you've unlocked a level where we can
be relaxing and there's demons around but you can see them? Of course. The spiritual realm needs sight. There was a time Mammon visited me. Mammon is a spirit. It visited me because at that time we were
working on a project in church and people weren't really giving enough to support us. So I told people that in the next month I
would teach about giving so that at least they could start giving. But it made me question whether I should change
what I preach so that I can preach and make people give? I felt condemned. Then a few days I felt the Holy Spirit telling
me to teach about Jesus. Don't change your message just because of
a church project. Then I heard a very loud voice telling me
that many pastors have been hijacked because of projects. They were happy and they loved God when they
were in a church made of ironsheet. Once they started building a concrete church
they started preaching about giving because they wanted to finish the project. And so I went to church and told people, "Give
what you want. You don't have to if you don't want to. I know this project belongs to God." That night I saw something looking at me angrily. Because that was a trap and it's only that
God saved me. So sometimes you can wake up in the night
and just sense a demonic presence in the room. Especially sometimes if you've gone to minister
in some place and God wants to do something the following day. So you just a demonic presence. You just walk in and you feel something is
wrong. So that's where you start praying. Sometimes you can feel like you're being choked. Sometimes you feel... There's a place I went to in the Coast and
I told myself to find a good hotel so that I could preach and have a holiday, like a
workcation. I didn't sleep that night. I kept feeling like there were people messing
with me. So I had to pray. I told them I was going to fight back. But I didn't sleep that night. I had to go to church tired. But after preaching I understood what was
supposed to happen. And that night they didn't disturb me again. So those attacks exist. But it depends on your rank. I hear people talk about accidents. It's happened to me when I was with Danny
Gift. And I'm bringing him up so that you can ask
him if you don't believe me. We were coming from Kisumu. At some point we saw an old woman dressed
in yellow with her hair standing up, barefoot, coming to our side. I was driving and I veered off. On the other side there was a 40-foot lorry,
a trailer, coming down as we were going up. I veered off and veered to this other side
and I just knew I had hit her. But no one was there. Then I heard Danny saying it was the devil. So I asked him whether he also saw it. Because I was thinking maybe I was just tired. When you hear those stories about a driver
who saw something weird and veered... Boss. And sometimes those areas are a hotspot. You'll find those are the places where there's
a demand for sacrifice. Someone has marked it as the place where they're
going to grow their strength. We call them gatekeepers. There's a gatekeeper in that territory. Yeah. So these things happen. I'm not trying to scare people. I've seen when you say "in the name of Jesus"
those spirits leave you. You just turn on the lights and you say, "Whatever
is in this house, I command you in Jesus name to leave. The Bible has promised me He gives sleep to
them that He loves." And you turn off the lights and you sleep. Because if you know you're sleeping in barracks,
you won't wake upeven if you hear gunshots. Because you know that the people who live
in those barracks can fight back. So when we begin to understand the authority
of the kingdom of God and the power in the kingdom of God, the power of the blood of
Jesus, even if you tell me someone has sacrificed 100 cows I won't lose any sleep because I
know in the realm of the spirit the highest blood is the blood of Jesus. No matter what ritual they do the blood of
Jesus is the highest. And when Jesus died he gave his blood speech. He said it is finished. That "it is finished"... This is deep, but if you translate it to Greek
it says tetelestai. Tetelestai is when people went to war and
started winning, the commander would leave and find a raised area. When he saw there were only like 10 soldiers
left, immediately they were killed he would shout "Tetelestai." The battle is over. It is finished. So on the cross when Jesus said it is finished
the Greek word is tetelestai. The battle is over. The enemy and his people have lost. So whoever identifies with Jesus is on the
winning side. Whoever identifies with this other kingdom
will have to depend on their sacrifices. So that's how it is. So when you know that someone has delivered
you from all that, I even stopped tithing and I'll tell you why. I stopped counting only 10% for God. I give more than 10%. Okay. And you've really explained the spiritual
connection of money because that's something I was hoping actually to bring up. You've explored it from very many angles. In case of anything I'll follow up. But you've also said you refused deliberately
to go and preach about giving, like pressuring people to give. Yes. When you go to a supermarket sometimes people
talk about strategic design that when you enter you have to buy, including the way sweets
and small things are put at the counter to tempt you, to play with your appetite. Some people would argue that the same happens
in church in terms of giving. And I'll call it guilt tripping strategies. Yes, even threats. Sort of like from a cynic's perspective you'll
find in church when the offertory bags are being passed around some people will comfortably
pass it on without giving. So sometimes I feel, or again from a cynic's
perspective, when it's put at the front the embarrassment of remaining seated is tough. So you have. Like psychological games to make sure that
you give. I saw a video that would really complement
that of someone strategically... There's a video of people giving in church. People come and there's someone strategically
standing next to the offering box looking at or checking people giving. Checking. There's also some people who take. But this one there was no way that someone
could take. It's the one where you put it in like this. Then the video is trending because a lady
comes and puts air. And you can see they have nothing. They're willing to come, they woke up to come
but they have nothing, right? Does the church operate like that in some
instances? Of course different people have different
ways to manage how they collect their offerings. I said that the church has so many expenses. And the only way to maintain them is through
people's offering. Electricity, some people have leased the land,
there's ongoing projects. Churches have very many expenses. And people have different creative ways of
collecting an offering. And we can't say that there's a certain way. Because even in Jesus' time how did he know
that this woman had given a lot? He looked at the amount. That's why he said, "This woman has given
more than any of you." Because he knew her heart, her capacity and
he knew that what she gave was more than everyone. In those days those offerings were more. Because back in the day when you went to the
synagogue, let's say you came from Meru and the temple was in Nairobi, you can't carry
a goat from Meru to here. So you'd estimate the value of the goat at
50 shillings and you'd come with 50 shillings and put it in the offering bag. You'd say the 50 shillings was your tithe. And they were marked, tithe, alms, and all
that. So different churches have different ways
depending with your audience to motivate their people to give. Some have shrewd ways. Some threaten you and say that you're stealing
from God. They say if you don't tithe you're robbing
from God. You're a robber. So people give out of threats. And that's why when you give out of a threat
you might miss the blessing. It's the revelation. There are others who use manipulation. You preached powerfully, you've prayed for
someone and maybe they've healed, then you hear God has said, "Release a seed of 7,000. I see 10 people who need to release 7,000." I went to a church where the pastor said,
"I see angels with baskets and each angel demands $1,000." I said those are American angels. Let them go to America. We're in Kenya. How is an angel asking for $1,000? If it was one of ours they'd ask for Kenyan
shillings. So I told myself that is now manipulation. And sometimes people give that money and they're
blessed through faith. Because faith is a principle thing. And then there are people who give willingly. It's not a big deal. Giving is like AOB. Then there are people who just look for creative
ways of encouraging people to give. So personally if it's a creative device I
don't mind. As long as you've preached the gospel and
you're just finding ways to get people to give. Manipulation and threats, that's where the
problem is. Because you can't threaten people forever. And I'll tell you the truth, Kenyans are so
generous but Kenyans are so smart. Even the people who know that their money
is being stolen still give but out of fear. They know that they're giving to God but they
know their money isn't used for God's work. But Kenyans... Let's just look at a few things that people
have done online. You realize Kenyans have the heart to give
if you give them the reason to give. And I've discovered, and I'll say this from
a personal level. When people understand God and they understand
the reason for giving you will not struggle. You don't need to sell anything. People will give. And why can't the church operate with structure? Instead of depending on the randomness of
whether people give or not, right, why can't the church have a budget and have commitments
from members? Like, "Our rent is this. How many people can contribute?" There are churches that do that. There are churches with those systems. You'll hear someone saying, "The whole of
this year my wife and I will give 100,000." That is what people call pledges. So you find I've just decided for myself. Or you're given a breakdown for a project
and you come up with a plan. These conversations where people say they'd
rather give their money to poor people, sometimes we're the ones who make people say that. Because sometimes we come and vomit on them. Because how can I stand up on Sunday...? I once heard a pastor and it rubbed me the
wrong way when he started talking about how much his shoes cost and how God has blessed
him because his shoes are 10,000 shillings. You're vomitting on me. "The other day I took my wife to lunch and
I can't a meal for less than 5,000." Someone like that... And that's the video that will trend. Then when that video trends you start hearing
people saying, "I'd rather take my money to a children's home. Those old men... This is our money." But I can tell you the truth there is that
calibre. You can't miss them. They use manipulation. They'll sell everything to make that money. And the church belongs to them and their wife,
even on the posters and everything. It's a private family business. And they might have a gift from God. They can pray for you and everything. But when it comes to operation there's nothing
there. And there are churches that have very good
structures. Every penny is accounted for. Yeah. And they're the majority by the way. It's just that they can't trend. They trend. Yours is trending. When we go to giving, does the altar matter? Of course I know you've explained it differently. Does the altar where you give money matter? Yeah. Because there's a pastor, and I quote him
because he came out himself and said he never forced anyone to give that 310. People gave willingly. Yeah. And that's why he can't even be sued. That case was hard. The altar matters. What happens to the people who used to give
knowing that they're giving for a good cause, they're giving as it is written? The advantage is that God in His wisdom looks
at our hearts. That is the advantage. But when we come to matters about principles
and laws there are people who run churches but are diviners and people who practice witchcraft. But they run churches. And I'll tell you how witchcraft connects
with someone who is teaching the Bible. The first level of manipulating the Bible
is manipulating tenses. Tenses. Tenses in the sense that there are things
that God has already done. But instead of telling you this is a complete
work I will tell you God will do. He has not done. So you have partner with God so that he can
do it for you. In short I can tell you God will bless you
but until you release a sacrifice that hurts you he won't bless you. Or what will I say? God wants to open a door in your life but
you have to part with something difficult for Him to open that door. Now that is not the God of the Bible. God says, "I've opened a door that no man
can shut. Without any demand from anyone, I've already
opened the door." So when we manipulate tenses of the Bible
we bring man to a place where he has to help God. And if you help God then He'll act. So there are altars where people have bought
strange powers. You'll find someone who just does exorcisms
from 8 to 1. So it's like we just went to see exorcisms. Those people will never teach the victory
Christ gave the church. They will never mature you to overcome and
become victorious. They will always teach you about the threat
of demons and how they can deliver you, and how you have to come with a seed and buy annointing
oil and buy a handkerchief and buy holy water. I tell you, those guys are running a business. Such an altar if it is tied to a demonic spirit
and you take your money there and you prosper the day you leave that altar you'll go broke. Because you went to someone practicing witchcraft. You didn't go to a church. And there are people who change churches and
get broke. You even hear them saying, "This grace is
what saves people. If you leave you'll suffer." Those people are practicing witchcraft. Does that mean there are people who work for
the devil in the name of God? Yeah. Paul says beware of dogs. Paul insulted them. He said beware of dogs. So how does one know that you're giving to
the right altar? I tell people to test the spirit. But the commandments say don't test God. You're not testing God. You're testing the spirit. There are places where you'll sense, even
though you're not born again, you just feel that there's something off. Even though I've never read the Bible, there's
something off with the things that are happening. And there are places where even if you don't
know God that well you'll still feel at home. People are loving. You just feel God's presence. That's testing the spirit? That's testing the spirit. Even right now if I take you to a church and
ask you what you think about it, you could say that even though you don't know God that
well you still questioned why they have to get up in people's faces. You know? Or why did they have to pour water on people? Because your spirit is just put off. Because everyone has God's witness. That's why a drunkard can go to a crusade
and take off his hat even though no one has told him to do that. Because his spirit tells him this is a holy
place and he respects it. Because there's his drunkardness but there's
also his spirit. It's the same way you can go to a place and
just tell yourself that something is wrong. Even before I was born again there are people
I would observe and I'd just know that they're strange. Especially if you find a place that emphasizes
a person more than God. Every testimony is "When Papa, when the man
of God, when the prophet, when the apostle prayed for me..." Those are marketing skills. You see how gamblers have testimonials, "I
had 20 shillings and I bet it and then I won." Boss, when he finishes speaking so many people
place bets because they believe the testimony. So if you say, "I had this problem. And on Sunday I came and Apostle T laid his
hands over me and said that I'm blessed and then my problem for 20 years went away," what
are you telling the people? When Apostle T's hand lands on you your life
will be changed. So what will people begin to do? They will not seek my God. They will seek my hand. So if I tell you you have to give 10,000 and
then we trust in God to handle that matter, you see now you're creating a system around
a man. And in Kenya I'll tell you in the next 10
to 15 years there are people who will die and their churches will collapse because it
was built on a man, not on God. That's the worst scenario. We won't deny that God starts with a person. But that person must be very sensitive. They have to find their own 12 people to walk
with them. So that the day they leave the remaining 12
will continue the mission. If you do it one-man... One-man, even the devil won't be disturbed
by you. He knows that once you die whatever you were
building will fall. It'll go with you. And speaking of the underworld, there are
people who... It's actually a thing around social media
about illuminati. There were even people who had joined and
were told, "This is how you enter," right? Does it mean that there there's a kind of
people they choose? Or as long as they they nominate you and you
can give sacrifices you're in? You know there's no such thing as illuminati. Illuminati is just a word that was coined
later. The sect that exists is the Freemasons. So under Freemasons... Because the Freemason idea is control. And to get control you can't work with idiots. And for you to even join the Freemasons you
must be suggested by someone else. And they have to look at your profile and
realize you're an asset, not a liability. So people think that you can join when you're
broke to get rich. Someone must propose you and the organization
must accept you for you to join. You can't just wake up and join. These others are under Satanism. So there's Freemasonry. And the funniest thing is that you can be
a Freemason and a Satanist. But you can't be a Satanist and a Freemason. Rituals are found in Satanism. In fact witchcraft and all those things, wizardhood
are found in Satanism. That's where you're told to sacrifice seven
goats and do whatever else. Everything you need is attached to a ritual. And then there is luciferianism. Luciferianism and Satanism are different? Satanism is where the dark world is found. Those people don't hide. They're dark, they're mystic, they survive
on altars, enchantments, all manner depending with what you need. So whatever you need you're introduced to
the spirit and the demands of that spirit. There are people who can't join certain ranks
because the spirit you're demanding to work with can't work with a drunkard. Because if you miss one instruction you're
dead. And there are also people who the spirit doesn't
mind that you're a drunkard. So the higher you want to arise the bigger
the consecration to sacrifice and to obey. It's not a game that you just join. I'm telling you there are many people who've
joined and want to leave but can't because of threats and also the demands you've been
given. And those demands, one instruction and you're
dead. That's how it operates. So Luciferianism has come with the new wave
of stay woke. Because Luciferianism is pegged on Genesis
3 that Lucifer came to the Garden of Eden to enlighten man from an oppressive god. And you'll find a branch of atheism which
is 100% influenced by Luciferianism. So Lucifer presents himself as a light bearer
because God has created man and then imposed rules on him. He creates man, gives him sexual desires and
then tells him, "Thou shalt not fornicate." This is a wicked God. So Lucifer came to deliver liberty, do what
thou will. So there's a whole curriculum and it's lectures
to free men from religion that binds men and hinders them from their freedom. That's why you hear the generation saying
stay woke. That is literature from Luciferianism. And when they open the pages of scripture
they try to portray God as a wicked God. You'll hear them saying God killed children. Why did God do these things? That God is merciless. So we bring reason but we don't understand
context of the theology behind that. And since people don't read the Bible they
say, "By the way." Like I saw a woman saying, "Let me do some
gaslighting. God came to frustrate Job just to prove a
point." But if you look at the context of the 42 chapters
you start to understand why this thing had to happen. So Luciferianism uses logic to portray God
as an evil being and religion as enslavement where people need to avoid. But what people don't know is spirituality. The world is not becoming secular. The world is becoming spiritual. And when we talk about darkness it doesn't
mean literal darkness. Darkness means absence of revelation. To mean that people don't know the truth of
God. So deception, manipulation, control by the
demonic becomes the order of the day. A young girl went live saying her favourite
thing is astral projection. And you find a generation that's refused to
go to church and you see the attacks being raised are that the church wants to take your
money. But when something happens... Right now if it floods heavily in Kenya you'll
see people calling for prayers. Which God are you praying? So there's a conscious acceptance there's
a God but the protocols are God is our rescue centre. When things get tough we run there. When things are okay we go out and party. Great. Very well explained. So as we close, is there good money and is
there bad money in this sense, someone has stolen but has paid tithe from that and wants
the blessing from the tithe. Break it down for us. Tithe comes from your sweat. You see when you identify with the Kingdom
of God you identify with the protocols of the Kingdom. So God has encouraged people to... In fact the Bible says God teaches our hands
how to make wealth. So God takes responsibility. So anything that is against God, if you've
worked in prostitution and taken tithe that's just a ritualistic giving. That's why sometimes you hear people saying,
"We cleanse this money." You've robbed someone and given tithe, that
cannot be accepted in the store. It will go to the church but according to
the protocols of blessings it's not considered as money that God... God blesses the work of our hands. You've stolen in government and gotten corruption
money and you've taken it to church. It doesn't move anything. And you've helped the poor? And you've helped the poor. In fact sometimes it's always a curse even
on your side and even on the other side. And it's good you've asked that question. As someone who receives money for God how
I handle it is also very risky. If you read the book of Samuel Eli's children
attracted a curse because of abusing God's offering. Sometimes we pastors attract curses when we
start abusing God's money. Because people give to God but we are the
custodians. If we start using it for our enrichment and
using it for us to grow then it becomes a curse we're bringing on ourselves. So you have to be very sensitive with God's
money. Yeah. That's why I say once you've given money to
the church, giving means when I tell you "Take this phone." You can put in a Zain line or Safaricom or
Telkom. That's none of my business. I've already given it. So sometimes let's not sometimes go to know
how it was used. Do your part but make sure that where you
go first of all is a right place so that your giving also is acceptable, for lack of a better
word, and your conscious feels, "I'm giving in a place where I receive bread and wine." It's very key. And then another thing people ask, before
we close, if you watch T.D Jakes right now or watch a pastor from Nigeria and you go
to a local church, where should your tithe go? It should go to your local church. If the Nigerian pastor will come to bury you
or to dedicate your child then give him tithe. So is tithe an investment in your funeral? No. It's not a funeral investment. It's where we receive bread and wine, spiritual
nourishment. What you can give on the other side is seed. Seed is just something you give for support. But you take it to your local church. The other thing is "I was in Kitengela and
I moved to Limuru so now I go to church in Limuru. Where should I tithe?" So you should know that where you get bread
and wine is where you should tithe. But now online has also opened things up because
there are people who are receiving bread and wine and pastoral care and they identify with
that church. It's acceptable? Yeah. I have membership of people who we pastor
online and we give them pastoral care outside of the nation where churches don't exist. India, wherever else. So those ones can tithe. So if you decide it's T.D Jakes online, T.D
Jakes online. Don't go and eat bread at your local church? Yeah. The funniest thing, and I'll tell you, a research
was done of one of the leading Nigerian preachers, a young preacher. The second givers to his ministry are Kenyans. There was even a time T.D Jakes... Second higest givers are Kenyans. There's a time T.D Jakes addressed that matter
and he addressed it to Kenyans. He said the tithe belongs to your local church
but offerings and support, missionary seeds, TV, whatever else you can give. Because I think he felt he was robbing the
local church. Because those are the people who are walking
with this community. When there's a problem they go and pray for
them. When there's something being dedicated they're
the ones doing the works of ministry. And that's why you'll find sometimes people
compare the Kenyan churches with international churches. When you step in some of those churches the
commitment of their giving is on another level. There's a church in Nigeria the man of God
said "7 people offered to pay for the sound setup but this 1 person has paid for it all. The rest of you can use your money for another
project or keep it." I said, what? One man? Because they understand. If we support our local "pastors", support
their visions those men have greater visions. You'll see where they will go. Some of them will even be greater than those
ones there. But if your pastor wakes up and goes to a
job and then comes on Sunday, where would he get time to pray? Where would he get time to look for the word? You guys meet in town as you're both hustling. Yes, and I think that goes to address what
people were saying about how Kenyan pastors should get a second job. Like being a pastor isn't a job. Personally I'll say when the ministry needs
you full time the ministry must take care of you full time. Okay. And you guys are doing good work at Life Church
International. Very good vibes. Every time I come I find massive transformations. Right now it's interesting that you have people
in employment. When someone is employed in the church they're
not eating into the money for the gospel or into God's money? Why are people giving? There's no day I take the offering to God
in heaven. And when someone is paid from the offering
money should they also tithe? Isn't that double taxation? You see a tithe is an earning. So that means you're working in a church and
you have earned from church. The reason I say that is because I'm a parent. There's a day I asked myself, if today I was
told my child was going to church Monday to Friday and I'm giving them fare, I'm giving
them food, but they say they serve God, how will I feel as a parent? Because they're people who we keep in church
who literally don't have another job. So just as a responsible parent and a responsible
pastor you ask yourself, what is this person eating? Where do they live? What do they wear? Because I'm depending on them here to do the
sound setup for me to do morning glory, to set up the camera for me to do lunch hour,
to set up in the evening for evening service, to collect the offering. And I don't even know where they live. Some even sleep in the church. And maybe you've parked a Benz outside and
you're building a 5-bedroom house when someone else is sleeping in church. And you still expect them in the morning. Sometimes they tell the pastor that they haven't
eaten and the pastor gives them 1,000 shillings. You know, I felt for me this is inhuman. Let's just be civilized and look at this thing
as a job. Let's tell the person, "You have a skill we
need and you're a child of this house You're a member here, number one. We know you've studied videography. You're a professional cameraperson and editor. That's a skill you have and I need that skill." And that skill helps me spread the gospel,
and through spreading the gospel people get blessed and give offering. So part of this can I budget for your skill? And look in the marketplace at how much people
are paid. If someone at a media station is paid 30,000
we can discuss and agree to start you off at 25 as we grow together because I'm not
a media station. But as we grow, as the church continues growing
we'll also begin to check on other areas. Not only will that person give you better
service but even in your own heart... That's someone's child. You'll be a blessing to them. And two things, the final things. How do you draw the line between serving God
and serving the church? Like if I play piano today I'm a music graduate
but you pay me. But now this is the gospel. That's the first thing. Then second why don't the cameramen fall down
during prayers of deliverance? Let me start with the cameraman not falling. There are places where they do. But now you'll find most of the times the
people who are there... There are even times the pastor says, "Right
now there's no pastor, there's no cameraman, there's no sound man. God's power will find you anywhere." But also there are places where those cameramen
are hired and so they must be where the action is. So they have nothing to do with the presence
of the Lord? By the time that shoot is ending the man of
God comes and looks at it and tells you, "Camera 4, you didn't get this shot. When this woman was vomitting you were supposed
to zoom in so that we can see what's coming out." You know, because once that is captured it's
able to trigger emotions or whatever it's going to trigger. Because a friend of mine was hired and said
that day he was super drunk. And when he saw how people were falling down
he tried to escape the pastor so that he doesn't fall as well. But the pastor was calling him and telling
him, "Shoot this." So you know when this goes to TV... This is a market. So he doesn't want to get close to the pastor
because he's drunk. So that's the day he left taking jobs in churches
because he felt like the demonic presence might attack him. Isn't it just like shooting a TV show? Okay, church is sensitive. That's why they say that if you work in a
church you should be born again. Know what you're walking into. Because the other issue with churches is that
this money has been prayed over. You'd just be looking for trouble. So the best thing is to come and look at the
need of the church. Look at the demand you're placing over that
person and then you talk. I told the people in my church, if you see
church as an employer you will lose the heart of service. But as a responsible pastor I have to take
care of you. So I don't want you to come to church and
say that your money has run out here. Because we can't serve God and say that your
money has run out here. And I sat them down and asked them, "Where
are you at? Where were you at in your first job? How much were they paying you? So if this is where you were when I'd call
you and you'd say you're not available, where you used to go from 8 to 5, this is how much
they were paying you. So if I give you the same amount you'll stay
here from 8 to 5." And they'd say, "That's fine with me, Pastor." You even ask others to move closer to the
church so that we can kill the cost of transport. And they tell you they don't have money and
you tell them you'll pay for them to move at least so that you can make sure they're
comfortable. And when I come in the morning I want to see
you here. And I won't talk to you from a place of, "I
paid you." It's from a place of "This is God's work we're
doing. Play your part and I play mine." And I tell you the truth, it makes even the
people buy the vision and buy the joy. And for me it was a very personal conviction
because I realized there are levels where people feel like you're rising on your own. Because we all started together and we were
all broke but we believed in the vision. And then we see things start to rise. The pastor buys a car, his dress code changes
but we're still in the same place. Bitterness starts growing. People start feeling like they've been felt
behind. The pastor follows protocol. It looks like he's in another level and then
he starts looking down at you because whether you're there or not, the congregation still
comes. But in the past he treated you like he needed
you. And at the end of the day it goes back to
the heart of the man. In 30 seconds can you explain to us that story
about separating service to God and service to church? Separating service is just in your heart. It's up to you. If you want to see it as employment well and
good. If you want to see it as "this is my service
to God and the pastor has seen that I facilitate what I'm doing" well and good. Though there are places where people have
HR systems and people are paid according to the market rate and they're given job descriptions
so that at least you know what you're supposed to deliver and what's expected of you. You see when you tell me, "Do the lighting
for this set and set up the table and bring water. That's your job. But that doesn't mean that if you see something
else is wrong you shouldn't fix it. But at least if you do this it makes me appreciate
you." Which for me I feel it's always very good. You get value for your money and also people
enjoy serving God and even they feel honored, appreciated. And the system moves and it can even grow
and become very big. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for coming through. Thank you very much for sparing your time
and availability to share knowledge with people. This goes a long way in helping us in our
quest to understand how money works, especially the spiritual connection. Thank you so much for sticking with us up
to this point. Thank you very much. I hope you enjoyed our content. I trust this was time well wasted. Please feel free to join our family by hitting
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