F-22 vs Rafale HUD Footage Breakdown with Gonky

uh hello everybody welcome back to the channel it's mover with Gonky say hello gonky hello Gonky hey exactly hello everybody sorry today uh in preparation for the folds of honor fight for honor 2020 which registration ends on friday at uh 2359 zulu i think that's right yeah so that's that's like during the day for us americans um which we highly suggest you sign up because folds of honor as Gonky shirt is uh demonstrating as a charity that we support should be a fun tournament uh it supports a worthy cause we're hoping to get max participation and if you're not then please consider just making a donation through the link foh.org fight for honor today we're going to talk about um i used to call it the any given sunday theory which is that any day any aircraft can beat any other aircraft it just depends on the pilot and that's why we always say it depends when people ask us well what's better than the other and one thing specifically we're going to talk about is in recent news and by recent i mean around january and then it kind of picked back up in march and i've gotten a couple emails about this is a recent uh not so recent f-22 versus rafale uh fight uh in the uae where in 2009 rafal got a guns track kill there were some drama surrounding it so i'm going to read the article uh to donkey and then we're going to take a look at the fights themselves questions on that donkey 110 accurate yeah i've been on both sides of it three two one all right so this was in national interest uh by i don't know if you've ever seen his articles donkey david axe he writes a lot of stuff like this and the title was france showed that america's f-22 stealth fighter is not invincible he even gives us a key point the 2009 war game so he's writing this in 2020. eleven years ago a war game could not would not be the last to result in dead raptors past evidence seems to confirm that a french fighter pilot once killed an american f-22 raptor stealth fighter in mock combat although not unprecedented simulated shoot down is still a big deal for a couple reasons dude he would if he ever looked in our ready room i mean if this is newsworthy we better not say much because cnn will be hanging out so um yeah he talks about the loss undermines the pentagon's plan for air dominance the french have totally unreserved reputation of non-military french circles of battlefield incompetence speaks volumes about the french air combat prowess seven decades after paris surrendered to nazi germany like really um so a squad of raptors went out uh from langley to aldaphra in the uae to train with the french air force rafale fighters and typhoons from the british rural air force american pilots insisted their planes had gone undefeated against the front why would you insist that like just i don't why would you ever i don't know five other battles simulated battles ended in draw as the americans said uh pilots uh an f-22 defeated by mirage 2000 so it wasn't even a french guy but then the french came out and posted a video which we're about to watch and the clam camera clearly shows the french plane maneuvering into a good position launching an ir guided mica missile against the defending f-22 to be fair though it's unclear what the scenario was uh obviously there were files a decade older but then they went they actually interviewed the squadron commander so during the raptors first ever major exercise in 2006 an air force viper yeah most likely dating from the 80s managed to kill an f-22 like this made news dude i'm so glad when i was a viper guy you know not every time i got killed didn't make the news a navy growler jet designed to jam enemy radar's repeated the feat in 2008 or 2009. no matter how magical the f-22 any pilot can make a mistake says lieutenant colonel dirk smith a raptor squadron commander then it would not be the last in 2012 some german pilots did the same thing they went and did bfm we were evenly matched they didn't expect us to turn so aggressively but in a slow close tangle what pilots call a merge the heavier f-22 is at a disadvantage as soon as you get to the merge the typhoon doesn't necessarily have to fear the f-22 he says but neither does the 30-year-old american f-16 a navy jamming plane or the 90s vintage rafale flown by a frenchman the worrying implication of course is that chinese russian and other rival planes also need not worry about america's main jet fighter so let's watch let's watch the video all right you ready here's the video here's the video 40 seconds ready ready hack oh look at that look at that raptor 400 knots five g's oh watch the bubble even training rules oh oh 400 knots look at that raptor out there just getting his butt kicked good size engage bullseye one six four fifty eight tally one only tally won only one continue he's blind no joy she's dude that's the end oh wait this says t-38 versus that that t-38 did it oh no oh let's go find the real video then i my bad i i was i thought we were watching my bad i i messed that up donkey i'm sorry i gotta say that looks familiar so this is what the french actually put out in response to those capitalist pig saying that they didn't get killed it's a whole bunch of french which we don't really care about okay in the bonoms juscalors a lot of words here it says the f-22s were dogfighting with external tanks so i guess our pa came back and said no we were using external tanks so it doesn't count even if it's real but then the french were like naha uh oh look look at that there's no tanks on that plane he's in blower he's full up look high aspect high heading crossing angle clermont lapari oh that's what it looks like with tanks they even show us what it should look like all right so here it is i'm going to stop it as we go have you seen this uh possibly yeah well i'll stop it as we go because i don't want to watch it real time we should break it down as as as it happens all right here we go here's the actual f 22 versus rafale play i didn't type them okay he says turn in fights on first thing that tells me this is a bfm set right some kind of either butterfly set where um you know your line of breasts that a mile and a half or so you take a cut away or check away and therefore speak you get to three miles and then the flight lead calls turn in fights on uh such as a cooperative thing or it could be in a beam set what do you i mean based on that there's really no way usually in a beam set it's a three two one fights on that's the only difference that i know i mean do you ever call three uh turning fights on on a beam set uh yeah if you're low on gas in a hurry yeah i mean just to make it happen but all right so let's take a look real quick uh just so we're all clear on what's happening he's about 420 knots so this is his air speed that's his heading that is his um altitude g's uh flight path marker velocity vector whatever they call it he's in sim the thing i i note is he's roughly on a heading of east so i think by the time this resolves it'll be headed to the south so that's about 90 degrees which if you're check if you're high aspect i mean that's still about i mean you really can't i don't know i don't think you can tell uh which side but we do know this is not like an intercept or it's not something bvr they're within visual range right now yeah this looks like can i yeah so he's the other thing i noticed too is he's starting at 20 000 feet i mean usually we don't start that high unless there's something with terrain we have a higher floor i mean typically what do you think donkey fifteen sixteen thousand feet uh definitely definitely usually uh if this can be a fan we start in the teens unless like you said they're having to be over mountain range or something yeah but you'll see at the end they go below 10 000 feet so i don't know if that's a floor bust or you know they're fighting the floor we don't really know what the training rules were for this but uh just something interesting to point out because you'll see here as he he really squares that corner to try to try to get angles which you'll do i mean if you're trying to get the lead turn he tries to you know he's pulling six g's uh which lends itself more towards a beam set than a butterfly because butterflies a little bit more gentlemanly going to the merge like that unless you you know give somebody turning room but he's pulling a whole lot of you know six and a half g's right there and he's gonna dive i mean he he's gonna lose eight thousand feet and you know who yeah the only that i'm aware of um russian aircraft and the chinese we this is all um knots knots and feet okay so he goes aggressively nose low there's about 90 degrees off his heading he's got a lock on the duke oh he's got a lock on something so he checks away and look how low he's getting 13 000 12 000. yeah so he's got 500 knots and he's dropped i mean what 8 000 feet yeah 7 7 500 feet it's a mile dude yeah he has dropped all right so he gets the break x which you know tells you they're close aboard merge the radar thinks they're going to hit each other release the stick tells me he's high alpha and it looks like maybe a right to right pass well i think i think the brake ax if he had a lock the brake x probably man he's inside of mid-range yeah um i don't know i don't know them or fall but i yeah um it looks like they're merging here well so the thing i another uh analysis i've seen said that in french he says tally one right here that raises my eyebrows a little bit because i've never i've never known a reason why you would say tally one in a within visual range engagement that's a can set up unless somebody lost sight yeah exactly unless somebody lost sight and that's still the wrong com because usually it's no joy continue and the continued call says hey dude i got it that you can't see me you better get your no site defense because i'm about to kick your ass you know this is a free shot for me but with language barriers and with um you know different countries and stuff the raptor pilot may have said no joy and the rafale pilot says tally won to let him know the problem though is he says it french and we can't hear any of the calm from the american which i don't understand that either how are we not hearing the us com i mean it could i mean it could be uh the propaganda machine i'm not saying it is but right i mean that's just that's that's a little raises a question mark to me i mean i'm not making any excuses for anybody but you know for breaking down this video and analyzing things that raises an eyebrow because that's non-standard none of this com is is standard at this point uh especially post merge that com is related to safety safety of flight right so it's it's just weird all right so they get their first merge old boy goes up and over into him and he is pulling look at i mean he's pulling i can't read the g meter but i mean i think he goes up to nine at one point okay can we stop for a second and say this is the worst g-strain we've ever heard i mean it's this is the frenchiest g-strain i've ever heard in my entire yeah nine g's if he's awake that's all that matters dude i've pulled nine g's a lot and i've never screamed like that that is just uh that's embarrassing yeah i mean to get a raptor kill and be on tape go ahead you gotta do man i just oh that's gonna trigger somebody so dude he like straight up pulled for everything i think they went one circle here well he's bled he's i mean he's he's bled off 300 knots i think they i think they went one circle and he flushed the raptor out in front which again goes to the idea that the raptor pilot may not be visual at this point well dude more importantly is like you don't have to be blind the whole time i mean if you're blind dude for 50 you know like five seconds i mean that's that's tremendous that's a tremendous disadvantage right so yeah well so it looks like basically in the first merge the rafale gets a much tighter smaller turn radius which tells me it's a radius fight and then i mean he's offensive right here and he could have had a shot he could have had a fox 2 right there but he goes high because he's trying to slow that forward compression so i think they're really in a one-circle flow right now he's 180 knots now yeah yeah i mean i don't think the rate numbers for the rafale is yeah they're in a little bit of a roller here and the raptor reverses so here's an another shot opportunity which the raptor reverses tells me again he's not maneuvering necessarily in relation to the bandit uh either i mean there's just some gross errors or the raptor pilot doesn't doesn't see him yeah uh there's there's definitely a lack of essay on the raptor whoever's finding the raptor because he's graping that's not even i mean with the thrust to weight and the maneuverability of the f-22 at 14 000 feet with as much altitude as he has to kind of exchange uh altitude for angles he's not doing any of that he's just i mean he's probably pulling five g's maybe six g's there he calls his fox do you call fox three or fox too i didn't hear but you're either whatever say hi yo-yos he is high alpha man he's just trading everything in right here all right so now the raptor's going downhill he may have picked it maybe like he said he picked him up uh i mean in this regime the raptor is pretty tremendous thrust away well well this almost tells me there's a 10 000 foot floor look at how he's maneuvering around this floor he's trying he's trying to do a floor save right here you know it's almost like yeah yeah you're right 20 degrees nose up 30. now he could also be trying to stop his forward track as the raptor's great getting angles you know i mean he could be like a high yoyo essentially if there is a 10 000 foot floor he just floor morted i mean the raptor's well above him it's pretty slow here pretty slow here at the rafale i mean it's i mean the result is it's like a like a hornet it's got the canards though i mean that really helped i mean yeah the refo we thought that we're following i was in the fleet i mean it's it's it's a very capable airplane no doubt yeah did you flight the c or the m oh dude that was 2007. whatever the whatever the french navy has that's the m yeah all right so i don't think the floor is 10 000 because he's going high to low so i think that kills that theory but he's in a guns west here uh about to switch these see this is what you were talking about this is the raptor guy going up i think he finally sees him and you see he can't get his nose up there he can't he just can't get he's like he's he's got it but he just can't he can't do it behind him you see now it says recover he's so slow like he just can't i think at that point you know he's he's transitioned he goes ah there he is crap yeah i mean it it kind of sucks we can't hear all the real calm yeah um because that would tell that would tell a lot and it definitely i mean i don't know the uh a couple times that i've seen the raptor fight this is definitely this is definitely different than what i've and the f22 just just has tremendous three-dimensional ability so like it just doesn't make sense to me why the fall would chase him downhill if the raptor guy or gal was cali this looks more like what you would expect fighting an eagle yeah something without thrust vectoring yeah so this is for it reminds me of basically a hornet versus hornet fight you start up high you end up down low yeah okay so he's got fuel he just said something in french i have no idea what he said i think he says sega in your last i think they'd already called the terminate or the knock it off at this point because now watch the raptor yeah they're at six thousand people probably five and the soft deck was 10. but he didn't pull the trigger so if he had a gun shot why didn't he pull the trigger yeah i don't know maybe maybe something else back to the airmax nice basically in a nutshell you know i see a rafale beating a raptor but yeah that's not the whole story i mean i it's clear that yes the raptor was in the position he shouldn't have been in for whatever reasons irrelevant but i mean you and i both know there's a lot more to the to aerial warfare than that there's so yeah there's a couple things going on here the first thing the rafale guy is obviously very good i mean there's no question that he is an expert in flying his aircraft so kudos to him he's doing a great job and he's obviously you know that's a capable aircraft the the part that i guess the heartburn is when you have articles full of hyperbole like the david axe article that says america's air superiority and air dominance is now at risk because of a simulated dog fight which even though the raptor is amazing at stuff like that that's not what it's the best at you know it's still it's a it's an air superiority fighter well man right battles are fought by men for women not by you know the the raptor is the weapon and if you know if you don't know what you're doing or if you just it's not your day you're not getting tallies i mean it's game over i mean you know if if we could show the wall in our ready room there would be like like billions and billions and billions of simulated dead raptors there's a b2 up there i mean there's like i mean and that's the thing is in training we push to a higher level so that in combat you know they we used to talk about it's easier to fight mike tyson in training and then you know work your way down than it is to start with mike you know mike tyson out out in the field and you know beat up on his this kid brother in training you know so you always fight for the more difficult scenarios in training which is why you end up with a you know 1962 t-38 killing you know a 200 million dollar airplane that's not to say that that the t-38 is better or that the raptor is you know less capable it's just to say that you know any time anybody anybody people make mistakes and anything is susceptible so where it applies when people ask me um you know they go hey mover f-16 versus f-18 i'm like it depends right it it dude it depends it depends you know they're like well mover and an f-16 versus mover and f-18 i go well it depends is am i having a good day in one jet or not the other because the person that wins is the one that fights to his jets strengths and the other jets weaknesses well yeah you know like the flanker video i posted like a lot of guys i can't believe the flanker pilot made the same mistake three times and he didn't make the three same as i fight my fight yeah he lost three times like i mean maneuvering to a shot is maneuvering to a shot and it's you know how it is man when you fight somebody that's better than you in the same airplane you know immediately oh yeah oh yeah yeah you know immediately like after the first merge it's like uh-oh yeah well and that's the thing is you know so when when people talk about you know the tournament that we're doing and stuff and they're like well you know one aircraft's gonna dominate and i'm like maybe you know it i if if you get a guy out there or girl that is capable in the tomcat or capable in a mirage or capable in the f-14 they can they can have a field day you know it just it's it's it's the machine it's it's magazine racing on steroids right you know the old car thing where people like well my car ran a you know a 12 and a quarter mile and you're like have you ever been to a track yourself no but car and driver did it and it's like okay well you know they have like a two second runoff or they just roll off the line you know i mean you can't don't magazine race when it comes to this stuff just because a raptor lost to a t38 or to a rafale does not in any way speak to the capabilities of that machine no i mean the the real answer is this like if you put if you just look at the engineering numbers the raptor is the best air-to-air fighter out there like mean to dispute that i think is just dumb but the germans had the me262 and i mean jets lucky for us it's not all about the airplane you know i mean chuck yeager shot down at me262 and he did it because he caught one trying to land yeah it still counts yeah so i mean it depends you know what are the tactics how good are you at the tactics you know like straight up what's your luck that day what's the environmentals what are the strong points that you airplane the weak points i mean there's a thousand things that that go into it and dude i used to see it all the time as a navy guy uh but my very first large force exercise in the hornet there was like 12 hornets we all pushed out and one f5 got behind all of us you like destroyed the whole strike package i remember that at fallon we put the f5 in the ambush cap and it was like pew pew pew pew pew pew i mean for that guy right so yeah but soul crushing for everyone else how could this have it can't happen on paper but the thing is it so even to your point though when that happens that's a good thing because it happened in training and by happening in training we can then go back and do the six hour debrief and get the lessons learned and make ourselves better which is why we go debrief which is why we train i mean you don't start out as you know you're the best always you know undefeated world champion or whatever you have to you have to get beat every now and then and sometimes it's good because it gives you that little piece of humble pie and you go oh wow i need to get better soon it makes you better yeah and you it what honestly what it does i've i've been lucky to fight a lot of different airframes and it really solidifies you got to respect every airframe out there i mean the other video talked about me fighting the hawk and that the guy pulled him really floored me you know almost turn the tables on me right but i mean at the end of the day like if you got a well-trained pilot in an airplane that has weapons and could kill you he is dangerous yeah i mean and they we've proven that you know vietnam you know it's been proven with the older migs you know they were just oh the f4 we don't even need a gun it's going to be air-to-air missiles and then all of a sudden you know they're they're getting shot down by mig-17s you're like yeah how is this happening you know i mean you and i hear it all the time you know i mentioned in my flanker video like you know people oh that that jet would be dead at the merge i'm like well i'm smart enough to know uh when my radar would fail was always when i needed it the most which would be that bvr so guess what there's gonna be a merge yeah you know so i it's you know the the airplane is just the weapon it's built by man uh it can fail and at the end of the day it's the operator man you know the air the raptor gives you an advantage right i mean you have an advantage i mean i've fought the i've seen i've seen the raptor fight many times i've been on the receiving end of the raptor gun you know numerous times and i mean flat out the jets amazing and i'm not you know and probably the guys flying it were better than me i don't know but you know all i know is i got beat you know the flanker by the flanker yeah i mean the guys flying it were you know that their training and combined with their airplane were better than me and my airplane i don't it happens you know through training they're like you're talking about you hope to raise that average that you have higher and higher so hopefully god forbid you ever actually go into combat your average is good enough to to allow you to win and survive yeah and somebody made a good point too back in 2009 was back when the raptor was fighting with the obog's problems so they may have had maneuvering limitations back then that didn't allow them to exploit the full potential of the aircraft let's be honest it was new back then right i mean there's hood footage of a hornet gunning a uh a raptor you know oh yeah i remember when it first came out because i was in the fleet and uh that picture made it around all the fighter squadrons and were like oh raptor's a piece of crap well dude like any brand new weapon it takes time to learn its abilities to be honest you know how how to fight it how to fight it you know is the first american thrust vectoring fighter you know how does that change how we teach bfm you know i mean there's a whole yeah yeah that's true i mean the you know you're just now starting to see the thousand hour the 2000 hour guys i mean you just there hasn't been a lot of time for it to mature as a community no and there's so few of them i mean that those guys i mean i the guys you know probably your top guys in the raptor are probably pretty eye watering you know their skill combined with the airplane um but you know in the video there i think a lot of people maybe he was insinuating people make fun of the french and stuff you know i've i've worked and fought with the french french navy and i do those guys are you know anybody who's flying a fighter jet man is is a professional in their field and they you know all fighter pilots have the the drive to want to win and have most of them have the wherewithal to know it's it's in the training in the pilot that counts so i mean those guys i respect the french pilots as well and this guy looks like he'd be a raptor good on it this this sounds more like a pa versus pa like this doesn't sound like you know french fighter pilots versus american fighter pilots putting out this stuff this sounds like pa or non-pilot versus non-pilot saying this stuff exactly man because any any fighter pilot knows the reality of aerial warfare yeah yeah anyway well hey goku thanks for being on the channel man looking forward to seeing you on the uh well on your channel uh the ready room which we can find you i'll put a link in the description and the card and all that stuff but also uh for the fight for honor 2020. i'll be uh i'll be on there with you doing some narration and uh again i echo what mover said uh please sign up even if you're not a dc if you if you're like me and don't have a dcs uh yeah man you just make a donation yeah oh yeah it's a good cause it's a good time so all right gonky well thanks for that um and thank you everybody for watching we'll see you next time the doors off rule number one

Channel: C.W. Lemoine

Views: 162,776

Rating: 4.6524391 out of 5

Keywords: f-22, rafale, f-22 vs rafale, ate, french air force, american air force, us air force, fighter pilot, breakdown, analysis, mover, gonky, c.w. lemoine, cwlemoine

Id: MQeJXaTbfS4

Length: 32min 44sec (1964 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 23 2020