Eric Metaxas interviews the "Vicar of Baghdad," Canon Andrew White.

well Ken and whites on behalf of all of these people let me say why if I just look at this yeah we do you do mind we're we're so happy to have you all the way from Baghdad or Baghdad as you say via clapping via Clapham that we're not gonna let you go just yet the Coulson Center's asked me to ask you a few questions this will be rather a hard-hitting journalistic interview I think most interviews are now on the contrary let me let me confess that like whenever I go around speaking about Bonhoeffer or Wilberforce which I do almost always people say that having read those books or having heard about Bonhoeffer a Wilberforce that they're inspired by them but more than that they usually say they're humbled by their example and made somehow to feel inadequate by the greatness of these men so I want to confess to you that that's my experience being in your presence and having heard you speak tonight you're tremendously inspiring but there's something very humbling about being in your presence because just to hear a little bit about what you've experienced and done it's it's very very moving so I'll try to you're a nice person I'll try to soldier on that it's just in my script I really it's the first time I'm reading this have you always been this nice I actually yes yes even nicer even nicer most of the time but I I mean all of that as I think you know I'm further further made by you to feel inadequate by your wonderful English accent all of us here although we we pretend that we don't want that we all really do wish we could speak like you and I am tempted to speak like you even now even even using the phrase even now I think there's just a little British creeping into the way I'm going to be forming sentences even though my pronunciation of the American very good and I like that you asked the way you asked questions when you say something say doctor so-and-so you say didn't we I like that I'm gonna pick up on that so the Royal the Royal way yeah so I've just got a few questions with that very long forgive me preface can I just think no haven't you said enough haven't you you you can you can simply continue talking I don't have to ask any questions we'd really prefer to hear from you the questions were just hoping to set you up so if you have something to say please say it yes I thought you were blood I've noticed that he has an amalgam filling it is not good but he should have a mercury spinning right I need to remove two swords out so we do it off the Lord I don't know what you what happens in your church but in my church this will be replaced by a gold filling next Sunday I'm going to be we're gonna pray for that and it will happen more wow wow I'm so sorry you're aware of that although we can talk about that privately I'm not entirely cynical about such things but the question I have for you the simple question the first question really is how did Jesus come into your life because I don't think in everything you said you didn't tell us about that you want to know how I got saved no okay I want to know how it is that Jesus came into your life I know how you got saved it happened 2,000 years ago in Calvary it's your question isn't it well good job' happened dead because I've never been converted is that right never well I can my parents my parents first thing they taught me was that Jesus loved me jesus loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so little ones to him belong they are weak but he is strong yes jesus loves me yes jesus loves me yes jesus loves me the Bible tells me so well they taught me that Jesus loved me always so I always love Jesus so much the earliest memories I have is of loving Jesus and him loving me so I never got saved I you really do need to get saved it's it's an important thing to most of us I know I have to say that you know you know well I've never doubted even in the days of starting theology Cambridge when everybody doubted all day every day I've never doubted one hmm until now even now now I have to say that I'll bet most of the people in this room taught their children that Jesus loves them but the big difference between you and all of our children is that you believed it immediately that's very rare you're aware this is where well I wish my child were exactly that very simple joy it's but that's an extraordinary thing it's rare that one hears of somebody having real faith that early so this extraordinary thing what what sort of faith did your parents have specifically did you go to the COV Church where did you go no my father was a strict and particular Baptist really Calvinist II my mother was Pentecostal so I became Anglican that's right right when I was when I was at school my teacher said to me or to all the clubs what do you want to do any grub and I said I want to be an anesthesiologist and a priest and she said you can't do two things just one and she said you can't be a priest anyway because you are Pentecostal so I did both and became Menengah well there are a lot of reformed people in here who've just written you off theologically the Dutch the Dutch Calvinists can be extremely judgmental that way but that's what grace is for exactly but amazing great but that's an extraordinary combination and I'm very happy to hear that strange and extraordinary combination because I know you still hold to it yes even though you're in and even though I'm angle again I have always held to very reformed conservative theology and very wacky charismatic quick build yeah believing praise the Lord have you heard of Terry Fulham who's he okay then yeah that's a no no it's just because I when I was saved in 1988 I began going to an Episcopal Church which was the logically very conservative and entirely charismatic so I'm right where you are theologically where was that cherry in Connecticut Darien Connecticut connected yeah I can take you there it's just up the road here okay I'll I would love to do that and you can take me to the Clapham church we'll be in actually okay so this brings up when you when you say your church and true church near here and they're great churches I ain't controls that believe yes that's right I didn't tell you that my colleague my right-hand man he used to be my er well my wife would say my co-director I used to say my assistant but now he's the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin really he opened a church in Baghdad with me and he's theological II absolutely strict down the line wacky charismatic conservative evangelical that's amazing that's that's absolutely amazing I didn't expect to hear such good news today yes amazing that's because so many of the Episcopalians oh don't tell me druids well you you you said that that your father was reformed your mother's kind of costal can you tell us little bit about your ethnic background you don't have the typical pasty complexion we've come to expect from people with your accent well the fact is I look here okay yes you do I look that he like all of my people my father was the Anglo Indian a residue loved the British rods when the British ward the world walled and my mother was boring English so I've got a mixture of some Indian some English and do you make me lucky Rock yes you do did you did you how did your parents meet if I can ask they met the Friday night Bible studies at Martyn lloyd-jones Westminster Chapel in London so very reformed I'm very I'm very glad I asked that question and Martyn lloyd-jones he used to call himself a Calvinistic Pentecostal yes there are hundreds of us yeah we get everywhere it's really that means is two years yeah for sure yeah don't tell them the Dutch people are just leaving now the my goodness here I can't cope with the Pentecostal Calvinistic bit that's the Pentecostal bill yeah right they can't they can't cope with that and there's some devotees of John Armstrong here so I say I'm strong what did I mean nope folks it'll come to me forgive me I have a pollen headache it's lovely because of that really it could be it could be don't you sell plays very good that my assistant I bring with me just happens to be addictive yes but it just happens to be evening when she should be making peace I want to to ask I want to ask you if if I could when when were you called to the ministry and when were you called to Iraq and how right I was in between cardiac arrests one day you don't always have a gap between them they don't plan them out very well not not your cardiac arrest no good okay I was running the resuscitation team it's and Thomas's obviously Big Ben and I was in the garden doing my evening praying I said lord I thank you so much he was sent into the best Hospital in the world to Train so wonderful I love it here I've learned so much and I got such a wonderful job then I said something very dangerous what next Lord and he said to me you've got to go into the church and I said no how old were you at that point about 26 and he then said to me you've got to go into the Anglican Church I said Lord but they're not even all saved since you know what I fought it for half an hour often when you ask God what to do you don't like what he says you don't want to do it put up a fight mine only lasted half an hour fortunately that since we talked about the idea of being a Pentecostal when you say you heard from the Lord we all hear from the Lord differently how how was it that you heard from the Lord at that point was it a deep sense did you get a Rhema word of knowledge how was it what do you think I don't know does it matter it is not just the mercury fillings speak Lord thy servant heareth and one of the things I regularly have to do with my people is they regularly say to me daddy how do we hear you sir and you have to practice the presence of God and you have to practice listening to God and it's not just because I've got a good hearing aid that I can hear but God speaks to you and I don't know how it is that I know when God is speaking I knew when it is him why do I know because I know how do I know because I knew I just know you know don't you well one person said Amen I didn't have any doubt that you knew I just was looking at hoping to get some insight into the mechanics of it because some people hear from the Lord in in different ways some people see visions some people hear specific words of Scripture and with other people it's it's just a deep knowing well with me in daily life I have an ongoing communication with your mighty I talk to him he talks to me and he often tells me things I don't want to hear he tells me when I have to do something I don't want to do but I know it's him in Iraq we have it in the more supernatural we're big into angels we have lots of angels I mean really jewels and we see the physical presence of God we see miracles miracles and miracles one man turned up at the clinic one day I made his name was he said to our doctors because they think this is the English clinic they think we can do everything we can't he said Andrew no he said doctor can you make my daughter better can you treat her the doctor said she's in the hospital we can't treat her he said go and see abouna he came to me said Oh Bruno can you help my daughter he was a Muslim and I said I can't but God can and I heard God say to me I will make her better you can't I will I prayed with him told him God is going to make your daughter better go to the hospital now and just keep saying Jesus in our man he is 2a yessiree yessiree he got there and the doctor came out and said I made I'm so sorry your daughter's just died he cried and cried and cried he went to his daughter laying dead on the bed pulled back the sheet grabbed her and just said yes sir she set up and she said daddy I'm hungry can you give me some food so he came told me there I said don't worry it's happened like that before that's hearing Jesus isn't it yeah yes well the good life yes the second part of the question sir was how how was it or when was it and how was it that the Lord called you specifically today do you have any previous connection with Iraq no connection with the rod I have been working very much in Israel I'd been to the Collins Stalin yeshiva I was the only guy the first lawyer ever to go to measuring mission I was really in a dish which they really vary from very Orthodox and I was there my Shiva and I started there so I was quite okay with the Middle East but I thought I would spend my life in Israel and there was really really holy lady that my rabbi my dogs ultra-orthodox big Barry her rabbi said me too one day her name was Ruth Heflin and she said to me she was a scary lady ever seen these big forceful prophetic scary ladies first for a prophet false false scary prophetic lady and she said to me God is calling you to spend your life fighting for peace in the Middle East I thought well that's good Israel I like and then when I started at Coventry Cathedral in charge of reconciliation God said to me I want you to go to our goal said standing outside the cathedral one day I heard him say Iran I said to the Lord okay I'll try I went to the Ambassador or doriel meeting the Iraqi intra section of the Jordanian embassy we didn't have an embassy as such then broke off relations since the bombing that we'd started in the early 80s from the evasion of QA and everybody didn't want me they said stop the bombing of Iraq and then you can come so do you know what the last thing I did was I brought my team together and I prayed about it the last thing I did the next day I got an invitation from Tareq Aziz to go to Iraq I went that was five years ago in those days I used to go and see Tareq Aziz in his palace did you say five years ago five years before the war before the war so this is 1997 98 98 yeah and nowadays I don't see toka Z's in his prison cell it's very difficult my prison ministry it's very interesting prison ministry it's either with Saddam's ex ministers or it's with the one British prison and we have in a while he was in the Marines had a bad day one day he joined security firm and he shot dead his colleagues he's still in prison and I go and see him and we love Jesus together I had the joy and the privilege and the honor of leading him to faith and he still is so committed to Jesus and when I go into Crocker jail to see him he brings me out sheets of papers every day he wipes a prayer for me and he shows me his prayers for all the different days you you mentioned something so staggering that it's I would say impossible for most people in this room to take it in you said that 1276 of your parishioners had been killed I confess that we almost don't know what that can mean how is it possible to a bunch of people living in Virginia I live in New York City when you say these people have been killed if you don't mind telling us how how is that we've most of us never been to Baghdad how well be most of them haven't been talked it because they're Christians they're just Iraqis in Baghdad and people get blown up and killed anywhere some of them have been targeted one day I baptized 13 people two days later 11 of them were were killed so some are targeted but many are just they're killed when Sarah and I go out and do our parish mystique surrounded by all these soldiers and police and we go and see these people and we take them food and drink and they've got nothing they're open sores running down the road and this is one of the richest countries in the world as regards oil and now people have nothing Sarah they dentists you're going to see I see her now that's as close as she'll get well it's very interesting that if people could get both of us they would kill us there is no way that she my Sarah is a Muslim I am a Christian I love her people she loves all people she comes to all the surfaces with me she translates Mitchard she probably could give you a sort of sermon better than I could how you doubt it oh I'm sure you could Sarah after you've done his tooth that looks like a piece of dental equipment you're holding off there is it I yeah it is wonderful what if I'm sure you're cheaper than my dentist so please I look at this you're you're a magician as well I have I have two final questions for you thank you thank you I know floss I have two to two final questions to ask you - yes only two the first is about your multiple sclerosis I was fascinated to hear about this it seems that it's been 17 years since you were diagnosed with it you seem to be doing spectacularly well can you tell us a little bit about this if you don't mind my direction Sara we devised in our churchyard in our clinic the treatment I was so bad that my consultant friend who's a human ologist had been over to England but it's helped him train in England how to do bone marrow transplants he came to me one day and he said abouna buna you're getting so bad I said what do you mean he said you can't talk properly anymore your cognitive function is bad your walking is not very good I need to treat you I said everybody says they need to treat me but they don't know what to do oh he said I've looked it up on Google really dr. Majeed yes he said what you need is stem cell treatment I said I know that but I have very big ethical objections to so much stem cell treatment when it's taken from embryos of fetuses I'm not having that oh no he said I'm going to take you from your own blood I'm going to take your stem cells you get them into your into spinal space and see what happened I said dr. Majeed have you done this before he said no I said a - the first there he said yes when you going to do it he said tomorrow he did that was four years ago and I'm still here and I had this treatment now only three times a year and we have developed a horse stem cell unit in our little clinic in Baghdad and before the violence got so bad we were having patients come over from America Britain to have stem-cell treatment for various autoimmune diseases not just ms we especially did a lot of children with cerebral palsy a muscular dystrophy and we put the blood through a human dynamic machine and we break it down to plasma and then to the barfy coating and then inject it firstly intrathecally and then into the soft tissue and it works I knowing nothing about what you're talking about I have to ask you for some context if someone gets MS in this country do they have access to something like what you're describing oh yeah they do research and research and research and if you're fortunate you might be part of the research and they might give you the real thing or the wrong thing it's a staggering you have to understand I mean those of us who aren't in medicine to think that we might get better treatment for something like this in the Green Zone of Baghdad no you snort the Green Zone to red zones it's the bad air oh it's the bad area that's why people have stopped coming look we might make you better but you might be killed coming fair enough okay what so one assumes it would be illegal for you to do this treatment here that was okay and in what other countries can one do such charges are things China so you know Sears pay thousands and thousands you can go to China if you pay two hundred and fifty dollars for the set you can come to beg down well this is just really staggering but I'll I'll leave it at that we are kind of amazed that that you're doing as well as you're doing and this is very very big yes if the only sizes comes in that's good yeah yeah it's it's we we've got a hundred hundred of them in a box and we've got to use them up yeah Chuck Chuck Chuck on a deal from some he was very very frugal frugal to a fault and he knew someone who coined them and said let's let's do it my last question to you when when I hear your story and I'm assuming this is the case with most of us here it's it's an extraordinary story and well it's even more to the story if you buy my book afterwards those aren't just giveaways no I'm sign it for you well the Colson Center will cover the one that I stole them okay no you're allowed but I I guess I want to say this whenever I hear a story anything like yours a millisecond after my thrill and inspiration I get angry and frustrated because I realized this story ought to be told infinitely more widely especially here in the United States where we live has there well are you going to do that well I'm I'm leading up to that I guess my my question is has there been some kind of film or anything along those lines made that that tells your story I don't know if this tribute video was just a tribute video or if it was called from something bigger well I must confess there are films films videos videos films films videos videos there are lots but there's one really good one coming out because it's the usual thing so you knew with General Petraeus and primers to blown all using but there's one coming out which is with the poor people in there bro in the terrible smelly home that shows it as it really is you know most of these people here who've worked with me they're really lovely people but they're not allowed to put one foot outside the embassy are you they don't know anything about what happens out there they're not I say to my congregation at the Embassy and they will tell you this I say you are in the biggest prison in the world so that's prison ministry all right well before I let you leave the stage can you tell us if there's sort of a cliche question but I don't know how else to phrase it after hearing you the larger question is what is it that we can do give us some idea of how how we might help the work that you're doing now most people say what we need you to do is pray for us and that means nothing the thing about praying in God's eyes praying in line with your sewer is you pray and do what we do is pray we love Jesus he talks to us we talk to him but we do when people say how can we pray for you I say three P's protection provision and perseverance and that is so true but the second P is provision how do we provide for God's people we are their brothers and sisters how do we provide for them in Baghdad Iraq but not just Iran also here now we have got we used to have 1.5 million Christians in a row now they're probably only 200,000 most Iraqis have left Iraqi Christians do you know that there are more Iraqi Christians in Chicago than there are in Iraq and they need help here they have nothing the really challenging thing for us is how do we look after our people who've escaped to feed him and they need no operation or they need it he's done and there's no way of them getting supported here in America and we're having to send funding over to America to help our people here which means there is less route people in a row if someone wanted to give to that work would they give to your organization what's the name of the organization we have a very good foundation here and General Howe Rowland general kick lighter and general gray are all part of the leadership of that foundation it's called the foundation for relief and Reconciliation in America with leaf and reconciliation in the Middle East America and we can give you all a piece of paper about the foundation and how to support it and that would be really great we really need we had our board meeting this morning which General Howe called chair and it was so encouraging we've got such a wonderful group of people you know looking around that board meeting and seeing sitting next to me ambassador Bremer do you remember him ambassador Bremer who headed up the Coalition Provisional Authority and with our great generals and I just thought we are so blessed how blessed we are to have such wonderful people so we're not alone we are together and I thank you so much for recognizing me this evening and thank you for the great honor Oh getting this award it means so much to me I really honestly cannot think you know well we thank you and I will finally let you leave the stage but it's with great reluctance thanks for being with us yeah yeah like I could just cuddle up to you but it may be maybe awkward like one that one thing we found tonight is is Eric Metaxas has met his match and

Channel: Colson Center

Views: 41,191

Rating: 4.9117646 out of 5

Keywords: chuck, colson, john, stonestreet, two, minute, warning, breakpoint, Christians, christianity, Jesus, Christ, God, religion, spirituality, heaven, Eric Metaxas (Author), Vicar of Baghdad, Canon Andrew White, Baghdad (City/Town/Village), Iraq (Country), Iraqi Christians, Middle East, Christians in Middle East, Anglicans, Red Zone, Christians and Muslims, Christian minister, Wilberforce, William Wilberforce, Abolition of slavery, Clapham, Claphams, Clapham sect

Id: vOJlSIaFv1I

Length: 44min 27sec (2667 seconds)

Published: Mon May 05 2014