Interview: Eric Metaxas & David Brooks

well this Pat McGann still here is he here seriously yeah let me just tell you something pal I know comedy I know funny and you're brilliantly funny just want to say that the only problem is David has to get out of here by 9:00 o'clock so it wasn't Pat's fault I want to tell you all what a joy it is to be here Jim Lane said to me do you think you could do something like maybe interview somebody on Saturday night and I said well Jim I love doing that I do that at Socrates in the city I do it all the time who do you want me to get he said what about David Brooks I said I don't know I'll see if he can come and I emailed him and he said he could come and he's here David thank you for being here since um since we're out of time let me ask my last question how can we get this lovely product you're a tremendous writer David's book this is just gonna put Paul Young in his place David's book is currently number one is that correct not on the New York Times bestseller list way better than that on Amazon number one it must feel good to be in the top one anyway David in the few minutes we have together let me ask you the question that every author gets asked this is the big question this is a book on character people are writing about character my first question is why did you write this book or let me rephrase it why in the world did you write this book okay first thank you for it's a pleasure to be here I'm gonna try to be brief not because I have to go because I know you didn't actually come here to hear me speak I've been around a lot of you guys for a little while and I know you came here to hear yourself and so I try to get out of the way of that isn't it second question is nastiness of virtue oh now come on no but yeah unfortunately I hear you bro keep going so you know everyone's life has certain transformations I grew up on the left and in New York City that's redundant by the way well I was social my parents were hippies they took me to Central Park when I was five at a bee Inn where hippies would go just to be and they threw their garbage they put a garbage can on fire and threw their wallets into it to demonstrate their liberation for money and material things and I was five and I saw five dollar bill on fire in the garbage can so reached my hand and it grabbed the money and ran away and that was sort of my first step over to the right and so that was the first transformation and then there were a lot of other transformations I've started from Chicago I went to Chicago a school where a Baptist school or atheist professors teach Jewish students st. Thomas Aquinas and then I became a columns New York Times a job by a conservative columnist of the New York Times a job I liken to being chief rabbi at Mecca not a lot of company there did Pat write this material for you but now be honest I'm trying to keep the spirit in tow but then you know then certain things happen in your life and so I work at a show on PBS called the news hour with Jim Lehrer I do a segment with shield with Mark shields called shields and Brooks thank you we we want to call that Brooke Shields in the back yeah and so I'm driving home one day it's summer it's 7:30 and I pull into my house then in Bethesda Maryland here and the trifle goes around the side of the our side of the house so I see in the backyard and it's like a perfect summer evening the sum is coming through the trees the grass looks perfect my three kids were then twelve nine and four are in the backyard and they got one of those balls you buy at the supermarket and they're kicking it up in the air and it's curving in the wind and they're running across the yard and tumbling all over each other laughing their heads off as they try to get to the ball and I pull into the side and I just I'm suddenly surprised by this tableau in front of me and so I just stare at it through the windshield and it's one of those moments when time and space seem to spill outside its bounds and you get overwhelmed by a sense of gratitude and by a sense of getting a happiness that's higher than anything you'll ever get on the job and is more than you'll ever deserve and when that happens and we in the room know the word for that which is Grace when that happens you want to be worthy of those moments and you want to be worthy of people who generate an inner light that you occasionally meet and so you know I was doing great in my career but when I see people within a light when you feel that flood of grace you think well I have a lot of success but I don't have that and you want to be worthy of that and so that set me off on a course of four or five years trying to figure out how other people got that I think everybody here would go yep yep I get it but I want to go deeper and ask this question why do you think there are so many people that go through life who don't have that thought that you had in other words it's let's not pretend that everyone has that thought not only did you have the thought but you wrote a book about it so I think we're all blessed by moral imagination we all want to lead a meaningful life you know I teach at Yale as I only teach at schools I couldn't gone into unlike Eric none of my kids are like you strangely but they they they have they're like super achievement kids to get into Yale is a phenomenal thing they all like I've started three companies cure for formerly fatal diseases you know I asked him what are you doing on spring break it's like you know I'm you know cycling across Thailand while reading to lepers so they're like but what they do not have is of a moral vocabulary except for the religious kids but the secular kids want to be good one of my kids took me to coffee said I'm he said we're so hungry we're so hungry but they don't have a vocabulary they don't have even words like race they're not words like saying they don't have words like soul they just don't have the vocabulary and so I think they're frustrated there's a guy at Notre Dame Christian Smith who's a sociologist who went around the country asking college students name your last moral dilemma seventy percent of them could not name a moral dilemma they'd say you know I pulled on a parking space had their many quarters and he would say well it's sort of a problem it's not really a moral dilemma and so what the secular world as a whole needs is a moral vocabulary and so I just tried to bring it to them and myself too I don't put myself separate well so I mean this brings me to the larger question if I were doing this for Socrates in the city first of all we wouldn't have started with family feud but that what Wheel of Fortune I would but I would ask the large question the large question is can we be good without God can we have a moral vocabulary without God you seem to imply in the book that on some level yes and I just want to ask that question so personally I think it's harder to be good without God but I just observe empirically I know a lot of wonderful people of faith I know a lot of people of faith who are Schmucks I know a lot of wonderful swing point them out go ahead I don't care go ahead point them out I I know a lot of wonderful secular people so I know atheists who I think are a great human being well there's no question but but let me get to the vocabulary question because I think that's the crucial one I do think you need the vocabulary you need a language of moral growth one of the people I talk about in the book is Dwight Eisenhower so Eisenhower when when he was nine he had a tempered problem his mom is remarkable woman I dyes an hour he wanted our trick-or-treating it when he was nine his mom would not let him he punches a tree in his front yard and he punches it so bad he rubs all the skin off his fingers she sends him to his room lets him cry for an hour and she comes up combines his wounds and she recites a verse from Proverbs he that conquered his own soul is greater than he who taketh the city and sixty years later when yours memoirs he said that was the most important conversation of his life because he taught him he had a sin his temper and you'd spend the rest of his life defeating his sin which he did he created this equipoise and some he was a hater naturally he would take and to he but he knew he had to fight it he couldn't lead that way and so he would write people's names he hated on pieces of paper and he'd ripped them up and throw them the garbage can and he he made himself strong in his weakest spot and if you don't have a vocabulary of sin you don't have vocab really of self defeat you don't live a capillary of soul know that there's something worth fighting for then I just think it's hard to do it so Abraham Lincoln's faith was very complicated but he grew up with the King James Bible and he had the vocabulary and I think you need the vocabulary I just observe empirically there are some wonderful people who are not faithful well I mean there's no question I some years ago at Socrates and city I had father Newhouse for the Richard John that Newhouse many of you know him and the question that he was asking and answering that evening was can an atheist be a good citizen and he went on and on and then at the end said and so in the end I'm afraid we must conclude no you know and I thought that's certainly not the answer I'm looking for because I I understand technically what he meant but it seems obvious that an atheism can be a good an atheist can be a good citizen or an atheist can be a good person but I guess the when you talk about the having a moral vocabulary is there a way to even have a moral vocabulary apart from faith how is that possible do you think it's possible to invent that what are you thinking when you say those things well the first thing you need is what I call a biblical metaphysic kids are raised today to think they're wonderful one of the statistics that quote in the book in 1950 the Gallup Organization asked high school seniors are you a very important person and in 1950 12% said yes they asked the same question again in 2005 and this time it wasn't 12% who thought they're a very important person it was 80% they have a thing called the narcissism test where they ask young people there I'm gonna read you a bunch of statements do these apply to you their statements like I find it easy to manipulate people because I'm so extraordinary somebody should write a biography about me I'd like to look at my body and the median narcissism score has risen 30% in last 20 years so they're raised with a view that they're perfect and wonderful inside all the commencement cliches follow your passion be true to yourself but the Bible teaches us differently it teaches us we're splendidly and dad but also deeply broken and you have to have an awareness for your own brokenness now can you have that without active faith I think you can I think you can be have humility without faith and of course personally I think it it's it helps to believe you're being observed I hope it helps to believe your life is part of a purpose I think it helps to believe your love more than you deserved but I just observed that oh well I would say this is my career I'm not a religious writer I'm trying to take a lot of moral and religious categories and make them more pervasive in our culture and so I'm writing as a secular writer for a secular audience right well first of all I want to applaud you for that because we clearly live in a culture where we're people especially cultural elites have shrunk from doing that have shrunk from using more vocabulary as though that were itself bad so I applaud what what you're doing very much because to try to bring this vocabulary into the secular world as your I would say uniquely able to do is it is important but I know and I agree with it but I know that there are people who would have theological issues they would they would they would fuss in a sense and I would say fuss that's the verb I would use that they would fuss and say well in a way being good doesn't matter it's about salvation you can only get South only God can rescue us from ourselves and I would agree with that theologically but I think what happens what has happened in the evangelical world over the last I don't know how many decades is that people have become so focused on salvation is by grace and works will do nothing they they get that theological II but they've sort of promoted it to the point where a couple of generations of serious Christians have forgotten that the work of being good is something that for 2,000 years the church not only thought about it but practiced it I think of my friend Fredrik afraid to Rika Matthews green Rod Dreher they they realized that it's it takes work it's not just well I'm saved by grace and I'm fine you're not fine you're saved by grace okay you can go to heaven but you can still be a better person and the how how to be better that's what you seem to address in your book Rod Dreher or a mutual friend deals with that in his book how Dante can save your life the idea is that you have to get serious about it and saying that I'm getting serious about being a better person or wanting to have character doesn't mean that Jesus didn't do it all on the cross but it doesn't mean that I have work to do is it safe to say that that that you agree with that you think that the way it seems that that's what your book is trying to do is trying to get people to take this issue seriously apart from the theological thing that I just said yeah a lot of my friends that are pastors I just say I'm your gateway drug they're coming to me they'll go to you but you know I think we learn from a lot of what we learn is from example so one of the characters in my book is a woman named Dorothy day who I everybody in this room knows Dorothy Day was a sort of person who when she read a novel she just couldn't read a novel she had to act out the characters and unfortunately she read a lot of Dostoevsky and so early in her life she's drinking a ton she's sleeping around on abortions two suicide attempts a very disorganized life which makes her ashamed she has a child and 40 minutes after the birth of her child she sits down to write an essay about what it was like and one of the sentence she writes at the very end is if I painted the greatest sculpture written the greatest Symphony composed the greatest novel I could not have felt the more exalted creator than I did when they placed my child in my arms and with that came a need to worship and to adore so I was out of the love for a child she said I've got a worship somebody Who am I gonna worship and that was her first introduction into faith she becomes a Catholic and then spits the rest of her life living a life of poverty trying to live a life like Jesus and so she's not only creating a homeless shelter food kitchens a radical newspaper she's living with them and she's living with them for 60 years an act of incredible self-sacrifice and the good part comes at the end when she experiences a tranquility and joy which is what I mean by inner light so the end of her life she's like 80 and she's written all her life but she never wrote a memoir and so a guy named Robert Coles at Harvard asked her wanna write a memoir and she said you know someday I thought about doing that and here's what happened I got out of blank piece of paper I wrote a life remember to the top of the page and I just sat there trying to think how do I tell my story and so I was thinking about over my life and I thought about the Lord and his visit to us those many centuries ago and I was just so grateful to have had him around my mind all that time and she said I didn't really need to write anything that's what my life was I was just grateful to have had him on my mind and so that's that's a life of that and so that's the inner spirit and that's the inner joy and that's the tranquility and so what I try to do is tell those stories and I'll tell you one thing I teach 14 readings at Yale in with this class which is really a book and I've got 24 kids in my seminar and my final assignment is pick any of the 14 readings Montaigne Samuel Johnson Pericles and pick one of the readings and apply to a problem like your own life this last term 24 students 19 of them chose Dorothy days the long loneliness as their issue because they're so impressed by her spiritual hunger and her emotional intensity and so we learned from people and so I think if you you bring lives like that to the public view then that's the way you communicate the larger message do you think that they would have chosen Dorothy day if she weren't politically liberal that I wouldn't have know do you think they they would have just saying it climate at Yale it's such a I mean all of the elite institutions if she had been you know they that's not the devalue Dorothy day obviously she was a great saint of God frankly but it's just so it's interesting that there are people out there that you you could hold out even forgive me to a Yale audience and that they would say yes not stupid I'm thinking this through first guy in this row in the family feud where is he poor guy now actually I take that back about most of them were stupid but but these are fish now these are good friends of mine terrible terrible all right but based on the family feud thing that just happened I guess I shouldn't ask my question about st. Augusta I was gonna say what do you think of st. Agustin so I think maybe let me change that question what do you think of Soupy Sales so I well I st. Augusta is the core of the book because the book is about sin and st. Agustin is the great genius of sin and what but again I'm driving for a second audience and so the way I described saying Agustin which is actually accurate was that he was like he was like my Ivy League students he was a completely successful young rhetorician who found his life was empty and he had a mom named Monica who was the helicopter mom to be tall helicopter moms and she's like hounding him you should do this you should do that you should marry her you should marry her he escapes from Africa to get away from her she takes the next boat over she follows him over to Italy it's a life of conflict and at the end of her life she's 56 and she says to him you know we fought all these years I've only wanted one thing in life for you to be a certain sort of man and a certain sort of Christian and you are those things now and so she says to him I thought I was gonna go die in Africa back home but God sees me anywhere I'm happy to die here and in nine days later she does in fact die and so he describes their final conversation which is takes place in a garden and he describes after a life of conflict how they their their voices merged together in harmony for the first time and how they rose and thought about the next life and they rose beyond things their worldly into things that were to come and then he has a long sentence which is very hard to understand but he's got one word that is repeats through that sentence and the word is hushed he says the sound of our voices was hushed the wind was hushed the sound of the birds was hushed our hearts were hushed our voices were hushed nature was hushed and you get this sense of deep peace and you don't have to be faithful or not to understand that the peace between people after a life of conflict and so that's I think what people are hungry for in their life the you the resume side of our life there the ambitions are never satisfied there's always something out there but the spiritual the eulogy side there are moments of gee peace and tranquility and I think everyone of all faiths of all political stripes is hungry for that and they get that they so they're drawn to that if you can provide examples of how it's done and Agustin had to go through a life struggle to get there but he got there even you know it's why we're here it's why the New Canaan society exists because we all want to be better fathers husbands in some rare cases haberdashers there's two here even the guys that were on this stage who are my friends this is why we're here because we we care about that we we want to be better but I do think that somehow and you don't have to speak specifically to this but it's just observation that in in in modern-day evangelicalism I guess I can call it I feel that we really have focused so much on grace that we've turned away from the hard work that Paul Young shared yesterday about about having to to heal himself from all this brokenness because we have lost this moral vocabulary so I guess my question is why do you think we lost that moral vocabulary you say in the middle of the twentieth century at some time we sort of stopped talking about sin or maybe really just talking about the 60s it was wiped away but what what do you think happened and why did this happen it happened in late 40s and it was the erasure of that word sin Eisenhower was particularly religious but he grew up aware of his own sinfulness same with George Marshall wanted another figure in the book and in 1940's they'd been through the depression they've been through World War two and they decided we're just going to turn the page first thing we're gonna do is we're gonna spend on ourselves consumption just shoots up in the late 40s then there are a whole series of books that's let's say I'm gonna write a new 10 commandments it's gonna say thou shalt love thy self thou shalt accept thy self well let me just rude you said the late 40s do you think prosperity has something to do with that in other words that that America was so strong and so great and so prosperous it would seem to me that that had to have something to do with the fall right and they've just been through the war and they'd seen oceans of blood and they just wanted to turn the page and so they became very optimistic so the book they called the mature mind that said thou shalt love thy self that was number one on the New York Times bestseller list for 56 weeks there's a market for that then a book called the power of positive thinking comes out number 198 straight weeks then dr. Spock comes out with his childcare book where he says if your child steal something just give him what he stole and tell him he can get whatever he desires that's a reasonably optimistic view of human nature and so they had that and then so then it takes off and I was talking about my book on on Charlie Rose like six months ago and I used the word sin and a very top New York editor called me and said I love the way you talked about your book but don't use the word sin it's so icky and he said use the word insensitive instead and so I called my editor and he said well that's why we're talking we writing the book because we need to reintroduce that word but so I had it struggle how do I introduce the word sin to a secular audience and I don't think he'd mind that I'm mentioning that one of my counselors through this was Tim Keller and Tim said well I do it through the concept of disordered loves that we all love a lot of things and we all know that some things are higher than others and that if you like if your friend tells you a secret and you blab it at a dinner party you're putting your love of popularity above your love of friendship and we all know that's wrong and that's where you can talk about sin to the whole country without talking about depravity without talking about original sin just talking about disordered loves getting your loves out of order and so there have to be ways to talk about this to reintroduce this stuff into the public square and to me the shift came you know in the 1950s even there's Reinhold Niebuhr there's Abraham Joshua Heschel there are a lot of theologians in the public square it's very hard now I think maybe Keller there's a guy named Rabbi Jonathan Sacks maybe oz Guiness they're very few in the public square maybe you and with they're very few and that's a hollowness in our public culture well it's interesting because you know as you're talking and as I'm reading your book I realize that there are very few people and Christians are very guilty of this but we have really Christians have participated secularizing the culture by compartmentalizing faith and by saying we're all about theology and and religion and if anything isn't theologically pure we want nothing to do with it now that's not to say that theology isn't important but if you say that you're gonna be in a tiny corner by yourself and so we've effectively abandoned the mainstream and participated in creating a culture without a moral vocabulary because we have in a sense insisted that that moral vocabulary be something we I guess as I'm hearing you talk you realize that if if we are created in in God's image and God created the world which I know that he did then truth is truth and reality is reality and it's inescapable and every human being whether he rejects God or doesn't we'll have to deal with this kind of thing and by describing it sort of as you do in in a somewhat secular way it's not really secular but it's secular enough that it's palatable to a secular world you're you're inviting them into a reality and I guess the reason I'm excited about the book is that I really do think that by inviting people into this reality which is it's a universal reality it's not a religious reality you're sort of encouraging them sort of to look with you at something and I really think that in doing that many people will find God I don't think that we have to first make the theological point now you could be really really good and it's not going to get you to heaven I don't I don't think that's always necessary and so the fact that you do that I think is groundbreaking let me just say one thing this is I went to this past winter I went to a group called The Gathering in Orlando and I gave a talk which meant a lot to me and it was called ramps and walls and it was things the Christian world a lot of people are circling around with spiritual wandering inure searchers and there are some things the Christian world and specifically the evangelical world does to build ramps to those people so they can come in and something the world does to build walls to push them out the ramps are just the light of certain personalities the the you know I have a friend Monsignor raised Catholic priest in Anacostia he just radiates joy he's just super attractive and that's a great message and the other thing that Christian world does that I think is a ramp is is talk about matters of values in an honest way when we're talking about poverty when we're talking about what happened in Baltimore it's not only about economics there's also values issues and I think the Christian world does very good on that the walls are often the self segregation and what I would call a mixture of an intellectual inferiority complex combined with a spiritual superiority complex and some and as the intellectual inferiority complex is sometimes we're not going to compete on the realm of ideas and sometimes we're gonna be too nice to ourselves we want to be so supportive of ourselves we won't demand the highest intellectual standards and we were talking a table about Wheaton College which I'm a huge fan of I think it's one of the best schools in America and and that's intellectual standards no Jim Elaine went to Wheaton yeah I did that we did happen to mention that but you know I I went around the college I run around the country with while I was writing this book talking to a lot of different faculties and I talked to him yell Divinity School Columbia the best group by far was that Wheaton because they were used to applying the lessons of theology to practical questions of life and it wasn't just an academic exercise for them but too often in the Christian world the the the kindness overcomes intellectual rigor and the spiritual superiority just it's the back of people's neck up how as a as somebody writing about these issues where you write about them can you talk a little bit about the blowback that you have gotten I just assumed that even by using a word like sin or talking about character that it gets certain people it gets their back up and they they would accuse you of you know shoving your religion their throats even though you're not even talking really about religion what what has that been due to things I did a bunch of events for strange reasons with hedge fund guys in the world of finance in New York and there was like a lot of them loved it their wives really loved it but the guys were a little anxious about it and one of the guys came up to me after a talk and he said you know you just make me feel guilty and you know I live my life by a certain standard I'm happy with myself I don't really need to hear this and actually one of my students after taking the class he said you know I love this class but since taking it I'm a lot sadder which I took is a high compliment that's like what I'm trying to do and but so there's some blowback about that and then there just is and you know I'm there's just a lot of hostility religion in the culture there just the idea that somebody could be faithful rubs a lot of people the wrong way and so it's like I've been stopped in the radio call-in shows just the level of the waves of hostility about that it's from a minority but it's out there well we live in a pretty secular culture and so I'm not surprised so I I want to commend you for your courage in writing about this I think that where you are to write about this is it is courageous I'll say one thing having taught at Yale now over a long stretch of time it used to be religion was something they were embarrassed about then five years ago was something they were neutral about now it's a sign of coolness if you're if you're religious it's a sign that you are have some spiritual depth going on there and my students admire it in the kids who are they who are Orthodox Christians Orthodox Jews who are out and we're just talking about it honestly my kids admire those kids I'm staggered to hear that that is great there's good news that's really good news we promised David that we would get him in a cab about five minutes from now so I'll ask one final question when you were referring to Tim Keller and him talking about disordered loves immediately I thought of CS Lewis because most of us who read till Tim Keller's work know that he really has ripped off Lewis for it's decades now and what's amazing is in shameless about it he appears to have no conscience and I'm so glad he's not here but he the thing is that Lewis Lewis is so great CS Lewis is so great that I realized Tim Keller wouldn't be Tim Keller CS Lewis had not existed because Louis to me is that rare he brought an entire literature into the world not just a book or something like that and if I guess just to editorialize one of the reasons to be pro-life as you think that there's one person if he hadn't existed I it's unfathomable to me how different the world would be because how many people have been affected but I know that Lewis is someone whose works have been part of shaping your thinking on this tell us about your introduction to Lewis what books of his you like at how what kind of influence he's had on you personally well first you know I'm someone who rips off Tim Keller so we call it research we don't really call it stealing but you know the first thing the first thing I say to all my students if you want to learn to write well read to people CS Lewis and George Orwell's essays and they both are extremely clear writers because they wrote for radio and they wrote for the listen word and one of the things Lewis teaches you is never use a big word pompous word when a simple word will do and so he stole that from me be white we stole it from Moses look at you mr. c-span Jesus over here I guess I just want to say Moses stole it from Zipporah but so Lois was just a great writer but but so he'll say he'll never he doesn't use sort soul he'll say you have a core piece of yourself which is the piece that makes decisions and when you make decisions that are beautiful you turn that core piece into something nicer when you make disorganized and disciplined decisions you degrade that core piece and that's just an easy way to talk about the soul that it welcomes you in and I would say for me one of the things I love I mean there are all sorts of ways one learns from faith he read Agustin this probably the smartest human being I've ever encountered you read there's a guy named Joseph soloveitchik we rely on the book of rabbi who's so emotionally rich and then but Luis is he discovered faith that there's the new biography a lot of people have probably read because it just explained the world and the we all probably in this room know the description of his religion his conversion in surprised by joy to to discover faith in a moment of ecstasy is great to discover faith in a moment of tragedy is redeeming I would highly recommend Michele out of people have read severe mercy by Sheldon van Hagen and but to have experienced it as a mode of understanding shows that reading and thinking can be a morally and spiritually uplifting enterprise it's not just for information it's not just so you can manage well it can be a way of hardening yourself and forming your soul and so for Louis I think he's a bit of an example of that and another character in my book Samuel Johnson is the same I'll ask you one very quick question and then we're gonna escort you out so you can get home quickly david has this crazy idea that it needs to spend time with his family I do apologize I'm on book tours where we're all about that really that's kind of why we're away from our families this weekend but final question death have you come to terms with the prospect of your own death no I mean you know I'm I'm reasonably young 53 I hope I would say I haven't I would say the things that have changed me in the last couple years or to one these moments of joy but then there have been moments of suffering and we all go through them and then there have been moments of love and what suffering does there's a Paul Tillich a great theologian and I highly recommend reading a book called shaking the foundations a series of sermons by him he says what suffering does those moments of suffering when you've lost a loved one or a job or romantic love is it takes you been it takes you beneath the everydayness of life and reminds you you're not the person you thought you were it carves into the basement of your soul through the floor revealing a cavity below and then it carves through that revealing a cavity below and so what suffering does is it really introduces your to yourself and the activity that often goes along with suffering is love love dissenters itself it humbles you because you're not in control to your mind it makes you fuse with another and all of these things in many age open up heart ground and reveal vulnerable parts and I think going to a religious service does that as well and so I confess I have not thought about my death I think it's I'm aging backwards I'm Benjamin Button I've got another 70 years no I'm completely self deluded about that but I do think in the middle of life even if you're not fully prepared for death you can be fully prepared for the life that involves the full panoply of emotion of love of suffering and to leave life in this spiritually awakened manner and so that's more or less what I'm going through not not preparing for the ultimate well we're gonna part the Red Sea so that you can get to your cab and just before we do that I think an NCS round of applause for our guest David Brooks

Channel: New Canaan Society

Views: 9,530

Rating: 4.6666665 out of 5

Keywords: Eric Metaxas (Author), David Brooks (Author), New Canaan Society, Washington, 2015

Id: qLx34azwvvY

Length: 40min 1sec (2401 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 25 2015