Dune (1984) and Dune (2021) - re:View

hello and welcome to another review I'm with Colin he's back it's been like two years yeah yeah it's good to be back and it's exciting because we're going to talk about finally we're going to talk about Dune great we're gonna compare and contrast the David Lynch Dune to the new Dune oh I I thought we're just doing the David Lynch tune no no we're going to talk about both the David Lynch one and the new Danny Villeneuve film which everybody's been asking us about I haven't seen that one you haven't seen the new one yet no oh um hold on here I have HBO Max on my phone oh sweet so I'll pull it up we'll just watch it real quick and then we'll have that in Canada oh okay we'll just watch it real quick and then we'll then we'll talk about it here you go this week [Music] [Music] how long is it uh it's like two and a half hours oh all right it's not too bad [Music] foreign [Music] what are you reading Dune oh you're in the classic Frank Herbert novel huh no no it's the uh it's a picture book for babies oh I don't know why that's so funny well Colin we're talking about do yeah talk about Dune and everybody talk about Doom tell me about Dune well you know we're kind of joking about this but this is uh apparently I was a big fan of Dune when I was a pre-teen I've had this since 1984. this is like the Marvel adaptation of of the David Lynch movie in in picture form but you know you know if you didn't know you'd think oh this is a smart man reading a reading a novel and uh also I found out that I was also a Garfield fan uh when I was a young young man this book is protected by an attack cat David there's going to be a new Garfield movie with Chris Pratt is David Lynch direct and David Lynch is directing it oddly enough I think Chris Pratt's doing the voice for pretty much every uh cartoon character now yeah yeah Mario ethnicity Mario Luigi any sort of anime when they do the American dub he's doing all the voices but he's doing it in like a Japanese accent yeah it's a little weird it's pretty racist yeah he's gonna have his like name in that font [Laughter] um but we're talking about dude how dare you uh we're talking about both Dunes students because uh Dune on its own people have been asking us to make a video about Dune the new Villeneuve Dune right and my review is it's very good yeah I liked it a lot you saw it on HBO Max yeah I did not go to a filthy disgusting movie theater to see it I watched that HBO backs uh you saw it in IMAX not in IMAX it was one of those films that you know I'm a dune fan and I love Danny Villeneuve and you know I saw blade runner 2049 and IMAX and loved it uh it was one of those things it's the only way I want it to see it yeah you know even if I had it available you know at home I would want to see it in IMAX um yeah and my first viewing of it was a friend house on a 42-inch TV with just the TV speakers and I still thought it was very good that's a good sign okay it's a movie that holds up so it's not relying solely on the visuals or audio no but the thing is uh I I'm not like you've read the books and everything right just the first one oh okay yeah I never got into the sequels my brother was a big fan so he kind of when he moved out he left all of his Dune books so I've got them all on my bookshelf at home okay people think of me you know well read but I've only read the the first one but uh you've seen the David Lynch one I have yeah I that's what interests me about Dune is not so much like because we're not going to talk about the story like it's Dune you know it it's very dense in lore so if you want to get into that you can yeah well that's that's why I think it's been so famously hard to adapt is uh lots of characters lots of Warring factions lots of weird little details uh and it is weird which is why it's interesting to look at these two movies and kind of compare and contrast because in the David Lynch version of Dune he takes the weird things and really escalates them ramps them up and in the Villa new version he takes the weird things and treats them as if they're not weird he presents them it's not weird very unrealistic yeah so that's kind of the interesting thing to talk about is not something much the plot because everybody knows Dune but just two very uh different talented filmmakers taking the same material and doing it completely differently yeah and like their approach like Danny villanov uh you know he's a self-professed dune fan like he's loved the the books and stuff since he was a kid David Lynch I don't think had even read Dune when he took the job I don't know if David Lynch has ever read a book period or seen a movie he's just doing his own or seeing sculptures or paintings he just creates these things whatever yeah but it's funny because he turned down um Return of the Jedi and there's that famous video of him talking about meeting George Lucas that is so funny and I came into an office and there was George and he he talked with me for a little bit and then he said I want to show you something now right about in this time I started getting a little bit of a headache he took me upstairs and he showed me these things called Wookies and now this headache is getting you know getting stronger we went to a restaurant not that I don't like salad but that's all they had was was yeah thank you then I got a really uh almost like a migraine headache and that would have been before Dune it was 83 that was returned the Jedi was 83. yeah so yeah he turned that down and then for some reason decided Dune was okay it's like the quiz act had a rack or what the [ __ ] well that makes more sense I'll do this one it's yeah it's uh because the danieval a new one you get the impression that yeah he just understands this world for sure it's uh very like he treats it all very real and grounded like as if he was making a you know like a movie set on Earth about normal people but it but it's in this Grand scope yeah David Lynch like has no business directing a mega Blockbuster no and he did and that makes it an uh like an interesting yeah like his whole career it's just so strange it's like why did this happen it'll never happen again well no I I don't think he wants anything to do with yeah he's that type of filmmaking anymore but it's just weird I wonder what led him to do that and whether it was something that he wanted to I mean like Elephant Man was like a big success for him I think that's kind of it is that he did you know Eraserhead and then elephant man that was a you know critical darling Academy Award nominated so maybe I don't know maybe Dino DiLaurentis is very charismatic I talked him into you know doing this because be but it's it's uh yeah we're gonna make a good movie but it's Chris Pratt doing that voice Chris Pratt is Dino uh somehow in in Dino's mind put um The Elephant Man together with with Dune and um Dune took three years to make start to finish um but it was a nightmare and it was a nightmare yeah so I wonder if he just got talked into it or if it was something that you know he wanted to push himself and see if he could you know do this sort of thing I think his the lesson he learned from that is I'm never doing that [ __ ] again yeah it was a nightmare and it's great too because like if it wasn't for the astronomical failure of that movie yeah if it was like a big success you know maybe he would have continued making these big movies so the fact that it was a big bomb set him off to go and do uh blue velvet and set his career on the path that it's gone on because he met Kyle McLaughlin um I'm wondering because Jose Ferreira is the Emperor we're talking about this and Miguel Ferrer is his son so I wonder if that was the start of maybe just like met him on the set or something like that could be yeah but like uh uh Everett McGill uh went out to be on Twin Peaks and Brad Dourif is in blue velvet and the little creepy kid I'm afraid my brother won't be very pleased his child she's an Abomination oh creepy kid is Alicia who I think was in uh Twin Peaks yeah yeah she was uh on Twin Peaks as uh Larson Boyle's little sister doing not having that voice though no not having a weird dubbed over boys that was really creepy oh God Almighty there's so many creepy things in this movie it's disgusting it well yeah since we're on the David Lynch version it famously uh was not received well it was a giant knob um I avoided seeing it for the longest time right I'm a huge David Lynch fan but I had read you know books and interviews and stuff where it just sounded like the worst experience it was a nightmare so I had it in my mind that it was a much worse movie than it actually is I watched it last year for the first time in the height of the pandemic it was like Now's the Time I guess yeah so I watched it and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it I I have a soft spot for it so it's it's definitely flawed and I went into it with that absolutely in mind so I think it was just sort of like compared to what I was expecting it was much better than that and it's kind of like like you said it's an anomaly in his career because it's like this it's like David Lynch's Lawrence of Arabia like it's this huge thing and the effects are amazing there's tons of the product production design is fantastic Miniatures and uh forced perspective and it's a lot of great shots of like establishing shots of like the spaceships with like you know the armies of people uh that really hold up well some of the worm stuff uh scale wise doesn't hold up you know it kind of like looks like Miniatures but for the most part it works very well I think a lot of the blue screen doesn't hold up at the end you know there's there's a ton of wonky effects in the movie but that's gorgeous because of the era it was made in yeah but that was like a 40 million dollar movie back then which was crazy the same budget is Enemy Mine a movie a movie with two guys sitting around a campfire yeah that's crazy but to put it in perspective aliens had like a 16 million dollar budget oh my God and I think yeah it was supposed to be much cheaper I think it ended up being 40 million you know huge opulent like sets and uh I love the costumes amazing score by Toto yeah well that's another one of those is eccentric which is choices I know but it works I love it I love the theme Brian Eno I think helped out with one of the songs yeah when he's having his like visions of like the water dropping he's credited for yeah something yeah it's like this amazing kind of like ambient music it's really nice it's like something I would put on for sure you get like the rock guitar I don't know yeah and like yeah like I said the uh the score that's an unusual choice to have the rock band Toto Africa to the score and there's so many weird choices in the movie yeah that really make it feel like a David Lynch movie which I honestly wasn't expecting I was expecting to feel more like a you know Studio mishandled like director for hire kind of thing he kind of still comes through I think all the production design is great I love how specific and intricate all the different uh fractions are as far as their their wardrobe and I love the uh um what are the the Baron von fart bag his organization the harconans or Harkins as they say in the new movie but uh how did their uh their kind of world is so industrial yeah David Lynch and so there's all these great kind of like artistic choices that are very bold which is another contrast to the new movie because the new movie's so minimal uh but the biggest failing is that it was kind of taken away from him and and you got to get it under two hours this is like two hours sixteen it's a little over two hours that was the studio mandate but the biggest mistake was trying to do it all in one movie yeah because the the last I don't know 40 minutes of the movie just completely falls apart yeah that's like a whole other movie's worth of story to tell and well that was the interesting thing about the new one is it it ends pretty much right where the David Lynch movie completely goes off the rails yeah as soon as he meets the fremin like Everett Mcgill and Sean Young that's where the movie they realize okay we've got to finish this up it's like a speed run we have 30 40 minutes and it's like none of them are characters so Sean Young is barely a character in this movie they they get introduced to each other or in Kyle McLaughlin and then the next scene they're madly in love yeah and then it's four years later and then uh Paul has a little sister now where'd she come from I don't know well you see when two people love one another very much and put the uh put oh is that how that works yeah so that was a weird uh why didn't the movie explain this to me it should have it explains everything else it's a narration and inner monologue which is another choice now okay so the studio mandated uh two hour 16 run time something like that I don't think Dino DiLaurentis really stood up for David Lynch she said okay yeah what the studio say making a movie the two hour I'm a Chris Pratt yeah the Chris are fat I mean yeah um so you know David Lynch I don't think even got to he didn't have Final Cut on this movie which he said he'll never ever ever do again uh if there's any anything like you know Dave Lynch movie should not be getting notes or I think if you were to take any of his other movies after this and give him to a studio four notes they won't even know what to tell you to do like what am I watching yeah so I think he was kind of forced to you know do a cut he never got to do a director's cut well he doesn't want anything to do with the movie after the yeah the experience of making it yeah you really can't but another one of those choices is the inner monologue you know everybody is saying what they're thinking Monday I will have to do this Jim never has a second cup of coffee at home and I don't know if that was as a result of cutting it down to that length and it did not make sense yeah so then they didn't have any footage of people saying this stuff so they just added this inner monologue everybody's constantly everything you know what's funny is it it's a less comprehensible movie than the new version even with constantly trying to explain what's it almost makes it worse as far as understanding what's happening which is it's like tenet yeah just stop talking explains everything and it just makes it I I still don't know what's happening and I really don't care yeah well that's the big thing too is when I first watched Dune I knew that I know the book and I know it's this really dense thing with all this stuff going on so the movie's just constantly trying to keep you up to speed yeah and sometimes it's like stuff that's already like I can infer what's going on just based on the events of the movie but then you have like the first time I tried to watch Steven was in high school because I was starting to get into David Lynch and I knew it was kind of a disastrous movie so I started it on VHS and uh Virginia Madsen starts talking to the camera and almost immediately is like never mind maybe I'll come back to this someday you didn't like the fading in and fading out that is travel to any part of the universe without moving oh yes I forgot to tell you I that's the weirdest thing is like it's almost like a joke where it's like oh she's done explaining fade out and then it just Fades right back up and she keeps talking and then she forgets she's explaining the universe to forgive the speed it fades out and she's like oh yes before I forget oh I almost forgot one thing and then it fades back in it's it is like a joke it's like what is happening in re-watching it though uh because what are the things that the new one does so greatly is really make the story make sense for someone like me that hasn't read the books and doesn't understand all the all the details of everything but in a very natural way like the exposition you know you can you see movies where the scripts are you know two characters are talking they're talking about their backstory hey remember when like blah blah and oh yeah and then you did this blah blah they say uh like when a villain explains his plot and he says as you know as you know audience yeah um but it's gonna be trust its audience to get what's going on and that explains it all without it feeling expositioning it does it all in a very natural way just with the characters talking and you know not necessarily saying anything sometimes to sort of showing thing trusting everybody to get it yeah so you go back to the Lynch one you have that narration and then it opens with goes right from that to another scene of you know the emperor meeting the spacing Guild they're asking the emperor what the plot is so he explains his grand plan yeah you know he's going to have the Atreides take over from the harkenings on Dune uh and then he's going to double cross them he doesn't like the that the Atreides are becoming more popular and he's like a threatened by them yeah so he's going to double cross them and wipe them out and then you're like what the [ __ ] is this thing in like the tank I do love uh the design of of the creature uh when they kind of wheel this thing in I wanted to ask you about this yeah tell me if I'm correct in understanding what the [ __ ] this cancerous tumor thing is if you had if you uh ingest or have too much exposure to spice it like mutates you over time okay so these are the The Navigators yeah the spacing guilds Navigators so uh yeah they're they're kind of like swimming in this like gaseous tank of spice and they've been exposed to it for so long that they've mutated and kind of develop uh the ability to see into the future um but they're not supposed to be as deformed like they're actually humans yeah uh but they're supposed to be more humanoid I think in the book they just kind of have flippers and because they're they're kind of swimming they don't really need their limbs anymore yeah David Lynch decided to push that uh you know but he but they're also responsible for space travel right when they're vomiting light in this movie yeah that's them sending people through space yeah right so the implication is that they're the ones kind of uh folding space to allow a kind of like interplanetary travel okay but it's actually the ships that they're in those big cylindrical ships um they have like hyper drives I forget what Holtzman drives okay they're the ones from the the Ghostbusters 2016. yes definitely McKinnon's character did she design these uh yeah she did oh yeah um so yeah The Navigators are the ones so in hyperspace travel you uh can't adjust like you can't avoid objects like planets so The Navigators can see into the future and kind of choose the best route and avoid you know running head first into a planet or something like that okay the the spices actually needed it's necessary for space travel without it uh you know nobody would be able to travel anywhere I'll trade wood cease in the universe and the uh the Villeneuve version he just said you know what let's just not show none of that is important this is a faithful adaptation but let's skip the space tumors yeah which I think he's probably holding off for the second one which is probably smart you know you can't overload the audience with all these things I think yeah that's a again with the new one what it does so well is yeah it is introducing all this stuff and all these different groups of characters uh without it feeling overwhelming or confusing yeah because in the David Lynch one when they wheel in that giant testicle you're like what and I love that my favorite thing is they have these guys in the back with these giant shop facts and they're like they're vacuuming up all the kind of slime and sludge on the ground you see that and they wheel it out and they kind of like do this half-assed cleaning job the emperor's floor is just covered and all this slime and goop but that's a great little detail he's not just putting weird stuff in for the sake of being like he's put thought into this yeah that makes it it's just completely bizarre it's just a really funny image and I can just like imagine the emperor being really pissed off right now I gotta call the maids in to clean this place up we're supposed to have a party tonight um and then from that scene it goes directly into Paul uh looking at his iPad Kyle McLaughlin and then the iPad series like telling him he's explaining more stuff yeah like who the different factions are you know and you see they do that in the new version too basically yeah but it feels more like organic to the story yeah it's like three scenes in a row in the Lynch one that's just Exposition you know and the iPad is even saying like uh it's like the house harkonians are the sworn enemies of a trades of the the baron hardcoden swore he'll take the signet's ring from the duke or the Signet ring from yeah do something to try and make it make sense yeah it's just really funny it's just so like overloaded in front end whereas like I feel the villain one like kind of gradually kind of brings you into this world and I think he kind of knew what to include what not to include um I almost feel like I could have done with a longer movie uh in the vlnew of one and I think it uh it didn't feel long at all no it's two and a half hours and it feels shorter than the David Lynch version smile Gurney I am smiling the seals the representation of their Shields is is an interesting to kind of side by side between the two boots it is I I you know the second the field of one is much much better well it's like the minimalism of it where exactly you see it kind of glow for a second and then it's not even there you understand everything and I think uh the field of one must have been PG I think because I don't remember any blood or violence in it really but they kind of you know when they're sword fighting and then somebody gets stabbed The Shield goes red yeah you know so to sort of indicate that they're dead it did make me wonder maybe this is something that's explained better in the books in both versions I was confused about the effectiveness of the Oasis of the snow Bay the slow blade penetrates the shield okay so if you throw like a rock at somebody it'll kind of bounce off but if you get close to them and slowly push it through so it makes the shields feel almost completely pointless well if you're using like projectile weapons but that's why they all use swords and everything is like close combat yeah um and I kind of liked that idea that everyone's using blades I think uh they say in the book that the laser weapons are kind of useless because they can make the shield explode they react with the Shields and kill everybody so they tend not to use those okay um yeah I kind of like that you know it kind of conveys it but the Lynch one it's an interesting effect but it's so it's hard see what is going on it's just these geometric shapes yeah it looks like cartoonish it looks like a very early CGI or something but it could be because this is right around the era of like uh was it Young Sherlock Holmes famously the first kind of it was yeah CG character or something but I think I watched a video and they said it was all hand drawn and rotoscoped so I guess they it's like used a ruler and Drew all those geometric shapes but it makes it impossible to see what's happening uh or even like here like they're so distorted yeah you know um so it doesn't really work for the story but it's kind of just like a neat effect I mean I know they use them extensively in the new one but I feel like I don't remember seeing those boxy geometric shapes much in the Jason momoa's character in The Lynch one which I think was I forget the guy's name um he gets killed and I think when I was gonna ask if that character was even in the Lynch one because they never say his name they kind of like them once it's an Aquaman yeah and his name is Dunkin Donuts was it like Duncan Idaho is that from the book yeah that feels out of place in the rest of the movie the rest of the movie feels so like legitimately kind of alien like this other world and then you just have a character Duncan Duncan Idaho Johnny Hollywood Johnny uh yeah so Richard Jordan I think his name is he gets killed instantly so I think he turns on the shield and then is instantly killed by a dart to the forehead yeah it's like he's not even a character he's not a character I bet the effect was too expensive and there's like yeah let's not use that Atlanta just looks so awkward you can't have like an exciting action scene with these these the Legos running around yeah and you can't see anything yeah all right whatever yeah I like the way that was done in the in the villain thing much more it was handled much better yeah I think every everything kind of was handled a lot better well it's I mean obviously we said like the the Lynch one you can't complain about the opticals too much because they're just a product of their time but for sure uh one thing that we always mention in videos now is like newer movies you don't even really talk about the special effects anymore because every movie has amazing special effects but this movie is a great example the new one is a great example of like yes every movie has realistic good looking effects but what's impressive is how they're utilized and like his shot choices and there's always this like great sense of scale to everything yeah and weight like the way the the sand worms are handled like uh the idea that it's not just that the sand worms are a threat but like the vibrations from their movements like essentially liquefies the sand so you're like sinking in so like that's a problem too yeah and just like you can tell there's all this thought put into to like that stuff and the technology and it's just so everything feels really natural without kind of calling attention to itself yeah almost like Blade Runners or something yeah it never feels like uh you know showing off it's just like yeah presenting it as if they were presenting you know anything a war movie set on Earth for sure yeah um yeah there's nothing about it feels artificial at all like you buy everything and even like the first hour I just thought was so incredible like you just feel like you're there with all these characters and the design and it wasn't I was worried that it would be too dry thank you Mr for the gift of your body's moisture yeah it really isn't I mean you have some humor but it's more like character-based humor yeah this character's kind of talking without like like Marvel one-liner Duncan kind of like you know mixes it up a little he's got some some jokes because he's Jason Momoa it's the character and it's never pushed too far it's not over yeah yeah uh even he was like more subdued um who was the who played very hard Conan in the Lynch one Kevin MacMillan I don't know the actor's name but oh my God I I loved the presentation of Baron von fart bag in the day of Adventure one it's pushed so far to the extreme it's so grotesque oh every scene the first time we see him he's got these like pustules on his face and they're like sucking out the puzz there's uh and I I can't remember what the scene is but there's like if you were to take a scene in the Lynch one it's like 20 30 seconds out of context I'm just looking on its own it's when Paul Smith is his like assistant guy yeah Blue Devil from the blue from Popeye when he walks in and there's an upside down Cow and he rips out its tongue and starts chewing it and then we cut to the baron just spit in in a circle if you just look at that clip with no contest Jack Nance has some like dial that he's like it looks like some old 1950s sci-fi you know contraption that was those 30 seconds are what they call Pure Cinema but the the cow thing is upside down and then there's like a dwarf like electrocuting it with like a taser or something what is happening I wanted to mention that there's a lot of animal stuff in the David Lynch one because there's also the cat Okay so this is I'd forgotten about this and I don't know how I forgot about it because it's so memorable sting it's like carrying around a like a hairless cat or something it's a really short hair cat I don't think it's completely hairless it's in this like harness it's kind of hanging from this thing and then there's a rat tied to tied to it yeah um so they've kidnapped the uh it's like the house ment out of and trade the atrates house uh thufer uh they've kidnapped him and poisoned him and so he has to milk the Cat every day and drink its milk if he wants to live to kind of counteract the poison and it's never brought up again never brought up again by milking this this smooth little cat's body you receive your antidote and I don't even think you see that character again for until I don't know maybe the end I don't think he says anything yeah so there's that there's the cow and then there's the Pug uh Patrick Stewart goes into battle with the pug there's a scene in The Emperor's Palace at the beginning where somebody is walking about like seven or eight Bulldogs um and then the house of tradies has all the pugs so I guess it was like a sign of I know those types of dogs were famous with like royalty would always have these dogs um so maybe it was like a little nod I got a little thought put into that if that's the case yeah but I just love the fact that Patrick Stewart at the end is running into battle with this pug screaming it's like a famous green grab yeah I did hope if you were I I knew there was not going to be any nods to the Lynch version in the new one but no there was a moment when I was hoping when they're in their like dragonfly ships and they're and they're flying over the uh spice Harvester as like if they cut to David Lynch in that space Harvester we are coming down to take you off the Harvester all support us in order to comply ordered by whom reprising is cameo from the original movie it would be Denny Villeneuve no it would be David Lynch playing the same character that would have made by day but I knew that wasn't loading the space but that's another sequence where it's like if you look at them side by side it's almost the exact same sequence all directly from the book I think from a certain point on the movies kind of sync up and like you know plot beats um and then they kind of diverge I think once they kind of Meet the fremin and then the Lynch one just goes off the rails but yeah they're kind of amazing we don't have that part of the story from for sure yet so which is very weird um I'm kind of wondering because you know unless you you're familiar with the story or know a lot of the behind the scenes stuff on the Danny one I I don't think the average Joe would even know this is just a part one because they don't advertise it as that no in the actual movie at the beginning it does say Dune part one half a second it's very brief it is so fast and it's yeah it's different than like uh well first of all it's weird that they made it without even knowing if they were going to be able to make the second one which is mind-boggling that's a that's a crazy choice but I'm not familiar with the Dune story outside of the David Lynch movie going into the new one that was all I knew um and it doesn't really have even though it is a part one it doesn't really have any sort of conclusion now that it needs a solid but I compared to like the Lord of the Rings like The Fellowship of the Rings they kind of felt like individual movies yeah you know there's a larger story going on but it still feels like a satisfying movie and this one really doesn't it sort of it ends very abruptly yeah even down to the last shot when I first watched it with some friends because it's just I'm walking away from the camera it's like at the very least cut to like a massive wide shot showing them all walking in the bottom of the frame it's just like everyone's just walking away and they're like I guess we're maybe like you know cut back to like Baron har Conan or something like that like yeah hinting at what's going to come next or you know whatever but yeah I can see a lot of people uh if somebody was saying like you know a lady in the theater yelled out like is that it like she had no idea that it was just a part one yeah but yeah it's like not on the poster so to the average Joe this would this would seem very kind of incomplete I think so it's kind of hard to judge as a movie I think that's experience was in amazing but yeah yeah knowing that the second part is coming there'll be less of a complaint when they're both out of course for sure yeah and I think you know you can't kind of take one without the other the other end of the spectrum is say like the Matrix Reloaded oh which was like completely out of left field that literally ends with a Dun Dun Dun I couldn't believe it I was so angry and everyone in the theater was like what the [ __ ] most of the people in my theater had fallen asleep by that point so they didn't even notice um I can see like people fans of the novel being more satisfied um yeah some complaints are that you know some favorite characters kind of get shortchanged like Josh Brolin or Dr UA or whatever but you know we may see them it's an adaptation it's okay to change things you gotta cut yeah you gotta milk if you want just add more weird [ __ ] or cut back on the weird [ __ ] and streamline the story I wonder if that was like the the attraction for Lynch it's like oh yeah the Bernhard Conan scenes [ __ ] amazing when I read the novel the first thing I thought of was a cat in a cage that you have to milk and that was as impetus to do the whole movie for sure surprise me who cares about the other [ __ ] Brad Dourif in there he's like such a creep I love him yeah all those scenes were just so wonderful you can tell that David Lynch's heart is really more in that's the dark Conan's yeah more interested in the creepy weird yeah disgusting stuff like some of his assistants had like their ears stitched up and then his eyes and then they had these like little tubes poking at their eyeballs it was like oh God and that's the thing is like an all measurable levels I think you the new Dune is a much much better movie yeah but that also kind of makes it a less interesting movie to me than all the the weird [ __ ] that's in the Lynch movie for sure it's like the same way like jodorowski's Dune uh it sounded insane I don't know whether it would be a very good adaptation of that novel I I think and I know when that documentary came out people were like oh we were robbed of this amazing sci-fi Masterpiece that movie would have been a [ __ ] disaster oh my God if it was actually made it would be a giant I like jodorowski but he's very charismatic and you know it's one of those documentaries where you just want to hear him talk and yeah as an adaptation of that novel it would have been I think even even just as a movie it would have been oh yeah just like [ __ ] crazy nobody would have seen that yeah uh I would like to have seen that movie made just because well sure just as an oddity yeah well that's I mean even like the Lynch one is an oddity now because it's kind of notoriously a giant flop but yeah there's so many odd choices in it which makes it interesting it's fine it's like it's almost like a comfort movie for me because I grew up watching it and I watched it many many times before I even read the novel so I didn't have any idea of like the hate towards it okay you know I there was nothing to complain about as far as the story went because I didn't know the story of Dune and blah blah blah but it was kind of clear when it ends though when he makes Paul an actual God yeah that was not what was in the novel at all it's like the opposite of what well I wanted to ask you about that uh because one of the kind of complaints about the Dune story and especially with it being the new adaptation people are like oh it's another the chosen one story yeah and that was kind of my thought when watching the Lynch movie where I was like as because the chosen one kind of archetype is so it kind of robs the character of agency and kind of for sure lessens the stakes because it's like oh they're destined to do this it's just not interesting what I did not know and what you told me is that that's not really the case in the books it's the opposite of that so the book was kind of like Frank Herbert's warning uh to people about blindly putting their faith behind this charismatic leaders um and you know claiming them as like Messiahs and the whole point of the the book was that Paul's not a messiah he just has this gift of foresight you can see the future um and that the Benny Jesuit have actually planted these stories Across the Universe of the prophecy and they were meant to you know create the quizak hadarak through manipulating Bloodlines but lady Jessica kind of defied them and gave birth to Paul so he kind of arrived on the scene a generation earlier and kind of [ __ ] up their plans and then in subsequent books I think like the fremin like hate him and they're you know he survives multiple assassination attempts they launched like a holy war which they get flash forwards of in the dennyville move movie of him and Paul kind of flipping around and stabbing people yeah it results in like 60 billion deaths across the universe um ends with him being blinded and like thrown into the desert to you know spend the rest of his days but yeah it's sort of like the opposite of that so if you kind of look at it and I think Danny villanov obviously knows that these people have waited for centuries for the listener they see you they see the signs there's kind of hints of it in the Villeneuve movie where well I in re-watching it after knowing that there's a couple bits that I noticed yeah he was talking to a friend and I can't remember who it was but he was like you've heard the stories of the prophecy but he kind of like looks at his mom like like check watch this yeah well even at the very end there's uh when everyone's walking away and uh uh Zendaya's character Johnny uh she turns around like your story is just beginning or this is just starting or whatever and they start walking away and it holds on uh Rebecca Ferguson it's Jessica for just a moment where she has this like apprehensive look on her face she kind of knows what's going to happen and you can see her trying to get him off the planet like yeah we've got yeah they're trying to yeah and they're like no come with us or whatever so it's like no no my you know my future is in the desert blah blah yeah she knows what's going to happen so yeah watching it with that knowledge kind of made it more interesting to me than yeah and stuff I wouldn't have even picked up on otherwise there's just like a little scene yet when he's sort of like using the prophecy to sort of take advantage of people or and I think Danny van live is very uh aware of that yeah so I think I hope he kind of goes with that in the second one so it's not just a sort of Straight Ahead like yeah you're a messiah and a God and I think it's yeah it's uh I don't think I've ever seen Timothy chow mei in anything before no neither have I don't think I've seen any movies he's been in but with that knowledge and watching him in this movie it actually made me appreciate his performance more than the first time I saw it right because there is that like slight bit of arrogance yeah but he's also kind of charming you know it's like oh okay they cast that really well Kyle McLaughlin I love him but in the original movie he kind of feels like he doesn't know what's happening it feels like he has like like uh disconnected from the material he feels like very aloof yeah and like kind of a little arrogant and pompous but I think everybody in the in the Lynch version was very like dry and you know I don't know kind of mannered in the way they speak and stuff like that it's a nice counterbalance to just how like Broad and weird everything is in that yeah yeah that kind of like yeah uh evens it out a bit for sure so it's not like two and then you get to like Baron hard Conan flying around bidding in people's faces he's like taking showers and like black goo yeah I want you to squeeze and squeeze and squeeze they all just want to [ __ ] one another like when Steve comes out well he comes out like his little gold bikini thing like he looks like a Flash Gordon or like yeah Cod piece or something and then like Baron har Coons you cut to like Paul Smith like everyone's really sweaty it's like there's gonna be some sweaty incest orgy yeah there's something weird going on there absolutely and then the the Dylan new version um it's just very like oppressive feeling all those scenes with those characters feels more menacing I think bear and hark Conan yeah I mean I understand why they kind of didn't make him as like disgusting as the Lynch version but I kind of like the Lynch version more I know yeah I know um but uh it wouldn't fit the tone but uh Stone scars are does a great job he's intimidating Stellar skateboard Stellar skateboarder Paul F Tompkins joke I don't think either versions explain why he can float around I think he's just so fat and I don't think uh he's got like some device in the Villa version that kind of attaches to his spine he's just such a big fat blob that it's just it's just supposed to help him walk okay yeah I don't think either one really explains that yeah unless I missed the line so you kind of get it he's like fat and it's like it's like the fat people scooter what they call those things the uh uh Rascal Rascals it's the space rascal [Music] comparing the scores to the movie again very different one very eccentric Choice one I guess I'd say save Choice it's a good score to the new movie it's kind of like a typical Han Zimmer yeah kind of percussive I don't remember any themes or anything no that's the thing it's like the Toto theme is very memorable it's very like I don't know I feel like that's something I would play like if I'm working or something yeah listen to the Toto song especially the end credit music maybe not that song it's like Smooth Rock whereas like the Han Zimmer yeah you wouldn't put that on the background no I mean it's effective but it's never particularly memorable it's pretty bombastic yeah especially in IMAX oh my God that was just killing me there were some points where it was I felt it was just too much oh really well it was when I think it was when Jason Momoa was escaping he gets in that ornithopter and he's flying around he's just like you know take your foot off the gas a little bit sometimes yeah and then they go into like that kind of like there is the uh the her Conan's uh in one of the scenes they have like a throat singer and that's like a nice touch that's a pretty blood on everybody's forehead yeah yeah like all that stuff feels like yeah they're getting ready for battle this is creepy that was a good casting Choice with uh was it polka dot man it's polka dot man yeah I loved him that was Brad dourif's character in the first movie it was a good good choice wow that role wasn't really played by Brad darf is played by Brad dorff's eyebrows Brad Dorff is just kind of there too I will say even though some of the compositing isn't great those scenes in the Lynch version where they're wandering through the desert yeah they make that environment look a lot scarier and more kind of treacherous than in the The Villa new version The Villa new version it just looks like a desert but there's like all these Jagged rocks and stuff in the David Lynchburg okay if if anything felt like it was a little too long or maybe slightly tedious in the villainy version it's some of the stuff with them in the desert when it's just Paul and Jessica I think it kind of dips down like energy wise because you know you just had this big battle Yeah and this is the sort of like aftermath well that again goes with the idea of splitting into two movies that kind of throws you off where it's yeah there's a big battle and then it goes on for quite a bit after that it's a weird Paul fights one guy at one point it just kind of ends yeah it's a weird structure yeah I guess because you're trying to adapt one story with kind of like you know a three-act structure and then kind of cutting in half and trying to make a movie of it which usually they have very specific structures so yeah yeah but again once the second movie's out for sure that'll alleviate all that assuming the second one turns out good which I would imagine it will it's only the beginning I don't want to give the impression we've been talking about it's somewhat favorably about the the David Lynch version oh yeah a notorious uh uh flop that I think a lot of people just consider to be just a flat out bad movie I don't know I think it's a victim of of bad editing and rushing through the story studio mandate I think you know if David Lynch got a chance at least to kind of make a better version who knows if it would be a good movie but it would be much better than I think what it is yeah I I was just surprised that you know with all its flaws that it was still as good as it was yeah and that's going from completely fresh eyes I'd never seen it before so it's very watchable and there's there's a lot to like like there's a lot to like even though the story is a mess it was interesting re-watching it after seeing the Villa new version because the villanue version makes more sense like I understood the story more so then going back and watching the Lynch one is like okay I kind of get it now even though the movie itself doesn't do a good job of explaining anything it's certainly does a lot of explaining there's a lot of explaining and it's still more confusing as a movie it's like you know someone's not getting a point you're making so you just like talk louder and more it's like they're not getting it no I'm not arguing that with you I'm not arguing that with you but there is a um there was a three-hour TV cut that Dino De Laurentiis did uh without David Lynch at all being involved that's the one that's credited to Alan Smithy yeah he wanted his name taken off that and but there is a uh fan edit that apparently is really good that kind of took both versions and sort of rejig the edit and stuff and I think it might be online somewhere I haven't checked that out I don't know if I want to yeah what if it's just another 45 minutes of a half-naked sting wandering around with his chest puffed out incest orgies that's the thing is both versions do a great job of making this world just feel scary that's for sure yeah the which one you can say some of it's kind of dated and Goofy but it's still like it's such a like dark creepy word it's like a nightmare yeah it's like which goes along with all of his other movies even all those like kind of it looks like cubicle rooms you know you kind of see above those rooms that bear her Conan's in oh yeah hundreds of them and they feel like kind of like prison cells or something yeah oh God they just do these experiments on people it's gross and then the the villanue version because I've heard people say it's like a I don't know like an adult Star Wars or something yeah and I can kind of see that but it really yeah the the way it sets up the kind of the warring factions and it just does a great job of making it feel believable yeah in this kind of grand scale I feel like kind of Game of Thrones in space might get better because they have the different houses and like you know how they're all kind of fighting for power and you know blah blah blah so did I don't know another way of thinking about it I think but Star Wars is like no I think that's just everybody's go-to yeah it's interesting with the uh because the lint version came out you know at the height of Star Wars and it's such a different movie but they still try to make like toys like little they did yeah action figures so it's like what kid is going to want to play with oh I'm milking a cat one of the toys I don't know if it was one that actually was produced or a prototype for one that they didn't end up making came with that cat no yeah that's not a joke no it's in the the recent Arrow video release oh there's a little feature out about it yeah but needless to say at the toilet line did not go over well because what little kid watches that movie and wants to play with toys from it it was like you know I remember when Blade Runner came out and they're saying people are comparing it to Star Wars I'm like no no I think it's just anything like sci-fi sci-fi with great effects for the time yeah it's just like Star Wars yeah no the David Lynch dude feels like nothing else from that era yeah and you could almost say the same thing about the new one it doesn't feel like any movie from you know it feels like a villain movie he's got his own style yeah that I really dig I I prefer I mean I like a smaller movies like I love enemy but comparing this to like it's it's interesting that they took such a chance to do this after Blade Runner was such a massive flaw yeah it performed you know it was a disappointment but then the first one the first blade run was a huge flop so you know it develops this sort of cult following over the years but that doesn't do much for a studio that needs to make all their money back opening weekend popular entertainment this is a movie for you know I don't know peanut gallery or anything like that but I I prefer Blade Runner 2049 just because I like that world more yeah okay um but this one it's just as fully realized a world it's just a different you know different look it's a different world and you know it's interesting because people were very excited about this new movie coming out they were treating it like you know we haven't had a really good Dune adaptation or even an a dune anything material in so long and I thought that was a weird reaction because like this was released on HBO Max and there's plenty of other Dune content on HBO Max I mean right now you can watch you know the DC series Dune patrol all right there's the the Christopher Nolan movie Dune Kirk that was that one that was uh with the rock it was based on the video game Dune yeah and then of course my favorite Western of all time The Good The Bad Dune and then the uh George Lucas's uh sci-fi fantasy star dune and then the sequel is doom doom [Music]

Channel: RedLetterMedia

Views: 2,095,165

Keywords: redlettermedia, red letter media, red, letter, media, plinkett, half in the bag, mike stoklasa, jay bauman, rich evans

Id: 4ClY9yo7-9o

Length: 50min 59sec (3059 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 29 2021