Dr K talks to a PROUD Trump Supporter with David Pakman

so today we're going to do something fun and  something different something i'm really looking   forward to so you know we've been on the david  pakman show i think about twice now and um you   know really appreciate his dialogue in the way  that he works and the way he thinks and stuff   like that and so you know the last time we were on  on david pakman's show we sort of talked a little   bit about you know sometimes he'll he'll say  that people will kind of disagree with him and   will be pretty vocal and i sort of mentioned to  him that you know it would be really cool to like   sort of talk to someone in an open-ended  non-judgmental manner about you know what they   believe and how they came to believe it because  i find that so much of political discourse right   now is like really just you know plastering the  other side as backward or idiots or whatever and   one of the things that i really appreciate about  you know training to be kind of non-judgmental   through you know be training to become a monk  and sort of accepting people where they're at   and like learning how to listen is all and also  like learning how to be a good listener through   um you know training as a therapist i think that  those skills can actually be applied to like you   know non-therapeutic or non-spiritual places and  one of the goals that we we kind of are focused on   you know here at healthy gamer is just to try to  understand people right and educate people about   different different perspectives and so a lot of  times our focus has been on like mental health but   sometimes we'll talk about stuff like you know  how to efficiently study and things like that   but today we're going to try something a little  bit different and we're going to hop into a call   with david pakman as well as a long time i don't  know if i should call him fan of the show but um   you know there's someone who's who disagrees a lot  with david pakman but i understand calls in a lot   and i think they've got like a good and healthy  dialogue hopefully and that's jimmy from philly   and so we're going to hop in with them and we're  just going to talk to jimmy for uh and david for   a little while and try to sort of understand you  know a little bit about jimmy's experience of the   world and what he believes so i know it's a little  bit different but i'm really looking forward to it   um and let's get started welcome everyone  david do you want to go ahead and kick things   off or let me do that yeah just to kind of  set the the situation here um so basically   i talked to all sorts of people on my show  at some point jimmy started calling in and we   know jimmy is jimmy from philly and we would he  would bring to me different ideas and questions   and i found jimmy to be an interesting  character a sad character in many ways   a concerning character in some ways as well um i  think our rapport is sort of okay although jimmy   does regularly say you know homophobic things  transphobic things racist things etc and i   think there's probably a lot to dig into there  about the the sort of origins or oranges of that   um a couple things i'll mention about you  know our dialogue with with jimmy um jimmy   has talked to me about his um problems with  alcohol and you guys can probably see he's   got some bottles there over his right shoulder and  that's something i've talked to jimmy about before   um jimmy has talked about how he has a daughter  but at least at one point wasn't allowed to see   her because of some physical violence that jimmy  was at least i'll say he was accused of and we'll   maybe leave it to jimmy to tell us more about the  specifics of that um jimmy was also arrested not   long ago because of as i understand it chasing  a car with four black teenagers down the street   while intoxicated and that led to a sort of legal  situation as well for jimmy and that's kind of the   jimmy that i that i know big picture and every  once in a while jimmy will say something that's   sort of open and he seems open to considering  other ideas etc but very quickly he'll go back   into the transphobia the homophobia the racism  um and uh and that that's kind of that's jimmy   as far as my relationship with him which has  been through the internet and through my show quite the introduction so i want to just clarify  a couple things so i noticed um you know david   mentioned like alcohol use and things like that  so just to clarify and make sure we're all on   the same page jimmy i am a psychiatrist but i and  my understanding of this conversation is that you   know i'm not here because david's here too we're  gonna just three people having a conversation i   wanted to just make sure that are you under the  impression that i'm your medical doctor or that   i'm not going to diagnose you with anything yeah  treat you for anything okay so we're just going to   have a conversation and and try to understand  each other better so the goal of what we do   um the reason i stream is just so that we  can try to understand people better and   share that understanding with everyone who's  watching um are you kind of cool with that yes   um just so you understand you know if after the  call if you do sort of decide that you do want   mental health support or treatment or things like  that you're welcome to kind of message us and we   can kind of provide you with resources we do that  for every uh you know guest that that comes on um   it you know but that's kind of at your request  we're not going to push anything on you or   recommend anything or anything like that it's  just sometimes fine okay um so jimmy is it okay   if i uh kind of ask you i mean do you want to  share a little bit like do you want to offer an   introduction or or i've got a couple yeah i mean  yeah so first of all like how did it feel to hear   david's kind of like litany of how he introduced  you well he's gotten a little bit wrong actually   okay can you when i did the call with him last  year um i clearly said that they were four   black 20-somethings not teenagers um this didn't  occur in philadelphia it occurred in the suburb   of philadelphia um let's see what else um i was  arrested for public drunkenness but i beat the   case they had a video of me going after her car  it doesn't prove that i was drunk they the rest   of me because i was off my the video showed them  that i was off the property and they said i was   publicly drunk the video showed that i was  angry not that i was drunk i was drunk but   i i was very i i wasn't that drunk i was they  were ready to let me go at the police station   i said the m were in the back of the police  car so they wouldn't let me go sure so what   i'm kind of hearing is that like you didn't get a  fair rap from david well doc here's what happened   okay so i'm a trump supporter i have signs on my  lawn they continued to get stolen right so i sat   out there and was guarding them and i'm drinking a  little bit while i'm out there four black men bomb   rushed the lawn they take signs real quick and  they ride around the clock torning me three times   [ __ ] whitey [ __ ] trump the second time  they did it around the house i got a knife   third time they got caught at the light i ran  after the car i was a little tipsy i stopped to   stab the top of the tire i should have stabbed the  sidewall but the knife just disintegrated in my   hand and uh they got out of the car laughing then  chased me back to the house and something that we   took a video of me doing this and uh they gave it  to the cops and the cops locked me up for public   talking this but i beat the case because they  never showed up they never they didn't have a case   so yeah so i i mean thanks for sharing that  jimmy i appreciate it but what i'm kind of   curious about is like when you have kind of  your side of the story and like i was frankly   kind of shocked i mean david is it i mean is  it okay if i be critical of you for a second   please i wouldn't i would love it so like here  he is introducing you and like he starts off with   like bottles in the back and like got arrested for  this and like you know it's kind of a weird way yeah i mean how does that feel  to be i mean like because it's   almost like he's sharing like the most  negative or provocative things about you   well david's a propagandist what can  i tell you i mean he's good at it yeah   yeah so how does that how does that make you kind  of feel to be i was laughing the entire time i   noticed that yeah that's what i was kind of asking  right because and so so i don't get offended easy   doc if that's what you're getting at i i really  don't people can say what they want i really don't   care yeah so okay definitely a happy person yeah  so now see what david wants to make hey out of in   this situation is basically that i'm crazy for  going after the car well i had two choices doc   how many men are going to sit there when four  men come on to their lawn take their property   i don't give a [ __ ] what it was took for my  trump signs then they have to to marry me to   drive around the neighborhood three times yelling  racial appetites at me pointing me with the signs   out the window and i'm just supposed to sit there  like a little soy boy i don't think so that's not   gonna happen that's not the type of person i am i  am going to do something about it right or wrong   i'm going to jail i don't give a [ __ ] you do  something like that to me you are you're going   to get held responsible in some kind of way  and you know i think the whole thing's funny   the whole thing's funny you know so jimmy you kind  of said that's not the kind of person i am can you   help me understand what kind of person you are  well apparently david would have sat on the wall   and watched these morons ride around and taunt him  david thought it was crazy for me to go after them   yeah so jimmy i'm gonna just i may do something  a little bit unusual i may sort of ask a question   again so like when i ask you like you said that's  not the kind of person i am and you say well david   would have done this like i'm not interested  in what kind of person david has destroyed   like in other words i had two choices right  i was either to call the police or do nothing   but but david was trying to make me sound  crazy that and i actually took action and   went after these people that just stole  from me and do you [ __ ] i'm saying i'm   not the kind of person that's going to sit  there and watch something like that yeah   yeah you know i i i get that uh so i'm i'm  do you oftentimes so what i'm hearing is   that like you know a lot of people in your  situation kind of may lay down and take it   but you're not going to lay down and take it why  yeah but this was basically a thing david put out   there you know like i was nuts for taking action i  was not crazy not just the type of person i am and   i wouldn't blame a guy for not doing nothing  sure so i mean but yeah yeah and and do you   find that oftentimes um you know people try  to like paint you as crazy by sort of sharing   stories like this or or things like that well i  am a little nuts doc i have no problem with that   what does that mean i do think that most  people wouldn't do i'm very aware of that   that is my personality that's how i am can you  help me understand that a little bit like what   what do you do that other people wouldn't  like help me understand like who are you bro   uh gee i don't know uh i i like to have  fun okay um i see everything is funny um   i make fun of everybody and everyone including  myself okay see david see if i make fun of like a   homosexual or transsexual let's face it  the man in the dress is the funniest thing   since the dawn of time all right i'm sorry i make  fun of these folks but that doesn't mean that i   hate them if these people want to be accepted as  normal then they better be ready to take jokes   you understand yes because if if you're making  them some sacred cow which is what david does   and then that that's that's just they're not  special people okay i have nothing against   them but i think when [ __ ] is funny it's funny  and i'm gonna point it out sure so what i'm kind   of hearing is the way that you you kind of you  know treat them in a sense fairly right because   everyone gets made fun of i don't treat them  anywhere i make fun of them sure yeah big deal   they can't handle that and you're wearing the  dress trying to look if you look like steve i'm   not calling you susie okay i'm just not doing it  i'm not doing it i think in new york a landlord or   an employer is fined well over a hundred thousand  dollars if they don't refer to these people   as a certain pronoun it could be they zur zay  what that's insanity i'm not going to accept   your delusion go ahead and be deluded you have the  freedom to do it but you're not going to force me   to address you as a woman when you're clearly  a man it's it's that simple this is com this   is logic it's science biology yeah and and so i'm  a little bit curious jimmy when when you sort of   you know when there's a group of people that  are defying science and logic and biology like   how does that because you seem to get kind of  passionate there as you were talking about it   how does that kind of affect you it pisses  me off and what pisses you off about it   what pisses me off you're trying to get me to  accept your delusion you have the right to be   delusional but you ain't making me look if you  look like steve i'm not calling you susie that   that sums it up my whole philosophy on the issue  sure i got no problem with gay people i got no   problem with trans people i i think it's funny as  hell i i i think it's abso [ __ ] lutely hilarious   and i mocked them but that doesn't mean i hate  them that doesn't mean if if i if look if i   were the grand pooh bar would i stop it no i think  it's hilarious it's a [ __ ] show i mean you know i just think it's funny and can you  help me understand this may sound like   a weird question okay but can you help me  understand what you think is funny about it a man in a dress that says it all okay my name's  linda and i got a deep voice i mean come on man   this [ __ ] is funny okay okay i hear what you're  saying so i i think part of the problem with you   know dissecting humor is this the moment you  dissect it it kind of falls apart right um so   part of it is the commies are destroying  comedy that's what it really is   okay everybody wants to get you don't have the  right not to be offended you don't people can make   fun of you it doesn't make them hateful people  okay i'm not a hateful person not a racist either   how do you know whether someone is is you know  when someone mocks you how do you know whether   that person is hateful or not hateful you  don't but this is the way the left paints   comedy anymore you can't make fun of the homos  you can't make fun of the [ __ ] you know that i   mean i mean look at youtube they've got a library  of things you can't talk about what why not okay   i hear what you're saying so what i'm also  hearing that you know that they're they're kind of   anti-science in a sense um and that that they're  also they can't become a woman this is impossible   i don't care if they cut their dick off don't  cut that i don't care they cannot become a   woman when they can change dna maybe you got an  argument but these people cannot become women   and it's just impossible so jimmy let me let me  kind of ask you so you were kind of saying when   someone mocks someone else you know you can't tell  whether there's hatred or not hatred right like if   i mock you if i make fun of you you know but look  if you're if you're known as a person to do that   if you're known as a per like i used to do  stand-up comedy people that know me know   you know i mean it's not my fault that you're  a snowflake and you can't handle a joke   yeah i mean that's not if you want to get offended  and go ahead and get offended i'm going to laugh   even harder okay so so now what i'm kind of  hearing you say is that if they know you're   a comedian then it's okay to make you know no it's  always okay to make fun of people why not humor is   a spiritual principle it actually brings people  together but the left is trying to destroy it   okay um so jimmy is it okay if i ask you a little  bit about it seems like you have a lot of really   strong beliefs about what's going on is that  fair to say yeah so is it i'm so curious can   you help me understand like how you came to these  opinions and how you came to believe these things   because i believe my ears and my eyes when i see  a man in the dress i almost fall the [ __ ] down   i'm skipping down the street when i see this [ __  ] like oh my god did you just see what okay i have   a certain amount of sympathy for these people  but the solution isn't to follow their delusion   it's not dress up play barbie i don't give  a [ __ ] but when you're trying it's coming   down the plank where they're gonna i'm  gonna be forced to address these people whatever they [ __ ] want like what i'm i'm  gonna point something out to you so there have   been like three or four questions and i'm  curious you know what you think about that   that i've asked you about you and your answer  seems to be doesn't involve you so i'll ask you   like how did you come to believe these things  and you kind of started out with like saying   i believe i told you i believe my eyes and my ears  yeah this is how my brain works everything's funny   okay everything's funny like i think  in cartoons sometimes i don't know why   so jimmy can you help me understand  a little bit about where you grow   grew up can i ask you some questions about  your past yeah yeah i grew up in philly   okay what was growing up like for you what  was what what was growing up i was very happy   i used to be so happy i used to skip down  the streets and of course the kids in philly   broke my balls until i stopped doing it  you know you know the kids on the corner   i would skip i was literally that happy and i have  a lot of energy too so kids would make fun of me   but you know i mean that's philly for you you know  you can't do a goddamn thing without getting your   balls busted on the corner you know it's like  that's what happens in philly i don't know dr k   i don't want to interrupt at such a key moment but  i do want to just say because i i'm not sure how   familiar your audience maybe is either with me or  with jimmy but this is not staged and i think it's   important that we just mention that none of this  is staged first for your i'm being serious here   this is not an act of any kind we're just having  a real conversation here yeah i i didn't think it   was changed no no no i know you don't think  i know i know you know it wasn't stage but   just for people some people in your audience  think this has to be staged this is not staged   this is not okay sure so so jimmy let me ask  you so apparently i'm stuck in the snowflakes yeah um so jimmy so it sounds like when you  were growing up you used to like skip   and and you said people would bust your balls  for that what does that mean can you help me   understand what that means well i mean i was so  happy that i literally skipped down the street   as a child and the kids would make fun of me it  wasn't that big of a deal i just stopped skipping   down the street i was still happier than the [ __  ] but you know i stopped skipping down the street   that's all yeah and i have kind of a  weird question like so do you think that   i mean how did you feel before you know  when you were skipping down the street   and people would start making fun of you  do you remember how you felt as a kid   i didn't like it but that's that's what happens  when you grow up in philadelphia everybody knows   what you're doing they see you you hang on the  corner you know you got the girls you got the guys   you know sure so break your blows people  break your butt you know i'm hearing that   people would make fun of you and and that  you sort of didn't like it but that's life   pretty much yeah and i'm kind of curious like  you know this is going to sound kind of weird but   do you think as a kid you would have  preferred it if they didn't make fun of you   no because it taught me how to uh come back  with snappy witty responses to uh insults and   [ __ ] i see so it's you gotta be on your guard  in philly you know you're hanging on the corner   you know you got to be able to hold your own  you know sure so i'm hearing that it was kind   of like you kind of grew up right so the school  of hard knocks like it's sort of big streets   i wasn't in some really bad neighborhood  i grew up in roxbury it's almost like the   suburbs but i hung all over philadelphia i  hung in some tough neighborhoods i was in a   boys home when i was a child and uh i would hang  out with the kids in their neighborhoods because   it didn't sound west philly well i've been all  over philadelphia i used to call me the rabbit   what does that mean you were in a boy's  home yeah my mom put me in a it's called   saint francis vocational school and that  you didn't have to be adjudicated but   i was doing a lot of stupid [  __ ] i had gotten into drugs   i had committed some crimes my mother didn't know  what to do with me she put me in this boy's home   she thought she was helping me believe me i  had a [ __ ] ball there i didn't want to leave   but you know you were allowed out in the community  you weren't you know i had friends i had you know   we went went to concerts like 50 of us like i  went to school in the area i mean i pretty much   ah doc i have fun i i literally have fun  everywhere i go like i have fun in jail so   you know i mean like i always my number one goal  is to have fun okay so can i ask you uh jimmy   so how old were you when you got put into the  vocational school 13. and do you remember how you   felt when your mom kind of put you in there well  i i i felt abandoned was very angry with my mother   um i remember her crying kissing me and my dad  going something like fly right or some [ __ ] you   know and and but uh that wore off very quickly  but like the con artist i was at that age i kept   trying to let my mother think kind  of let her letting her feel guilty   but within days like i was having a very  good time there these were all kids my age   like they put you on different divisions and  uh there were some really cool characters you   know what i mean like i liked a lot of these guys  they had a pool table they had a ping pong table   you know i mean i had fun there i you know i did  i got sent to another place called saint gabes   that was a [ __ ] had the christian brothers ran  that you had to stay in line for a punishment   stand in line means you stand and face the wall  for hours and of course i was always online   so so what what why did you get sent to  saint gabes um the court sent me there i um   and with the insistence of my mother my  mother thought that these places would help me   she didn't know what to do with me what was  wrong what did you need help for well i was doing   drugs i was committing crimes she thought  i was going to die early so she told me   she used to come to court and the judges were  going to let me go and she would i want him   placed in and they would listen to her and i  would get real pissed off for her now this was   as a child as an older man now i understand what  my mother was doing you understand i agree with   her you know she just she just placed faith in  agencies that i don't know probably made me worse   but you know as a child i [ __ ] hated her  so i'm i'm kind of what you're saying on the   one hand makes a lot of sense so can i just  kind of repeat back what i've heard so far   so you kind of grew up in philly right like not  like super bad situations sort of suburbs but you   kind of hung out with some kids went to some parts  of town where you got kind of got made fun of   it sounds like you were sort of like a  happy-go-lucky kid and yeah i've been described   as exactly that yeah and and and you know the kids  on the street like they you know they kind of got   you to stop being so carefree pretty quickly no i  just stopped skipping and started being a comedian   i just started being a comedian you know they  were calling me gay and this and that you know   i mean it's just it just teaches you to toughen  up that's all i mean you know you're living in   philly you're on the corner you can't be a [  __ ] sure you can't be skipping down the street   let's put it that way and then somehow you kind of  started getting into trouble with like drugs and   and some criminal activity and stuff yeah and  then your mom kind of shipped you off to one place   and then she kind of shipped you off  like and it sounded like you kind of   did what you were supposed to do right so and  then well see here's the first thing they did   they took me to the valley forge military academy  right they were gonna put me in there right   and there was no [ __ ] way i was going to be a  10 soldier right so this the the guy that runs a   joint he said i'm going to talk to him privately  and he pulls me in a room and he says listen   if you don't want to come here we're not going  to make you come here he's like i don't care   what your parents say he said do you want to  come here i said absolutely not he said okay   he had a little consultation with my mom and  dad we walked away how did you feel about that   great what what yeah i mean so i'm gonna ask  you kind of a weird question do you have a   sense of why you felt great there because  i didn't want to be a little cadet you mean march around wake up at five o'clock [  __ ] that i was 13 what the [ __ ] i see   and then how did it feel when when you know the  judge was ready to let you come home and your   mom was like uh oh we gotta st gabes when i was  a child that really pissed me the [ __ ] off what   do you think about that i'm watching i'm watching  because she wouldn't take me back in other words i   got angry with her and i would be in the cell with  these kids from kensington where kenston's like   a real bad sex in philadelphia it's you know it's  where the men are men and so are the women i mean   it's it's crazy that it's gotten even crazier but  these kids would do all kind of [ __ ] like way   worse [ __ ] than me and their mothers and fathers  would pick them up mine wouldn't you know and it i   mean as as young as that that that was my thinking  i i couldn't stand her i [ __ ] hated her and my   father behind her back would say you know if it  was up to me this wouldn't happen you know so he   pissed me off too because i thought he was a [ __  ] snowflake you know when i got older i realized   my mother was trying to help me that's all i  was an [ __ ] i was a kid i mean i was immature can i think for a second jimmy  what's that can i think for a second   you don't need my permission to think so you know jimmy what i'm  kind of hearing is that you   have every reason to be a snowflake but  you'll be damned if you're a snowflake you get more respect if you're not a snowflake see  but the way the left paints people now soyboy is   the way to go the real me yeah yeah so i i think  that's exactly what i'm saying so i'm what i'm   saying is that like you know the story that you're  sharing makes you if you look at like if the check   boxes of being a snowflake like getting abandoned  by your mom getting sent to a military academy   getting sent to a vocational school getting sent  to a nut like you're be you know doing what you're   graduating from there or whatever and then you  know your mom is like like the judge is about   to send you home your mom's like i can't handle it  getting sent back to another place having your dad   huh i hated her for that yeah and so  like if we think about like you know   when you use the word snowflake what i sort of  think of is like a victim complex right is that   fair yeah and so when i'm thinking it like when i  hear this story bro like it sounds like you know   if any wasn't one is entitled to call themselves  a victim it's you but you're not gonna do that   well what no i don't i'm not a victim  of of of anything i'm i'm i'm just   a person that's shaped by their experiences i you  know i don't see myself as any kind of victim no   i i get i get that you don't see yourself  as like that's sort of what i'm saying but   if you like if you think about it right  so if you had like you know let's say a   liberal snowflake who had your background do you  think they would think of themselves as a victim   i i i don't know interesting okay i couldn't  you know i can only speak for myself i mean   you know i don't know is it i mean i was a i was  a liberal till my brother put me hip to what the   corporate media does it all started with trayvon  martin like what a bunch of [ __ ] that was   and then michael brown what a bunch of [ __ ]  that was and you got to hear about racism like   like nothing has went forward between the races  like like it it's it's systemic racism which   means everything's racist right sick and tired of  hearing this [ __ ] and my brother proved to me   i mean nbc doctored the 9-1-1 call that zimmerman  made that's clear they admitted it they fired two   underlings but guess what this is how the news  works and david knows this once you get someone   to make an emotional judgment a nuclear bomb  of truth isn't going to make that person change   their opinion very few people will well because  they don't want to admit they were duped and   this is how the news works and this is how they  brainwash people you know it's just it's sickening that's kind of interesting so let me  just make sure i heard you correctly   so once someone makes an emotional judgment no  amount of truth is going to change their mind   for the most part the media that's what the media  does sure so heard some hyperbolic [ __ ] report   an absolute lie and then the truth comes  out a few days later and people already   made a judgment on it for the most part human  beings are not going to go back on the initial   emotion emotional judgment that they made that's  just you being human yeah so people radioplasia   do you think people who make emotional judgments  are aware that they make emotional judgments sure why wouldn't they be interesting you see  somebody emotionally you know they they know that interesting so so you because i would actually  say like the opposite like i would say that you   know once what what emotions tend to do is cloud  your judgment and most people who make emotional   decisions believe they're behaving rationally  and that the more emotional you become the more   rational you think you are what do you think  about that maybe not in all circumstances i mean   i don't know how to you know i don't know okay it's just the way i am it's  sure i don't like being lied to i don't like   being gaslighted and they're doing it constantly  the media politicians you're being lied to all the   time everything's a grift everything is a grift  everything jimmy a couple things so so the second   thing is uh you know so i'm sort of hearing like  do you think it's possible for you to be a victim that's wow that's i guess anybody can be a victim yeah why not what  what would that mean to you if you were a victim uh i wouldn't know because i don't behave like a  victim if somebody wrongs me i get back at them   you know i mean i i find a way to get back to  them and i generally make it funny and spectacular   okay and this is what i do and what  what would it what would it feel   like to not get back at them horrible  in what way help me understand that it's just like an unpaid debt you know the  best way i could describe it like i got   to get back at you i mean i'm not saying be  violent but justice you're disrespecting me   i gotta top it yeah so what do you think  about stuff like forgiveness and compassion   uh well you know i was in a.a for a while and  and they taught me about forgiveness right   but then i started um investigating different  religions and i heard this rabbi on the tv say   he said we believe in forgiveness too  but not like the christians and he said   we believe you got to atone for something before  we forgive you that i agree with the christians   want you to just forgive a [ __ ] for just to  forgive them no forgiveness should not come easy   now if you did somebody wrong and you're  looking to make amends you gotta atone for that   [ __ ] before i forgive you i think that's more  reasonable now i'm an atheist but you know i do   some of the religions basically it's a philosophy  right religion some of them come up with some   pretty good [ __ ] i mean i see no problem with  treat others as you should treat yourself you know   what i mean i i think that's a good thing you  know i just don't believe there's a god i mean   it's just ridiculous but yeah they do come up with  some good [ __ ] for human relations so you know   and i'm gonna ask you kind of personal question  you're okay totally fine to not answer it if you   don't want to i'll answer anything have  you oh you haven't heard my question yet   but um have you forgiven your mom oh yeah yeah  help me understand how you did that well i just   grew up and realized that look my mother  was manic depressive she had her own issues   she was in psychiatric hospital twice six  months right the woman was a little [ __ ] up   you know and and she wanted to help me  there's no doubt about it i remember   my aunt from scotland said she my aunt i  said something derogatory about my mother   and she sat me down she said jimmy do you realize  you're the golden boy i said what do you mean she   said well there's a problem with your eyes she  wished you right off to the doctor every time   you were sick she brought you the heart she  said that woman wasn't trying to hurt you she   had her own problems and she went with what she  thought would help you and apparently it didn't   yeah yeah i i think i wish they would have  put a [ __ ] guitar in my hand or something   i mean i was a very happy-go-lucky energetic  child but you know they tried to make me into   being hyperactive they got me taking ritalin they  had me in the crazy kids school you know all this   [ __ ] stupid [ __ ] you know they should  have just gave me something to keep me busy   like if computers were around then you know i  think i would have got into that if streaming   was around then i think you would have become  a stranger in the early 70s i don't think so   yeah so jimmy that's so interesting so i'm i'm  kind of hearing so what i'm hearing is that your   mom really doesn't have anything to atone for  no she was look she did her best she told me   she said jimmy there's no book on how to raise  children i make mistakes you know so you know my   mother loved me she was a little nuts i mean she's  smack depressing i mean you know i mean you know   but i i've no the rest of my family don't forgive  her they're they're kind of and they're kind of um surprised that i take the tact that  i take my sister said to me one time   she put you in a cage like my sister was  threatening to put her in a home right   my mother was definitely afraid of this and i got  real pissed off my sister i said look she calls me   crying one more time i'm gonna [ __ ] you up you  know what i mean like i'm tired of this [ __ ] she   wanted to die in her own home the woman had the  right to do that there was nothing wrong with her   she fell one time big [ __ ] deal my sister was  like literally terrifying her and i stuck up for   her my sister was shocked she said well she put  you in the cage i'm like she put me in the cage   for a [ __ ] reason she's trying to [ __ ] help me  you ain't trying to help this woman i mean i don't   like that [ __ ] and she stopped hmm you know [ __  ] that [ __ ] you ain't gonna [ __ ] with my mom   mother wasn't perfect she tried to do the best  she could with me guess what you know what she   told me until you're 18 i'm gonna keep  your little ass alive and you're gonna go   where the [ __ ] i want you to go and when  you're 18 if you die it's on you hey it worked   i'm 58 right right so mom wasn't that crazy you  understand yeah so what i'm hearing from you um   jimmy is that despite you know being very upset  with your mom when you were growing up what i'm   really hearing is that you kind of really respect  her you understand her you sort of understand that   she kind of did the best that she could given  the circumstances she had her own struggles and   you kind of don't blame her for that sure that  that's what a mature person does it does i mean   that's that's the only way to look at it what am  i going to still be angry at this woman she's dead   the woman's dead some people  continue to say angry right yeah yeah there's no point in it  there's no no percentage of it so   um jimmy i'm kind of curious you said  you kind of got into drugs and and kind   of criminal activity and stuff as a kid like  what's your understanding of how that happened   well i mean i started committing crimes to get  money for drugs okay but and i don't want to   blame it on drugs i mean i did it i owned it  but had it not been for drugs i wouldn't have   committed to crimes so i certainly committed to  crimes how do you understand you know drug like is   like so like some people think of uh you know  substance use is an addiction is a disease is an   illness uh what do you think about it the whole  disease thing was a bunch of [ __ ] with the   insurance companies and i'm very well reversed on  all that [ __ ] on a.a the history of it and all   um that's just a word that's all it is it's [  __ ] whether or not it's a disease who cares   you know like i went to a free a helped me  tremendously i went through the 12 steps   in two weeks you know people said oh that's  crazy well if you study the history of aaa   he did it in days and that's a fact but it did  shake like like i had a therapist explain me   therapy's supposed to kind of shake you up and  then you settled down differently right that   was the best description i've ever heard that's  something that's really exciting it got me to   it got me to take a look at things especially  my mother and i remember when i went to make   amends to my mother i went to her grave  and i cried like a baby and i never   looked ill of my mother ever again and i was 38  years old so i was hating on my mother when i   was 38 years old and i was a damn fool but you  know i did a fourth step i did a fifth step i'm   running around making amends you know what i  mean got my car and just started making amends   the man just to fix or repair something to  the best of your ability and that's what i did   because of these actions see a lot of these  people they're just told to go to meetings   and listen to other people's sob stories i'm  sorry it doesn't work it doesn't work you can't   think your way out of bad thinking you have  to act your way into better thinking and the   actions that i took to the 12 steps helped me even  today to be more honest to not be deceitful to   not that not that i wasn't an honest person but  you know but you know to get a real [ __ ] view   of what's really going on rather than that dumb [  __ ] that was running around in my head hating on   my mother hating the world thinking the world of  me a living it doesn't life ain't fair it's not   it's how you react to it and it really helped  me i mean and then i started to become a   sponsor which was the best thing ever because  when you're helping somebody else you ain't   thinking about yourself right that was my whole  problem i thought about my [ __ ] self too much   i was self-centered selfish and helping  other people really i really enjoy doing that um jimmy i'm just going to kind of give david a  chance to kind of uh chime in for a second and you   know just because i noticed he's been listening  thoughtfully and maybe taking notes dave did you   want to add anything or ask any questions or kind  of share any thoughts no i mean i think you know   one of the interesting things from a complete  lay person's perspective is that it's i didn't   know the background of jimmy until today but it's  exactly what i imagined it might be that gets him   to where he is today at 58 in the sense of i do  see jimmy as a victim myself and it's not about   whether he has to quote behave like one but i i  i you know in hearing about the situation that he   grew up in it makes a lot of sense to me that  he kind of behaves in the boisterous way and   finds this need to always uh have this opposite  reaction to what he's experiencing and he doesn't   feel right unless he does that that it's like  an unpaid debt i mean it's other viewers of mine   have told me similar stories about how they got to  where they are in their 30s 40s 50s and so it just   it it makes a lot of sense everything i'm hearing  is putting a lot of pieces into into place so i know you've got you want to respond to that i  said okay if i follow up with david a little bit   yeah and okay so david when you said this is you  know the picture that we're kind of uncovering is   exactly in a sense what you're not surprised to  hear help me understand like what do you mean   by that why aren't you surprised to hear this  how do these dots how do the dots of what we've   learned in the past about jimmy connect with your  understanding of him today well i mean i think it   was very interesting that i've experienced jimmy's  um homophobic and transphobic language right i'll   give him the benefit of the doubt he says he  he's just making fun but he doesn't hate people   that's fine so i'll use the term i won't say  transphobia and homophobia his transphobic and   homophobic language and for ex i've experienced  it with jimmy as an adult and he revealed today   that he was the recipient of that when he was  skipping along and being called gay that makes   that that that makes a lot of  sense to me in the sense that   he's weaponizing the way he felt when that was  used against him against other people that maybe   he wants to go after or get back at like that's  a that's one example of why it's fitting together um what do you think about that jimmy i don't know i mean david i certainly am no  victim you know good and bad things happen to   people all the time and and in fact like what is  good and bad what's bad what the chinese see um   what is that um um conflict as um like opportunity  you know i mean if something bad happens you can   go one or two routes right you can become a victim  get angry get depressed stay that way for years   or you can turn that [ __ ] around make  lemons out of lemonade lemons right   and how do you how do you think so if someone is  kind of a victim and someone is sad and depressed   how do you think you kind of speaking about what  you were sort of mentioning about aaa and becoming   a sponsor and helping other people how do you help  someone like that turn their lemons into lemonade   well the whole thing with that is it's i guess  it's a form of selfishness i mean if you keep   thinking about you and your [ __ ] up situation  you're not thinking about a solution you're   stuck in the problem so you got to get out of  yourself somehow and but me yeah so you've been   a sponsor right so you've helped people who are in  a dark space and how did you help him out of that   just helped them with the uh the big book  of alcoholics anonymous i helped them   take them through the 12 steps and and they got  to define it the way they did and you know like   they got to experience it the way  they did the more they practiced it   more they experienced and they got to  articulate it any way they wanted to i   didn't tell them to say i didn't tell most of  these guys would tell you when i got sponsors   right and believe me these are these were  all well-meaning people but they would say   call me every day right so i called them they  could they'd last about 10 minutes because i was   i was pissed off i was disgusted one thing that  comforted me drugs or alcohol wasn't available   anymore and they'd lasted about 10 minutes right  and they would say go tell that at a meeting   you'll feel better i never did i never felt better  talking about my problems all the [ __ ] time   and believe me i talked about my problems i never  no i'm asking i'm asking you guys other people   what's that so i'm hearing that you seem to  be talking about when someone else is your   sponsor it sounded like you were a sponsor yeah  yeah yeah yeah how did you help other people   oh what i did was i helped help them to open their  own eyes how did you describe me i was helped   through the 12 steps do a fourth and fifth step  with them shared the way i made amends discuss   that with them and then they had to go out  and do the work like i was just like guide   okay i was no special person or anything i you  know i it's not like i had superhuman powers   sure but i had a problem that i got over and  you're the same way ain't you and you have a   problem with gaming and you got over it now you  help gamers well then you understand this uh   absolutely oh sure i mean i understand my  experience of it so my experience of it and i   was kind of curious because you know i'm sure it's  similar i i think it is too so let me let me kind   of share with you kind of my experience and you  let me know so you know i found that when i was   playing video games like i was really struggling  and and you know some people um would kind of you   know not really understand that i was struggling  they would sort of blame me they thought it was   weakness things like that some people made fun of  me um you know i got bullied a lot when i was kind   of growing up for playing video games and things  like that and the people that helped me sort of   i think did sort of what you did which is that you  know they didn't make fun of me or or things like   that they sort of helped me see things in a new  light they helped me sort of recognize that that   you know while i may be a victim in some ways  that if i'm a victim if it's really my fault   like you know they also empowered me in some ways  by sort of helping me understand that like there   is some element of this that i control well you  know doc you know sometimes bullies can be good   you know they can help you to face reality a  whole lot quicker yeah so um if it's okay with   you jimmy what i'm gonna actually do is like  share some thoughts and and i'm i'm kind of   curious what about this will kind of land well  with you and and what won't um you know and   and just i'm super curious because i think getting  to talk to you by the way first of all bro this   has been an absolute privilege i i really  appreciate it thank you i'm having fun great um do you have a doctor by the way you have  a doctor that you see huh got a shrink okay   okay cause i'm just you know noticing that  you're you're smoking cigarettes and vaping and   and stuff like that so i just want to make sure  that you know your health is okay and that you   talk to a medical professional about all that  stuff i'm i'm fine i'm trying to vape more   okay okay um but it sounds like you you were  you joking when you said you have a shrink or   no i said i don't have a shrink oh you don't  have it you have you have a fit physical health   doctor yes okay yes yes and they're aware that  you're smoking and vaping and stuff like that   okay and promote the vaping actually okay okay um  so a hard reduction now yeah yeah it's good so the   first thing that i kind of want to point out is is  uh you know so like i think jimmy what i'm really   hearing from you is like you know you grew up and  you learned a couple of really important lessons   so you were kind of like young and carefree  and and stuff like that right and then like   you kind of learned that when people behave  in a manner that is maybe a little bit unusual   is maybe a little bit funny that like the way that  you respond to that like the way that you were   treated because that's how we learn right like we  treat other people the way that we were treated   right so that's how human beings learn  interaction so you know i grew up in texas   where a firm handshake is a great way to greet  someone and so that's sort of what i thought was   normal and what i'm sort of hearing from you  is that you know when when someone's a little   bit different the way that you treat them is you  just kind of make fun of them right because that's   just that's just what we do like that's the way  that that's what happened to you that's the way   you kind of respond that's sort of the system of  things not not not always i don't always make fun   of them i generally what can i say my personal  life everyone knows me no one takes some of   the things i say seriously but when there's a  time to be serious they know it you know i mean   can i ask you to come up and respectfully you  know can i ask you a little bit about your   personal life for the band so like who's in your  life right now who are the you know what are the   relationships that matter to you well i live i  live in a very nice rooming house in a very nice   area i run the place um i'm i'm the kitchen nazi  i can find you fifty dollars if you don't clean   up now i've yet to do it but this landlord here  she likes renting all these kids and you know   [ __ ] vegetarians you know they're going to save  the world of animals but they won't clean up the   kitchen it's amazing you know i point to the floor  so so you're having uh artichokes onions and looks   like there's a tomato there too yeah these kids  it took me two years to whip this place into shape   now we got a professional cleaner yeah so yeah so  it sounds like like you're you're kind of like uh   it sounds like there are kids like in the sense  of young kids young folks here and so it sounds   like you're kind of you're kind of imposing  some discipline in order it's this is the uh   this is the international house of pancakes  we got west africans we got koreans we got   jamaicans we got black people we got i mean we  got we got everybody here so so i'm hearing that   you know that some of the relationships  in your life are kind of the people that   are in the rooming house what about like um  you know significant others partners family   no i don't i don't have a significant other my my  i haven't had a steady girlfriend since my ex and   i threw the baby on the floor so you know she  betrayed me and uh you know i really don't give   a [ __ ] about a relationship okay when you say  you don't give a [ __ ] do you ever feel lonely   curiously enough now that is kind of curious  right how do you understand i think i would   no listen i walk down the street i have fun  i talk to everybody i pet every dog i see i   i don't know what to do i have fun i have i'm a  relatively happy person mm-hmm yeah i see that but   how do you how do you think that happened  because you know i'm thinking 58 year old   you know well i'll say this for you lsd has  helped me tremendously how so this made me happier   interesting okay and and so when was  the last time you were in a relationship   20 years ago okay let me ask you kind of  weird question you don't have to answer   if you don't feel comfortable but have  you ever wondered if you might be gay no and i know it sounds kind of weird but why not uh because i don't think a  man's hairy ass is appealing   that's basically as right of  an answer as you can give okay and so it does sound like you're sexual i got no  problem i got no problem with homosexuals i don't   yeah in fact i've had a few homosexual friends  that were some funny [ __ ] yeah so i'm just   hearing that you're sexually attracted to women  and you're pretty sure about that yeah yeah okay   was it okay that i asked you those questions yeah  you know i hit the sucky [ __ ] every now and then   you know what i hit the sucky [ __ ] every now  and then i massage place and he's a massage place   okay uh anyway so if you must know what i  do for sex because that would be the next   logical question and i was just yeah i mean  i i suppose it would be the next logical   question jimmy i gotta say man you are you  are a blast to talk to bro that's cool yeah yeah so i i just wanna you know so here here's  the thing if it's okay with you i'm gonna sort of   share some thoughts and a couple of observations  you know i i met you now what like about an hour   ago right and and so you got to take all this  with a healthy grain of salt you you know   um but so i'm going to kind of just start out with  like it it seems like you kind of grew up and you   were taught a particular you know here's the rules  of the game of life right if you're a little bit   different you get made fun of you know and that  like making fun of people is is sort of what   what happens and there's no like there's no victim  complex here you know you kind of you it's like   it's like tit for tat like if someone makes fun  of you you make fun of them and it's like that's   just the way of the world no i gotta top them and  you gotta top em why is that i don't know it makes   me feel better okay yeah so i'll share a couple  of thoughts with you about that in a second but   so i and and then i think that you know honestly  like what what you're so i'm a psychiatrist and i   see a lot of people you know who have ptsd and  gone through traumatic experiences and stuff   like that and i'm i'm actually i know this may  sound kind of weird but i do think that there's   um you know people some people really  go too far on the victimhood complex   and and as a psychiatrist sometimes what i find  is that you know if you play if you kind of think   of yourself as 100 of a victim that also means  that you have no control or agency over life   and that you can be a victim and at the same time  there are parts of your life that you can control   you know so i think that there were some well let  me say this to you the biggest thing that i felt   like a victim when my ex used the police in the  courts to lie and say i threw the baby on the   floor they were all against me the accusations  what's meant what what was what what mattered   not the fact whether or not it happened they did  no investigation they didn't ask if the child   was taken to the hospital they just charged me  made me spend thousands of dollars for a lawyer   to this day that pisses me off  that's the way the system is   so i had detectives tell me you're guilty till  you're proven innocent if it's with a girlfriend   or a wife if they say you did something boom  you're locked up no investigation yeah i don't   believe that's extremely unfair it's very unfair  how did it feel to be a victim in that situation not good i went down there and screamed at the  psychiatrist and the security guards came in   and he put his hand up and he talked to me and  uh here's what he my lawyer got the notes from   the psychiatrist so the psychiatrist said that i  was very affable right but that i needed some my   mental health support right yeah no [ __ ] my ex  just said i threw the [ __ ] baby on the floor   and i didn't you know what i mean but then he  does the report on her and he says the distance   that miss beef claimed that he threw the child on  the floor became lower and lower as the interview   went on in other words he called her a liar  because she is a [ __ ] liar she got away with it   she got away with it because she said she said  that's ridiculous it pisses me off to this day   and i don't feel like a victim anymore but i'm  still pissed off it i'm still gonna talk about it   you know [ __ ] ridiculous now the kids in  harvard so and guess what that kid read books   because she saw me reading books i always read  her my prior series in their entire [ __ ] life   okay you know are you kid calls me when it's 10.  listen to this she calls me when she's 10 years   old she says daddy mommy told me to get in the  tub but i was already in the tub i'm like what   she said mommy told me to get in the  tub but she was already in the tub   she said uh is mommy drinking she said yeah  i should put her on the phone i said she's at   the age of reason now if you want her to hate you  like i [ __ ] hate you keep [ __ ] drinking and to   her credit three weeks and three weeks later she  went no rehab i believe she's still sober i'm i'm   not sure but she's been sober a number of years so  are you assassination the kid won't talk to me the   mother poisoned her you know the mother got both  her titties chopped off right i found on facebook   and i sent her a message it couldn't happen  to a nicer person i'm skipping down the street   i'm gonna have a party well apparently saying  mean things is worse than doing mean things   yeah yeah well i said was terrible uh but her  saying i threw the baby on the floor costing   me thousands of dollars forever ordering the  relationship i would have with my daughter it's a   lot worse so you deserve that you know what i mean  i don't give a [ __ ] they can cut her head off   i mean i don't care yeah you sound very very angry  well what the [ __ ] what would you threw the baby   on the floor what the [ __ ] it never happened  even my kid when she was five she's like dad   wouldn't i have gotten hurt yeah you think  these detectives would ask those questions   no but they're forced to charge you that's  the way the law works if it's a girlfriend or   a spouse if they make some allegation like that  you're just sent off the court no investigation   none so how would you like to  be treated not without evidence how would you like to be treated in that situation like to be treated fairly like there was some  kind of investigation to go on before i'm charged   so it's fun i'm gonna put myself in in the shoes  of someone else let's say a cop or or you know   your ex-girlfriend or whatever and i'm gonna  say for a second that you were treated fairly   like what if they thought they were treating you  fairly even the cops admit it's unfair i've talked   to scores of detectives they say look in that  instance you're guilty to approve an innocent   it's [ __ ] up it's [ __ ] up no investigation  like look if somebody accused me of murder they do   a [ __ ] investigation right if somebody accused  me of burglary they do a [ __ ] investigation   if somebody accused me of anything they do  with investigation but when a woman says   a man did something to a kid there's no [ __ ]  investigation they just charge you that's wrong   shit's wrong cost me thousands of dollars  to disprove a lot [ __ ] yeah that's wrong   believe women [ __ ] that not  without evidence [ __ ] that you're supposed to get mad about [ __ ] like  that yeah i completely agree i think the worst   thing a woman can a man can do is rape a woman  and i think the worst thing a woman can do   is lie and say that you abused your own child  that's [ __ ] up a kid made it to harvard   looks like i did something [ __ ] right yeah  it doesn't sound like you got a whole lot of   credit for it what's that doesn't sound like  you got a whole lot of credit for it well yeah   i shouldn't get credit look the kid was smart kid  like to read you know what i mean and they're all   my whole family's like thinking carol did  something that kid went to harvard despite   that dumb [ __ ] he drank a fifth of jd a  day for 10 years that kid was born smart   and she liked to read and she would ask me daddy  what's your book he said and i would stop because   my father read all the time but he would get  pissed off he stopped him so i would stop put   the book down well julia here's what happened so  far i'll let you know when it ends jimmy i'm going   to tell him i'm gonna kind of interrupt you for a  second is that okay how does it feel to share this good what feels good about it i don't know i like  talking about um but i put it uh about my daughter   because see i can tell the [ __ ] truth my ex has  never told the truth and you know apparently uh   you know she's gotten away with a lot of this  yeah not a very bright girl but you know so i'm gonna try to do this one more time so  if it's okay with you i'm going to share   some thoughts about you know what i'm seeing so it  kind of starts off i'm sort of noticing that when   you grew up and you know you behaved somewhat  differently and when people didn't understand   what you were how you were the way you were like  you know you're a kid who skips and the kids on   the corner who like don't understand what that's  about so they make fun of you right and then you   sort of learned how to like how to survive in that  situation you also learned that like hey you know   this is where humor comes in like you know you  kind of fight fire with fire and like i'm sure   that early on before you learned how to how to  defend yourself using humor it probably hurt when   they make fun of you but you sort of learned that  like hey if you get hurt laying down and playing   the victim there's no point to that you got to  kind of you you know you got to fight back and the   way that you fight back is you put people in their  place you teach them a lesson you kind of make fun   of it you laugh with them you laugh at them you  kind of like you know that's the way the world   works and then i'm sort of hearing that you know  that that you had a couple of interesting things   happen to you you kind of got into drugs and stuff  like that you got into crime because of the drugs   i think you've come to acknowledge that your mom  wasn't perfect in a lot of ways but she sort of   in her own flawed way did the best that she  could and you've come to even defend her and and   kind of be a champion for her when other people  were trying to like you know kind of abuse her   or not kind of treat her properly like you weren't  gonna let her be a victim and you would stand up   for someone else who kind of couldn't stand up for  themselves um and that's actually despite you know   getting sent off to like become a tin soldier  and by the way i think part of the reason that   that you really you know part of the reason  that you were telling that story i think i   heard some positivity there and i think part of  the positivity with that story is that someone   actually like paid attention to what you wanted  and what you cared about and the guy was like   straight with you and said hey if you want to  be here i got your back and if you don't want   to be here eternally grateful to that commander or  whatever the hell he was it's weird right because   we go there yeah and he had your back right so  like you know when i was in saint gabes we played   valley forge military academy in football  and we beat the [ __ ] out of them   yeah so what i'm sort of hearing is that you know  some some people like your mom it sort of felt   like she didn't have your back right when she's in  the court judge is like time to go home and mom's   like uh-uh whereas like it's interesting because  there are like some people here who who sort of   have your back right and he's like a stranger but  it's it was really interesting to kind of hear   your and see your emotional expressions and stuff  as you were kind of telling that story you kind of   got sent to saint francis you actually you sort of  liked it but you sort of made your mom pay for it   right you weren't going to let her off the phone  for feeling that she abandoned your kids yeah   and then you went to st gabe's which you really  didn't like but it i mean it sounds like in a lot   of ways you were sort of a dealt and unlucky hand  in life but i'm also sort of hearing that you're   not going to play the victim because like that's  not who you are no and so this is just that's you   know [ __ ] happens to all kind of people all kind  of negative things happen to people yeah of course   of course and and so i think that like you said  you know the one place where you maybe get to play   the victim card or you feel like you were really  treated um you know unfairly was probably the   situation with this whole domestic violence kind  of thing and stuff like that but i'm also kind   of hearing that that you know this aaa experience  has been really interesting for you because what   i'm sort of hearing is that you know acknowledging  that people have their own experience of alcohol   helping people understand their experience of  alcohol um sorry it's just a bit distracting   and and sort of help other people sort of like  listening to you and sort of being like kind of   compassionate right but also they're not saying  like oh it's like it's not your fault alcohol is   a disease like they're not sort of using that kind  of victim language but what they're sort of doing   is recognizing that hey you may need a little bit  of support and i think affable and may need some   mental health support i think is a great great  way to describe you by the way to be fair the   whole disease thing let me just stop to be fair in  the big book and bill wilson wrote it it did not   declare the disease that he called it an illness  a melody used other terms the whole disease thing   is a [ __ ] joke it really really is i think  it's i think it's ridiculous and you know like   the problem from for me for many years is i would  go to aaa they would tell you to go to a meeting   if you got a problem put it down in the meeting  like it's group therapy i'm not about you but   constantly talking about my problems doesn't  makes you feel worse you should feel worse   so i had to like take some actions i knew i had to  do something i didn't know what the [ __ ] to do   yeah but this man helped me and i was very  impressed with the fact that he [ __ ] spent his   personal time with me and he said now you go do it  yeah no i'm with you no i did i was afraid but i   did it so so i and i i'm i'm with you i mean i i  think we'll i'll kind of address that in a second   too but and so what i'm kind of hearing now is  that you know you're you kind of got your opinions   and you're going to stick to them and if if people  want to be snowflakes they can go screw themselves   you're going to say what you're going  to want to say and so this is where   you know i i'd actually encourage you to rethink  that a little bit and here's the reason why okay   so like what i'm hearing is as many situations  in your life where you were not people didn't   listen to you in other situations where  they kind of did like so we can talk about   you know that the the the general or whatever at  the tin soldier place we can think a little bit   about your aaa sponsor we can even think about the  psychiatrist who sort of said you know sort of had   your back and sort of looked at the situation well  let me finish you know what doc i even look at   it like even the bowie's helped me in some sense  i'm with you i'm with you i i'll get there right   so like th those those moments uh you know where  people really like you know cause i'm not hearing   that your aaa sponsor made fun of you and i'm not  hearing that when you're in a sponsor he actually   did but he was a funny guy he okay he just died  no i was real he died of hep c he got treated   i had had c2 i got treated and cured but he had it  for like 30 years and it [ __ ] with his liver so   bad that even though he was cured it killed him  which was a real shame it sounds like a shame   yeah and and so i'm also hearing loud and clear  that you know your experiences have made you the   person that you are which is sort of a survivor  you know if i had to use one word to describe you   know you've been through a lot the number one will  of a human being is to survive is it not yeah and   what i'm also hearing and i know this may sound  kind of weird but there have been a lot of times   where we've sort of talked a little bit about you  know maybe how you're feeling or or you know like   for example like that you don't feel lonely and  even you're a little bit surprised at that and in   my experience actually like psychologically and  neuroscientifically like sometimes what happens   when people are survivors is parts of their brain  actually shut down because like you were kind   of saying if you didn't shut those parts of the  brain down it'd be like going to an aaa meeting   talking about all the negativity and it just sort  of like feels worse and worse and worse and so   sometimes what the brain actually does is numb  ourselves to negative emotions and the last kind   of thing that i'd sort of share with you is that  you know you were talking a little bit about how   like you don't like to wallow in the negativity  which i get because you're not a victim and all   that kind of good stuff but there was a little bit  of time today where you sort of did share hey the   one place where i think if i you know if anyone  wanted to call me a victim it was in this place   you got pissed off you started off you can even go  back and watch this you started off laughing about   it and then towards the end you really got angry  and then i kind of asked you like how does it feel   to talk about it you actually said good now i'm  not i i think if we had spent an hour and a half   talking about it you would feel worse at the end  but what i'm sort of maybe yeah well you're the   one who said that wallowing in the negativity  makes you feel generally speaking worse but   so so this is where you know what i i'm kind of  noticing is like you're someone who had to kind of   adapt you had to survive you had to learn how to  laugh you had to learn how to swim yeah you had to   you know tit for tat and at the same time like the  cost of that survivor that survival like you know   his his comet maybe like you know to a certain  degree like kind of toning down your compassion   toning down your empathy toning down even feelings  of loneliness or negative emotions because you've   said time and time and time again everything to me  is funny everything is to me is funny i'm a happy   guy right and so what i'm sort of noticing there  is like that seems really unusual and so there's a   part of me that you know based on our conversation  makes me wonder whether there's like stuff that's   kind of like tucked away swept under the rug that  i think i just i have a different personality type   i have a rare type i've been typed before  i'm just i have a rare personality type   you know does it make me special or  not and i just see things differently   i don't know yeah i i get that i mean i i think  that you do see things it's better than laughing   try doc isn't it i mean i mean i had i had  a therapist tell me jimmy about my family   she said there's the brady bunch and then there's  everybody else so you know that helped put it in   perspective yeah so here's what i'd say i i'd  say that it's it's it's best to laugh and cry no no i ain't cried in a while yeah  right and like even then you kind   of said i haven't cried in a while and  then you laughed what's funny about that yeah so because when you say better to  laugh that's kind of interesting because   what that doesn't mean i'm looking to cry oh  i think it means you're looking to not cry   right so when you say it's better to  laugh than to cry and every time you laugh   what i'm sort of noticing is  that you've got a choice there   and you're deviating towards laughter instead  of crying i wouldn't say that i i think um i'm just a happy good lucky person and there's  there's nothing in my life that would make me   cry right now it's true nothing like you know  like like like i don't know i mean okay it's   not an option to cry there's nothing to cry about  things are this is one like one the best period of   my life i got a little youtube channel you know i  mean uh i i like that that's going pretty good um   yeah quick quit one job for another got two more  hours now you know i'm doing all right yeah i hear   that man i i i don't disagree with you i'm not  saying that you need to sit there and and you   know cry all day oh my god your life is crap and  and things like that what i'm sort of saying is   that you know i think that you've got maybe one  or two things that you could feel rightfully sad   about but i sort of also understand that you  know playing a victim is not something that   you're gonna do when i think a little bit about  your daughter and and her being at harvard and   i hear you kind of speak with pride and also that  she's been poisoned against you like i think it'd   be okay to shed a tear on that if you felt like  it nah you know sometimes i get a little sad about   it but i've i basically convinced myself that  look a kid has reached the pinnacle of schools   she's not going to run for anything if she plays  her cards right and up to now she's played her   cards right so she's not going to need her father  that much and if she doesn't want me in her life   then that's her choice there's nothing i can  do about it so you used an interesting word   i've gotten a few hobbies look  i started painting that's great jimmy i just want to point one thing out  to you and then we we can you know can that   discussion but okay you said i've convinced  myself so when someone uses that word when   i think about convincing what i think about  is starting from a place where you believe   one thing and working really hard to believe  something else well in a sense yes because look   let's face it that's a sad situation the kid  ain't talking to me yeah right there's nothing   i can do about it there's nothing i can do about  so hopefully the kid grows the [ __ ] up and you   know like apparently it was okay for this woman to  falsely accuse me three times twice of abusing her   once i'm abusing yeah so jimmy can i cut you off  again is that okay so here's here's what i'd say   i'm with you that there's nothing you can do about  it so a lot of times when there's nothing we can   do about something like why cry about it right  because it's not gonna help anything i'm with   you makes perfect sense right so like why why  what's use of crying over spilled milk right so this is the last thing that i'd leave with  you and you know you you don't have to agree   with whatever i'm saying it's really just i'm just  making observations and you can you can decide you   know you're the expert on you so the last thing  that i'd say is like you know i'd encourage you   to try you know if you're a funny dude that's  fine you find something funny that's fine   i'd encourage you to try to be like a  little bit more compassionate towards people   who may be confused or struggling or see  themselves as victims i'm not saying that   they are victims i'm not saying that there's an  objective right or wrong but what i've heard from   you time and time and time again is that there  have been periods in your life where like whether   you were a victim or you weren't a victim you  know whether it was really your fault that you   got sent off to these schools or things like that  whether they formed you into being the person that   you are and so therefore good experiences i'm  with you all all through that even in terms of   my own video game addiction i'm grateful for it  because it turned me into the person that i am   and at the same time while i'm going through  it if someone sort of shares a kind word with   me even if my head is in the wrong space i don't  understand exactly what's going on you've kind of   said that about yourself you know when you were  kind of like going through this a a stuff and   you started to have realizations that during  that dark period before you understand things   that a kind word or even someone sort of like  you know taking you seriously and saying hey   i don't think that's really what it is  can actually have like a positive impact   and what i'd encourage you to kind of think about  is like you know these people that you kind of   call snowflakes and stuff like that you know i  don't know if there's an objective right here or   an objective wrong you may think that there's an  objective right i think that it's possible that   your decisions are also your judgments are also  emotional and then you know no amount of truth   is going to change your mind what i'm saying is  just like from a human perspective even if you can   think they're ridiculous can you be kind to them  too oh absolutely one one of one of the quotes in the book of alcoholics anonymous says those  we dislike you practice justice and courtesy   so i mean you got to be fair with people and  you got to be silly you know you got to try to   be civil with them you know we really should  fight fire with water you know quite often i   gotta fight fire with fire yeah backwards but  yeah yeah what do you think about that bro   i get myself into some situations yeah so you know  just one last thought and then you know david can   talk or you can talk i'm kind of done with my  spiel but you know just like you said like it   sounds like a lot of times you fight fire with  fire and the words came out of your mouth like   some maybe you should think about using water from  time to time bro oh yeah sometimes weather doesn't   make sense when when you're dealing with somebody  who's irrational and unreasonable no well i i   look i'm not saying that fire isn't appealing  but i'd i'd even argue that the more rational   someone is the more water helps rather than  fire i don't know if they're willing to listen yep yeah i think it's tricky but you  know i'm i'm hearing that maybe you're   rethinking things a little bit but you know you  came to use fire for a reason right because the   water wasn't working well and at the same time  maybe there's some exploration to have there   i think with what i went through in my  life i've turned down pretty goddamn good   and i'm relatively happy so yeah yeah no problem  with my life i i think i think you've done a good   i'm about to say something that make you let  me know if this is like a victim complex kind   of thing but i would say given the hand of  cards that you've been dealt you played a   really good game of poker yeah maybe leave me  i [ __ ] up along the way yeah learn more from   fuck-ups to any kind of success trust me abs  absolutely man i hear you failure is overrated underrated can i ask a quick question jimmy you  know when you when you and i started kind of uh   i don't know about corresponding  but when you started calling in   there was a different sort of anger that i feel  like in our interactions has dissipated over time   where you and i have even communicated privately  by email and i feel like it's a different jimmy   than from maybe a couple years ago is that about  something has changed for you over the last couple   years or is that about your relationship with  me specifically i would say lsd has helped me   that's i honestly believe this  may be happier yeah honestly   now i get in arguments with these people online  they say oh it taught me this it taught me that   lsd it's a drug it ain't teaching you [ __ ]  but it does seem to make me happier it does seem   to make me want to take risks now like i i was  afraid to start the youtube channel that i got   and i was unconfident about it i don't know how  to do this i don't know how to do that [ __ ] it   i just did it i don't even know how to do this [  __ ] you guys help me right so i see somebody who   doesn't know how to do something i'm willing  to help them that's how it should work right   so you just have to have the will to do something  you don't necessarily have to understand it   know how to do it you just move towards it  right that's what i'm doing words to live by wow and jimmy did i'm just curious and  you don't if you don't want to answer that   this obviously you don't  have to do you own firearms   i'm a felon i can't okay okay i wouldn't own one  anyway i have no problem with people to do but i   have no need for a gun oh is that right yeah i've  you know i could defend myself but some people   it's their right no they they have a  right to do it i lost that right by being   convicted so yeah well wow well jimmy  listen you you've really said it all i   mean i don't know about you dr k but this  has been incredibly illuminating to me   same i mean i i i really appreciated you  know jimmy's honesty and his perspective and   his cojones for coming on and and kind of maybe  stepping a touch outside i had fun fellas yeah i   hear you man yeah maybe that's my oh sorry  dr k no no good i was just gonna say like   jimmy you gotta you gotta talk to your doc  about you know all the stuff you're using bro okay that was actually no but jimmy what i was curious is during this  hour and a half i think it's been consistent cool   whip cigarettes and vaping the the entire time  is this all day while you're up or are you maybe   like understandably a little nervous about this  conversation so you're doing it or is that all day   well listen whippet gods were good to me   they just delivered 600 150  minutes before the stream started no but what i'm asking jimmy is from the time  you wake up till you go to sleep are you cool   no no no no no i do hit these whippets a little  hard i mean you know but not in the morning or not   you know i mean okay and then absolute last thing  just because aaa was such a prevalent thing are   are you sober now from the standpoint of alcohol  no but i don't drink as much okay i was knocking   down two bottles of that whiskey a week i've had  that for 10 days the bottle behind you yeah so   i'll drink i'll drink um three strong beers nine  or ten percent a night of course in five hours   i'm not driving i'm doing a stream david i'm kind  of curious what pushes you to ask questions to to   uh fill about his i sorry jimmy about  how much substances he's using well my   i'm curious in my interactions with  him how influenced by substance use   they might be because i'm hearing you know  i'm getting an email or hearing a voicemail   and my instinct is it would help me maybe  to frame the context a little bit if i know   maybe what his state of mind is  that's my kind of curiosity about it well okay jimmy any questions from your end yeah  yeah i had a great time thanks fellas   all right thank you let's do this  again in a year let's do this again   sure david you want to go and wrap up or yeah  well listen i appreciate everybody's time   jimmy uh you know you and i have known each  other a couple years now in some sense and   this has really been informative for me  i feel like i better understand you now   and uh you know dr k i really appreciate you  lending your expertise and uh um uh you know   leading us through this i feel like i've learned  a lot yeah well i mean let me say this david   my end game here with you right is to get you  to debate the hard bastard and one day you're   gonna do it sorry who the hot bastard the hard  bastard okay all right well let's we'll let's   talk about that in this new spirit of openness  and uh exploration and honesty this sounds great our bastard is a youtuber that eviscerates  you david every night he streams   in fact he'll be on tonight doing a segment on  you okay it's absolutely hilarious it's absolutely   hilarious david all right very good all right uh  okay thanks so much guys dr k really appreciate   it yeah thanks a lot for the opportunity jimmy it  was nice to meet you man and nice to meet you take   care thanks for setting this up all right david  thank you all right we'll talk to everybody soon now that was something else chat what on earth okay my favorite quotes you gotta fight fire with fire   and beat them at their own game sometimes  fire doesn't work you gotta use water   jimmy was fantastic man you know it's so  interesting because i i think a lot of times we um oh maybe i need to go this way oh my god so i think a lot of times man i i don't even what did y'all think chad um like people are saying like it was i  mean he was he was quite the character   and and it's really interesting because i you know  i i think it's like i don't know if y'all kind of   caught this but at the very beginning like it was  really hard to get him to talk about himself it's   like any personal question you ask him becomes  about propaganda and so like the media and like it   becomes like an externalized issue and then once  you start to like actually get him talking like   you know i i think he's someone that really  views the world is like you know he's had to   i want you all to just think about this for  a second so sometimes when people have very   strong views they're incredibly rigid right like  they're like super rigid with their thinking and   it's good once you make an emotional judgment no  nuclear bomb of truth will change your mind so   sometimes i'll talk to people who have very very  strong and rigid views and and you know it's not   really my place to say what's logical or illogical  it's not you know but i think what's really   interesting is that if you listen to his life like  my experience people i don't really know 100 with   him but generally speaking when there are people  who grow up in really difficult circumstances the need to adapt and survive has  to come with a ton of rigidity   right like you you gotta wear a full plate armor  in those kinds of situations like going to a court   after being at a school and then like graduating  from the school and wanting to go home   and having your mom sit there and say he can't  come home like you gotta build pretty big walls   and we can kind of like note and i shared  this with him i mean i i don't usually   i not usually i almost never talk about people  when they're not on stream but i feel it's okay   because he was just there and i told it to his  face but it's kind of interesting right because   he has a peculiar absence of like certain  emotions and what i've seen a lot in people   who have traumatic upbringings especially men is  that the most accessible emotion is like anger   and we can kind of see that and and it's kind of  interesting to hear him sort of talk about you   know how angry he was and stuff like that and  then underneath that so i kind of think about   anger as an umbrella emotion which means that  it's the emotion that covers all other emotions   but you know i have to imagine i mean i don't  really know but like you know if i had to put   myself in his shoes and you know i did something  right in terms of raising my daughter and she   wound up at harvard of all places in spite of all  of her circumstances i imagine i would feel pride   i imagine i would feel shame i imagine i would  feel angry at her for like not maintaining a   relationship with me and allowing herself to be  poisoned and then i imagine that in addition to   feeling angry with her i would work really hard  to devalue those feelings within myself right   so i would try to convince myself that i wasn't  angry with her because that's a crappy thing to do   and we want the best for her and i don't really  deserve it and it's not really her fault and all   that kind of stuff right like and that's just kind  of you know i don't i don't really know where i'm   going with this but i think it was just really  eye-opening to talk to him and i can sort of see   now where a lot of like rigid beliefs sort of come  from and what i've noticed with people who are   very like politically charged and also like  don't express a whole lot of compassion is that   there is an immense amount of rigidity that these  people often times like so i remember back in 2016   um so when trump first won the election so i was  at uh you know i was training at harvard medical   school at the time and like i was in this like  group therapy education thing so i was like in a   classroom with like a bunch of my colleagues  and like psychologists and stuff like that phd   students and so people were talking about  the election and and how it made them feel   and so i sort of shared this idea i was like you  know everyone's like i don't understand how anyone   could vote for trump he's like so despicable and  they kind of point out like all of like the the   worst things in their mind about trump and so i  sort of said because i'm from texas right so i've   like talked to some of these people and i sort of  said like you know i don't think people are voting   for him because of those things i think y'all are  missing like a big part of what he's appealing to   and what trump is really appealing to is that like  there are a lot of people who have been growing   increasingly disenfranchised they're  getting squeezed their life is getting worse   and like year after year like all they see is like  the sort of the easy life of the 80s and 90s kind   of like decaying towards 2016. you know your house  is in disrepair you've got like a truck on cinder   blocks in your front yard um you know you can't  afford health care and and all that kind of stuff   and so what he was is like a  great big screw you to the system   and i just don't think that like people in the  academic setting like i don't think they've spent   time in like you know rural ohio or rural texas  so they can't fathom what these people go through   and what i found time and time and time again  is that you know people who are very like rigid   politically and also like trump kind of supporters  is that their lives are like incredibly hard and i   don't quite understand i'm not i don't mean to say  i think it's actually like really kind of unfair   to say that if your life sucks like that's why you  support trump like people have their beliefs for a   reason and we should respect that instead of you  know assigning some kind of weird psychological   reason but it's just a pattern that i've noticed  that when people have really really hard lives   you know sometimes it really galvanizes them  and it sort of like really forms they have to   form really rigid thinking almost to sort of  survive how do you make sense of a world where   each light each each time like the world gets like  each year that goes by the world gets a little bit   harder and a little bit harder and a little bit  harder and a little bit harder and so i i think i   don't you know it's something worth exploring it's  just a pattern that i've seen and i think it's   interesting because david even said he was like  i'm not surprised to hear this story which makes   you think right why is not even david surprised  to hear this story i mean he has no training in   psychology and i don't think it's necessarily  a psychological thing i think sometimes our   political beliefs have a lot to do with our  upbringing which sort of makes sense right um i think we see this a lot with like  doomers and in cells and stuff like that   too like the way that you believe that  the world works is heavily influenced by   the way that your brain interprets the world  works and the really tricky thing there is   that your experiences are a hundred percent real  but your conclusions and the abstractions that   you draw from the world are not 100 real and  this is the really tricky thing is that when   you talk with someone who believes their  abstractions about the world are 100 real   what you're really running up against is their  experience which is absolutely 100 real so if   i asked out three girls and i saw the three girls  that i asked out ended up dating football players   that experience can form a view of the world  that is like very very rigid and we can't blame   that person for believing that because like you  know we all form beliefs about the world based on   our experiences it's literally how our brain is  designed it's how we learn how to walk it's why   kids drop things on the floor when they're eating  right they're like learning how gravity works   and based on your individual experience you draw  conclusions about okay this is how gravity works so you know i'm actually pretty hopeful i think  jimmy i i actually feel really hopeful for him   in some ways um i think i don't know if you  guys caught this but he was making a lot of   contradictory statements towards the end you know  just like a lot of like you know you gotta fight   fight like the whole time it's like when someone  wrongs you you can't it's not just payback it's   like you gotta overdo it like if you fight like  you wanna you wanna you know toss and match my   way i'm gonna toss you know a torch your way  and and so towards the end some of that stuff   and i think he's really had some experiences  where like you know hopefully he's one step   closer to being compassionate and understanding  and it sort of makes sense why he makes fun of   people right because that's sort of like what  happened like even his a sponsor made fun of him   he was a funny guy so that's just  you know it means a different thing so so rl was saying he was more open-minded than  i expected so this is my experience this is really   important so i think most human beings are pretty  open-minded the only challenge is that when you   engage with them about a rigid thing and you  try to argue with them they're not open-minded   be someone being more open-minded than you  expected has a lot to do with the way that   i approach him so when you approach someone with  a closed mind they are going to be close-minded   when you approach someone with an open  mind they're more likely to be open-minded   and so like i see this a lot with especially  political discussions and even fall victim   to it myself where like sometimes if i have a  belief and i start off like pretending to be   open-minded by asking questions and listening  to them like you can you can notice this   thought process in your head where you can like  ask a question but you don't really care what   they say you're not really listening what they  say you've already formed your own conclusion   and you're just waiting for them to stop talking  so that you can point out how they're wrong that   person is going to be close-minded because  you're approaching them in a closed-minded way   right it's sort of like i'm going to trap you  with my questions and what do you think about   this i'm just using that as a facade to pretend  i'm open-minded and therefore as soon as you're   done talking i'm going to tell you how you're  wrong if that's the way that you approach people   you're going to be they're going to be  close-minded because you're being close-minded   so and this is we've seen this time and  time and time again on stream right like   we kind of joke that we haven't had a real incel  on stream and like why is that it's because you   know you know the the fire breathing angry incels  that we see on the internet when you actually   approach them with like compassion and an open  mind like they all turn out to be relatively   recent decent people and like well i mean i  don't know about all but you know we've got   a sample size of like two or three or whatever  you know and that's been my experience so in in   terms of y'all if you guys you know have political  beliefs that you disagree with or someone who's   super rigid even like parents who are narcissistic  trying to understand them can go a really long way   like and and sort of doing your best to sort  of like recognize that this is a human being   who believes what they believe  for a reason they're not stupid   and this is the other thing that happens with  trump supporters right is like people call them   stupid like that's not gonna work all you're  gonna do is galvanize their beliefs cause them   to dig their heels in more and double down on  what they believe so you know i've had some um   you know some interactions with folks  who are like anti-vaxx and then like   you know got sick and then you know telling  them hey this is dumb you should you know this   is your fault you deserve this is not an effective  strategy that actually causes them to double down   and sort of saying you know treating them like  treating human beings who are sick with compassion   is the right move irrespective of what their   you know vaccine beliefs are you're allowed to  feel frustrated you're allowed to think that   it's incorrect that they believe that way but  like i think they still deserve your compassion   right i told you so is not a winning  strategy to like open people's minds up you

Channel: HealthyGamerGG

Views: 376,922

Rating: 4.893146 out of 5

Keywords: davidpakman, doctor k, dr k jimmy, dr kanojia, dr.k, drk, healthy gamer gg, healthygamergg, jimmyfromphilly, mental health, politcs, proud, proudboy, psychiatrist, psychology, society, therapist, trump, trumpsupporter, twitch

Id: bMOF0Go6brw

Length: 101min 10sec (6070 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 01 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/JWisfine]

Reminder that even though the topic at hand can be divisive, please be respectful in your comments, and stay away from political discussion as per the subreddit rules. Thanks!

[u/benjubeai]

I just finished watching the video, and it was amazing, to see Dr. K open the book of Jimmy. In some ways the guy reminds me of my father, in some even of myself. I believe, showing the humanity, of whatever political side your on, enables dialogue. Jimmys story, is a sad one though, and in my time as a barkeep, and heavy drinker myself, I learned, nobody drinks a lot because they're happy. The same goes for smoking, it puts a veil on your perception of your emotions, and of the world around you.

And there's one question, I would've liked Dr. K asked of Jimmy, in the context of, the world is hard and you're going to be made fun of, "does it have to be that way ? Can't you change the world to be a little less tough, if you're kinder to people, to not make them feel ashamed for how they are? "

Because imagine if Jimmys skipping down the road was seen as, okay, maybe even he could've skipped into a place like Harvard...

[u/Nextmastermind]

I am very much on the opposite political end of the spectrum as Jimmy, but my heart can't help but feel sorrow for his tough life. I guess it just goes to show that you can't hate anybody once you know their story.

[u/MilkStud]

What an enthralling discussion and video. I took so much from it and loved that someone like Jimmy was able to be a guest. I think I read a post somewhere on this subreddit regarding selection bias of guests, which quite understandably makes sense. The channel is called Healthygamergg after all, which means it caters to a particular niche. The truth is though, that if you've ever worked in mental health, and even more specifically substance abuse, you'll encounter a multitude of people just like Jimmy. As someone who doesn't share any of his political beliefs, I still found that Jimmy made some cogent points regarding why he believes what he does. He even shared a few great quotes ("Therapy is meant to shape you up so you settle down differently"). That being said, there were numerous contradictions, overcompensations, and just a general lack of insight into himself. Dr. K really tried throughout the interview to help shed some light into this in a non pejorative way, but you can't really show someone what they're unwilling to see. One red flag/contradiction/overcompensation I noticed was how often Jimmy would say how happy he is/was. When people repeatedly make the same statement, it makes me skeptical regarding the veracity of it. It makes me question whether they're just trying to convince you (or sometimes themselves) that it's true. Truly happy people don't abuse substances to the point where it has caused legal, medical (?), and relationship problems (major conflict with ex-wife/estrangement from daughter). It's also hard to be blissfully happy when your mother has severe bipolar that has resulted in hospitalizations, people are trying to medicate you for ADHD (which I would venture to guess he might have), and you're being shipped off to places to fix your "problematic" behaviors. Furthermore, being bullied into conformity and punished for acting differently (i.e. something as innocuous as skipping gets punished for being "gay") doesn't sound too happy either. Dr. K recognized that there was a deep sadness in all of this that's shrouded by anxious laughter and the defense of "I just find everything funny." The anxious energy was incredibly palpable by Jimmy's constant movement, restlessness, and chain smoking. My guess is that while the interview could have made him more nervous, his resting baseline isn't far from that. That's a lot of physical/emotional unrest he is perpetually having to regulate.

Dr. K's post interview thoughts were incredibly edifying as well. I watch these videos off Youtube so they're clipped, but I hope he does this often on the VOD. The interview/discussion itself really displayed Dr. K's incredible skills as a therapist. He is 100% right in that these interviews seem "smooth" to us not because the people are all affable, but because Dr. K knows exactly how to approach someone, how to develop rapport/trust, how to create a safe space, and how to not trigger their defenses. He doesn't get embroiled in an argument about right/wrong, he simply seeks to understand the person, validate their feelings, and offer an alternative perspective/observations. "It's tricky", as Dr. K would say because people sometimes throw out bait in these discussions which can reel you into a contentious debate. A perfect example of this in Jimmy's interview is when he is ranting about his legal case with his ex-wife and how she's a liar. As he's telling the story my spider senses were tingling as far as the plausibility of what he was saying and all the possible information Jimmy was leaving out, whether intentionally or inadvertently. He had a narrative ("My ex-wife is a liar") and he told a story that corroborated it. Dr. K didn't get sucked into this debate with him though and simply addressed the core emotions; indignation, a lack of justice, and *gasp* victimhood.

The wisdom Dr. K shares isn't novel. They're relayed messages from the yogis and buddhists. What's impressive though is the way he masterfully and eloquently delivers them. The conversation with Jimmy could have went south 100 times throughout the discussion, but it never did. Even initially it was difficult to get Jimmy to open up as he would deflect from answering questions and go on a tirade pontificating about his beliefs. But some how that suave son of a bitch Dr. K managed to redirect and get to the root of the issue; Jimmy's upbringing, experiences, and how all of it has shaped his perceptions of the world. More interviews like this please!

[u/Ultramayhemagents]

I like how politics was only brought up in the first 5 to 10 minutes of the video and the rest was really exploring a story.

In some ways this guy reminded me of movie Joker 2019. One might think his life's a tragedy, but to him, it's comedy.

[u/1539CalvertSt]

I didn't think this interview would be so insightful after reading the title but I'm blown away after finishing it.

My parents have similarly stubborn exteriors with views that are not too far off from Jimmy. And I've always resented that. But realizing that they're probably still hurting... from all of the pain and struggle they both went through. It breaks my heart.

I still want to stay away from them cause they're not vaccinated. But.... man. I have a lot to process

[u/TalionTheRanger93]

I just hope everyone doesn't see this person as the averge right winger. It's a broad spectrum, and he is not indictive of everyone.

[u/animalcrossingfan20]

Would love to hear more of Dr. K's insight on the following ideas he brought up in the post interview chat. I think it can be summarized generally as:

"We form beliefs about the world based on our experiences. However, the conclusions and the abstractions we draw from the world are not 100% real."

I think this is very important philosophically/spiritually, but also from a neurological/psychological perspective.

Who gets to draw the lines between reality and delusion?

It is kind of like how Jimmy says over and over that he is a happy/funny guy and maybe genuinely believes it, but to many people he is probably quite a sad case and his sense of humour makes people uncomfortable.

If these topics were covered by Dr. K in a different video, please share the link!

[u/miathan52]

This was a really interesting talk. I've never really understood these kinds of people and I feel like this talk gave us all a valuable insight into why they might be the way they are.