Talking With an Actual Incel? | Dr. K Interviews

just a quick a couple of reminders before we get started the first is that we're launching uh a bunch of slots on our coaching program on september 4th which is this friday and for everybody who's supported us so far just a reminder that like you guys have made the coaching program possible um so thank you guys very much for doing that and yeah so like all of the donations twitch prime subs donated subs yeah so thank you guys very much for supporting the stream yeah so this week we're going to talk to a potential incel and uh yeah i couldn't i noticed oh yeah i'm wearing this fleece today this one even has my name on it oh there we go can you see me yeah i can see you okay hold on yeah sorry i i uh i wish i prepared for this a little bit better that's okay man we you know a big part of the stream is is technical difficulties and poor preparation so yeah you you're you're right at home buddy and what's your name friend uh you just call me ganny like last time okay and so for those of you who don't know ganny was on the ban appeal stream is that right yeah and you were did you get unbanned by the way what happened yeah no i ended up getting unbanned awesome dude congratulations yeah and uh i think it was jake that unbanned me incorrect who wasn't it was twitch at twitch yeah you offered your case to twitch and and twitch found you worthy of mercy well thank you so much twitch john yeah man i think we're we're we're rooting for you danny so yeah tell me a little bit about what we're talking about today well as far as my understanding goes we're talking about the uh because last time when i was on the ban appeal stream there was uh the the issue came up about whether or not i'm an in-cell so uh i guess it's about better understanding what it means to be an incel or what uh whether or not i guess i qualify as an insult and what like what that's all about okay yeah so uh can you tell can you just recap for people like and for myself like what what was the reason that you were banned i know we don't want to get too much into that but well i was banned because of some comments i made that were like considered uh either insensitive or not safe for work or like offensive okay and um and and so what's your understanding of like you know when you came on the stream and you said hey this is what happened do you have a sense of like what twitch chat resonated with in terms of like why they thought you should be unbanned well i think it's because they saw my ability to look back at some of the things i said and maybe reflect on them and i guess like some people i'm not sure if everybody liked the fact that i laughed at them but i think they kind of were able to appreciate the fact that at least i was able to find like at least i was able to look back and reflect on maybe how uh the kind of things i said and what that meant yeah absolutely man i think that's a great way to put it so i think we you know appreciate people i think we're as a community we're here to like grow and learn from our mistakes right it's not about being perfect it's about learning from where you misstep and and i think in that way again you actually exemplify you know what we want to build right is a place where people come and they learn something about themselves and hopefully they grow from it so thank you very much for coming on last time and just being a part of the community and and hanging out on discord i'm i'm really grateful to you man yeah no problem man so tell me a little bit about um i mean this term incel do you think you fall into that category yay nay well i think by definition like if you think about it as just somebody who's involuntarily celibate somebody who maybe wants to get a date or wants to be able to be sexually active but isn't i would say i fit in that category in the sense that i mean i've tried many things i've tried like approaching girls i've tried doing all sorts of things to try to get get uh i guess girls to like like me but none of it's really worked out it's gotten rejected a lot okay um and i think they're and i think the part about insult the insult terminology that uh i guess a part of it is about resentment towards women okay and i think that in some ways i harbor some sorts of resentment but i don't i see that as more of a negative thing i don't see it as like uh i see it as like unproductive the result man i think sure so can you tell us a little bit there's that word approach again we had that word on friday used a lot um and and so ganny do you mind if i ask like ballpark of how old you are i'm 19. okay and and how old do you have a sense of like how old you are before you become an incel like do you have to try for a certain amount of time or is it just sort of like well i think i've i've heard the number 24 thrown around but i'm not sure i mean i'm not quite there yet i have a few years but i think i i think uh in some ways there are certain things that are determined like at a very young age like your appearance or your social skills that can also affect your ability to uh attract women i think your social skills are determined at an early age well by i think it depends on how you're raised and depends on the environment your your you live in i think okay okay and your appearance is determined when you when you're born yeah although i guess there can be changes in appearance when you get older like uh if you work out or even if you don't like sometimes your face changes you grow into your face a little bit more so sure i guess that's why some people don't consider people who are like teenagers or younger to be in cells necessarily and and so if we're talking about sort of what was determined when you were born um do you feel like you kind of got a a particular hand of cards dealt to you when you were born yeah for sure can you tell us about that well i think uh as far as my appearance goes like uh i'm not wearing a mask i mean there may be a couple reasons why i'm wearing a mask but i think one of them is uh insecurity about how i look and i feel like appearance for me at least recently has been a pretty significant issue when it comes to like self-confidence and self-esteem i think so i think that's one of the cards i was dealt with when i was born and i think uh i think that's i honestly think that appearance plays a very big role in attraction just because like i feel like i i feel like the way you behave also does but two two people with like varying levels of attractiveness can behave the same way and it'll be taken a bit differently you know what i mean sure absolutely i remember seeing this uh cold i think tinder profile or something where some some someone made like a profile of uh like with like a male models picture and basically said in the the blurb that in the tinder profile that he was either like a convicted sex offender or a pedophile or something really bad and and he still got bunches of like you know women swiping right is that swiping right now is accept or reject except yeah okay yeah so you say you're insecure about how you look and appearance certainly plays a role um how does how long have you been insecure about how you look i think well i've um i feel like i've been insecure about it for maybe a few years now i think for a while i just didn't care about it but that's because i wasn't really concerned about like attracting women that much so i wasn't really super concerned about how i looked to me how i looked is just like a side effect there was just something very small so i never really paid too much attention to it because i didn't think it was necessary to pay attention to okay can you just tell me a little bit about um how you grew up uh that's a bit like what specifically i'm sorry i'm just curious like you know what was what was it like growing up for you who was at home uh well i lived with my i i've lived with my mom for most of my life uh and i was mainly i mean like are you talking about like home life specifically or sure yeah yeah no it was my mom and she's had like uh partners and stuff like boyfriends and stuff but my parents divorced and i was pretty young uh so yeah i was going on mainly and i saw my dad on weekends and stuff what was your relationship like with your mom and dad um my relationship with my parents in some ways uh well in some ways my relationship with my mom is was kind of it was pretty close but um it's also kind of complicated and my relationship with my dad has been a little bit distant but he's been there like well i feel like when i've needed him he's been there some other times i think he's been there some of the times yeah and is there can you tell us what you mean by when you've needed him can you share like a like what's a time like what's an example of that well like um there's just been times like i feel like when i was growing up i i i never really like i certain things like how to talk to like girls for instance or how to talk to like other people i feel like it's something that your dad can teach you and my dad wasn't really like talking to me about that stuff as much or what if he did try to talk to me about that i wouldn't really want to talk about that so i would listen so yeah so i'm trying to get a sense of i mean so if you weren't sort of taught how to do this properly is that because your dad kind of dropped the ball there or is it you almost mentioned like you maybe didn't want to talk about it well it's like a mix of both i just kind of didn't care at that age i didn't really start to care about like talking to girls until i was like maybe 17. okay and do you think where do you think you know what a bell curve is yeah what's where does that fall in under the bell curve of when people get interested in talking about girls um i feel like that's pretty late although like i was interested in girls well also i was interested in girls in like middle school and then berlin throughout high school throughout most of high school i just wasn't interested in girls really and can you tell me about what school was like well i went to a very small school so there wasn't really a lot of like different kinds of girls so i wasn't really attracted to anybody at school so i just to me like school was about hanging out with my friends and like like learning and stuff and it wasn't really i never really thought too much about girls because me the girls that i was uh grew up with were not very attractive so i just kind of didn't pay attention to them i see so it seems like the girls that are worth paying attention to are people that are attracted well the kind of girls like i guess the girls i was interested in dating like i wasn't interested in dating anybody in school until i was like 17. okay and what happened when you were 17 well when i was 17 i started to get attracted to this one girl who i uh that at school that kind of got me interested in girls again and um i think that was when i started thinking about like oh why don't i have a girlfriend or when can i get a girlfriend is when i started like trying to get this girl's attention or trying to i guess get this girl to like me can you tell us about her uh yeah well i mean the thing about this girl is like at first uh i i talked to her and i was pretty upfront with my uh intentions like i told her i was into her and i asked her like out on a date but she said it was really weird because she rejected me but then for like a week straight she would like text me like almost 24 7 and cut constantly keep in contact with me and then after that she just kind of dropped off and stopped talking to me how do you understand that well i still i still it's still hard to wrap my head around just because i don't know why you give somebody so much attention after rejecting them and like why you would um like what i was like was she kind of into me but then i was thinking if she wasn't to me she wouldn't have rejected me unless if like she just i don't know like like i i don't really know what that what she was trying to communicate with that kind of interaction yeah that's it a damn confusing situation yeah can you tell me what you mean by she rejected you well she just said she wasn't ready for a relationship so it wasn't straight up but it was like it was kind of like a little bit left in the air but it was like uh it was she just said she wasn't ready for a relationship and she didn't really want to date me specifically because of that uh but she didn't really straight up it was hard to really tell she was saying like i'm not interested in you or i'm just not interested in a relationship right now in general so okay so when she said she wasn't interested and and you like you like walk like can you walk me through like what happened like you just walked up to her and you said hey i'd really like to take like what'd you what can you walk would do a play-by-play of the interaction so i think there's one message i messaged her on instagram i remember and uh i i i think i at first i was just asking how she was doing and then i was asking like how she was like i was just trying to start small talk but i guess it's kind of weird to go right from that so like oh i like you uh i i can't remember the exact messages but um how much time between the small talk and the stating your intentions uh i think i i don't as far as i remember well there wasn't a lot of time no are we talking like minutes hours days or weeks i think minutes or or minutes to like maybe like 10 minutes i don't know okay um and what's your perception of like what's in her head like do women walk around and sort of have a kind of a conscious understanding of like okay these are the three dudes i'm willing to date these are the seven dudes i'm not willing to date like how does that work well i mean what i i've been told in the past that like a lot of the times girls know whether or not they're attracted to you like within like seconds of meeting you and that uh there are certain guys that they are just be attracted to and certain guys that they'll just not be attracted to and it's not just looks but based off of certain factors like looks or like personnel like when you say you've been told where where i mean who told you that well i've talked people on the internet okay it's actually a pretty good source of information but what do you think about it kenny well i think it makes sense to me because like usually i know who i'm interested in pretty quickly although it does take me a little bit of time like i feel like there are many girls that i'm like attracted to like i think they're attractive but i wouldn't necessarily date so maybe it does take a bit more time i don't know okay so it sounds like you know who you're attracted to pretty quickly okay um and and what do you think could be happening when when you talk to someone and you say hey how's it going do you like the weather small talk small talk and then you're like hey i'm really interested in going out with you what do you think are the range of possibilities of what could be going on inside the person that you're talking to when you transition from small talk to like letting someone know that you like them like the brains of sorry can you say that again yeah like what are the range of things that she could be experiencing well maybe it could like take her by surprise but i i guess it wouldn't really take her by surprise because a lot of girls kind of know if you just start messaging them randomly like a lot of girls kind of expect that you're interested in them if you're randomly sending them messages you know what i mean how do you know what a lot of girls expect well because i i will i assume at least that girls get messages a lot from like guys that are trying to hit them up because they're like interested in them or whatever okay so it sounds like an assumption on your part yeah no definitely an assumption okay um so you said that maybe she feels surprised but then you sort of walked that back and you thought maybe she doesn't feel surprised so what do you think is surprise a possibility yeah it's just a possibility but i'm not 100 sure necessarily sure so what else is a possibility the possibility is maybe that she expects it or she's just waiting for you to say that because she kind of expects that you're gonna say it sure so she's waiting for you to ask her out yeah what else um [Music] well maybe she maybe she maybe the girl might perceive it as being like uh like there's something there's something wrong with kind of saying that like it's uncomfortable like she might feel uncomfortable with randomly being like going from like small talk to like being asked out i don't know sure she could feel uncomfortable what else could she feel this is a great great hypothesis generation ganny um she might feel i don't know like i can't think of anything else i'm gonna be honest okay so maybe she's feels fear yeah right like maybe she's afraid of what this means or something like that maybe she feels joy maybe she's like you said been waiting for you to ask her out maybe she feels um valued or important flattered absolutely yeah right um maybe she feels confused because maybe she feels like more than one thing right so maybe she's flattered and confused maybe she's been waiting for you i i think what i'm kind of sensing though is that there's just a lot of different things that she could be feeling what do you think yeah no that makes sense to me okay and so if someone's feeling a lot of different things and you ask them a yes or no question like hey do you want to xyz what do you think they'd say um well it might be a complicated answer just because of all the things they could possibly be thinking yeah so generally speaking it's been my experience that when people are complicated and confused they tend to say no oh really yeah that makes sense to me right so if i called you on the phone and i'd say hey like let's say i dmd like three days from now hey ganny how you doing you're like i'm doing well dr k and then i said ganny i have an amazing investment opportunity for you are you interested in hearing more oh i thought you were gonna ask me out but no no that i think you would expect right yeah so i think sometimes people just say no when they don't really know what to think what do you think about that i mean i never really thought of it that way but i mean that that's a possibility like i could kind of see how that logically follows yeah because oddly enough ganny i i you know i don't know how to say this i'm just going to go ahead and say it but like i i think it sounds like she was actually kind of interested in you but much like yourself was like a confused 17 year old who didn't understand what she was feeling what do you think about that yeah i mean it seemed kind of possible but then afterwards she said she rejected me because of religion or something so i don't know i don't know what that was about but yeah i i think that it sounds like she had some so the interesting thing there is that if we really tunnel down and look at the reasons what are you hearing the reasons that she said no because she gave you two different reasons yeah what were the two reasons the two reasons is the religion and she just wasn't ready for a relationship what does that say about your attractiveness nothing what do you think about that well i mean i'm i sometimes i'm under the impression that like even if she doesn't feel ready for a relationship if she's like attracted to you that that the whoever it it is will just kind of like especially when some people are young and like aren't necessarily thinking ahead that much like i feel like if they're attracted to you they're less likely to think ahead and less likely to think oh i'm not ready for this they kind of just want to get involved in it i don't know yeah i mean do you think what percentage of the population do you think that describes well i i think it makes sense that it would describe a lot of young people you know what i mean like a lot of people who i think young people have less foresight in general sure and so what are we talking about are we talking like 90 of young people are willing to throw the future to the wind fifty percent thirty percent i don't know yeah so i mean i even if you say fifty percent it's like she's maybe there's a coin flip whether she's someone who's like has bad judgment basically yeah right i guess because what you're sort of describing to me sounds like bad judgment it's sort of like yeah i don't give a [ __ ] about the future i'm just gonna do whatever i feel like because i'm physically attracted to someone yeah i know this sounds bizarre ganny but in my experience most people are not like that yeah i mean that would make sense i think i think there's a lot of assumptions that are made about i think specifically women a lot of the times like about an attractiveness and like what women are willing to do if they're like attracted to a guy i don't know i i feel like where did those assumptions come from well i think a lot of i think a lot of the like there's a there's a lot of stuff i've read on the internet like a lot of uh that assume a lot about like i think what women are thinking or how women act or how women react to like i guess like chads or like guys that are considered like really attractive or whatever yeah so what i'm really curious about is where does that stuff come from like where like i guess like redfield the like uh redfield community or no i i understand that there are communities right but like where does the original information come from so i get that there's like a bunch of people who communicate with each other on the internet they sort of describe what female behavior is like but what i'm curious is like where's the root of this knowledge um well i think it's a lot of it's from men so i guess i guess men's perception of like how women behave i guess okay and what do you think about that well i think i i mean i think there's there's value in like i guess men who interact with a lot of women and like maybe how they their i guess their perception but at the same time i guess i guess there is a reason to believe that maybe it's not the most reliable source of information when it comes to like how women are i don't know yeah so i mean let's let's just be critical for a second so like on the one hand it makes sense right because we have observations right so men make observations about the way that women respond to them agreed yeah it makes sense and and so based on my observations like you made an observation so so you've concluded you're kind of like in soon to be in cell like if you hit 24 like you're concerned about appearance you're you think women are not attracted to you is that fair to say yeah i think that's sort of thing and and so what based on this experience like you use the word rejected yeah to describe this interaction with this woman whereas the weird thing is i'm not hearing that you were actually rejected really yeah it sounds like you asked someone out on a date who wasn't ready to be in a relationship yeah i mean they did kind of more reject me afterwards but i guess at first that too i don't think she rejected you i guess the beliefs i i had or yeah i mean so so let me give you a different interpretation ganny i'm not saying mine is right it's just there's a different way to look at the story so she is actually physically attracted to you and she's taken by surprise that like you're making small talk one second then you ask her out and then she kind of panics because like a lot of times when you're you know when you're taken aback by something you just sort of like panic and you're like oh i don't really know how to respond um or she has her own anxieties maybe she doesn't want to seem too easy for example right because they're like groups of women who also will make assumptions about men's behavior and one thing that they'll tell each other is that like you can't come across as too enthusiastic otherwise he'll use you and dump you does that make sense that women would propagate that right so then she's like she's really confused because actually she really likes ganny and she's been she she's excited but then she's like oh like my friends have told me not to say yes right away so she says or maybe she's just not ready for a relationship maybe she's 17 and she's not really sure what she wants and then she starts messaging you as you put it 24 7. now that indicates to me that like she's interested in you in some way because why would she message you all the time afterwards and i'm not sure no so what you're gonna say so so i'm not sure exactly what how you responded to those messages but then it sort of sounds like maybe she was interested in you but ultimately decided that she didn't want a relationship with someone who maybe there was some kind of religious conflict with but even then that actually implies to me that like if she's giving you that as a reason it sounds like she was really like considering pros and cons and that actually what happened is like if you cite that as a reason to turn someone down it usually means that there are actually a lot of things in the pro column like a week of deliberation followed by hey i don't think it's going to work out because of religion sounds to me to be more the result of deliberation than like you know knee-jerk you're ugly yeah what do you think about that i mean that makes sense i think it's i i think that is a different way to to look at this situation although i do kind of recall because we had a lot of mutual friends and i do recall hearing something about like how she wanted to like let me down kind of easy so i don't know if that could be part of it i'm great i'm so glad you brought that up so now we get to a really interesting question right which is like you could make the argument that you're very unattractive and she's using the religion as an excuse yeah and then actually she thinks you're just like ugly has that thought crossed your mind yeah it has many times okay so now i've got a question for you genie how do we know right like let's say let's say let's say i reject you and then i give you a reason how do you know if the reason is right or the reason is wrong um well you you would have to i guess go go off of like the person's i guess you you look at the person's behavior like their history and like how much the reason lines up with like how consistent it is with how they actually conduct themselves i guess absolutely right so you can use observation to determine if they were [ __ ] you or not right pulling your leg that makes sense i think the tricky thing is that you seem to be adopting in my mind an unfalsifiable hypothesis do you know what that means yeah no i know what that means can you explain it to us it's like a hypothesis that can't be proven wrong or that no matter what is is going to be proven right i guess and whether or not it actually is true or not sure and and do you have any sense of what could be when i say i think you're adopting a potentially unfalsifiable hypothesis do you know what i'm referring to well i guess that there's there's no way to prove that she necessarily is interested or there's no way to prove the fact that she isn't interested necessarily wrong right or that like like so she's giving you reasons and you're choosing to kind of hot like supplant those reasons with your own yeah right and i think the interesting thing is that the reasons that you're using are based on the insecurity about how you look yeah that makes sense so the funny thing here is that what i'm hearing is like your insecurity is actually what's in the driver's seat so yeah so let me put it to you this way let's say i'm an attractive dude but i don't believe i'm an attractive dude and if someone tells me hey dude you're you're pretty attractive how do i respond does it change my mind does it change my view no not really what happens what do i say in response well you can you think they're lying or they think you think they're saying that to you to make you feel better absolutely right so then like then that's kind of tricky like danny what do i do about that because no matter so some people and then what happens is like when i ask someone out on a date and they say no sorry i'm not interested in a relationship right now what do i think you think oh it's because you're not attractive or because you don't think you're attractive basically right yeah so now now how do i come out of that well you come out you come out of it thinking you're even less attractive or you come out of it like with your hypothesis proven correct or in your mind with your hypothesis proven correct yep so so i'm asking you if i'm stuck in that position how do i get out of that position how do i change i guess you could change by either changing your hypothesis or i guess making your hypothesis something that is more reasonable i don't know no but that's not going to happen right because like like we just saw that the two biggest reasons at least that i can think of that would change my hypothesis one of which is people would disagree with me and try to explain to me how i'm wrong or that i actually get evidence to the contrary from another person or not evidence but let's say they'll say something else and both of those i'm going to knock what i'm kind of curious about is like what like how can i move out of that um like move out of the i guess this is that i'm out of what again sorry move out of the idea that i'm unattractive um i don't know because that's what i've been trying to do for like a long time so it's i don't really i'm not really shy yeah i'm not sure either so let's say something else so let's say you're walking down the street and and a woman who is incredibly attractive approaches you and says hey you're kind of cute do you want to buy me dinner what do you think then well i feel like then the you you would be i would think i was attractive because like i feel like if i wasn't the girl wouldn't approach me or say that to me okay i disagree i don't think that's what you would think okay what do you think i would think i would think that this is something i i would think that you would think that there's some kind of trick here like i guess i would i would probably be kind of skeptical like i would be i would be like what's her and what are in her intentions i guess yeah right because like she sure as hell isn't gonna actually find you attractive yeah right like you're not it's not gonna change your mind like your insecurity i don't think is going to get wiped away by a perfect 10 approaching you on the street and and sort of expressing interest in you what do you think yeah probably not right so i mean this is kind of just tricky because i'm i'm not really sure like how you can you know because it sounds like even when people tell you things that are contrary or don't support your view of things that for some reason your mind swats those those reasons away like because of religion or whatnot and and you substitute it with this idea that i'm i'm unattractive yeah i think so hmm any thoughts about that or questions well i think i think the fact that i'm or the idea that i'm unattractive comes from like more than just uh i guess encounters with girls like i feel like i feel like there have been multiple encounters with with girls that have like made me think that not just that encounter with that one girl and i feel like i feel like if it's i feel like if something keeps happening over and over and over again you start to see a pattern and you start to kind of try to explain that pattern with some sort of factor or you know i completely agree so so let's just run through that let's just recap right so when you see a pattern you try to come up with a good reason for that pattern agree yeah yeah i agree now here's the really tricky thing is that i think this experience that you described you're saying is fitting the pattern whereas i think your mind is cramming it into the pattern yeah i guess like we're talking about the experience with the girl that i just mentioned yeah yeah i guess in some ways my mind will make it fit the pattern no matter what whether or not it actually does which is interesting because then the pattern that you're developing is not necessarily based in fact it's based in like your mind cramming a factual experience into a particular interpretation yeah i guess that isn't very productive way of seeing it but i i it's like uh i i can't remember i'm trying to think of a word to to describe this but it's like i guess cognitive bias or like it's like when you have you have a hypothesis and everything that you you find a way to make everything that you experience prove that correct or yep exactly so we all do that and like that's that's normal it's called a confirmation bias if if i remember correctly but you know at the same time we don't want to assume that this is just a confirmation bias right like like if you really believe the scanning there's got to be like a decent reason it's not like you started with a confirmation bias does that make sense a confirmation bias only applies if you already have a hypothesis yeah that's true so then the next question becomes yeah go ahead i feel like um oh sorry can you say that last thing again that you were saying yeah a confirmation bias only applies once you already have a hypothesis so the idea that ganny is unattractive can then be confirmed but it has to come from somewhere yeah i feel like that hypothesis comes from like multiple rejections like i saw the last game and the last guy had like 300 rejections i'm not quite there but there are being like many girls that have uh rejected me and i feel like and like i've had a girl like okay some of the rejections were like from irl girls but there have been some from like girls online and people are online are a lot harsher so i've had a girl literally say it's because of my lux there because i'm not attractive like i've had like online girls will like literally just say that like straight up they won't even like mince words can you tell us about that um well i i didn't actually ask this girl out but somebody said like somebody asked her oh would you date uh me or would you date this person and she said no i wouldn't want to date a guy who was that ugly how did you feel when you heard that well it kind of it kind of upset me a lot because i was uh i i she was like pretending to be my friend or she was talking to me like as my friend for a long time and then all of a sudden she's like oh no this guy's ugly and i was like i was kind of surprised that you would say it so like she would say it like that like i feel like even even if you don't find somebody attractive if you're their friend you wouldn't say they're ugly you would just say oh and i i i'm not personally attracted to them sounds quite hurtful yeah very hurtful what happened to that hurt in your heart well i kind of yeah i kind of internalized it and um i kind of uh i guess i really took it to heart because i was thinking that this must be what all girls think if this is what she thinks i don't know it started to become something that you believed about yourself yeah for sure so it sounds like her opinion became truth did you resent her um in some ways i resented her but in other ways i kind of it was like oh figures like because it was already lined up with my hypothesis part of me found it very easy to believe and it was very easy to digest so i just thought of it like i was very upset about it but in another way i was like go figure like of course she thinks that so it was sort of confirmed what you already knew yeah pretty much that sounds like real evidence though because we're talking about you know interpreting certain words it doesn't sound like you can interpret that a bunch of ways yeah it's pretty straightforward yeah hmm can i think for a second yeah go ahead it's interesting i actually have an alternate interpretation yeah what is that right so why do you call someone ugly well i i would say you call them because you think they're ugly but i mean i don't know incorrect if you think someone's ugly what do you call them well in many cases you'd call them attractive to make them feel better absolutely right or what you normally do is is like you'll say like yeah i'm not interested in that person yeah when do you call someone ugly uh well i guess i don't know if this is what you're getting at but maybe the person might be secretly attracted to you in some way i don't know not only secretly attracted i mean yeah that's a real stretch buddy although that can happen right so sometimes people have something called reaction formation which is that they like they denigrate that which they feel embarrassed to want or that which they cannot have yeah right so that [ __ ] happens all the time does that make sense yeah no that makes sense so what if i tossed out that if the reason that people call other people ugly is ugly is to hurt them yeah that makes sense and what if i were to say the most powerful or common reason to call someone ugly is to try to hurt some yeah i mean that seems reasonable right so all you have to do to test that hypothesis is go to any third third grade playground and you'll have people calling each other ugly all the time and what are those kids trying to do they're trying to offend the other kids or make themselves feel better absolutely so if you actually tunnel down i don't think most people like even if you're not attracted to someone i've very rarely heard or i cannot think about many cases or any cases where someone actually calls an ugly person ugly to their face unless there is an intention to hurt them yeah which is interesting yeah sorry yeah go ahead nope go for it i talked to her afterwards it was kind of weird because it's like she didn't even see what was wrong with her saying that like she she was like oh no uh i wasn't trying to like say anything and she was but she said like oh i she said i was feeling entitled like she said i feel entitled to have every girl be attracted to me and like i am like wrong for saying that i i should be insulted by somebody calling me ugly yeah man so i don't know how else to ask this question and i don't know if this is gonna make any sense because it's a [ __ ] abstract weird question is that [ __ ] about you or is it about her i well i i feel like it's about me but it's also partially about her because buddy that's about her yeah so like if she's on a social crusade to put entitled men into their place because men feel entitled to have all women be attractive to them like i don't even know where she gets that is that something that you do did you do something that she felt like she had to put you into your place because it sounds like someone else asked her hey would you go out with ganny or not yeah no i never even expressed attraction to her or said i was attracted to her at all so i don't know how to say this gainey but that has nothing to do with you that has like that has everything to do with her issues yeah i can kind of see that right like why on earth it just doesn't does does that make sense like it that doesn't make any sense to me unless like there's some context i'm not getting no that makes sense and it's just weird because people don't call like even if you're not attracted to someone you don't call them ugly yeah right i mean i've never that's pretty rare like i haven't heard somebody actually say that besides her really so it and so i mean if she's saying that you feel entitled to have all women be attracted to you like where is she getting like where is she getting that from now we got to be careful because we got to make sure there's no cognitive bias here that you're blinding yourself to something because there are some people who are like in cells or chads or i don't even know what to call them now where they do feel an entitlement towards women have you done anything that i think i do kind of have a sense of entitlement just by nature like i feel like there have been times where i've gotten pretty s like i well i felt pretty salty towards women who rejected me and i have like i i think i like one of the chat logs like if you read it it said that i don't really feel i think that like i wouldn't go to a girl and say oh you're like i'm entitled to you for you to like me but i do feel like in general like in a fair world everybody would have at least like one person that's attracted to them you know what i mean or one person that but i guess it's we don't live in a fair world so no hold on a second but you do have one person who's attracted to you you think so yeah that first girl yeah 17. yeah maybe you're right i mean she's like she sure as hell didn't call you ugly and it sounds like she was into you for like a week while she was sorting through her feelings i anyway uh yeah i mean yeah i i do hear a lot of words that don't seem to be from your mind coming out of your mouth uh explain what you mean by that like you see it's like i hear like platitudes like oh in a fair world there would at least be one person attracted to me but it's not a fair world so [ __ ] me i guess that sounds like the resentment of the internet it doesn't sound like an act like i think it resonates with you i think that perspective validates you i think that perspective makes you feel not alone and not like an idiot which someone who's insecure is gonna look for a lot of ways to not feel like an idiot and there's also a really subtle thing there which is that if it's an unfair world ganny it's not your fault you just drew the short end of the stick it just feels like even though it's not my fault it really sucks and it's and it feels kind of like therapeutic sometimes to complain about like how unfair things are like i feel like i feel like i do get something out of it you're damn right i think you get a lot out of it i think this whole community gets a lot out of it so i think this is a very confusing thing where a lot of people assume that like incels are dumb like the chads and the stacy's think that y'all are like dumb and losers and rejects and all that kind of stuff i don't think so i think that you guys are you're definitely getting something very important out of this what do you think you get out of calling yourself an insult well i think it kind of shifts blame away from you or it shifts uh it kind of i guess says something more about the world than it says about your yourself in some ways i guess yep and so then what do you get to do if it's not your fault you get to i guess uh as they would say like lie down and rot or not do anything about it necessarily like just waste time absolutely my dude and boy don't we love that if there is one thing that we love here on twitch and in the gaming community it is to lie down and do nothing right we love to [ __ ] and complain and do nothing what do you think well i see some truth in that but i i do also see some some truth in the fact that i am constantly trying to improve i think it's just about finding the discipline to do to behave like that consistently or to consistently do things to improve i'm really really happy and it gives me hope that you choose to disagree even something yeah well thank you because i gave you an excuse right i gave you the perfect excuse go ahead my dude ganny lay down and do nothing bro and what did you say uh i said that i don't want to lay down and do nothing i want to change myself and get better absolutely man and i'm behind you a hundred percent and i think that's why you came on stream today yeah and i i think you are gonna change and i'm not trying to wrap up here but i feel like it's an important point here i think you are gonna change and i don't think you're gonna be alone forever i really don't well thank you yeah i hope not i mean i like i like to think that maybe i have a future maybe i have there is a possibility for something more yeah i don't know how else to say this man like so i'm gonna sound like a real boomer here so i hate that i'm about to say this but i feel like it has to be said dude do you know how long five years is i mean it feels long to me because i'm pretty young but it no dude it's such a long time imagine just imagine how much you've changed from 14 to 19. yeah no it's crazy and five years is a really long time a lot of people don't get laid in high school or even at the age of 19. right like some people get laid after college like it just everyone's at their own pace yeah the average age to lose virginity isn't it like around 16 though like it's uh at least in the united states i don't know i would be surprised if it's that young yeah no it's like 16. and even then i would be careful about the phrase average because a mean is biased towards outliers i think the important question is what's the median age yeah because i guess the like if there's a lot of people or a fair amount that are like losing it super young or super old that like inflates the average right yep so that's why the important is the median not the mean because there could be like 13 year olds out there having sex and they're gonna really lopside things or even the another important thing would be what's the mode so what's the most common age to lose your virginity right that's the most yeah so anyway statistics fog yeah so i i'd be careful about average because i think averages can oftentimes be misleading yeah no i've been told that before and i think it makes sense i mean an average is really just a number that's made up of like other numbers really that is correct it's a real five head [ __ ] right there man well thank you um okay so let's go back can we go back to sort of the sense of like getting rejected online and resentment and entitlement um i think with the resentment yeah sure i think the resentment and and entitlement comes from i think this idea that i'm special or that i mean that i i need like validation from others to feel uh to feel important or to feel i guess uh adequate so do you think the resentment and entitlement are related to each other do they kind of yeah because my entitlement isn't being fulfilled or isn't being uh satisfied and where did you get the sense when what do you feel like you're entitled to i feel like i'm entitled to a lot a lot like i feel like i'm entitled to uh a better like a a life that's better than most people or a life that is maybe not easier but that is like um more fulfilling or that is more interesting i guess and and where do you get the idea that you're entitled to a life that's better than most people well i feel like i i feel like there is this idea that um that i'm special or that there's still something about me that's like i don't know just different from other people how long have you felt special kenny ever since i was like really young i think can you tell me about that well like i'm cons like i i took an intelligence test when i was very young and i scored like pretty well on it in certain areas like i scored high in certain areas and low in other areas but i i was like called gifted or i was given the gifted classification and then i was sent to like a special school for it which i didn't contributed that's not the only reason but i feel like that contributed to it being told that you're different or special or like sounds like you actually were special objectively yeah i was and do you feel like you've lived up to your potential definitely not i think i feel like if i'm supposed to be smart like i feel like in many ways i'm supposed to be smart because of like what the test told me but i feel like my life hasn't really lived up to that potential lived as to what it means to be smart and what does it mean to be smart well in my opinion like people who are smart usually get good grades or successful or have a lot of things going for them in life when it comes to like success and either money or grades or something that makes them stand out like some sort of status usually and do you stand out i think i stand out but for the wrong reasons so i i was that insensitive i thought that was no no no i i i understand yeah why do you stand out well i think i stand up partially because of like mental illness and partially because of uh like um i think sometimes i oh my god this i guess i could go i can go into a lot but i feel like i there are certain behaviors that i do that make me stand out just because i try to stand out like i think in some ways i've inhibited attention-seeking behavior in the past or behavior that where i want to be like at the forefront of like whatever's going on and what makes you want to be at the forefront of whatever's going on because i feel like if people acknowledge me i feel more validated and i feel more adequate i think do you remember that's a very analytical answer do you remember was there a certain kind of acknowledgement that you wanted growing up um well growing up i'm gonna be honest when i was really young i i didn't really need that much acknowledgement from my peers because i was kind of off doing my own thing so i feel like this has been a recent thing like when i was really young um for the most part i was i i got most of the validation for myself from most of the validation internally whereas now i feel like a lot of it when did that change i think it changed like late teenage years or yeah i think like late teenage years do people tell you that you haven't lived up to your potential um not necessarily not directly but i feel like there's in their indirect uh ways that people say that or whatever can you give me an example well i think it's communicated sometimes through like uh if i get a bad grade i i usually think to myself oh like uh i should i should have gotten a better grade just because of my potential or like what did i do what am i doing wrong or why am i not getting the sort of success in school that i expect why don't you think you're getting the success that you expect well i think i just have a lot going on in my life and a lot on my plate that kind of distracts me from being able to affect work effectively at school and i think it's not just um it's not just that i have a lot on my plate as far as mental health is concerned but also because i get pretty distracted like i have problems with uh focus and paying attention and i have like adhd and stuff like that can i think for a second yeah sure go ahead kenny you know what i think the biggest problem is what your confidence in what you know okay explain what you mean by that so i ask you a lot of questions and you give me a lot of answers and you give a lot of really good answers yeah right well thank you yeah it's it's kind of interesting but i think it's actually kind of a burden and it's sort of screwing you over because what i'm not hearing isn't i i'm not hearing a 19 year old who hasn't figured it out what i'm hearing is a 19 year old who's figured everything out oh my god what do you mean by that well so like i i'll i'll ask you questions right we're talking about women we're talking about being an insult we're talking about your views and how people treat you and stuff like that and you have answers for everything i get rejected i'm ugly you know the world is unfair it's not my fault answers answers answers i'm smart i was gifted i was tested i haven't lived up to my potential i'm handicapped i have adhd the world feels really like a definitive place to me when i listen to you speak like i already have an idea of like what's going on or i already haven't i think i know it's like i think i know everything yeah right it's you have way more than an idea you have piles and piles of evidence you're way past the hypothesis generation phase you're even way past the the testing phase your you conclusions have already been made does that make sense yeah no it makes sense right but at the end of the day like you know i don't mean to sound like a boomer but like you're 19. and i don't mean to say that your experience doesn't have value what i what i'm trying to say is that there are still more experiences which need to happen and the biggest concern that i have for you is that your mind is not letting evidence change your view it's letting your view change the evidence yeah that makes sense and so i'm concerned for you because i i think you know i think there are a lot of alternate hypotheses so i too theoretically was gifted i was never tested or anything so i don't really know and then i also struggled a lot i probably could have been diagnosed with adhd when i was 19 years old or younger uh certainly didn't have good grades i had like a you know like a 1.5 gpa or something after one year of college and i hadn't lived up to my potential and also had a lot of sense of entitlement i also had a lot of reaction formation personally where i hated a lot of the things that i was jealous of yeah i feel that completely right like like i can't have it so [ __ ] that [ __ ] i hate you yeah because you are everything what are some examples of that tell me like in your life like what are some examples of like things that you were jealous of or things that were like uh upsetting to you uh so i devalued school and education because i felt like i wasn't good at it and it wasn't an accurate representation of my intellect i felt like they were plebs just reading [ __ ] textbooks instead of thinking for themselves oh wow yeah i think i actually for me it's like the office that i feel like education is very important or education is like very concrete and i feel like i'm inadequate because i don't live up to the expectations of education yeah so i felt that too i think it's actually the same feeling it's one coin with two faces yeah so deep down i felt exactly the way that you did and then my ego constructed a defense against it which is that i don't have to feel bad about myself if i put them down yeah if they call me ugly i don't have to listen to them if they're the ones that rug me hmm it protects me to put other people down yeah it also helps me not take responsibility because then i get to do nothing about it right because if i'm truly enlightened and they're all plebs i don't have to listen to them i don't have to value what they say and their rejection of me which is like f's on my report card doesn't have to touch me if i devalue them and what they represent i guess that's like how i view rejection in some way or how my attitude towards women in some ways what do you mean by that like i see the rejection as like an inadequate or like as oh my god i kind of lost my train of thought here uh i i guess that's how i interpret their rejection of me in general like as and how i like i feel like i'm not good enough but in some ways i like getting i i think there's something wrong with them and not necessarily something wrong with me if that makes any sense and it's kind of confusing right because there's a part of you that thinks that and there's a part of you that clearly thinks there is something wrong with you yeah something that's wrong with you that is just so wrong with you that it's unfixable yeah even the word incel right so it's like it's not even virgin anymore it's like virgin is like someone who hasn't gotten laid yet virgins have become incels celibate is like a choice it's like something that happens you know in life it's like a long time span and somewhere along the way either like a bunch of virgins who now call themselves themselves i think it's the idea that like as you said that it's just never going to happen or that something has happened to you or things have happened to you that makes you believe that there's just nothing you can do about it yeah so what happened to you that made you feel like there's nothing you can do about i think just like constant rejection and constant uh feedback from like other people when you say constant tell me what constant rejection means well like when i was in uh university like during my first year i had this kind of idea that if i were to approach like one girl a week or if i approached a certain amount of girls that at least one of them would find me attractive so i was like i was kind of playing the numbers game but like every girl that i approached just wouldn't seem interested in either talking to me or didn't really seem interested in uh in me at all or they straight up rejected me or like said they would rather be friends or something else and what does that mean and how do you understand that well i just understand it as like it is i'm just they're just not attracted to me in general and i feel like because of how many girls have rejected me i feel like i can make a state like i could use that as like a sample size to kind of think of like what girls in general would think i think how did you talk to these women usually i just try to approach them or try to like start up a conversation or whatever and see if they were interested in talking sorry again i just got a little bit frustrated i gotta think about what's frustrating but okay can i talk at you for a little bit can i go ahead okay so the first thing is if you're approaching women don't that's not a thing i don't know what that is but like here's okay so here's what i'm gonna say first thing to understand ganny and you're allowed to disagree with any of this okay i'm just gonna rant is that cool yeah go ahead okay you ready for it bro yeah i'm ready for it issue number one people are stupid okay what that means is that like a lot of times men are stupid and women are stupid issue number two people don't know themselves these are like universal facts about humanity i don't understand what's going on inside myself and a lot of times i suspect that you don't understand what's going on inside yourself and the women that you talk to don't understand what's going on in them so like like that's the first thing so if you know like i think your your example is fantastic that you know sometimes when you ask a girl out she doesn't know what to think or she thinks shockingly more than one thing that there are reasons she is attracted to you and their reasons that she's not interested in you second thing is that if you're basing your idea that you're celibate or an incel based on approaching random women on the street and striking out over and over and over again there's a difference between your worth as a human being and the strategy that you're employing to ask women out what do you mean by that like if i'm a surgeon and i go in and start hacking at people willy-nilly and then i say oh [ __ ] i'm a terrible surgeon i will never be able to save a life there's a huge difference between the way in which i perform surgery and my capacity to perform surgery well right there's like a method here you're interpreting your value as a human being based on what sounds to me like a terrible way to approach women like you're not treating them like humans you're treating them like objects to be approached and i'm not surprised that you get rejected over and over and over again has nothing to do with the fact that you're ugly has everything to do with the fact that you're probably like like you're not it's not like a normal interaction right because people don't hit each other up on the street and then like start asking each other out that happens rarely it happens in the movies and we think that chads do that and sometimes some people can get away with that [ __ ] but that also has nothing to do with like that person being a chad it has everything to do with the fact that an interaction between you and another person ganny involves you and another person there's a whole other person there with thoughts feelings insecurities their own issues case in point lady who called you ugly because she felt like you were entitled to the attractiveness of all women i have no idea where she gets that i mean maybe you were a toxic [ __ ] and you said that to her so that's fine but it sounds like you weren't it sounds like you didn't even hit on her in any way shape or form and that you were just generally around and that she chose to call you out as ugly because she felt like you were entitled to the attractive attraction of all women i does that make sense like that has nothing to do with you man yeah that makes sense so like people are stupid and they don't know what they feel the other thing is that like there are some differences i suppose in terms of gender dynamics in terms of like when um you know how men and women treat each other and find each other attractive and stuff like that there may be differences there but i'm telling you like as a scientist the in-group variability far outweighs the between group variability that's a tricky sentence do you know what that means not really no okay so if you look at like intelligence amongst ethnicities what you'll find is that basically people from all over the world on average are the same amount of intelligent so it's not like indian people are smarter than german people or that german people are smarter than indian people the variability in intelligence within a community far outweighs the difference between communities they're really smart indian people and they're really stupid indian people they're really smart german people and really stupid indian people does that make sense yeah no it makes sense that's also true of genders so there are women who are attractive and confident and picky and [ __ ] and there are men who are attractive and confident and picky and [ __ ] they're also men who are attractive and confident and nice and there are women who are attractive and confident and nice there are women who will judge a man based on his appearance within 30 seconds and then decide to date them or not date them and there are also women who won't do that and who will get sub take some time to like note get to know people before they decide whether they want to date them or not what do you think about that yeah now that makes sense okay so here's the next thing i think that a lot of your a lot of what they could be responding to is not your looks but your insecurity about your looks what do you think about that well i feel like it is a mix of both but if you are confident in how you look i think you are more likely to get women or feel attractive okay so let me ask you something annie when you come on stream with a mask on yeah what do you think that does to your insecurity i think it gives it it gives it like uh weight or it like um i feel like it's it uh it validates it or gives it oxygen absolutely i love that last part it's not validating it gives it oxygen it helps it grow and what do you think that insecurity every time you let your insecurity get a little bit bigger and a little bit bigger what happens the next time you talk to a girl it's uh i come across as insecure or anxious yeah right and they don't know and it's it's not that they like don't they're not like they're not like knocking you off of a list permanently i think a lot of times what it'll do is it'll probably confuse women what do you think about that sorry say that last part again i think it confuses women what confuses women the combination between you approaching them random and randomly in the street and being a gigantic pile of insecurity yeah it's probably really weird to have somebody especially somebody who's anxious or we or like nervous to just randomly start talking to you out of nowhere absolutely and then if you're anxious how do you think they feel they probably feel even more anxious or like uncomfortable absolutely because we're empathic organisms so they're not i don't think they're looking down on you like you're a piece of [ __ ] and they're judging you because they're the superior sex i think they're really confused and anxious and generally speaking when someone is confused and anxious and you ask them if they want to go out with you what are they going to say probably no even if you're dr chad thundercock you think so pretty sure bro i yeah i mean i i i think like so yeah any thoughts about what i've said so far i mean it makes sense to me i've been kind of told versions of this before but i think the way you say makes it makes a bit more sense like i feel like um probably my insecurity is playing a big role in like how i'm perceived or i guess my attractiveness overall like especially if i'm randomly approaching people out of nowhere right i mean like so most of the people that that i you know most of the successful relationships that i've seen don't start with anyone approaching anyone yeah it's like usually like people get into relationships when there are unplanned repeated interactions plus attractiveness this is the biggest thing that people tend to miss out on unplanned repeated interactions is seriously the foundation of most well this has changed since online dating but like if you look at prior to online dating unplanned repeated interactions are like most of how people like find someone to date and that's why people date like their co-workers and fellow students you don't date people off the street you date your co-workers because like you go to work every day they go to work every day you guys like kind of chit chat a little bit you crack a joke they laugh they crack a joke you laugh and then like it's sort of like an organic kind of thing now online dating is a little bit different i think that certainly does sound like more of a numbers game right and people swiping right and swiping left and whatnot but even then there seems to be some amount of like organicness to the more successful relationships yeah and what i'm hearing from you is that a lot of your interactions are not organic or natural at all maybe i'm forcing it and trying like way too hard or making people feel uncomfortable because of my uh the way i'm approaching them partially too yeah i mean i certainly think so but i i encourage you to really just kind of look at yourself because i don't think i mean i you know i can understand everything that you've said i think it makes sense like i think it makes sense that you felt like you were rejected by that girl at the age of 17 but i think the really tricky thing again is that with each of those rejections the confirmation bias grows and the more you give oxygen to your insecurity the more it finds confirmation biases does that make sense yeah no it makes a lot of sense so oddly enough i think that much like the other insults that i've spoken to i think your [ __ ] is a bunch of confirmation bias piled on top of a faulty assumption okay yeah that that sort of makes sense what do you think the faulty assumption is that i'm ugly or either that you're ugly or i'd say even in a broader sense that you're you're not worth valuing damn right and we hear subtle tones of that i think ugliness is just the face of it but we hear subtle tones of it when you when you said that you used to acknowledge yourself and then at some point you started needing acknowledgement from other people and you noticed that you needed acknowledgement from other people in high school but i think that that sense of that's when you already needed acknowledgement the hunger was already there in high school so the question is where did the hunger start i think it started earlier and if i had to put my my money on a couple of things and we'd have to talk more so oftentimes these hypotheses it's not that this hypothesis has a high likelihood of being correct but this is the best that i can come up with may have something to do with your parents may have something to do with your mom's boyfriends may have something to do with your dad may have something to do with school and you feeling like you didn't live up to your potential and the more that you don't feel like you lived up to your potential the more you need other people to confirm for you that you have potential or that you have value because you don't get it from it here so you need it from outside and if you needed it from outside in high school i think you started losing that confidence in yourself probably around middle school and we even hear like a couple of tones of that right because you were interested in girls in middle school then you stopped in high school which is a little bit strange yeah so i i don't know if this is like one of those stories of like you know and we kind of heard a couple of different tones of this from your dad where it sounds like there's a part of you that feels like your dad should have done better but then you also accept blame yeah i found it hard to just blame somebody absolutely because i know people are complicated and it's hard to just it's not it's not except women you can blame them absolutely very easily yeah i guess i guess i bet i think like i mean blaming individuals like uh blaming people and likes a specific person sure so here's here's a pro tip okay so here's how you move forward you have any idea uh no no okay first thing is stop treating women as a class and start treating them as individuals okay what do you think about that i mean it's something i've been told before but i think i mean it makes sense in general yeah okay so and and some of them are going to be [ __ ] right so like you shouldn't you you don't want to go like white knight and like milady them to death that's also treating them like a class by the way it's still dehumanizing them and not treating them as individuals i'd say that's the first thing second thing is give yourself some time because i i know it can be frustrating to hear but you're young and what i mean by time and you're young is give yourself some opportunity for new experience give yourself the opportunity to change your thinking i'm not saying just like change your thinking because your thinking is wrong if it's your thinking it's your thinking there's no reason that my thinking should be better than your thinking so if there's a part of you that's still convinced that women are going to reject you because you're [ __ ] ugly then that's fine you can think that what i'm saying is that give yourself the opportunity to change your mind give yourself the opportunity for an interaction watch that thought process give you a reason to explain any interaction with a woman from this day forward you're gonna like have like you're gonna dm a woman and then she's gonna say something to you and then that part of your mind that programming that incel is gonna start giving you reasons and answers oh see she this is because i'm ugly it's like dude the lady hasn't even seen you yet but she knows i'm ugly because i have not i don't show my face on voice calls it's that unfalsifiable hypothesis kind of reasoning you see that yeah and then so give yourself the opportunity to learn or have a different kind of experience and the last thing is you know let the women come if you want it they'll come in time ganny what you should really focus on is yourself because right now i don't think you're a dude that's like worth being in a relationship with and i don't mean that like personally to make you feel bad i just don't think most 19 year olds are and give yourself like the benefit to like grow exactly as you are doing and actually you've made huge strides on that over the last couple weeks that i've gotten to know you continue working on yourself and then like you know give yourself a chance to like feel good about yourself so think about what it is that you want to accomplish and don't make it too high it's not about living up to your genius iq it's about like you know setting things setting small goals for yourself that you can actually set yourself to do and try to do them start small how do you climb a mountain ganny well i guess one step at a time absolutely and just because you're an iq and have a bunch of potential that just means you're trying to cl mount everest instead of mount kilimanjaro so don't get confused because oddly enough i think intelligence is a burden it makes your life harder not easier what do you think about that yeah i know i've seen that in my life for sure right so one of my supervisors once told me that giftedness is a special need you should treat gif treat gifted children like special needs children and generally speaking we think about special needs children as handicapped in some way but i don't think that that's a fair way to put it i think giftedness is a special need and those kids do need to be treated differently they need to be challenged differently they need to be supported differently they oftentimes get into this issue of like having way too much potential because they're told like you're a five-year-old who's told like hey you have a bunch of potential and then just imagine what that does to a five-year-old psyche how does a five-year-old live up to its potential yeah when you say yeah what does that mean i'm asking because it's a it's a lot to expect from somebody especially at such a young age and it's a lot to put on their plate like a lot but what are you even putting on their plate how do they live up to their potential i guess they have to live up i guess that to be kind of a bit more patient and not expect everything to come immediately but how does a five-year-old understand any of that [ __ ] i guess the point is the five-year-old doesn't absolutely it is impossible to live up to your potential as a five-year-old because you don't even know what that means all you know is that you have potential you have no idea how to live up to it and your parents don't even know how to move on to it but the burden gets placed on you then and your five-year-old little brain doesn't know what it's supposed to be doing all it knows it is that it's supposed to be doing more than everyone else that's all a five-year-old understands about living up to their potential and so you were placed on an impossible road at a very young age and you found yourself not walking it and so then you became insecure about yourself because you feel like a failure like you haven't lived up to your potential and then your insecurity finds something oh looks at least that's something we can wrap our head around the cosmic potential of your life is like i don't even know how to wrap your head around that and so your mind finds looks and it finds women and ah see how insecure we are now everything makes sense because we have a system we have a system to understand our insecurity we have an explanation for our weakness because the world makes sense if you're an incel and you have a bunch of people on the internet telling you things and it fits it feels good it resonates with your experience of life and that's the saddest [ __ ] thing because it's actually not true you indoctrinate yourself to believe that you're unattractive and like not valuable to women and the really sad thing is that's just not true man you seem to be a guy who like cares a lot about growing as a human being and i can guarantee you that that's what makes a good partner i know a lot of people want to just get laid and whatnot and chads and stacys and plates and all that kind of good stuff but if you're talking about actually building a relationship the hard thing about a successful relationship is that you start as two people and then you change because if you dart it started dating someone tomorrow ganymede like in five years you would be a completely different person and she would be a completely different person and then five years after that you would change again and so the most important thing i think for a healthy and successful relationship is someone who's willing to change not like become what your partner wants you to become but become what your partner needs you to be and what you need yourself to be and so give yourself the opportunity to do that yeah that makes sense i guess in some ways like if if the opportunity presents itself to be in a relationship and i'm not prepared mentally that could probably like the consequences for that could be pretty bad too absolutely so does that mean you should be in the relationship not not quite i guess not incorrect oh why is that incorrect dude man go for it if you have the opportunity to engage in a relationship yeah i guess because you still learn to get something out of it absolutely man right and at the end of the day like i'm one of these old school noobs who believes in love and i still like i have a pretty you know like i think i i'm a believer in one itis i don't think that is a bad thing so you know i definitely do think that people can get overly obsessed with one human being and sometimes that can be harmful but i don't think it's like one itis is a class of stuff is bad right love can definitely be like awesome and it can also be devastating one itis if you pick the wrong person and you're not willing to let them go or you should invest in people who are willing to invest in you and if one itis means investing i think a lot of times what it ends up meaning when they kind of talk about it in a negative way is it's essentially investing in a relationship that's that isn't reciprocated that i think is unhealthy but it all depends on the person and ganny i think if you have the opportunity for a relationship even if you're not ready i'd say give it a shot and then learn because oftentimes we're not we don't become ready before we do things i don't know how else to put that does that make sense not not quite what do you mean by that so is anyone ready to be a parent not not quite now how do you become a competent parent you have to parent you have to have experience absolutely bro so you may never be ready for a relationship don't let that stop you man yeah i guess that's the way to think about it yeah just fail magnificently you shouldn't avoid failure just fail magnificently just go for it man well you're the normal part of learning i mean if you don't fail what are you what are you gonna do right you're gonna lay on the ground and do nothing which is exactly what we love to do that's us man now we come full circle so i think we're done for today because that's it right yeah you can blame the world and do nothing or you can fail magnificently but don't get don't confuse yourself because success is not an option take success off of your plate your two options are to do nothing or fail magnificently your life will transform overnight if you internalize this idea do not attach yourself to the outcomes of your actions devote yourself to the action themselves i guess don't go into things with a specific expectation about what you want out of it but just do just do what you need to do yeah and it's okay to want something right it's okay to have an expectation but just acknowledge that that's an expectation and don't hold yourself to it questions uh i don't have any questions right now i can't think of anything right off the bat so so i have a very challenging meditation exercise for you if you want to try it okay sure okay can you turn your camera back on well i was gonna ask you to take your mask off or at least think about taking your mask off and i wanted you to notice the insecurity that arises within you what do you think about that i can take it off anyways yeah but you have to do it on camera that's the whole point oh [ __ ] well i'm sorry about that that's okay so see if you can get your phone charging that's okay okay so this this is what i want you to do again so sit up straight okay it's not the same unless you're on camera you know what i'm saying yeah i know i get i get what you're trying to go for what am i trying to go for you're trying to get me to kind of accept the way i look or not be so no good god no holy [ __ ] that's hard i'm not trying to get you to accept anything what i'm trying to get you to do sorry for cutting you off but no no no none of that none of that feel good except yourself [ __ ] what i want you to do is face your overwhelming fear yeah i guess i'm going to see if i can find because i'm going to see if i can uh try a different chord and see if it charges hold on good look at the balls on this one to a chat oh god i hate all this positivity stuff except who i am is it ugly [ __ ] embrace your ugliness no man it's it's it's not about that it's not about are you still around yeah i know i'm here but it might take a little while to charge okay take your time bro chad chad is willing to wait for the big reveal gotta keep us in suspense for education and entertainment purposes zone so here's here's the idea behind the practice so earlier uh again i'm just going to talk about you in the third person while you look for it because i don't know if you're here or not okay okay sure go ahead okay so here's the thing so ganny has a belief about himself i love i love your phrasing by the way reel 500 iq play there it gives it oxygen right so the interesting thing that i want you to do today in meditation is don't worry about like whether you're actually ugly or not that's not the point the point is if i ask you to take off the mask the insecurity is gonna like awaken awaken like like a slumbering dragon and it's gonna wake up and it's gonna be like no no no no don't do it what i want you to do and even you can fail at taking the mask off you can stop yourself from doing it that's fine too it's not really about whether you take the mask off or not but it kinda is it's about noticing that within yourself there is a force that tries to control you right and that's the force of insecurity and literally like think about what the force of insecurity is doing to you if we think about the actual physical action of taking a mask off it's nothing right it's just like i can think of another thing to do here if this takes too long i have a laptop that has a webcam on it it's kind of shitty but good enough can i troll you for a second kenny yeah sure if you're ugly is it better to have a shitty webcam or a good webcam i should you i can alright boot up your laptop bro okay so anyway well i hope you guys understand what i'm saying so we're gonna see the the feeling of insecurity so like notice that you know the the physical action of taking a mask off is just you know you just pluck out the little strings and then it's off right it's like five seconds but you can't do it you can't do it it won't let you do it right your mind won't let you do that thing she was pretending he ghosted me that's okay if ganny ghosts us so be it isn't security one out which is okay remember it's not about so it's not about saying no thank you i don't feel comfortable doing it if you're gonna fail do it magnificently and leave twitch chat waiting for like 30 minutes while you never show up jabaited right yeah so did you guys catch that don't put it in the this guy who's this guy he caught it somebody caught it the insecurity dragon faced itself don't put it in the thumbnail did you guys catch that so you guys see how it like it's so quick so what you guys got to do is is like look at yourself right not if you're ugly though okay now we're gonna do this okay so what i want you to do um is so close your eyes yanny close your eyes and sit up straight and i want you to just notice yourself notice the thoughts that go through your head oh there we go yep you're doing good just close your eyes how do you feel right now talk to me slightly uncomfortable at all okay good so tell me what is the discomfort feel like just a bit nervous a little bit anxious okay where do you feel that anxiety physically in your body uh mainly in my back and uh in my shoulders okay good eyes closed okay good okay so now i want you to think about taking the mini skull gimme and i want you as i if i as i tell you to think about it notice what happens within yourself tell me what happens i start to get kind of nervous i think okay where do you feel that nervousness uh in my back mainly okay do you have particular thoughts um nothing that i can pick out specifically okay okay that's that's okay so now so now i i want you to just notice that like there are going to be forces within you that are concerned right so you asked us before it sounds like you're thinking about taking your mask off so that's fine but you mentioned don't put it in the thumbnail so that's a good example yeah that's just like uh yeah tell us about it it's an anonymity thing mainly okay that's fine so so by the way if you want to stay anonymous then you can do that don't i don't want i don't want to pressure you into not being anonymous if you i feel like this is a good example of depriving the insecurity of oxygen and that's why i'm asking you to do this does that is that distinction clear yeah no it makes sense okay do you want to try to deprive your insecurity of oxygen yeah sure okay so then take the mascot eyes closed okay and now how do you feel i feel a little bit exposed now okay good what is the feeling of exposed look feel like uh well i feel kind of uh tense and i don't i know it sounds weird but kind of naked like i feel like there's nothing to cover my uh shame yes good okay so now let let's just look at that for a second can you look at it with me again are you with me buddy did i open my eyes no no no no no no don't open your eyes but just can you listen to the words that i'm saying or does that sense of being exposed overwhelm you no i can listen so now let me ask you something why does someone okay need to not show like when we think about exposing exposing involves seeing what uh well it depends what you're exposing right right but like when we use the word expose we're sort of talking about something unsavory right that's the presumption yeah like if if i you know if i if i go get some flowers from outside i don't expose them in a vase right i display them yeah but displaying and exposing are both showing you with me yeah i know i'm with you so what is it that we expose like it's something unsavory yeah or something that you don't want people don't want to see so wait wait you don't want people to see or people don't want to see something that peop that i that i think both like you don't want people to see in something very good right because now notice this comes from you ganny you don't know what people want to see but you are afraid that if they see it then what's going to happen that they're gonna judge me they're gonna think badly poorly me like like look down on me okay and what what and what judgments are they gonna have for you uh they're they're probably gonna think i'm ugly like that's what i think people are gonna think okay so now do you feel like people are thinking no looking no peeking at twitch chat okay sorry do you feel ugly kind of yeah okay so now i want you to focus on your breath for a second so notice that there's a feeling of ugliness like what the [ __ ] is that even like ugliness is not yeah it's hard to explain it's weird right because like we think about ugliness as a physical attribute correct yeah but like it's not it's a feeling what holds you back is a feeling it's not a truth does that make sense yeah i know it makes sense okay so just notice that feeling of ugliness lynn like tell me a little bit about it uh well it's it's i mean it's obviously a negative feeling and i feel i i don't know i kind of feel it in my gut right now like i feel like i'm making a mistake i don't know good okay good right so this is it's it's a protective mechanism something in your body is warning yeah do you see that so now i'm going to ask you a couple questions ganny what has happened in the past when you have shown yourself to other people i was about to say exposed but that would be weird negative negative things to say about it and when was the first time you felt this way uh the first time i felt this way was um [Music] i can't even remember like probably not too long ago we're not not not too long probably like a little while ago okay this feeling of being exposed and fear of judgment that's a feeling that's new to you uh um no not really okay how long is has that feeling been familiar for like a few years now okay and so would it be fair to say i'm gonna try to put words to it okay you let me know if i'm not trying to lead you but you let me know if i'm right or wrong okay are you afraid of what other people will see you as definitely yeah okay how long have you been ashamed of what's inside like what's i feel like i'm more ashamed of what's outside than what's inside honestly okay how long have you been ashamed of it uh i think for like a few years now okay so now i want you to pause for a second and think about this you've already exposed yourself it's done you've taken your mask off what do you think about that i'm not sure if i'm gonna regret this but i mean i already did it there's nothing i can do about it now yeah do you regret it right now a little bit okay good tell me about that feeling of regret um i don't know i just feel uh i i feel like like like now kind of like uh it's like i've opened paint doors box and i don't know what's gonna happen as a result of me showing my face here like right now in this moment good do you know so i want you to just take a snapshot of how you feel is there any feeling besides the pandora's box uh well part of me feels like at least at least out there like at least now i don't have to hide or i'm not hiding to the same extent anymore yep so i want you to take a snapshot of how you feel right now do you know what we call how you feel right now there's a word for this emotion can you guess what it is what is that should we ask twitch chat or security nope incorrect just tell me this is what we call courage oh really yeah how does courage feel well when you put it like courage i feel a little bit better like i feel like i'm at least making a good decision rather than a bad one uh it could be a bad decision right pandora's box and all that yeah here's the crazy yeah here's the crazy thing about courage courage doesn't feel good we make it sound like a good emotion yeah but it's not a good emotion courage is awful what do you think about that yeah no it makes sense yeah and so now i want you to try to appreciate yourself for a moment right that like you did it and you decided to take a chance and it could end up terribly i don't i don't think it's going to really i don't think it is danny yeah but facing the fear is actually the hardest part right it it's it's the insecurity that holds us back from acting that's the hard part we're controlled by like these feelings on the inside ugliness is not even a thing there's no there's no like it's not a thing you're just i'm just talking to a guy on stream if we had never had this conversation and we talked about what your favorite video game was for an hour and a half you would be the same exact person twitch wouldn't know anything about you being afraid that you were ugly it's all coming from you man it's not that the world judges you in a particular way it's not that some woman sure people can call you ugly from time to time like that one particular woman called you ugly but that's because she's got her own social justice [ __ ] that is going on or whatever yeah right you are what you are nothing can change that and the world can judge you but any kind of judgment if you give into it is going to be damaging and here's the crazy thing the white world judged you for being brilliant and what did that do to you it it i mean it kind of the correct word is [ __ ] you it [ __ ] you yeah and that's such a but who wouldn't want to be judged is brilliant or beautiful all judgment [ __ ] you that's what judgment does big truth that buddha discovered all judgment is bad you are what you are ganny whether you're ugly or you're attractive or whatever you have no idea it's not my place to say what i can say is that you're courageous what i can say is that you haven't figured everything out yet and thank god for that because if you had figured everything out then your conclusions mean that your life would suck all it takes is courage courage and an open mind and give yourself the chance to change okay how do you feel right now uh a little bit nervous i don't know good see i'm i'm telling you all these really inspiring words and what's happening inside you well i feel a little bit better about it but it's still i don't know i'm gonna need sometimes a few days to think about what just happened fantastic that's what we want you to do but what's happening inside you see that little thing it's like an animal yeah i can say as much as dr k inspiring [ __ ] as i want to that animal is still there do you see how it has a life of its own yeah but that's not you man that's it can you see that it is separate from you kind of yeah okay so now i want you to try something one last thing put the mask back on okay i don't know if this is on straight so that doesn't matter is that the beast talking again now the mask is on do you feel safe yeah a little bit yeah okay i feel like it's already been exposed so it's like what can i do now exactly but still so despite the fact that that what can you do now you still feel a little bit safer now take it off again do you feel feel re-exposed yeah i do it's weird right but even then like nothing has changed people have seen your face already it doesn't make any sense it's just this thing inside you that has a life of its own it's not logical it's not true in any way shape or form does that make sense it's just like it like mask is on oh i feel better mask is off again oh i feel worse again like what the [ __ ] you've had it off for the last five minutes like what difference does it make that insecurity doesn't care it's not logical and it'll find whatever reasons it can to justify its existence and convince you otherwise so practice not listening to it practice courage and then one day you'll be ready to talk to a woman mm-hmm thank you any last thoughts or questions no not that i can think what are you feeling now i see you smiling uh i don't know how i feel honestly it's i'm gonna say i have to take some time to think about it beautiful right so like just that's awesome man because what you used to feel was nervousness and now you're saying i'm not sure which is exactly what we want for you dude is to not know for certainty what your life holds the more you say i need to think about it and i'm going to figure it out the better your life is going to be so that is the right answer and i think we're done for today what are you doing okay thank you yeah i think it's this is a good place to end it all right man listen kenny all right i really wish you all the best man i i think that you know like just keep walking with your walking and don't let yourself you know it's okay to be held back by your insecurities but for only so long and keep doing what you're doing and don't give up on the rest of humanity because we're not going to give up on you well thank you that feels better to hear all right take care man okay take care bye okay gg ganymede right oh my goodness ganny the legend be careful chat be careful of the expectations that you put upon ganny's back

Channel: HealthyGamerGG

Views: 513,889

Keywords: mental health, drk, dr kanojia, healthygamergg, healthy gamer gg, twitch, psychiatrist, incel, feminism, incel podcast, incel debate, incel vs simp, incel dating coach, i'm an incel ask me anything, incel logic, misogyny, dr. k vs incel, what makes an incel?, incels, how to deal with rejection, how to start a relationship, approaching girls, how to approach girls, how to approach women, how to get a girlfriend, am i an incel, what's an incel, incel 4chan

Id: 7-23_WfZ4Lk

Length: 111min 26sec (6686 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 01 2020