How Is Someone Saved? (Mormons vs Christians)

[Music] repentance is what you said right how do you go how does that happen what's the process by which someone said dead sinner has raised life in Jesus it's finished Colonel I'm just giving you in the no one here we don't want to say because I agree it's repentance but it says in 2nd Timothy 2:24 that God grants repentance it's a gift the call of the gospel is that Jesus Christ is God some of the flesh he's the eternal God he's Yahweh is the Messiah he lived righteously died for sinners and rose again from the dead and the command to every one man woman and child is to repent Italy's the gospel that's the message he doesn't say wait for faith or wait for me to open your eyes he says come to me and he grants that and that people sure yeah that message the message of the justification by faith how you and I are made righteous before God it's not my faith together it's purely by the grace of God so that no one is most and I've given you guys several texts and demonstrate that it's only by faith it says in Romans chapter 4 that God justifies the ungodly person so he justifies the ungodly he chases down rebels right to the one who works his wages you guys have you guys have a job yeah ok so what do you get when you have a job at the end of the two-week period but you get a paycheck right no if you went into your boss and you said to your boss thank you so much for that gift that you've given me he would be like wait a second that's not a gift you work to earn that paycheck right it's not a gift you earn that Romans chapter 4 says [Music] the wages of sin is death right I'm sorry that's Romans chapter 3 so Romans chapter 4 right to the one who works his wages what he's earned you guys get awake right what he's earned it's not credit as a gift it's not credited as a gift right as what is due but as suits do now but is the important part you guys gotta hear this last part but to the one who does not work but believes on him who justifies the ungodly his faith is credited as righteousness well back in Romans in Romans 2:28 verse 12 each man will be judged according to their works Romans chapter 22 the Romans doesn't have 20 no no sorry revelations I'm Dyslexic so Revelation is 2012 and then at the end it says we judged out of those things according to their works so if we're judged according to our works why wouldn't say we were judged according to our faith we were judged according to the things that we work we live work us through what's the texture pointing to revelation 20:12 I would say that the works that we demonstrated are obviously the fruit right so Jesus says no bad tree can produce good fruit and vice versa right so the works that we do in the flesh though the works of our hands the worst that we do they're a product of whether our hearts been changed or not now obviously I'd want to look at that first two and see maybe exactly what you're what you're referring to has that passed and revelations money I know John so mine is there's a there's a book of life in the text and those who are in the book of life are given eternal life and those who are judged according to their works death and Hades receives receives death and Hades spits up and they go into the lake of fire judged by their works anybody who isn't in Christ has to answer to God for all of their unrighteousness their sins but for those who were in Christ you have what Paul says in Philippians 3 Philippians 3 the Apostle Paul says about his life he says according to the law I was a Pharisee he says according to the law blameless and he says he says and I he says but all of this I count as loss all my good deeds all my works all being circumsized of the tribe of Benjamin a Pharisee he says I counted all his lost lost skubalon which is actually a pretty thick strong word in the Greek it actually is the strong it's essentially a way of saying crap the worst side of that right he's the counter dollz skubalon he says and I want to be found in him not having a righteousness of my own derived from the law but the one that comes from God through faith in Jesus he said that through faith in Christ you receive a righteousness that's not your own he didn't want his good deeds or his righteousness to even be before the throne of God he wanted the one that came as a gift in Christ through faith alone that's what Paul says all believers have is Christ's righteousness and I think that's the big distinction between the Jesus and the gospel of this church the true gospel is that we're saying that the righteousness that we all stand before God in is only Christ and it's a gift we don't stand before God with our quote unquote right righteousness because all's that our righteousness is as filthy rags because we're because God is so holy since we are scarlet they'll be at widest no yes there's forgiveness and God yes but we can't do it by ourselves right so that the the problem is is that the way the Bible says the grace it says you were dead in your sins and trespasses Ephesians chapter two you were dead in your sins and trespasses and he says but God made you alive that's something God did God made you alive by grace you've been saved so the difference is is this church is teaching you that if you cooperate with God His grace and do enough good deeds of righteousness that God will accept you the Bible says you're dead in your sins and trespasses dead not sick dead God by His grace must make you alive and then he says this by grace you've been saved through faith and that the Grace in the faith not of yourselves it's the gift of God not according to works lest any man should boast not according to works if it was up to us and our righteousness in any way even with grace then we have something to boast in but Paul says but not before God he said go ahead if you look in our scriptures they've been accounts of people who have boasted there would be think it's around 3rd Nephi towards the end of Alma it says how the Nephites who used to be the righteous ones they were boasting of their actions and because of them the ones who were boasted in the first company of Christ I mean when there Christ died that's nice they're all wiped boasters were liked and it was people who were lowly and meek and heart who were saved mm-hmm so if we you're right if we do boast we won't be saved well no but the context of Paul there I got here what you're saying but believe me I hear the context I understand what you're saying but Paul's context in Ephesians 2 is that by grace you've been saved through faith and that the Grace and the faith not of yourselves it's the gift of God not according to works lest any man should boast he says essentially that if you're saying that your your works in any way have something to do with that then you have something to boast about so Bible says the grace and the faith are gifts of God this church is teaching you that through obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel you can be saved okay that's a different gospel so do you believe that Jesus would invite us to be perfect God commands us to be perfect in order to try to become my Christ that requires action we can't just wish and have faith that we should become like Christ we have to use action and I think that's where we're disagreeing is that action we both agree that action isn't enough but it's where it's why it's a good thing that is enough because that's where Jesus Christ grace comes so that's that's the point the difference is how you just put that my friend you said actions and then there's grace right because that's what Nephi says by grace you've been saved after all you can do the Bible teaches it's the grace of God that brings people to life that gives them faith that gives them repentance that saves them the actions come later here's one misconception that's often spread amongst more ya know Christian in history believes that through faith just saying you believe saves you it's true faith in Christ that saves you and if you've been given faith by God to trust in Christ that means you have a new nature and the good works flow from that every Christian for all of these 2000 years has always believed that true faith in Christ produces good works but those works have nothing to do with my justification before God they're only a fruit of it and I don't want God to even look at them as a basis of my righteousness I only want Christ I only want his life I only want his death for me and that's the difference we're gonna stand before God with our life of sin our lust our addiction to pornography our lies our thefts our envy our strife our hatred we're gonna stand before God with our sin and unrighteousness or we're gonna stand before God with the perfect righteousness which do you want ones available through faith alone apart from any works and one is something that we all have sinned so which do you want a general conference bike where would you know when it was no cuz I was longing this year okay well while ago okay but it was my Peter ecuador and he said he said you will try your best to be perfect and you will fail and that is good because then we need him without without us being imperfect and without us failing we wouldn't need Christ and we wouldn't need our actions the only difference is yeah I hear what you're saying the only difference is the way the Bible puts it God is so holy that all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags to God all of your good attempts to come to God are like nothing and Mormonism and I don't mean this to be offensive so just take it as a loving critique Mormonism teaches that I need to put some in and then then Jesus work avails for me right it's Jesus and then me the Bible says that we are corrupt we are hostile towards God enemies rebels before God we are dead in our sins and trespasses that we have nothing because God is holy that's right yes and the Bible says there's no way to bridge that gulf through a mixture of faith and works in a matter of fact you know I would only point you to one thing I know it's gonna get crazy here in just sick right I just point you to one thing guys just read this tonight and I'll commit to read something you tell me to read something I'll just point you to one thing the only has six chapters the book of Galatians don't read it with any anybody near you don't read it with even me trying to influence how you influence you just read Galatians one through six Paul addresses specifically the kind of gospel that you're saying that it's grace plus my works he says that if you choose that route you're under the curse of the law to fulfill all of it and he says Christ has become of no effect to you no effect to you whosoever of you attempts to be justified by the law you've fallen from grace now just forgive me for a second he didn't say that to people who believed they had to earn the way to heaven he said that to people who believed yeah that's God's grace yes it's Jesus but I've got to keep this one part of the law this one part of the law to be justified before God he says anybody teaching that he says I hope they cut their penis off so Galatians 6 5 he really says that hope they he says he says these guys that want to circumcise you to be justified they say grace faith and Jesus just do circumcision to be right with God he says I hope they emasculate themselves yes so I think to go on at that point I said well one of the names Jesus Christ is given in the Bible is mediator that's right and to be a mediator it's a bridge again that's right very good yes agree you can't have half a bridge right that's right right you need another half so he provides we may even only give one without there you go you just said it as much but he will bridge you just set it you just you just said it I want to say this to you with humility everything you just said was a false gospel the fact that you think that you even have half a bridge shows that you know the fact that you think you have an inch of a bridge a quarter of a bridge you're righteousnesses are as filthy rags you you don't have a bridge you're on the side of the you're on the side of the gulf dead bones you need God's grace to put life in you to give you a new heart you need Jesus to give you a righteousness and to cover that way towards God all on his own and that's only a gift saying we're dead what's good for spiritually Ephesians well as many Ephesians chapter 2 we're dead the dead in your sins and trespasses brings us up he brings us in life by grace you've been saved so to put this in a time line sense of things okay because this is this is how we view this before everything we're down he brings us to life and we build this this is this woman we believe we build as much as we can he built the rest right yeah we believe the same thing but in a more flowing matter of no we'd say in a way and I love you you believe in a completely false gospel if you believe that God gives me some and then I cooperate and I add righteousness it's God's Bible says it's you're dead and God makes you alive together with him by grace you've been saved you don't know I just told you that's a gospel of complete grace that has nothing to do with you okay so nothing all we have to do you're saying all we have to do is show up turn to Christ and live in a trust in him participation ribbon is trut well and that's another issue is when the fact that you believe you can come God's one day God says before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me you'll never make it so he was thinking doesn't Jesus Christ one one wants to give everything that he has well just answer that I'll answer your question but just I gave you the verse he's before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me that's defy I'm playing with a Bible on ok all right [Music] I'm the beginning of the end I am the Alpha and the Omega right so that implies that he was here before anything and he will be here after you but you realize you can't answer a text from Isaiah 43 with Nephi okay then I'll just cut out I just like the Alpha know Megamart sound okay he's been cuz I know what I say it says I am the beginning in the end can be upset first in the last ya agree that God has created this universe God is the creator of everything everything includes this universe yeah so ever the order to create this university would have to be here before we agree with that being here after he would have to create it right yunano that's not nothing that's a non-sequitur it's not necessarily logically necessary for God to have to be here philosophically speaking after so we believe is that since he's the creator of this universe to us but you know you're not answering the verse I gave you though God says before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me that's long before Joseph came along he says I'm the first and the last besides me there is no God he says no yeah exactly telling these people who were idolaters worshipping false gods you're to worship no other God before me I don't want any false gods in my sight because people are idolaters but Joseph taught you you can become a god one day when God says there's none before none after it's it's blasphemous to think that you can become a god one day the Bible says from eternity into eternity you are God Joseph denied that Joseph taught that God has not been gone from all eternity last one is to say that all we have to do is show up tonight and say that I said believe in Christ Christ to show up so doesn't matter if I killed if I'm healing but when I get to the end because Hitler had a firm belief in Christ you're already misrepresenting he did not have a firm commitment of Christ that's that's a that's fictitious she realized that in history Hitler denied that by the Bible's Christ specifically said that he did he wanted a different version of Christ he no he did not believe in Christ he said that he didn't believe in the biblical Christ he was crew he was actually wanted a different version of Jesus that would fit his socialist ideas different Christ so so yeah yeah so the question is how do we go how do we know the truth and I would say the Word of God is where we go to for the answer Jesus says thy Word is truth Jesus says thy Word is truth James didn't you realize that James did not teach and James one that you can come to God for an answer to a question and that he would answer you like I'm gonna ask God this question and he's going to pull me into the wouldst answer my question I'll give you this I'll give you I'll give you this real fast if I said to you hey I'm gonna pray about something right now about whether I should go steal that cop car right now is that something I need to pray about because we know God has spoken already right thou shalt not steal I don't need to pray about whether I should steal something murder some someone or or lie or anything else because the God's already spoken so when someone says to me pray about Joseph Smith whether it's a prophet of God see how you feel I know what Joseph said about God just like I know that God says do not steal and that's why I don't go to pray about stealing that car God said before me there was no God for now to show that be after me Joseph says there were and you can become one one day Joseph lied but I just demonstrated to you that he contradicted God what if you demonstrated I didn't say though the text that has been translated to four languages so far possibly is acting wrong so do you know the difference between transmission and translation okay so the Old Testaments transmitted to us in Hebrew primarily and then Septuagint the Greek translation the New Testament is written in Greek now if you don't like an English translation today study Koine Greek and then read the original Greek text we have it so when someone says the Bible has been translated and corrupted you do realize we can go back to the Greek text we have it we have over 5,700 manuscript pieces and copy of copies of the Greek text we have over 19,000 translations from the Greek into other languages you've been lied to they told you that the Bible has been translated and then retranslated it's it they've lied to you I can I can show you exactly what Jesus said in in the Greek text from the original Greek language we have it they told you it's missing many plain and precious parts but Jesus says God says in his word the grass withers the flower fades the word of our God stands forever this comes down to this you seem like a very devoted and and strong-minded person this comes down to whether you're going to believe Jesus or Joseph do this I'm Jeff that's a way to get the way to get a hold of me read this and tear it apart refute me yeah you you seem like a committed person get it my name is Jeff contact me here I'll take you all out to lunch I'll listen to you I would care about you I'll buy you hot chocolate okay we'll hang out whatever but and I'll let you guys go through that that text there and show me where it's wrong okay okay and I promise I'll listen okay Alma 7:00 you got I will read almost 7:00 I promise Galatians is what you guys read okay Galatians yeah he says it hardcore yeah he did say it right but he did say it all right I'm Jeff what's your name again Casey Casey nice to meet you it's great talking yeah thank you so much for talking to us I really appreciate it well your heads were so much better than the other people I don't even know what his name was I remember but it was you you guys know I had a little conversation all right ma'am I'm glad you're blessed all right look forward to talking to you guys okay almost 7:00 I'll read it tonight

Channel: Apologia Studios

Views: 99,037

Rating: 4.8969674 out of 5

Keywords: jeff durbin, apologia church, mormonism vs christianity, mormon debate, mormonism debunked, mormonism refuted, mormonism exposed, mormonism documentary, mormon temple secret footage, mormon tabernacle choir, black preacher vs mormon missionairies, the gospel for mormons, book of mormon, i am a mormon, mormon temple, christian vs mormon, christian apologist, william lane craig question, james white debate, south park mormon episode

Id: bNy5yUUJqTE

Length: 22min 1sec (1321 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 30 2018