- What's up, good humans. - This was one of our
most requested episodes. So we've heard you. - When I'm first trying
to, forgive myself, I was like, "okay, I wiped another human being
off the face of the earth. Like how do I forgive myself? How do I ever come back from this?" (upbeat music swells) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) - [Host] My relationships have suffered since being convicted. Three. Two. One. Go. - Asian families, like
we're super conservative. We don't talk about our
feelings or anything like that, and it's just like, "did
you do your homework"? "Okay, good". My first visit in prison where like, we were actually in person, was like, the first time my mom's ever hugged me in life, you know?
- [Richie] Wow. It was just like, okay, you're doing good. I just feel really fulfilled
by my relationships after going through that,
- [Sonny] Yeah, right. and really like, when you're
going through your worst, that's when either like, - [Sonny] Yeah, oh yeah.
- You reach out and build on top of those relationships, or like, you just let
it falter and you just, shut everybody out. - Like Ping said, like we're Asians, we never tell each other we love her. - Yeah. - I remember for me it was in prison that was the first time I was able to tell my mom that I love her. My relationship with
my family, my friends, is a lot more meaningful and strong today than what it was. - During time when I came to prison a lot of my family members was older. Seeing me, you know, they favorite nephew, they favorite grandchild, go through this. They were stressing out, crying. I had some have a heart
attack in front of me, a seizure, you know, that bothered me. A lot of 'em passed on. Never got a chance to see
me walk up out of prison. - It's like a good and bad with prison because like, it's like a
metamorphosis that you go through because of this situation. You have to sit in whatever you've done but at the same time you get to, you know, transform yourself
into something better. - [Host] I had fears
about reentering society. Three. Two. One. Go. - I've been out a little over two weeks, and the process has been a little easier than what I thought it was going to be. I'm just ready to get
to get the ball rolling. I'm 43. I don't have no time to be playing, so I'm kind of like on it right now and I know it's gonna be struggles. I know it's gonna be challenges, but I'm prepared for that too. - [Host] How long were you in? - Over 25 years? - I wasn't fearful just
because like I had a set date. I went in, I was married so the plan was like we're
gonna do this, do this, do this. So I was just fortunate that
I did have people around me, and even in prison I had people
around me that were like, you know, you can get out and do this. It was always options. I never felt helpless. - I was terrified of getting outta prison. I went in at 19 and got out at 33. I know exactly all my friends who are now aerospace engineers
and doctors and everything. I'm like, I have no work experience, I have nothing to put on my resume, I have no job, you know, prospects. What if I fail and my family has to
continue taking care of me? It scared the crap out of me. More so than staying in prison. I knew that prison messed me up. Like, mentally like,
just day in and day out of them telling you that you have no value and you're nothing. I knew that that was like, in my brain. - But I think you've done the
most with that fear though. Look what you've done now
since you've been home. So, I think you've done good for yourself. - Thank you. - So we got good outlook. - [Host] The punishment I received fit the crime I committed. Three. Two. One. Go. - It was six of us on my case and they gave us all six the same charge. You just gotta take full responsibility. This is what they say you guilty of. This is what your charges is. Even though I didn't pull the trigger, even though I didn't
do all the other things the other people did. It was like, you know, all
six of us go commit a crime. But all six of us didn't participate, but all of us got charged the same thing. - I was a vengeful person years ago and I was a retaliative individual, and I ended my best friend's
life and I received life, and it was absolutely fair, but it wasn't fair for their family because I can still see my family. So I agree. - [Host] I have a hard
time forgiving myself. Three. Two. One. Go. - It did take me a second to forgive myself, cause
I think for any of us, like, we're hardest on ourselves. You know, we do something wrong, and everybody else will forgive us but we don't forgive ourselves. So it took me a while but I have owning it and
then forgiven myself on that, so that's why I'm kind
of just somewhat agree. - For me it was hard just based on like, like my father passed
when I was in prison. For years I had dreams about him. That's what made it hard
for me to like get over it. But I think once I kind of like faced it and actually grieved that loss, that's when I was able
to actually move forward. - To watch my mom drive
out every single weekend and camp out in front
of the prison overnight. Cause she would come in and sit there at visiting and she'd be so exhausted
she'd just fall asleep. When I was 20, I was
like, "mom, just go home, like, just go home and go to sleep". But I didn't realize that she did that because she loved me that much. Now knowing that she went
through all of that for me, it's tough to forgive yourself for that. - Oh yeah, oh yeah. - When I first trying to forgive myself, I was like, "okay, I
wiped another human being off the face of the earth. Like how do I forgive myself? How do I ever come back from this?" But I figured if I sit
there and hold onto that, there's no moving forward. So if I really feel bad and
if I wanna forgive myself, then how can I make sure
there's no more victims? How can I make sure that I can make a better life for myself and other people around me? - [Host] The justice system is unfair. Three. Two. One. Go. - Like for me it goes
down to like history. Basically the first sheriff's
badge was the slave patrol. So coming down that line
from the slave patrol, to the chain gang, to mass incarceration. So like the justice system, I somewhat agree that it's like, 'cause it was created to do what it does, it's doing what it's supposed to. It was it made for me or by me. So it does it's function
as far as I'm concerned. - The justice system is, you know, based on how the prosecutor can bolster his success rate in court. 'cause that's how they get
into private practice, right? It's sort of like our political system. They're not gonna go for,
you know, soft on crime laws because they don't get
in elected into the next, you know term. Same thing with the prosecutors. They're not going to, you know, try a case where they're not so sure about or they're gonna like stack
their case against you because they wanna
bolster their success rate so that they can get into private practice and make even more money. - You're right, because two people with the exact same charge depends whether they have
public defender or paid lawyer, different outcomes.
- Public defender. Public defender, paid lawyer, county that you got arrested at, state you got arrested at.
- [Sonny] Race. Like, I mean you go across the border and it's completely.
- And race too. - You can do from like two
years to a life sentence on any charge - Besides those that are innocent. And I do agree with a
lot of things he said. When this first came about, I used to tell some of my friends, "oh it's my attorney's
fault I got 25 to life". "oh it's my upbringing
when I got 25 to life". But I realize that laws were in place and justice system to protect society and our own families as well. I didn't put the gun
in my attorney's hand, I didn't put the gun in the
judge's hand or the jury. I'm the one that put myself in that. And when I got the 25 to life, I understood and I accepted it. - I totally respect your viewpoint. I just feel like it's two separate issues. - Yeah, okay.
- You know, like I take responsibility for it. I still don't think
the game's fair, right? Like they lock us up away for years, don't provide any way for us
to really better ourselves. And on your release
date, here's 200 bucks, get outta here don't get in trouble again. Like, I have no idea how to find a job. I have no idea how to cope. I have no idea how to process, you know my mental state
and my emotional state. I was lucky enough to have support but there are a lot of
people we know like, there are paroling.
- Homeless. - Under a bridge.
- Yeah. - You know, it's like what
is the system doing for them? - [Host] I never thought
I would live to this age. Three. Two. One. Go. (all laughing)
- Like I'm going to be quiet. I'm like a nerd over here. I mean I had all those fears. My family's like, "just
keep your head down". Everyone's like, "don't
say what you're in for". And I'm like, I'm in for fraud, you know? And I just kept my head low. I'm like, that's it. So yeah, I basically
knew I was coming home, but it was an adventure. - A lot of my friends died as teenagers. 16, 17 years old. The area I grew up in, you know, it was, you know, you
didn't even live to see 21. I have no friends that I grew up with playing peewee league, all that. They're all gone. So my mother looked at this as this is what saved me. - My very first cellmate was a lifer, you know, who like, murdered
his wife in cold blood, and we didn't get along, and you know, one night he
put Citricide in my food, like industrial cleaner in my food, and like I caught him, I'm like, well what am
I supposed to do now? And you know, and I talked to the guys, they're like, you gotta handle it. You know, I was just a kid, you know. And there were definitely times where I didn't think I
was gonna make it out. - That's the biggest
fear is getting stabbed for somebody else messing up and then, or the cops just shooting and
then missing or hitting us. - Yeah.
- [Quan] So yeah. - [Host] My past doesn't
dictate who I am today. Three. Two. One. Go. - You know, you have a fucking voice, and you're not everything
the guards tell you you are, you're not everything the
prosecutor said you are, you're not everything that you know, the wardens and the
system says you are right. Like, the way they
treated us, like animals, like just throwing us on the wall, and like, strip searches, and you know, coming into your cell and like, tearing up all your stuff. Like that's not who we are. - Well, I love the person I am today. I have the more appreciation
for the smaller things. - I truly believe that every
human being's worth salvaging. And I say that all the time. So that's why like, regardless
of our mistakes in the past or the choices we made. That's why I believe like,
I'm not dictated by my past. - [Host] Woohoo.
(everyone applauds) - [Anthony] God bless you man. - [Richie] Appreciate
everything you said too. - Congratulations. - Congrats.
- Wow, thank you man. - God bless you my man. Man, like we have such
different experiences, and the fact that we come
from very different places, I think it was just very
enlightening to watch. - One more thing. You guys, we're actually
doing an episode with cops, but we're having trouble finding cops. So Kendra, email Kendra if
you know any cops or officers who'd love to be in an episode, 'cause we want to humanize cops
and tell their stories too. - And if you are not a cop, but you'd like to be in an episode also fill out the casting form below. We're looking for just more amazing, - All types. - Good humans to be part of this. So we'd love to hear from you. - Absolutely, as always, like, subscribe, leave a comment below,
follow us on Instagram and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music fades)
