Debunking Your Abuser's Lies with Dr. David E Clarke | Episode 541 | Awesome Marriage Podcast

[Music] foreign [Music] thank you so much for joining us today on those marriage podcast uh you've been on before I consider you a great friend and thank you for spending time with us today well the feeling is mutual Kim thanks for helping me out you're very welcome so this new book 20 lives that keep you with your abuser I love the book I love the style of it I think it's so user friendly I guess I can use that word with it it's easy to to see what lie you believe and then what scripture says and then some great stories and and just I think it's very very helpful so let's go back to just the whole idea of codependency and how do couples become codependent how codependents are trained they're trained usually from their family of origin to become a codependent if it's a woman let's say uh it could be a man but it's a woman she sees her mom being a co-dependent to her abusive dad her narcissistic father boom that's 18 years of training if not a bit more okay this is how I'm not living in somebody else's house this is how it works and so she learns her role especially if the mom never leaves and just keeps doing it this is how life is going to work out it's how you fake it here's how you give your whole life up now also in the Christian Community as you know Kim many churches not all but many churches also train women to be codependents yeah it's from the pulpit it's from Sunday school it's it's the word of God used in certain ways to indicate that you're to submit no matter what you're to stay no matter what uh and uh you know they keep loving him okay he'll change the burdens put on the wife not on the husband that's not what the Bible teaches but that's what they learn so it's just kind of reinforced and then finally I think you know women are are more sensitive they're nurturers by Nature they they they don't want to get a divorce they they and so they're just naturally they're bent is to be codependent and to give I mean every part of themselves to this guy and they're pretty sure that's going to change them it's not going to not this time no no and I I think that's so interesting you talk about the family of origin because really if you grow up with that that you're normal I mean that's your textbook right of what it is to be a wife in a marriage and so uh you can see how that just transfers from one generation to another until somebody says whoa this this isn't right you know and I think too I don't you said that about some Churches and I had a lady that she went to her pastor talked for her she had visible bruises and the pastor said you stay in there you're supposed to serve him all this kind of stuff and honestly I told her I said get out of that church you need to be in a church where you're loved for God's word is given to you like it is supposed to be like God meant it to be and God didn't mean for you to be abused and so um I don't know where those churches get there I hope there's very few of them if any I hope they're not anymore because but when someone has grown up in a codependent home and then your pastor reinforces that that's really hard isn't it it is it's like a done deal where do I turn my own people I can't turn to can't turn to him or his people because they're on his side and now my pastor and pastors words carry a lot of weight absolutely I've taught many women even this past week yeah find a new pastor on your way out of the relationship you may not leave right now but find a pastor that gets it um yeah he doesn't care about you and he's never gonna get it a guy like that yeah and I and there are pastors that get it and there are pastors that will walk through you and probably put you with someone else to Mentor you or someone that's been through those things I mean yeah reach out don't feel like you're stuck there so okay so how does codependency begin to play out what's it look like in a marriage and it looks like one person let's say it's the wife whoever the codependent is giving up literally everything about her in in the hopes of changing her spouse and it really becomes an addiction because it just because it takes on a life of its own I'm going to give up who I am my identity what I think what I feel my hopes my dreams pretty much everything compromising every time to to love this man and hopefully getting to change into the person I wanted to be even if you're married to a decent guy and frankly in this context you're not even with a decent guy God doesn't tell you to do that one flesh is not one person it is two distinct personalities of changing and growing for the sake of the relationship but we still have two individuals yes the codependent gives everything up and and that's why you have no voice you have nothing and your own kids lose respect and love for you because you don't you don't make a difference it's all about the abuser well that's that's what it looks like and it's ugly it's just it's sad is what it is I I I bet you brought up about the kids I've heard that from a couple of people it may more than that even in the last year of um my kids don't respect me anymore and I think that that I think sometimes we forget what we are then modeling what what in this instance a woman is modeling for her kids and and again how does that affect the kids how does that affect does it affect a boy or and a girl differently when they see their mom in that situation I think it does the boy of course they both lose respect but the girl is more likely to model after the mom and become like her and so date and marry abusers and narcissists the boy loses all respect for the mom he's identified with Dad because Dad is everything when you're a boy and growing up so and so he'll treat the mom badly and he will then become an abuser he'll start abusing his mother and this isn't the usual a teenager with a bad attitude oh no this is far beyond that I am downgrading you and of course the dad will not defend the mom sure if I tried that with my mother oh my dad would have taken my head off that was never allowed oh this is different and so he's going to become an abuser he's going to marry a woman and abuse her that's exactly what happens and these ladies that stay too long it's the saddest thing in the world Kim you say that you just mentioned it I hear it almost every day I of course my my I'm still married or maybe I finally laugh at my kids have no respect for me they sided with the abuser they can't believe it's happened can't they see no no he has in addition to the modeling and the lack of respect we've talked about the guy has spent decades in very subtle ways turning them against you absolutely and it's just kind of a yeah it is it just kind of brainwashing them day after day until the till they see it that way and so yeah you um one thing I thought of when you were saying that about when you uh when a woman continues to stay in it seems like when that codependency is there I don't see the resentment towards this husband that I see in a woman who is not codependent and her husband's just trying to maybe you know control her a little bit and and she digs her feet in and says no I can't do this do you see that that there's no the resentment's not there because they are trying to do what they think they're supposed to do yeah it's true it's not there you would think it would be yeah so my job is to develop some resentment some healthy I've had enough resentment and it's not easy to do there's they've created their own reality and and there's in such denial that they don't get it yeah I'm not I don't think they're being mistreated or if they do it's like well this is just the way it is and I'm gonna it's like hope help Springs Eternal they'll sell it'll come up tomorrow yeah it will but it's gonna be the same dumb day but they keep living hoping dreaming no no leave him I gotta get them ready to leave still not going to change he might if you leave but it's not about him anymore I say it's about you and your kids and boy it's a tough sell it's a tough sell but I'm selling it well and I I think you know I agree I think women they do so much they want it to work and of course the classic abuser he he gives him a little Hope just kind of dangles it out there he does and then he pulls it away yeah but it but I think for a woman once like you said once her marriage to work it's hard for her to make that break right oh it is these ladies and I hear this from almost every lady I talk to Dr Clark I don't want maybe I don't want a divorce I say I know you don't I don't want that either but the reality is that's probably what's going to happen they know that that's where we're headed because they know these ladies aren't dumb in fact they're bright they know he's not going to change to face that reality or very likely then okay then I have to act this way and then I'm gonna have to leave and they don't want to do that so stay becomes the better option even though they're being destroyed yeah just day by day over and over and then they're told by the pastor who's got it wrong or 80s and family members well God's going to honor you he's going to bless you your glorify him by staying and you you know you did your best for 40 years I say no you didn't God is Not glorified by that he still loves you you're going to heaven right he doesn't want you to suffer like that he does not it's not his plan no and that's not a marriage if you even look at you know God's definition of marriage that template doesn't fit over what we're talking about not stuffing close not even close yeah so the codependency what happens if it's not unchecked where is it going to go it is damaged Kim as you know across the board every lady I talk to has has physical problems autoimmune problems heart issues kidney issues my back's killing me Richard ruptured discs had a lady just today gastrointestinal problems she's a workout person she is a fitness instructor it's killing her so physical damage emotional damage self-esteem gone uh you know self-respect gone confidence shattered identity forget it uh we have spiritual issues there's almost always a tension with God why God are you allowing this to which I say God's telling you to get out but but there's an issue with God and then of course we always mentioned that the problem with kids they'll be turned against you they'll identify with the abuser he usually has more money and he's prepared them that way and they're identifying with him it's just one bad thing after the other so there's no there's nothing good about staying with an abuser at nothing yeah I I I really don't think a lot but I've when you start mentioning some of the physical things that go on that kind of stress just just wears and tears at you I mean it's just you know uh and I think sometimes if you don't your opinion on this that women don't realize that's where it's coming from it's like yeah my stomach is killing me every day but they don't think it's because you're an abusive relationship they don't they don't make that connection that's our job no I direct and they're always shocked really yeah again that's denial where else is it coming from right you like your job and other your kids and all no it's him but see again if I if they make that connection that's the first step towards uh oh I'm living with interviews or I'm going to have to do something about this and women of course women this is a joke in our family when I get a cold it's a federal case you know call the call the Coast Guard call the hospital I mean I'm just pathetic and Sandy when she could have a leg torn off and she wouldn't complain and she'd just keep going so women are just used to it of course I saw childbirth four times oh my goodness now I can't even let me take that you can take a lot well this is like childbirth every minute of the day that's why PTSD they all have PTSD because it's like a combat zone every dumb day yeah it really is isn't it I mean and you just the the uncertainty that comes along with that feeling like you got to walk on eggshells uh and I had more than women tell tell me that they are doing fine until they hear that garage door go up in the evening and they know he's home and then the stomach knots or something they begin to get that physical symptom because they don't know what's coming in the door right he could be nice if he's having a nice day or he could not be or he could start off nice but it turns on a dime yeah and no matter what you do you can't stop it right I mean you can have the house like Immaculate the kids can all be sitting there perfect every you know everything's like his favorite dinner and then at times it didn't make a difference it doesn't you know what life isn't perfect but it's all about is that nothing about you and the kids anyway it's all about him the kind of day he had and he's gonna it's like kicking the dog he's gonna take it out on you and it's going to be your fault which is ridiculous it's his dumb fault right and you'll never be good enough in his eyes no he's not going to have a way of thinking if it is my father they'll embrace it if it's my fault then I can change and if I make these changes then then it'll be okay then he'll change it's got nothing to do with that you could spend 40 years trying beating yourself to death against a wall don't don't do that don't do it yeah absolutely so we'll get a lot of questions from spouses who've been taught it's biblical say in their marriage no matter what let's talk a Biblical framework for getting safe from an abusive situation in marriage how do we how do we help them get past that and of course great Point again the Bible is critically important I wouldn't recommend anything neither would you that wasn't solidly biblical absolutely this isn't taught in churches but we see the verses Matthew 18 Romans 16 First Corinthians 5 that indicate you get away from you leave an unrepentant sinner after giving the opportunity to confront and to change which in our cases has been years in some cases Decades of opportunities he's never going to change it could care less okay you leave that person that's what those verses teach it happens to be your people make an exception well that doesn't mean the spouse no no there's no caveats in those verses okay it's your spouse even more reason to get away because he does more damage than the guy down the street or your crazy mother or somebody else one of your kids so that we have those verses then we have the verses the three exceptions for divorce in the Bible which the church doesn't like to talk about for fear that if I mention those well that's going to encourage people to get divorced that's baloney none of us want people to get divorced really no we have adultery Matthew 19 we have First Corinthians 7 15 abandonment by a non-Christian we have chronic never going to stop abuse also taught in First Corinthians 7 15 other places in the Bible so if those verses are for divorce and they are those are exceptions extraordinary exceptions well they're also then for separation which is as far as I go yeah yeah these are obviously a reason to separate then we have God puts in the Bible which he didn't have to do the story of Abigail and David I mean right there and in that context Abigail had zero rights a woman in that area totally depended on the husband absolutely he could have taken a sword and cut her head off and nobody would have done a thing to him in their in their household or in the community there were no laws against that I'm the man and yet God got hurt out of that situation that is a powerful statement that you don't have to take this absolutely absolutely yeah and I I think sometimes um okay if you're working with someone and they're coming from you know it's biblical to stay in no matter what how do you help them make that transition to see what you just talked about that there is other because they probably never even if they've read those verses in the past they probably haven't sunk in because of of what they've been taught and what they've been done yeah they've got to the first step is really to yeah read those verses and meditate on them because yeah they've never seen it in that class never been taught that way to them they've been told just the opposite it doesn't matter what he does number one it's your fault number two you have to submit number three you have to stay uh and then that that's the right thing to do no no it's not God there are acceptances in scripture you're living one this isn't a decent guy who's got a few quirks that we're not talking about that forget it this is a pattern he's destroying you and your kids so I I have to there's an adjustment there's a whole mind shift that they have to go through and I'm convinced I say you make this a matter of prayer and meditation God will speak to you he always speaks through his word anyway you'll find ways maybe he's using me maybe a close friend he will he will get their attention but it takes several months using for them to really go okay I'm I'm realizing this and then they'll say but I'm not strong enough to leave and all the other lies I cover in the 20 lies book yeah but this yeah but that yeah but the other my job is to shoot every one of those down biblically uh as well as my personal uh you know professional experience and then then they start okay then then they they start a process of getting strong enough to leave and that takes months okay well let's start absolutely take that first step yeah you know when you're singing I was just thinking of the scripture that says the truth will set you free if if the scriptures that that people have been using to keep you in bondage you don't feel free but these scriptures that you're talking about and will set us free absolutely and that's what God wants when I tell them look whether they know it or not there's anyone that tells an abused person to stay and uses scripture inappropriately is also emotionally abusing you they're shocked I say yeah they are you're in a burning car you're with your husband and your kids you're all burning to death and and these people are outside the car telling you to stay in the dumb car somehow it's your fault it's on fire and you have to stay no no God says get get your kids and get out if the idiot behind the wheel your abuser wants to stay God love him he can stay okay that that seems to get their attention this is a very serious situation yeah I'm not just unhappy in my marriage lots of folks are unhappy in their marriage okay get marriage counseling two reasonable people not that hard this is a situation where no no you pretty much have to leave it let's um we talked about it on uh other times that you know I've been together but let's for somebody didn't listen to those let's define what abuse is in a marriage what what are we looking at because like you said uh everybody has problems everybody's got to have some conflict go to counseling you work things out so what's different how does someone know if they are an abusive situation it is a pattern it's not just here and there had a bad day once a month it is a never-ending pattern of narcissistic disrespectful and harmful destructive Behavior exhibited by one person in an intimate relationship bottom line the simplest definition is it's one person slowly destroying another person it is it is Hardcore it is as serious as it gets far so far beyond your basic marital problems you can't even believe it yeah absolutely yeah yeah and you just you know what I see I I tell the lady this um a couple of weeks ago I've been working with her and her husband and and he's one of those guys that when it came to the bottom line he really did do some work and he is doing better but I told her you look different than you did she looked different when she made the decision that I'm going to separate and he's got to get some help but but over time the strength she's gained her self-esteem coming back her seeing herself through God's eyes instead of an abuser's eyes all and so now that he has worked on things and he and I really feel like God said when it really was God and he just he humbled himself before God and God has changed him I think she's in a position to walk with him and to build a healthy marriage now for a year ago she wasn't third you know she just need to be separated and to have that time to heal and it takes time doesn't it boy it does it's a great Point Kim the the codependent needs time to heal that the guy's got a lot of work to do too obviously but the co-dependent has her own work to do heal from the wounds figure out your codependency where does it come from get strong get yourself back oh yeah so ideally it's two separate parallel tracks now if the codependent does her work and the abuser doesn't so be it game over end of story God will direct you I'll say and it could be divorce but we until that point yeah you've got to get healthy and the 20 lies book is really before leaving and applying the enough is enough book let's get you strong step by step let's get you strong absolutely and it's just it just changes someone's whole countenance as they come out of that I don't think I don't think women realize you know I've always until when sometime at 35 if you ran into somebody that was a college friend or roommate or something they wouldn't recognize you now yeah because you you your whole countenance has changed with the abuse that you've been under yeah we should have we should actually take photos when they first get kind of weird but when they first come into the office and then when they yeah when they because it yeah it's like night and day it is Happy wow yeah I think that's a good idea because they wouldn't understand why we're taking that photo day one but they're getting to understand that maybe a year down the road when you show them that photo and a picture of them now and they see the changes that that God has made because they were willing with God's help to make that first step right and and of course it's thrilling for us as therapists to see that and God is even more thrilled because he loves them more than we could ever love them and he wants he wants them to be happy to be joyful to be at peace absolutely yeah absolutely so let's get inside of a spouse who's belief Mind of a spouse he's believing the lives that keep them with the abuser you've mentioned denial um what all goes into that well it is uh what what the code event it has to do of course she doesn't want to divorce and so she if she's made that decision and it's supported by her church and what she thinks and what she thinks the Bible teaches okay she's made the decision I have to stay right so everything then flows from that and so now she creates her own reality in order to cope and to manage this situation and that's where denial comes in so heavy this this is an abuse he's not a bad man you know he had a bad childhood I think hey today he was better he took him to the park he talked to me he wanted sex after but anyway but he was nice to me and uh okay and so she'll look at the smallest things or or this is kind of sad you've heard this kid was late at times well today he wasn't abusive to me he didn't tear me down so even neutral becomes hey I think we're gonna make it yeah you know what that's just not accurate thinking so I have them I know you do too tell me the story tell me the last week tell me the last two weeks and we start highlighting the events wow that's abusive really another time that's abusive that's abusive here's why it's abusive what was your reaction well no troller I blame myself and so this it's all about them you know and what they have to do different well that's just not accurate I have a wife who's very tough and strong we have a relationship like this much like my mother Sandy calls me on everything if I say something I shouldn't have said or she's upset about something or she has a need she she just tells me and I go okay yeah I'll change these guys don't do that no they can't they can't talk to the guy about anything of importance if it's going to be a disagreement or a conflict he'll bite your head off or ignore her for two weeks and so that's out so I have to kind of do it my all myself hoping that and then she'll think well because I was nice to him these last couple days or I'm doing my best that's why he had a nice day that's got nothing to do with it there's no connection foreign ball and dirt balls act like dirt balls yeah yeah so I've got a question with what you said there when when someone's been abused and and so then the guy is being in her words nicer but you still see abuse there is it does that be the worst part thing that the guy does to her does that become her standard for abuse and then she minimizes the other things that you and I would both see as abuse that's exactly right okay yeah two years ago one year ago we slapped me across the face or he embarrassed me at that Thanksgiving dinner some awful humiliating God that's the standard and so yeah anything below that and that's part of the the denial well that wasn't as bad that wasn't as bad oh anybody could do this no no no no no no no and of course he doesn't tell even her friends typically about what's really happening because they might tell her was that are you kidding me this guy's he's nasty because the wife wants to protect the husband make him look good doesn't want to be embarrassed I say tell your friends start telling the truth people you can trust that's a way to break break out of that denial somebody else telling me this is a problem that something's wrong with that guy I think something's wrong with her and of course the selfish seems so destroyed it's got to be me she thinks I'm just not a good enough I'm not pretty enough I'm not smart enough I I'm not good with the housekeeping I'm not a I've had these ladies tell me it's just tragic I'm a dull sort of a person that's what she's being told I'm uninteresting to which I say why did the marry you if you're that dull that's a lie and you're not Dull well I know you I spent a few sessions with you it's just awful come on like that Sandy could I have a lot of quirks and I talk a lot and say things that shouldn't be said Sandy could could take me apart if she wanted to but she loves me so she was doesn't do that right I mean come on that there's no point in that well yeah because the longer we live with someone we know our vulnerabilities we know our weaknesses but but being a good husband a good wife you don't use that against your spouse you use that as information to to help them or come alongside them and what the abuser does he finds those weaknesses and he just camps on him doesn't he oh yeah and they're sneaky smart they'll use they don't make stuff up they will do that but they use weaknesses or some mistakes you are actually made and then they'll just pounce sometimes means sometimes subtle but the message is yeah it's really your fault there's something wrong with you yeah yeah and they know exactly what they're doing and it's entertaining for the narcissist he loves driving somebody crazy and having that kind of control he said normal people would never want that yeah there's a payoff for him in there there's a payoff oh big time and he loves winning the kids over because that that's a win and he can tell the people hey uh she says I'm abusive but look at the kid or three or four kids they're on my side yeah so that must mean she's abusive not me oh my goodness awful monstrous it does it just ah gets me upset and because because there's these precious women and and that that you see that have just been so taken advantage of and it's mostly women right I mean sometimes we'll see the man but most of what you and I see is gonna be is gonna be the woman who's who's and I think a lot of that is don't you think because God made our wives as nurtures and lovers and they care for us and they they fight for their marriages they don't like you said they don't want divorce and and I don't think as guys we're not wired that way that doesn't mean a guy can't be abused but it seems like it's mainly with the wife oh I think you're right women are are by Nature other focused Men by Nature are self-focused even a good guy I'm I'm more thinking about me and my career and how Sandy can help me I mean that's wrong and now we've shift of course we work together now which is awesome and we got to the point in our marriage where Sandy said probably mid 30s Dave I've worked really hard raising the kids and helping you with your career I think it's my turn I said what do you mean my turn I'm doing this for you and so she started to do she's been wonderful with the camping Ministry she was on the board she served she started to do stuff for her but she's got her own unique personality and it was awesome and I benefit so yeah that's so good but I had to be led to the water because I wasn't getting it I thought well she's happy just kind of helping me well the difference is you responded for narcissistic never respond he'd figure out some way to turn that back around and make her feel quite guilty for even thinking that exactly and it is about me and don't forget it yeah no come on well so we can we've talked if you've mentioned a few of the excuses that you hear or any others that that are pretty common that people might be able to identify with all of the big ones is that we've kind of touched on this gut yeah I'm convinced God wants me to say yeah women more charismatic ladies will often say to me God told me to stay which I say no he didn't and they're shocked I don't like God told me fill in the blank anyway frankly but if you can't show me in the Bible where he told you to to stay with an abusive person I'm not interested in that so that's That's a classic I gotta I gotta thump that one it's better for the kids if I stay with women moms seem to think that's true intact family even if he's awful that's better than leaving him and having two separate households no it's not you are far better off with half the time with your kids teaching them loving them showing them God's way then when you're when when one house where that guy is just having a reign of terror and and the things you're trying to teach them biblically are just washed out of course there's a submission thing I I have to submit to him no you don't you don't submit to sin or one of the classics is I can't and this could be true now I I have no money I have no job I'm homeschooling I I'm not able to financially leave him to which I say yeah of course not today how about six months from now how about a year from now how about getting training getting a war chest looking at jobs this is America why are millions of immigrants flooding in illegally to our country because this is the land of opportunity absolutely if they can do it well you certain can certainly do it not easily but they convince themselves I can of course they're thinking I'm dumb I have no skills nobody would hire me that's not true I said you're bright you're attractive you you know you love the Lord that's none of that you have abilities see they've lost all that come on you can so make it absolutely I mean God Gave You abilities and he gave you you know and I think it's it's them being able to see through that because you're right they don't see that they have any value at all why would somebody hire me I'm so beaten down he's convinced them of that yeah they need to get out of that let's I'll say look don't even look at how I look at you and I'm telling you truthfully because I'm a straight shooter let's look how how God sees you and it's clear as a bell in the womb before you even made your appearance he was creating you to be who you are specifically with the ultimate detail they've they've forgotten that I know and and it's so sad so let's go kind of to the other side of that one of your quotes I love in the book I want the best for you and your children the best is not continuing to live in Christian could have been a prison the best is learning how to reclaim your identity your worth in Christ and your freedom so have you seen these women reclaim their freedom after they break out of this codependency and abuse just to give some hope there with those women that are people are listening today and are going oh my gosh I think they're talking about me but I all the things that Dr Clark is saying that are scary I feel every one of them I see that kid you have too and it's the most wonderful thing in the world for a therapist to see to see a woman flower and get her freedom and get her voice back and her identity and her health and proof and her kids improve oh it's the most beautiful thing so yeah there is a hundred percent hope for the for the abused woman absolutely I can't say that for your husband it doesn't look good I'll be honest um I've had three narcissists in 35 years change okay that's not good it does happen it'll only happen if you leave him so I don't know he might be in that category but I know for you yet your life is going to open up absolutely see what they they try to tie it to the house yeah but I can't be happy without him I say you kidding me you're miserable with him count up the Happy Days with him there's not many so I got that has to be severed this is about you now he'll have his chance there and that's biblical but yeah when I see a woman come out of it oh you get the email you get the phone call and they're happy and they're thankful and we both thank God and it's beautiful absolutely and and I think you know so people will know I think we've talked around a little bit but we're not talking about divorcing we're talking about separating we're talking about making a statement to him that this has got to stop if you're in a relationship with me it's about her getting healthy and then see what he does and right and if he works on it and really thinks but it okay so a woman makes that step she's separated husband says I do want this work I'm going to get help how does she know if it's real her change as you mean his changes I'm sorry if he comes back oh yeah good point and I add a case just recently I call it fake repentance which I also cover in the book you you need to make sure because these guys are mad they jerk the rug on you a million times he'll he knows just what to say to you well I do love Jesus if I came to Jesus last week and I'm going to church and I'm talking to the pastor and here's what I'm going to do for you I haven't been affectionate I haven't so he'll give you a list of the very things you want your heart's desire and women tend to jump to it and go oh he's got it to which I respond those are just words God could care less God says I don't care about your words I care about your action yeah and so you make him and it's going to be seven or eight months minimum of you backing off healing yourself and then watching him does he go to therapy once a week does he admit his faults does he tell you all the sins he hasn't told you he's done does he correct the character assassination with all those he's bad-mouthed you to does he truly walk with the Lord Celebrate Recovery Group I mean on and on figure out the money there's a lot of things you'll see in the 20 lies book he's got to do and enough is enough too before you could ever even think well maybe but the ladies let him right back into the house and they go right back with him if they're still living together and then two weeks later he jerks the rug absolutely and and they're devastated all over again don't play that game make him earn it now the right guy would spend eight nine months that's why I say the best way to do is to put him in the corner and say I'm done I don't care what you do whatever I'm done with you I want you to believe it I don't care next Billy Graham don't care I say the right guy will never accept that and he'll work like a dog with the Lord's help to win you back the wrong guy won't he'll say okay your fault I tried this stuff you're you're no you're not reasonable see because he doesn't get it he has no idea the pain he's caused you absolutely yeah and I think it's you know uh we can all say the words but it's got to be backed up with with our actions and I think was it Virginia cetera that says seven percent of of communications and our actual words it's the body language it's the tone of voice and somebody can kind of fake that for a while I I I've asked women to pray and say if he's changed that you can see Jesus Anymore I mean you've got to see a heart change you don't see somebody that says all these words that you've wanted to hear for how many years I get that but you've got to see them live it you've got to stay you've got to stay apart until you know that something has changed oh I agree let's make sure I like that you need to see and to see Jesus and and just stay the course oh yeah and and let's see so there are cases where it does happen it's just in my experience not very not very often yeah no and it's such a you know with this couple I was talking about oh my gosh what a celebration that has been yeah to get to that point and uh and it just I love it that's terrific stuff it it does happen but only when the woman holds the line and and then you just observe him because repentance is always consistent it never varies and the repentant person will not bring up anything about you it will be one of your faults it'll be it's all my fault here's what I did wrong and he'll stick to that yeah absolutely absolutely and then you've got a chance to come together and build something yeah right when he really gets it they're good for both of you oh this is so good uh last question for you since we've talked about your bride some what is it you're loving about your marriage today man we are in a very good spot we've raised the kids they're three are married one is still single they all got solid jobs they we have we have one grandchild coming so we're empty nesters Kim and it's wonderful we work together we have time in the evenings watch our special shows Sandy makes food if I treat her like a queen she cooks for me it works out great as I clean up that's okay one day she just stopped She always cleaned up too because I like my dad my dad never cleaned up a day in his life and my mom seemed happy Sandy said well she never said anything just one day she stopped cleaning up I realized oh that's my job and that's fair yeah she's gonna make the food so we can go out to eat which I love to do and uh we sneak off to Saint Augustine which is a little place to go I can chase it around the house I mean it's just good I couldn't do that with all those crazy kids around here no no you know so life is good God is good to us absolutely well it sounds like Sandy's a great lady and it's just interesting as you've talked about her a lot during this podcast of how our spouse's compliment is how God put somebody in our lives um that we've learned from a girl from you know I've got a wife very much like Sandy she doesn't let me get by with nothing I am so thankful for that I mean you bugged the heck out of me early in marriage but now I see the value of it and and and that I'm better because of that and that's what I tell couples you got to figure out how to work through things we're talking about abuse that's kind of a different situation but the normal things of life and marriage you work through that so you can get to that emptiness stage that you and I are both in life right now and yeah and that we love it and love that what's that thing of beauty it really is wives nothing worse for the abused wife and the empty nest there's no buffer I can't focus on the kids at all it's just me and him oh terrible and like you said don't think you're doing your kids a favor by staying in it till they get out of high school you're not no no not a good idea you're not at all this has been great the book is 20 lies that keep you with your abuser you can and what if people want to find you David who's the best place for him to find you this is the website and you can only get that book from me because it's self-published so David E Clark Clark with it a David E Clark phd.com just that easy everything's there everything's there and other things that David has done a lot of great books a lot of great resources uh thank you for spending time thanks for being on the podcast thing for your friendship I appreciate it a lot well thanks Kim I'm a big fan of yours is that just because you have me on that's part of it but I like it too I like you too thank you

Channel: Awesome Marriage

Views: 20,578

Keywords: christian marriage, how to have a good marriage, good marriage, christian, marriage advice, marriage help, marriage tips, god, god's, awesome marriage, dr. kim kimberling, christian podcast, marriage podcast, christian marriage podcast, podcast, abuse, narcissist, narcissistic abuse, marriage tips and advice, marriage tips christian, dr. david clarke, dr david clarke, abusive husband, abusive marriage, marriage counselor, david e clarke phd, marriage counseling, david clark

Id: Q_5eyZJRjPs

Length: 41min 13sec (2473 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 31 2023