Can AMD beat NVIDIA?

every now and then something small turns into something big and that kind of happened on twitter last night which sort of got me um thinking and which is why you're going to get a lot of content about this gpu battle that's about to take place someone by the name of jeremy suller says there's no way our dna 2 gets close to rtx 3000 performance if these numbers are real which then prompted a response by scott herkelman himself which is the cvp and general manager of radeon brand inside amd and all he said was hmm which also led to a quote retweet from hardware canucks saying that hmm equals the surrender flag the corsair vengeance a4100 offers a professional streaming setup out of the box with the included elgato 4k60 pro video capture card capable of recording 4k hdr10 gameplay at 60fps the vengeance a4100 series features high performance ryzen 7 3000 series processors and nvidia rtx 20 series video card with plenty of performance to play today's top titles with incredible detail and frame rates to see the complete spec list and to learn more click the link in the description below it's funny i replied to all of that with dead on arrival question mark of course i'm just trying to stir that pot a little bit get some discussion going i don't know if it's dead on arrival none of us do but it's kind of funny because the general responses are interesting we if we look at the comments on 30 series phil and i probably spent an hour reading comments to my video to steve's video which by the way the irony of steve's video by far had the most salty comments than like even ours we we looked on my twitter we looked on uh my well my instagram didn't really have anything but we looked at the comments in my video for an hour we could not find a single toxic comment which was very very odd because normally this discussion brings out the biggest of amd fanboys and the biggest of nvidia fanboys fighting each other like that that well as it's like a big fight insert battle that you like here it was like the episode 2 droid battle where they're all 50 people but it just got us really kind of excited the fact that it seems like the silent majority and the true enthusiasts that have both sides of their brain functioning are capable of having a discussion on this which is actually great we are seeing nvidia be the hero right now before the card has even come out and obviously we need to see the card we need to see if the up to 1.9 x performance and the the power consumption improvements and and the efficiency and all that you know really come to pass where come to pass we need to see if they actually are going to be real and you know what i have no reasons to believe that they're not nvidia is not really known for over hyping that's something the other brand was kind of known for in the past but this time i don't think that's the case because we've got nothing to go on with big navi other than what we know about the consoles which we also know as rd and a2 and extremely shaved down so we got a lot to talk about today um just some food for thought don't forget frasier did also knock out muhammad ali it happened but people will talk about that but we're gonna talk about it today so let's talk about the the actual front line of this battle and that's gonna be price point that's price point and price to performance now 30 series came out with two fronts if you will to this battle that no one was really expecting we knew it was gonna be faster than our tx20 series it had to be but when 20 series came out it touted a new perform a new a new way of doing games which is real-time ray tracing making rasterization a thing in the past and giving you actual real-time traced lighting shadows uh all sorts of things dlss lots of functionality which people were like that's dumb nobody cares about that fast forward two years everyone is praising nvidia which is so odd to see because normally they're the villain they're the bad guys in the story most of the time and when it comes to the general public and it's the fact that you are getting way more than the artificially limited 20 to 25 percent improvement that we're expected to see family on family improvements this time i feel like they lifted that artificial limit let it push as far out as it could in terms of performance but kept the price relatively the same if anything they kept it essentially cheaper if you do performance per dollar that's because the 30 70 being a 2080 ti replacement in terms of performance at 499 is where this discussion really is going to take place that's kind of the area we're going to talk about here because the reason is if you look at the actual performance numbers on paper of what the consoles are going to have rd and a2 giving you terraflops in the 2080 ti range are actually slightly beyond it gives us a lot of hope of what the full-size discrete graphics card is going to give us for performance now it's important to remember teraflops does not equal gaming performance if that were the case the radeon 7 which we're going to go into that little history lesson now the radeon 7 on paper should have absolutely decimated anything nvidia had in terms of the 2080 ti and all that because it was a compute monster the problem is compute does not convert to gaming performance and and that's because of decisions that amd made back in like 2013 2014 before they came out with the fiji based fury cards being the first cards to hbm or high bandwidth memory which is basically just 3d stacked memory from samsung hynex or amd um giving you much higher memory bandwidth the problem is their core design didn't leverage it the core was still too slow for the memory to be the bottleneck therefore they put a lot of r d and money into a well what appeared to be too soon junior for graphics card uh performance which led them down the path of then vega 56 and vegas 64. and then ultimately the radeon 7 which was bested by the rdna1 architecture of the 5700 xt in games almost across the board there's a few games of course where the radeon 7 was able to beat it but when you've got a 700 700 to 800 graphics card like the radeon 7 being beat by a 400 5700 xt that shows they really put a lot of their eggs in the wrong basket which also is why there was a complete turnover in leadership at radeon which is why now you have scott basically doing what raja was doing which is what raja is now doing for intel which is why no one should really be concerned about intel's gpus being a threat to anybody but the thing i want to talk about here is did did nvidia potentially have some sort of insider tips or knowledge on where to place their cards in terms of pricing where to line up their cards in terms of performance by removing what appears to be those artificial limitations and you know i say artificial junsun himself back when the like p100 cards first came out on stage legitimately said they do limit how far they allow their advancements to go per family in order to be successful in execution repeatedly once after another after another you have to be thoughtful about the amount of risk you take and the reason for that isn't because you don't want to take one giant leap and the reason for that is because by taking a lot of leaps over a long period of time it is the best way to stand on the shoulder of giants there's a rhyme and a reason as to the launches and where the performance is and how they stagger that so i feel like this time they just let it go much farther ahead than expected because they're trying to put nails in the coffin of amd before amd even launches i said this in my previous video where i feel like nvidia literally knocked out the opponent during the weigh-in [Applause] and a lot of people were reading into scott herkleman is that everybody's name scott scott's tweet of the hmm and the problem is the hmm is 100 left to interpretation i do feel like amd is adopting a very new marketing strategy versus the past which is don't say stuff don't say nothing nothing stay quiet and i feel like that's a director from lisa sue probably because amd is known in the past for troll marketing and it was entertaining and it really fired up the fanboys but the problem is it led to hype trains that were derailed before they ever got to the station and then it over time that becomes uh it creates distrust with the brand because all those that were backing that brand and and going into reddit and just being you know uber fanboys and super fans were at the end of the day also disappointed as much as they would hide that disappointment they were and i don't think amd's doing that this this time around because i do believe they might be legitimately bringing something big to the fight big nabby being that thing that's big now this is where it's a little bit interesting because we're now wondering did nvidia leave room to slide in super variants of the card are we going to see a 30 70 super a 3080 super and a 3090 super because if we look at pricing the 30 70 versus the 700 30 80 the price of performance jumped there is pretty massive it's not a huge gap in terms of pricing it's only 200 so does that mean if we look at the past on the 20 series cards which is where we saw the super for the first time ti also existing um in something other than just the like the the what 70 variants like the 1070 ti and the 1080 ti now we saw 2060 super we saw 1660 and 1660 ti i think personally they're going to drop the ti naming altogether and i think they're just going to use super wherever they decide to slide cards in but paul on twitter also made a various astute observation which i think a lot of us saw which is with the 3090 being the titan replacement at only 1500 it leaves room for a 30 90 ti at 2 000 for the the super enthusiast that's like i don't care how much it costs i want the best no matter what it costs and we all know the best has a very diminishing return on price of performance but those people shopping don't care about that anyway shopping at that price point but does it leave room for a 999 card because 700 to 1500 999 is pretty much split in the gap there splitting the difference between the two giving us room if big navi does come out with something insane that we weren't expecting can they slide a card in there at that performance and the funny thing is if you look at the leaked road map regarding 30 series and yes there is a leaked road map for 30 series obviously i'm not going to share it with you guys for pretty obvious reasons there is the rtx 3080 the 30 90 and the 30 70. so the release dates being 3080 the 17th of september the 30 90 the 24th of september and then the 3070 being first half of october that's public knowledge we know about that there's a mystery skew on this pg-132 sku20 what is that is that the super variant or the ti variant of the 3070 that lenovo may have accidentally put a website public out there which is now offline it's before you get a 404 error when you go to it but oh man i would hate to be in lenovo shoes right now if that was an actual thing now let's talk about the 30-70 real quick i feel like that's going to be the battleground i feel like that is where the battle is going to take place between rdna 2 and nvidia because unfortunately for amd they take too long to do anything and that's just because they are finally seeing profits for the first time in decades they well not decades more than a decade it feels like decades it's been two decades since they truly competed with intel and now they're doing it again so here we are 20 years later and they're the hero when it comes to cpus they um they take too long to pivot and that's because they had to completely undo all the damage that this did for the radeon brand and they have to regain trust and had to regain loyalty and the problem is the 5700 xt showed that they're not quite matured yet with their driver department in their software department radeon uh radeon master software is just clunky in my opinion i don't like it and i think a lot of people have shared that same sentiment and when it takes long to completely re-pivot because they believe that hbm was the future and that's where they were all going to be going in the future the problem is that to completely pivot redesign and retool to try and get back on track now lisa sue's a phenomenal ceo she came in there as interim and is now obviously the commander-in-chief of amd rightfully so she's earned that position in the trust of the board and the and the um the stockholders but they've got to make up for a lot of lost time and a lot of lost momentum that nvidia has never lost because they are a perpetual or regular perpetual they are a perpetual motion machine that has a like what it seems like an endless supply of money and time to just constantly innovate which is funny because i feel like nvidia got bored with gpus which is why they went on to ai and self-driving cars and all that sort of stuff that's what happens when you have a lot of money and a lot of time and experience that's why uh 20 series was so expensive it was a new manufacturing process never done before 30 series is affordable i say affordable even though the prices are the same which everyone's praising is nobody gonna comment though that the prices are essentially the same of what 20 series came out with but everyone's now praising and talking about how affordable this is i think there was even a reddit post where someone was like oh my god what the frick is this is so cheap okay i really got onto a tangent but i do have a point obviously um there's a lot of time to be made up and the problem is in that amount of time nvidia is totally controlling the battle right now they have got map control with this their cards are out they beat amd to that they have room to pivot again with both pricing and adding more cards the problem with that and oh my god i hope nvidia is listening but it's not going to matter they've got their their strategy and they're going to do it regardless and they've got market strategists not going gonna listen to some youtuber like me or steve or whoever you're gonna quickly go from hero to villain again if you launch a 3070 super anywhere near this launch because what you would essentially do is just backhand the face of those that bought a 30-70 like you just did to the 2080 ti although you know that's fine anyone that bought a 20 ti 2080 ti in the last few months deserves the backhanded slap but the performance of a 37 because we've all been telling you this launch is coming just wait and those that didn't wait they're not mad about it don't have a leg to stand on on being angry you i told you so and i rarely say that i told you so but if you backhand those people that are going to be inevitably jumping from amd to nvidia early not waiting for rd and a2 and then come out with a card that potentially slides in that same price point that's faster man you're gonna so quickly go from hero to villain i really hope that that skew is a 30-60 because what we also know from apparent rumors and launch in this launch room around rdna 2 is unlike the rdna 1 where they only competed with the mid to upper mid-range and then worked their way down the stack i mean we got a 5300 on the screen right here they started 5700 xt and they're all the way down to 5300 is rdna 2 is apparently rumored to only try and compete with the high end leaving the 5300 5500s and the like to compete with amd in the mid range the problem is those cards are dead now because if the 3060 comes out and it gives us let's say 2070 super level performance it's going to be around the 350 price range if pricing history teaches us anything and if the 30 70 at 500 dollars is essentially a 2080 ti well what did the 2080 ti do compared to the 5700 xt 5700 xt's were running anywhere between 399 to 400 to 450 and they were 500 when they first came out but remember they reduced the price when the 2070 super came out again removing any of the real profit from the 5700 rdna architecture which means again amd operating at me either cost or a loss makes it extremely difficult to pivot again so what we're going to see here i think is a complete cease in sales of the 5000 series cards if a 3060 comes out i think right now we could probably if we were able to draw a chart and see actual sales numbers the moment 30 series was was mentioned i bet you you're gonna see an immediate halton sales of the 5700 xt and below because there's no one in their right mind even as a super fan that could justify purchasing a 5700 xt for anywhere anywhere near the price of a 30-70 which means amd has to drop the price i hope to god that that pg-132 sku-20 is a 30-60 and not a 30-70 ti they're playing the game of risk with this actually amd's playing the game of risk nvidia's they're basically the dungeon master in all of this i feel like i know that sounds very fanboy but this is actually from somebody who loves to follow economics and and business trends this is actually really exciting to watch unfold it's like watching paint dry but it's exciting but the other thing that we're seeing on the rumors regarding um our dna 2's mid-range because they are going to start at the top and hopefully come with an entire rda rdna2 family of cards just taking place you know replacing these 5000 series cards the rumor is not going to see that until like 2021 and that's an awful lot of time for people to wait when there's a an extremely incentivizing offering from nvidia because i have a i have a prediction i predict with the cost of manufacturing improvement on the uh the rtx cards the gtx 1600 series card was a real stop gap and i feel like that was a crumb thrown to people that were complaining about the pricing of rtrtx and how much the 20 or the yeah 2060 was because again any 60 there was the most expensive 60 series card they'd ever come out with you know versus 560 760 you know 960s and so it was really expensive those are normally in the 200 price range and this was 350 into 399. i predict we're going to see rtx cards exist all the way down the stack i have a feeling that we're not going to see a gtx card this time around i think they're all going to have rtx and i think the lowest end rtx card that you could buy like let's let's call it a 3050 could potentially be the specs of something like a 2060 super making it if you can get it like let's say a 30 50 with rtx in it allowing you to have some level of dlss and all that sort of stuff which is admittedly more exciting than ray tracing going to the truth about the rescaling yeah for 275 dollars what did you want one if you're shopping at that price point it gives too much time for amd uh for nvidia to really just dominate that market share and it also gives a lot of time for nvidia to be profitable to where when these new carts come out they could potentially drop the price and operate just above cost and and still make billions of dollars all right so some final thoughts here i know it's a little bit longer talking head video i feel like there's a lot to talk about and i wanted to talk about all this in my first video it would have been a 50 minute video at that point it would have been like a steve video when it comes to final thoughts this is still good regardless because what's going to happen here is you're either going to get cheaper amd cards you've already gotten a much more retail friendly price to performance with nvidia cards because don't forget they're really not any cheaper the 80 remember it was the 2080 ti that was 1200 dollars not the 2080 the 2080 was still the 700 msrp you're seeing now for 3080. it's just really fast and you at the worst possible case scenario you might see new cards come from nvidia sliding in between cards like we saw with the supers giving you better price to performance also which then leads to competition and we've seen competition drive innovation and it's exactly what's happened with amd cpu now when we had our meeting with amd last summer about rdna one we asked them straight up how do you guys plan on beating nvidia and their answer to us was our dna is going to be like ryzen where it's going to mature like fine wine and every single generation is going to give you huge advancements in performance per watt overall performance clock speeds and just maturity and we're waiting to see that and this is gonna be the first time we see that it's just the problem is it takes the the radeon team way longer to get something done than that's our cpu team speaking of cpus i got a video coming out for those of you that are running ryzen cpus looking at getting a 30 series card and some things you may not be considering and why you might want to just hold your horses before you pull the trigger on buying a 30 series card until we have some stuff to show you so if you guys want to see that video hit like down below and make sure you're subscribed because there's a lot to talk about this fall it's been a boring summer holy hell is going to be an exciting fall alright guys thanks for watching sound off down below if you think amd even has a chance against nvidia's 30 series and what your predictions are for big navy thanks for watching guys and as always we'll see you in the next one which which to a rep which also led to a quote tweet from which also led to a quote

Channel: JayzTwoCents

Views: 792,163

Rating: 4.9353266 out of 5

Keywords: 30 series gpu, 30 series video card, nvidia, rtx, nvidia rtx, rtx 3070, rtx 3080, rtx 3090, nvidia vs amd, amd vs nvidia, is the 3080 worth it, is the 3090 worth it, is the 3070 worth it, should I buy a 3070, should i buy a 3080, is nvidia worth it, is amd worth it, how much is rtx 3070, how much is 3080, how much is 3090, best video card 2020, best video card 2021

Id: HSaBQeEPw3U

Length: 21min 7sec (1267 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 02 2020