Bernard Kerik Opens Up

between then and a next call where the commander-in-chief makes the call what happens during that time I think the biggest thing was 846 on the morning of September 11th I was the commissioner he said a plane just did tower one I looked at the top of the building and I could see the damage and I thought that's no small plane I've been in gun battles I'd been stabbed I've been shot at I'm gonna die suffocating in this room because I can't breathe there is no greater Police Department in the world than the NYPD your personality right now I'm sitting with you you seem very chill you see Mary you know he's but is that the personality back then this is right after he came back from Canada how would I know this [Music] so today we are sitting down with Bernard Kerik who is known as the former Commissioner of NYPD I believe it was a three and a half billion dollar budget that he was managing 55,000 employees reporting to him and he was the commissioner the correction department in New York which both of them are the biggest organizations in America and sake in prison and I'm talking about police department he was running it during that time until he had some challenges he faced and we're gonna talk about some of that stuff he's also got a new book that just came out recently from jail or to jail he's also a former New York Times bestseller for another book he wrote years ago so with that being said Bernard care thank you for being a guest on Barry taemin thank you sir I mean that's a pretty interesting resume you have there you know when when I when I've been around yeah when I read up on you and I go through and the more I'm diggin you got recognized you came up with this team system that Harvard recognized as a accountability system on how you were able to organize that a lot of different organizations used it and you get credit for coming out with that you've had over 30 awards that was given to you for different works that you've done I mean there's so many different things and then at the same time the time were you standing right next to President Bush and they're talking about you becoming who you become and in the fall right after that part so prior to let's go back to the beginning on that's what this whole thing got started who was Bernard Kerik at 16 years old if I was in high school with you who were you if you were in high school with me you'd never know me cuz I didn't I didn't go to high school that much you know I had a pretty rough upbringing I was abandoned by my mother eight three three and a half she was beaten to death and murdered when I was nine we moved out of Newark it was a rough place and moved to Patterson which was equally as rough was just smaller and more compact I went to East Side High School which became famous or I should say infamous in the major motion picture lean on me with Morgan Freeman mm-hm I think there were probably about 25-30 white kids in the school at the time out of 1700 I was one of them that was a rough place to go to school and it really wasn't an education you learned how to survive you learn how to fight ironically for me fortunately I got involved in the martial arts when I was 13 I got my black belt my first thing we black belt when I was 16 and I realized school wasn't uh wasn't gonna do it it wasn't a learning institution center it was a fighting center so for me the best thing to do was get out I quit high school at 16 for the next year year and a half I worked for a moving company until I realized that humping furniture for a lifetime is not the way to go and at 18 years old I joined the military and that's where my career sort of took off so it was a combination of the martial arts where I started to learn respect and discipline and physically you know I was in phenomenal shape then I went the military I learned structure and I learned more discipline and I found my niche in the military I became a military police officer I spent three years in the military sometime down at Fort Bragg in North Carolina I spent some time in Korea got out went to work for a federal task force and then some of the guys that that I actually met at Fort Bragg they were retiring out of the military out of the Special Forces units and I get a call one day to work in Saudi Arabian this is like 1978 so this is a time long before anybody in this country know anything about terrorism or you know Muslims or Islam or or any of that I remember going home and telling my father I'm going to Saudi Arabia to work and my father sitting at the dining room table and he looks at me goes Arabia he goes you know I saw a movie one time like Lawrence of Arabia I think it's hot deer and that's about as much as anybody knew like nobody had a clue so I went to Saudi I went on an 18-month contract I wound up staying two and a half years I came back to the US went to work as a cop it down in North Carolina then moved up to New Jersey to a Sheriff's Department started working there and lo and behold I went back to Saudi Arabia again from 1978 to 1980 I was there the first time who were you representing in Saudi Arabia why were you a cop in in Jersey you going back as a contractor no the first time I went as a contractor for an American firm I was in the Security Division for the firm they were actually building the King Khalid military city upon the Kuwaiti border the second time I went back I was the chief of investigations for the Royal Family's Hospital in Riyadh I was young I was 27 years old 28 years old and that was from 82 to 84 and ironically you know it's kind of weird as I look back today because the king of Saudi Arabia today King Salman mm-hmm was actually at that time the governor of Riyadh and I used to hang out with his the head of his security detail who ironically was also the executioner you know he would behead people on Friday so you know he'd go through his thing and then we go to like we'd go eat did you actually see any of it or no you didn't see I've seen many I've seen I used to remember the numbers I think I've seen about 22 beheadings seen six dismemberments in one stoning what does that do to your brain to you I mean how does it get you to a point where it's kind of like yeah the first time is it's pretty shocking you know when you see it the first time it's almost like in your head you're watching this and you're thinking okay that's like their son you know it's like a joke like that's not real or whatever but it's it's cold it's crude it's rough I stayed to another two years 18 months at that time came back went to work back in the Sheriff's Department that I took a leave of absence from I became warden of that County Jail I was 30 years old I guess I took over the jail this is Jersey this Jersey se County New Jersey Passaic County Jail it was in Paterson where I'd sort of grown up and then in 1986 I filed an application with the NYPD from the time I was young when I became an MP I wanted to be in new york city cop but I was I was traveling I was in Saudi Arabia I was in North Carolina I was in Jersey I'm back in Saudi Arabia now the NYPD calls and they said listen dude this is it night in July 1986 is your class if you don't get in that class because of my age you're done you're never gonna go now keep in mind I had I had a gold shield eight stars at a white shirt I had a car I was the chief I was 30 years old and the warden of the Passaic County Jail one of the biggest jobs in New Jersey and I had to make a decision am I gonna leave am I gonna you know give this up give this chief chops up a chief's job mm-hmm and and take the job in the NYPD as a rookie cop and I did what why did you know look it was a lifelong dream and to me there's no greater Police Department in the world than the NYPD you know when you watch movies you know if it's if it's not the LAPD you know it's LAPD's a great department however nothing compares to this city and you know from the time I was younger that's all I wanted to do so now realize from the time you were really are you talking like high school time when you like high school I used to see the cops I I write about this in my first book where I used to see these cops you know most of the time they were slapping me around telling me go home or you know get off the street or something from the time I was young I wanted to be a cop the more I learned the more I was exposed to the world there's no bigger no better than the NYPD and that's what I wanted so in July of 1986 I took off the gold shield took off the Stars and a white shirt I went to the Brooklyn Technical Institute right over here in Brooklyn Ed Koch was there raised my right hand I got sworn in and I went back to Jersey and resigned soon as I got sworn he and I went back to Jersey everything make sure was real make sure it was real all my colleagues all my friends you know they pretty much said you're nuts like to be completely and did you take a big kid with salary I mean I took a 50% pay 50% 50% pay cut it was I had a couple times in your career I've done it a couple times and everybody's laughed when I've done it and it's been hard it was a hardship but it's always worked out for the best in the end you know you follow your dream you follow you know you follow what's in your heart and you know you'll be better off for it I think so from there now you have this job you're NYPD you've wanted to be a cop you've been looking forward to being an NYPD what happens next yeah I go to the academy I'm probably one of the oldest guys in the Academy I'm 31 years old at the time most of the kids coming under job they're 20 21 22 my first assignment I'm in Brooklyn for six months my training and then I get assigned right here right down the street Midtown south precinct I had a foot-post on West 42nd between 7th and 8th Avenue one block and that one block all day long I don't care what tour you were doing and you were doing a day's afternoons or Midnight's doesn't make any difference for eight hours the entire time you were on that block you ran your ass off you know man with a gun robbery in progress you know a rape in a movie theater somebody jumped off the building somebody threw somebody on their train you name it while for eight hours a day keep in mind this is 1987-88 this was the crack the time of the crack epidemic it was a bad bad place in Times Square was booming 24 hours a day so if you want if you like this job if you wanted that type of action you couldn't be in a better spot and as you wanted it if you want it what you to kind of wanted it I wanted this I love I left the chief's job to take - oh you wanted the action I wanted that's what I wanted that's what I came for and that's what I got so I was in Midtown south for about a year and a half in December of 1988 I applied for narcotics and I wanted a detective shield I wanted a New York City detective shield the coveted gold shield and I was told by everybody fastest way to get a detective shield is go to narcotics as an undercover you can go to get a detective shield in a precinct squad you can go to a robbery enhancement unit you can go to narcotics as an investigator but if you do all those there's a track that gets you they're probably within three to five years if you go as an undercover you get your shield in 18 months and the reason that that happens is because being an undercover most of the time you have no vest you have no gun your sole function in life is to put yourself in harm's way to buy drugs and didn't you at that time have earrings you had you wore leather pants you had long wooden what was it because I read some part what you want well I still have the holes at one time I had like seven you know diamonds and a gold loop in my ear I had a big goatee I had a big beard I had hair down I had hair period but it was at the time it was down the middle of my back and I get transferred to narcotics where do they send me Manhattan North Harlem Spanish Harlem of Washington Heights it was like a war zone I remember going from Midtown south to Manhattan north sitting out in front of the 2-6 precinct in front of the precinct station just standing out there talking to friends and you'd hear gunfire like on the block where the precinct is shots fired down here shots fired around the corner shots fired down the other end of the block is this post Moloch has Joe Pistone already gone and done his 6 years of undercover with the Bonanno family when the 200 people got arrested has that already happened no it was like around it was kind of sword at the same time he was a little ahead of me was a shock when he came out and you're like what is this guy doin undercover because you're working in a different department honestly I didn't even know I didn't even know I heard lit when I found out later somebody called me from Paterson and said did you see the news and I said no and they told me all about it and they see you know who it is so know this is Joe Pistone let's get the hell out of here they said yeah I didn't even know he's with the FBI Wow that's the part to me that's so impressive for him to stay six years undercover like that yeah I mean that's that's unheard of actors can act for a month this guy acted for six years yeah and listen I was an undercover for just over two years it's not easy so I did that did really well in what I had to do was involved in a couple bad things I had some friends that were killed my partner was actually shot and wounded in a gun battle with me I shot the guy that that shot him you had a medal for them you got you got it yeah I actually I got thirty medals from the NYPD alone including the Medal of Valor Medal of Valor was for the detective Hector Santiago was shot a guy fired through his windshield and he put his hand up shot him through the through the arm and he went out the door the second round went through the headrest of the car so luckily he was fast enough to get out of the car and I want them taken down the guy that did it and after narcotics after that I get transferred to the New York DEA task force and that's a task force that consists of New York City cops New York State Police troopers investigators and DEA agents and I went to the task force I was assigned to a phenomenal group with a guy by the name of Jerry speciale he was my co case agent and over the next three and a half years we wound up in Costa Rica Guatemala Brazil Ecuador and Colombia did you do anything with Pablo's group word that was no not Pablo's group a cha WA was the main target in our case oh you did something with Cali didn't you I got something you did something with Cali a bunch of major major case work we seized in about two years over about a two-year period in excess of about ten tons of cocaine enough to fill this room ten tons tons see sixty million in cash brought back a whole you know locked up a whole bunch of bad guys I love that work I liked working into DEA and in 1992 while this is going on while I'm at DEA I actually went to a dinner one night an honor Legion dinner it's a fraternal group in the NYPD of of all these heroic cops so to get in the Honor Legion you have to have a certain metal or above to get in right to be accepted so I went to this dinner one night one of the guys comes over and he says listen Rudy Giuliani who was the former US attorney he's running for mayor and we want you to introduce him this is married vincas his running against Incans yes you know I didn't know Rudy at the time the mr. Giuliani at the time so I said ok I want you to do some when he comes in it's like five six hundred cops and at the time I had literally I'd had hair down to here I had a big beard I had all these earrings so they bring me in this thing they introduced me to Giuliani I shake his hand and I go out and introduce him and he gets this wild standing ovation based on what I see all around him up III brought him up I introduced got it and lo and behold then you know within a couple days somebody called me and said Rudy called and wants to meet you for breakfast is it for what well what's he want you know it's like it's I'm gonna go meet him I didn't even own a suit like you know what am i doing I want to meet him and we had a great conversation over about an hour hour and a half and I talked about city about narcotics about crime about all the stuff that was going on in the city and got to know him and then from that point on this is like in 1992 I guess until 1994 I actually helped work on his campaign I brought in guys volunteers to work on his security detail constantly fed him information you know a lot of the stuff that was gone on the PD that I thought would help the city and then lo and behold in 1994 he wins and he becomes the mayor of New York there's a lot of cities to be mayor's in mayor of New York is not like me and mayor of you know another city this is no you know why because when you're the mayor of New York City it's like a national position right you have the UN you have a hundred and eighty different countries represented in New York City you have 12 million people that live here work here visit here go to school here on a daily basis you have a bigger budget the New York City budget is bigger than probably 40 state budgets New York City budget is bigger than 40 state budgets yeah so let me ask you while you were drawing this is the time when you were driving him on the weekends and you had one you were guys driving him on the weekday because that's what I read about throughout is that what it is yes I drove him on the weekends once in a while but mostly I supervised I oversaw the he's really trusted you he really trusted me yeah he really trusted you can tell when you when you read about it and I think I read somewhere where you and him both read gods but watch God Father over fifty times or something like that all the time yeah all the time I still do it I said but yeah our favorite movie I got to know him real well between 92 or 94 I was with him a lot so he wins takes over in January of 95 and in May I get a call from my command to go down and see him at City Hall January of 95 I know May he calls you but January 95 who are you in New York are you somebody that is already reputable well-connected people know who you are you are seen as somebody that could be futures no Jen you're January of 95 I was in the Department of Correction Rudy called me down earlier and said look I want you to put in a new Commissioner in correction there was a riot that's what happened there was a riot at Rikers a bunch of correction officers got hurt in Giuliani said look I'm changing out to come getting rid of the commissioner I'm bringing somebody new in he's gonna need help I want you to go I know you ran the jail in Jersey go and help him so we agreed I agreed I'll do this for six months not commissioner you're helping no I was gonna go as the executive assistant to the commissioner got it you know the executive assistant of the chief of staff for a commissioner you're the buffer to the entire executive staff you're the buffer to the outside community so that's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna go in the air I'm gonna be his executive assistant chief of staff well I went and we agreed Rudy and I agreed I'm gone for six months not sure what happened I didn't leave for six years I was there for six months right around the time that I was thinking I was gonna leave the mayor made a major change he got rid of that commissioner he brought in a new commissioner who was the head of probation at the time and at 11 o'clock at night one night I get a call to Gracie Mansion and I walk in and he says listen the mission is gonna be leaving tomorrow and we're bringing it somebody new he said and I want you to work with him to do ABCD and all this stuff he says so I'm looking at him and I said listen I can I'll do what I can do I said but he's the commissioner and I you know I can't there's only so much I can do as the chief of staff I don't want euros oh I forgot no you're not gonna be the chief of staff you're gonna be the first deputy now the first deputy commissioner is the number two guy in charge and I'm looking at him and I said listen could we talk about this because I ran a jail a big jail bad jail this is the biggest jail system in the country Rikers has ten facilities there's six facilities in the five boroughs he's like no we just talked about it it's fine you're going to do this so you were pushing back but you don't want this job I didn't you know I was nervous you know I've done it before I actually thought I could do it I wasn't worried about it but it's a big job and he said no you're gonna do it and the next day he appointed the new commissioner appointed me first deputy and boom we took off so from that point on for the next two and a half years I was the first deputy and then the Commissioner retired did you know this coming or no okay so did he retire young was he now he went to he does what everybody else does they go to academia and the you know professor at this College that College came in one afternoon around two o'clock in the afternoon he says uh closes the door and we had a great relationship his name was Mike Jacobson he says I got good news and bad news I said what's giving the bad news first he said bad news is I'm leaving I'm like really he said yep he says I just want Sita mayor he said good news is you're getting a job I said no I I think maybe that that might have been the bad news part and we laughed and about an hour later the mayor called me over to City Hall and says tomorrow morning you're being appointed this is that eight hundred and thirty-five million dollar budget thirteen thousand employees this is that one you're talking about 130,000 inmate admissions per year a year yeah about a 900 million dollar budget a you know 13,000 staff how are you at this time I am let me see that was 1990 98 I'm gonna take over so I was 43 42 43 yeah and let me ask you your personality right now I'm sitting with you you seem very you know easygoing you seem very chill you seem very you know ease but is that the personality back then because I've read some stuff about you like you know what it is like you know how you talk to somebody in there at a different faith and you're talking about how they were at their 20s and 30s you ask around and they say he was a fierce competitor he was cold he was vicious like if they talk about certain people in certain industries to do what you were doing you kind of have to be that way aren't you like aren't you paid to kind of be look yeah I was an extremely aggressive manager I was a no-nonsense manager I think I'm very and you if you ask the people that work for me they'll tell you I'm extremely firm I'm very fair my management style is pretty simplistic if you work and you work hard and you produce you'll get ahead if you don't you got to go I'm not big on transferring failure you see a lot of times guys in this position and he's doing this thing and he's not doing well or he's he's messing up well you know a lot of bosses will take him and they'll move him from here to here I'm not big on that because if he failed over here he's gonna fail over here how you do one thing to tell you everything that's what and then and then more importantly you create dissension it create animosity you create sort of a cancer within the agency so for me it's sort of black and white you do well you produce and that was the that was the concept you mentioned teams earlier teams though the the acronym stands for total efficiency accountability and management system was recognized by Harvard the the innovations in American government program and it's basically how I created the internal management system and countability system for Rikers keep in mind when I took over Rikers or when I went to Rikers in 1995 we averaged a hundred and fifty stabbings and slashings per month with the highest violence rate of any jail or prison system in the nation it was the most violent the most corrupt the most dangerous crime ridden dirty filthy mismanaged and in six years that I was there we took it from the worst of the worst in the country and turned it into an international model for efficiency accountability and safety some some interesting stats on what happened well there was a there was a ninety 93 or 94 percent reduction in stabbings and slashings a 40 percent reduction in overtime spending now keep in mind when I took over we were spending 112 million a year in overtime I knocked that down by 40 40 50 percent assaults on staff I knocked it down by 40 how did you do what did you do with that like like is it almost if you're gonna play dirty you have to play your game as well what's a little bit of that it's a little bit of that but you know what it is more than more than that far more than that look at Jack Welsh and GE how did he manage he managed based on data data collection Home Depot Walmart how do they manage what what do they do to achieve what they want done right they collect data they could they have performance measures they first of all they have goals of the goals and objectives they create performance measures to get to those goals and objectives and then they have an accountability system internally that goes after those metrics goes after those performance measures and you have to hold people accountable to get there so slashings and stabbings for example I wanted I wanted the violence reduced nobody understood this concept overtime was out of control sick time was out of control for every day yours you know the correction officers in the department at the time you had in there in the budget 12 days a year sick time in the budget / correction officer so they could be up to up - they could be sick for up to 12 days it was in the budget anything over that that they were over that 12 day period 1.6 million dollars that's what it cost the agency my average when I took over the Department of Correction was twenty two days a year that's thirty five million dollars that it cost the city so when I came in and I looked at this I said you know what the overtime and the sick time is driven by one thing it's driven by violence if you drive down the violence you're gonna drive down the overtime the sick time and everybody is looking at me like I had three heads how do you drive down violence though well you go out the violence thing is easy the violence thing is holding the inmates accountable for criminal conduct and here's what I had a punishments and bigger punishment when I came into the department yeah I the first stabbing the first major bad thing that I saw to Spanish kids took a black kid held him down on the ground took a chicken bone sharpened and they gave about 70 stitches in his back they carved LK into his back the initials for Latin Kings and my guys came to my office and I said alright what happens now what are we doing with these guys they said what I went to punitive segregation as I know but what are you charged with well they don't we don't charge them criminally why they said because the Bronx DA won't prosecute it I said wait wait a minute they held the kid down on the ground to give me 70 stitches if I walked outside the facility if I walked outside this hotel and I went out on the street and I took a small razor blade and I nicked you in your hand I'd get charged with assault possession of a weapon and who knows what else right in jail you mean to tell me you could just about murder somebody and nobody's getting charged criminally all right that's gonna stop so I called the Bronx da and I said listen he said I don't have the manpower to prosecute all these cases I said you have it now because I'm gonna send people to you I'm gonna send investigators up to the Bronx I'll do whatever you need but I can't this can't be a criminal haven for criminal active interest thing so how soon did that happen how soon did that standard get applied with in a month okay and then how some did everybody how the inmates realize what's happening there so I mean obviously news travels pretty fast in three months we saw a substantial reduction but then there's other things I enhance the emergency service unit to go out and start doing searches of the dormitories you know guys slashed and stabbed they need weapons right where's the weapons so you start looking for the weapons you start holding the inmates accountable you start holding the staff accountable to make sure that they're going out and doing the job they're supposed to do in the wrong duty that's the piece on the violence and I'm making it simplistic it's far more complicated but simplistically that's that's sort of what we were doing now when the violence comes down you have less hospital runs say you say there's a confrontation between two witnesses this inmate gets cut this inmate gets cut they go to another hospital this guy needs two officers on him you need two on you those two come from a facility so now you have four officers they have to go to the hospital you have to backfill the positions at the facility you now have four eight guys on overtime and people in you know headquarters and in City Hall they couldn't figure out where all the overtime was coming from so let me ask you where did you learn this because you mentioned Jack Welch are you reading business but at that time were no honestly are you reading David Osborne wrote a book called reinventing government and when I was fooling around with Giuliani in 1992 from 1992 to 1994 Giuliani had the book in the car and I went and got the book for myself and I read the book what gets measured gets done that's the thing the only thing I remember about it now but I basically took that book the business concept of management and said you know what it works in business it works in Home Depot it works in Walmart that works in General Electric in other places as Wow and I said why can it work here so when you look at overall stats right violence over time routine maintenance you know they'd shut down a complete wing of a jail system a complete wing because they didn't have a key why won't it take to make a key well it takes three days three days makes three takes three days I would have meetings and I would lose my mind it takes three days to make a key well you have to put the order and you got to do a thing and then it's got to get approve and it's got this really so that key that took three days to get made cost me $200,000 extra for that three-day period because I had to move inmates to another facility are you crazy no making a key takes about four minutes so we're gonna streamline the process to get to the key maker and we're gonna make the key in about an hour how much should that happens today in the government it's amazing I remember being in the Army they should say government spends money like they buy products that are not even worth that much and they're paying over for just because somebody doesn't know how to negotiate and someone's not hold them accountable well she does get the negotiation you just said the magic word it's all about accountability accountability the negotiation part is a part of the accountability you need to hold people accountable how much are you making at that time as a commissioner of a correction about 140 grand you see that's the problem it's Balto you know because I when you look at how police officers get paid right so the current way at least when you look it up a police officer nor who is not the safest place versus maybe another city in Jersey my son's a cop indoors is and I read that that's great the fact that he's 32 years old right 33 years old yeah when you read that and you say okay well copper in a safer place you know Beverly Hills 90210 nicer zip code they're getting paid more yet they're doing less to workers there is no crime than a guy in Detroit as a cops making $36,000 it just doesn't make any sense so the areas where they're working double time they're getting paid less than the areas where they're not getting any kind of things going on they're getting paid more I think there's a little bit of a flaw during the in the in the math but there's a flaw listen it's not only a flaw the government's the city government state governments they can only afford with it can afford how do you solve that no how do you solve that in you could have to matter what you have to hope yeah you have to have hope the you have cops like my son you know and this is a true story what I'm gonna tell you he was he started his career in Passaic County where I where I was and about three years in he got laid off and I called him up to my house and I said listen I'm gonna help you get a job and I got some great places that make an enormous amount of money and I'm gonna call the chief and I'm gonna see if you can go here you know to Ridgewood New Jersey or you know Paramus New Jersey cops are a white shield uniformed cop making a hundred twenty thirty thousand you that's amazing right there okay my son comes in he says that's alright dad I know where I'm going as we go easy don't get mad but I know where I'm going and I've already planned it and I want to go there I said we're going he's I'm going to Newark and I just looked at him I said dude you go into Newark it's probably one of the lowest paying jobs in the state and it's like the eighth highest crime rate in America you're going to Newark and I said why don't you come up here while I live and he looks at me this is God's honest truth he says that when your wife has geese and this swimming pool out back she calls the cops he goes I am NOT chasing geese I run a school that's what I say so so I said so I I tried I tried the money thing you know like he does so he's a true baby and I said listen I says what about the money what about your career he goes oh I'm talking to the guy that took a 50% pay cut because he wanted to follow his dream how's his relationship with you there's the admirers are living up admiration for my son literally is my best friend he's my best friend you know he's my closest confidant he's my best friend how do the same relation my dad my dad's my best friend the world now I can't even describe it you that affinity if I want to be happy my husband my best friend so I'm assuming you're big Yankees fan absolutely you were telling me earlier something about the logo so you what is this special thing about this he has his logo see this logo yes in 1877 the NYPD created a Medal of Honor on that Medal of Honor there's a logo just like this that's where this logo came from Wow because in 1923 the New York Yankees adopted it so they this close connection there's this tie between New York City cops and the New York Yankees and that's one of the reasons and that's you said who design at Tiffany's design Tiffany's cast on it at the time and you said the one when you got your Commissioner badge the first one that was given in hate and something was Teddy Roosevelt it was about Teddy Roosevelt once the the head of the Commission in 1897 while 1897 and a years later you're a fortieth yep police commissioner let's go back to that part so obviously you have certain systems that's working in the jail you're running 13,000 employees hundred forty hundred thirty thousand inmates that are coming through regularly you have all these different responsibilities that you're doing nine hundred million dollar budget you're changing the numbers you're bringing on overtime from 120 million dollars forty percent lower all of these things you made the decisions your keys gonna cost two hundred thousand dollars because you got to move people wait three days so now how do you go from there to Commissioner of NYPD I mean that's a you know that happened the priests story to that is 11 days earlier the New York City Police Commissioner Howard safer resigned retired rehired so this is not a positive note no negative no no wasn't kind of he was leaving he was done and the mayor had to fill that position so at the end of the 11 days there were two people in the running Joe Dunn was the chief of Department for the NYPD's the number three in command and there was me that they were looking at the mayor interviewed him the mayor interviewed me and for eleven days we had no clue who it was nobody we didn't have an idea are you talking to him throughout that 11 day period or not I had with him I you know constant they're still communication there's communications but he he's not saying a word and on August I think it was August 19th it was a Friday night mayor called my house about 11:30 that night and said tomorrow morning you're gonna be appointed maybe in New York City's 40th police commissioner so you go from having 13,000 staff members to having 55,000 you go from a billion dollar budget to having a three and a half billion dollar budget most importantly you're not dealing with the inmates but you have to worry about the 12 million people that visit live work go to school in a city on a daily basis the next morning I went to City Hall and I was appointed New York City's 40th police commissioner how'd you feel at the time I can't say how I felt at the time I was sort of floating on a cloud it's sort of overwhelming you know it's it's it's a big enormous job because you know sometimes when you're in that moment it goes so fast that you don't even have time to appreciate it yeah but you know what I've had in my career I've had about four or five of those correction Commissioner getting appointed as commissioner getting appointed to the NYPD as commissioner I remember in 2003 I was sent to Iraq by President Bush as the interim Minister of Interior and I remember getting there and I was there for less than 24 hours and my press guys come to me and they said commissioned the press they know you're here now so you have to do a press conference so we're gonna go over and do the press conference and I said okay so where we going we're going through this big hall in this in the Republican Guard palace and we get over there and this is big massive throne that's the only that's the only way I could describe it it's a throne made out of like tiger skin or leopard skin or something I forget what it was and they said okay you're gonna go up on the on the dais up there and you're gonna sit in that chair and then and I said guys I gotta sit in that chair they said yeah I said why hey so cuz that's worth presses can't you get a normal chair they said listen that was the dumbest chair just go up there and sit in the chair and I can remember thinking in my head really that was Saddam's chair like Saddam had meetings here like two months ago and I'm sitting in his chair so it's that kind of stuff in my career I can remember things like that it was kind of nuts Shh showcase so now you're NYPD Commissioner everyone around the states knows you you're always on TV you're being written about talked about paper every day there's something because you're the man in charge you're the guy that on the whole show what's between then and a next call and I'm talking to call from the top where the commander in chief makes the call what happens during that time I think the biggest thing was 846 on the morning of September 11th I was the commissioner I was in my office I was actually taking a shave I just finished exercising I'm standing there taking a shave and my chief of staff came in banging on the door I opened the door and I said what is it would it would eat what are you doing he said a plain just did Tower one I said all right calm down and I thought it was I thought I was gonna look out the window and see you know a small aircraft sticking out the window or something I looked at the damage of the building I could see it on it I had a TV above our tread my treadmill and I could see the damage so I actually walked out of my office with the towel wrapped around me went into my conference room pulled back the shades and I could see the building it's only about quarter mile away I looked at the top of the building and I could see the damage and I thought that's no small plane I don't know what that is I even had doubts whether it was a plane at all I didn't know what it was I called the mayor I said look I'll meet you at 7:00 World Trade Center which was right across the street from Tower one that's where our command center was is that 7 World Trade Center over 75 Barclays Oh 75 Barclays is where you guys know 75 Barclays where I got trapped right I went downtown went to go to 7 World Trade and when we got to Vesey Street there were cops on that corner stopping the traffic and my guy said look I got the Commissioner in the car and a sergeant ran up to the Kearney says he salutes me and he says commissioner you can't get onto the block he said they're jumping I said what he said they're jumping and I had no conception of what he was taught I didn't know what he was talking about I get out of the car and I looked down the street and you know people were jumping you saw that you you saw that taking place yeah but listen I know people saw it on TV but in the early minutes in that first it's in that first 30 minutes in that first 15 because I was down there within seven or eight minutes I probably watched two or three dozen people jump they were coming down some two or three at a time and they were landing on Vesey they were landing in the courtyard between Tower one and Tower two and they were hitting the over headings of the building so you could hear it I was up the block I was about a hundred yards up the block and you can hear him hitting that overhang and you know exploding so the mayor got the air within three or four minutes after the second plane I was standing in front of Tower one in Tower two when the second plane slammed through the north side of the tower I could hear the aviation pilots or helicopter pilots in the NYPD saying that a second airliner just land through Tower two and that's when I realized we were under attack what happens Thanks Giuliani gets there within two or three minutes I told him what I had just seen we actually walked down to West Street we went to the command center where the fire department's executive staff was so was the first Deputy Commissioner was the chief of Department the chief of operations there chaplain father judge couple NYPD guys that I knew we talked to them we were there about 10 15 minutes and we left went back to 75 Barclay Street where I initially met him we're gonna put him in an office there so that he could call the White House we wanted to make sure we had air support we're gonna make sure we were getting resources from the government and he he went into this small office at 75 Barclay we're standing there our staff is all around us he's sitting in front of me on a phone he's talking to the White House and all the sudden he hangs up the phone and he looks at me he says that's not good I said what is it he said I think they said that the Pentagon just got hit and they're evacuating the White House I didn't even have time to grasp what he said because as he said that the building we were in started to shake like a freight train was coming through the side of it the door slammed open and Joe Esposito was my chief of Department the door slams open in he yells everybody get down it's coming down and I didn't know if he was talking about the building we were in or something else all the windows blew out the doors blew open the place filled with dust and gas and debris and it was over in about 12 seconds and it was mass chaos outside we couldn't breathe so we we actually got trapped inside there we couldn't get out the way we went in because that was on the outside and so we were gonna try to get through the building all the doors were locked we were physically trapped in this office suffocating and all of a sudden one of the doors opened and there's these two Spanish guys that were maintenance guys with a ton of keys on them and I said those keys for these doors is yes sir I said open these doors I need to get to Church Street I need to go that way and he opened the doors and off we went and we got out of the building otherwise I could remember actually thinking I've been in gun battles I've been stabbed I've been shot at I'm gonna die suffocating in this room because I can't breathe we eventually got out and mayor Giuliani is with you the entire time where you put him at that office to just no no he was with us the entire time the whole time you're trying to get into Church streets so he's good and we did we you know we got through the doors we got out on to church you know it was weird we got to Church Street that building the whole front of that building is solid white you know big windows Florida a floor-to-ceiling windows and I remember walking into that lobby and looking out at those windows and they were white there was solid white and I'm like what is that what's house what is that we went over to the circular vestibule door push the door open got outside and there were two things that struck me now we are literally we're probably three or four blocks from the towers right there was this much dust on the ground where we were all over and there was no sound it was absolutely no sound no birds no sirens no horns no nothing it was like when you walked out that door it's like somebody's put earphones on you and you couldn't hear anything it was really strange and then somebody told us that the building came down she had this moment Mayor Giuliani gets a call he realizes pentagons got hit his ball white house is being evacuated all eyes on New York everybody's watching to see what's gonna happen what happens next we got out on the church street you know when you talk about leadership and you're talking about some of the stuff I've done and people credit me for things my management style I remember getting out onto Church Street and the mayor turning to his press secretary it says get me a pole camera right now and I can remember and I know him well I can looking at him thinking really we're gonna do a press conference here like I don't know if this is the time but it wasn't the time and that's not what he was doing he already knew in his mind that the entire world's watching and somebody has to tell them and it's gonna be okay and when you think back to that day and you look at that footage you'll see him we're literally walking I mean we're we're in motion and he they get the pool camera they get him up to him they get the microphone stick it in his face and he said listen here's what I want you know people stay in your house you know don't panic it's bad yes but it's gonna be okay we're gonna get through this and between that and the first press conference which was later that afternoon I can't tell you how many people thousands of people that have come up to me in airports walking down the street in different towns in the West Coast all over the country where I've been where people have come up to me and say you made me feel safe because I had no damn idea what was gonna happen and if it wasn't for you and it wasn't for Giuliani I don't know what would happen I don't know what I was thinking that you guys made me feel safe even even people who disagree with you and they've said that as well even people who were kind of like you know I don't like the way he handled XYZ when it came down to how that 9/11 he meant was handled we wasn't have anybody else in that position that we we did the best we could but I think I think the combination worked and worked well that led to President Bush giving you call how many years after we would that's an oh one I think oh four I live in I live you know - I live in January of Oh - I retire I'm done with my government service so I thought until May about three I was actually at you know I'm in Manhattan I'm going to Barneys to buy some shirts my cell phone rings and it's it's somebody at the Pentagon they said the president wants you to come meet with secretary Rumsfeld and then I wound up going to Iraq for four months as the Minister of Interior to get them up and running and to get the new Minister of Interior in place my wife wasn't too happy about that given it was a war zone but I went I did what the president wanted got it done came back then I thought my government's service was over for sure than in December you know the president gets reelected November of four within about a week after he gets elected re-elected I get a call from the White House they're sending me some questions and they send me those questions is this Dana Powell or D novena palutena Powell yeah deena man you got a good memory yeah yeah Deana Powell sends me some questions answer them get it back to us at which time I find out that I'm being considered to take Tom Ridge his job in Homeland Security I've already run the largest Police Department largest jail system this was a job it was a new job the Department of Homeland Security had just been created on the ridge he put it all together 22 federal agencies and a staff of about 180,000 people I was ready I thought I could do it I knew I could do it the president knew I can do it we had that conversation him and I actually is that when he had just come back from a Canada uh how will I know this leg because I've studied your story the night before there's a part the night before where you were in tears because you turn down the job the first time then this I'm like I'm curious to know how what was the you know you were conflicted what were you thinking about the night where you and your wife were like baby I don't know if I want it like I don't know what that conversation was you know it was it was the Thanksgiving it was either the night before the night after Thanksgiving you know they called me and said this is it you know the the president's gonna ask you if you want the job and I thought if I take this job like my my life savings now at this point is pretty substantial you know I've been in the private sector for three years I was making good money but I'm gonna have to give up a substantial piece of this in the millions day you know you have to be specific that's a hundred thousand shares that $50 I saw was like it was like eight million dollars they were basically telling me you got a forfeit yeah and I was at the Taser Company closer yeah I taste a stock I'm like I you know I don't know you know I don't know if I want to do that and my wife was like is it really worth it I don't know I don't think so I told my wife I said okay I'm done I'm not gonna do it you sure I said yeah okay so I'm gonna wait until they call and then I'm gonna tell them so Dina calls I said look I gotta talk to you I don't think gonna happen and she said hold on and in the card got on the phone and Andy card was the chief of staff for the president I forget the entire conversation but he basically says look you know there's all that stuff in the press where the president's looking at this guy and that guy in this person in that person he's only interested in one person he wants you to take the job and I remember I'm sitting in my office and my wife sitting there across from me and she's looking at me and she's going no no don't no and I'm like and I'm going yes sir uh-huh and I'm scared that that's like I don't want it I don't want to say nothing out loud it's gonna give her a way that I'm doing this and I agreed I'm gonna go see the president I hang up the phone I told her I said look I can't say no to the president I'm not gonna do it I said you know let me I'm gonna go see him this wasn't like this is like I think on a Monday or something so I got to go see him on Wednesday and I get in the car and I Drive to DC me and Tony Carr Bonetti Giuliani's chief of staff we drove down together we went to the JW Marriott and I would have forgot that if you didn't remind me and I can remember the president flying over the building here in the helicopters and Tony were sitting in the hotel suite and he looks at me says okay start getting ready cuz he's gonna call you soon as he lands and as soon as he got in boom they called I went over to the White House would they snuck me in got to the White House and the president I walked in give me a hug he said I'm looking for a secretary of homeland you want it I said yes sir he said sit down he said I want to tell you why you're picked and that was it so in that moment when you're going through that decision this is this is not a regular position now you've been commissioner of a New York correction Commissioner of NYPD sat in the chair with Saddam Hussein you've had some interesting experiences there and now you're being called by the President to say here's Homeland Security it's your job while you're going through that and I'm talking to scar Moochie earlier are you sitting there thinking about all the research due diligence everything that's about to happen and you're not thinking about that in that moment no got it so you're not thinking anyway I'm gonna do my job I'm gonna be called up on and I know how to handle this I'm the best guy if you're talking about the job I'm thinking about you know and I'm sure Anthony you know he's focused on the job you focus on the job you focus on what's gonna happen what do you have to do you know and in my mind I was four steps ahead that all right you know okay staffing agencies they you know I was I was there already in my head before I even talked to the president when I knew I was being considered I wasn't thinking about anything but how am I gonna do this and have as much success because I've had my whole career I've never failed ever in fact not only have I never failed I had enormous success I'm gonna do the same thing here so that's where my head is what you never realized what nobody realizes unless you are positioned for one of these jobs you come out of high school you go to college you go to law school you clerked for a federal judge you go to a major firm you become a US Attorney you become a judge and then you get a job and the whole time you're like mr. goody two-shoes right down the road until you get to where you're going if you've had a life getting these jobs are hard and I can remember there were times when I was actually being vetted we had a conference room in our office Giuliani and I it was it had to be 25 feet long 30 feet long major conference here in New York City Tom scored in that conference room on the conference table every set of taxes that I had since I was 18 years old on that table come on no I'm not joke every set of Terrace every tax this is before you take the job on once you took the job once you once you're in the process one so once you're gone except Homeland Security Homeland Security once you accept the nomination does the world know about it yet or not oh yeah they know okay president and that mean that's what everybody okay so from that point on you got a you know every speech you've ever get given every application you've ever filled out for a job every every taxes every year's taxes all this stuff you have to have I had a group of people sitting around there like lawyers and analysts and all these people just going through this stuff one thing after what are they looking for oh because of this one thing you should resign no because they're looking for inconsistencies there looking for I think most importantly what they're looking for are where could you get tripped up in Congress at a congressional hearing who's gonna not like your position got it that you said in this speech this thing who's not gonna like that and have a problem with it and what's ironic as I learned I'd say 90% of the people in Congress that would scrutinize me they could never even get my job they could never get that job of course they couldn't be vetted right they've never had an executive position they've been in politics the whole time they couldn't do it they can't do it which is kind of frustrating when you're going through this process especially when you flunk out of the process because you come to the realization that the people that scrutinized you or that had all this negative stuff to say about you they couldn't hold a candle to you let me ask you this so they're you know you this kind of takes me to you know the movie a few good men where the whole parts going back and forth then you can't handle the truth you want the truth you can't and then at the end he says you need me like you know like not everybody can do my job and so I'm sitting there and I'm like okay Code Red Code Red you know you got a Duke order but we don't put it in a manual that there's Code Red no one talks about it okay what they did to you know private such-and-such Santiago out I think that was a kid's name and then you sit down and say it has to be an sob to be able to run you know that camp to be able to do to work but here's you know that's a really really good point it's a really good point especially that thing you need me that's logic but that's not reality because those guys in Washington that'll give a damn really they don't give a damn but what are the links that came up what were the things so I read all of them I read every single one of the controversial stuff that came up on yeah I had a I had a Danny you had a nanny but okay I had that was what the 14 months that taxes weren't paid for her right that was 14 months or whatever the number was and I ironically what a lot of people don't know as soon as I was drew I actually I paid the taxes I paid the penalties I paid the fines you $220,000 and five whatever was yeah I forget what I paid all that stuff immediately after like in probably January February of five then there's all these investigations that start right and you start getting scrutinized the press is pushing one way the prosecutors are following up the press and they're feeding each other they feed each other so you go through this process where now it's no longer with the nanny anything you've ever done in your entire life that anybody has a problem with they have now crawled out from under a rock and they're making calls to every press yet about what was them like okay if you went to prison and you did three years I think a lot of people should be doing the same time as well and they have similar cases if not worse one of them was the one I pulled up that was the quarter-million by the Israeli businessman that give you a no interest free that's a completely false so that's what I read so I'm gonna kind of list some of them that I remember okay so now it's reported or which one I'm talking it's not it's reported it's on Wikipedia and for some reason they refused to pull it off I can't figure out why an Israeli businessman give me an interest-free loan that I never paid back and I was charged with a bribe and bribe receiving that's what it says on Wikipedia bottom line is there was no interest-free loan it was a personal loan I paid interest I was not charged with bribery and there was no bribery charges okay so that's number one so put that a sign okay but here's here's why that became an issue because that loan that he lent me was actually when I went to Iraq I was built in a house and I was built I didn't know how much time I was gonna be in Iraq I was building a house I was making a really good a lot of money and I needed to make sure that while I was gone I'm gonna be making a hundred forty thousand a year now and I was a majorette amazing this is this is o3o so this this is this is post you being the CEO of a Giuliani's company it was government during that time during that time is that you started your own or is it you know joining as a CEO Rudy Giuliani's karate I got it so I know you left afterwards you started some contracts three we're working together got it I get a call from the White House to go to Iraq I said yes when I said yes I have to accept their salary so I go from making a million dollars a year to make an owner of 40,000 a year so I want to make sure that I can finish my house yeah I borrow 250,000 from a friend and I go about my business on the conflict of interest or on the financial disclosure I don't even remember what it was one of them when my accountants and my staff we started filling out all the stuff because they didn't make monthly payments on this thing on this loan it was just a personal loan that I was gonna pay back we didn't put it on the conflict of interest report that was a federal charge that is a federal charge yeah it's full statement or I've gotten whatever it's a federal charge okay fair enough so that's one the nanny remember I said I paid the taxes I paid the fines that paid the months but okay so listen six counts is that a troll charge though yes the nanny is a federal charges and they charge me now was they considered two years right that I had the nanny okay so to you two counts of failing to pay payroll tax two counts of failing to put it on my IRS documents and two counts of failing to tell my tax preparer so for the nanny that I paid cash six federal counts they charge me I Got News for you I challenge you I challenge you to go in any court docket in this country and see where they've done that to anybody else in the country never happens so let me ask you another question here on that the part with Karl Rove I don't know how you feel about Karl Rove and I don't know your relationship with them the other part where you read about him and say well this was a way that Karl Rove brought you in to taint you indirectly to change Rudy said that's nonsense so you're not you're not putting any value behind that one okay so you're not even saying that that's the summit for the nomination for so mayor Giuliani wouldn't get the next nomination No okay got it so now so this happens you go up you apologize you say you let the people down you all you said is please allow me to come back and be able to spend time with my wife and kids the sooner I can do that allow me that but you didn't go out there and say denyin yeah but you just kind of said hey if I did it I yeah I'll deal with it yeah so okay and that reminds me of a scene from Judge which I don't know if you've seen a movie the judge with Robert Duvall I don't know if you've seen it or not the end scene you got to see it's a very unique especially you I think you would really appreciate the ending of that movie it's with Robert Downey jr. and Duvall and if you know Duvall obviously you know Godfather you would love to vol I or handles it he said if I did the crime I want to pay for it because I've been a judge for the last 42 years if I did it I did it so now you go and you do three years you come out that entire process that happens pretty fast right when you go through that what are you now thinking yourself that you're out you know and what what did that time that you did in prison what did that do to you did that help you think about what I'm thinking it's not only it's not only the time in prison it's from the beginning of the process to the time I came home it's all one it's all one because it's it's like this blur of it's a blur of stuff that you go through that you never expected to go through how do you get targeted huh you know really are they attacking me because of this nanny thing really you know they're gonna charge me for this you know not having the loan on a financial disclosure why did you say yeah I did the crime if I did it you know I have to do face to crime well I'll tell you why first of all when you are fighting federal criminal charges it's a fight for your life literally it's a fight for your life because that felony conviction is a life sentence of collateral consequence that's gonna crucify you personally financially and professionally so that that's number one if you fight it if you say I didn't do it is that is that what the fight is or or you can't win you can't win you only have the constitutional rights you think you have if you have the money to pay for them how much influence did mayor Giuliani or President Bush have at the time to be able to help you with that the only one that could have helped me was President Bush why didn't he most of them will not what why not don't he he nominee he brought you up it doesn't make any difference yeah any hard feelings about that at all I get it most politicians don't have the courage to stand up and say this is wrong was there any motive behind it or was it just just you know no no no they just don't have the character practices you can't fight the US government unless you are a multi multi-millionaire or being here you just can't and I'll explain why during the whole course of this thing from 2006 to 2009 you really go back to oh five oh five two oh nine I was averaging legal bills of about a hundred thousand a month a hundred thousand then closer to the end we're up to an or fifty month so in October of 2009 I was remanded the judge didn't like the fact in my case my attorney one of my attorneys he sent an email to the Washington Times and he said be in court on this day because we found prosecutorial misconduct we found the government suppress evidence they suborn perjury found all this stuff be in court on that day well the judge found out when he found out instead of addressing it he remanded me revoke my bail put me in jail and told me he's gonna suspend my attorneys again for the third time well at this point I'm out of money I can't keep doing I can't you can't keep doing this in an October of night of 2009 in that month that I was remanded my legal bill for one month was for a month 30 days my legal bill was four hundred seventy six thousand dollars how do you how do you fight that how do you do that and at that point I told my attorneys I said go see the prosecutors so I quit I'll take a plea tell me what I'm pleading to I'll plead whatever they want I can't do this anymore because my wife and kids are gonna live in the street if I keep doing it that is the problem with the federal system and that's being targeted when you get into the system and you see the flaws and failures and you see you know I thought it was just me let me ask you this other question you know I had I have friends who were cops when I got out of the military a lot of people become cops you know the whole thing is when you get out of the UN Fort Bragg go be a cop you know go be fire about it go be ups you'll get ten points you get whatever that runs on your score so my friends want to be cops and I would ask myself so tell me what is it a be a cop and one of my friends got kicked out of being a PD himself so one day I'm sitting I said so tell me what happened and you know how there's like different stories there's a one story which is what man I just did what everybody else was doing and I said yeah but what happened three months later six months or 12 months I mean this is my body this is my we're hanging out together I mean he would tell you the story right now himself I will tell you one thing that happened so for him what he was doing was he was doing steroids and was selling steroids to other cops ain't no cops do that a lot it's a it's a whole different thing he said the one thing that happened with me is I really started thinking I'm above the law and I started using some of my power against civilians and I started feeling within my family I started feeling on my wife with my mom and dad with my siblings my peers I felt like I was above the law because you can say anything to me because I have the badge and it was an LAPD guy and that badge gave me a lot of power right so do you think sometimes maybe even yourself or your career because you're looking back right now reflecting right like for me when I sit back and I reflect in my life and I say okay I live in Iran we were bombed on it was a very difficult time for me as a kid my parents got a divorce had very bipolar type of people in my life that were complicated and not the loving most incredible you know experience that you wanted then boom we live in a refugee camp I get stabbed at 12 years old at the refugee camp I come to the states I go to high school have a one point oh GPA now in my life it's been a pretty you know a mother sad communist outside imperialist like it's a lot of mess that around through right so I don't have a degree I don't have a four-year two-year degree and I go back I think about what could I have done differently in this to mistake I mean that when you go back yourself did you see some trends where you were kind of like I can get away with this because I'm such and such not at all no zero no at all no you're not thinking I wasn't thinking I did anything wrong in fact most of the counts that I pled guilty to that I actually pled guilty to they were accounting issues is that my accountants dealt with I didn't really I didn't fill out my taxes I didn't do that so how do you live today with all that like is there any bitterness and you're like you know knowing how much more you could have contributed as you know service is there anything where you could say I could have done this differently because it sounds like you don't have yeah you know what I could have done differently I could have you know I could have I could have been you know the goody two-shoes you know gone to school and you know clerk for the judge and gone to law school and all this stuff I could have done that and I could have gone that route but I didn't and you know I personally think I'm satisfied with what I've done for this country you know I'm sorry this stuff happened the way it happened if I could have done something differently that I thought of at the time more than let's let's wrap up with this final talk I was in UK last week and I was interviewing a few people and we talked about the resi is a recidivism rate right and the numbers came up for America right right and I think u.s. is 56 percent after 56 percent of inmates go back a year later 67 percent three years later but 76 percent five years later right like the system is created to get you to go back into prison if that makes any sense right so you know that's how the system is set up what do you think about the current system that we have ourselves and if there was anything you would change with the current system we have a lot of people in prison that sold weed or you know you know that's nothing like you know major but they're still in prison nowadays and it's a pretty high cost I think the number I saw was like 76 billion dollars Larry the prison's system the criminal justice system in America is horrendous it's horrible it's horrible for a number of reasons one we put people in prison that shouldn't be there Prison is for bad guys bad guys do bad things prison is for people that you want to protect society from that's what prison should be for that's what it was originally we ate it for that's not what we use it for we put commercial fishermen a quart too many fish in prison somebody sells a whale's tooth on an eBay we put him in prison we take a young black kid that sells three dime bags of marijuana and we charge him federally and given 55 years are you kidding that's crazy to me that's insane so what do you do what it's saying well you do what I've done for the last five years since I get out you fight Congress who I think is completely inept most of the time you fight them to change you fight them to create change we're sitting right now on a historic piece of legislation that I think is gonna be it's gonna be voted on within the next two days is this the email you were talking about there you got first step back yeah got it right I've been I've been pushing this for five years but this is only a small part of the criminal justice system you can't put people in prison suck all the societal values out of them institutionalize them turn them into monsters and think you're gonna send them home and everything's gonna be okay it's not that's why that recidivism rates so damn high because we're not doing anything for him you have to do some if you're gonna put him in prison and you're gonna destroy their lives well then at least do something so that when they get home they can get a job a real job did then go to work take care of the family take care of their kids pay taxes because as it stands right now we don't do none of that you know if you're watching this right now obviously if you're as enamored by the story that Bernard Kerik has with the different experiences he's had and you know what he's had to done as I am I'd love to hear your thoughts on what we're talking about here at the end so what do you comment here or you send me a tweet I Patrick Lee are you on Twitter as well or no what's your Twitter handle you're not a charity okay tweet us at Patrick mid David or Bernard Kerik and let us know what you took away from today's interview because for me it's a lot of connecting the dots with all these different stories and I hope you go in a direction where something happens with this because at this pace you're getting young boys and young you know that are making mistakes that ruins the rest of their lives and they're going into prison alone and given others a life sentence it's a life saying I see had a lot of collateral consequence you know that they can't get out from under yeah but I want to hear from you I'm Kirsten what you think about it again Bernard Kerik sir thank you so much thank you to get somebody Taemin thank you at your time thank you yes

Channel: Valuetainment

Views: 90,073

Rating: 4.7987189 out of 5

Keywords: Entrepreneur, Entrepreneurs, Entrepreneurship, Entrepreneur Motivation, Entrepreneur Advice, Startup Entrepreneurs, valuetainment, patrick bet david

Id: tkOt2r8lXf8

Length: 73min 57sec (4437 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 17 2019