Asmongold Reacts to WoW's Most Controversial Video

i love these videos because like himared takes a topic that's like so universally so this is a video it's called borrowed power is actually fun borrowed power is actually fun so we're gonna watch this video and we're gonna see what he's got to say borrowed power is a term for abilities that you do not get from simply leveling up and have a shelf life where eventually you'll lose those powers sometimes you lose them after a single raid tier other times it takes a whole expansion before they go away but you'll lose case you know they're temporary and they also increase the power level of your character in the world of warcraft community borrowed power is usually used as a derogatory term when describing any new system or features that are being announced and you can't really blame them when you look at the history of how poorly major borrowed power systems have been implemented but borrowed power inherently is pretty fun and should not be a cause of dread if a new feature announced happens to have some form of borrow power in it when it comes to borrowed power world of warcraft there's actually a very long history of different forms of them one of the longest like everything yeah he's about to say tier sets right lasting ones is simply gear gear that has higher stats makes your oh i mean like yeah obviously right but like the thing is like yeah gear and like all this stuff is like totally uh all that that's borrow power right zero arguments it's just for fun well let's see what he has to say okay let's see what he's got to say we're not going to write it off quite yet okay tier is the apex of borah power absolutely it is i don't think borrowed power this is what what happens in like the wow community is like once something becomes a term that's bad then anything that can fit into that thing that's bad that terminology is then also bad but i think there's no nuance to it as well like some borrowed power probably is okay i don't mind it hunger but you replaced that with stronger gear during the next patch or expansion there's also a glyph system that existed for a few expansions which allowed you to modify a couple of your abilities glitz were rather simple to customize you could just buy them off the auction house and for a time when you had a glyph you had the powers forever as we get to mr pandaria they experimented with a whole bunch of different minor power gains that you accumulated over the course of the expansion in the form of the legendary cloak quest line which eventually gave you a legendary cloak with a special ability on it legendary meta gems that gave you a really powerful buff and even shaw touched weapons at the beginning of the expansion which they kind of abandoned in what was the draenor they had a very simple system of draenor perks which you got by just leveling up normally and kept for the entire expansion without any other kind of fuss with the intentions they were obviously temporary because they were called draenor perks in addition to a legendary ring that gave you a bloodlust like ability at the end of the expansion then in legion we got one of the biggest systems of that's the legion of legendaries and also the artifacts were too bad both of these things vastly increased the power level of your character and required all kinds of grinding in order to obtain there was so much grinding in fact that blizzard tried to alleviate some of this with their next system the azerite pieces which require just as much grinding while providing less power upgrades then there was the caption system corruptions and finally shadow lands with their soul binds conduits and covenant oh yeah all these right up into legion the borrowed power systems were kind of accepted and didn't really draw too much ire from the community i still like i don't know about that i feel like people didn't like the artifact weapons a lot they complained about all of those systems what do you mean yeah they were well liked people [ __ ] hated those i think the only one that people didn't mind was like the legendary cloak people didn't care about that but there were people that did i remember there were people that were like they were exclusively they're like i don't do pvp in this game i ain't gonna do that not one bit you can't make me do it because there was one part of the quest where you had to get two wins in a battleground and there were people that simply refused to get their legendary cloak because they had to play two battlegrounds yep he said up until legion okay i didn't hear that part what exactly was the main difference before that point tier set bonuses are a form of borrowed power that everybody loves exactly as the right pieces of equipment are universally hated despite the fact they kind of do the same thing let's take a look at another video game the metroid series sure in this game you go around and explore in order to gather powerful upgrades which allow you to progress past new stages or defeat certain bosses which are unkillable without a certain upgrade and at the start of the game you're incredibly weak as a base character but by the end of the game you're literally jumping through enemies as they explode by just touching you the power increase is massive which is fine for a single player game but the game series also tells a continuous story with the same character going to new locations where you're fighting bosses and every time you go to a new location they have to explain why you don't have your god-like powers anymore at the start of your new location and there's a different explanation for literally every single game sometimes you get into an accident which just absorbs everything and sometimes you simply get stranded in a place without any of your upgrades equipped whatever the case they make you go through the game in order to find everything again and the majority of the time you're getting a lot of the same abilities that you've already obtained in previous games and the gameplay for this is an entirely new game and spawned a successful franchise and even a video game genre absolutely there's a term for a type of game like this called metroidvania because castlevania does a similar thing with their games and a lot of the metroidvania games just to have characters go through the game slowly acquiring powerful upgrades that way they can become godlike characters towards the end and it's the contrast of starting out weak and then eventually becoming powerful that makes those games really fun yeah then you kind of just steamroll through everything yeah which doesn't really present a real challenge and a lot of the fun in video games is overcoming those challenges as seen by the success and the popularity of from soft games which are notoriously difficult with all those powerful upgrades from the end game and blow through everything it feels a lot more earned rather than if you just started like that from the start and world of warcraft also has i think that's true yeah you can't have people start off like literal gods because then where are they gonna go i i think that's an issue with a lot of games and like i think a game like i remember godfall had this problem it's like i started off and i felt like i was playing my character and i was already with like really good girls a badass like with lost ark i feel like you you progressively make your character more and more powerful over time and legion you progressively made your character more and more powerful over time and you would like unlock these abilities and these items or like whatever and it would just make you like that much better and that much stronger times like this when you start up in a new expansion you start doing daily quests or world quests it actually takes you a bit of time in order to accomplish them with a fresh character but as soon as you clear the newest raid and get a full set of equipment and you go back and do those same daily or world quests again you can blast through them way quicker than normal yeah and a lot of people don't want to admit this but being able to do your world quest faster because of better gear is an enjoyable part of getting gear in the first place who the [ __ ] doesn't want to admit that who the [ __ ] doesn't want to admit that that's the best part is like whenever dude it was the best part like you would get all the gear and you would be able to solo the world quest group mobs or like my favorite thing was whenever it was like you had to kill 12 mobs and you grouped up 20 of them you pit one ability and they all were like and they die that's the best part about the whole thing especially for capital players there are some people who pay for people bitching about how easy world quests got at the end of legion no i do not remember that i don't remember how people bitching about world quests at the end of legion because if you were still doing them then it's like why are you complaining about this you can do whatever you want yeah people always the thing is like this is what i said before right is people are going to find something to complain about no matter what it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what you do somebody is going to be upset if you cure cancer doctors are going to get put out of a job it doesn't matter what you do there will be somebody who is adversely affected if they give you gold bars people will complain they're too heavy there's no way that you can solve this problem it's not something you should do you should not base your decisions on like if somebody is going to complain or whatever are there question marks about this why why people question marketing like um what i said is complete made perfect sense yeah i made perfect sense boost just so they can solo farm easier with better gear and obviously you can go into low-level zones and destroy low-level mods with one hit but it doesn't really have the same impact as doing that in a metroid game there is a really big difference between a metroid game though and an ibm like world of warcraft right when it comes to these borrowed powers and the amount of time it takes to level a new character in a new expansion from 50 to 60 you could have been a whole metroid game in that exact same time frame the amount of time it takes you to beat a metroid game is around under four hours and under two hours if you speed run it the amount of time it takes a new character to max level in a new expansion is way more than that yeah and when you finally get to max level you're barely at the start of your grind rather than already being a godlike character which is why everybody is fine with metroid games resetting your character's progress every game because you get really great upgrades pretty frequently and you almost i think that's actually a really good point because like i was thinking about another example of this is path of exile it's like poe has this problem too is it like path of exile they reset your progress about like every four months or so but it only takes about a week or so or maybe two weeks to like really get caught up all the way to where it's like yeah obviously you're not as good as you probably were whenever you ended the last league but you're at least like on an even keel like you're able to do tier 16 maps you're able to do like shaper and like some other stuff too at that point and like that's what's good is that like if you want people to repeat content you can't make the content take too long and even what happened is like this is what they changed recently in path of exile is like people said like well [ __ ] you know every new league now we have to refarm out all these atlases the conquerors like all this other [ __ ] and like then poe redesigned it because they realized that the amount of mandatory activities you had to do was too high which is a good thing stay without a new upgrade after over an hour of play whereas you could play for days at a time world of warcraft every day and not receive a single upgrade this is likely where a lot of frustration stems when it comes to borrowed power when it comes to raid drop legendaries trinkets and tear set bonuses everybody usually likes these things but when it comes to azerite gear corruptions or covenant abilities they're met with widespread hate and derision and we can kind of draw a parallel between why people like some forms of borrowed power and why people probably don't like others if we take i think the big reason why is because the friction be like how long it takes to max them out how long they will last and also like with covenants is the friction between choosing the different forms of them so like for example if covenants came out at the beginning of shadow ends the way that they are right now in the game i think people would be generally fine with it really they would be pretty much fine with it be like okay so like yeah we can just choose whichever ability set we want to have and we can just change whatever we want okay that's cool so it's like a new talent set all right nice and so like that would be cool so like right now it's all right but the problem is that like at the beginning there was so much friction between making that decision then it sucks when max has the same stance yeah exactly and i think most people do because the borrowed power is not the problem it's the artificial friction that's created between the different borrowed power systems in order to get you to commit to playing one way i think that's the worst thing look at rate drop legendary strength goods and tears bonuses a lot of these are just random drops from bosses and rates yeah and you can get lucky and get a full set of them within the first week of a new ray dropping if you take a look at a graph of azerite gear corrupt here's the thing right there's like one month this was like kind of not oh raid legendaries never mind sorry i i misunderstood this you can get a full set of them within the first week of it if you take a look at a graph of azerite gear corruptions or soul binds and the amount of time it takes to get those to an appropriate level that's usable there is a huge disparity of just time versus effort if you get the slovanna's bow or you got the blades of azeroth you were pretty much good to go you're good if you got deathbringer's will from icc and wrath i never got it you got a huge ridiculous power increase from you never [ __ ] got it when you finally get your 4 set bonus your damage would definitely pop off but when you got an azerite piece you might not even be able to use it yet you might have to wait the azerite so again the azerite pieces were again artificial friction artificial fiction azerite was not the problem the problem with azerite was the fact that you needed five different pieces and you couldn't respect them whenever you wanted if you were able to respect azerite the second that you wanted on the fly whenever you needed to people would have been out you know it's annoying but it is what it is right it would have been way better and again i think the problem is not even the systems themselves it's the like choosing between them and being able to do what you want inside of the systems it's really the issue this system on a fundamental level i think is totally fine azerite gear i thought was interesting in certain ways and i actually didn't completely hate azerite gear but i felt that the way that you had to make decisions and you couldn't use the same piece for two different specs unless you wanted to spend a lot of gold like it's just why is this in the game how does this and like this is another thing is i think with wild players more and more people are asking the question how is this making the game better and i think that more and more the realization is that it's not this is not making the game this is not improving the gameplay experience yeah it's not yeah it's just making the game worse so why is it in the game remember ian said the respect cost for azerite was bad and then did nothing i saw that and like that's the kind of stuff that pissed me off i was so [ __ ] mad about that he's like ian even said he's like yeah obviously the resource you know that the gold costs in azerite gear is bad uh you know like it's it's a big problem you know how much it costs it's like um ian what is your job title again wait a second so so but but why then wha what's the what why what but but why don't you just just delete the number you said why don't you fix it just get rid of it and like the thing is in shadow ends that's what they did do you remember back whenever shadow ends they have this big issue with conduit energy and they're like well we can't just get rid of conduit energy if we get rid of conduit energy everybody's just going to be changing our conduits all the time it's going to be [ __ ] madness it's good it's going to help this to be too much but it's change of conduits over and over and over and over and over again it's like oh my god and then you know what they did they just added in a quick fix you know what the quick fix was all of your conduit energy resets every single day and this is going to be in the game until we actually have the hotfix out or the patch out to completely fix it and that actually restored so much faith that i had in blizzard because they said we know this is unfun we know you don't want to wait for the patch so we're adding in a you know basically a stop gap solution that's going to work for like literally pretty much everybody yeah faith no it was a good decision here's the thing to be fair it wasn't argument well no what i'm saying is it's ego like you have to admit yeah they were able to apply a band-aid solution that solved the problem until they completely got rid of it we told them in alpha yes i know that but what i'm saying is like blizzard recently and i actually think that there is an exception to this the catalyst converter and this is the tier set converter for uh for for a gear now uh did not go into the game until tomorrow i think it's like tomorrow or the next day or like it's like this this coming week i'm pretty sure um why not the creation catalyst yeah why not just have it a week after the game comes out we want people to farm out their tear sets on the raids no it just sucks like that's one thing that i feel like players should really push back on with the next expansion is uh they should push back on the idea that you have to wait for a system to be bad and then for it to be good the system should be immediately good instantaneously on release if there is an obvious improvement for the system or an obvious uh quality of life feature that is being held back for an arbitrary amount of time just to for for some [ __ ] goal that has nothing to do with player enjoyment then i don't want to deal with that anymore like i i don't i don't care about i don't care about world first raiders it doesn't matter like it doesn't it does i don't i don't i don't want to have the game designed around that i don't care about this at all like it just doesn't matter like just make the game good for weeks in order for the azerite research to come up and then you'd finally be able to use that piece of equipment yeah when you got corruptions you'd only be able to use a single one because you had to wait for your corruption resistance to increase gradually over time with no way to decrease the timers then also you had to get lucky that you even got the right corruption that you wanted because there was a hot take corruption resistance increasing over time i thought was good i thought it was good work just like the icc buff gives you things to look forward to and your character gradually gets more powerful totally [ __ ] fine with it 100 extra layer of rng on top of the rng until they added in a vendor which allowed you to maybe buy the one you wanted if you stayed up for weeks and of course the vendor was actually carrying the what you wanted and for soul bindings you just had just the vendor the i feel like the the corruption vendor being on a rotation i every single player should have quit the game that day they should have just quit the game immediately unsubbed and said this is ridiculous i'm not going to do this like this is it's absolutely ridiculous yeah like i i think that like a hundred percent if they try to pull this [ __ ] on us again next expansion everybody should unsub everybody should unsub stop playing the game like do not allow yourself to get [ __ ] around again until the artificial time gate was up for you to finally have the max level of it and get the full potential out of your new covenant abilities which overall provided a pretty minor power boost if we look at a graph of pieces of power upgrades that people like compared to one that people's disliked based on time required to obtain it's pretty obvious to see the difference between them despite i don't think that's the entire story because like the netherlight crucible for example you you unlocked that within less than a month like it was very very fast it was just unnecessary and nobody cared about it so i don't think it's entirely because of the time frame i think that it's also because of just the impact of the system and how fun it is to play you people are going to buy the next expansion we're all idiots absolutely we're going to buy the next expansion release i know i will yeah 100 uh wow expansions are i mean it's worth 40 bucks sure 50 bucks so the sub for the month yeah absolutely it's good for that time and then you know keep playing it if you don't like it or if you do like it you know keep playing it if you do and don't just unsub the fact they both give around the same amount of power increases the amount of time required to get one is just vastly higher than getting the others and the amount of time it takes to get a power increase drastically lowers the likability of said power increase what if i were to tell you that azerite gear is actually better than tier side bonuses a tier side bonus gives you two power increases based on the two set and four set you don't get to pick what those increases are you just have to get lucky that the devs happen to give you a good one for them you don't get to pick the azerite either there's the azurite that makes you do 5000 extra dps and the azerite that makes you do 400 extra dps that is not a choice also tier sets dynamically change their bonuses based off of your spec azerite gear does not an expansion but with azerite gear you get to pick what bonuses you want instead of leaving it up to the random whims of the devs where you get to pick a choice of random whims of the devs and these choices give you about the same amount of power increases at the tier set bonuses anyway you know why the legion legendaries were better than azerite it's because they gave you bonuses that really mattered all of the azerite bonuses that you got were pretty much mediocre it was like oh wow thunderclap the 20 more damage oh who gives a [ __ ] bro if you had the legion legendaries and you had the for those [ __ ] boots aggramar stride you're running like you're in the olympics if you're using the bracers you're healing like you're a [ __ ] priest if you're using the uh the gloves in the ring you were doing more damage than [ __ ] anybody it's the reason why the legion legendaries were so good is because they were really big dick they were big dick items and you would swap them around like a lot of you guys in a lot of cases like correct me if i'm wrong but i feel like this is what i did at least is i carried a lot of my legion legendaries around with me because sometimes like i'd want to use the whirlwind bell if i was doing a lot of aoe sometimes i'd want to use another item if i was doing something else instead right so you had a lot of things every legendary legion had a situational advantage exactly and like the situational advantages the legendaries gave you made the game more interesting but the problem with azerite gear is that every single every single azerite gear thing just made your big damage bigger that's all it did very few azerite traits really change your gameplay in a meaningful way and allows you to even customize it first stacking the ones you like or mix and match a whole bunch of minor benefits that might improve how you play your class then you also get a couple of the minor benefits too like a little bit of extra healing a little bit of extra movement speed or maybe even a small upgrade to some of your minor baseline abilities all these little minor things so just little minor increase to your personal healing just a little minor and increase your absorbs just a little minor increase to your absorbs just another little minor decreased damage taken and then surprise surprise you do arena and each game lasts 15 [ __ ] minutes do you remember that remember that bfa you'd go watch the awc and there was like it would be on for 11 hours holy [ __ ] when it comes to the amount of powers you get from azerite gear when compared to a tier set bonus being able to choose which of your minor bonuses from a piece of equipment is better than not having a choice at all however the acquisition of azerite gear was 10 times worse than tier set bonuses and required getting a whole bunch of pieces of equipment to maybe get the azerite gear you wanted which had the traits that you wanted to pick from since each piece of azerite gear only let you choose from a very small handful of traits rather than having all of them available as an option and then when a new raid came out you wouldn't even be able to use all those traits and you had to go grind out more azerite power i had no problem with certain items having different traits on them i thought that was totally [ __ ] fine the only thing that i really had a problem with for azerite gear was the fact that you couldn't respect it for free i think that if you were able to respect it for free it would have been pretty much fine and to top it all off it took just as much time to get one as a right piece as a piece of tier gear azerite gear is just a really good example of how not to add a borrowed power system yeah because everything was there for to be a better replacement to tear gear but instead they had to make it incredibly tedious for no reason and because it was added in so badly you were just mad they had to deal with this new system instead of just getting tear set bonuses like normal when it comes to corruption it was also that the it was a waste of time like having to having to respect it like that and farm out the same piece of gear twice that's a waste of time i think that people like in general now especially now that like people are aware of it it's like that quote that we saw right about how you can't see the same illusion a few times and still you know have the same wonder the first time people now are aware of these kinds of things and because they're so aware of them whenever it's seen they immediately identify it and dislike it a system that was added at the very end of battle over azeroth which probably had one of the biggest power climbs in player power in the game's history personally i was a big fan of the overall idea of corruptions they were basically in chance for gear that gave you props that could do more damage in your baseline abilities and again corruptions were cool because they were a big dick they were [ __ ] massive they were probably one of the biggest power increases we've ever gotten like full twilight devastation infinite stars they were huge it completely changed the way you played uh amp back thanks for five subs i appreciate that thank you very much or vastly increase the power level of your base class some of them would give you ridiculous amounts of haste others would lower the cooldowns of your abilities by 200 percent and others which spawned giants laser beams from the sky that would scale based on how much health you had and being able to customize how you wanted to be broken was such an interesting idea in theory that i implemented a sister this into one of my dungeons and dragons games however i can assure you that i did not implement how you obtained corruptions into the game yes because it just has a right dick was terrible most corruptions had three different tiers to them and each piece of gear could have a chance to have a random piece of corruption on it or if you managed to get the one you wanted you kind of hoped you had the highest available tier that corruption otherwise you're kind of just wasting a piece of equipment with that corruption on it and when they finally added a vendor that allowed you to target specific pieces of corruptions they didn't let you pick from all the corruption pieces in the vendor and instead had a random rotation that changed out a few times a week thank you you had to wait around for a chance to buy the corruption that you wanted and also they made the corruptions that were good and incredibly expensive so you couldn't buy everything you needed the first time the vendor had the stuff you wanted yeah and still had to wait a couple of weeks if you wanted to talk about poorly implemented borrowed power systems we have to look at legion for the absolute worst legion was the first expansion that started with a more in-your-face borrowed power system with the artifacts and legion legends they had like three that's the thing it's like legion had like tier sets they had uh legendaries they had your uh the [ __ ] what was the other thing your artifact weapon there was a lot it was the best yeah it was good but i think a lot of people whenever they're thinking like oh i really like legion you're mainly thinking of like tomb of sargeras and probably also antorus whenever a lot of these problems were solved because at the beginning of legion it was really shitty nighthold man okay how many of you guys are talking about how much you like the nighthold and you had your best in slot legendaries yes nighthold was awesome i really like nighthold a lot but i think that your enjoyment of the game was very hinged on the fact that you had or did not have the random items the artifacts were fine in my opinion they had a system of endless grinding that could increase your power level further but there wasn't really inherent randomness to it because you just kind of got what you got but the legion legendaries were awful the legion legendaries were modeled very heavily based on diablo 3's legendary system where sometimes a legendary can completely change your playstyle or is necessary in order to complete a build whereas diablo has a seasonal gameplay mode and allows you to gain these legendaries much quicker you can pretty much get all legendaries needed within your first day almost also that like nobody likes playing diablo 3 anymore the game's [ __ ] dead the game's been [ __ ] dead for years like diablo 3 hasn't been relevant ever since like 2016. it's awful season whereas for world of warcraft legendaries didn't have the same gracious drop chance the first four legendaries you got had a much higher chance to drop than everything else but could still take about a month of casual play time before you saw your first four legendaries yeah the world first raiders would create multiple copies of their choice to farm out the first four legendaries just to get a higher chance of obtaining the ones that they were targeting as some of the legendaries were so ridiculously powerful and broken that it could almost double the amount of damage you do the fire will allow you to one shot groups of enemy players in the open world so you really wanted to target specific legendaries yeah in diablo they don't really allow you to target specific legendaries either but there's plenty of different ways in order to increase the chances that you get a specific one and unless you're terribly unlucky you'll have all the legendaries you need within the first couple of days in world of warcraft it was possible to go to the end of the ray tear without getting the one legendary you needed because the drop chance was just so low and there was absolutely oh this happened to people like i knew people that lost their raid spot because they didn't have the legendary like they didn't have the the legendary that was good and so they just simply didn't they just didn't get a spot because the other person did and the other person did more damage and then why would you ever bring somebody that doesn't do more damage it doesn't make any sense uh amp pack thanks for five more subs thank you thank you thank you and uh yeah it's like why would you do that and uh willingly handicapped the whole raid just because of you know the game that's not your fault yeah so it's like th that this system was probably the worst idea they ever had no way to target the license if you wanted the powers tied to legendaries were amazing the acquisition of it was probably the worst one we've ever seen yes and it kind of puts corruption to shame if there was an award for the worst implemented acquisition system of a borrowed power i can't think of anything that beats legion legendaries um corruption versus legion legendaries on release oh that is hard it's like uh wow i actually don't know like jesus i i feel like he could actually be right the end of the expansion they finally added a vendor to buy them but at that point it was a little bit too late because most people who played the whole expansion had already gotten all the legendaries by that point so you may be thinking at this point youtuber person everything you're talking about makes it seem as if borrowed power is terrible if blizzard messes it up every time they try to put one in maybe doesn't that mean it's actually just a bad design system overall and to that i say maybe maybe blizzard really just doesn't know how to actually add fun bar and power systems to the game and maybe i think the fundamental problem is that blizzard thinks that the players don't know what they want that's what the issue is is they think players don't know what they want and because the players don't know what they want blizzard thinks that they do know what they want and this is even ian literally said this with azerite gear he says well the players will like it once they understand it which implies the players just don't understand it and they believe that the players don't understand it i think the truth is what it is like just in general is that players do understand it and i think that it even feels worse it's like it's one thing if you just release something and there's no ptr and it doesn't go over very well but it's another thing to release something even after everybody tells you this sucks dick stop doing this and then you just go along with it anyway that's what pisses people off that much yeah and uh blizzard's too busy no no that that's that's not it right they shouldn't be bad with us i think that it's blizzard it feels like they understand what players want better than players do and to be fair game developers should because there are a lot of times that players like i think this is the best example right so blizzard actually solved this problem really really well once and um the one time that they did is that in season three of bfa every single mdi team and every single competitive mythic plus team almost all of them had at least one two and sometimes even three rogues in them so they could use shroud of concealment to skip trash packs over and over and over so there was a lot of conversations then about well you know like we have this huge problem where rogues are basically mandatory people are saying that get rid of and what people wanted to have happen a lot of people said get rid of shroud of concealment make it to where you can only have one of each class in the uh in the game right or in mythic plus and blizzard actually solved this in a brilliant way with the awakening affix that allowed you to effectively skip however many packs that you want while you're in a twilight zone fighting a mob and then completely avoid the issue with having to replace rogues because like now you don't need rogues anymore because everybody's can skip ahead it was brilliant and that's the kind of game design decisions that good developers and good designers make because i actually think that a good factor of this is the a good thing of this is that players sometimes don't know what they want i think a good example of players not knowing what they want is mounts and new world mounts in new world will do literally nothing mountain new world will not even make the game fun in the slightest it will not change anything it doesn't matter whatsoever what the people really want they want better travel options people want better travel options and less friction between travel and that is what the problem is mounts are just the most obvious way to solve that uh what if you can fight on mounts like mounts i don't think that's the fundamental problem though i think if you added in mounts it would be a band-aid solution yes it would make the problem slightly less bad but it would not solve the problem and if you can't even identify what people don't like how could you even possibly try to fix it yeah does that make sense give the people what they need not what they want exactly that's exactly what i'm saying they should just leave it on gear only although if we look at one of the expansions with two of the worst implemented borrow power systems we also randomly have one of the best as well and of course what i'm talking about is the battle for azeroth with its essence system with essences you got around 10 different abilities you could pick from i thought essences were great i know people are going to hate me for this but i thought essences were great i really liked the essence system i thought it was really good i'm in order to use as your active ability and then you also had three slots in order to use the passives of other abilities so you got to pick and choose which active abilities you were using and which passive abilities you were using and you got to change that out whenever you wanted in any kind of rest area exactly it was great why were people why do people not like it remember that essences weren't account wide absolutely dog [ __ ] complete dog [ __ ] they should have been account wide on day one totally agree with you okay so like i guess i'm a one character andy so that's probably why i was more okay with it if you were a one character andy i felt like the essence system was pretty good this is another thing i want to see with the new expansion is like if there's ever a point where i have to farm a monotonous borrowed power system twice i i'm going to be so mad like i'm going to be so [ __ ] frustrated having to farm a bar i just won't do it yeah i won't do it too like the thing is that's why i don't play any alts and shadow ants like i don't want to have to farm tour gas on my alts no no this is dumb not gonna do it uh do renown on my alts i don't wanna do it nope it's like oh it doesn't take that long nope well it only takes an hour nope nope make it account wide i'm not doing it that's it and there's literally no reason to tolerate that there is no reason even to waste people's time for an hour one hour is fine dude well if it only takes an hour then why does it happen at all think about it like this so like if this is such an important thing it's like oh wow but it only takes an hour just go do it well if it only takes an hour then why do you have to do it think about it like that it's kind of like a really good example of this is like the um so i never thought about things this way until somebody brought something up do you remember the chisel that you would need in uh patch 9.1 to remove the sanctum of domination sockets that you would buy from the vendor and corthia yeah you guys remember that right yeah yeah yeah so so so i mentioned this oh this is actually pretty good like you know now it makes it a lot easier so you don't have to worry about this and somebody in chat said well if all you need to do is buy the chisel why is it in the game like why why why is this a barrier that you need to overcome in the first place there's no reason for it acquiring all the abilities in your heart of azeroth could be done within the first week or two of the system dropping and if you want to grind out even further in order to increase the parallel them you could which was definitely necessary in order to reach rank three but i loved the rank four essence idea they like the capstone rewards for rank four essences and you had to get those and they were legendary essences and they looked way cooler but they were just cosmetic bonuses they were [ __ ] badass wanted to go even further beyond you got a nice cosmetic upgrade that just made the abilities look cooler without adding any kind of actual power increase i actually think that the azerite necklace was probably the best designed borrowed power that blizzard has ever made especially in terms of after bfa because after bfa you still want to use your azurite necklace and you will always use your azurite necklace outside of uh outside of current level content and here's why it's because it gives you um bonus damage oh that's fine right thanks a lot i appreciate that i hope you guys had fun at the razer thing i actually uh if it was if it was i i probably would have wanted to go to that to be honest it but i i know you guys probably just assumed i wouldn't want to but like did you guys get free stuff like how much stuff did you get like did you get like um did you get a laptop if you got a laptop make sure next time you go to the get go yeah you bring me one no they probably assumed i didn't want to go where i was screaming that day right that's why uh it's not like razer was like yeah um we want miss kiff s fan nick schlatt uh emmy techtone seer uh let's see uh bruce we have might as well have bruce uh we think we're missing anybody oh rich yeah we love rich rich is great um tips you can show up too that's great and uh that's that's about it all right yep okay we'll see you guys there you know that's that's not what happened okay guys that's not what happened uh but yeah either way that's the uh that's the way i see it i i'll probably have to go over there and see what it is i actually am very curious to see what the razer store is like and uh rich ego explored yeah yeah asman who yeah who's that what do you mean who's that but like yeah anyway so azerite necklace will always be your best and slot item outside of uh outside of shadowhands and do you want to know why it'll be a best-in-slot item it's because it gives you percentage bonuses and a and 15 percent at level in bfa is the same as 15 percent in shadow ants and i'll give you a really good parallel for this that's already happened before breston slot please and um another really good example of this is the uh what do you call it [ __ ] the scarab brooch so this was a trinket that dropped an aq40 and it dropped from vicidus in aq40 and you would use the trinket and it would make all of your heels for the next 15 seconds instead of healing it would give you an absorb shield and players use the aq40 trinket in icc to avoid the infest debuff on the lich king because it was a fifteen percent flat bonus that was [ __ ] bad ass i love that we've seen by the success of the mage tower adding a hard grind that only has a cosmetic reward is definitely the way to go there were a lot of people who tried to get the rank four of their essences even though it wasn't necessary in the slightest i got it if we contrast that to the shadowlands covenant everything they only allowed you to pick from one of four abilities and you were heavily disincentivized from changing your choice whereas the essence system allows you to pick from one of ten abilities and it was designed with the intention to do whatever you wanted if you want to swap your essences right now you swap your essences right now if you want to swap your essences again right after that do it right again right after that it doesn't matter there's no friction there's no problems you'd be changing the mount all the time now there were some problems with the essence system as well but for the most part it's one of the best modern power systems they've ever added to the game and it's a [ __ ] it was great and i i will argue this forever the essence system was a good system in bfa and overall patch 8.2 was one of the biggest w patches of all of wow 8.2 was unironically a massive w patch they just kind of ignored it in its lessons when going into the new expansion so if we go back and look at all of the borrowed power systems that players enjoyed or had the least amount of pushback by the community as a whole nearly all of them share the common sentimentality where they are easy to grind out or gave you lots of customization and the best had both of them with only one exception in the artifact weapon which was actually very well liked despite being a big grind and having no power customizations but was chock full of cosmetic customizations well people didn't like having to grind so like this is another factor like people don't remember anything like i i don't know why nobody [ __ ] remembers anything in this game like nobody even like it's like like so at 35 azerite sorry artifact traits you would gain a like a a a big bonus of 5 damage and that was necessary if you wanted to do trial of our mythic so you had people grinding maw of souls imagine what [ __ ] would go and grind maw of souls eight hours a day who would do such a thing and i didn't stop at 35 i went all the way to 54. i grinded out every single [ __ ] trait i had all of my bonus damage and it was it was glorious and beautiful it was absolutely amazing i would log on at like 1pm basically about this time under twitch and i would say all right guys who's ready and they're like oh no not again all right trick to gun let's get in discord let's run it again anybody got any nines there any nine more souls or quarter stars come on boys let's do it again and i would turn on the stream just to farm my viewers keys straight up straight up turn on the stream to farm viewer keys it was great nearly all of the ones that are universal no no it was not mo monday was this mom mondays small tuesdays my wednesdays my thursdays maybe i take friday off moss saturdays moss sundays and then you go back again to my mondays yeah that's it sounded like aids yeah but i beat it and it was done the thing is like yeah it was done i beat i beat it it was great the problem i think that with all these borrowed power systems like one of the underpinnings for this is like what people are saying about essences most of people's complaints about essences or that they weren't account wide like i actually wish that i could play my warlock right now but i simply refuse to do any of these secondary systems again i will not do them no no shot ain't no chance bro nope and i'm waiting for that to be done you don't need to yes you do absolutely i have to farm a noun my renown's not at 80. why is my renown not automatically at 80. why is it not at 80. does it start at 80 yeah i hate it either too much grinding in order to acquire it took months in order to unlock or heavily restricted how you could customize your ability nope id covenant locks and conduit energy now you may be since blizzard rarely gets it right with modern power systems shouldn't they just go back to pre-legion days where there were no temporary power systems added to the game when the game no no you have to have some temporary power systems or you have mr pandaria mr pandaria was garbage for uh for class design in a lot of ways it was great for people that were really good and it was awful for people who weren't because here's why here's why let's hear me out hear me out every class has a heel every class has a stun every class has an interrupt every class has a immunity that is garbage that's garbage like it was every class has like two cc's it was too much like there was so much homogenization like in my opinion i think that class design was at its best in three points in wow wrath of the lich king misa pandaria and legion wrath of the lich king was never classes felt complete misa pandaria was whenever you felt like an absolute god and i think that legion was in my opinion probably the best version i i do i think legion pretty much was the best absolutely uh bring back symbiosis yes get the [ __ ] that's just too much it's too [ __ ] much things being cataclysm oh cat please tell me how cataclysm was such great design whenever all of the class design decisions in cataclysm involved giving the classes the thing that the other classes had throw down for warriors who the [ __ ] needs that enraged regeneration was garbage who the [ __ ] wants that cataclysm the entire all of the class design decisions for cataclysm was just taking the things that the other classes had and giving it to the ones that didn't have the classes that's the same thing with mr pandaria there were some really cool abilities in mr pandaria like alter time however i will say that it was garbage man was actually good blizzard has actually been adding temporary powers to the game for a long time they just used to go about it differently at the start of every new expansion blizzard would add a couple of new abilities to every class and sometimes give them brand new talents then with the new expansion they would quietly just remove some of the abilities they didn't like anymore and since there was a whole bunch of new stuff added to every expansion there wasn't too much fuss about it well kind of people complained forever about eyes of the beast being removed at the start of cataclysm and a whole bunch of other minor abilities but when it came to blizzard wanting to give people new abilities they would just kind of do it without any fuss about how you obtain those things and since you got them all by default while just leveling into the new expansion people were just happy to get new stuff to play around with in fact that was one of the biggest appeals of a new expansion getting new abilities to play with but i remember uh i took a picture i was in target and i took a picture i i picked up a bucket and i put a bucket on my head and i had a rake in one hand and like a garden hoe in the other hand and i was like dylan take a picture of me i'm using titan's grip and i still have it somewhere i don't know where the [ __ ] the picture is but it's somewhere out there i remember yeah yeah it's somewhere out there and it was a great time man it was amazing i'm a blade storm holy [ __ ] it was great and i think that having new abilities is good but like you guys can can understand what i'm saying here right where like you can't just continuously add more and more abilities into the game because you'll reach a point like what they hit in mr pandaria where there are just simply too many abilities in the game and i think the game at that point becomes like impenetrable for a casual player to get into and understand because there's just so much nuance to it and i think a much better system is to have a fewer amount of abilities that play better where each class has its own flavor and quality and things that they can do uniquely and i just feel like legion was better in that regard i think that legion had less buttons better class fantasy better class identity and all classes could still do a lot of the same things right but they did it in much different ways it was skill blow didn't miss the battery it was it was skill bloat and they over corrected in wod absolutely wod was terrible because of it like i hated it because like you had almost no abilities after having so many but um and then also you have the stat squish so you it's like you're doing less damage and also you can't use the buttons that did the damage to begin with so yeah i i just i feel like people don't understand a lot of us we look at it from the perspective of like a high-end player like we're thinking of it from the perspective of like oh well you know this is what i think as like a 10-year veteran of the game but getting into the game and miss pandaria i think it was way harder than getting into the game in legion or wrath and i think being able to get into the game and go is actually a very very important important point of quality catalan's borrowed power system all players got four new abilities to play around with which is what we're saying it's not true wait you guys are saying the accessibility of the game is not a a quality metric the accessibility of the game is not a quality metric please please more than was added in older expansions where they randomly would give players two or three new things total where you'd be lucky if even one of them was actually usable ability in your rotation which is why i'm pretty confident that the blizzard added four new covenant abilities to the classes and let you change about interchangeably whenever you wanted people would have been pretty happy about it because they've been historically happy about getting worse things in previous expansions yeah some people might not remember this but symbiosis was a really game-changing ability that was added to druids for one expansion and then quickly removed after that expansion because it was too much of a headache to balance and that was during mists of pandaria it was too complex like it was a cool idea but it was just like super super complex uh symbiosis was fun yeah but like you the thing is like the reason why wow has problems with balance is because like this is one thing that makes it a lot easier for like final fantasy to balance their game it's because there are no trinkets in final fantasy there's no uh girth to lack in final fantasy whenever you go into pvp you can't use some random pve trinket like dress to gath and one shot somebody with a crit so like while they do have to tone down i think to a certain degree the amount of variables that they have to balance for because i i really think it's like impossible to do like it that you can't balance and i think that what they do is they just keep rotating imbalance which is i guess fine that's what most games do anyway but i think that oftentimes sometimes things are just broken and that's it before we had the modern borrow power systems that only exist for an expansion so for all intents and purposes symbiosis was basically like a covenant ability which they let druids play around with for one expansion before removing after that borrowed power time limit was over so why does the wow community hate borrowed power so much nowadays for the last three expansions blizzard has had systems of borrowed power that required you to put a lot more time and effort into the game than in previous expansions and a lot of those new systems were added in incredibly poorly almost i think there's also like a futility thing where like why do you want to farm artifact power whenever you don't have maxed out artifact knowledge it's like you're saying that you you like like why would you do it now if you just have to wait until later and like you would have to do it earlier because you were in a guild and there was like a guild pressure to have certain things unlocked at a certain time but it just sucked yeah it sucked because like it's like it basically makes people feel stupid for using the system it's like why should i farm this right now whenever there's a system that's just going to make it easier later on a way that was specifically designed just to waste your time or reward players that had nothing but free time on their hands and when blizzard added a new talent to the game in previous expansions there wasn't really an advantage you can get over someone else with those new talents as you just kind of got them by default but it also meant there wasn't really anything for you to do once you got those abilities and blizzard definitely wants to keep or add small power increases to the game because gradually increasing the power of your character is kind of fun runescape another popular mmo absolutely they should do that and i think lost ark does this very well too lost art does a great job with this because they have like different things like once you go through like whenever you hit tier three you have all of these different verticals like i haven't played enough uh of enough of runescape to really have an opinion on this uh so i can't really say right now but like whenever you're in lost ark like you have your tripods you have your gems you have your omnium stars you have your skill point potions you have your level 55 skills you have your level 60 skills you have all of these different things in the game that all work towards making your character more powerful and i think that's [ __ ] badass i i love that and like that's kind of what we had back in in miss pandaria to an extent and also in legion because you could farm out things on a lot of different verticals and then bring them into combat obviously it becomes more difficult whenever those things get reset etc and i think people are more okay with lost ark because again uh you know those systems are semi-permanent uh but the problem is that a lot of these times they're not semi-permanent and they just keep getting reset all the time like you know what i'm waiting for you know what i'm [ __ ] waiting for is where's our fourth spec blizzard where's the plate paladin inquisitor that does ranged holy damage where is the gladiator warrior where is the priest cultist that he uses melee attacks while we're in cloth armor where's the shaman tanking spec that uses the power of the earth where are these things huh where's the [ __ ] the void elf uh the void ranger uh druid i'm waiting let's go where's the the death knight that wears male armor and he's mounted all the time just like an original death knight and he uses spells and he can be mounted in combat where's this i'm waiting one of the originals even was built around the entire premise of constant progression literally every single thing you do mage a chronomancer can turn back time and reverse the wounds of his allies the mage becomes a healer how cool would that be who grows your character from fishing the weakest fish to gathering the most rare herbs yeah which makes a game that lets you do whatever you want at the moment however you wish to do it and get stronger by doing that activity of choice while there is no borrowed power within the game it does add new abilities once in a while and these abilities takes tens of thousands of hours to max out yeah and this is one of the main appeals of the game just constant power progression past the max level and the only real way to do it in wowwin previously i think that's also another appeal to a game like lost ark and new world is that lost ark and new world both have these long-term power progression systems that people can invest themselves into and feel like they're not wasting their time i think that the main thing that you can't do in an mmo is to make sure that nobody ever feels like they are wasting their time whenever i would grind something in in new world i didn't feel like i was wasting my time whenever i was grinding my omnium stars or my mochiko seeds in lost ark i never felt like i was wasting my time whenever i was leveling up my shards of domination in patch 9.1 i felt like i was wasting my time a lot mansions was through gear and gear alone so blizzard tried to add this near infinite progression system to the new borrowed powers of the expansion it kind of failed and definitely soured the name of the borrowed powers in the process because a lot of the actual borrowed powers themselves were a lot of fun to play around with if they had the system to buy legion legendaries at the start of the expansion if they had a corruption vendor with all of the corruptions on it for non-exorbitant prices at the start of the patch if they had azerite pieces of equipment they gave you an option to choose all of the azerite traits instead of just two options on it like theoretically imagine how much cooler corruptions would have been if corruptions were actually an account-wide profession that you could use a resource to enchant your gear on so you could enchant your gear with corruptions and you could like maybe douse it in like the uh in the the blood of uh n'zoth or something like this right and you could do it on your alts like i feel like i got cheated in bfa because i never got to experience so many other classes with full corruptions like there are very few like back in in like classic wow did you guys ever have this thing happen where like you would watch somebody play all right bc you would watch somebody play and you wanted to play the game because of how badass that class looked to play not its damage but just what it could [ __ ] do like i felt that way all the [ __ ] time man like i remember i watched this one warlock uh dotting up like and killing four people in like the terracotta auckland area the next day i made crack monkey the next [ __ ] day and like that was it was either that it was a gnome and then i think it was also it was two things it was that and also my warrior i i tried to fight a slsl warlock and the warlock was at 50 health and i fought him and he ended the fight at 70 health and i just was like okay i'm playing the wrong class like all right i made a mistake is what it is you know mistakes happen guys and so uh yeah uh next day one of the two i forgot which one it was both of them at some point uh i made the warlock and so in uh in bfa i remember i watched like bro can i find this clip um where is it bro there was one time ben ruki was fighting uh a rare spawn and a warrior walked next to the rare spawn and vinruki's dot from his ignite was so high because he had so much corruption the warrior literally died just from the dot that automatically transferred over to him and it just deleted him it was the funniest [ __ ] thing that i had ever seen and like i was going to show this but it wasn't it wasn't there i couldn't find it it was hilarious what had fewer abilities and borrowed powers fast progression might work yeah faster progression is what really matters but yeah corruption like i felt like i got really cheated out of the game uh that i didn't get to play bfa characters like i really liked playing my warrior with full corruptions it was [ __ ] awesome i only got to do it with one character because it took so long prices at the start of the patch if they had azerite pieces of equipment they gave you an option to choose all of the azerite traits instead of just two if the artifact weapon had an ap camp at the start of the expansion rather than a pseudo unobtainable one if they allowed you to change out your four covenant abilities at will then all of these systems would have been much more well-liked without them having to change anything about the actual powers themselves the borrowed power is not the problem it's how you obtain those powers true and real so true you know it i know it everybody [ __ ] knows it everybody [ __ ] knows this and like this is the i love these videos because like himared takes a topic that's like so universally agreed on impact thank you again for the five subs thank you very much i love these [ __ ] videos because like they're april fools videos but in a way like i think they've transcended that now and it's like that's actually a really good [ __ ] point man he's making a really good [ __ ] point i i totally [ __ ] agree i i love this because it's it's something that like everybody disagrees with but you watch this video and by the end of it you i think most people would agree on this absolutely [Music] [Music] you

Channel: Asmongold TV

Views: 408,289

Keywords: asmongold, asmongold reacts, asmongold wow, asmongold highlights, asmongold youtube, world of warcraft, asmongold funny, asmongold tv, asmongold channel, ZackRawrr

Id: WGcgQrWPkYE

Length: 61min 46sec (3706 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 09 2022