Asmongold Reactions "Why Classic WoW? Storytelling" by Defcamp & Melderon TV

I don't know if this video is gonna be any good or not people suggested it but we'll see what it's like [Music] okay this is good start I like it so far everything's looking good so far [Music] by Oh an epigraph is a joke but [Music] oK we've got like an eight minute intro here since almost as long as the one that I have for my stream so let me go ahead and read some donations here before I get into it okay I read those thank you guys again I came back too often watch your screen but retail because it's the upcoming sharp a I've waited decades I heard it gives me a feeling of sadness it simply wasn't the same yeah obviously it's not gonna be the same I mean the new patches are cool for a week or so but then it just basically goes back to the same old same old you don't want a minor herb all words or flowers at once cuz it makes no sense but looting many mobs at once makes sense it's not about it making sense it's about it's just super super efficient right and I don't think that that like AoE looting I'm sorry but I I'm going to forgo yes there is a little bit of contradiction there a Oh a looting is just too efficient like it's just too efficient I'd never want taken out of the game but for mining and everything I would want that to stay the same and also like I mean there are different ways you could look at it but like yeah I mean it's a bit contradictory but personally that's that's where I kind of draw the line because like obviously you can't have perfect continuity in a game that has like flying Phoenix's dragons and fireballs you have any expectations to invite Shadow Priests raid I will invite anyone to a raid if they're good at the game that's basically the way that I've always looked at it has we all do Drive tips out new video on it could I get your opinion on it just let me look at it Jesus Christ boys are distressed testing the login screen yeah that's kind of true I mean yeah I would say so yeah I mean this is uh what do you call it this is a fifty three minute video I can't watch a fifty three minute video okay [Music] hello ladies and gentlemen my name is Mildred and I've played World of Warcraft for a very very long time good even though I started in late vanilla and quit in Legion okay I experienced the vast majority of Wales evolution I'd like to share my opinions on why you should try classic well when it launches okay yes I know by now I'm willing to bet money you've watched many videos that compare of retail and class as well yes these videos explore the core gameplay differences between the two versions of the game by primarily focusing on aspects like class identity it does not like Meccano a community delivering experience in progression and I'll be the first to say that these aspects are extremely important comparison points and are alone amazing reason to try classic however one thing that I think it's overlooked often it is a unique storytelling that exists that vanilla well in my opinion this is perhaps the most important aspect of what makes Bunnell unique primarily because most if not all of the aforementioned aspects were also easily apparent if you compare the Burning Crusade or even Wrath of the Lich King to the current iteration of the game and no other expansion okay where you get introduced to the player in such a personal and subtle way than in vanilla well and before we go further I want to clarify that when I say story I'm talking about the lore itself the antagonists the goals of your faction and the lives of each and every NPC I like that's read me okay interconnected plays vanilla does this the first is by not making you the player the center of attention there it is the second is by providing the lore within the quest text and not in cutscenes in cinematic exactly and finally by subtly and slowly exposed you know what the best part about it is now they have the lore in the book that nobody [ __ ] reads oh no there's a cinematic on the website it's all no it's in the book what about the quest player to the game's antagonist through the diverse to much in Dungeon II systems using these three mechanisms the game developers were able to build the narrative without just pushing in your face immediately there it is to me is good game design and ultimately great storytelling pavan's now explore the first point you are but a cog in a great machine now I prefer to that's a live view this may seem like a letdown but in my and many others opinions everyone having weapons of legendary power and artifacts is stupid knowledge [ __ ] dream the immersion breaking yeah in vanilla well when you saw someone have a rare mount or a legendary item that guy was knocked out on your counter take a screenshot and yell your friends you were in the present a rogue player there it is it was amazing to not only see but also gave you something to aspire to making the world more unknown more vast yes vanilla makes it unapologetically and abundantly clear that you're insignificant when you log into the game for the first time nobody gives a [ __ ] about you yeah be your blue died a wolf's and your abilities are average at best this is not at least to demean you as a player no it is in place for a very important reason it relays to you that there is so much more out there so much more to explore so much to learn that's wrong in my opinion it gives you something to look forward to that's roast importantly you not being the center of attention makes it apparent that the world moves on without you that's right if you will not take up your sword and begin your adventure guess what someone else will well that's the same in legion if you won't be the high lord everybody else already is this story therefore is not dependent on your actions you are not a horde warlord nor are you a Grand Marshal and the Alliance forces that's right you are at best just a volunteer join the local militia to assist your faction and aspire to be something greater just a piece of [ __ ] basically make no mistake big dumb piece of [ __ ] something much greater just not the main protagonist you can instead become a somewhat integral piece of a much larger puzzle yo I just want to say something one thing somebody said this in chat same [ __ ] thing in Dark Souls that's what I liked about the Dark Souls 1 story it reminded me of vanilla Wow like I've never felt a game that had so many similarities to vanilla Wow then Dark Souls 1 like it was actually like really really surprising how similar the two games were and I put like 300 hours into Dark Souls 1 and ultimately take on the forces of evil that play your world but this is a big but you cannot do it alone in vanilla in order to achieve greatness you need to work well with the team whether that be four nine fourteen nineteen or thirty nine other players yep in this way the richness of the world slowly unfolds around you and builds the MMORPG experience and that community aspect so many of us are looking for to experience once again there it is you start your adventure in Azeroth by completing lowly missions delivering a letter a [ __ ] idiot basically clearing out some vermin from a mine Hey and slaughtering a few pesky boars that are eating up crops in a local farm slowly as you prove your worth you're awarded gear and are tasked with fighting more dangerous foes like the defias brotherhood and the blue grill boar I want to hear that it is then you first realize that there are other forces at work in Azeroth that exists on a continuum between good and evil there is a lot of it's an adventure well the defias have some noble qualities and warranted reasons for their actions the quill boar want to protect their culture and their lands even though there is some greater corruption that exists VanCleave did nothing wrong I just realized something I never put these two things together I think that a reason why people think that vanilla WoW and Burning Crusade and everything had so much better stories in them and people remember the story so much more is the fact that you didn't have quest helpers so in order to actually figure out what to do on the quest you had to read it so it basically forced you into reading the lore like it was a secondary thing but you would be reading the quest to figure out where to go right even if you didn't care about the lore you would pick up on that just by having to read the quest to know what the hell to do with it like I that's actually insane they get all of these weird things this is why I was saying before about how how could vanilla Wow have happened without it just being an accident like iiih it's so there are so many ways like that that are just so perfect I can't believe that someone smart enough to could actually do this intentionally like I'll be completely honest it's like I don't think that there's anybody smart enough in the entire world to create the game with that intentionally in mind like it must have been an accident it'd be notes to them this holds true for many of the forces you interact with like the centaur in the frill box yep and with each new zone and each enemy you meet you become entrenched in the living lore of the game you have to be but it's up to you to read the quest text it's up to you to make the lore real Khadgar isn't telling you why what you're doing is important or whether it's noble or not that decision is entirely up to you it isn't until later in the leveling process that you are fighting proponents of true evil like Ages of the Burning Legion or servants of the old gods welcomed in this way vanilla extends the world and creates a diverse storyline think of the villain matter - dungeon master if you have never played a tabletop game then you may not get this comparison but when playing dungeon dragons or Pathfinder the Dungeon Master's job if he or she is doing it properly is to let the story unfold slowly - not overtly explain how each puzzles completed and to put you and your party in situations that require you to work together and think to me vanilla is an excellent dungeon master that never shows his or her full hand unfortunately this dungeon master analogy has become less applicable as well as evolved the game while my opinion now tells you everything you need to know before even providing an adventure to embark on should let's cover point number two god yeah the lore is in the text if you've ever played the Burning Crusade then you remember the moment you entered the Dark Portal honestly it is a moment that I will never forget Sam dude what is the [ __ ] same when traveling through space and time and setting foot on another world think back yes score the first thing that I thought was how long is this loading screen gonna take what the [ __ ] everybody's gonna be ahead of me I'm never gonna get seventy at this rate first and scores of D my computer was bad am I saying that this experience wasn't amazing and heart-stopping no not at all I'm simply trying to point out the core differences between the storytelling styles right you may also remember the epic cinematic that reintroduced us to a fan-favorite tilden stormrage now if we compare both the cinematics for vanilla and TBC what do you notice right away aside from the cleaner and better graphics what centered around players like I'm gonna say this right now like if you think about it like the vanilla WoW cinematic is centered around players there's no in Pete there's no like named NPCs there it's just around the actual players and the people that move the game forward now obviously that's transitioned into Illidan because illidan's the main focus of the Burning Crusade but a lot of the other cinematics and everything we're focused on players and their accomplishments rather than the game as a whole I need to take a piss I'll be right back just a second you're not prepared all right sorry about that boys we're back yep you guessed it there as an antagonist in one and not in the other there it is you as the player know before you even buy the game who you will be fighting in all fairness this is what mr. Pande Aryan battle for Azeroth did partially right you don't know who the big bed is and either of those expansions from their cinematics not as driven l it takes this a step further but I'm also not revealing anything during most of the leveling process either yeah that is not until much later that the players introduced to the force Rock Mountain and onyxia moreover and Nick's here herself attempts to bring down the city of Stormwind from within and [ __ ] me thinking well melter on these differences are just a product of expanding the game each expansion has to have a theme or reason behind it right yeah yes expansions only cover small level ranges and are geographically inferior to the base game but in my opinion storytelling can be done with a bit more grace and subtlety in these expansions TBC and Rath focused on raid encounters to drive the lore while in vanilla the lore was spread evenly throughout the experience from multiple sources in vanilla if you want to know why the scarlet crusade is so extreme or why Tirion Fordring is standing in the middle of nowhere on the western shore of the West you have to read the quest text to find out and you have to read the classical wants to do the graph why you're going to Blackrock Mountain in the first place you have to pay attention to attunement quests you know there are many many layers to the greater story of classic well each NPC dungeon and raid have their own and it's up to you to explore each of them also repeatable quests were not available in vanilla so when you completed quests let's say the first time you completed all the gentle aura quests and pendulums you actually feel like you made a difference in the world and stopped a real threat to your faction now I never really felt that way like I don't think that's really had blizzards tried different ways of like feeling like making the player feel like they have an impact on the world I think the best times that boy has ever done not is probably in aisle of called honest and the molten front because and then also there were a few times were like after a guild killed Deathwing or a guild killed the Lich King you would have like a monument in a dollar end so there would actually be impacts that players could have on the world which was really cool but for the most part I never really gave a [ __ ] whenever I completed the quest I didn't feel like I did anything magical we're really important it's just that I was done with the quest so I personally don't really I don't strongly agree with this but I can see what he's saying how days with daily is in world quest the impact of completing the quest is completely lost as you fight thank yous another sample day in and day out sometimes in vanilla when you completed the quest that page of the book was turned this establishes sense of permanence and completions of the gameplay that is akin to finishing a chapter of a good book the first two points I've given you can be some mated graphically if you are like me you like plots so let's imagine a 2-dimensional plane with two axes on the bottom or x-axis we have time and on the Y or Left axis the vertical one we have storytelling mode on the bottom of the y-axis we have completely player and world associated storytelling okay and on the top of this axis we have completely established lore associated storytelling an established lore example would be something like Illidan Stormrage or Arthas Menethil whoa obvious that blot itself for each expansion going from left to right through time in vanilla well the story was much more player in world focus but still had some established law elements in the very next expansion the Burning Crusade the narrative became much more established lore oriented with its inclusion of the Burning Legion and Illidan Stormrage yeah I mean I'm a glitch king this is over Arthas stole the show moving us even more into the established lore in Cataclysm the world changed significantly but was still grounded and established Lord here we see a slight shift in storytelling mists of pandaria the same trend continues as Pandaria was actually established lore and we have all the old guys stuff as well okay dude okay dude okay world of Draenor is where things really turn around yeah we drop way down into the player and world associated storytelling into my opinion the realm of this is the sub count this occurs for two interconnected reasons the first is that the lore went into a totally new direction as yep you guess that a totally new timeline was introduced great idea no established lore behind it yeah the second reason is since we don't have any established lore someone had to become the center of attention and that person is you this is why you are now referred to as the hero in the narrative the story has no legs to stand on it in Legion this got even worse as everyone and their mother had the dam - brayner this is completely lazy storytelling in my opinion and makes the story so unbelievable and now with BFA Anacin so I think really the distinction he's trying to draw here because it didn't really make a lot of sense to me and based off of the question marks and shat I think that most people feel that way so he liked the top here the story mode means that the war is basically told to you is like is told through like extra stories right like so the Lich King Illidan and the player is basically a vehicle of moving that story forward and at the bottom here in like wad and Legion I would completely disagree with this wad placement personally I think that everything in wad was pretty much determined by the NPC's the NPC's did everything the player really had no impact whatsoever but you know maybe you could disagree with that and down here what he's saying is that this is more things that are driven by players and the storyline being driven by players so above this is a storyline being turned by NPCs versus being driven by players so it's the only way that I can really figure out how to make sense out of this we have no idea what they were going for here is the narrative player world's lore or is it faction based honestly I have no clue but I'll be honest I'm genuinely interested in where they go with the narrative in the future if you're like me I'm sure you've noticed that this trend line eerily simulates the one buzzing around the internet depicting the popularity of well as a function of subscriber number there are right about the it is in live association to make but just remember guys yeah relation does not necessarily equal causation obviously if they are late that would mean that people enjoy good Lord driven narratives however these are hard to keep going in the long run in actuality the sole reason I made this was to only point out that vanilla exists in a very unique place on this timeline with a more player and world related story but still having aspects of established law peppered in what's extremely balanced and to me this is what makes Ben all unique finally let's discuss the third point the subtle unfolding of the lore I'd like to tackle this point utilizing examples from the questing system and I'd like to personally thank a friend of the channel tell a drill for pointing this one out okay thank you tom pleasure of leveling of the barons then you may remember digging up some insect eggs south of camp de Rojo no silly fat eggs to be exact I know utilizing a special quest item the quest giver Koren a troll in the crossroads says to you a male deer on I've been sent to the crossroads to watch over the land and take note of its happening for me masters in Orgrimmar one object of mysteries are the insect-like creatures found in the south of the field of giants his throne is bad for him two of these creatures so I've been making it a point to discover more they seem to have intelligence to him more so than any normal animal take this digging climb on and collect some of the creatures eggs from their mounds but be careful if alerted they will attack you okay I'm really sorry you guys have to suffer through that anyway you did great he turned the quest in he says there good afternoon please be milder on the eggs and the tool we're done and for your reward and that's it there really isn't any logical follow-up - this quest however there are similar quests than fer Ellis tenaris and un'goro the task II with finding out more about these strange insects but all of them are exploratory in nature as the Horde the Alliance and even the goblins are trying to find out what makes the Silla that tick and if you did these question for 1.9 no one really knew what the insectoids were up to I mentioned this Silla that example for one simple reason that's so good the developers were extremely subtle building on crotch content up over a year before its releases a raid tier utilizing minimal open-ended quests as the game progressed these misunderstood curiosities grew into something literally world-changing as the story ultimately led to the gates of Ahn'Qiraj opening event and our first brush as a player base - one of the old gods c'thun this is an excellent example of good storytelling and foreshadowing as the silithus story arc provides an example of how invested the developers were to the story not only that but the quests which seemed unconnected at first spans several zones and tens of levels that's dedication in design and this is only one example of great quest engineering we can say the same for the more Latino West in duskwood the missing diplomat quest line which spans five zones the stones that bind us in the swamp of sorrows and the Blasted Lands Tirion Fordring Zin dreams quest line and countless others these quests not only build a living breathing world I had never wanted to ever had I'd never had any sort of like inspiration to make a game right ever the first time that I ever felt like I was really watching or playing game that I was really like inspired to like man maybe I should make video games myself was Dark Souls 1 I saw that game I beat the game and I realized like how good it was I was like there's no way I could ever make this game I bet this is just incredible like there's no way going back and looking at all these things about WoW and all the ways that they did this like all these little moving parts like it actually makes me feel like there's a lot of games that I'd be like yeah I could made this game right and like obviously I couldn't but it's like you'd think that you could whenever you look at how many pieces in vanilla wow I couldn't even begin to do this like there's no way I did this as this is incredible like I I I don't know why I mean it's just insane because the difference between a game like this and like Witcher 3 people use that as an example right for stories I think this like the story connections and everything occur in the own in the players owned mine and it's much more like something that happens internally rather than something externally that you just witness and that's why I think is really special they provide such variety and enemies in TBC we fight the Burning Legion in Wrath it's discouraged in Canada it's the old gods in Pandaria it's the old gods again and we go on and on but in vanilla we are put into a series of complex struggles that contain even more complex stories within them this complexity provides so much variety and so much lore for the player to experience for me these three reasons that I highlighted are why I'm going back to because it's where I can truly immerse myself into the work I've universe yet again for me it's where I can forge lasting friendships while embarking on unique adventures for me it's where I can experience the love and commitment of the classic while development team through the eyes of my character I truly hope you'll join me and embark on your own adventures and have your own unique experiences in the greatest gaming environment ever created I hope to see you in Azeroth friends Hey ladies and gents I had a lot of fun making this video hold me long time to make and I really took me some time to really think about how I wanted to portray the feelings I had about the vanilla well storytelling and how its truly unique there's no for the war craft in general and I like to know what you think I want to know why classic well was unique to you so if you have a moment think about something that really made you been all unique to you and why you're really eager to go back ready to comment and I like to see your your point of views as well and if you're a retail player that never experienced classic well before but just really eager to give it a shot take this time to really think about what do you want in the game is it just getting the max level and burning through content or is it to really escape and go into a vicarious Lee through your avatar but anyway guys if you like this video please leave a like below and if you join this type of content or interested in other types of videos we might your deaf camp melter on TV don't forget to subscribe and stay tuned for more guides deaf talk interviews with content creators and enthusiasts Mel Durant's classic well vlogs and those dungeon diver Let's Plays Wow coming up soon also join us on Disko be part of the Deaf game another on TV community and follow us on Twitter for video updates and more links will be in the description I would also like to take this opportunity to thank our wonderful patrons who make videos like this possible if you want to help us make better content by supporting us directly consider becoming a patron there are a number of rewards that you may be interested in guys as I said it's like occasionally I'll see something that I just feel like I'm completely outclassed you like I'll see it's like okay I could never do that right it's like this is like you think about classic Wow was like the the pinnacle accomplishment of the collective minds of the top neckbeards in the country that's what it really was and what it was it was it was just a game it is it was it was a lot more than a game for a lot of people and I think that's really what makes it so special like I yeah this was the pinnacle accomplishment like the apex accomplishment of all neckbeards basically putting their their minds together from all the other games you think you do most things well I mean like the thing is like there's a certain point that yes obviously it may seem easy right but to be able to see something that was done masterfully and be able to understand the mastery and the skill and the technique behind it whenever you're witnessing it even as an outsider I don't think it's dunning-kruger or anything I think that's something much bigger than that and and to see something like that is just amazing the servers are not up I've been trying to load into the servers the stress test I don't know I don't know like I don't know what they're testing like I really am Not sure I have no idea man I'm trying to load in and I'm not able to season four okay yeah yeah I saw that I will look at this season for a neck beard challenge probably tomorrow or so okay

Channel: Everything Gaming

Views: 170,811

Keywords: discussion, bfa, storytelling, classic vs retail, retail vs classic, comparison, story, lore, kargoz, tips out, melderon, defcamp, lights hope, tbc, retail, northdale, battle for azeroth, alexensual, asmongold, kronos, lightbringer, azeroth, nostalrius, nost, private server, hope, lights, elysium, world of warcraft, wow, vanilla, classic, asmongold classic, everything twitch, everything asmongold, asmongold twitch

Id: CstjIw7F2V8

Length: 30min 3sec (1803 seconds)

Published: Thu May 30 2019