Antiques Roadshow UK Series 14 Episode 1 at Alexandra Palace, North London

[Music] hello and welcome to this first program in our new series of the Antiques Roadshow and where better could we possibly come to begin our 12-week journey around Britain than here Alexandra Palace surely the most familiar landmark on the skyline of North London and as you'll discover we've another rather special reason for coming here [Music] Alexandra Palace was where British television began and from 1936 onwards the aerial that towered over the building became the symbol of the BBC's new service [Music] the BBC began broadcasting from here in 1936 and Ally Pally was the home of the television service for the next 30 years the palace of the people was opened in 1873 and burned down just 16 days later rebuilt the following year for the next century it was North London's rival to the Crystal Palace in the south in 1980 it was once again gutted by far but over the last 10 years has been restored to most of its former glory something of the colorful history of Ally Pally as its affectionately known originally built as the palace of the people the people have turned out in great numbers as you can see for this first program in our new series so let's now go inside the palm court as they used to say on the wireless to join not the orchestra but our experts among the many familiar faces you will be seeing again there's David batty on the always busy pottery and porcelain tables together with Henry Sandom Hilary Kay will be covering a wide variety of things from the 19th and early 20th centuries and with Hilary this week there's Eric nose while Ian Pickford will be on the lookout for any interesting silver or other precious metals and furniture is in the expert hands of John Line as interesting pair of thought and I'll pair two dishes do you know what I think my Barber's bleeding bowls I've been told kind of half right they are Barbara's bowls and it was in the 18th century and earlier the barbers were also surgeons but I think if anybody went to a surgeon to be cured and was bled into that they would rapidly die off for I mean there must be a poison no they simply barbers bowls but you're interesting to have two of them because they're not from the same area at all one is Japanese what is Chinese what are you doing from but they were left to me yes we had an old gentleman living with us and and when he died he left everything he brought with him attic treasures you have the mouth under spoke I have this one on the wall and the other one in the cabinet right why did you this one under cover not in the world because it hasn't a thing on the back but it's upside down the super plastic plate is hung the wrong way at first it's very bizarre because they've even supplied you with two which fell original always put a bit of strength and of course they were hung on the wall well let's look at them in a bit more detail this one is Japanese and dates from about 1700 and this one's rather later this one's about 1740 1750 so my room there they are actually both not common objects what I particularly like about them is they display very well with difference between Chinese and Japanese porcelain in the quality of the blue if you look at this one and a detail like that you'll find it's rather as if the whole thing is through a mist and that's because the Japanese plays has got millions of minut bubbles in it and it's very thick so it all atomistic you concentrate on an area of the Chinese much sharper looking all together because it's a thinner glaze without bubbles in it and it's one of the good distinguishing features between the two for smells and they're quite collectible these things this one would be worth it's got a chip here that's going to be worth in the region of seven hundred to a thousand pounds and that one about the same price well that's nice nice things to have a room hang this one up there's well with it thank you now get around to it what's fascinating is that this is the first of what is called the index typewriters and that means really that you didn't have a keyboard you had the letters indicated which you would then select by a pointer and I don't know what sort of speed you can do all this but it's certainly quite time-consuming because you've got the letter index here and you move this armature to select the letter push it down and on it moves to the next one and if I can open it up and have a look underneath I think it'll be quite interesting well it would have been quite interesting here if this should be the the alphabet in rubber now what's happened to that it's in tiny piece of the rubber had disintegrated into small pieces and an envelope so you've got out of what remains because the system would be that you would if I just do it from the top it's ellipse the letter and then this there's a sort of punch in the center isn't there that would then punch the imprint if you only while you're the punching one letter the other letters would pick up ink from the pad that's right one things I've always wanted to see and that's the type writing glove which was apparently a rubber something like a washing up the glove which had with all the delicious on various parts doing this rose and this I suppose is what the space personal space I'm it's a lovely action it's so simple it was invented by a chaplain Thomas hall in Salem Massachusetts in 1881 and there's a bit of that written on the top here it says the Hall typewriter company New York patented March the 1st 1881 and it's got the serial number 1007 on it should I claim this by the way this I wouldn't do anything to at all it's in such good condition and I would have said in a specialized sale we're talking about if Dean honor so look after it but this is probably a piece of morning jewelry because we've got the little pearls here pearls were synonymous with tears it was all a very gloomy age people were always in mourning for one thing or another so many people died I know and so a piece of morning jewelry would have almost been a Dirigo it would have been a piece of jewelry that you would have seen on almost every lady's costume at one time or another what we've got here is basically a Prince of Wales feathers if you look at the pattern yes but made out of human hair now the extraordinary thing about this is that during the 19th century if you were not at all well lying in bed and somebody came to you and they gave you a short back and sides and started taking pieces of hair off you knew probably he would have a job you'd had it that was bad news for a star that's right but also you could buy a kid you could go out you could buy a beautiful locket like this with the hair in one little compartment and the pearls and the glue and you could make up your own piece of jewelry after this kid what people didn't realize was that unfortunately the hair could well have come from the prostitute because the ladies of the night used to actually sell their hair a bit of extra money to go into these kits yes I like the idea of all these babies you know Victorian we've been making jewelry out of this rather dubious substance but I don't unfortunately think that yours is a gold example no I think it's made of something called Pinchbeck Pinchbeck was a slightly cheaper alternative to go but was often used in this type of locket and jewelry today if you wanted to go into a shop to buy a piece like this you would have to expect to pay anywhere around about 200 pounds for it it apparently this was amazing that was flourish to be run with her no it wasn't plaster passed a woodchip very easily this is an enormous the matrix of this would be an absolutely enormous piece of equipment and the wax would be poured into it wax in the sense this is sealing wax as opposed to candle wax or anything like that a deteriorate to ease of the earth and poured into the great matrix and made into one of these fabulous great seals at the end of the sovereigns ray and the matrix is always destroyed yeah at the end of one ray in the beginning of another but these don't fit as you can see these don't fit precisely into their tins and they tend to get shaken around shone around and they become as I as I was saying earlier like biscuits and they tend to fall to pieces and look absolutely horrid a great seal on its own a good impression would be worth about 200 to 250 pounds coupled with this document in a nice box I would say this would retail for about seven or eight hundred pounds very good I assume it's Chinese or Tibetan eh for more temple dance or all of that I told them you know very functional with more symbolic yes right well it's Chinese and they're termed as river pirates and they're very interesting because of this surprise when you take it out we discovered there's two swords instead of one and they do fit beautifully together as you can see but if Julie good loud sound this music box was made by a manufacturer called BH Abraham's it's not because that's what I'm here for saying how nice that's company yeah yeah sandalwood yes but a river pirates sword in that condition that would make about 100 I'm very pleased that in your restoration you didn't get rid of these transfers because they're only applied they're not amazing that you know that they didn't come up with me Oh you use paint stripper on it and elbow grease forces wiring fixing wires to a metal ground filling him with enamel firing it and then polishing it it's one of the techniques one of the rare techniques which was developed in Europe before it was developed and used and apparently got to these depart from Europe the Japanese have not got a long history of making this on a they made very small pieces perhaps in the sixteenth century but large pieces like this were not done in Japan until the middle of the nineteenth century really this one's probably about 1850 1860 and actually off its kind it's very good quality indeed and it is copying Chinese interest in what we call Fang made a copy of mean because on a and what we've got on here is a typical Ming style roundel of a dragon above a car in waves and the carp leaped through a waterfall and it's symbolic of passing your exams and if it achieves leaping through the waterfall and getting to the top it becomes a dragon oh and that's what this is symbolic of we've got Lotus on here it's it's curious because not rarer than the modern ones and certainly as historically interesting because of the same value it's actually worth I think somewhere around 700 to 900 part something like that it's really a fair bit of money these are also Japanese these are not raised on a show live a really yes and in this technique the wires are not soldered on no they are part of the casting this whole bronze thing is cast with the wires in place then you mean film and that's shown of a show every strictly speaking he is gauging out in between but we use the term rather loosely to cover this technique as well these days probably from the 1880s their gods prepare they're going to be worth in the region of live ones Chinese this is a 400 incense burner very nicely decorated shoe symbols with a long life notice it's on the four character mark of the Emperor King long who reign from 1730 since 1796 what I'm not sure about is whether in fact the season four period whether it's a nineteenth-century one there are people who are far more expert in this topic is honor than I am but I think this is right I think it is of the barriers and if so it's going to be worth in the region of farm to 3,000 pounds no oh yeah it's a very nice little piece indeed I'm very pleased for a minute thank you thank you well they're absolutely delightful as a pair I think by the time that these were made the fire screened the original purpose with the shielding the heat of the fire from the place that stopped makeup melting which was the first purpose in the 1720s had long gone because these are about 1840 they're solid rosewood and we just look at the design which is what gives us the property that did the dating but his liens poor feet with that sort of it'll be true viens scroll as a bracket leading up into this tri form base very popular after the seven 1820s and then there's sort of curvilinear balusters which is lobed and moulded then you find that after about 1830 and then we'll give it another sort of ten years and this continuation of the French Rococo style is sort of one Sea scroll that's a Sea scroll leading into another in this shield shape French Revival and then actually finishing in the one disappointing I know I thought you'd see that they should be little rosewood ones being put on later it doesn't really know whatever yeah the joy is that they haven't been made into something commercial yeah which is a table and the popular thing to take the screen off take the pole off here inside him and so many have had that treatment that that has created a rarity in a collector's value in these so no I just ask you how long we've had them yes oh right fairly recent yes fairly recent really they have been a bit longer right and I did for a violent auction yes I rather like then I took a fancy to the mobile were rather pretty and very unusual to get a pair that is the perfect reason for bias but can I embarrass now how much you pay for well I thought rather a lot of money actually was about 180 pounds really I thought was quite a lot of money at the time well even at the time it was it was a sense of about was it oh yeah it's nice to know I think I come shopping with you next glad to hear that I think today they're certainly near a 15 [Music] I think he was born about 1760 and died about 1830 he's carrying the steam pump that cleared the Cornish tin mines of water I would think about 1790 he invented that I don't know Richard Trebek and his name is Richard terrific obviously this was painted a lot later after he was dead yes this was painted certainly in the 1850s or very early 1860s but it is Martin being a wonderful painting is a history lesson in British painting up to that period we have all the drama of Joseph Wright of Derby sharing an industrialist inspecting his inventor inspecting his model and then we have much more close to that period we have the young pirata lights influences all the way through the picture the model could have stepped out of feminine smiling Shepard the model of Richard himself of his wife perhaps swept straight out of Millay engraving very exciting but we have one problem to solve which is who's it by I would suspect that it was painted to decorate of a Victorian engineers dining room or morning room or something like that I think it's a serious oil painting and I think he just happens to chosen this rather dramatic subject even without knowing the authorship I wouldn't hesitate to put on less than 10,000 pounds that is a lot more than I would've thought hey 50 well done must have had them 30 years or more I should think they were given to me by an aunt who's now dead but she lived in markets at the latter part of her life and knew that I liked cats and I think she must have picked up in a junk shop for me there's probably they would have been a great deal of money you did know how much she paid for well it says on this one one in eleven well the values got up a bit it's been around about a honking back much more if they'd be gallery but they are grateful and now they stood alone I think he's absolutely charming but what's his story well some years ago I was used to be involved in jumble sales to raise funds for an organization that I was with and at the end of the day he was in the rubbish box he was going to be sent up to the tip because nobody wanted here but I couldn't bear to see him there so I bought him for I don't know 25 peas something like that and ever since my daughter's have run would that be continuously because they say he's ugly and broken and I should throw him away well I know he's primitive he's lost his lost a bit of his crowd so he's half a cracker but what a lovely face eggs absolutely gorgeous and he's in a body called cream where this creamy earthenware by which is very typical of around about 1780 more than 100 years older than look at him to be a bit Babbage and he can be sure from where this is English in the style of water lovely wait that'll my daughters well it's a nice enough little washed and [Music] it's an old one it's a period one I think the color is probably bad but when you look underneath I mean this that's all 18th century this is all very nice and I call that dirty in the corner brackets are so have you had this a long time locally pretendin huh shortly to close down I didn't haggle I mean I never had what do you I think that probably would have to give round about 1200 pounds the reason I said France is that the man who made this is probably better known for his cats there's a signature emile gallé an odyssey I mean he went on to do great things in furniture and glassware employees regarded as this sort of high priests of the Art Nouveau but prior to that the family were concerned with a fianc factory base what son come on down in the Alsace and this is typical of one of the products that they're made in around about the 1890s what can we tell you about the price I have to say that in this present competition he's probably worth in the region of about six to eight hundred pounds really well it would be marvellous if he untied his leg on give me it because he'd be worth the roundabout stuck back on again under start back on again because he would have been worth near a $2,000 what was the faring well there's a temperance Bible naturally no no no he won't did great he get away to the bakery but when he came back he fought is present big one and we worked there with he waited 30 years before he got around to buying her a person you probably know that is that called a chicken clock or some clock for the simple reason that the numbers are on tickets there in fact they look like bone but they are in fact a sort of composite material and just by altering the time there you can see each ticket flick-on yes he goes over every minute that's right and then for the minutes and the hours we have what looks like a pointing finger made of the same material which acts as a ratchet so the tickets can't flip back obviously the thing is brass a cylindrical glass which at the time was quite an unusual way was it of illustrating time when it was dead right about the period of course late last century early this century country of origin guess where it comes from I've no idea well it's almost certainly German though is it yes all yes I know it's a German movement that's right it it will be a German movement actually having looked it underneath there's nothing to say what factory and think it came from and we've just got a very simple winding there and a slow fast regulator and obviously the handset in the middle so bearing in mind you've had it in the family it's obviously perhaps just a thing you've taken for granted rather than associated money well they're fetching at the moment between 240 and 300 pounds of object I wouldn't sell it sentiment sentimental always keep it it was keeping it's never gonna make you a fortune [Music] boy well what a whopper I think is all that I can say about this I mean we've seen a lot of gramophones on the roadshow but nothing quite as because I feel as if I'm being sweetened by no it's an EMG an EMG the company started business in 1927 it was a an English company and in fact they were the the only real quality electric gramophones at the time they were terrific quality so I understand and of course what was another facet about them was that they used fiber needles to played at the Rec board so that you use the fiber needle once it threw it away or sharpened it and that didn't damage the the record well where on earth to get fiber needles these days well it's very difficult I don't use five me was I used bamboo needles which I'll make myself so this this pair of scissors then was the was the shock there was a sharp of a cambered machine yeah let me just have a go at that so you put it in you line it up very clever the important of courses made of papier-mache and there was always the rumor that it was made of old telephone ring I heard that the other rumor I heard was that it was made of the sugar babe you know social in Blue Bay yes it was I don't know well telephone breakfast I'm not gonna melt it down well it is a super gramophone it's a very good make it's in very good condition it's a quality machine and I think that the value would be around that's 1200 to 1800 pounds bracelet watch that was probably manufactured around about 1920 to 1925 and the craftsmanship is fairly exquisite lovely diamonds going all the way around the case and round the bracelet itself and the shape of the case is very very pretty is called a tonneau shaped case he's got these rather attractive or shoe shaped stirrups shoulders it's not signed but it's still a very wearable and commercial piece because it's such fine craftsmanship had expected to make around about 1,500 to 2,000 you know it's one you can't just have a look at your diamond ring [Music] thank you well that is an example of a particularly pretty design that was made around about the same time as the watch sort of right 15 19 20 beam stones are very nice white diamonds one two three got very small carbon spots but all in all the stones are very good quality and it's in a contra fall shape setting of black hard stone which are called in fact onyx black are stones and they calibrate cut which means that they've literally been set in a line following the setting of the diamonds in the center in the center itself so a charming ring mounted in platinum has got Worth plat just engraved inside there and a very very commercial design because of the tremendous contrast has been achieved between the white and the black so do you have any idea what that might be worth no well it's more commercial than the diamond watch and I would expect a ring like that to achieve in auction in the region of about two and a half thousand [Music] but an unusual crazy but I started to worry about these release amazing and the chinoiserie decoration in the middle makes it so that's my knowledge and unrecorded in this temperature so place any idea what that would be worth with its name I have not the slightest idea eight ten thousand five you've had the good news which was like the bad news yes without its lead somewhere between 250 and 500 pounds in an auction that's why they call it a pair case to watch because it has a pair of cases and you know and to the outer case and here instead of the new rule it says Thomas Harris he was he a relative or anything like that no at 180 years old to think of that was probably made for Thomas Harris it's a nice thing unusual to see dolls like that what do you reckon it's worth well you could buy yourself a decent mountain bike with it I'm sure make the best part of three hundred quid at auction okay yes yes that's typical you got before Kerry tomorrow usually got a four-character came to see mark that he's supposed to become tree we sadly written you wouldn't know it would you he reigned from 1662 to 17 22 and that's the Martin you usually find on these pieces yes but the man that broke that was illiterate I think semi illiterate I mean if the big giveaway is that it's a four carat tomorrow it's very rare I mean you normally find a six character mark and the real thing poor character marks are usually very very indicative of being 19th century coffee I think it's fair to say that this one was almost certainly done probably on a Friday afternoon and he couldn't wait to get home we see here a girl who is dressed in black so she's obviously morning perhaps in morning maybe from the parents and we see all the objects of all the symbols of her decline if you like the staffordshire pottery is a quite good quality that blue and white which means that she's probably come from a stable middle-class family we see how she's declined she's living in this attic room the tablecloth is tattered the carpet is worn and there is a ray of hope perhaps because on the windowsill we see a jug full of primroses spring a little hope for the new year and she has in her hand a letter perhaps from a long-lost work loved one who may or may not come back the painting is by Charles Rossiter it's actually signed with monogram down here and dated 1854 it is a typical and very beautiful work from that period very detailed and as for value I would say probably you should be ensuring it between 15 and 20 example my mother-in-law is nearly 80 she can remember that her grandmother had you when she was a child ride and she thinks her grandmother program of fun no it's just being around so it is not inherent it is family thing this is just friendly that's my turn to look after it and then I pass it on but I'm finding out what it is this is good Georgian English furniture what appeals to me about this particular table of which this drop beef type is very very popular very common in fact is the fact that this one has six legs instead of four now normally at this size you would expect this leg to swing out to support the lid in this case there's an extra one in the middle period because it is so stable mm-hmm it has a nice proportion and usually you find that it's almost if you like a luxury version and I got to do that again look how well that fits in there I mean it's a brilliant bit of design these tapering legs turned and tapering wasted a lot of timber you can see the size of that paradigm here so the mr. canty found solutely and then at the top you always have this square section with a little what we call a caddie molding on the outside edge and that type of design was popular throughout the period 1714 1745 right through to about 1765 and you'll find it on all sorts of further of this type what I would call middle-of-the-road charlie good quality doubly useful furniture and now 230 240 years old and still is useful and I think even more beautiful than it was when it was new little table I suppose today is in the region of two thousand pounds yeah because of the six legs you see it's it's a very small very sophisticated the table it's time here we've got a dish of a color scheme people family there with this particular green bias towards it this is characteristic of porcelain made in the late 17th century and early 18th century and this one is very close to 1700 really yeah one of the characteristic clues to look for is what happens around this blue enamel yes and what you get is an iridescent you said yes very vagueness did you get it in the right light now that you will only find on the nerdy cases it doesn't appear on the labels and here we can say if I hadn't seen it before transient right very good food moving back in time we come to this large dish this one date is decoration under plays boom dates from about 1580 to 1600 but Saudis actually Ming the possible it's your actual Ming that's right they came out going the last mum yes we are the equivalent of the early Japanese actual portrait which was in millions of it most of being destroyed there invariably cracked or chipped this one has drawn a slight hair crack in here but otherwise it is a splendid one and very recently painted they're often rather fuzzy and blood but this is a good and this is also the one your father gave you your piece of Ming porcelain oh gosh but this is a even earlier than this one this was made during the reign of Emperor Wan Li who reigned from 1573 to 1619 and it's a pen tray or brush tray and it survived in almost perfect stage it's very slight nipples around here which always get in a tiny chip of this mountain shaped rest in the center underglaze blue dragons with wonderful bigoted us strong good color I like it very much and on the back here we've actually got the mark of the Emperor himself right so this is what we call mark and period porcelain now of course the Chinese endlessly copied earlier reign marks when it's over the period of the Emperor we call it marking periods and it reads tar Ming break Ming Dynasty one le-let's and then the Emperor nian Jie made in the reign of yes so we've got the whole bit there very rare thing to find indeed now values this one I think given the fact that we've got some chips on it is going to be around a thousand to fifteen hundred pounds this one very slight hair crack with minor very decorative probably in the region of two to three thousand pounds but this one is a real star oh gosh and somewhere all the time what do you use it for I put things in it oh well that's what it was made but very nice it's very nice I think you should treat it with a great deal oh one drop two things from a great height anymore I wouldn't do that that's worth somewhere in the region of twelve to fifteen thousand pounds yeah you thought I was gonna say hundred so we only remembered that last minute actually really yes we nearly didn't bring it brilliant I'm glad you did thank you it's the sort of thing a health business they would have an absolute fit went into a house and saw that this around the neck of a baby the ring there also be a ribbon through that and we went on that hanging for the neck of a baby actual early paintings right you can see babies with these around their necks really yes so that's a problem then these bells make a lovely lovely boy is that that's so often with rattles a bell is missing of course you know where it's got it I wasn't really uncomfortable action for the poor children parents as well I think they they must have prior to time because what I didn't have a warrant for those things but they're always supplied with these whistles and the quietest part of the whole thing of course down at the other end here there the tema yes that's actually a piece of colouring this one's a bit scored but that's that's not too seriously but what is love is that this one is so complete so many of them we get teeth marks and Elsa missing so many times the coral was broken or is missing it it was actually made in Birmingham so there's the anchor and then they relate better to the wire for 1873 yes the makeup problem is there gee you know that's Georgian lights if that was to come up today being as complete as it is I would expect to see it by somewhere on four or five hundred pounds I see you see these tiny little so turquoise type beads just put on very very carefully in that the attention to the gilding and the the cross-hatching on that coronet and look at that monogram it's like it's like something from the Lindisfarne Gospels isn't it they're so wonderful and ornate so when you see an object you know you've the quality shouts of you I believe the coronet is because they belong to the family of the Earl of Derby my late aunt was a secretary to a member of that family and on her death my uncle had them and when he died last year I had to dispose of his pets so they've come around and I decided to dispose of this to me look at you because we're looking at porcelain made in County Fermanagh I mean if ever anybody ever put County for Manor on the map it's bleak porcelain wonderful shapes this is known as the itchiness pattern simply because there derive from seojun's let's take this teapot for example one I mean I take my hat off to the chap that thought of that teapot wonderful imagination but there it is not only have we got the the pot itself as a sea urchin this lovely lovely cover with ash little shelf finial and the the handle very skillfully made in in a form of coral and they've actually just added a little bit of pink just to just to heighten it and not only on the on the handle but also the spout and on the base let's have a look at the base let's just turn the base over and see what we can there it is first of all we've got the the belief mark above that you've got what some people call a kite mark which is a registration Dimond and by checking with the child it would tell you that this design was registered at the Patent Office on the 22nd of February 1869 no when it comes to value I have to say that without the crests we'll be looking at somewhere in the region all about 600 pounds but because of the JUCO connection I think they could touch a thousand homes so whether you like it or not I mean I have to say it would simply be my cup of tea well nobody else's I certainly will never drink out of it now well David it's always good isn't it to get the first program in the bag just to reassure ourselves if reassurance is needed that the antiques and the people are going to keep on coming and how and how and that gentleman you had earlier on who brought in this Chinese pen tray I just didn't believe it he almost didn't come along at all no no he was looking for it they found in his bedroom extraordinary now you valued this at the time at twelve to fifteen thousand years yes and do I gather that some years ago it was worth in 1946 his father died and it was done for probate at 22 pounds I mean quite correctly it's just that the market is totally changed and you saw with him just one or two pieces from his collection which is enormous as we can see all these things and this is only a small part of it a lot of its being sold but he covers from hard Stone's to Persian tiles to blonder Xin Kazan a I mean enormous Lee Catholic tastes and all very well chosen well I'm delighted to say that you've had such a marvelous day and serve are either our experts dude David thank you very much indeed and our thanks also to the people of North London who have given us here in Alexandra Palace such a wonderful send-off to this new series of the Antiques Roadshow we are off now to North Wales and I very much hope that you'll join us there at the same time next week until then from David the other expert [Music]

Channel: UK VHS Archive

Views: 43,713

Rating: 4.7866669 out of 5

Keywords: Antiques Roadshow, Antiques Roadshow 1991, Antiques Roadshow Series 14, Alexandra Palace, Hugh Scully, VHS full Episode, BBC 1, VHS 50fps, Japanese Barber Bowl, Chinese Pen Tray, Index Typewriter, VHS, Antiques Roadshow UK

Id: fxVz-KXJR1M

Length: 42min 54sec (2574 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 16 2018