DEVELOPMENTS SO I WANT TO THANK JOAN AND CHRISTINA. EVERYONE STAY WITH US RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WERE NOT TAKING A BREAK, WERE GOING RIG INTO THIS UPDATE ON THE GIULIANI PROBE. FEDS SCOURING HIS PHONES. THEY OF COURSE HAVE SEARCHED HIS APARTMENT. TODAY HE WAS BACK ON HIS RADIO SHOW QUOTING NONE OTHER THAN RICHARD NIXON. >> IM NOT A CROOK. THEYRE FRAMING ME FOR A VERY SIMPLE REASON. IVE GOT THE GOODS ON JOE BIDEN. IM THE GUY, UNFORTUNATELY, WHO INDIVIDUALLY EXPOSED JOE BIDEN. FIRST IN REGARD TO HIS CROOKEDNESS IN UKRAINE AND THEN WITH REGARD TO THE -- THE HARD DRIVE THAT SHOWS THAT HES BEEN A CRIMINAL FOR 30 YEARS AND THAT HIS SON HAS BEEN FEEDING HIM THE MONEY FOR 30 YEARS. >> RUDY GIULIANI KNOWS HIS WAY AROUND PUBLIC AND POLITICS AND HISTORY. HES GOT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO RICHARD NIXON IN THE YEARS AFTER HE CLAIMED HE WAS NOT A CROOK. GIULIANI IS UNDER LEGAL PRESSURE. HES GOT AN EVIDENCE-FREE ATTACK THAT HES ACCUSING THE FEDS OF COMMITTING A NEW CRIME OF FRAMING HIM. HE HASNT SUBSTANTIATED THAT IN ANY WAY. IT SEEMS LIKE THE PRESSURE MAY BE GETTING TO HIM AS HE CONTINUES TO TALK ON THE RADIO AND OTHER AIR WAVES. IM JOINED NOW AS PROMISED, NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL. NEAL, I ALWAYS TRY TO KEEP IT REAL WITH VIEWERS. I TRY TO EXPLAIN IF WERE SEVERAL DAYS INTO A STORY, WHY ARE WE HERE AGAIN? SOMETIMES THERES BIG NEW DEVELOPMENTS AND SOMETIMES THERES JUST THE WAY PEOPLE ACT. MR. GIULIANI CANT STOP TALKING. WHAT I JUST PLAYED IS BRAND NEW. AND SO HES FEEDING THIS STORY AND HE SEEMS TO BE FEEDING A NARRATIVE LEGALLY WHERE HE WANTS TO SAY THAT HIS OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES AGAINST THE BIDENS, AND HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO OPPOSE THE ELECTION, BUT HIS OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES MADE HIM A TARGET AND OTHERWISE HE WOULDNT BE IN THIS TROUBLE. YOUR RESPONSE TO THE NIXON CLAIM, WHICH IS JUST WOW, AND THAT TYPE OF DEFENSE HES OFFERING. >> SO HERES WHY ITS IMPORTANT, ARI, FOR OUR VIEWERS. FIRST, IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT RUDY AND RUDYS TRAJECTORY. I MEAN THIS IS A GUY WHOS GONE FROM BEING THE TOP PROSECUTOR IN NEW YORK TO BEING TREATED AS A COMMON CRIMINAL AND INVESTIGATED BY THE VERY OFFICE HE USED TO RUN. HIS DEFENSE IS IM NOT A CROOK, QUOTING NIXON? THATS NOT PARTICULARLY GOOD. THE FBI HAS SEIZED TEN OF HIS DEVICES PURSUANT TO A WARRANT, PURSUANT TO A FEDERAL JUDGES ORDER. THE JUDGE HAD TO CERTIFY THAT PROBABLE CAUSE EXISTED TO BELIEVE A CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITTED. SO THATS NUMBER ONE. AND LOOK, BASED ON THE FACT THAT GIULIANI BLURTED OUT ON NATIONAL TV THAT TRUMP WAS PAYING OFF STORMY DANIELS, IM PRETTY SURE PROSECUTORS WOULD BE HAPPY WITH ANY ONE OF THE TEN DEVICES, LET ALONE ALL TEN. THATS NUMBER ONE, WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT RUDY. BUT THE SECOND AND MORE INTERESTING QUESTION IS WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THE TRUMP INVESTIGATION, BECAUSE THERES A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE WONDERING, LIKE TRUMP LOOKS LIKE HE MIGHT GET AWAY WITH THE STORMY DANIELS STUFF, WITH OTHER FINANCIAL IMPROPRIETYIESMPROPRIE JANUARY 6th, WITH WHAT HAPPENED IN GEORGIA IN TERMS OF ELECTION PRESSURE, AND UKRAINE AS WELL. AND HERE NOW YOUVE GOT THE GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATORS WITH A CLOSE CONFIDANT OF THE PRESIDENT AND POTENTIALLY VERY SERIOUS CRIMES THAT RUDY GIULIANI HAS COMMITTED. RUDY ISNT EXACTLY THE MOST LOYAL PERSON. SO I THINK IF YOURE DONALD TRUMP, YOURE WORRIED RIGHT NOW ABOUT WHAT GIULIANI KNOWS AND WHAT HES GOING TO SAY IN EXCHANGE FOR A DEAL. >> YEAH. I THINK THAT ALL MAKES SENSE. AND WHETHER GIULIANI IS USING THE AIR WAVES AND HE HAS HIS REGULAR RADIO SHOW, OF COURSE HE CAN DISCUSS WHAT HE WANTS ON IT. WHETHER HES USING THAT AND OTHER INTERVIEWS TO SIGNAL SOMETHING TO DONALD TRUMP AND THEY REMAIN FIGHTING OVER ALLEGEDLY LEGAL FEES AND OTHER THINGS IS ALSO A POSSIBILITY. WEVE CERTAINLY SEEN OTHER PEOPLE IN THE TRUMP ORBIT DO THAT. IT APPARENTLY WORKS BETTER THAN CALLING HIM DIRECTLY, SO WEVE BEEN TOLD. WITH THAT IN MIND, THOUGH, GIULIANI WASNT MAKING, I WOULD SAY, GREAT LINEAR SENSE IN THIS NEXT PASSAGE IM GOING TO PLAY. THIS IS AIRING ON MSNBC FOR THE FIRST TIME. ITS BRAND NEW FROM THE RADIO SHOW AS GIULIANI DISCUSSES HOW THE FEDS WANT TO GET HIM AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS COME UP. SEE IF YOU CAN FOLLOW THIS, NEAL. >>> ARE WE A STUPID PEOPLE? WHY, WHY WOULD THE CHINESE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT INVEST OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN AN INVESTMENT FUND WITH WHITEY BULGERS NEPHEW, HUNTER BIDEN, AND JOHN KERRYS STEPSON. DOES IT TAKE THAT MUCH TO FIGURE IT OUT AND CAN YOU NOW FIGURE OUT WHY CHINA PUT ME IN JAIL? BECAUSE IM WILLING TO SAY THAT. >> NEAL? >> WELL, I DONT HAVE A DEGREE IN RUDYESE OR WHATEVER THAT LANGUAGE IS. I CANT MAKE TOO MUCH HEADS OR TAILS ABOUT IT. IF IM DONALD TRUMP, THE LAST THING I WANT GIULIANI TO MENTION IS WHITEY BULGER. WHITEY BULGER WAS AN FBI INFORMANT WHO TURNED ON THE MOB. THAT CANT BE GOOD COMFORT FOR TRUMP RIGHT NOW. AND GIULIANI MENTIONED IT I THINK BECAUSE HES SAYING HUNTER BIDEN WORKED AT A FIRM WITH BULGERS NEPHEW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND IF IM RUDY GIULIANI, THE LAST GAME I WANT TO BE PLAYING RIGHT NOW IS GUILT BY ASSOCIATION SINCE RUDY HAS ENCOUNTERED MORE CRIMINALS IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS THAN I THINK HE HAS IN HIS ENTIRE PROSECUTORIAL CAREER. BUT I THINK ALL OF THIS IS GETTING BUNDLED INTO THIS WHOLE QUESTION GIULIANI, AND I THINK THIS IS WHY HES DOING THESE INTERVIEWS ON TV AND RADIO, HES TRYING TO GET DONALD TRUMP TO PAY HIS LEGAL BILLS. CALL ME A SKEPTIC WITH ALL DUE DEFERENCE TO AMERICAS MAYOR HERE, DONALD TRUMP DOESNT PAY HIS OWN LEGAL BILLS. YOU THINK HES REALLY GOING TO PAY SOMEONE ELSES? >> RIGHT. >> AS THEY SAY, CRIME DOESNT PAY, AND APPARENTLY NEITHER DO CRIMINALS. GIVEN THE QUALITY OF RUDYS WORK PRODUCT FROM FOUR SEASONS LANDSCAPING TO WHAT HE DID WITH STORMY DANIELS TO HIS ELECTION FILINGS OVER THE FALL IN COURT, I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF DONALD TRUMP ACTUALLY RELEASES A STATEMENT DEMANDING PAYMENT FROM GIULIANI. >> WELL, THIS IS A FAIR POINT AND THIS ISNT EVEN SUPREME COURT, KATYAL, THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE KATYAL. IF YOU WATCH SOMEONE DINE AND DASH AND SKIP OUT ON THEIR OWN DINNER BILL A BUNCH OF TIMES, THATS NOT THE PERSON THATS GOING TO TAKE YOU OUT FOR DINNER AND ACTUALLY PAY THE BILL. I THINK THATS FAIR. WE WILL CALL THAT COMMON SENSE KATYAL. WEVE GOT THIS INFORMATION THAT SINCE OCTOBER 19 THE FEDS HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT WHATEVER GIULIANI WAS TRYING TO DO ON BEHALF OF THESE POTENTIALLY FOREIGN NATIONALS OR FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS. "THE DAILY BEAST" REPORTS THIS EX-UKRAINIAN OFFICIAL NEEDSED A VISA. ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI SAYS FROM VISAS OR BEYOND, HE SEES GIULIANI FLIPPING. >> YOU THINK RUDY GIULIANI WILL TURN ON TRUMP? >> 100%, YEAH. MY FRIEND, MICHAEL COHEN, SAID HE WOULD TAKE A BULLET FOR THE PRESIDENT. BUT WHEN PUSH CAME TO SHOVE AND IT WAS ABOUT HIS FAMILY AND HES GOT A PRIORITY TO THAT, I THINK THAT THE MAYOR HAS SAID IT. LOOK, IVE GOT INSURANCE. >> IT IS TRUE THE MAYOR MADE THAT REFERENCE TO INSURANCE AND THEN SORT OF WALKED IT BACK. EVERYTHING IN THAT LANDSCAPE SOMETIMES IS A JOKE. BUT NEAL, IM CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK SPECIFICALLY THE REPORTING ON THE VISA. WEVE TALKED ABOUT A LOT THATS BAD FOR GIULIANI. THERE ARE THOSE THAT SAY IF THE CASE TURNS ON OR IS PRIMARILY ABOUT A CITIZENS NEED FOR A VISA, THAT MAY SOMEHOW PROVIDE A LEGAL HELP OR DEFENSE FOR HIM IF HES NOT WORKING DIRECTLY ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT OF UKRAINE AT LARGE. >> YES. SO FAR I HAVENT SEEN THE DEFENSE, I THINK, STORY. I DONT THINK WHAT RUDY HAS SAID IS MUCH OF A DEFENSE. THERES NOTHING WRONG IF YOURE A U.S. CITIZEN WITH WORKING FOR A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT. YOU JUST HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT AND THATS AN IMPORTANT THING. THATS PART OF A VERY IMPORTANT LAW THATS ENACTED TO PREVENT BASICALLY FOREIGN INFLUENCE IN OUR GOVERNMENT. AND THE IDEA THAT THIS GUY WHO WANTED THE VISA, WHO WAS A PROSECUTOR, IS ACTING INDEPENDENTLY OF THE GOVERNMENT, I GUESS THAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE. BUT AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THE REPORTING, IT SOUNDED LIKE THERE WAS MORE GOVERNMENTAL, UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT INTEREST IN THIS OFFICIAL VISIT IN THE UNITED STATES. IT WASNT JUST THE GUY COMING TO BRING HIS KIDS TO DISNEY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE IS A REAL CONCERN HERE. IT LOOKS LIKE GIULIANI WAS SO EAGER TO PLEASE THIS GUY, SHOKIN, BECAUSE HE WAS WIDELY VIEWED AS AN EFFECTIVE ADVOCATE FOR A CORRUPT REGIME. AND SO THATS WHY THE AMBASSADOR -- OR THE U.S. AMBASSADOR YOVANOVITCH TRIED TO PREVENT THAT VISA AND UNFORTUNATELY SHE WAS FIRED. ALL PART OF A REALLY NEFARIOUS THING WHICH THE FEDS WILL INVESTIGATE AND GET TO THE BOTTOM OF NOW. >> AND AS YOU EXPLAIN, A VISA COULD SOUND SMALL, IF ITS A WORK VISA, MARRIAGE VISA OVER HERE, OR IT COULD BE SOMETHING VERY BIG IF AS YOU SAY THERES A WHOLE COUNTRY BEHIND IT THAT HAS GOT OTHER FOREIGN POLICY INTERESTS WITH THE U.S. SO VISA AS A TERM MIGHT BE MISLEADING HERE. IF THERE ARE CHARGES, THATS THE KIND OF THING I WOULD EXPECT TO BE LITIGATED OUT. NEAL, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE AT THE TOP OF OUR BROADCAST.
