A͏s͏mongold VS Keemstar On Online Harassment - The Problem With LivestreamFail

what happened to reckful and auntie opening up about harassment needs to be a learning moment LSF needs to take a long hard look at itself well it's not a hundred percent of the users here a sizable number plan to toxic narratives that can be detrimental in mental health for example here's the threat on reckful proposing over twitter a few hours before he committed suicide this guy is such an infant it's pathetic on Medicaid mental illness yeah I mean like oh no no no Byron you just posted cringe bro like I mean what the [ __ ] is wrong with this guy how many more times does he get to use that excuse and not got 13 points and the person that said that it was a [ __ ] take got -6 no it there's no reason for this to happen the mods just have to do a better job if you see a hate threat about somebody just delete it like all they need to do is just make rule like okay well if there's a hate threat about somebody just delete the hate threat hate threads add no value they just make the platform worse and they're also against reddit score rules in a lot of ways I'm surprised too subreddit at certain points hasn't gotten quarantined hate towards livestream fails is unjust this reddit page simply shows clips of funny stream moments fails wins and streamers breaking rules livestream fails is no different from these eSport journalists toward the mainstream media cover same stories stopped supporting censorship you're right that it's similar to mainstream media in the fact that it often misrepresents what people say and do on stream in order to promote a specific agenda LSF can be redeemed but the criticism is deserved I don't understand why LSF is such a big deal to streamers just don't go there and read stuff it's detrimental to your mental health like forsen does issue is that even when you don't read it it's undeniably a large part of the community and the content that's posted there will influence public opinion and make its way back to your stream and social media so viewers opinions are a problem I got idea get off the internet so you are safe from others opinions this is a completely reductive way of looking at the problem and ignores the entire premise of why people are concerned with LSF when viewers have their opinions influenced by biased sources and misinformation how is that not an issue may I remind you what she said because it seems you have forgotten the it I was referring to was the intentionally misleading information and out of context clips that are used for the sole purpose of pushing a false narrative about someone maybe that was unclear but I'm surprised you disagree you've had one hundreds of people do the same thing to you the overall point that you're trying to make as LSF shouldn't exist because people will have a bad opinion of a streamer and there will go to their stream but you say streamer that is clearly biased in favor of streamers your opinions on LSF is sending hate to LSF small brain nu L when did I say LS F shouldn't exist I was being dramatic but if you want to criticize LS f then LS f can criticize streamers sure LS f can criticize streamers but can you agree that there's a difference between criticism and misinformation give me an example of the misinformation sure this week xqc talked about paid charity events and was kept out of context and used to demonize other streamers who previously did charity streams under a also sumption explain how it was out context xqc was right some streamers do get paid to do charities how is LSF to blame what did LSF do wrong it was out of context because xqc went on to clarify and explain the situation in more detail but that was left out LSF is to blame because it caused them to attack other innocent streamers who were doing charity streams under the assumption that they were doing it for money so you're going to honestly say that no one watching xqc when he said this live on his stream left that stream questioning stream as if they get paid for charity events it was only the LSF clip that caused people questioning streamers no it wasn't only the LSF clip that caused it but LSF was certainly a contributing factor in promoting it and spreading a false narrative that streamers had to defend themselves from false narrative so are you saying that nice trainers get paid for charity events what xqc was not false in the clip is not a false narrative you are just wrong reality some streamers get paid to do charity events clip most streamers get paid to do charity clips actual xqc statement some streamers get paid to do charity events false narrative X streamer does paid charity events and lied about it does that make sense most some not really much of a difference xq c and his statements are number one reason people questioned other streamers about Thea charity event to blame LSF seems incredibly dishonest there's a huge difference between most and some some could mean 2 percent most means at least 50% FL SF is where the misinformation is distributed how are they not partially at fault it's not misinformation it's a clip of what he actually said in that moment most later he said some regardless the result is the same viewers will question stream as if they get paid for charity LSF did nothing wrong witch hunting other stream was based on a false narrative is 100% wrong them having to come out and defend themselves from a lie is also wrong LSF is partly responsible for both of those things and should exercise better moderation to avoid misinformation being spread it's not a false narrative he said what he said on clip yes it is it left out additional context and by leaving it out people got the wrong idea about what actually happens that is literally a false narrative have you ever shown a clip on any of your platforms out of context ever probably yeah I know for a fact you have then why did you ask just so we're clear you're guilty of the same exact thing that you're accusing LSF of I think we all are that doesn't mean we are immune from criticism for doing it LSF included oh yeah keemstar yeah I got in a debate with keemstar yesterday on Twitter so keemstar was saying that LSF is completely innocent didn't do anything wrong we got to the point in the argument where it's like well streamers can criticize streamers can criticize LSF or sorry I have construe psy streamers with streamers can't criticize lol SF right and that's basically what happened now I was kind of annoyed by that honestly and I thought it was kind of it was a dumb I expected like something something smarter at the keemstar I thought that was kind of dumb and I don't know really why he said it the way he did it didn't really make a lot of sense to me to be completely honest to you guys it just didn't smart knocking sir well the keemstar is a smart guy like he's a smart guy he's run a YouTube channel forever he's come out ahead like every single controversy that's ever happened keemstar has weathered the storm like and that that's got a stamp that's gotta mean something right I mean like this guy can survive a nuclear explosion it doesn't matter like he can [ __ ] he could call people the n-word he can DOX them he can [ __ ] drive somebody or at least participate and you know making somebody mentally ill that ultimately led to their suicide and all of these things are fine and nothing gets them like it's [ __ ] he's Teflon man nothing sticks and and to an extent I'm like wow that's that's kind of impressive you know I mean not in a necessarily a good way but it's impressive regardless and I see what happens with this guy and so I I don't know like III don't understand why like to me it was weird like I didn't understand why he didn't see my point and it felt like he was trying to misunderstand what I was saying which is one thing that I don't like because whenever people you know people they take what you say and then they turn it into they turn it into something that's not and that that's very very annoying to me especially like and then he and then one thing he said to me is like we'll have you ever taken anything out of context I'm like yeah probably but yeah I mean sure probably and I think that the way that you handle like here's a bit of advice right whenever you have somebody who's very accusatory or anything like that who's like super super vindictive and accusatory the best way to handle it is to just be completely honest with them because it takes the wind out of their sails completely because if you just say yeah like they weren't expecting to see that to say that you know and it's the best way to have like an honest conversation is it's kind of like the best exposure for bad ideas is sunlight sometimes it's kind of the same way and like I I don't know like the LSF thing obviously like there's been a lot of people talking about LSF recently and I can see why of course and LSF like this is kind of like my opinion on it is that LSF is redeemable I don't think that LSF is irredeemable like for example I remember all the time like where I would just go watch clips of Shroud playing pub G like that's it I just watched clips of shroud playing pub G and it was great now here's what my concern is without with LSF is let's say we shut down LS f let's say we decide all the streamers get together they lobby with it here's how to shut it down by the way you just DMCA every single clip of yourself on Reddit off of off of Reddit and they won't be able to post anything alright that's how you do it there's no like [ __ ] like magically all I don't know how this works or whatever yeah you just DMCA all of it off ight which could do that immediately and that's that's something that's at their own discretion but I don't want them to do that that's the thing is I don't want them to do that here's why is that you know what happened remember ice Poseidon's shut down and subreddit ice Poseidon 2 happened and then there's another ice Poseidon as well and the sub reddits are just going to that they will multiply and it's it's not actually solving the problem like deleting the subreddit does not solve out the problem and it's not solve the problem that that's really what my concern is you know it used to be safe space where you can have your opinion well the thing is like nobody ever wants to have different opinions in the same place like most people just want their opinions to dominate other people can't destroy negative energy well you can in a way right you can minimize it you're never actually going to destroy it but you can minimize it to a point where it's negligible and the community doesn't necessarily reward it and I think that's really what the main problem is was something like Reddit it's like if somebody makes a really like a bad joke like a mean joke about some some streamer and then you know it's funny for I mean it's genuinely funny right I mean let's not pretend like there are never any funny jokes that are made at other peoples expense there's plenty of them but the fact is that you have LSF and those comments get up voted and it creates a feedback loop that rewards people for [ __ ] on streamers and [ __ ] on other people and that's actually what the problem is that's what the issue is it's the the reward structure that's around it and that's what I don't like the problem is social media don't use it problem solved that's I feel like that's probably the most reductive way of looking at it and I I disagree with that completely and here's why so I know that there's a lot of people that like they use the one head the one hand logic oh okay well if you don't like if you don't like LSF then just don't read LSF well here's what the problem is is it for example my comment about the charity stream on Thursday went on LSF and that I had people that weren't watching my stream but they saw LSF read that and then come to my stream so what happens is there's a feedback loop where the person says something and then it gets clipped and it gets put on this third party website and you know whether it be reddit or Twitter or anything like that people discuss what's happening and they create a negative like a negative sentiment about that person and then they take that negative sentiment and then they inflict it on the person by going back to their stream so it does come back around and [ __ ] you in the ass and that's basically what it is basically that's what happens is that you have these people and they go and they they put up these what he call they put up these threads about somebody and the thread is deliberately done it's deliberately written in a way to promote like some degree of a false narrative and like one thing like was really surprising to me about the keemstar situation was that like he's been victim of mischaracterization and clips taken out of context more than anybody on the internet so like he knows more than anyone how much of a detriment that is to somebody and even if he feels like it shouldn't bother him like mentally or it shouldn't bother you mentally well no I mean like I know he he feeds off it sure but like what I'm saying is like kiemce says like according to him there are a lot of flips that have been taken out of context is that right a lot of clips of him have been taken out of context according to Keene and from that logic it would make sense that he would not want to see something that proliferates taking context to taking Clips out of context you see what I'm saying so what ends up happening is that um you know he has a cup taken out of context and let's say he thinks that that should not bother you mentally at all he still lost his G fuel sponsorship over that he still lost other sponsorships over that so even if you can make an argument that it doesn't actually hurt you emotionally or mentally or it shouldn't you can't make an argument that it will not affect you well what I'm saying is like good know that you might think that it's good but if you understand it from his perspective it would not be good because from his perspective a clip that was used to mischaracterize him in a way that he did not intend was then used to cause him to lose financial stability so I don't think that's a good idea right like fundamentally like everybody can can clap and cheer for this because it's keemstar but the reality here is that this could happen to anybody that this could happen to anybody you could have a clip taken out of context or you could have something that you say it's like there's no there's like nothing else really to it and it's just been here for a new account on YouTube I don't think it's really baiting or anything like that I mean like maybe you never know what keemstar but that's not the main thing this is wrong about the Zion man defending keemstar is never the route even if you ideologically think it's sound well the only reason that people are telling me that is because they're so emotionally invest in a situation that they can't look at it logically I'm discussing a situation that has a parallel to what we're talking about on here so obviously yeah it just just let us just listen to what I'm saying rather than just immediately you know go into some conclusion and I'm defending keemstar I think keemstar has done a lot of bad [ __ ] and I think that also some of the bad [ __ ] that he's done is not actually as bad as people make it out to be but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a hundred other things they did that were bad too so it's like if I say oh well you know maybe he didn't do this one bad thing and this is you know misunderstood then that that means that I'm okay with everything else today does so it's not that's not it at all and so anyway the point that I'm making here is this it is not a good it's not healthy for the platform to have a to have a space where people can lose their livelihoods based off of something that is intentionally misrepresented that is not good and I I think everybody can agree with that like let's say you have a sponsorship for 20 grand a month let's say you're a smaller streamer you've got a sponsorship for a thousand dollars a month you've got a G fuel sponsorship and you make total three thousand dollars a month and you have a clip taken of yourself that's out of context it was like maybe something bad that you said it's like a two out of ten on the bad scale and the clip makes it seem like it's a seven and what ends up happening to you is that you lose your sponsorship and you go down for making $2,000 a month to you sorry three thousand dollars a month making - that is a massive [ __ ] difference that is a massive [ __ ] difference and I don't think that's something that we should we should look forward to or promote or or celebrate at all and that's pretty much the way that I will get it how are you I'm doing good man and don't rich people don't know what small what small is well what I mean is like even for keemstar for example like he's had this happen and that's why what I'm trying to say is he's had this happen and based off of that I expected him to have like a better perspective on it considering it's something that's happened to him now obviously that didn't happen but that was my expectation does that make sense no offense but imagine a world that uh needs you of all people to make us twenty people well yeah well a lot of people don't get this because everybody likes to celebrate whenever somebody else somebody else has something bad happened to them even it whenever the bad thing that happens to that person is unfair and I feel like that's a very very bad it's a bad precedent to set I don't like that at all and yeah you have to be consistent because you're not consistent then people are just going to use the same [ __ ] against you I didn't know about did not try okay it's the way it goes the way I look at it is that with big streamers like you should create a new reddit and not allow your videos to be on LSF the moderate didn't you read it the more conscious manner um I think that there's value to be had with a community-driven subreddit and like with with streamers moderating it I feel like you get into the situation where there'd be almost like no it's very hard to actually give constructive criticism on reddit and I don't know exactly why that is I feel like it probably does have to do with the upvote and downvote system but there's plenty of other things that are kind of uh that do contribute to that as well and I don't know like maybe that would be a good idea it's just I'd like all the streamers kind of make their own subreddit but whenever someone does not believe in mental health and pops up one will you send a breakfast away deserves to give [ __ ] well here's an example right so let's say somebody steals something and then the person somebody decides that you know what he was stealing something I'm just gonna shoot him and he shoots the guy and kills him well he was doing something wrong right he was stealing something but did he deserve to get shot probably not that's what I'm really trying to say is that just because something bad happens to a bad person doesn't mean that the system that created the bad outcome is a good system and that's what I'm talking about now you can be happy about keemstar getting you know getting in trouble or losing a sponsor's or whatever you want to call it but I don't think that necessarily means that it's a good thing for the platform and naturally the main thing that I'm trying to get at does that make sense and I think this is kind of what the issue is with what the cancel culture and this is why it keeps happening is because people end up celebrating it whenever it happens to a person that they don't like and because that happens there's somebody that doesn't like everybody and that we that way somebody every single time would ever think it canceled has a group of people that wants it to happen and that's what it is and Rhona hear your opinion how you'd hold the key him accountable for his actions then well if I was listen if I was YouTube because YouTube is obviously the platform that uh what he caught that Keane was mainly on is I would look and I would see if you know he's a positive influence on a community or not and I'd make a decision based off of that I'm not gonna say that I would ban him i don't know like probably maybe i don't know but the point that I'm making is it's possible I would perma ban 100% well I don't want to say that would permabanned somebody like I don't know exactly every single little bad thing came stars done but I would look into it and make a decision of course and I think that's really what it is like I don't want to go on it looks bad if I have an argument with somebody on Twitter and then the next day I go on my stream and I say I want to ban them on on YouTube you know it just doesn't it doesn't look good for me so hopefully that makes sense so it doesn't allow any talk to people bad to be endorsed by these companies just encourage Berg this is acting the same line well I think so to an extent but the problem is that once you start going after people's sponsors you create a system where you reward people and you send your audiences after innocent people that are just working at the company like I remember whenever the keemstar versus h3h3 thing happened tons of people that worked at GE fuel we're getting attacked by you know h3h3 fans because they wanted to get keemstar taken off of the brand and that's not something that's good at all I don't like that at all and I didn't keep start that [ __ ] though uh I mean you can say like whoever started or whatever but the point is that like whenever you have people go after sponsors the outcome of that is you just you militarize your audience into attacking innocent people that work at the company and that's what it comes down to if you feel that way you should just message and send some of the other customer support and make a decision that way but I think going after people sponsors is a bad idea and it's not healthy for the for the space at all men that that's right what are this and everyone starts losing yeah exactly and when an older probably lose their job if they said some things that game stars has yeah you're probably right I mean I pretty much agree with that but the thing is like as I said I mean you guys have to understand like I'm I'm not really defending what keemstar has done or anything like that but I do think that it's important to whenever you have somebody who is you know acting like an [ __ ] that you don't just resort to doing things unfairly because you feel like they deserve it because if you do that and we're not gonna say you're no better than they are but you're still a piece of [ __ ] and that's what I think about it then the thread yesterday open up some dialogue between us and our users which confirmed our suspicions that the subreddit needs drastic change the first of these changes is becoming more transparent in the actions we take and why we take them in all honesty the mod team has been in shambles for a long time now moderator burnout took a hold a while ago and there's been a little effort put into fixing it so we feel now is the time the first change we will be making is a rules reform the rules are in a sorry state with a lot of gray areas for individual mod biases to hide in and strange inconsistencies that are very confusing for a user's perspective these inconsistencies make it appear as if harassment is allowed against some streamers or not others or if we're defending aberrant behavior while censoring the good people the changes were making with the first step will be implemented very soon aimed at solving these problems the second installment of this change will be in the form of a concise infraction system as mentioned we had okay so basically people getting in trouble another one that proposed changes with we allow streamers to opt out of being posted on the subreddit currently we do not allow this as any internal vote within our mod team but this decision was made before all the recent drama and needs to be reconsidered additionally we realized that a sub right was almost a million people cannot be managed by a small handful of mods that we currently have and we will be looking for more moderators as soon as possible so um obviously this is good like obviously this is a good thing would you opt out of LSF no I mean probably not I mean like the thing is that if the here's what they you don't need to have streamers opt out of LSF all you need to do is that whenever a thread is made that's just for the intent of [ __ ] on a streamer or there are comment chains being made that are just shooting on streamers and it just turns into a hate thread just delete those comments that there's no value in having them and I don't think that this is some sort of like a this is not a positive force to have people just like oh what are you saying or abandon criticism no but like a feeding frenzy talking [ __ ] about another person over and over and over and just like people like basically circle jerking about how much of a piece of [ __ ] they are like this is not healthy for a community there's no reason for it to exist and I don't think that it helps anybody buy it buy it existing that's where what it comes down to but it's censorship well it is it is censorship and I don't think that it's a I don't think it's a bad thing in this case it's important to make sure that you grow your community in a healthy way and you just just delete hate threads right that would be [ __ ] that would be a brilliant way of dealing with it just right off the top just [ __ ] delete hate threads like harassing somebody and just like personally attacking another streamer or another person online or on Twitter or something like that this is not something that I think is worth worth keeping this is not something that's good it adds no value at all it's a pure negative [Music]

Channel: Asmongold TV

Views: 557,777

Keywords: asmongold, asmongold reacts, daily dose of asmongold, asmongold twitch, asmongold highlights, asmongold youtube, asmongold best, asmongold funny, catdany, asmongold tv, asmongold channel, asmongold keemstar, keemstar, keemstar livestreamfail, keemstar drama, asmongold livestreamfail, asmongold reckful, reckful, reckful death, reckful livestreamfail, reckful dead, reckful drama, keemstar debate, asmongold debate, asmongold reddit, reckful asmongold, asmongold keemstar drama

Id: tKUY2FYO0Tg

Length: 25min 43sec (1543 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 05 2020