2005 Ford F150 5.4L - missfires, intermittent rough running, rattles and knocks, P0021/P022

howdy folks welcome back got another broken Ford truck to play around with this is a 2005 Ford f-150 it's got the three valve triton Hand Grenade under the hood change engine light is on it's definitely got a misfire I can hear it's got the classic Ford cam phase or death rattle on start up I believe it's been to another shop supposedly it's had spark plugs and coils installed it's got a laundry list of DTC's stored in the computer so I think this is gonna be a good one okay I'll let the autel do its thing so it's got nine DTC's stored in the PCM which is not good so we got timing codes looks like intake camshaft / lien on bank one and then multiple misfire codes three five seven misfire on first thousand revolutions cam position sensor Wow ignition coil primary secondary then there's a bunch of ABS stuff that we probably aren't going to worry about and stuff for the transfer case integrated wheel in-circuit solenoid so we're not gonna worry about that fit right now we're working on the engine we got to figure out what's going on so I don't know if it's out of time or we got a bad cam sensor or crank sensor little family what are we doing thank you know you gonna get all dad's tools oh that's the sharpest one can you put that back please [Applause] yeah but three-year-olds don't need to hold wood chisels that's a stud finder how about the pliers you don't put out fires there and yeah so be careful with him [Applause] the fuel trims aren't great but they don't look like they're totally out of whack now why that long term fuel trim is so high definitely got some mechanical noise over here there's no way those coils at every place either I can't find misfire counters on the autel for this sport so I just wanted me generic obd2 the mode six data it looks like cylinder number three is our our main problem five and seven have a little bit but you a cylinder three seems to be the the bad one this is a Ford so should be one two three four on this Bank I come down here to unplug the coil I don't hear a change to you thank you I am okay we're definitely set on song of three this should be five right here yeah makes a big difference right here okay let's look worried about number three for right now well no no customer told me that he had the coils replace said they replaced the coils the boots and the plugs I don't know who they are and I don't know any more details than that but these sure look like factory coils to me they've got the paint marks on them still this one here so longer number one I think maybe I bet has been replaced it looks different than the others but the other seven coils all look the same they all have the same part number so I don't think there's any way that they've changed those those coils out so I guess maybe the easiest thing to do right now would be just switch the coil from three to two and see if our misfire moves with the coil well before we go pulling the coils and doing the switcheroo I think it's time to play around with the new toy this is a 4-channel picot scope it's the automotive variety i bought this brand new from a EES wave so here's our scope unit right here for channel they came out with a new model 44 25 or 40 to 25 whatever this is they came out with a new one that has the smart probes so that when you connect them they automatically detect I don't need that so I bought the old model which is now slightly discounted so it was a good time to buy it I think I've needed one for a long time I've just been been putting it off because it's you know a big chunk of change so it comes with a little selection of back probes and I don't know regular probes and clamps and an attenuator I think this is probably yeah it's a ten to one attenuator so that's good this is our USB cable that should hook up to our PC so this is a secondary ignition test lead so if you have a vehicle that has spark plug wires you can clip this around the spark plug wire and I believe it's a capacitive pickup and then for test leads one for each channel so that's all in that box and then in this box this is an extension lead for a coil on plug ignition so you would plug this into the coil and then plug this end on to your spark plug and then you can use that secondary ignition probe to measure your secondary ignition waveforms just like you could with the normal you know distributor system where it has spark plug wires comes with a ground lead so I also ordered a paddle probe for the coil on plug ignition that's supposed to be here maybe tomorrow then I ordered some various adapters for B n c2 banana Jack and whatnot and then I tried to order the the you test kit which is all the test leads but I guess it's on some kind of indefinite back order so I don't know what's going on AES waves got a lot of stuff on backorder right now it must be stuff coming out of China and they're having trouble getting it because the corona virus or or something like that or I don't know what what their supply chain is but for whatever reason you can't get a lot of stuff right now okay here's a wiring diagram for this coil on plug ignition system so you got a hot at all times goes through a 20 amp fuse through the ignition switch back into the junction box for some reason and then out on a red with light green wire that's going to be a shared power for all of the coils and then the PCM is gonna supply a ground to each one individually to actually fire it so what we're gonna do is go up here to this connector see 139 and put an amp clamp around this red with light clean white green wire okay here's our set up pico scope is here I've got an attenuator on channel 2 channel twos hooked into the primary side of coil number one and then I've got an amp clamp around this red with like like being wire that should be our feed for all of our coils there's that connector right there in front of the ECM and we're gonna go ahead and see what we get on the scope I don't have any fancy screen recorders or anything set up yet this is literally the first time I've ever used it okay I've gotta learn how to use the trigger but I think this is gonna give us what we need to know okay this is fantastic so you can already see the problem the problems right here and I believe on the five for kite and the firing order is like 1 & 3 I don't look it up I think it's all odds and then all evens yeah no that's not exactly right so the firing order on this truck is one three seven six five four eight so we can already see that we would expect to find a problem on cylinder number three because that's the one where we're not seeing firing and we definitely have the problem there so let's see can we see any more detail there hmm I might have my clamp on backwards so let's alright is there an option to invert a channel [Applause] yeah I guess I don't know how to do that all right I'm not gonna make you guys watch me learn how to use the Pico scope so it doesn't really matter man battery life on this thing is horrible because the the I better plug it in there it's gonna die now fast enough fella should I bought a new computer just for the Pico or maybe I just need to buy a new battery this is the junk computer anyway I believe it's good enough for this okay guys maybe maybe we can finally get this to work computer battery died camera battery died screen recorder died alright let's try this again so we're gonna zoom in hopefully how to do it on these two waveforms so here is coil number one here is coil number three firing order is one three something it doesn't matter so here's your control voltage here on the primary side of the coil and the PCM pulls it down to ground three times for your multi strike and here is the current waveform for that coil now you see on the second and third strike here you have a vertical line on the current I believe that is because the magnetic field has not completely collapsed before the PCM starts trying to charge the coil up for the second and third strike now take a look over here at number three coil see how we don't have that vertical line I believe what that's going to indicate to us is that this coil is not building enough magnetic field and then the field is actually completely collapsing before the PCM tries to command the second and third strike so it's pretty cool it shows us definitively that we have a problem with the number three coil it also shows us that we don't have a problem with the EC and I don't suspect there's a crank input problem or anything like that because the PCM is trying to turn that coil on it's just the coils not doing what it's supposed to do so finally at this point I think we can swap the coil from cylinder number three to cylinder number two and see if all this nonsense moves along with it hmm and I took this out it was full of water it's been watered down inside that spark plug well no doubt about it and then the spring is all rusty so I don't know I mean I would think that's enough kV a could jump I could jump that but I don't know that for sure all right let's go ahead and put this in number two I marked it as bad see what happens well crap I fixed it I got nothing now zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero man still got some counts I don't know how often this updates but yeah so I don't know it must have been a bad connection between the coil and the plug there was a bunch of crud down in the bottom of that spark plug well - I blew that all out so there's one 3.now looks fine seven to this is where the bad coil now lives well a few hours later and make my way back to this truck I think when we last left off we had moved the coil from cylinder 3 up to cylinder number 2 and then our misfire went away so at this point I think I don't know what to think either the water inside that spark plug well was the problem or the rust on that the spring inside the the coil boot one of those two was the issue I don't know but it seems to be fine now so I think at this point we should move away from the misfires and trying to figure out what's going on with this timing issue this p 0 to 2 and then we have a p0 345 camshaft position sensor so you see we got a bunch of pending codes here to which some of these I'm sure I set by unplugging things while it was running so yeah I don't know I thought we had a coil F primary voltage for primary something missing coils C primary fault so that's cylinder number 3 so on Ford's it's like ABCD efg that's a is 1 B is 2 C is 3 so munition coil C primary circuit fault that would be some one or number 3 so I probably caused that and then E and F would be what 5 and 7 so that I guess that makes sense I unplugged all those cylinders so okay what's uh let's start it up I guess and see what's going on with these crankshaft or camshaft positions and go from there supervision yeah don't screw up alright since we got the Pico scope out and I don't see anything out of the ordinary on the scan tool as far as Kim you know advanced retired whatever we're gonna try to do a cam crank correlation with the scope [Music] okay worked yeah it looks like it's okay alright one more check I want to make I want to do a manual oil pressure reading so I just took the oil pressure switch out it's in that housing there behind the oil filter and I hooked up a actual oil pressure gauge so fun fact about Ford trucks basically since about 1985 or 86 they've all had fake oil pressure gauges so it shows a gauge on the dash but that gauge is just a switch it doesn't tell you anything other than you have more than seven psi of oil pressure the engines fully warmed up now it still has 30 psi of oil pressure but I have also put it in gear so I can see how the RPMs drop a little bit it doesn't go below 25 so I think we're OK on oil pressure really it runs fine I don't feel a misfire at all it just has that that constant ticking sound even back here you can hear it well if this was one of the overly dramatic hospital-based TV shows that my wife watches instead of a crappy internet video about fixing a truck this is the point in the story where we would have our lab test results back and we'd be sitting down for a meeting with the family telling them to prepare for the worst so at this time I think we should set the misfires aside and worry more about these timing codes so we had a p 0 to 2 camshaft over on bank 2 and a p0 345 for a loss of cam sensor signal now again I don't know what was done if somebody unplugged the cam sensors or the cam the VVT solenoid I really don't know why we have these codes but we have good cam signal on the scope we have good cam timing the waveform that we pulled matches exactly with known good waveforms that I was able to to find for these 5 4 Triton engines so I'm saying at this point the timings good the cams signal is good at least at the sensor and now I'm not checking it at the ECM guess we could be losing it somewhere in the harness but this truck looks pretty clean I kind of doubt it you got good base oil pressure but we have a ticking noise and we also have a pretty pretty severe rattle and startup you know it's got that timing chain slap so probably the tensioners are blown out but they're not bad enough to where it's caused a problem with the timing so we've got to worry mostly I think about this ticking noise right now and I am leaning towards it being one of the cam phasers so what happens in these Ford cam phasers like any other BVT system it uses oil pressure to basically the timing of the camshaft and there's a little slots inside the phaser that fill up with oil and it moves a vein that basically rotates the the sprocket in relation to the camshaft and when they're at idle that's when the engine is idling the camshaft is fully advanced I believe and there's a lock pin that spring-loaded and the lock pin should lock the the two halves of the phaser together and I believe that's the source of the noise on the phasers is this locked pin when it gets oil pressure from the VVT solenoid it pushes a lock pin out and allows the thing to advance so the reason I think that the cam phaser is the source of the noise and not you know like a cam follower or a lifter or that lifter a valve lash adjuster or the camshaft itself is that the ticking noise goes away immediately when you hit the throttle so as an experiment what we can do is unplug the DBT solenoids and try hitting the throttle again and see if the noise remains and I think that will definitively tell us that the problem is in the cam phaser alright in this test both VVT solenoids are unplugged okay now the same test with the BBT solenoids plugged in well I really hope the camera pick that up so when the BBT solenoids are unplugged there is no oil in the cam phasers and it relies on that lock pin to keep the two halves of the phaser locked together and you can hear I think when you raise the RPM that it still has that knocking sound however when you plug the BBT solenoids back in as soon as you touch the the pedal it starts to the camshaft and as soon as it applies oil to that phaser that knocking that ticking sound goes away so after that test I feel pretty confident that this truck needs cam phasers and you know I don't know if that ticking noise was ever really heard anything but it is annoying and if you want it to be to go away I think the only way to do that would be to replace the phasers now I don't know should we go ahead and replace the chains and guides and tensioners and all that crap while we're in there I really don't know I don't only got a hundred nineteen thousand miles on it so that seems unlikely unless the actual guides have broken which you know it's a Ford so that's possible anyway I think the next thing to do would be to talk to the customer so there's a few other kind of odd things here - I had a coil F primary secondary code I didn't see anything on the the Pico when we measured the current ramp on the coils I didn't see anything pulling at an odd amount of current and then we had that piece p0 171 leaned on bank one I think that's probably just because of the coil 3 the cylinder 3 misfire the I believe it was shutting off the injector 2 cylinder number 3 703 is in bank one so I could certainly see that causing a lean code on Bank 1 anyway that's where I'm at with it hey kiddo what are we doing what are we working on yeah well a side project here we got to fix Thomas Green Krusty's strike again this little tiny DC motor one of these little ears was all green and crusty so I just cleaned it off I think we're gonna be able to fix them right up think about eight hands to put this thing back together takes these special three-sided screws screw drivers to you yeah we're working on tongues okay I need the top of Thomas you're welcome yep he sure does okay you got you gotta remember not to put Thomas in the water okay okay now this Chuck doesn't look too bad underneath all things considered its age and being in Illinois not bad at all see this drive shafts pretty rusty that weights are popping off of that and then what always happens with these box frame for words is the eventually the frame starts to go so you see they put a put an extra plate on the inside of there and then you just get that rust jacking in it puffs it out like that eventually it'll break the welds and you know the story yeah doing it on both sides of the transmission crossmember there it is leaking pretty bad something that's looking pretty bad on the engine probably the valve cover gaskets I think see that AC compressor is all wet down there front brake pads are pretty well smoked and then I noticed that the looks like the rear axle seals are leaking besides not too bad but this side must be blown right out pretty much leaking everywhere unless it's coming from the caliper I don't know I think that's I don't know I guess and that's a axle seal it's like somebody just put brakes on it Clips aren't even rusty yet alright I had a little chat with the customer he told me that he still believes that the coils were supposed to have been replaced anyway he tells me that the guy he bought it from guess he hasn't had this truck very long the guy he bought it from thought it had a plugged catalytic converter which is an interesting theory so I think we should be able to see that on our fuel trims if I just kind of give her some gas here should go away rich and it it just doesn't really do that yeah maybe a little bit there on bank too but yeah I don't think so [Music] [Music] [Music] I don't know it seems to drive fine [Music] it's not a powerhouse but it's only have five four it's a pretty good-sized truck I just pulled over we're missing it's missing again pretty bad and now it's happy again man that's crazy why would it do that so it set codes for over and over advanced on both banks so do we have a VVT solenoid problem did I plug those back in so I better check that first yeah whatever it's doing I just caught it it's doing it right now that was crazy it was stuck at full or full advance why did it do that I don't know well this is the event right here I don't know what's I want to make of this so look at what happens on Bank to all sudden the advance just starts going up up up up up from basically zero to 63 and then the advanced error is basically a mirror image of it why would it do that it's like it tried to advance the cam and then I got stuck like at bank one so Bank 1 the actual advance is you know it's like plus or minus two and a half degrees but then it's showing us an error up to I don't know how far this goes it went off the scale up to 60 I'm guessing degrees so I don't know what to make it that seems to happen when I come to a stop after accelerating so let's see if we can duplicate that yeah right there it's doing it right now why is it showing an error on bank 1 so the Pvt solenoids are unplugged right now completely unplugged you see it's just going crazy it's doing whatever it wants [Music] and now it's fine again like it back in now change this is weird [Music] [Music] all I did was restart the engine now it's fine I told you guys it was gonna be a good one yeah that's happy now well the Nats are back so we're going to work around that but what do you guys think about the engine pretty crazy huh we obviously have some major problems with the variable valve timing on this on this engine it seems to happen consistently when you come off of the throttle so you're driving down the road 55 miles an hour you let off pull up to a stop sign all a sudden that the timing just goes crazy and it starts chugging and bucking and shaking and sometimes it wants to die get misfire codes we got more misfire codes on cylinder five cylinder seven so those are both on bank two and you saw that data that we saw on the autel I'm not not 100% sure what to make of that I think it's probably it may not mean exactly what we think it means I think that there's some some coding problems as far as the variable valve timing data on the auto and I don't have the Ford IDs scan tool to confirm that but all right that or that I'm I'm interpreting the data wrong and it doesn't mean what I think it means but not exactly sure why that actual position changes and then the error changes in the opposite direction that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense especially when the duty cycle doesn't change but it doesn't matter because it seems to happen independent of the PCMs control I unplugged both of the the cam the the BBT solenoids and we still had that same problem so whatever it is it's not electrical it is hydraulic I suspect or mechanical so I'd say there's only two options it's got a bad or sticking VVT solenoid or it's got a bad or sticking cam phasor so I think the the plan of attack here is to pull the valve covers pull the vbt solenoids we'll take a look at them and I think we're gonna replace both solenoids in both phasers and that should take care of the problems on this truck so I think we'll start over here on the left side of the engine on bank two and get the valve cover off there see what we see I know it is possible to pull that VVT solenoid without pulling the valve cover but if we got to go out to the phasor anyway might as well just get it off there so it looks like there's a bunch of garbage in 'we pzv system we got the evap stuff over here got the power steering reservoir and that crazy bracket and then the reason I went after that misfire first is that I suspected we were going to pull the valve covers off and get the valve covers off you got to pull the coils out so I wanted to figure out that dead mist before we started messing with the coils okay left-side valve cover is off VVT solenoid is out this takes a t 27 Torx thanks Ford but I'll show you guys cuz it's pretty interesting so there is your problem lady the screens filter screens are blown out and I don't know if you can see it on the camera but the spool is actually held open right now so it's not gonna work like that no sir and pretty sludgy inside the valve covers too so it hasn't been getting the maintenance that it needs but wait there's more let me get a pointing device see if I can show you guys this give the camera a little reach around come on so what we are looking at right now is the timing chain tensioner has a plastic body and can you guys see that little thing right there this little spongy guy right there I believe that's the gasket underneath the timing chain tensioner it is either blown out or starting to blow out so that's not good so a left-hand side valve cover is a walk in the park compared to right side valve cover which is not much fun at all so I actually chose to suck down the AC get the machine on it right now pulling the refrigerant out then I'm gonna take this line loose and up here at the evaporator and pull that accumulator out of there so I have room to room to work on it it's just pretty tight alrighty folks the timing cover is off and we've got some carnage so this is one piece of the right side timing chain guide now on yonder is the other piece of the guide it's a lot to get that out of there see if there's any pieces that might have broken off and made its way down into the oil pan I don't really want to drop the pan but I guess we will if we have to doesn't look too good so there's your second problem lady and that certainly would explain our startup death-rattle but wait there's more take a look at this timing cover so right here nice jb weld job on there looks like at some point in time the serpentine belt tensioner failed and it chewed a hole right through the timing cover it almost cut a window out of it and somebody went ahead and fixed it with some JB well the sad part is it might have actually worked it they would have just done a little bit better job but yeah I couldn't figure out where the oil was coming from the whole right side of the engine is just covered in oil and I thought that the front main seal was blown out which it may be a little bit blown out but not to that degree but yeah the oils coming out of this of this quality repair here so I don't know what we're gonna do about that we're probably looking for a new timing cover so the insides a little bit chewed up to where that timing chains been slapping around in there with that broken guide but you can see right here where that pulley get chewed all the way through the aluminum timing cover pretty crazy it's amazing to me that someone could let something go that long I mean can you imagine the the racket that must have made unbelievable so anyway that's how things go for me it's like the Bermuda Triangle of repairs around here well you guys love carnage and this engine does not disappoint so left side timing chain guide a little bit chewed up right here but not too bad still in one piece both timing chain tensioners look pretty decent still in one piece not too bad on the where those could almost be reused but it goes downhill from there right side timing chain guide which came out in three pieces how's this go I was like this and then this piece goes like this so the big pieces are still here but we are missing that little v-shaped piece no idea where that is probably in the oil pan here is the reluctor wheel for the camshaft position sensor pretty well mangled on this side this tooth here after the Skip tooth looks like it's taken a pretty good beating that is junk but then it gets really bad from there there's the tensioner from the left side I believe and we were right the gasket was blown out but that's not the worst part of it now this one over here on the right side the gasket was completely blown out of the tensioner this couldn't have been holding any oil pressure at all and check out the aluminum flakes inside so I'll give you guys one guess where those aluminum flakes came from well I'll just I'll just show you so I popped a couple of the bearing caps off of the camshaft this is the front one this is actually the first one that I pulled off and it really doesn't look too bad so I thought hey we're gonna get lucky on this engine really it's in pretty good shape then I pulled the right side apart and this is what I found I don't know if you guys will be able to see that but anything you can catch with your fingernail is real bad news so that's junk that's junk that's junk and then the camshaft back here also has corresponding grooves big enough to catch your fingernail so this engine is pretty well pooched well I hate giving good people bad news but there's not a lot of good news on this engine probably the bottom end is okay you know we saw we measured we had good oil pressure but the oil pressure is measured at the bottom end the problem with these modular engines with the vbt setup and maybe it happened on the older ones too I don't know the two valve engines were a lot more reliable so I haven't really been into one of them but the problem with these 3 valve engines is the oil comes up towards the cylinder head on either side and there's kind of a manifold right here behind where the tensioner is and the oil gets directed out to the camshaft up to the VCT solenoid and out to the tensioner and when the tensioner gaskets blow out you'll lose all your oil pressure going to the cylinder head so then you get erratic behavior with your VCT solenoid because if it doesn't have oil it can't advance the phasor so eventually you're gonna have damage to the cam bearings and possibly damage to the roller followers and the lash adjusters and all that stuff because it's just a lack of oil making it to the top end of the engine it's just a really bad design I don't know what what Ford was thinking if they would have just made that gas get a little bit more robust or done it like what other companies do you know where they have the the tensioner is kind of a long bullet shaped design where it uses o-rings instead of a gasket like that it probably would've been fine but they just they just got it wrong and then they made that that same wrong design for what I like seven years or eight years something like that I think from 2004 until I don't know at 11 or something like that they use the same design anyway it's just it's just engineered to fail so the only way to fix this engine I guess there's a couple options we can replace it with a used engine we could replace it with the reman engine or we could replace just the heads with reman heads I asked the machine shop here he said they don't rebuild them they just buy remands and swap him out he's getting me a quote on that but I'm guessing it's gonna be I don't know in the $1,200 range a used engine it's gonna be $1,500 either way we've got to take the intake off gotta take the exhaust manifolds off no matter what we still have to do the timing chains because the junkyard engine they won't warranty the timing chains who told me that straight up because of the you know high number of failures with these engines they won't even warranty him so you have to replace them before you install the engine and you know obviously if we keep this short block we're still gonna have to do the timing chains probably do the oil pump and everything too it's just it's gonna add up to be a lot of money alright folks we're gonna cut it off here I had a feeling this was gonna be a good one or a bad one depending how you want to look at it this is more destruction than I expected to find inside of one hundred and nineteen thousand mile engine it really is I thought we were gonna get get lucky I even told the customer I thought we might be able to just replace the phasors and that one VCT solenoid and send it the road but I'm glad we went a little deeper there was obviously much more wrong with the truck than what first met the eye and yeah there just aren't any good options with these old five fours you know no matter what he does he's gonna have to spend a pile of money to get this thing back on the road if he even chooses to put it back on the road I don't know at this point you just can't come out fixing the timing chains on these old trucks most of them are pretty rusty at this point you know you spend let's say 3000 up to maybe 4,500 dollars at the dealership to get this problem fixed there's no way these trucks even in good condition with all the work done might bring $4,000 maybe 3,500 so you're upside-down on it pretty quickly and you really have to feel sorry for the customer on this one you know he bought this truck about two months ago the previous owner told him that it had a plunked catalytic converter and that's why it was running poorly he took it to a Ford dealership the Ford dealership charged him $500 they changed the spark plugs they told him they change the coils and boots which obviously they did not there's no way those coils and boots are are two months old I just can't see it anyway the charges on $500 for that work and then they shipped it right out the door didn't say a word about the timing chains just let it go and obviously it didn't fix the problem and that's almost unbelievable to mean they had to hear that timing chain rattle so I don't know if there's more to that story than what I'm being told or what's going on but that is pretty ridiculous anyway guys I don't know what's gonna happen if there's gonna be a part two or what this guy's gonna do with this truck they're just like I said really aren't any good options so if he chooses to go forward with it I will try to film it if not then I guess this is the end of the story so thanks guys for watching and I'll see you next time you

Channel: Watch Wes Work

Views: 208,952

Rating: 4.9068136 out of 5

Keywords: Ford, 4.6, 5.4, 6.8, 3 valve, triton, engine, v8, modular, timing, timing chain, cam, phaser, cam phaser, tensioner, cam bearings, oil, timing cover, leak, missfire, miss, coil, p0300, p0303, p0305, p0307, p021, p022, p011, p012, p0345, carnage, fail, mechanic, pico, picoscope, autel

Id: U5Z5sfu6xns

Length: 52min 12sec (3132 seconds)

Published: Sat Jun 27 2020