Please be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello, Jerome. This is the case of<i>
Williams v.
Potts and Carr.</i> Thank you.
Good day, everyone. AUDIENCE: Good day. Ms. Williams, you've asked the
court to administer a DNA test to establish paternity
for your 2-year-old daughter Makayla Brown. Yes, Your Honor. You plan to file a claim
asking that your daughter become the beneficiary
of up to $153,000 in social security
death benefits
over the next 16 years, because her potential father, Mr. Marques Brown,
is now deceased. WILLIAMS: <i> Yes, Your Honor.</i> JUDGE LAKE: <i> Ms. Potts,
you and your daughter,
Ms. Carr,</i> have doubt that your deceased
son is the biological father, and in fact claim that any
number of men in town could be this child's father. BOTH: Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LAKE: So, Ms. Williams, how has the deceased's family
got in the way? Well, Your Honor, it's just... They're, first of all,
in the way of me
getting these benefits, they're just giving me
problems, I'm having issues, and I just don't understand.
I don't, clearly. Because she's a whore.
She's a whore. Clearly, I don't understand. And when this test proves
that the baby is not
my brother's baby, we want her to remove his name
from the birth certificate. Why would you put his name
on the birth certificate when he was dead and nobody
knew that was his baby? He knew it was his baby. CARR: He didn't know. Okay. AUDIENCE: Oh. JUDGE LAKE:<i>
Oh, beautiful little girl.</i> So, Ms. Carr, why do you
have so much doubt? It's not his baby. "I was taking her to
different men's
houses to get... "Throw her private part
a party," is what she would
quote-unquote say. (AUDIENCE GASP) Meaning she goes to
different people's houses, men, and have fun,
and throw her
private part a party. So how you know who
your baby daddy is... Wait, wait, wait. But she was with your brother,
why would you take her to a private parts party? Because my brother had
other girlfriends coming over, and she was angry from that. JUDGE LAKE:<i>
So you would take her
where she wanted to go,</i> <i> or you planned the party?</i> Um, I would take her
where she wanna go, and pick her up, and I would meet some of
the guys sometimes. So you know for certain that she was sleeping around
'cause you were there. I know for certain that she was sleeping with
other people, yes. Is this true?
Were you having
parties with men? Were you sleeping
with different men? CARR: Can I show you,
Your Honor? Yes, Your Honor.
She was taking me to
different men's house. It's not a secret,
so why would I lie about
the baby being his? <i> It's not a secret.</i> CARR: <i> It's not
my brother's baby.</i> <i> Can I show you, Your Honor?</i> JUDGE LAKE: Please, please. So I started out
taking her to Compton, to this person's house,
where I would drop her off, and come back
an hour-and-a-half later
and pick her up, and she would bring
the person outside... Well, she brought
this person outside to say hello to me,
crack a couple of jokes, a little sweaty,
messed up,
here messed up, and now it's time to go. A couple of days later,
I'm taking her to Manchester and McKinley,
dropping her off, and picking her up. This person I never got
the chance to meet, but it's the man, obvious,
because she had me
drop her off, and in that time frame,
within that hour-and-a-half, pick her back up. Then I take her here,
to downtown,
to her friend's house, whom she spent
most of her nights with, and I even let her use
my bus pass to get
back home with on several occasions
from this location. (AUDIENCE MURMURING) So she's been to
that location
more than once? Exactly. That's probably
who the baby daddy is. Okay. Compton... And this was all during
the window of conception? CARR: Yes. Around all. WILLIAMS: No. WILLIAMS: No. JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Williams? He was already dead
when she was taking me
on 5th and Main. He was already dead. CARR: Did you not throw
your private part a party? Is that not your logo? WILLIAMS: No. Oh. Okay. Your Honor, I took her
downtown one time. At the time, did you know
she was cheating,
or you know it now? I know it now because
I took her down... Well, I took her
downtown one time and that's the only time
I knew she was cheating
on my son. WILLIAMS:
Hmm, these names are not...
I know what I know. JUDGE LAKE: All right,
let's talk about
the pregnancy. When did you actually realize
you were pregnant? Um, about close to two months
after I was incarcerated. I had to contact my cousin, and my cousin contacted
Mr. Brown and let him know
that I was pregnant. CARR: No, Mr. Brown found out
she was pregnant from a letter
she sent to the house that was intercepted
by my mom. And then my mom told him
that the letter stated
that she was pregnant, and my brother was like,
"No, she's not, and that's
not my baby." WILLIAMS: Okay. I have... What do you have there, ma'am? I have, uh, letters.
Coincide back
and forth between us. This first letter is dated
November 5. It's a letter from you to... WILLIAMS: <i> Mr. Brown.</i> JUDGE LAKE: <i> Mr... Okay.</i> <i> And it says...</i> (JUDGE LAKE READING) What is this about? About me being pregnant.
I was in the working dorm
and I had to keep it a secret, because if people knew
I was pregnant, they want
to move me out. To general population. And what's the other piece of
evidence you have, ma'am? Um, this is another letter
that I got back from him
that he wrote. This was dated November 29. And it's from... CARR: <i> Him to me.</i> JUDGE LAKE: <i> Him to you.</i> (JUDGE LAKE READING) That's what he wrote to you? CARR: He didn't
sent her anything. And that was 24 days later. You said what, Ms. Carr? He'd tell her anything
while she was in jail. He had girls coming over
left and right. That's just something to feed
her, to ease her mind while
she was behind them bars. Okay, so why are you
so sure he's your
child's father, then? Because I know
what I was doing. Yeah, you also slept with
two of my other brothers. People have condoms. So how are you so sure that
that's my brother's baby? How are you so sure? Because I know. Oh, are you sure of
all your baby daddies? CARR: We're not here for me. Okay, but you need to worry
about your own business
instead of mine. But we can come.
I know what I do
with my private parts. Just like I'd know
what I do with mine. Throw it a party.
She's a whore. Wow. Did you get to speak to him
any more about... Yeah, we had a couple of
telephone conversations when it was actually money on
the phone for him to accept
the collect calls. We had like maybe three
or four conversations. And what were those
conversations about? It's not his baby. Did he ever say
"This isn't my baby"? No, not to me. I don't know what he said
to anybody else, I can only tell you
what he told me. CARR: We hid the letter
from her... We hid
the letter from... He told me that he
wasn't the baby daddy. JUDGE LAKE:
That's what he told you? Yes. When she received
the letter and brought it
to his attention, 'cause she told my mother,
told everybody else
about the letter before we even brought it
to his attention. So when we brought it
to his attention, he told us all at once that
that wasn't his baby. Okay. So at what point,
Ms. Williams, did you find out
that he had passed away? The day after
I called the house. How long was that after
the last time you spoke
with him via mail? I don't know mail,
but maybe three weeks to
a month, with the phone call. With the phone call? I talked to him in
the beginning of May. So the last phone call
you had with him is
the beginning of May. And he passed away... At the end of May. At the end of May. Your Honor, he passed
away on May 23, 2013. So I have to ask,
but I ask respectfully, what happened to your son? My son was standing down
the street from the house getting ready to go party
with his friends, the guy came down in a car
and they shot him right there
on the corner. JUDGE LAKE: <i> I'm so sorry.</i> Is this before or after
Makayla was born? WILLIAMS: Before. Before. When I got the news,
I was, like, already... I was close to the end of
my pregnancy but I was
having issues, so they had me,
like, hospitalized. I had, like, something
called placenta previa. And, you know, I was
constantly having issues
in and out of the hospital, and when I got
the information from Ms. Carr, it kind of sent me
over the edge. So they had to, like, rush me, like, in the process
I had to get
an emergency C-section, it was complications with
the birth and everything. Did you immediately
ask about death benefits
for your child, or how did you proceed
at that point? Well, at the time...
I'm sorry. At the time,
I was incarcerated, so there was
no death benefits
to proceed. There was nothing
I could do but
just have the baby, have somebody come
to pick the baby up. She ain't entitled
to nothing anyway.
That ain't my brother's baby. And then when
was the first time
you two saw the baby? We never saw the baby. She sent the baby home
to one of her friends. Because they wouldn't even
come to pick the baby up. No, because... You never... She never...
You never asked us
to pick that baby up. I had a conversation
with Mr. Brown... POTTS: I was sick
for two years. CARR: But she never
asked me to take the baby. WILLIAMS: I had a conversation
with Mr. Brown... She never asked me to
step up and take the baby. WILLIAMS: I asked him, "Who gonna come
and pick the baby up?" 'Cause I don't have nobody,
I don't really have
family members, so... CARR: He never
mentioned that to us. He was like, "Well, my mamma
says she don't want no more
babies at this house." I was sick, Your Honor.
I was sick. But she never even
ask you to take care of it. No. She just assumed because
she was sick that she
wouldn't take the baby. She just was believing,
if my brother even told her that my mother
wouldn't take the baby, you, as a mother,
could have stepped up the same way you were
calling the house to talk to my brother
and ask my mother, and then we would have
bowed down as a family
and took the baby. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) She never brought that baby
to us and that's where
the doubt lies. And she refused the DNA test. He was like, "My mamma..." I've never refused a DNA test. I offered to pay half. I offered to pay half
on the DNA test. I don't have money
to pay half. I don't! You didn't say that. Your quote-unquote
response was, "I'm not
paying the other half," and I said, "Why not?
The baby's half yours." So you mean to tell me when
I first came back from jail, you didn't ask me
if she can get a DNA test? I told her I would give her
$100 on the DNA test. I told her I would pay
the other $100
to do the DNA test. She wouldn't do it. Wait. So, ultimately,
you feel like you were
chasing her down, trying to get her
to take the DNA test, and she was avoiding it? How did they have to
chasing me down when
I lived in their house? How did they have
to chasing me down? I said I wouldn't pay for it.
I never said I wouldn't take
the test. So now Makayla is
almost two years old. WILLIAMS: She is, still. She just turned two last week. She just turned two. Okay. <i> Have you established any type
of a relationship with her,
Ms. Carr or Ms. Potts?</i> Yes. Franzette was
staying at my house, and she asked me, she take
her other boy to school
and she asked me, "Can I watch Makayla?" I never told her no. I never told her no. So you do have a bond? Does she treat you like
you're her grandmother? Yes. Yes, yes. JUDGE LAKE: She does. And when you look at her,
do you see your son at all? CARR: No. POTTS: No. I even use the website where
you put the two pictures in and it projects an image
of what the baby is
suppose to look like. If I can give you this... JUDGE LAKE: Yes. Jerome, will you hand me that? And this baby is what
the baby should look like. And that's not
what Makayla looks like. So you went to a web site
on your own... Yes. And you put in a picture of... Ms. Williams and... JUDGE LAKE: Ms. Williams and a picture of
your brother. <i> Yes.</i> JUDGE LAKE:<i>
And the baby should
come out looking like...</i> CARR: <i> That.
Something like that.</i> JUDGE LAKE: <i> This.</i> So what we're looking at now is a picture of Makayla, and a picture of
the morphed version
that you did, the mock-up,
using the app. Yes. Where you put in
both of the pictures? Yes. So when you
came up with this, you said this is
absolutely not... Not my brother's baby. And you're concerned that
the baby looks nothing like... Nothing like her. Makayla. Or nothing like Marques. Your Honor,
I have a picture, too. Of me and Makayla. Yes. You do? I'd like to
see that, Jerome. CARR: Makayla don't look like
none of my mom's grandkids. They don't look like
each other. JUDGE LAKE: This is
a picture of Makayla
and Ms. Potts. <i> You say there's
no resemblance?</i> POTTS AND CARR: <i> No.</i> CARR: <i> Makayla doesn't look
like my mother at all.</i> WILLIAMS: <i> Is she her mom?</i> Why does she have
to look like y'all? I don't get it. CARR: It's her daddy's mamma. She don't have to look
nothing like y'all. CARR: She should look something like that. She looks like me
'cause she's mine. She looks like me.
My DNA made her. But ultimately,
DNA does not lie. And I know that's why
you're here today. Okay, Your Honor,
I have more evidence, also. Oh, I'd like to
see that. Jerome. I would like to know why,
if they're claiming
the baby isn't his, why did they put her name
in the obituary? CARR: Because
my mother made me. I was forced to let
that baby's name go
inside of that obituary. Because you
didn't want to? No. No, because
it's not his baby. (READING) <i> And Makayla Brown
is listed last.</i> CARR: <i> Yes.</i> And why did you have her
put it in the obituary? I made her put it in there.
She told me, "Don't." I just did it 'cause
I'm a Christian person, and trying to be faithful. WILLIAMS: Really? CARR: Really. WILLIAMS: Really? CARR: She let you
come live there. Really?
You were homeless. I know I was,
and I never said no. Homeless. With nowhere to go. You're right. So, really, yes, she did. And you mom
did take me in. She did allow you
to come in. And I thank her very much
for helping me with my kids, and living there and
all of this other stuff. So, really, yes,
she is a Christian. You can't take that
from her, really. But there's too many extras. There really is. POTTS: There's not
a lot of extras. But Ms. Williams,
you do understand
the doubt though, right? Yeah. Yeah. You understand why
they have doubt? Even though you
may not have any. Okay. But I just feel like... If it's another man running
around in this world that is her father, why would I deprive
my child of a dad? Why? To blame it on somebody
that cannot help me
take care of this child? (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Now you know... It just don't make no sense. ...that the other man you're
messing with would not even
claim your baby. So don't stand there
and make it seem like you have somebody else
on the list to run to that would be
a great father
to your child. The two dudes that
I do know about,
take care of their kids... Because the man
that you met with and the one you messing
with now will not... ...take care of his child. Ladies, ladies, ladies. Ultimately this is
about Makayla, that's why we're here. POTTS: Yes. JUDGE LAKE: <i> But interesting...</i> (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) They act like they care
so much but it's like
I was sleeping in my car, in the front yard. CARR AND POTTS: By choice. By choice, because you was
knocking on our door at 2:00,
3:00 in the morning, only whores come home at
3:00 a.m. in the morning. You come home...
You came home at that time. I can do whatever I want. Exactly. So that means I can, too. I know, for my kids, who the father is.
I'm not here testing my baby. You do? All of 'em? CARR: Every last one of them. Anyway, back to this,
that matters. CARR: Yeah. I have no doubt
y'all wanted this.
I didn't need this. All right, ladies, all right. I think it's time
for the results. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) I do. Thank you, Jerome. Before I get to the results, I just want to explain
how the lab was able
to give us this result. Because the potential father
is deceased, with permission from
the next of kin, we were able to obtain
a blood card. That blood card was collected
from the LA county
coroner's office, we used that sample
to run the paternity test. Are we clear? POTTS AND CARR: Yes. Okay. The results were prepared
by DNA Diagnostics and they read as follows. In the case of<i>
Williams v. Potts-Carr,</i> when it comes to
2-year-old Makayla Brown, <i> it has been determined
by this court</i> that the deceased,
Mr. Marques Brown, was her father. Thank you so much.
Thank you. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Okay. You get that.
I apologize. Thank you. POTTS: You know
I love Makayla. I love Makayla 'cause
I took care of Makayla. CARR: We needed to know. We just want to know
was it her dad or not. You were doing...
We needed to know. Don't cry. I'm sorry. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) We just needed
to know, okay? JUDGE LAKE: Do you feel
relieved that now they know,
Ms. Williams? How does it feel? I mean, I already knew
in my heart but it's like... I've been through a lot,
Your Honor. I just hope stuff better,
that's all I could say. I hope we can build a better
relationship with each other, I hope y'all love my kid
like y'all love your kids, then everything
will be all right. POTTS: Oh, I love my kids,
I love my kids. I love Makayla.
You know I loved her because I always kept her
anytime you asked me to,
I kept Makayla. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) JUDGE LAKE:
I think that's wonderful. I wish you all
the very best of luck.
Court is adjourned. ALL: Thank you.
