Why I Burned the Vaush Bridge - Debate w/ Xanderhal

not everybody is born with a [ __ ] silver spoon they can start 50 million [ __ ] businesses you don't think a lot of these small businesses are literally these people livelihoods what are you talking about okay hey what's up destiny yeah hold on give me a second gotcha i assume you're just leveling out my sound um yeah let's go with that okay i need two engines per craft i'm crafting one per second don't i need two of these per second or am i doing the math wrong oh no i just need 10. i have twice as many as i have right do any so i only need half the engine units i think that's right i think that's right okay i'm sorry all right hit me up what do you got your volume is adjusted all righty cool um we we talked for the first time while you're playing factorio and we talk for possibly the final time i don't know how this is going to go while we were playing factorio it's like full circle um yeah so i took issue with your characterization of uh the reason for your department department which i don't support by the way um being because of flash i just i don't think that's very well substantiated um okay um i have a feeling that this is gonna very quickly turn into a semantic argument that we're both gonna agree but go for it okay um so i'm aware of the screenshots that came out there's the one of hyena during the uh debate you had with i'm allowed to mention bosh at least on twitch um there's the screenshot of hyenas saying how are you not getting banned for this and there was uh like retweeting or posting the video of you that went viral a few talking about the like shooting rioters that are burning [ __ ] and stuff like that and uh there were a few people in in bosch's community that were talking about like oh let's go [ __ ] let's go mass report destiny uh because they want like an excuse right um i think obviously it's pretty bad basha obviously think it's pretty bad too with somebody that's pretty close friends with bosh i talked to him a lot i've watched a lot of his content he's consistently throughout your entire lefty arc even when you guys are not even now has said that um he sees great value and you having a platform and doesn't want to see you handicapped in any way um he's constantly been attacked by his own community for defending you and being a destiny simp this happened pretty consistently i've talked to him in private about this as well um it just seems like it just seems extremely unlikely to me that for one bosch would want this to happen now other people yeah i don't think he did want it to happen i don't think i would ever say that yeah i assume you would agree with that um my mic sounds weird on destiny's stream uh does my mic sound weird i think your mic sounds fine who said it sounded weird uh sudocia in in my stream or in your stream in my chat in my chat i ignore everybody that talks about an audio issue is a [ __ ] degenerate [ __ ] troll true um so um yeah so i think we both agree that vosh probably didn't want you banned but there's a pretty i think your position and correct me if i'm wrong here um that your position is that there are significant amount of people within uh basha's community that want you banned or want you banned and or d platform and or you're having your career kneecap in some way shape or form and that he hasn't done enough to either disincentivize it or prevent it from happening do you agree with that characterization yeah okay um so i i'm not sure if you're aware of this but um ravage and even hyena have a no tolerance policy on coordination of mass reporting brigading of any kind within their uh server or their reddit it's an instaband perma no questions asked no tolerance whatsoever um uh hyena did does not like you all that much uh admittedly however vosh talked to her in private and was like this isn't okay yeah um i mean yeah but i mean that's not bosh and hyena isn't responsible like she didn't report you right yeah so like this is the difference between like um like i just don't really care about this that much um if you want to make like these like you can make this argument where it's like oh well he technically like i mean he doesn't really support this and blah blah blah like that's fine um if i have somebody that i'm friends with like i feel like i go to bat like really hard for that person so for instance when it came to vosh i talked to two different people across two different engineering teams i talked to my partner manager two or three times initially to get him unbanned and then initially to try to get him um so that he could at least appear on other people's streams and then i have i'm friends with one of the very very very high people on the moderation teams i made an effort to talk to him to get him unbanned and then there's another person that worked in partnerships that i had the discussion with regulator i like exhausted every channel i had um and then when it comes to my own community i feel like i police the [ __ ] out of my community when it comes to harassing other people as much as i'm reasonably able to do so and i think it's evidenced by the fact that every single person that i get into monster disagreements with my community tends to simp for like if you look at any major difference i have with hassan or vosh like in the beginning like usually my communities either split 50 50 or almost siding with the other people so this idea that like vosh you know didn't hate you that's just not enough for me to give a [ __ ] like i feel like i've gone out of my way like so much for somebody like this that if that's the defense like well i didn't tell them to do it well that's great but i just don't give a [ __ ] about you as a person like that's cool like maybe we exist in the same space maybe we even talk again in the future something but no [ __ ] way would i ever call somebody like that my friend like not even close okay i mean like if i was at the point where like my girlfriend and my head mod we're getting like 10 000 likes trying to cancel like a person that i considered my friend online like i don't even know what i do i'd either dump my girlfriend and fire the mod or like i would lose my mind i could never imagine doing that to somebody that i would consider my friend that's just that's just insane to me that's unbelievable that's unconscionable that i'd ever do that to another person or be involved in that manner but but that's just me i understand we're all different do you think that for somebody to be like a reasonable friend that they have to like dump their partner that doesn't like you or has done something to slight you or do you think that like talking to them being like hey this wasn't cool is enough yeah and again i might be a sociopath but yeah i would if if i had if i was like really close friends with tri-x or hassan still or whatever and i found out that my significant other was using my community to coordinate like hit squads to get this person's job destroyed or whatever i would dump that person instantly why the [ __ ] would you do that somebody that's a friend they weren't coordinating like a hit squad against you no no they weren't coordinating it they were just circulating clips they got massively popular online and then people on the suburb were talking about banning my [ __ ] like maybe it wasn't like this super cohesive blah blah blah but it was like kind of like a pretty big hit against like and it's pretty obvious like what the end result is when you're saying things like um i don't remember what her logs were exactly but like oh yeah he should be mass reported for this like again i don't care about the word like we can play like well it wasn't technically a coordination but like the intention was pretty obvious and like pretty like a brain dead person could see it like unless we try to like survive on the technicalities which isn't enough for me for a friendship so the wording and i i don't really expect you to be friends with wash or anything like that um but the wording from my memory and you can bring it up or somebody in chat can link it from my understanding with something along the lines of how is destiny not banned for this or something along those lines in the chat and the head mod i think unironically reporting the stream might be a good idea that was either the girlfriend or the head mod i well considering kanye has been subbed to you for like a decade i don't i don't know if that's a lot of people have been suddenly for a long time they got mad as [ __ ] when it turned out it wasn't a commie cuck so it doesn't really matter to me well i mean i've been supporting you for a while my sub literally just ran out recently that's great um i'm looking at logs yeah so hyena is his girlfriend right yeah unironically reporting the stream might be a good idea lameo um reporting him in this situation might actually be a good idea he's like saying people deserve to die i think it's cut off but like yeah like if my girlfriend was doing [ __ ] that's great i don't give a [ __ ] about after the fact it doesn't you understand that it doesn't matter right you understand that that doesn't make you a good person or doesn't mean you've done anything right that's some [ __ ] you do for brownie virtue points on the internet afterwards to salvage a relationship without actually doing anything like the damage is done at that point like and again i understand listen i'm autistic as [ __ ] when it comes to like these types of relationships like if there are people that i feel close to like i'll do whatever the [ __ ] i can to help somebody but the idea that like i can't i just again i understand different values if i had a girlfriend that was using my community to try to cancel somebody that i considered a friend i would dump that person so [ __ ] fast they would be blocked on every platform before they even realized the [ __ ] is happening that's just unbelievable to me but i should clarify somebody correct uh vermin correct me in chat um that that she is with the girlfriend and head mod and that kanye had nothing to do with it you fanned him for no reason from my were they the person that originally posted the club on twitter yeah they just posted the clip they just posted okay and what was the caption with a clip wasn't it something like all black people had to do was riot for destiny to show his ass or some [ __ ] come on dude i've i haven't seen i i don't know i didn't see you i did yeah i saw it i talked to conyer and he was pretty upset that he got banned because he's been a fan of you for a long time but um it just seems unreasonable to say that vosh in his community or the reason that you got uh got your partnership taken away when this clip went massively viral even in non like lefty political spaces like this was all over the internet only it was it only got all over after they originally posted the clip it was being posted by a [ __ ] ton of people after they originally popularized it on twitter i don't think they're the ones who originally popularized who posted one first they were literally the first one that did it what do you mean i i have no i have no idea who posted it first but i'm pretty sure it wasn't them it was them it was the first they posted it literally like like right immediately almost after the conversation it was over 7000 likes on twitter like their specific tweet video has over five hundred thousand views yeah like oh yeah holy [ __ ] it does it's a half million views like come on dude what do you why are you yes like what the [ __ ] oh [ __ ] uh hold on a second oh there we go can you hear me yep oh i should sound way better i was using my webcam microphone and i don't know something um okay yeah all righty uh degenerates in chat were actually right this time um hold on somebody sent me can somebody send me the link to his tweet um here right all it took was black people in the streets and people willing to burn [ __ ] down for steve to really start showing his ass i mean this is literally sharing around a tweet or a clip that had been going viral all for the last like day and a half how many years did it take you to finish high school it took me four years okay i don't know what argument you're trying to make right now but it is unbelievable to be like what are you what are you trying to say like conyer literally reposted it from somebody else so is it supposed to be better that they signal boosted it then is that supposed to make it better or correct me if i'm wrong really quickly correct me if i'm wrong have you not said in the past that as a public figure you are responsible for how people perceive you and if you say something on your platform that is uh um problematic that people are going to talk about that and it is your responsibility for how people perceive you of course but you're pivoting to a totally different activity okay it leads right back to the original point so if you say something like that do you think it is unreasonable for somebody without wanting you to get banned or contributing to you getting banned necessarily in a substantial enough way to try and uh blame somebody else uh uh that it that does not uh condone the behavior for your d platforming i don't even can you say that sentence again sure do you think that if you say something that gets a ton of traction that is very easy to perceive in an extremely negative problematic way that it is uh uh reasonable to then blame somebody who does for one does not condone and or uh uh agree with the spreading of that uh or if you're deep platforming if the person is intentionally rep first it's funny you say this person is a fan if a person is intentionally representing what i'm saying in the absolute worst light possible and their goal in either signal boosting or posting a tweet is to get me cancelled like so for one yes conyer is definitely a fan i've friends with conyer and for two he reposted the uh clip after he'd already seen it he posted it 15 minutes later after the squirrel person who also [ __ ] hates me posted and they posted a caption along with it making it sound like i'm this racist douchebag like i don't i don't know what the [ __ ] kind of fans you guys have but holy [ __ ] like with fans like this who needs hate watchers um i mean i guess i can speak for con i mean i can speak for conyard saying that he does not want you getting de-platformed and definitely bosh doesn't okay maybe he's just specially challenged then i don't know what to say like i don't know what you expect like hey this person is being racist here's a 16-second clip of them talking about like protesters from an hour-long conversation like i don't know what you expect to happen like damn dude how [ __ ] stupid must you be i guess i'm glad this guy's not a fan anymore at least holy [ __ ] i can i can say from experience i get clipped out of context a lot lefties on on twitter and on the internet are some of the dumbest people you'll ever find but this isn't just stupid this is malicious do you understand that it's not just i think it's i do not think it's malicious okay we just we have totally different standards of either human intelligence or friendship or i don't know how to i don't know if i'm communicating with another human being that's having a real conversation with me or if you're here on behalf of somebody because like what you're saying is just unreal like i i don't i don't even know i don't even know how to address like the words you're saying like like i don't think this was malicious i think they just had a problem with why didn't they dm why didn't they post a link to the entire conversation like why didn't they make a more accurate call out of like oh destiny doesn't support writing i think there's actually a valor why would they post a tweet that just makes me look racist and there's a 16 second clip out of an hour-long conversation like nothing you're saying make sense i want to clarify something really quick uh vermin keeps messaging me saying not to not to talk about what she believes because i'm like putting words in her mouth and stuff like that so i want to clarify that like uh they i'm not able to perfectly uh uh represent what they believe but they from my understanding that i know for a fact they don't want you like unpartnered or anything um but yeah we'll end with their intentions which one is vermin is that hyena or is this the con that's hyena that's that's hyena wait they don't want me partnered but they think i should get reported they want you no they want you partnered what are they wait what do they think happens when you report somebody i they didn't from what i've all right i'm gonna ask uh hyena right now whether or not she wanted to be reported wait she typed it in chat this is why i don't want to talk to lefties anymore i'm literally pulling my hair out this is unr this whole conversation is unreal like it sounds like you have like a conclusion in mind and you're like desperately clawing your way there through any like combination of english words possible but like everything you're saying is so unbelievable like i can't think of a different word besides unbelievable for this i mean i've been i've been like a fan of you for a long time this doesn't mean anything when you say that a lot of people have fans of me for a lot of different reasons a lot of libertarian fans at one point a lot of kami and tanki fans at one point i don't know why you were ever a fan of me at some point if it's because i served some ideas fan of you okay that's great yeah i still i and i mean i i feel like your reaction to your deep partnering towards bosch because i'm friends with bosh and and i know that he respects you a lot um and i think you kind of went nuclear on it and that's what we're really like boils down to yeah i know but like based on everything you've said so far it seems like my position is incredibly reasonable and you're giving me these absurd arguments like well they just said to report you they didn't want you to get deported i don't i don't think going nuclear and dumping somebody that you're uh uh dumping somebody that you're in a relationship with because they did something or uh could be perceived or plan to do something to uh uh your friend is like reasonable okay well then that's just like a different in values i guess that we have i don't know what to say vermin sudden chat of course i didn't want him to partner duty i didn't even know it was an option xander hall stop saying something uh about anything then what do they think happens when you report somebody they just wanted me to get permanently banned oscar what was your intention vermin i think destiny should have just caught a temp man not been demonetized and i've been what this person is [ __ ] [ __ ] i don't have an i wish i had other better words for it but i don't know what else to say i don't care about anything this person thinks or feels or says like um i just i don't know what else to say it's like shooting somebody in the chest like [ __ ] dude i thought i'd send her to the emergency room i didn't know they would actually die like what like you're literally reposting things online making it sound like i'm the worst racist person ever that and then like spreading these ideas and rumors that i want to like murder protesters i'm advocating for violence like oh well i thought he would just get like a 24-hour ban like i don't know how to communicate with somebody i don't i don't actually believe that's what they think i think they're being dishonest because now they regret it for whatever reason and since they have regret now they're changing what they originally intended that's what i'm pretty sure is happening right now but of course they'll never admit that but i mean if they're not admitting that or if that's not what actually happened they're just so stupid that they're beyond redemption anyway like do you do you think this leaves bosch responsible for what happened um different people have way different ideas about what responsibility means right pewdiepie doesn't think he's responsible for hosting alt-right channels um some like people have like maybe vox doesn't think that like it's his job to babysit like his [ __ ] girlfriend and mod or whatever or whatever [ __ ] if that's the case and that's fine for him i have different standards than that from my personal relationships and my friendships that's not enough for me i would never treat another person like that i think i go to bat against my community incredibly aggressively against certain types of people um and if other people aren't willing to extend me the same courtesy especially when i feel like i've gone pretty far out of my way behind the scenes to help them and especially when i think i had like a decent part and like their like literal creation as a content creator um like i i don't know that bothers me a little bit like if if you're if you're like oh well i don't know i couldn't do anything okay i mean i guess yeah maybe you couldn't but like damn why would i want to be friends with somebody like i can find different people in my life that would treat me better than that oh hell my girlfriend just got me mcdonald's nice um han i i okay so my opinion so for one uh the way that you framed i kind of disagree with the the framing as to like vosh did nothing to uh uh to encourage or discourage his audience or prevent them from doing this kind of stuff and um both me and vasha's opinion on when it comes to controlling your audience has been the same thing that uh honestly you convinced me of because i was a little [ __ ] who believed that you can't creators can't control their audience back in the day um you do have a responsibility to your audience you have a responsibility as a public figure to the platform that you hold you can influence your audience to a pretty significant degree based on what you say and do and what you advocate for um and vosh went pretty hard against people who were trying to uh uh coordinate would you say pretty hard and i don't even know if he posted in his own subreddit i think he just made that one reply in my sub to like no there there's a zero tolerance instaband no negotiations uh in both his reddit his discord and his ch in his chat for anybody that uh uh wait that was already there before this right yeah and he clarified i'm not i'm not going to allow anybody to go and try to get destiny banned or like mass report after the video had half a million views and i okay i mean thanks wow well do you think that like that leaves bosch responsible in terms of responsible i mean probably not really it's why there's not sort of his mod and his friend i would just expect people that are like um that are like friends of me to be a little bit more proactive um i mean it's not his responsibility but again like if molina were to start doing crazy [ __ ] um that was like super horrible against people that i'm friends with i don't know if it would be my responsibility for her but like damn i sure wouldn't keep her as company and i and i wouldn't i don't think if i thought so positively of somebody i don't think my personal company would think that that seems like really weird to me that i'd be like really close to somebody how like a really high ping to someone and everybody around me would [ __ ] hate that person i just i don't know how but i mean i don't have a lot of friends i've run a lot of bridges over [ __ ] like this so i don't know maybe it's just the difference i don't know i i i generally like i know we probably have a pretty big disagreement on this but i generally try to um like reason things out with people and not have uh uh like a shifting of conflict and like friendship ending kind of [ __ ] go down i really don't uh that's not like my my goal with things i know you're a little bit different on that hold on it's that's not my goal okay or not nothing no no no no no no no no no i'm not saying that like i burn bridges for no reason okay i think that when i'm friends with somebody i go really far out of my way to do things for them or help them if i can i think i go incredibly far out of my way to do things for that i think like i'll jerk myself off like i think to a large part josh kind of owes his entire career to what i've done i purged and fought so many people in my community where i continued to ban threads about the sexual allegations against him i removed i de-listed and deleted the video off my youtube about it out of respect for him like like there are so many things that i did going out of my way in terms of fighting my community and banning people that said no things about him and then his community spreads a half million view clips saying that i'm a racist trying to get me the partner like that's there's so not even close to two-way respect there that i just don't give a [ __ ] like so it wasn't it wasn't his community that did that it was a very small amount of people within his community of which he when you say small amount of people you're talking about his roommate and his girlfriend dog these aren't just random and i know you have have you i know you said you didn't watch uh his response to the thing did you no in your in your video about it in his video he said he talked to them both afterwards it doesn't matter the measure of doing things afterwards again does that leave him responsible no i said it's not his responsibilities but you can be more proactive rather than being responsible like so in so then i would ask you what would you prefer that he did probably had probably make it so through conversation or whatever like all the people close to him didn't have such an unbelievably abhorrent opinion about me would probably be like a good place to start i mean so i i've gone a pretty i've gone pretty hard and and so is as bashing like defending you to a certain degree even when you do stuff that most lefties get really pissed off about and you can't control the opinions of everybody in your lives no but i can choose who i'm friends with and i think my girlfriend and my roommate are pretty easy places to start damn if you can't figure out if you have no influence over the people you're dating or living with holy [ __ ] like i thought the whole point of what we do is is influencing that's why we're called influencers right do i get paid sponsors and [ __ ] like i i don't know if you can influence the opinion that somebody has on on you i can understand try implementing their passions in regards to regards to their opinion okay take a deep breath and just think about the words that you're saying okay because what you're saying is unbelievable okay you don't think you can influence the opinions that the closest people in your life have about other friends you have you really mean that influence them but you cannot completely uh change them in the sense that if you don't make a good enough argument then you're probably not going to do a good job changing their minds you can influence their actions but you don't you don't think that opinion but you can't necessarily like consistently 100 of the time change their someone's opinion on you i mean they're in the they're their own individual people who are going to have their own takes on you but you can probably have a heavy influence over their opinions on their friend no like absolutely so so if those people [ __ ] hate you so much that they would do things to try to get your stream or whatever destroyed band unpartnered or whatever that seems a little bit strange there seems to be an incongruency there between their personal thoughts about you and what they publicly claim about you right like i i again i'm just trying to think of like a similar situation i can't imagine if like molina was on her stream saying like oh yeah mr mutin that is a [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] like we should [ __ ] report a stream for blah blah blah blah like yeah like if molina said what the [ __ ] is wrong with you and if somebody and if mr moon was like dude like uh can't you talk to your girlfriend like i can't control anything that she thinks about anything well of course i can like what the [ __ ] she's my fiance i date her of course i talk to her more than anybody else does and if mr boone is a friend then i imagine i should have some sway her opinion like my opinion should hold some weight to her and if i've got a very high opinion of someone and she's very low opinion we should be able to resolve that somehow it seems strange that we wouldn't be able to otherwise so in your video you said that that bosh was like a spineless uh i don't know like something how spineless do you have to be to not like yourself so hard your community girlfriend roommate yes yeah i mean he talked to them after the fact which i understand doesn't change anything materially but in regards to who is at who's to blame in the situation it doesn't really seem fair to to pin that on i'm not blaming him the blame would be the blame would be on on me for saying that on the people that reported it i'm not blaming you i don't speak to him ever again yes because i don't want to be friends with him i'm blaming him for being a shitty friend not for getting me unpartnered it wasn't him that did it but but obviously like he has no backbone in terms of which and most people don't you know most people choose nice and easy friends and i understand autistic is [ __ ] that's fine or whatever okay but like yeah i like i just don't care to have friends that way and i have very few friends maybe for that reason but like yeah like if i have a like close friend i wanted to be somebody that would like stick up for me um but i mean i would do the same thing like for anybody that's just how i am and i understand that people are different and maybe that standard is unreasonable if i took my girlfriend to like dinner and my parents started [ __ ] talking her i would never talk to my family again i would tell them to [ __ ] off and end themselves in a video game but that's just the kind of person maybe other people aren't comfortable making the same things but like if i'm going to do that for another person which i have put myself out there pretty far for bosh and they're not going to do the same for me then it doesn't make sense for me to continue that relationship like a super one-sided i have i kind of have a similar take but it's to a different degree right like i'm completely fine burning a bridge with somebody even my own family if they if they did some [ __ ] that was just so uh uh unforgivable then i would completely agree with that but it seems like in this case like you went nuclear you know i didn't go nuclear i just don't want to be friends with them anymore or have anything to do with them that's not nuclear i can make that choice like that i don't think that's surprising like you're roommating your girlfriend like almost like destroyed my entire career like that's okay if i don't want to be friends with you anymore like i think i think that's totally reasonable i don't think it's that nuclear do you think you were friends with bosh um i thought i was a little bit like he was like we argued a lot but i would say like oh you're the only person that i think is reasonable on the left like i think i like made a considerable effort even though it like it didn't work that well like to try to like get him unbanned or at least make him appear on other people's streams like i exhausted as many behind the scenes resources as possible um like in the beginning like i was like i didn't want um i know that my developers you can talk to um you can talk to cake or whatever um in the beginning um and seeing even about like should we close the source of the website because people like wash are copping it i was like no i mean like that's what the point of it all is for like he copied my whole look to my whole [ __ ] website everything like i still had him on debates like i turned my stream off to talk to him on youtube like i think i do like a decent amount in terms of going out of my way to be nice or whatever and when his girlfriend and roommate are trying to [ __ ] axe my stream i think it's okay for me like okay this is super one-sided like i'm pissing out like i don't need a spineless guy that only keeps you around because he you know what likes watching my videos and i get a views on youtube i mean like so so i i can say that like just from seeing what vasha said on stream he was definitely pretty grateful for you trying to help him with getting unbanned but he also said many times that he felt like uh he felt like you were pretty unfair with him a lot of the time i mean yeah obviously it's like pretty heated disagreements in our arguments i think the first one i had with him was really bad but i think after that they were okay but then like afterwards like i mean there are definitely things that he says that have made me question like his like his arguments but i mean i don't think i i don't think i've ever done like an aggressive action towards him like the worst things that i've done the meanest things i've done in my quote-unquote frenchman is i said like i think he's arguing a bad faith about this topic i mean maybe that's the same as trying to get somebody's stream like banned but i mean like i i don't think i i think we already traded over this but i don't think losh wanted you banned and i'm not from what no not in fact and from what vermin is saying in chat she didn't want you banned or deep laughing yeah but she's a [ __ ] [ __ ] i don't care what she says okay i don't know what you other outcomes you expect from reporting somebody's stream i don't know what the [ __ ] you would think is happening you must acknowledge that that what you're saying is insane right like what do you think in terms of like when you report somebody's stream like what do you think is going to happen wait can you walk me through that actually i just want to hear it so for one i mean obviously the the go-to one would probably be getting banned or departed or whatever um or even possibly getting like permit right um and i think a lot of people particularly lefties and i don't agree with this by the way um i don't think this is the way to go about it at all whatsoever just to clarify um a lot of people felt like your messaging there was like really really bad um like border borderline like siding with fascist level bad and thought that if if you had pushback from twitch that you would consider oh maybe this is probably bad messaging sure so then we agree then that getting banned or permabanned or departed was like a possibility so then i don't know what we disagree on um probably but like you don't think that like if they had no one report did she didn't report your stuff they like her community like their their community is like it's a bannable offense to courtney like but she's literally saying like somebody should report him like do you understand how hilarious this distinction you're trying to draw is and how utterly meaningless it is do you really yeah it is a meaningless distinction if we're talking about broadly like the effect yes she said that people should report this which is obviously bad but if we're talking about like did she did she um did she report it or not then then no okay i don't think that distinction is relevant i don't think you think that distinction is relevant you're just really desperate to like salvage this discussion i i can't believe you really think this well my my true goal at the end of the day is ideally i would like you and and and and vosh to at least be amicable and i know that you probably don't want that so it's not really like like a a reasonable or realistic goal so from my perspective is probably one of the the largest career that i've had the largest hand in initially like bolstering um to put it very lightly and his community has probably done more damage to me than any other singular community on the internet so no you think his community has done more damage to you i can't think of anybody else that's caused me as much harm as his community or it's the dumb [ __ ] lefties on twitter that they signal boosted no the dumb [ __ ] lefties on twitter [ __ ] hate fosh and they hate me like trump dude i i can i can say uh uh quite strongly every time you've you've debated those like like you go on those panel shows where some dumb [ __ ] lefties are like calling you transphobic or whatever and then you go on there and they and they all [ __ ] reel back and everything and backpedal everything i've dealt with those same exact people those are the people that are responsible for getting you banned i promise you it's not bosh's community the tweet that they signal boosted that i'm looking at right now the original tweet had 56 likes 56 likes and 10 retweets this is the tweet that was going viral for days like come on dude there were a [ __ ] ton of people who posted it that was where the that was like one of the original posts of it okay um how are you doing tonight destiny do you want hold on let's let's cool down listen i i like you a lot let's let's uh let's let's chill out for a second sure thing what's up how are you doing tonight are you enjoying factoria yeah i love factorio do you recommend it um if you like these types of games of course the best like builder type game or whatever and all of [ __ ] the internet yeah really yep nice i i remember the first time we spoke um was uh back in like the beginning of uh uh because you played up you've played a decent part in in in sprouting my youtube streaming whatever as well like uh why nervosa made my website from like the the source code as well and and i originally went on your stream to talk with you and like a bunch of detectives in your community searched me out and found my channel and then all my videos had uh destiny got destroyed in this debate my comments for about six months cool so god i helped so many of you guys get so big i love the whole sexy socialism communism [ __ ] on the internet makes me feel really good about my presence online i i wanna i wanna ask you right now what is your what is your main like because i i've i've watched the lefty art go down okay what is your main contention with like online lefties most of them are dumber than a [ __ ] barrel of rocks is my biggest problem they don't understand any of the issues they talk about i think i understand and can advocate for socialism better than any of them can their critiques of capitalism are void and hollow they don't even understand the things that they talk about um and ultimately they're harmful to the things that i've tried to spread for so long because they all look like incoherent babbling [ __ ] idiots that i have to come out and try to explain away when i have to talk to jordan peters jordan peterson type saying like well i don't think the left is that crazy and like even when i talk to people in real life it's insane like i have trans friends in real life that tell me they won't [ __ ] touch online trans communities with a [ __ ] stick because of insanely [ __ ] toxic they are and i've got like far left friends in real life that have like that will completely disavow the insane actions online so it's annoying because they're dumb and they hurt my own cause and they [ __ ] attack me [ __ ] crazily and i guess they have more capital power behind them too so their attacks are more effective than people on the right as well so that i think those three major reasons are the reason why i [ __ ] can't stand them so i i get a lot of the same [ __ ] and i think the difference between you and me in this respect is how we respond to it so for me whenever i see like a lefties online that are being really really dumb uh uh and i see that a lot it's common not gonna deny that most lefties on the internet have no idea what they're talking about um i'll say that a lot of issues i don't know what i'm talking about but i try not to claim that i'm a figure of authority authority on that if i don't know what i'm talking about right um so wouldn't it be more effective to [ __ ] on those particular lefties instead of just saying broadly all lefties on the internet's pieces of [ __ ] when generally speaking on most like practical uh uh frontline issues you're probably going to agree like like pragmatically i went that road but it doesn't matter if i agree on most things these people still want to like cancel the [ __ ] out of me or call me like a right winger or a fascist at this point i would safely if i had the power to i would like tell every single person that anybody that is a rose in their name on twitter for instance is never going to say anything of value both personally and politically these people should be excised from society thrown into a [ __ ] like gulag somewhere something will live out their fantasies of their perfect communist world or some [ __ ] and intellectually they'll never say anything of value either no it doesn't seem to be the case like most of these youtube channels are garbage most of the subreddits are [ __ ] garbage um all of the twitter threads and conversations are [ __ ] garbage and they make my job harder because every time i have to talk to a conservative i've got to try to explain away the insane and inane [ __ ] that goes on in these communities well i get the same thing but i don't and i don't say it's all lefties it's it's like a [ __ ] ton of them if we're being honest absolutely i've seen it i've dealt with it i like no [ __ ] up about me spreading around you my mom told me this growing up okay and i believe it 100 okay you are who you hang around and your community is a reflection of what of not only what you believe not just what you believe but what you will tolerate okay i have suffered many a great financial harm and many a great mental harm excising the [ __ ] out of my community of people that i don't agree with and if other people can't be held to those standards if you're gonna sit there and cater to an audience full of insane [ __ ] people people on [ __ ] vasha's subreddit like writing [ __ ] and getting upvoted that i like abandoned my kid to go [ __ ] 18 year olds or seven years or whatever the [ __ ] crazy [ __ ] they say like if that's the type of audience you keep that says more about you than what you say about yourself so no i reject that sir but then don't sit here and tell me that like not all lefties blah blah blah when the majority of their communities act like this way like yeah and those if those those people with those communities [ __ ] them for like i've seen you vash doesn't have that community he encourages his his community to support you all the time um so like i've i've dealt with a lot of the same people that you have and you hate that are on the left like everybody from [ __ ] bad at banata with peter coffin uh uh izzy bear i know you watched my date with izzy barry so this post on vasha's subreddit i'm not even sure if this is deleted destiny wants the riots to stop and hopes white nationalists will start shooting people in the streets top level comment this is concerning he's painting all protesters with a wide brush lumping rioters in with people fighting for judicial reform not true this is irresponsible rhetoric and certainly some conservative talking points not true i don't know if it's conservative to be against writing i'm not sure why does it become so reactionary but it's sad and scary to see how long until someone sees this video goes on a shooting spree against blm go look at his sub all of his fans are calling the shooter innocent to treat him like a hero um i don't know how destiny is 100 cancelled just based on how openly racist of a dip [ __ ] he is linking the scroll to it's like how like you think this is the sub where these people don't [ __ ] hate me of course there are people in this community that hate you no the majority of this community [ __ ] the majority of ash's community doesn't hate you so this third level upvoted comment so it stands to reason destiny would have been for murdering all the protesters and writers during the civil rights movement top level reply absolutely yes you're delusional hold on i i know that nothing i say because like these types of cognitive dissonances can't be resolved externally you have to do this yourself but i'm telling you you have a massive cognitive dissonance in terms of the reality that you think you're seeing and the reality that actually exists like i don't know what to tell you like and it's strange because i spend so much time in these different subreddits to try to get an idea of like what do people think about me this this weird and vosh is like deluded here too he's like no my fans generally like you that is absolutely not true what the how the [ __ ] can you think that like what is your evidence of that so des do you not remember when you and and vosh debated the [ __ ] the two nazis you're gonna go to the highlight of the highlight of the career juan for weeks was in favor of you after that the you're going to have been a clip come out of you that was granted dishonestly you're wrong obviously just a week after that debate very badly just a week after that debate people were posting hate threads about me like yes in the very small moment where me and vosh were debating together his community generally had a positive view of me but even during that debate i had his chat open and there were still people calling me a neil lib and [ __ ] like so yeah when i'm literally debating nazis literal nazis alongside vosh they have a temporarily high opinion of me for a week tops i can't believe that you're sitting here trying to tell me that this community is a favorable opinion of me it's unbelievable that you think that sorry someone sent me something chat no so if you have a so even if vosh pretty consistently speaks positively of you from his community and encourages people to uh support you and i do the same thing even to this day even though i'm kind of disappointed with the current [ __ ] going on with with you and bosch because i you know look up to both of you um i i i think that for the most part his community was pretty in favor of you but when you have a clip come out that is it's dishonestly uh clipped and paints you in as bad of a light as that it's just that they signal boosted because it was originally dishonestly clipped but they signaled they what if they're so much why wouldn't they go out and maybe find out what the context was why wouldn't they go and like maybe clip the extra 30 seconds around it like that's what that's what i did i went and i found the context and i defended you a little bit and was like okay he does this isn't about you okay this is about community expectation for most people this this isn't about you this is about vascus community you're just one i understand and i and i said it and i just said that it's not reasonable for most people to see a clip like that on twitter and they go out of their way we're not talking about most people we're talking about josh's roommate and vasha's girlfriend we're not talking about most people we're talking about vosh's roommate and girlfriend so we go back to the to the should he like disown them because no it's not about his own it's about like why do the people in his community think about me if his own girlfriend and roommate are gonna be that unbelievably uncharitable to me but you think his community likes me like what the [ __ ] how do you explain the incongruence there his his community liked you for a while up until that clip and a lot of the arguments you have somebody anybody want to go find the subreddit post that we're like a week after what you're saying is just not true i don't know how much you want and if you watch vajra spend any time in his community like i've looked at some of his chats and watches live streams as much but i definitely follow his subreddit the fact this idea that they liked me after the debate is just hilariously [ __ ] not true what the [ __ ] most people and is maybe i'm wrong because this is based off of my anecdote there's no way to uh uh quantify with like data to pick up how much people how many people in bosch's community like uh like you but generally speaking when i spend time in this community most people have a positive view on you they're like yeah he's been kind of like cringy lately with the lefty arc but generally they see you as like a overall positive benefit for the online political space they have a very interesting way of showing that in the way that they discuss me also i like the idea that as soon as we get into like a big disagreement they instantly come out with all of the alt-right hits the destinies just to [ __ ] uh abandons his son blah blah blah blah very interesting how quickly they turn when they have such a positive opinion of me just a day before that clip got released day before yeah yeah you said they liked me up until the until that conversation i guess or ever till the clip or whatever oh so did from correct me if i'm wrong but that clip came out the day after you debated vosh about the kenosha shooting right maybe i okay i'm pretty from what i heard it was like the day after so at that point yeah the community would be at least a part of the community would definitely be against you after that i i have i have a question do you think that generally that like uh uh there are i just i just real quick just i just uh our tv is typing chat i just think it's so [ __ ] hilarious that vosh has [ __ ] clips out here being like yeah well you know in these cases i think child porn is acceptable and like vosh fans are like oh hold on like well he didn't actually mean that blah blah blah like we go deeper he's talking about like if you exploit any children under capitalism like you might as well exploit him like a child he's not saying it's good he's pointing out how bad capitalism he's hyperbolic example or when it comes to like glassing israel like well he doesn't actually mean he wants israel to be nuked when it comes to well he lived in beverly hills he lived in the poor parts okay there's this unimag his whole fan base is constantly like going to great lengths to explain and explore the context of the nuance around things that vosh says okay which is fine i would expect them to do that but then when a 16 second clip is released of me and then they all go [ __ ] apeshit they game this alt-right white nationalist racist that wants every single black and blm protester killed and assassinated in the streets like very clearly there is an a bias against me there to pretend that they all liked me and they were just they were hoodwinked by the 16 second clip when they spend most of their lives fighting in favor of vosh i don't i'm not buying it dude tons okay so dishonest clipping online is rampant in every single community and it's not necessarily reasonable to expect everybody to go out of their way to find the context of that this is a [ __ ] no but they do for fresh don't they do they well because they are a fan of that person there you go why don't why don't they do it for me because they're not fans of me because most of them don't like me they may not be fans of you but they can respect that you contribute a positive outcome to the internet you said earlier that they were friendly or they had favorable views of me that's clearly not many many people and a fairly significant amount of people in bosch's community definitely are are also fans of you and watch your content as well but i'm talking about people who are like aware of you and they're like yeah destiny's all right i guess or uh destiny's okay he's been kind of being cringy they have a very funny way of showing it anytime anything is posted about me ever in that subreddit and it's overwhelmingly negative so um there's a this is a um it's a type of bias i don't remember the exact name for it i think you talked about it before if somebody has a strong feeling about someone they're more likely to report it or talk about it than if they're just like cool with it or they're fine with it right so this is the same issue with like movie reviews you've talked about this pretty sure if someone thought a movie was pretty good their restaurant was really good you're less likely to make a and we have an upvote and a down vote system on reddit okay i can look and see what the prevailing opinion of a community is okay this excuse maybe to a dumber person would work but like it's pretty easy to tell what subreddits in general where they kind of like fall on ideologically or what their opinions are of things when comments are posted with hundreds and hundreds of upvotes calling me an alt-right fascist or similar [ __ ] like this idea like well not all of them hate you just the vocal minority no these are the things that are getting massively upvoted these are probably the prevailing opinions of his community i think it's pretty safe and easy to say that after that clip came out yeah i would definitely agree with that but like i said before if you're going to see if you're going off of posts on on on like uh reddit that are getting upvotes and stuff like that the people who dislike you and and hate you or or have like very strong feelings against you those are the people that are going to have a much higher likelihood of making posts about you and uploading posts that are that are [ __ ] talking you people that are either cool with you or don't so crazy that that just it's crazy how that doesn't happen in my community i wonder why maybe you're full of [ __ ] like that's just not true why would you say because it's pretty clear that there is an there is an ideological majority of people that don't like me on in his fan base it's just it's pretty obvious it's painfully obvious like they think the upvotes in the post like demonstrate that like i don't think up until that clip came out most people in flash's community disliked you okay you're just but what what is your evidence of that because my evidence is several posts that they've made all with high level comments like [ __ ] on me and then the posts themselves being highly upvoted [ __ ] on me well i'm curious what evidence do you have how do we resolve this people anecdotal evidence of after you and vosh did your uh uh your like for weeks after you and bosh did your debate against those two nazis of people posting memes of you like tag teaming like there was one that had like thousands of upvotes that was you and bosh at the same time when you went ah like like you were both laughing there were some memes about the duo debate for a few days afterwards and then i'm pretty sure that like one week later okay people were back to [ __ ] on me like i have some like i don't know if you realize this but i like regardless of how i feel i still have a lot of fans in my community that are wash fans i mean you can go talk to some of them and every single one of them in my chat is constantly saying destiny i'm a huge fan of vosh his chat [ __ ] hates you destiny i'm a huge fan of us xander is gaslighting the at me his community [ __ ] hates you literally every single person in my chat there's a fan of josh is saying this like you're just you're lying well you're i don't know if you're lying to me or yourself i can't really determine that and it's really frustrating to try to figure it out i try i try not to lie to either i think that you're a pretty reasonable person okay then um how do you explain this like well obviously people in my people in my chat are going to be pissed off at you but i tell obviously i've said don't no i'm just looking at my chat my chat for people that are fans of wash and and me like people keep saying that like like vaush's community [ __ ] hates and they've said this the whole time too because like sometimes i ask more to talk or whatever like oh like d was watching like fans because there's still a ton of crowds between me and bosh and me and hassan well it's i say crossover but that's not true it's really only one way because vosh's fans typically [ __ ] hate me but like i have a lot of fans of mine that like me and vosh but like this idea that they they were so favorable to me like nobody in my chat like supports that idea i don't even know if bosh's community would support that if i went to vgg i'm not even sure if that was true okay so i i can actually acknowledge that one there because i noticed this back when you guys had like your original debate um like the the the original one you know the really yelly one um i i noticed that like a lot of people in chat were saying why is destiny acting like this he's acting like really upset and it was kind of a strange debate and uh and i remember people in in in dgg chat because i had both chats open whenever i was re-watching the uh the plot of it cause i get to watch it live like a lot of people in your chat were saying oh they [ __ ] hate you they're saying you should die but most people in in bosch's chat at least in that instance we're like destiny is acting really really upset what i'm sorry what was the um how long ago was a duo debate was it over like half a year ago no it was not that long ago it was like a couple months ago oh [ __ ] i don't want to go digging through the [ __ ] threads um i can find it i mean it would have been hold on i'm not as fast as hyper as you oh it was two months ago okay because people are linking me lots of threads but they were before that but i'm linking yeah i mean we can i mean you can go you can literally go to the video itself on vosh's channel has 310 000 uh uh views 12k likes and the videos down below are like vash and destiny used unfair debating tactics like facts and studies you're going to the one time that we were together debating against two nazis do you understand how weak this is that this is the only time that you can point his community having a favorable opinion the reason why i point to this is because this is a this is one of the few interactions that you guys have had that hasn't been literally uh antagonistic as [ __ ] generally when you guys talk except for that one time you went on modern day to bait in person it's always you guys against each other of course the people in chat are going to be [ __ ] talking you when you guys are debating of course that's going to be the case but if you guys were just like chatting or or even if you guys are working together of course the most of the people in in the middle or but my community doesn't lash out that way like they do against like like like vasha's does against me it's not even remotely the same people in my like community aren't constantly making threads about how horribly cuckish communist socialist pro-child porn or whatever i i'm i've seen quite a few people like it like from your community like [ __ ] talking lefties and some like fairly big jumps and most of the time i'm like cool with it because a lot of lefties online are [ __ ] dumbasses but like sometimes it's it's basically equatable to what fascist community does there's a thing that online communities do and creators do have a responsibility to tell their audience not to do that kind of [ __ ] if they aren't okay with doing that [ __ ] and that's what bosh did um i like i [ __ ] i don't know what to say so can can we agree that like as a public figure um you do have a responsibility to your audience and i've learned a lot of this from you uh to your audience to influence their behavior and if they're doing things you disagree with you can ban people you can uh by the way somebody in chat mentioned this i was debating lollycon pedophiles earlier the title of my stream's not a reference to you um uh uh you have a you have a responsibility to your community or to as a public platform or as a public figure to influence the behavior of your fans but um that goes to an extent beyond like banning them and deleting threads there's not really much else you can do you can't necessarily beyond saying hey i think destiny is a good advocate and he is about as wash has said he is of objective value to the material benefit the problem is that you keep trying to say these are random people but they weren't random people this is literally his roommate and his girlfriend we're not talking about it controlling your community we're talking about influencing the p the opinions of the people closest to you like so his so so his roommate all he did was like post the uh uh the clip i like i don't think he intended for you to get to get like d partner okay then was it was it irresponsible was it irresponsible to post the dishonestly uh clip thing yeah definitely but i didn't just post the clip he post the clip with a highly inflammatory caption and also his girlfriend was saying that i should be reported for this i don't know how the we're looping but like this is just like come on somebody sent me a screenshot i want to see these varnish nuance brew quote tweeted my destiny tweet pepe laughs flash no one's pro quo tweeted my destiny tweet pepe wait uh okay this is a bunch of [ __ ] spam um i guess we can go over the uh uh the final thing involving the drama that i want to cover do you actually think that people should back door of ash's website do i think they should no i'm just not going to moderate [ __ ] like that anymore i don't give a [ __ ] oh because there was like a screenshot that came out of you like saying i don't know if there are any back doors that are open to his website anymore and then somebody said uh i'm gonna go try and you said go do it bro or go get em buddy or whatever oh when i said go get him i meant like he should report it to the website administrator there are holes or whatever in the [ __ ] you should file a complaint on the github or whatever um i don't think that's what it looks like but i i honestly though i will assume that you're being honest and say that's that's what you yeah of course these are all open source projects anybody could contribute find uh bugs and [ __ ] yeah yeah my um my website is is based off of your okay listen people in chat are uh are lay rousing but i'm going to assume that you're that you're being honest there um because you know uh the website is closed source no it's not somebody told me it's closed source i'm so curious if they feel so bad about all of this and this is all true why is the tweet still up uh conyer i mean the tweet went pretty viral i don't think it really changes anything if you if you want them to take it down they would probably take it down if it's dishonestly that this is the difference i don't want to have to ask that's the difference all right maybe this is just where the difference in values is i guess but again i keep saying that like i'm like objector whatever like i understand that everybody has different ways that they evaluate their [ __ ] or whatever that's fine but um yeah like i'm good miss me with that [ __ ] fam like you're all right well i generally my my opinion of you is has been positive even throughout most of the lefty arc because a lot of the people that you've gone after uh fairly consistently well you have sort of painted a broad brush on most lefties having people that i've lost a lot of respect for because i sort of realized through watching you talk to them that they have no idea what they're talking about or what they're doing my problem here is that you you seem to and i don't want to back off of this that you seem to have gone nuclear with like yeah so people keep saying that that's not it's not nuclear okay for all the reasons that you can go and watch after you're done with this you want to review the vod okay it's not a matter of me painting with a broad brush it is unequivocally the idea that almost every single lefty i've talked to has just been a full-on [ __ ] idiot every single person that i've talked to about capitalism or socialism or markets or rent control or healthcare has been that identifies as a communist or a socialist or has a dumb [ __ ] red rose on their name and twitter is is unbelievably [ __ ] stupid not only that they're probably lonely in self [ __ ] with no friends in real life because you can tell how politically disconnected they are from the people they claim to represent in real life as well so yeah i mean like you can call that a broad statement and and you know it's just like when i debated the alt-writers and conservatives you know how many debates did i have what was like oh we're not all dumb destiny let me come on and tell you differently and those were the worst people those were the dumbest people i talked to how many different lefties how many academic lefties ben burgess coming on and saying we can solve climate change we just need a global socialist revolution or or or michael albert coming on that's [ __ ] authored books on alternative economic systems saying well i don't really know how the stock market works lol these are the best of the best that you have to offer like and and these people come on and they continually make themselves look like [ __ ] idiots what am i supposed to think like where are all of these ultra intelligent lefties with all these ultra valid like policy suggestions and critiques was it um weren't you supposed to i think you were supposed to talk to uh was it chomsky or michael brooks that you didn't end up talking i talked to brooks one time and it was an embarrassingly stupid [ __ ] conversation um and then i don't know i don't know if i'll ever get the chance to talk to chomsky chomsky actually sounds like an intelligent guy and chomsky actually sounds like he would agree with me on most things which is one of the reasons why lefties tried to cancel the [ __ ] out of him when he came out and he said we should unequivocally vote for biden over trump do you remember all the massive twitter friends saying that chomsky was a cuck that he's just another old white stupid male that doesn't know anything that he's blah blah blah blah like well i completely agree i completely agree with you that's great a lot of people but we're gonna do that but that's the thing though because i completely agree that a [ __ ] ton of lefties online particularly online are very very stupid and that's why i have i'm not friends with a lot of online lefty figures okay sure but you keep saying i'm painting with it you keep saying painting with a broad brush where are all these so whenever i ship talk like uh the dumb [ __ ] lefties i say these terminally online [ __ ] dumbasses on the left and i and i use the same terminology even terminally online dumb [ __ ] lefties that's generally what what i call them and i completely agree these people that have no idea what they're talking about but that's why i had a lot of obviously you know riley grace is in chat you talked to her recently she's very smart um but that's why i had a lot of that's why i have a lot of respect for both you and vosh and i i was really disappointed and i saw that the the bridge between you two was burned because washes and i think you would agree probably one of the most confident um rhetorically and argumentatively but his community hates me with a fiery [ __ ] passion and he doesn't do that much to really do anything about it so why the [ __ ] would i be friends with that person i so i understand why for you if someone's community seems to dislike you you may not want to be friends with them but from everything that every single time that you are ever brought up up until like just a couple days ago every single time that you were ever brought up in basha's chat if anyone's ever [ __ ] talking you vosh always says also you got hyena's saying that you guys weren't like weren't like friends you guys were like acquaintances but um has has said destiny is is good for the left destiny and i agree on on like most pragmatic uh um you know forefront issues that are relevant today you know vote for biden uh uh climate change is a big deal lgbt rights and all this josh literally was liking these tweets that were going viral dude i'm sorry like we're just never going to agree on this like like i'm sorry like i don't know what to say like on somebody sent me wait what oh the these apparently the z squirrel person the [ __ ] squirrel chick that was stalking you or whatever back in the day uh deleted their tweet uh oh no they did they oh i'm i'm i'm blocked by this a squirrel person never mind um that the z squirrel person also has like a massively insanely huge hate boner for me as well sure wait people are saying your stream died it reset okay california i just actually moved out to california two months ago i'm in palm springs my internet's been pretty good so far you move into uh florida um i'm not sure yet don't you don't want to move to florida i came from florida it's not it's not good dude okay so which which tweet did bosh like that i sent you a dm on discord did you get it um yeah here let me check okay let's see wait is my stream up right now or is it [ __ ] guys what are we thinking uh your chat was is responding to things now i think your chat's good i think your stream's good i'm seeing it i've constantly been the last resident destiny apologist but holy [ __ ] are you [ __ ] kidding me yeah when that clip came out everybody lost their [ __ ] because there was a fairly there was a fair amount of people that um that were like you know pretty upset with you but for the most part most people were pretty uh uh uh like shocked when that clip okay your stream is saying there's a network error i don't know if it's on my enterprise streaming rebecca yeah i'm streaming yeah okay wait somebody sent me a um a screenshot of a poll from uh i don't care about don't give a [ __ ] about polls i don't care that's not what i'm looking at i'm looking at how does the community respond whenever i'm brought up what are the types of materials that are made about me what are the types of comments posted there like a poll like do you like destiny yeah sure and then you're constantly [ __ ] on me in the community like i don't give a [ __ ] about stuff like that i don't think vash is [ __ ] on you no not vosh but his community and clearly the people closest to him very negative opinions of me so like i said before you have a higher likelihood of making some dumb [ __ ] thread calling you an alt-right or if somebody hates you then like if you're fine with them but these are like polls of people that are like in the stream chat that are active actual members of josh's and you should know you should know this as somebody who's like a political online figure that your discord and your reddit are going to devolve from just being the destiny reddit at a certain point like i know for a fact that your discord is like basically just like a like a a fairly left-wing politics discord like most people in there that are sitting in vc right now don't like actually watch you besides a couple videos on there but when you talk about the people their actual um uh what's the word for actual active members in his community it is overwhelming support for you up until that clip came out even on this even on this poll that was posted first of all it's got an insanely slanted title destiny made the claim that vaush's community hates him is it true and then the second most upvoted comment in this thread is guys i'm talking about a different thing i'll send you the picture okay i don't i don't care these are these are fine like there's there's too much um even if these were true like there's too much in the other way that i just like don't i don't care i i mean like there's wait you're this is these were polls taken like during the debate yeah somebody sent me that okay i mean i'm we're talking about what his community like the active members in his community think you're during the high point of our relationship because every other time that hasn't been you guys working together has been you guys going at each other's throats how do you think this helps you and that's not true we've only had like three arguments against each other for the most part we just do our own thing so you're saying that every single other point besides just do a debate they hated me that just agrees with my perspective then all right i mean i mean it just does not seem reasonable to me to lay it on vosh and want to completely burn the bridge with him for that when his girlfriend and roommate are the architects of me losing my twitch partnership and when vash is himself is liking those tweets you don't think it's reasonable for me to cut ties i wouldn't call them the architects of it your the the clip while dishonestly clip got around pretty far you haven't linked me a single example of that all i can show you was their clip they got over 500 000 views on twitter i mean if you if you name search yourself on on on twitter and search by like top or latest you're going to see um i mean besides like stuff that's unrelated like the destiny of the game one other person posting that clip that got over 10 000 views sure does anybody in chat have one wait so you're talking about your ass you don't even know if it's true i i i don't have it on me at the moment i saw that shared around constantly but you clearly have no idea you don't know you don't even know what you're saying is true right now i i literally no i know it's true because when i was on twitter i couldn't escape it for a week okay well if anybody has it anybody else getting massive views on that i'd be interested look at the squirrel girl she's the one that hates me the most if anybody else got more attractive than her except they reposted that literally 11 minutes after she did but didn't she get nuked and like had to make a new twitter account i i don't know what about it no i mean like she used to have like a [ __ ] ton of followers on twitter but then she got like nuked i think i don't know i stole her name and got that account banned but i mean i don't know if her account got banned or not but destiny i literally saw 100 000 follower lefty journalists retweeting replying to conyers [ __ ] tweet destiny did they repost it no they probably just retweeted it okay i was just interested like you're being insanely dishonest in this whole conversation i don't know if you're lying i want to be very very clear that i tried to be as honest as possible and my goal at the end of the day is for one i i don't want hate all lefties sure how old are you i'm 21. okay i forgive i forgive it all then all right do you have anything else to talk about in this listen i i i get it okay i've been doing i've been doing the youtube debating thing for like a bit over a year now okay but i i do feel like i try to take a pretty objective like fairly reasonable like person but you're not you don't have any evidence to back up any of what i'm disagreeing with you in terms of like like we're having factual disagreements of reality the best thing that you can produce to show his audience had a favorable opinion of me was a poll taken at the height of our relationship that barely breaks fifty percent in my favor favor and you're trying to even after that for like a while there were memes still being spread around there were memes for a few days i'm pretty sure within weeks after our conversation after that do a debate people were posting negative things about me again like every time i would every time i would go on into like the the redditor and the discord server and granted this is anecdotal generally people were speaking pretty positively and were like oh yeah i want to see bosh and destiny do more [ __ ] like that again i want to see vash and destiny talk more they want to see destiny get brainwashed into social [ __ ] that's what they want to see no no hold on a lot of people really wanted to see you and bosh speak more amicably because even if you aren't a socialist or a lefty i and i would arg and definitely bosh and a fair amount of people within bosch's community that aren't you know brain dead understand that on most issues even if you aren't a leftist or socialist or communist whatever we're gonna agree on most things and there's probably you know kind of a little bit of a right populist uprising happening right now a little bit of fascism that's probably a bigger threat to everybody right now than you know you need to be a socialist this year but clearly that's not what most left-leaning if we've seen anything online over the past [ __ ] year it's that left-leaning people don't give a [ __ ] about forming bridges and alliances that they want to cancel the [ __ ] out of everybody that is 100 ideologically aligned with them like this here's memes posted that are literally like [ __ ] like days before a debate like destiny hates poor people like jesus [ __ ] let me see wait a second you're poor and then the gun meme i don't think that this is a a sincere representation that you actually hate poor people it's it's the old picture of you holding the glock up to the camera and a massive uh uh what's the word for it uh exaggeration of the just move forehead meme that happened back when you and bosh had your original debate because a lot of people felt like you were uh like you were more or less uh trivializing the like how difficult it can be to like move and and uh yeah like all the top all the comments in the thread are auntie me come on let me i'm reopening it i already closed it it's not it's it is not very smart of me just prefer her son and bosh over destiny watches for obvious reasons with hassan has never seemed to come across as smarter than thou like destiny has so a lot of people think that i mean it's pretty reasonable to think that a lot of people would think that you're like full of yourself but that's sort of people that like me think that yeah sure okay well every well people who like like you like it because then you use it you know it's part of your brand but people who don't like you just then think you're an [ __ ] american history omni if a bullet is heading in your direction just move uh post this in a sub lol i think most people i think most people uh wait when did destiny become a skinhead i think most people weren't don't hate you from from this post i think most people were saying it's a funny meme how long ago was i do a debate again what was the date like two months ago oh [ __ ] [ __ ] well this was posted three months ago what happened with destiny let's see uh at the beginning of last night's stream bosh suggests that destiny may be politically irrelevant for a while because of a streak of his own i'm currently about an hour and a half into the vod that i believe he's referencing and it seems like destiny's usual sociopathic [ __ ] anyone have a clue this is 77 up votes there's a lot where he talks about it seems like politics and streaming are taking a bigger emotional toll on him than ever obviously no one has to agree with or excuse his behavior because of it but it's pretty clear he's struggling like most people here just kind of think that like dealing with lefties online is making you disaffected with with them not like saying that okay okay here okay so lefties that like me all right let's do these let's jump down these go for it you literally retweet the same tweet with fascism yeah it's a reference to uh do you know who non-compete is you don't think that you're implying that i'm acting like a fascist you well for one i hadn't seen the context of that and then somebody did show me the context and i was like oh yeah it's like the liberal side with fascism thing because you literally said that you well in the clip that you would if as long as it stops rioters then you would be fine with like redneck militia dudes mowing people down the street do you do you support rioting it depends against you i think you're riding in private businesses no okay do you think it's unreasonable to support people that try to defend private business against rioting who try to defend private businesses against right is it their business are they just people does that matter somewhere else no it matters if you're okay so were the koreans on top of the rooftops in l.a should they have [ __ ] off because they didn't all own those businesses i don't think that uh uh destroying property for one is a death sentence i should clarify that i don't think it's like warranting of a death sentence okay so if somebody were to go up to your house and say i'm gonna set this on fire you're not gonna have a place to live you think that like you should just if the only way to defend it is through lethal force you should just be like okay well good luck dude bye and you should just back off and let him do it it's certainly not the only way to defend it let's say that that's all you could do to defend it you let them burn your house your livelihood and your light that's more or less a threat to your life so in that case yes you would have and you don't think any of these businesses might have felt the same weight you don't no you [ __ ] you okay what do you mean in this hyper-specific example not everybody is born with a [ __ ] silver spoon they can start 50 million [ __ ] businesses you don't think a lot of these small businesses are literally these people livelihoods what are you talking about okay if it is your house being burned down of course you said livelihood don't people have insurance on their home don't people have health insurance why the [ __ ] do they cry about cancer so much let me explain now with the reason hold on i have to explain it because you probably and everyone else won't understand what i just said okay so i i really learned i have to walk you through this very [ __ ] slowly okay when you say don't businesses just have insurance i say well don't people with cancers have insurance to point out how absurd it is to prove that insurance alone is enough to compensate somebody adequately for an adverse life event we know that it's not the case with health insurance it's also not the case with property or business insurance sorry i had to get that out there so that people don't think i think that people cancer should die okay so but i know somebody would probably do you understand that saying they have insurance you know that they don't always get adequately compensated they might not have insurance that the insurance might not like pay in time but there's a million other reasons why just having insurance wouldn't be adequate here um that's so you brought up a very specific example and i was saying that in the case of these of most of these riots like for example didn't you say that you were uh uh that the rioters were justified and they burned down that one police precinct yes public property okay so i agree we agree there so if we go on to uh uh if we go on to the uh like private businesses right so if it's like a small mom and pop shop it's probably not like it's it's probably not okay and i don't support it i don't think those people deserve to be mowed down by you know like redneck white so they should be allowed to set the businesses ablaze if if they go there then no i would rather there not be an extra legal militia that goes okay listen well guess what okay wake the [ __ ] up we're in the real world there are people walking around streets burning down buildings okay we don't have time for 21 year old virgins on the internet to get on their keyboard and say well i would prefer if we just had the police take care of it the whole reason why these militias are out there is because the police can't [ __ ] handle the riots right that's the whole reason why they're out there so this is what we have either your business birds the reason the militias are out there is because they stand opposed to the to the movement of blm really so the people that were handing out bottles of water saying that we'll offer medical treatment blah blah blah those guys were all they were out there really i'm not talking about people that are out there with bottles of water like helping people out i'm talking about like oh that was kyle rittenhouse so i don't know who you're talking about but go ahead i i played defense for you on a lot of the kyle rittenhouse stuff i'm not talking okay so then those people in that case were out there defending property that was being torched by writers kenosha had been like embittered in violence for like two days there were riots going on we're hardly you can go you can i don't look i don't have to make this up okay you can like search like kenosha car dealership like you can find this stuff okay i'm not making this up okay it looks like [ __ ] it's a [ __ ] war zone you can literally find videos of this [ __ ] going on okay i'm not just like inventing this okay there are people on the streets that are setting [ __ ] on fire that are blowing [ __ ] up or whatever and the cops aren't capable of controlling this many [ __ ] people so what do you do right should they should the business owners just like walk away like oh [ __ ] it set my [ __ ] on fire like [ __ ] it like i don't want to use lethal force so um you agree that the point of protests and riots is to uh influence politicians to uh uh adapt their policies and then you through electoralism you elect those people and then you get the change that you're actually protesting for right you agree with that a little bit i think that the point of protesting is to raise awareness for your issues to change the politicians or make them um acquiesce to your uh to your uh policy goal yes okay so going back around to the point cause it's not a pivot um the point of like the way to stop these people isn't to stick like white redneck militias on them uh uh which is i think you can agree not ideal uh it would be rather for the government to uh acquiesce to the uh desires of these protesters and rioters and bring about major uh justice you are so [ __ ] disconnected from what's happening on the ground okay you're a business owner your [ __ ] is at [ __ ] risk you don't have time to well i hope the mayor passes a policy in the next legislative cycle lol this [ __ ] is happening right the [ __ ] now what are you going to do do you let them burn down your business or do you call some friends with rifles to stand in front of it and hope they go burn down somebody else's wait hold on yeah people are actually in chat are like making a good point like be a little careful because people on [ __ ] twitter are going to try to clip you dishonestly i haven't said it i'm not encouraging anybody to do anything i'm just asking what can you do people people listen twitter i know you know this just as well as i can ignore the people in chat i already lost my [ __ ] partnership anyway okay i'm just asking okay okay all right so simmer it down because i'm not trying to get you in trouble so the point that i'm making here is that generally and i think you agree with this the reason why these protests do you think that most of the writers it immediately or if someone else doesn't does that mean they deserve to lose their businesses i don't think that the rioters deserve to get mowed down by like extra judicially by uh so you think they have a right then to burn down the businesses no i don't think they have the right to do it okay if you have to be [ __ ] mowed down i need you to man the [ __ ] up and i need you to commit to a position and make a choice somebody is walking down the street with a group of friends and they're holding molotov cocktails they're coming towards your business are you allowed to defend it or do you need to walk the [ __ ] away make a choice don't pivot and ask me something just walk the [ __ ] away okay then okay then you don't think that anybody has a right to defend any of their businesses and they should all just burn if riders want to burn them why not just say that i don't okay why did it take us so long to get here why can't you just say that initially bite the bullet on and just say [ __ ] business owners let their [ __ ] [ __ ] burn okay so i'm trying to take a a partially like electoral uh uh perspective on this okay so the reason why these people are doing the riots i understand we're talking about from the perspective of these people right i don't think i don't think the solution is to sick a white nationalist militia on them the solution to what it solves the issue of easier no when it's way easier for for politicians to acquiesce to the demands it's not easy if you are an individual right now if you're an individual business owner it's easier to get some friends to stand in front of your business and wait to scare our protesters than it is to pray that the governor or the mayor does some miraculous policy change in two [ __ ] days that ends the riots if they want to stand out front be like hey don't burn down our place that's fine what do you think they do in your case you said you want them to mow them down i think they should be allowed to stand out front and be like hey don't don't [ __ ] with our [ __ ] uh please don't [ __ ] with our [ __ ] that i would not take issue with you but you said that they should have the right to mow down the okay let me let me just make sure that i understand you do you honest to god listening to that whole hour-long conversation you think that my position is that people should just patrol the speeds killing protesters then what are you talking about that's not your position i know for a fact it's not your position that's what the clip looked like that's why we argued in the first place that's why somebody clipped you dishonestly and it made you look bad but it was a 16 second clip and you didn't you didn't take even the the smallest amount well how long did it take you to look up context of what i was talking about it took me like a day when somebody sent me if it took you a day then why did you tweet this like two days ago if it took you one day can you explain it two days ago it was like five days ago or something like after it first happened you tweeted this yesterday can you explain to me your thought process on this tweet if you literally clarified yeah destiny's saying he's okay so this was in response to somebody i think destiny out of context i think you have them banned uh or blocked said something along the lines of everyone was cool with it when destiny said that uh uh it was okay to yeah throw back to when destiny called for violence against conservatives and said they they need to be removed from this country then nobody cared and then i responded saying those that are okay with destiny saying that somebody who is threatened by the policy that racist conservatives vote for like black people or whatever being violent to those voters isn't the same as saying he's okay with white redneck militias mowing down blm protesters which is what the clip said everybody what did the club say what did the clip say the the clip said let me i'm gonna try not to paraphrase sure the riots need to stop if that means that white redneck militias need to go out and mow down people think it's acceptable to burn [ __ ] at uh uh at 10 00 10 p.m at night then they have my [ __ ] blessings so it wasn't blm protesters it was rioters and arsonists why would you rephrase this to say just blm protesters i apologize for my for my phraseology oh my god you're 21 so i'll let it slide in 10 years maybe we'll be friends um i like holy [ __ ] i i i don't know if you're lying to me or to yourself on this i can't tell it's obviously it's impossible for me to ascertain without being close to you but holy [ __ ] listen destiny i i i do care deeply for you okay it doesn't matter that doesn't mean anything okay that'll be another thing when you get a little bit older people saying [ __ ] like i care about you that won't actually walk the walk they won't do [ __ ] this is why this is where this is why people that are 55 say things like talk is cheap okay because it is very [ __ ] cheap my friend it means nothing all the nice platitudes in the world don't mean anything if at the end of the day you're representing the worst of what exists on the internet against me like you're literally out there tweeting along with every other person like the worst types of things that you could possibly like say what was your tweet like even today wasn't it that i'm like the crash course season eight or whatever of a [ __ ] game of thrones i said that lately you the way that like the destiny arc has been going has been like the personification of uh of season eight of game of thrones what is i'm curious what part is there any part of this besides that one clip that you feel that about what can you gain one take that i've given over the past like six months that it's like entirely [ __ ] crazy or unreasonable to have that's such that's what i'm talking about i'm talking about the the like cutting it off with bosch thing it's that's why immediately after i posted a meme that was the uh original video of you and uh vosh talking and i said this is my buddy irish lady i like him a lot he's a hardcore lefty socialist but i like him i like them that's literally what i'm referencing the the fact that like how is that a reference to game of thrones season eight because it's the arc meme you know like the the story art thing i now you know all of game of thrones i want to know what reference i want to know how me and wash's relationship is a reference to game of thrones season eight it's because the arc is ending in a bad way okay you know how like people compare your streaming career it's like yeah but like why would you make that reference unless you were saying the entire thing was a dumpster fire that's the whole reason people reference game of thrones oh i should clarify i think i think up the seasons like six or seven was actually okay that's my degenerate opinion i think season eight was it was like so awful i couldn't finish it but i thought the rest of it was all right up until season eight but no and that and with that tweet i was referencing the the end of of you and bosh's sort of dynamic that's a very a loaded reference to make i like i mean if you click on my if you click on my account you can go see that the meme i posted immediately after was like going back to watch season one and it's literally the the picture of uh your original talk with bosh or one of your original talks with vosh and me uh yeah there it is right there and the doom remote emotion sure but like to compare that to all of game of thrones season eight that's a very grandiose comparison like uh seems like you were probably talking about just a little bit more no i mean i think so i think there has been like i i generally i think that your takes when it comes to the lefty arc like the people you've argued with for the most part have been really dumb i i've i've enjoyed the lefty arc more than most lefties i think because a lot of those same people have been um have been like really [ __ ] dumb uh like for example the tweet you just scrolled past with some [ __ ] populist lefty saying that uh old voters who vote for biden aren't poc [ __ ] like that that you hear from lefties online but i think some of the ways that you've gone about the engagement which you've already sort of justified for yourself um like you know it's just we have a difference in values for that has just been like way too nuclear just in in my opinion but we just disagree on that well hey i'm you know i'm super curious is there any lefty convo that i had where you felt like i wasn't taking them seriously enough can you give me an example of one where you felt like i was being a little bit dishonest or disingenuous oh with vosh definitely like you started scoring [ __ ] during that besides flash wait why besides wash i'm just curious if there's any other one besides wash um let me think for a second you've done a lot of them lately i list way more where i think you [ __ ] dunked on them wait no no i'm curious of their other lefties because you keep saying i don't give the lefty community a chance i'm curious because of osh is there somebody that i i don't give a chance to wait and say that you don't give them a chance i think the the way that you've gone about burning bridges with people and the way that you've reacted to these people broadly with the whole left has been uh uh like i disagree with that what other lefty person might burn bridges with like burn bridges i mean with hassan even if i think hassan wait do you think i burn that to bridge degree you responded in the same way that he did and i was in how did that bridge how did that bridge wait i should clarify i think you're justified in ending your relationship i didn't end that relationship why do you think i ended that relationship from what i remember i've tried to purge it out of my brain because it was upsetting from what i remember you guys like started getting constantly into fights and then hassan kind of like went masked off not actually like a liberal was actually a socialist and that kind of upset you and you felt betrayed and then hassan went and did like the the uh lied about you with the n-word thing it was a [ __ ] long thing okay yeah so we got into a disagreement over kamala harris after that he got ask that about me then we made up and then he tried to ambush me on a podcast saying that i was racist after turning my black friend on my podcast against me claiming that i was racist how is that me burning my bridge with his son because you okay because you proceeded to go pretty like hard saying hassan's like a dumb [ __ ] after that when i i i think like reasonably it would have been like hassan's kind of like a kind of dishonest and you mean after he was calling me like the ben shapiro of the left saying that i should stick to video games and then after he ambushed me on a podcast with two or three other insane black like nationalists trying to claim that i was like a racist or whatever and after he was like whispering in the ear of like my podcast co-host saying that i'm a secret racist or whatever then i called him a dumb [ __ ] you think that was like too far for me that's my fault that i burned that bridge wait i i think that for the most part like i said before like two minutes ago that you were fairly justified in in like the hassan [ __ ] the point that i was making about you and your interactions the left is when you talk with these dumb [ __ ] uh that do exist on the left the problem is you then broadly paint that to be the rest of them we've already talked about this yeah but that's what's been fairly upsetting because that seems to have held true so far that's why i'm asking if there's anybody besides that you feel like i'm painting unfairly well why why do i need to give more than i'm curious though i'm going to i can give more examples but do you want me to give examples because i'd love to sure go ahead okay sure so that um that bad empanada guy is [ __ ] insane you seem to handle it oh yeah right non-compete and is not compete the one with the vietnamese girlfriend yeah that guy piece of [ __ ] [ __ ] insane um caleb [ __ ] insane yeah the tanky guy yeah [ __ ] insane um michael albert the author of the participatory economics didn't even know what stock markets were what the [ __ ] um ben burgess i've talked to that guy a few times like his arguments were wholly unconvincing um let's see what other lefties um michael brooks talked over me the entire [ __ ] time didn't only have a sick like barely got in like two words with my conversation with him um peter coffin incredibly that guy's even more dishonest than you um totally [ __ ] snake in the grass total piece of [ __ ] um i've had multiple conversations with him um mike from from ccp um literally screaming at me saying i know nothing about politics while reneging on his bet because he knew he was wrong about bernie sanders uh jesus christ i've given more more more chances to lefties than oh thought slime that insane [ __ ] dude yeah joshua for congress the guy that i call that early is a [ __ ] scammer what i'm saying every person you've listed here i have had beef with and have done [ __ ] to me thought slime spread around a [ __ ] rumor about me having a sex cult while i was being okay wait then why are you mad at me every single lefty that i'm not mad about you for hating these people i [ __ ] loved it when you went after these people but then after you went after these people you then broadly stroked the entire left of the sky because every single one that i've interacted with has been like this like i just named 10 content creators that i think i've had multiple conversations almost every single one of these people and like they're all been [ __ ] horrible what these same i understand that these large lefty figures the ones that we're talking about besides like you know vosh and and whatnot have been pieces of [ __ ] and then you talk to these people and i agree these people are pieces of [ __ ] i don't even like them i've dealt with them but then i don't go on to say oh yeah the left is is [ __ ] [ __ ] after i do that that's the problem that i've had that i've had issues with i just i don't know where all these lefties are that i'm supposed to be sympathetic to like the ones that are still in your community after all this time that are like yeah i disagree with destiny on most of these issues but hey i mean at the very least like you know i we agree on mostly i am i'm nice to my audience i mean unless they say dumb [ __ ] i mean they're literally my fans like what like but i'm curious there are there any other is there a single other leftist content creator well haven't you said i mean contra points i mean she's pretty lefty she's not lefty at all she's exactly she's totally neoliberal progressive 100 she's like a sock dem which is com which is like a right-wing adjacent jason you literally tweeted yourself this is liberals um acquiescing to fascists or whatever like i'm a sucker as well i i generally think that like sock dem is is more left than than like it's pretty [ __ ] far left especially that not on the end are you serious i'm a [ __ ] sock then what are you talking about sock dem is not far left at all on the internet not even close stockton is literally literally neoliberal like if we're talking about the about the real world like sock dem is pretty left yeah but we're not talking about the road where we're talk yeah in the real world that's very true but right now we're talking about online yeah okay online i would say yeah contrary would be like i'd consider her a lefty like sockdem is is people literally have tried to cancel contra points over the trans stuff people have canceled try to counsel her because she said that she was worried that she converted people from the far right to the far left bread too but a huge threat on her way where they try to cancel like is contra points your go-to example of a lefty because she's been trying to cheat people on bread have been trying to cancel contra points like what do you mean yeah and i disagree with the people trying to cancel her and i've called them out incessantly the problem is i haven't extrapolated these negative experiences i've had with all these pieces of [ __ ] from the left that you've i'm asking you for one example of a lefty online a socials or communist that is a positive fan base that i should be having positive interactions with just one controversy have you ever uh have you heard of radical reviewer no he's just uh he he's like 20 000 subs he does videos where he like reads and reviews theory and that's the thing so all of the largest ones all of the most popular ones are [ __ ] horrible and horrible [ __ ] fan bases a lot of it like sean doing the bernie or bust [ __ ] a lot of those people like a lot of like larger bread tubers i have to admit and i can thank you for a lot of this i've lost respect for but i haven't gone and extrapolated this to to hate all lefties from that though all right well it sounds to me like based you're like reinforcing it even harder that like it seems like i've got like a pretty good heuristic that if you call yourself a socialist or communist on the internet you're probably a [ __ ] [ __ ] and you're probably like morally atrocious as well that seems to be like a decent like heuristic right now because it seems to apply to like every single large lefty content creator well if you have somebody who is like of your political opinion that you just [ __ ] hate because they they do some dumb [ __ ] and you run into a bunch of these people which is bound to happen eventually for depending on how long you are online would you then go on to paint everybody else that's like that um to be the same because you had like a [ __ ] ton of bad interactions with those people until they prove me otherwise like possibly yeah like for instance anybody that calls themselves a centrist i automatically have a pretty negative opinion of because when you say centrist i'm assuming you're aligning yourself with the likes of tim poole dave rubin joe rogan like this is what i think of when i think of center it's possible no that's reasonable but my my point that i'm making here is that i don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the people that you've debated i think when you engage with washington a lot of times it was like pretty pretty bad but like this guy my problem is is with how you've painted the entire like broader left this this this radical reviewer guy tweeted at me wait why is this so hard this radical reviewer guy tweeted at me and he said hey i'm wondering how analogous you feel the case of byron smith is to kyle rittenhouse regarding justified defensive property versus using defensive properties and excuse to play unjustified power fantasies i remember this twitter thread do you know anything about this byron guy no i don't know this guy literally set up booby traps in his house and he laid in wait for two like teenagers i think maybe not teens but two kids to break into his house when one came down the stairs he shot him like twice until the guy fell on the ground then walked up to him and assassinated him then waited downstairs for the other person to walk to the top of the stairs shot them multiple times saw they were suffering on the ground put his bullet to their [ __ ] chin and pulled the trigger and killed them and tried to claim self-defense this was the go-to comparison this guy had for kyle rittenhouse are you [ __ ] kidding me wait scroll down to the rest do you think it was like a facetious question or was it actually like uh do you think it was in like good faith like like genuinely asking you what your take was like this is such an absurdly [ __ ] a different comparison this guy was not under threat by these two kids this guy probably had ample opportunity to get help this guy probably had ample opportunity to disable these kids without killing him and this guy had at one point disabled them and decided to execute them once they were on the ground anyways this is so uncomparable in a million this guy's life wasn't under threat um he wasn't under duress the people didn't represent a clear imminent danger they didn't even represent the capacity to cause harm to this guy like this is like different on so many i can't even imagine how different this case is i agree with that but i'm asking you do you think that radical reviewer was asking this in bad faith if he's not asking a bad faith like the comparison is just so inapt so stupid i don't even know below he seems to be like i am very i'm fair very v uh vaguely familiar with it but i think it brings up interesting question burglaries are altercations that protests do happen what separates someone's reasonable steps to self-defense from an excuse like this seems like a fairly reasonable like discussion that he's trying to have right now not even this is not even remotely close in like a million different ways like first of all where's why wouldn't you have the philosophical discussion i know it appears like you know obvious to you but he seems curious on on your on your perspective on it when it comes to like self defense like you made a good case to me just now if you explain the same thing right there that you would probably be like okay yeah all right because the philosophy i mean like i set up booby traps and [ __ ] there was no reasonable yeah the philip had also heard him i don't know who this guy is but the philosophical discussion is very easy there's two key differences okay one is a guy laid in weight setting booby traps for somebody okay almost and then executed people once they were disabled and then the other case a person is running for their life being chased by another dude who seems like he wants to like do serious bodily harm to him so there philosophically the discussion is done okay now if we want to talk about like realistically even below he says that he thinks kyle rittenhouse is probably like a well-meaning kid that was just there which means he's already did like he's already defunded his entire initial point so why even bring this up this was like i think this was looking for a cheap gotcha what's the okay the only way i like this just doesn't seem like like the evidence that he's a piece of [ __ ] and you ask me are there any lefties that i should take seriously and i brought him up and and you brought up him asking you a question and and said that was that was him being a piece of [ __ ] it just doesn't seem like he's going that hard on you no it's not that he's a millionaire and he goes [ __ ] hard on you oh completely he's not it's not that he's going hard on me i think he's going hard but it's like this is like we're leading you anything like that like do you feel like he's trying to lead you into anything well yeah of course i don't know if he was hoping that i wasn't familiar with the case or i mean like it was on twitter so i could have read about it if i wasn't i don't know i'm not sure okay yeah what's up it's going fun i've i was excited to talk to you um but i've i just want to say in advance i super look forward to getting on twitter within like three days after this talking about how i admitted to either wanting to be a serial murderer about how i'm racist you are you will do it you will do this every single [ __ ] that i brought into the service did it to me literally [ __ ] two hours i know i'm sorry i was like 10 minutes after a [ __ ] conversation i know you will it's okay i accept it i look forward to the tweet and i look forward to hearing you rationalize why it's not actually stabbing me in the back or whatever don't worry about it it'll be i'm i'm not going to do that destiny my perspective has been the same this whole time it'll remain the same that i think you went too hard on on vosh for something that for the most part he had no control of until after it happened in which he condemned and and and like discouraged that behavior okay and has since talked about how it's an overall negative impact on the on like online left for you to have been like department because that without because that's lowering your efficacy for like fighting the alt-right what have you um so i my my point is when if we're going back to like the lefty thing i've had bad [ __ ] interactions with all of these people horrible ones like everyone from that piece of [ __ ] thought slime uh making up some [ __ ] about me having like a sex cult or some [ __ ] in my in my in my basement when i was stuck living with my parents in florida who wouldn't even let me leave the house and i had to [ __ ] move across the country to get away from them from [ __ ] bad empanada who to this day after like weeks of bitching at me because he's pissed off that i'm not burning or bust uh i've dealt with all of these pieces of [ __ ] and i sti and i haven't gone and just grown like a a hardcore aversion to lefties as a whole because i understand that for the most part like most of them probably mean well even if they have no [ __ ] clue what they're talking about or they're being you know [ __ ] like most lefties that aren't these creators that i take issue with probably mean well um it just seems like the like you've become very disaffected from dealing with these people which is understandable it's the reaction most reasonable people would have but i feel like because i've always seen you as being like ultra reasonable you know logic bro that you would be able to see like yeah these people these particular people are pieces of [ __ ] but i don't think most like lefties are are as bad as as these people oh this radical reviewer tweet y'all remember that time destiny thought landlords build your house oh my god dude okay i mean yeah if there are all these good lefties out there feel free to point them out to me um yeah do you think that most like people who are like far left are i online it's cancer i completely agree with you on that but do you think like most people on the left like lefties in general are like this online i think most people that are on any online political movement are lonely autistic [ __ ] who have no friends in real life and the only place they can find friends are on the internet but in order to maintain those friends they desperately cling to an ideology that lets them be permissible in the group and then they virtually signal the [ __ ] out of it so that everybody knows like that they belong to that group and that's how online politics is it has nothing to do with politics it has nothing with policy or history or poor people or any of that [ __ ] it's basically just i'm a [ __ ] loser i can't make friends in real life the only people that accept me are these weird people that hang up flags uh [ __ ] you know red weird text and worship [ __ ] stalin and i guess i'm just going to say all the things they want me to say that's what i think most lefties are like online and most alt-righters and most [ __ ] whatever other people but like like spend more than two hours a day talking about politics i think it's a mental [ __ ] disease if you spend as much time talking about politics as i do and you don't get paid for it do you think that a lot of people and i think you're gonna agree with this do you think of the reason why a lot of people end up going from like being far right to far left is because they feel like disaffected with like general like uh uh like they they want like somewhere to be like a political movement to put themselves behind us they can be part of something greater no i i think that most people just want a community of friends the reason why they go from one radical to the others because they never had any conviction for their underlying beliefs in the first place if you want examples of this look to wash his new friend shu on head june okay who has no conviction or spine for any of her [ __ ] beliefs she'll just say whatever she needs to do at the time to get as many people sucking up to her as possible she doesn't actually believe in any of the [ __ ] she talks about she just says what she needs to for internet views i think that's the majority of people online the content creators say what they need in order to get [ __ ] paid and the viewers believe what they need to in order to maintain their online friendships i disagree with that one a lot i think for sure on head she she's always been like a sock dem but found herself in like uh uh supporting trump interesting she didn't support trump no but she said a lot of like i don't think trump's gonna be that bad for lgbt people remember when she came out during the trans military band and she was like we had no idea it could be this bad i'm so sorry guys [ __ ] save me save it i don't want to hear it that's not her changing her opinion that's her realizing that she was wrong no it wasn't her reality he's probably her realizing that she couldn't go that hard against trump because if she did she'd probably lose a lot of her viewer base that's probably what it was she probably picked up a [ __ ] ton from her boyfriend a lot of those people were probably still [ __ ] trump fans so she always is careful about what she says online so that she can be in whatever is ideologically popular at the time it's no strange thing that a lot of the [ __ ] centrists or whatever that were you know super [ __ ] skeptics or blah blah blah like [ __ ] shoe unheaded [ __ ] like are all of a sudden now like being hard [ __ ] lefties or literal [ __ ] commies and sometimes tankies like i don't think it's that much of a coincidence what i'm pretty sure happened was there was a lot of like the really cringey like uh i think we both agree that like the the buzzfeed things talking about man spreading were like pretty cringy and a lot of them got caught up because this happened to me and and then you kind of got me out of this kind of [ __ ] um they got caught up in like critiquing this kind of stuff and then didn't realize that what they actually take issue with isn't like oh the left is becoming all whatever it was they disagree with like the id poll kind of weird uh uh pop feminism pop uh progressivism stuff that's what happened with shu okay not that her opinions change it's like she re her perspectives changed on like what's causing very conveniently shifted along with the rest of the internet and her fan base it's nice how that works out sometimes yes because actually and and i think you'll agree with this um because you took part in this because up until you started debating these all writers and tearing these people down the prevailing thought and it's starting to happen again with like the [ __ ] drama community and the leafy keemstar [ __ ] um i've been caught up in that um is like the prevailing thought was uh sjw's bad and then you kind of came in and along with that we saw contra points get really popular and like philosophy too h bomber guy all them started to get really popular and the overton window of like political conversation online while not moving fully left moved quite a bit further left and a lot of people who didn't really exist online before that that at least weren't getting completely dog piled by alt-right youtubers that were like making response videos to them kind of came along and made a lot better arguments than the people that are around before we're currently making and you are one of them you were one of the people that came along and made better arguments than a lot of people that are around before that's why i deal with what i said the difference is that like now there are people out there a whole community of people of which you took part in making better arguments than there were people than people were making back then no i don't think so i think most people just follow the ideological trends on the internet ten years ago it was atheism five years ago it was [ __ ] skepticism two years ago with radical centrism and now it's moving into like socialist common [ __ ] none of the people are making any better arguments than they were 10 years ago they've just moved from one ideological brain rot to another ideological budget that's true to a degree but tim poole is literally the largest politic isn't him pull the largest political figure on youtube right now like pulling i think he's pulling millions of views per video and he's uploading multiple videos per day um not to mention like right now we're seeing i'm pretty sure it's like bouncing up to gamergate too with the like the [ __ ] with like the drama community uh going after like female twitch streamers for like being twitch thoughts whatever the [ __ ] like with the invader v [ __ ] the pokemon [ __ ] all of that like i don't think the general direction of the internet right now is anywhere close to socialism is cool guys i think generally what's happened is that a lot of new creators that weren't around back then in 2016 were um uh uh kind of gain prominence came along and start making arguments that those that weren't around back in the day were making i don't think do you think the quality of discourse has gotten better remember when june like two years ago was literally [ __ ] like making videos with [ __ ] lauren southern and was getting mad at her fan base for saying that like oh no like we're cool it's actually chill like this person is now hard left seriously her opinions have always been the same when it comes to politics like you have to understand at least for me maybe because you've for the most part like this was around the time when you started doing what you were doing like from my perspective as somebody who had like fallen down the alt-right rabbit hole um a lot of the ideas of people like lauren southern did not come off as being neo-nazi [ __ ] it took somebody who actually understood how to make a good argument to explain hey by the way these aren't people just asking questions these are neo-nazis who are dog whistling and using euphemism to express um uh and now we and now we've got a bunch of lefties that do what the righties used to do now they just dog whistle for [ __ ] tanky [ __ ] like we the the discourse hasn't improved at all we just moved from one dumb [ __ ] to another like it's just all these ideological clubs of people that are so desperate for friendship that they'll cuck out to whatever the current popular ideological trend is on youtube i'm not talking about tankies and tankies are pieces of [ __ ] i'm talking about like like bread like bigger bread tubers not the kinds that you seem to hate like generally like all the breadcrumbs are dumb as [ __ ] too like contra is cool but i don't even know if i would consider her a bread tuber at this point um i mean i like i probably would i guess i mean i i don't know if i'd consider myself a bread tuber because that term is cringe and also if you call yourself that then you're getting dog piled by a bunch of dumbass lefties on twitter like my my overall point here and is in what i take issue with is it seems like um i mean if you want to go back to like the the the reason why like i guess we're talking about show on head now is that before you and like because you kind of came to prominence at the same time like bread tube like the the bigger ones came to prominence as you started tearing down a lot of these alt-right figures right like going on the kill stream and and debating [ __ ] all those people you um at the time before that most of the lefty content creators online that were making uh content were making arguments were their only attention they were getting the mass majority of their viewership was coming from people responding to them and sending hate brigades their way that was where most of it was happening from there wasn't anybody there wasn't a community of like left-leaning content creators that were making good arguments for their opinions back then and when that came along a lot of people had their minds changed okay do you disagree with that um i mean like where are all of these critical thinking people now that are making these good arguments for changing people's minds where did they go i mean what happened to them well i mean i'd say that for the most part each bomber guy and contra points and the larger ones are making pretty good arguments and even if i disagree with people like thought slime and whatnot at least they're pulling people away from being nazis and to like i mean i i don't think thought slams the tankies railing as much as i hate thought slime he's railing on caleb maupin right now um i don't know i mean i guess like not being an alt-righter is probably good and not being a white supremacist that goes out and kills people is good but like the level of stupidity in most of these people's like videos is unbelievable and then like worse yet i guess for me economically is these people realize their ideas are untenable so they won't even talk about them so people like thought slime and non-compete for instance are too scared to even engage in conversations because they know that their points are like so [ __ ] stupid um i don't know i mean i mean it is what it is i don't know what i don't know what you're trying to achieve with this conversation but i don't think you've made me feel any more favorable towards any of these people i mean i my overall goal is to sort of try to present the idea that mo like at least for me um like that most lefties or at least me aren't like militias not all lefties are like these malicious pieces of [ __ ] that are trying to go after you and like ruin your career like that's not my goal definitely as somebody that likes you quite a lot um like i'm i'm it just seems like you've kind of painted the whole left of the broad brush yeah and i think for the duration of this conversation you've more or less reinforced that opinion that i've had i don't think you've pushed back against that very well okay um alrighty um i'll see you around okay have fun bud have a good stream torture your [ __ ] and balls must endure two spaces forward your [ __ ] will be stretched

Channel: Destiny

Views: 389,089

Keywords: steven bonnell, destiny, destiny streamer, destiny debates, destiny twitch, destiny vods, destiny rajj, vaush, debate

Id: ULyTIl9CjXE

Length: 110min 12sec (6612 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 15 2020