Vaush And Xanderhal Takedown Video | LEFTIST CIVIL WAR

you can make fun of ben shapiro and jordan peterson all you want uh if it makes you feel better or if it makes you feel like an elitist or if it makes you feel or whatever but like the fact of the matter is is that these are two like wildly influential people and they have a hold over a huge audience that the left just basically said [ __ ] you and abandoned when the song started he was a debate bro the only reason i even had him on my stream was because of a big debate he had with charlie kirk then it was prep prepare for future debates if you come out of the non-compete vosh arguments thinking that non-compete looked good there i think you probably are you're really you need to check your political bias or something but the thing is is that like even vosh would agree with this like they act like it's some big one like oh well vosh like they would say like vosh okay hold on i haven't watched the professor flowers debate so i'm like indifferent or ambiguous like i don't have i don't have a strong opinion that kind of sounded like a justification for uh genocide solving the debate bro problem noah samson's a [ __ ] idiot oh noah the coward noah sampson who said that he liked me in a video and then later posted like a minute long retraction in the following video i have no problem with black craters getting really big however fd signifier is a dumb [ __ ] what bro what are you talking about man hassan [ __ ] is an idiot nobody learns anything new from hassan i don't believe that hassan is capable of defending socialism as a concept i don't think he understands it enough to defend it as a concept ufd signifier [ __ ] you noah samson thank you hassan [ __ ] go [ __ ] yourself don't be proud that you can't defend your ideas in a debate don't proudly exclaim to the online right and everybody watching that the left isn't and shouldn't defend their ideas i'm sure that noah sampson will just end up putting out another video about how debate bros are awful and uh with the bisexual lighting and the and everything like that what is bisexual lighting what based this is not an anti-debate bro video this video is and i hope we can improve our online conduct and get better at recognizing white supremacist structures in leftist communities video oh god that sounds so boring good luck that in order to do this we need to use a couple of debate bros as our caucasian punching bags but they won't mind as a matter of fact they like it they love it even they love it when this happens to them and we love to see it this video is sponsored by white on white crime i'm here to correct the record on some falsehoods that are being spread around the d-boy zone and also expand on my own personal criticisms of these spaces i personally and you can [ __ ] on the top of my head for saying this but i personally think that people like bosch have the ability to do a lot of good with their platforms teaching young people how to use arguments and rhetoric to push back against their nine o'clock bedtimes for reasons not unrelated to gaming spreading socialism with discord characteristics across the globe no but seriously i do appreciate what he and other members of the live streaming community do it's a different skill set that's uh important to have and denigrating this community from the outside is the last thing that i want to do that being said there are some clear problems with the way that debate spaces operate that will only continue to arise until they are properly addressed so that's why i'm here i can fix them obviously that's not going to happen but you know what they say shoot for videos to talk about debate breastplates i never mentioned destiny it's kind of weird um they used to but now i think they consider me like alt-right fascist adjacent or something so they're like destiny can't do any good for left-leaning spaces we have to rely on like making vosh better it's like or something because destiny is lost or so i think is my yeah and then i know he's also said he's making a standalone video with me too which i'm sure will have all the fun it's me good faith gary this is good faith gary everyone say hello patty no not you i'm telling them to say hello to you oh my bad wait gary aren't you just clippy from the windows i don't know who that is i'm pretty sure you are like that animated microsoft it's gary so it's on my birth certificate who do you think this character is inspired by anybody any takers in chat one guy said it it feels like a combination of meat wad and the moona knights from aqua team hunger force is what it feels like well i'll tell you what it is it's mayonnaise i've brought good faith gary in to help us out by stepping in if i ever start acting and what debate streamers might deem bad fate i'm gonna be looking out for any uncharitable strawman poisoning of the well style situations hopefully this will help keep the dialogue open because honestly i don't trust myself enough to not be a dick to viewers of debate streamers even though i used to be one of them yeah you've been on leftist twitter for a little too long huh right i'm good faith gary and i love to engage okay man setting up shop in the marketplace of ideas you can go now but just ping me if you need to interject okay all righty good faith to you and yours if you do need a pause now would be a great time while i have my patreon link on the screen go refill your nuggies and warm milky and pay me some money okay i'm doing god's work i had been spending the last month or so working on a couple different scripts for videos when the following clip was brought to my attention last week it's from a video by the leftist streamer and youtuber xander hall titled why left tube is dying and the next anti-sjw wave is rising oh no this situation sounds dire we better take a look see what's going on you'll notice and we talked about this earlier there are some people online in the political scene right now that are left-wing that are growing and are doing well many of the creators that are really blowing up right now are newer essay commentary bisexual lighting youtubers good example this is noah sampson we just did a segment earlier covering oh hey that's me noah sampson how he's actually a dumb oh god damn it that dude is literally gaining 4 000 subs a day right now and this worries me i am worried about channels like noah samson and people like hassan blowing up on youtube because they're stupid and they can't defend their positions now here's where i paused the video and thought tom hardy gif from mad max fury road that's bait right has to be or maybe it's a performance like somebody forced an ai to watch debate streams for a year straight and then had it write a manifesto and then microwaved eminem for 20 seconds and had him read it at gunpoint can't defend their positions so i kept watching the video because you know i support small gamers and that's when i saw this xander hall responds to a message in the chat that mentions several popular black leftist creators by name some of whom are relatively new to youtube try giving more examples lol progressive leftist channels by black creators have been getting really big this past year for example i'm so glad you brought this up i'm so glad you brought this up cause some of the examples you list here i know i know these people and they're exactly the problem i'm talking about these people sorry i have no problem with black creators getting really big however let me check something really quick fd signifier is a dumb [ __ ] i'm sorry guys i'm sorry okay so he's definitely doing a little bit of trolling why else would someone say something like that about ft signifier of all people the final boss of the wise uncles of youtube.com if he isn't baiting us for hate clicks here and has just deemed himself the racial arbiter of who's allowed to make left-wing youtube content i feel like this is a little so i'm gonna be a little picky here i don't think xander hall is going for a racial bend here it feels a little bit like i i hope this guy in all the drama that i've heard about this i hope that he actually makes some arguments in response to some arguments in this video instead of like loading it all like this like oh well he's racist like it's such a lazy boring way to engage with anything or or it's a lazy boring way to avoid a gauge engaging with anything i hope that the rest of this is a little bit better than this but i mean if it's all just humor now maybe we're just setting up for some memes let's check uh and that's not much better is it no oh i'm fine with black people coming onto left tube but i have some conditions seems well like because like even that xander hall quote initially sounded really bad i think i even cringed when i heard in the intro but now it sounds like he's saying he's saying this in response to a person in chat saying literally well there are some black creators that are growing now if xander would have responded well i don't think that those people are good then noah would be making the same video what do you mean by those people so i'm sure in xander hall by the way also to make my position clear i hate xander hall i don't i don't think that guy is a very good bubble and i [ __ ] hate his girlfriend okay i just saw both in texas i said as much there okay but regardless i don't think he's racist okay i don't think he means like i need to be the arbiter of black content creators you know like i'm pretty sure that it's more just like listen that's great that there are black people coming here okay like i'm against black content creators but these guys are dumb right that's that sounds like what i think this is pretty easy to understand that this was the essence of what xander hall was saying rather than this weird like racially loaded way of kind of viewing things but pretty weird earlier in this stream he goes over how his channel is uh well dying it's a pretty unfortunate segment but i assumed at this point him lashing out here had something to do with that but eventually he gets to a claim of sorts he's going to be on the screen for a little while so just a heads up if a radiation sickness warning shows up on your hud um you should probably just pause the video and go take a shower fd signifier is a dumb [ __ ] i was iffy on him for a while he's been [ __ ] talking the debate bro thing for a while now he's also gone on twitter and said some dumb [ __ ] [ __ ] about like oh [ __ ] i think xander i feel like xander's right here i feel like i watched fd signifier he did one of those things about how debating is bad on youtube or blah i'm probably not fairly clear i feel like i skimmed through this video it just seemed like another boring like no response no actually addressing anything kind of video um i but i could be wrong it's been a while since i saw this and i didn't go through the whole thing i thought it was a long video i could be wrong and i just heads up tube debate bros and stuff like that here's the thing people like fd signifier noah sampson these all have one thing in common they hate and non-stop [ __ ] talk debate bros don't just [ __ ] talk the concept of being a debate bro and claim that debate bros are all toxic [ __ ] gross [ __ ] who make the left worse you're starting to see that rhetoric get really popular among the left right now you guys notice how everyone i meet and interact with in my life ends up calling me an [ __ ] it's so weird that rhetoric is getting really popular right now whoever's doing that we got to stop what oh good faith gary is coming this whole video so far has been kind of not good but okay sorry here let's let him finish making his point do you think that the left online would do better with people like hassan and noah sampson an fd signifier being the largest figures on it the types of people who say debate is bad who literally say debating is bad people who literally as a concept are against debate and defending your ideas and they publicly say so do you think that this is what we want representing the left okay so xander hall says that hassan feek and i are as a concept against debate and defending our ideas and goes on to conclude that this will inevitably end in a weakening of the online left because i'm starting to see the online left turn into what it was back during the gamergate era one of the biggest common talking points from the right during this era was that nobody would have gathered too afraid to debate and defend their positions that's why jordan peterson and ben shapiro blew up so much that's why and they didn't debate well and they weren't telling the truth they just debated just the fact they were willing to debate gave them more credibility than the left because nobody on the left wanted to be yes famously credible intellectuals jordan peterson and ben shapiro must be biological okay oh god uh this is a waste of my time i knew i didn't want to cover this and i knew it was gonna be a waste my [ __ ] time and i know i was gonna be super [ __ ] bored doing it like you can make fun of ben shapiro and jordan peterson all you want uh if it makes you feel better or if it makes you feel like an elitist or if it makes you feel or whatever but like the fact of the matter is is that these are two like wildly influential people and they have a hold over a huge audience that the left just basically said [ __ ] you and abandoned that's a problem um whether you like to admit it or not or whether you're white enough or rich enough that like at the end of the day you actually don't give a [ __ ] over who's influenced by who because at the end of the day who cares like white men aren't really threatened in in the united states make up regardless of who's in power um so i like i i wish this is there's not gonna be like an honest engagement with anything in this video it's just all gonna be but maybe maybe it'll get better um man what a sad f i have to delete the vod if i'm going to spend a whole vod defending [ __ ] xander hall then you know that something has gone very very very awry the conversation maybe good faith gary is going to make a a huge redemption here and uh save the video so where is xanman getting this impression about us well i have a few ideas i've gathered some clips together of criticisms made about debate bros by the people he's mentioned these are things that i both agree with and think may be the source of this characterization sorry if this is a bit tedious but i think it could be potentially helpful to have all of these critiques sort of compiled here to give a little context as to the state of this riveting discourse during a recent live stream hassan voiced some criticisms about the debate bro's fear and the audiences it tends to cultivate something else that i'm curious about is when we've been analyzing xander hall's motivations a lot of it now noah can because thank god irony has evolved at this point no i can hide behind humor and joking for all this well i didn't mean to say that xander was actually being racist i didn't mean to say that uh xander hall was being you know in flat like like he can always say that he was just joking but like he's framed xander or like i didn't mean to say that people don't like the beyblades just because they don't like me those were just kind of jokes i was taking the piss out of xander i didn't really like mean it right and he can hide behind that that irony there or that but hide behind the humor there but now i wonder when he analyzes like hassan somebody who clearly hates debate bros because he sucks at debating because he tried remember when he when the song started he was a debate bro the only reason i even had him on my stream was because of a big debate he had with charlie kirk and it was prepar prepare for future debates that should be applauded by everybody by the way that's a ridiculous talking point too because like the republicans are cutting those programs and then making it seem like it's a positive thing because people have gone off but it's even like that that is kind of true but there's a better way to frame that actually what you say is is that your bar for success for the united states is people getting off food stamps that's the difference between you and me you want to keep everybody barely [ __ ] living and i want the country to thrive always speak in the positive right yeah always try to stay in the positives yeah yeah um no no my point was that like it's not necessarily a good metric to say that uh 3.9 million people are all food stamps because they didn't willingly get off food stamps just because the government decided that we don't uh we don't want to give this many food stamps away it's like that's actually cutting government programs and then making it seem like it's a metric for success that was my perspective sure yeah it is but just keep in mind like your best answers brevity is so [ __ ] important if you can hammer home a quick good powerful talking point and as few words as possible it yeah it's so much more powerful than having to launch it sucks because on our side our answers are all more complicated than just pull yourself up by your bootstraps it's you got to find those simple answers that you can hammer home right and he debated on trainwreck's show and he debated on the uh raj royales and he debated people on stream in my community and other community right that's what that's where hassan tried to start at that's dumb anyone can get a [ __ ] like don't do that you don't want to go oh you privileged a little [ __ ] you think every intellectual disabled is one thing that we brought up before but even beyond that even who don't have people who don't have enough time and access the same level of education that you do that you take for granted with your [ __ ] philosophy degree i think it's a totally reasonable perspective but instead you said that literally everyone has the money and time to study philosophy you could have dodged that one but you ran face first into it my friend no it's confirmed ren is cancelled he hates black women what are you talking about i absolutely agree with that no you don't don't do this argument but he sucked at it and it was bad for networking because he didn't get to collaborate with other large content creators so hassan's so i wonder if any of that is going to come up in this video for why maybe hassan is really critical to ray bros or if we're just going to assume that hassan is the purest of intentions and is only talking about like the negative or positive effects on the queen right let's see let's see where we go on this [ __ ] i agree but i also see the downside of never having your viewpoints challenged with opposing views yawn okay here's the thing this notion that you are having your opinions challenged in the marketplace of ideas is a silly one that would make ben shapiro the most intelligent person on the internet you're not a man if you think you're not if i call you something i absolutely freaking despise the vapors it's enough and also remember it's not about being the most intelligent person because that's not what matters what matters is that you have the perception of being the most intelligent person ben shapiro or jordan peterson can be wrong about 70 million things but if people on the internet think that these guys are god's gift to earth or the next coming of jesus it doesn't really matter they like they may as well be the most intelligent people because they're going to be the ones that have all the sway all the pull all the clout all of the influence which is at the end of the day what you want if you're a political person and your goals are politically aligned influence is what you want because influence is one step away from from power which is what you're trying to exercise in any political action because you don't care about the actual morality behind the ideology that you supposedly believe in you don't care about the outcomes you do not have like a well-grounded materialist perspective on issues you are simply going towards who is the most powerful intellectual gladiator fd signifiers break bread is a video that covers the history and current state of bread tube or left tube and the barriers posed to non-white creators on this platform there's a section in this video that had some things to say about debate bros let's take a look at a clip and this problem with debate bros and their fandom who understand make up a very significant chunk of left tube viewing including my own is the problem of most white left to both creators and consumers which is for all of the theory and research and outward rejection of white supremacy on paper the vast majority have not taken the time to dismantle the white racial frame through which they see the world so even with the best intentions the behavior and viewpoints born out of this space is still going to be rooted in racist frameworks unless the concept of whiteness is addressed essentially if you read marx and trotsky and gramski and what you want to do ski and whoever else but not the boyce phenon hooks crenshaw etc bro i'm sorry but literally nobody reads any of these nobody in any of these spaces reads [ __ ] anything but it's funny that it's funny that you i don't even know [ __ ] the average debate bro me included has read enough to even be a white supremacist by your definition like you might be a leftist white supremacist and thus this colors the nature of leftist content and inadvertently makes things dangerous for the marginalized voices that get caught in the wake of this highly toxic highly negative energy if that last part sounded oddly specific don't worry we'll get to that foreshadowing is a narrative technique when you talk about something and you talk about it again later my most vocal criticism of debate bros came in the follow-up video to my left tube guide with a section on debate bros not gonna lie i wrote that script in about an hour so not my cleanest work i also played some out of context clips of vosh um it was meant to be a joke but it ended up just being me playing out of context clips of vosh so to the gamer gods i formally and humbly apologize to repent for my clip chimping sins i will be live streaming dark souls this week so make sure to press subscribe and hit that [ __ ] bell you you piece of [ __ ] you little [ __ ] worm but the point of that section was to document some of the problems with debate pros that i had missed in my initial video where i promoted a bunch of people some of them rather uncritically my main points were don't rely on debate streamers as your sole source of information and don't take anything your gamer of choice says at face value and these are things that i stand by they're also particularly relevant to today's video now when xander hall takes what we've said here and elevates it to the claim that we are against debate as a concept well this is just not true i'm going to play some clips that refute this point now again incredibly tedious i apologize but potentially helpful for context and also to prove that we are coming in good faith when we criticize debate bros pandering to the good faith gays if you will here is hassan from that same segment of his stream where he acknowledges the utility of debate i'm not saying that like there is no value to responding or learning and recognizing the talking points that right wingers engage in of course there is people especially right-wingers in general love to arm themselves with the same talking points that they're disseminating out of think tanks unless you're talking to like a total dumbass right winger you're gonna hear some [ __ ] takes that you will hear from ben shapiro verbatim so there is value to learning what those talking points are and understanding why they're [ __ ] stupid here is speak okay i do not feel like that i don't know if that was just too edited or what i don't feel like that clip supported his claim whatsoever am i wrong it felt like what now i'd have to go and watch the full hassan video because this thing got cut up like a [ __ ] but like um it felt like all hassan was saying is just memorize right wing talking points so that you can like have the counters to write when talking points but i don't know if that was like an explicit endorsement like well sometimes debating people can be good that just sounded more like memorize the talking points i guess maybe some people can view those as the same thing i guess but opening the debate pro section and break bread with some concessions and to be fair if i had it in me to watch the three and four hour streams of these guys talking and playing video games i doubt i would have anything negative to say about 95 percent of what they do on stream and i understand that when you're talking for that long you're liable to say some things that maybe you wish you hadn't said i don't individually think that these are bad people or even that they need to be ousted from the left i think that that very concept of ousting people is part of the problem really look at all that good faith oh man now you have to consider these are the people that he's citing to build upon his arguments and so he's picking the strongest support that he can find from them i don't feel like either of those were like even an implicit endorse sort of like debating it kind of just sounded like fd was saying like well you know we shouldn't [ __ ] guillotine these people that's a far cry from saying no these guys like debate they think debate is good so much good faith you're not having to believe how much faith is good in there good faith all the time one of the things i hear thrown around the debate zone a lot is the concept of the left having a diversity of tactics so different styles of content for different audiences all with the intent of spreading leftism as far and wide as possible and on a macro lens the better we are at making this content the more views it gets and the wider audiences are cultivated the better off we will be because this will mean less people gravitating towards right wing content and more people learning about socialism and that all sounds good to me no notes i am so proud of you thanks okay well one note is what we do on here an actual political force or is it entertainment if so how can that be quantified if not just how much are we over valuing our utility to society beyond carving out a new consumer demographic of leftist content if the style of leftism i want to promote is different than your style and it's a style that you don't like is this going to be an issue are you going to use your large platform to strike me down noah you're vague posting are all forms of content equal when it comes to learning no it's stopping so many questions no answers for now okay that was weird man what have you never heard of the socratic method oh okay yeah never mind i like it i like that a whole lot okay oh that's so good all right um briefly i would like to take a deep dive into an interaction i had recently that i think might be helpful for illustrating some of the problems with online communication wait can can somebody like me is twitter does this guy block twitter and samsung because i'm putting 100 oh i'm not blocked pride about ray showing you oh but he always does it like super ironically so that he can always say that it's like it's always a joke he hides behind that it's like the samhain defense action specifically regarding the topic of debate it's a little detour but stay with me though i tweeted this a few weeks ago saying that basically i do not think white genocide is something that we should be debating oh because um this was in regards to i think me and lauren southern talking maybe because he's responding to dylan burns where i think dylan was defending me about this god it is so cringe when i was like oh that's not a topic worth debating really there's a lot of people that might disagree with you oh it might have been the mark cala debate yeah the long debunked white supremacist talking point about the white population being eradicated through immigration gary i need you hey y'all explain to them why this tweet is a problem for you and your people over there gladly in the debate sphere there is a conception of the archetypal twitter lefty that says things like human rights aren't up for debate or it's not my job to educate you this in our minds inhibits the left's ability to argue for concrete policy positions because if we can't have difficult conversations we can't solve difficult problems this might have been what xander hall was referencing when he was talking about you being unwilling to debate his tweet plays into that stereotype and makes you look really dumb that's me quoting them i don't i don't think you're dumb no i think you're a nice enough guy thanks uh gary maybe it'll be useful if you just clarify what you meant here sure gary sounds good as long as racist and fascist and other bad ideas exist they should be challenged whether that's through debate essays one-on-one communication imessage tinder hinge writing it on the ground in the woods whatever someone pointed out the fact that tucker carlson goes on his show every night and uses white genocide rhetoric for hours on end in front of millions of people that's a good point it's not like it's not happening as much as i'd love to be able to say white genocide doesn't exist and be done with it because it doesn't i recognize that for other people in different areas of the political spectrum it's not that simple especially in the general american population we still got a lot of work to do getting them caught up here's the original image that led me to tweeting this this image to me is what sociologists might call sassy wussy two white dudes on a live stream titled debating white genocide racism is it really that bad noah i can understand why this looks problematic to you but the thing is those dudes were actually providing arguments against it right and that's good right yeah somebody's got to do it i suppose that's true however my disdain for the idea of still having to debate things like white genocide comes from somewhere mainly it comes from the part of me that feels like the real world significance of de-radicalization by youtube content has a tendency to be overstated online or to put it another way converting to leftism by consuming debate content can come with certain side effects you might have had a de-radicalization experience thanks to someone like fosh or destiny or even xander hall god help you and that's great seriously i'm not here to knock on that the less alt-right the better but my concern is that by staying in these spaces it becomes easy to maintain habits of consumption that can inhibit your ability to recognize the reactionary tendencies that you or the people around you might still hold noaa echo chamber characteristics can be found in any online community right that's the basis of how they form by bringing like-minded people together there will always be issues like the ones that you mentioned that's true but the debate bro ozone echo chambers seem to have a uniquely grading effect due to their highly charged environments massive platforms and self-appointed status as the gladiators of online anti-fascism one of the biggest problems back in 2014 and 2016 is there were no lefties online who weren't you know insane to say no we don't actually believe that all white people are evil and and we don't want to do this this and this that you claim we want to do it wasn't until people like destiny and bosh and me and trudlogic and demon mama and just like left-wing debate people came along that argued against those effectively that you really started to see that narrative start to get pushed down there are a few examples i could use here to illustrate my point but why don't we start with xander hall sorry guy there's a new lol cow in town and it isn't a feminist gaming journalist this time it's you zan xander alexander halia ocasio-cortez sorry it's not funny at all actually the most viewed video on xander hall's channel is called how i fell down the alt-right pipeline and escaped it's from december of 2019. we've seen this story before but basically he got into some pepe shenanigans with his gamer friends and was eventually pulled out of it the thing that pulled him out in his case was destiny's debate with jontron where destiny ended nazism once and for all or something like that i didn't i don't know i didn't watch it he concludes this 48 minute video with what he sees as the most important aspect of online politics as he moves forward on his journey into leftism there's one thing above all of this that may be the most important thing and that's optics i know i'm not just speaking for myself when i say that the stereotype of an sjw is off-putting to most people don't let yourself fit into the mold of the straw man that reactionaries have made of us if we defy their expectations and their stereotypes they won't know how to counter us us leftists we have facts statistics data and even historical context on our side if people like us can drown out the loud minority that the right uses to make their hit pieces they won't have any more material first of all what did this person do to you they look fine they look good i want a portable ball sack where do you even get that i love this though he's like yeah you can be a leftist as long as you're not one of those filthy [ __ ] degenerate sjws because they make us look very bad i know this because right wingers told me so but let's cut him some slack that was two wait come on yeah why not engage with this like a little bit more good faith right like optics are important it's really irritating that on the left you know you get these people that look oh objects don't matter who cares like who cares we look like who cares about anything blah blah blah and then meanwhile on the right they've realized like okay well we should probably clean our act up a little bit you know like dog whistling is a hell of a lot better than being outwardly racist our people should look good we should wear suits we should look like we're responsible adults like that type of [ __ ] sounds to most people you have to be cognizant of that uh like i i don't know like you just you hear about this this is just like a well-known fact of the world you know like i wonder what these people would feel like if you go into a tattoo parlor if you were to go into a tattoo parlor and you were like hey what's up they're like hey what's up you're like i want a face tattoo any good respectable tattoo parlor in the world will look at you and if you don't have any ink at all they'll say the [ __ ] out of you i'm not doing this this is this is not for you you don't know what the [ __ ] you want they'll send you away because like living with tattoos in your face that's a that's a whole different world than most people realize right because people view you in a certain way and they're going to treat you a certain way whether it's fair or not whether you like it or not like that's just how it goes like the idea that optics don't matter or what you look like doesn't matter like that'd be cool in a fantasy world but it does kind of matter in the real world and when all of your advocates are you know like screeching blue haired uh not whatever they are on youtube whatever like it can make your movement look bad sometimes like it just does i'm sorry if that's if that bothers people but two years ago he's probably grown up and become a big boy now let's see what he's up to one of the biggest common talking points from the right during this era was the left was too afraid to debate and defend their positions nobody on the left wanted debate the left at the time were high and mighty buzzfeed videos feminist like video essay content woke scoldy high and mighty preachy non-funny non-edgy milk toast uh [ __ ] white wah not white wash [ __ ] sugar uh sugar sweet [ __ ] condescending left wing content made by well trans people with with pink hair okay and blue hair which obviously isn't a problem in and of itself but it does kind of make the left you know it makes right gives white right wingers makes them mad oh i feel i feel like i've heard this somewhere before this hyper fixation on optics is indicative of a framework of political thought that views the world through a lens of what the right will think of us and little more and that's what i take issue with basing your politics on practicality is a good thing but when the crux of your argument rests upon dictating the terms of how other people should look and act and silencing minorities no no he said drowning out the loud minority drown out the loud minority sure okay my bad just save that one in the memory bank for later silencing minorities drowning out the loud minority okay dude when optics is the crux of the argument this to me is in some ways indistinguishable from just being an anti-sjw person yourself because it means that your online content overton window always has to include the gamergater perspective and how much leftism can you really be getting done i mean you always have to include the perspective of everybody like that's just how everything politically works there is no future where the only perspective that you're concerned with is with the people that already agree with you right like you constantly have to appear towards like other people this is why token characters are so important right like having like a milo yiannopoulos or a blair white or a um or herman cain or a candace owens or even sometimes a kanye west like these people are really important right because oh well look you know you thought that all republicans were white well look at that we've got a black woman we've got a flamboyant gay man right these these figures are important because they break the mold because they break the what you'd expect people to look at right it's so weird because like on one end we know this because leftists will turn around and argue like hey representation media is important because people like like people that look like them that's just how we identify we'd like people that look like us or act like us or are like us the same uh racial makeup religion we know this but then on the other end they'll turn around like it doesn't matter what all of our people look like people should be able to look past that and go for the ideas like that's it just it's a it's just it's a really like empty hollow dumb argument i don't know and if that's the case all of this makes a lot more sense when we look at where xander hall is getting this whole narrative from in his video he starts off by citing another youtuber whose video's thesis forms the basis of his own and the channel he cites just so happens to be an actual reactionary youtuber whose primary content focus is dunking on e-girls and uh defending leafy oh my god so uh what's going on there this all reminds me of last year when he wouldn't stop saying ableist slurs despite his community's objections to him doing so his reasoning was that gamer language such as this is more effective at bringing people over from the right it only took about 12 debates and seven response videos for him to eventually stop hyperbole strike seven he did stop and that's good but not without it requiring severe pushback from multiple different creators xander hall does hey why is this even a bad why would you even cite this as a bad thing like this is an example of him doing something that like upon further reflection he stopped watch the swatches [ __ ] whenever am i like like if he changes his opinion who cares like what well i don't want to say that i guess not necessarily occasionally like hey that optics aren't everything and that it's okay to be trans or something trans people with with pink hair but i'm more so talking about the attitude not like the the the optics of who's advocating for what right that doesn't matter i don't believe in the idea that like we should relegate certain identities to the to the sidelines because their identities are like uh bad optics i don't believe in that okay optics are important but they're not everything right but that was only after the gamergate tirade spilling out of him condescending trans people so it's stuff like this that makes me wonder about the boundaries of what these communities are able to accomplish and whether or not the high regard debate lords seem to hold themselves in is warranted but you can decide that for yourself see the current state of the valiant white debate lord saviors of the american online left stop it he'll probably complain about being clipped out of context but i mean the full video is there it's it's a full video you can watch the whole thing also if you do go there don't say anything mean please just comment squid gang with six g's but that's all i really needed to say about that guy i want to move on to a more serious example of where i feel that these spaces are causing harm within the online left i think it actually makes the most sense to start this story by briefly going back to xander hall reacting to something that i tweeted this is the one that instantly if anyone says vosh is wrong in the professor flowers debate there's just no saving them okay there's no saving them they're a piece of [ __ ] okay because they're defending genocide there's just that that is the the dichotomy in that debate you're either anti-genocide or pro-woke genocide you're either pro-genocide or anti-genocide and certain people on the left are pro-genocide because it looks woke in a certain way okay so if you have no idea what any of that meant let me get you up to speed the tweet he is referencing is talking about a conflict from a couple of months ago that happened between the large left-leaning streamer vosh and the small leftist video essayist professor flowers my tweet is saying that vosh was in the wrong in that conflict this interaction began when professor flowers made a video critiquing vosh for conflating black nationalism with white nationalism in a prior debate bosch reacted to this video on a stream he disagreed with her characterizations of him professor flowers made a video responding to his disagreements he reacted to that video on his stream and disagreed he then invited her on the stream to discuss which ended up turning into a debate after this she released one final video on it and so did he that's not where this ends but for now that summary should suffice the debate was well a [ __ ] show as both parties have since acknowledged and as we'll get into in a moment but the effects that it had on the online left content space were much more serious and malicious one of these effects as xander hall has so succinctly put it in his video is that it's treated as orthodox thought in debate spaces that anyone who agrees with or defends professor flowers in any capacity is pro-genocide or sympathetic to violent ethnostates that is the dichotomy in that debate you're either anti-genocide or pro-woke genocide now this idea oh my god i can't come straight from the source actually from the overlord of the debate realm himself vosh since this debate nearly six months ago vosh has continued to characterize professor flowers as being an anti-white racist whose ideology inevitably leads to genocide here he is talking about it last week on his stream it's like professor flowers i think that professor flowers is basically just an anti-white racist who stumbled into you're down d colonial united terminology there are always bad people who will mask their ideology through sort of euphemism and adjacent positions how many super far right fashion types gave their positions in the front of like nationalism not like hyper nationalist fascist whatever you know but just like regular americans the [ __ ] out of here gabe you know the [ __ ] i am it's not even like anything sorry guys hold on i just i have to redo this whole section i was not listening hold on i'm so i'm sorry hold on i'm just i'm so sorry august ethnic i'm sure i'll deeper if he's deported our orthodox thought in debate spaces that anyone who agrees with or defends professor flowers in any capacity is pro-genocide or sympathetic to violent ethnostates that is the dichotomy in that debate you're either anti-genocide or pro-woke genocide now this idea comes from somewhere it comes straight from the source actually from the overlord of the debate realm himself vosh since this debate nearly six months ago vosh has continued to characterize professor flowers as being an anti-white racist whose ideology inevitably leads to genocide here he is talking about it last week on his stream it's like professor flowers i think that professor flowers is basically just an anti-white racist who stumbled into a misunderstanding of de-colonial uh terminology there are always bad people who will mask their ideology through sort of euphemism and adjacent positions how many super-far-right fashion types cloak their positions in the front of like nationalism not like hyper nationalist fascist whatever you know but just like regular american nationalism that's like the most common thing in the book you know it's not even like anything pf said was that extreme either it's ethnic cleansing i don't get it there's enough lore and content regarding this interaction to last anyone who's interested until next winter so i'm just gonna give my honest opinion and summarize it in the following way i do not think that anyone that has actually listened to professor flowers videos on this topic can make any of the claims that vosh and his fans continued to make about her calling her an anti-white racist that is pro-genocide or pro-ethnostates is a lie as it was never the content of her arguments it was a narrative crafted by the failings of the format of online debate streaming more on that later we'll come back to this later but more importantly thanks to the means by which this narrative was conceived with fosh arguing against decolonization and separatism using fear of retribution rhetoric it's all well and good to talk about living free of your oppressors but when you break apartheid in south africa there are millions of white people living in that country like what do you do do you just like ship them all out do you build camps i mean there's not really any way to do that without genocide you know it has created a hostile space for black creators wanting to discuss issues like black separatism and black nationalism and this in turn serves to reinforce the racial status quo of left tube which is something having just there are so many black people believe it or not there are so many black people out there that aren't black separatists i would be okay with cutting out all black separatists from like reasonable discussions political [ __ ] there's so many black people out there that are okay living in the same world as white people i don't think we need to pretend that black separatists represent like a significant viewpoint of like the black community just like white separatists probably don't have a good place in in some of these conversation spaces either but something that especially as leftists we should not be wanting to reinforce in his retrospective video on the conflict bosch still fails to meaningfully recognize the distinction between black separatism and white nationalism which was the main criticism of professor flower's original video black separatism is essentially just the black version of white nationalism it's just kind of couched in this like a different type of victim rhetoric the end result tends to lead to ethnic uh sorry uh ethnic supremacy and ethnostates and i think that's ah [ __ ] vashta is using really old talking points that even white supremacists today don't argue about um i could be wrong because i don't cause these people are [ __ ] insane so my understanding might be bad but um my understanding between like blacks like i think what a black supremacist would say is that so much of the western world [ __ ] you gabe i can never hit him so much of the western world is kind of like uh would you say embroiled in or consumed by i guess like white supremacist ideology um that can be anything from obvious things like the criminal justice system to unobvious things like the education system that at some point you have to acknowledge that maybe it's unreasonable to expect black people to try to integrate healthily with a system but rather it's time to leave that system and then have one on your own rather than trying to work so hard to build something within a white supremacist power structure [ __ ] um oh i hit him once um it's better to just create a new black power structure basically um twice oh [ __ ] what is that oh crossbow but you're dead dude sorry um that that would be like the black supremacy not necessarily one of oh it's a yi boy [ __ ] i'm sorry fellow yee hold on gabe how many five five six bullets you gonna waste shooting is that guy gonna try to shoot me after i picked him up he wouldn't do that right [ __ ] i don't know who's safe out here i should just be killing everybody sorry anyway a black separatist is not necessarily the same thing or is not the same thing as a black supremacist black separatism doesn't imply black supremacy or shouldn't jesus okay bad no matter what mind you this is after like half a year of this being explained to him in varying degrees of simplicity that this comparison between these two different things serves to ignore the historical context of these movements and comparing it to nazism is um ignorant to put it lightly gary anything you want to say here or can i just keep going um okay well i guess on the debate side we did find professor flowers guilty of a few crimes okay first off racial essentialization what the [ __ ] is that it's when you call white people colonizers it's a racist dog whistling oh jesus [ __ ] christ this should be disqualifying from the entire left the idea that literally just admitting by colonizer i'm using it as a dog whistle for white okay give me the time stamp where she said it was okay to call white people colonizers what um you don't have it do you not on hand okay well no one does because it doesn't exist but she said white people are colonizers how is this not an endorsement of who colonized the world gary europeans okay and what did europeans look like like you so white right yeah but that doesn't mean it's okay to call white people colonizers that's racist hurts our movement and pushes away potential new leftists gary i already explained this that's not what professor flowers was saying her point was that colonization is an ongoing process and choosing to ignore this fact makes it impossible for us to truly reconcile with its legacy anyone with a baseline understanding of these issues that saw the debate understood that this was the perspective she was coming from and that vosh trying to frame this and somehow being racist against white people was to use an among us term sus why is the context of oppression irrelevant why is the context of who has power irrelevant because and this is and i'll say it once more and this is why you should really check your racism my friend white people and colonizers aren't the same group the people who are white in south africa are regular humans who live their lives they are not colonization is still happening physical america they are yes the concept of colonization is happening you do not then get to attack 6 million ethnic minorities in a country that's what you're doing you're taking a sociological problem oh [ __ ] gosh i uh i don't know how wait is he wait is he calling white people an ethnic minority in south africa um that that's a pretty that's a um that's a pretty big yikesy one so um hold on okay for everybody that's that wants to spam really quickly because you're trying to show off knowledge of demographics or whatever when we talk about like minority or majority we're not talking about population size otherwise we would never say that women are minorities right when you're talking about minority or majority typically you're talking about structures of power in a in a south africa that's been out of apartheid for not even what like three decades to say that like oh well white people are an ethnic minority like it's technically true but in terms of power not really um people say women are minorities uh welcome to the conversation my dude uh you're saved this time from your dumb [ __ ] comment but who says women are minorities wait i can't tell if we're being serious or not why not say marginalized using marginalized if you want i'm just saying that to like to call people like to call white people minorities in south africa is just it conveys a probably a political reality that's not necessarily true in terms of political influence in terms of overall wealth in terms of like history just sounds a little bit strange but and making a race problem which is by the way what conservatives do to black people in this debate bosch employed the argument of the fear of retribution because as members of the gamer zone tend to do he was testing the limits of her moral framework using an extreme hypothetical which is a very normal thing to do it's one of the most normal things you can do actually so you're saying that hypotheticals have no value what are you too stupid to understand how they work the ability to imagine made up scenarios and argue about them is what distinguishes sentient life foreign no i don't have a problem with hypotheticals as a concept i do however have a problem with people being framed as endorsing the extreme outcomes of these hypotheticals it's not even like anything pf said was that extreme either it's ethnic cleansing when they never would have argued for them in the first place have they not been brought to the table by bosch or whichever debate lord they are encountering in multiple conversations since vosh has attributed this escalation and rhetoric to professor flowers escalations like equating land back to genocide here he is talking with indigenous activist morgan khashoggi about landback morgan and vosh are referencing professor flowers in this clip it feels like a very virtue-signally thing sometimes to be very in favor of deep colonization yeah pro land back but then what actually comes to talking about these issues and actually like reconciling like sometimes it can get i think a little bit um well there's there's a clear dissonance so it's not that people are getting it so wrong it's just we need to smooth some wrinkles out so that people don't start using really inflammatory language to describe how we feel about our own problems the weird part is that professor flowers never spoke on these issues on the terms of genocide until she spoke with bosch which should be of no surprise to anyone familiar with debate bros over the course of all these interactions the first time the word genocide is ever used is here at 4 minutes and 45 seconds into their debate and it's not mentioned by professor flowers when you take a look at a lot of black separatist communities there are a lot of underlying reactionary tendencies like homophobia anti-semitism it seems like the fundamental bones are pretty similar and then when you get into the logistics of creating an ethnostate there's not really any way to do that without genocide you know like take south africa right i mean it's all well and good to talk about living free of your oppressors but when you break apartheid in south africa there are millions of white people living in that country like what do you do do you just like ship them all out do you build camps i mean it seems like this logic always leads down a really bad road isolate that last quote it seems like this logic always leads down a really bad road that conception right there that limit testing ideology is precisely what causes the inflammatory language to start being used in these conversations the same language that the actual land-backed activists said was causing so many problems using really inflammatory language to describe how we feel about our own problems there's not really any way to do that without genocide you know discussing ideas in this manner by pulling them to the extremes in a combative context is especially damaging with topics like black separatism a topic that the white online left has repeatedly demonstrated having very little knowledge about and thanks to vosh and others very little willingness to inquire further boss just says they're nazis in reverse and everyone's like okay cool black separatism is essentially just the black version of white nationalism all of this has been explained ad nauseam in these videos but the youtuber carr he has a great channel by the way go check him out he explains why this is ignorant as clearly as i've seen anyone do in this clip from professor flowers last video let's see if people will get it this time 147th times the charm i'd like to set the record straight on black separatism because a lot of people seem to get it wrong in online spaces the best way i think to visualize it for anyone listening separatism is basically self-determination and creating as much space away from your oppressors as possible allowing you to act upon that self-determination if that creating space for oppressors requires violence then it requires violence it doesn't have to though you talk about rosewood tulsa you talk about move in philadelphia move was a black separatist movement and the cops bombed it and they killed eight children and they burnt down a block of town homes so this organization did not was not responsible for anyone being hurt in their town whatsoever they literally just wanted to do what they saw mind you white people doing throughout the country building compounds and building their own internal insular support networks and dual power structures that's ultimately what separatism is about is creating that space between the oppressors and the oppressed or plundered people so that they can act upon that self-determination it's never been about ethnic cleansing it's been about creating a safe distance it's ethnic cleansing i don't get it we saw the same problem with hypotheticals arise in bosch's recent debate with youtuber non-compete where he opposed this hypothetical regarding jews being overrepresented in banking during the weimar republic whenever people have been enslaved if they rise up and use violence to liberate themselves then that is probably acceptable because they had material conditions in which they like the nazis rising up against the nazis was acceptable yes no no after world war one the nazis claimed that jewish bankers were holding the country down and that was false consciousness because that wasn't actually happening how can you do that was false their their ideology was not aligned with reality how can you tell because jews don't actually control banks in the world there was a disproportionate number of jewish control of banks in germany during the weimar republic all right gosh we're done here thank you good bye this is uh that's all i need to hear you don't have an ethical oh my god i'd run two if i was him in case anyone's curious about what's happening there that guy was actually too stupid to have a conversation with oh jesus christ why did i ever watch this stuff in response to non-compete's claim that no the jews did not control the banks jews don't actually control banks in the world vosh responds with actually yes they did there was a disproportionate number of jewish control of banks in germany during the weimar republic all right we're done here he doubles down on this claim in a follow-up video days later by arguing that this is a statistically accurate reading of history the critical thing here is that for me saying that there was a disproportionate amount of jewish control of the banks in the weimar republic a bunch of people online are calling me a nazi like everywhere it's like a whole meme thing and the weird thing is as i understood when going into the debate and then have such looked into and have found that yes this is the case there was the reason non-compete hung up here wasn't because his ethical system had been exposed or whatever these guys are always talking about you don't have an ethical oh my god but because even engaging with this claim that jews controlled the banks at any level of historical specificity cedes the entire argument to the fascists whether they did or not should be irrelevant the real well then wait but then you argue that you don't have to see that dude if you come out of the non-compete vosh arguments thinking that non-compete looked good there i think you probably are you're really you need to check your political bias or something um i don't know that just seems a little bit crazy to me but um i mean like i mean you're about to contend with it now i imagine right and i but the thing is is that like even vosh would agree with this like they act like it's some big own like oh well vosh like they would say like vosh do you think that just because the jewish people might have had uh you know more representation and high financial positions means that the holocaust was justified now i'm not vosh but i feel like vosh would probably say well no of course not but maybe he would maybe vosh would say the holocaust should about who knows but no oh i'm [ __ ] dead he's got a tommy [ __ ] i'm so good oh [ __ ] hold on i'm so sorry oh [ __ ] me dude i didn't get any of the bullets god damn it i dumpster that dude though real question is why would this matter i'm dropping a quick tactical zijk nuke here because it's relevant regarding the topic of debates with racists and fascists why is this false because the nazis here even if it were to be true but it wasn't of course they lied in the guise of truth because the true question is not is it true what they are claiming about the jews the true question is why in order to sustain their politics they need this fantasy of the truth why they need this fantastic figure of the jew and incidentally it's the same i think even today with iraq here i got here i think that many fake leftists fell into the trap of accepting the terms of the debate the true question is not is it true what they claim about saddam the true question is a totally different one is what kind of new logic of hegemony new world that is established in this way and so on and so on even to accept these terms and then to argue you put yourself into a totally idiotic position you know when there you have to argue oh but it's not so bad some people nonetheless supported saddam that's not our debate my god no i don't think bosh is an anti-semite but i wouldn't be terribly upset at anyone who got this impression after seeing vosh uncritically repeat this false nazi talking point and [Laughter] what do you i have to go back and listen i i can't understand what zeus says i actually get triggered listening to him call me ableist i i super don't it's really really hard to understand what he's saying sorry or maybe i just can't hear well why is this false because the nazis here even if it were to be true but it wasn't of course they lied in the guise of truth because the true question is not is it true what they are claiming about the jews the true question is why in order to sustain their politics they need this fantasy of the truth why they need this fantastic figure of the jew and incidentally it's the same i think even today with iraq here i got here i think that many fake leftists fell into the trap of accepting the terms of the debate the true question is not is it true what they claim about saddam the true question is a totally different one is what kind of new logic of hegemony new world order is established in this way and so on and so on even to accept these terms and then to argue you put yourself into a totally idiotic position you know when there you have to argue oh but it's not so bad some people nonetheless supported saddam that's not our debate my god no i don't think bosh is an anti-semite but i don't know how terribly upset with anyone who got this impression after seeing vash uncritically nazi talking point and then double down on it or if they'd encountered the legions of vosh fans spending hours online after the debate arguing that yes actually the jews did control the banks before the holocaust because my favorite streamer said so it's these sorts of nonsense magic fairy tale wonderland hypotheticals that have no use outside of the performative debate context that end up leaving a lasting impression on the internet these little vosh freaks flocked to non-compete to call him technically pro-nazi when their streamer was the one spreading nazi misinformation part of my issue with debate streams is that misinformation okay wait let's just look this up why because i had always heard this to be true a lot is this not was is this just not true were jewish people not overrepresented in like banking and financial sectors in germany the socio-economic background of nazi anti-semitism i can't read this it's a jstor thing i brought this up enough on stream that like and nobody is contested at this point so i feel like it was probably true season's point was it even if they were overrepresented it doesn't matter then i just use that stat ruler not to justify murdering millions of them yeah but like this is kind of my problem with leftists in general is it seems like they don't want to fight on any descriptive ground whatsoever they just want to like say it's not real and then move on like you have but i feel like if you're not willing to acknowledge the descriptive ground like why are people so this is why are people so afraid of acknowledging some descriptive reality and then arguing from there like you can just say yeah like jewish people were disproportionately wealthy and maybe even working in the financial sector in nazi germany that doesn't mean we have to [ __ ] kill them that doesn't justify the holocaust right like just accept the descriptive ground and then move from there in your arguments this idea you have to run from it or like zizek said any time it said that jewish people are rich well now you've already lost the argument like no just you're gonna you can accept that you can even accept the framing it's kind of like saying like did this black person resist the police officers like it's well that's not relevant it can be relevant you're going to say like yeah they did but just because you're resisting blues doesn't necessarily mean you have to die right you can accept the descriptive ground and you can move on to um and then you can move on to arguing prescription afterwards you don't have to do this every time i hear um every time i hear people say things like oh these crazy hypotheticals blah blah blah um like just either work within the hypothetical or say why the hypothetical's wrong and then you know move on to the next thing like i don't feel like it's that hard but information like this is so easy to spread yet so difficult to correct it's why this video has to be two [ __ ] hours long and take weeks of work to make they stream for eight hours a day and say [ __ ] like this completely ignoring the real world complexities of these issues and reducing them to fun little rhetorical games to be used for dunking on other youtubers that guy was actually too stupid to have a conversation with then all their fans start spreading this [ __ ] around the internet uncritically and wonder why people call them nazis a bunch of people online are calling me a nazi there was a disproportionate number of jewish control of banks in germany during the viamy republic this is really weird to me i've seen an accusation thrown around the internet that bosch is a pedialyte drinker because of a number of older clips from his stream where he brings up things like chimichangas pedialyte not unlike the examples we just looked at now gary i need you man hey hey hey so straight up these clips are weird as [ __ ] so [ __ ] weird weird and wrong as arguments i'm not gonna play them because i am hanging on to a single shred of hope that this video will still be able to get monetized it probably won't though but uh gary well despite noah's objections to these clips and their apparent sussiness there isn't anything in them that would merit the claim that bosh is a pedialyte drinker that is a very serious accusation to be making and to make it without solid proof is dangerous and we should not normalize doing that thanks man okay so at some point in time bosch stopped using these extreme examples involving children in hypotheticals probably because using them only encouraged people to make these spurious but not out of nowhere accusations against him so if he understands that handling these sensitive topics carelessly can have negative consequences and has adjusted his behavior accordingly in the past when they've affected him why can't he do the same for others as we've seen the effects are real professor flowers is the target of a harassment campaign spurred on by bosch with his use of this hypothetical about the fear of retribution non-compete was accused of technically defending nazism because vosh through his little rhetorical game justified this treatment in their eyes he is either choosing to ignore these facts or just doesn't care and both of these should be unacceptable there's a great thread from a streamer called ask vera that runs through the standard procedure of interactions with debate streamers and how they are a recurring problem number four is especially relevant here reactionary debaters smuggle assumptions into hypotheticals hoping you get distracted with the hypothetical rather than challenge the assumption this is precisely what happened to professor flower why okay this is then this is so boring this guy would never talk to me if you can't engage with a hypothetical then either study up i guess or like we practice working within other frameworks or like extracting these like general of generalized forms of ideas or arguments like i i work with i practice it any like anybody can do it they're not out of reach for most people right assuming you don't have some type of mental disability or brain injury or whatever most people can understand hypothetical um understand them and then um or or or because yeah hypotheticals and [ __ ] can get tricky especially in the middle any debate can be tricky just saying like oh like i don't do debates like it's just not i'm not it's not my forte it's fine to say that too you can just say like oh like i just do video essays that's fine as well this thing where it's like well he used to have dangle it's not fair he's smuggling a bad assumption that's part of a hypothetical if somebody smuggles in an assumption or if somebody makes an assumption that you think is not fair in a hypothetical for instance let's say um yesterday a mom was driving and her car got hit by a drunk driver um and you know i think that was um you know i think that was mom's fault and it's like wait why the [ __ ] was a mom's fault of a drunk driver hit her well if mom was out drinking and driving and she got into an accident you said that's her fault right and it's like yeah but that's not the same thing right you're smuggling an assumption that drunk driving and being hit by a drunk driver are comparable when they're they're not analogous because one shows a personal failing of the mother to do something she was being immoral by drinking and driving the other shows the fault of another agent right they're two different things dis analogous you can you can argue against a hypothetical you don't have to automatically assume that i have that was correct like that's part of a discussion bars regarding the topic of genocide and this distraction has forced her onto her back foot ever since here she is talking about it in her final video on the topic so there are a lot of people who are saying that i'm genocidal and i just want to clear up what i mean what i mean to say is that there is no amount of violence that colonized people can enact towards their colonizers that will ever compare to what colonizers have done to them that compares to the millions of kidnapped enslaved people to the thousands of years of history and way of life that has been wiped out to the languages that have been lost to the entire caste system that has been created to the relocation and murder of millions to the subjugation of entire nations into the subjugation and profit of stolen land she is right do i need to explain okay hold on i haven't watched the professor flowers debate so i'm like indifferent or ambiguous i like i don't have i don't have a strong opinion that kind of sounded like a justification for uh genocide though if i'm being totally honest i um i kind of got that vibe from that but uh okay into the subjugation and profit of stolen land she is right do i need to explain that further hopefully not because i'm not gonna it's not my job to educate you but i want you to watch how vosh reacts to this clip on his stream there is no amount of violence that colonized people can enact towards their colonizers that will ever compare to what colonizers have done to them that compares what is it's such a bad framing too the idea that so what like are all people that descend from colonizers also colonizers and are all people that descend from the colonized the colonized the victims can the colonized really do no amount of damage is there like some cumulative effect of damage done on people where there's like a scorecard like if black people were to wholesale start murdering white people we'll say in an american example could we be like well you know we still haven't even you know got to half your points if you consider the 200 years of slavery and blah blah blah like is that really the the or i don't know what the year of the slave trade started in urban show but like is that really like the argument we're going to go with there that seems like uh it seems a little bit uh sassy bacca first of all that's not what she meant because that's a totally different concept is that even like relevant what does that have to do with what we're talking about history and way of life that has been wiped out to languages that have been lost also doesn't this kind of support my argument this seems very strange to me because it feels like the implicit suggestion is that the violence that colonized people do is okay because it could never it could never be enough you know what i mean so professor flowers says these things cannot be compared and attempting to do so downplays this very real history of oppression again an objectively true statement and to this that's such a weird horrible way of framing violence that just is actually so bizarre like i can't imagine in what context i would ever wheel out that argument to justify or even talk about some action i would be so curious like let's say a black man rapes a white woman like well does that even compare to the amount of white rape of black slaves in the time of slavery does that make that kind of like maybe not okay but it's still not as bad as what happened historically like that's just such a weird comparison i don't even know where you would wheel i don't know what you would bring that out at in a discussion josh responds you claim to not want to do white genocide yet you cite historical oppression which could be used to justify white genocide huh curious very curious indeed checkmate no it's not that vash was citing historical oppression because it wasn't the problem that you were citing historical oppression the idea was that you were citing historical oppression and saying no amount of modern day violence could ever compare to it that's a way different and more extremely sussy claim to make that's a way different type of thing to say this is racist right am i allowed to say that yet i think what you mean to say is that while this individual act may not be racist the way this flow of information has been set up has led to a racist outcome that outcome being professor flowers discussing historical oppressions here is seen as a potential justification for retributive violence which was never her point and not how these claims should be viewed especially from anyone claiming to be on the left yeah so it's racist okay thanks to their debate which in effect served to legitimize this fear of retribution rhetoric a white supremacist narrative is being repeated all over the place making it so that topics requiring nuanced discussion like black separatism and black nationalism are framed as being not only inherently violent but equivalent to nazism if we take a quick peek at some of the chats from that stream it's quite interesting mom said it's time for me to be the colonizer it's a pro-genocide argument basically saying that the image of white people in chains while mlk smiles in the sky is based that is her saying that a white genocide is justified so that means reverse genocide good leftism it's good leftism we love it thousands of years of history and way of life that has been wiped out to the languages that have been lost to the entire caste system that has been created our resident critical race theory scholar zander hall elaborates here i'm gonna say this right now i'm gonna call it out when people say woke genocide to refer to like the the black separatist stuff it's kind of racist i'm going to be honest here because it's not woke all you're doing is putting woke before something that has to do with brown people because it has to do with brown people it's not woke there's nothing about what professor flowers or or black hammer or any of these people advocate for that is woke being woke is advocating for integration and cooperation okay a multicultural multi-ethnic multi-racial movement to fight against the systems of oppression this country that puts certain groups of people down right that is woke segregation even if it's well we we're black people and we woke doesn't mean what nothing ah this is so boring how long is this talk with bosh i don't know if i can listen to this guy go on for a whole debate well nothing that sanders described as colorblind that's not what he's getting at want segregation that is not woke just because brown people are doing it doesn't make it woke oh that's just great stuff we love it leftism is when reverse racism is the scariest thing you can think of mom can you pick me up please they're not being colorblind there's a good clip from the youtuber bad empanada that explains how ridiculous it is to try to make this comparison let's imagine a different world where white people did all the same thing and the black this guy is one of like the few like he should probably be banned from everything like i think this guy makes like real life death threats and [ __ ] um he's like unbelievably [ __ ] unhinged uh he's like almost everything he talks about he says like the most dog [ __ ] but he's like actually this is actually like an unhinged [ __ ] he's crazy like this guy should be like in jail he's done like some insanely deranged [ __ ] on the internet jesus he docks basket his name and addre this guy's just done like ins i haven't heard that but this guy's done like some insane [ __ ] um he's just wild people were more radical and they were like you know we we want you guys to get the [ __ ] out of here you know when we're not just going to forgive you for centuries and centuries of oppression for enforcing apartheid upon us for a hundred years we want you gone he died the same thing hasn't he had multiple twitter accounts banned because he's like because he makes death threats to people on them i should have like a folder of this okay oh hold on nazism no not even [ __ ] close man truly unbelievable and do i think that would be ideal solution also no is that what i would want also no can i understand it absolutely yes did you really just cite bad empanada in your video looks like you've lost me that guy is a bad person everybody knows that me citing a clip of bad empanadas saying something that's objectively true is not an endorsement of everything that he has done on the internet wait but couldn't you also say that citing a talking point from nazis that might have been true isn't necessarily endorsing nazism but then earlier you literally say it wouldn't surprise me i wouldn't blame people for calling vash a nazi because vosh has said things that nazis also say why does it work sometimes but not other times like okay please stop being a [ __ ] baby just look at the meme okay from my perspective bosh seems to be defensive about these ideas because he is operating on some underlying assumptions about who professor flowers is assumptions that were created when they had their debate there's an extremely relevant video that i'd like to plug here debate me how to know things on youtube from scottish neoliberalism understander john the duncan there's a difference between being away from and you forcibly expelling people if that makes sense but that but that's just we're not talking about the the black kenyans didn't open leave they kicked that or in her words they got rid of white people yeah and that's good i mean like that's they got rid of the white of white people who were there who were the settler colonialists i don't like okay dude look i'm i like you i i really do and i don't want to fall out with you but what you were expressing there is some really yikesy [ __ ] man it's good that they got rid of white people yeah i mean like obviously what is being referred to in this context as settler colonials right right but not all white people in kenya were like in running the department of kill all black people sorry john just have to send them your way but uh the debate bro deprogramming industrial complex has to start somewhere and your two videos will be our foundational texts but this one addresses many core issues of online debate culture one of them being how knowledge is created in these spaces and how this knowledge gathered through the active debate is often held supreme above all other forms and how this is maybe not the best thing for the left i think the issue with this proliferation of debate is that it further embedded the idea that debate is a legitimate way of finding out whether something is correct and true that's another example of youtube structures influencing how knowledge is produced the platform encourages certain types of content which then impacts how both viewers and other content creators view knowledge creation and this might not be an issue if debates related at all to any sort of truth the problem is that doesn't so vash's defensiveness or inability to sort of stop being a silly guy is a byproduct of this overvaluing of what debate actually is from bosch's perspective professor flowers is who she showed herself i mean like debate can be a way to find truth or it can be a way to dick wave but it's the same thing with video essays as well like anything could technically be used to discover truthful things anything could be used to just dick wave and scream at people right like to be in that debate and this above all other things is the information upon which we should base all of our subsequent attitudes and treatment towards her well to be fair noah he is a debate streamer that's his medium that is how he gathers his information by talking to people how else is he supposed to know what they're all about um that's kind of the issue gary the hypothetical answer to this question is that he can actually watch their videos you can listen to what they're saying when they've put a lot of effort into researching and presenting their arguments but this form of listening is antithetical to his content format in order to retain his position as standing rhetorical genius supreme noah bad faith bad fate okay in order to keep his stream moving and entertaining he often skips around looking for arguments that he can try to respond to in these videos or pauses before the points have been fully argued he actually did the former with fd signifiers break bread which is disappointing because there was a lot of particularly relevant information in that video the scary reality is that the very homogeneous nature of their fan bases where's my face are fresh out of radical hate-filled movements and for now they're yeah i don't know nah i don't yeah i'm not again like this is too generous but the idea that anyone who does debates are like oh it's just sophistry and like they're not as smart as the video esses and they're just like you know they just do rhetoric but they don't really have any real like this like yeah no i don't know he acknowledges later in that clip that he isn't giving the video a fair shot and says to go watch it which is good i'm jumping in on this bit at the end interpreting every statement as though it applies to me and responding defensively to it so this is not like a fair representation of the video as a whole i'd encourage you all to look at the whole video yourselves but still this format presents a clear dilemma to our ability to exchange information this is documented in professor flowers videos where she shows the way vosh doesn't ever actually engage with her arguments in an honest manner now for the rest of the stream vaj skips over the segment where i talk about nationalism in the context of colonized people and enslaved people versus white nationalism he also skips the part where i talk about black separatism black supremacy and even racism it's an important part to skip and unfortunately vosh doesn't realize that this addresses many of his accusations again those are all linked below more homework to get through before the next time i post which at this rate will probably be in like july so you got plenty of time don't procrastinate make sure you turn in your fafsa as well don't want to miss out on that big old bag of cash so if we are choosing to ignore all of that and just rely on debate streams for our information you can probably see the problem this creates right no matter how many times professor flowers says that genocide is not and was never something that she nor any land back or decolonization activists were talking about in vosh and his audience's mind she will always be the person in this clip what do you think of the six million white people who live in that country do you think the black people who are by far the majority have a right to remove the white population i think that they would have a right to do that but i think that would be really harsh and i think that they're not even going to do that out of curiosity do you know how many jews died in the holocaust it's so funny to watch these gotcha moments happen when he gets people caught in these little traps you can see the excitement on his face it's like when the shark from nemo first smells blood i think that they would have a right i mean like can't you you can still navigate these arguments even if you have to own some bad like or some rough sounding conclusions like she could still she could literally say like well i think morally they'd be justified from it but like maybe politically it would be unjustifiable or maybe like there are still like ways you can move through these arguments i feel like i've done similar things to talking about like violence against um conservatives or certain political people are trying to remove you or your family from the country like there are there are still ways to move through these arguments by just like oh i can't do it it's too much or whatever right to do that but i think that would be really harsh and i think that they're not even going to do that do you know how many jews died in the holocaust so to them she will always be the person that stumbled over the oh so simple question of genocide you're gonna say but really you're gonna say the b word after i just said the g word oh so you want to kill white people then okay i can't believe this this is so messed up i'm literally being murdered right now the problem with these exchanges lacking any sort of nuance was explained perfectly here by the indigenous activist morgan khashoggi in her conversation with bosh in this clip she is referencing one of the follow-up conversations turned debates that professor flowers had with another streamer one of the ways that i saw that was when dr heamdow had said well you know i'm an immigrant and i believe that everybody has a right to live where they live which is an idea that i agree with so he says well why can't i just live where i live and professor flowers says well because you're living on stolen land and that land is still stolen and that's also true both of these opinions are valid opinions to have but neither of them fully encapsulate the nuance of what it is to be an indigenous person repping the land back movement okay fantastic great point morgan pitting two perspectives against one another in order to find a victor is probably bad if we want to learn anything about these multifaceted issues i wonder why people are doing that you do not then get to attack six million ethnic minorities in a country that's what you're doing me when someone tells me that my entire online presence creates an irredeemable intellectual vacuum okay fantastic hassan had some relevant words on the shortcomings of knowledge acquired through debate my main goal isn't to [ __ ] thrive on being the big brand intellectual titan because when you do that that just means they are still responding simply to power you're not actually creating or crafting an argument or showing people a different world view you're just simply the big bad uh gladiator the intellectual gladiator and as long as you continue being that guy they will [ __ ] give you money and give you praise because they think you're the smartest guy in the room because that's the only way they can understand who is smart or not i apologize for most of this video being me playing clips of other people making my points for me but i'm not gonna lie i'm not that smart noah samson's a [ __ ] idiot i'm good at making youtube videos and talking about other youtubers but that's about it please don't copyright claiming you're being paid in exposure you're welcome hassan but this is what people mean when they talk about how debate streams are all about winning and domination vosh beat professor flowers in this debate he won he proved to the cheering colosseum crowd that she is the bad dumb lady and he is the good smart guy that's how it will exist in his mind and the minds of his audience of hundreds of thousands of people until well forever it seems like far smarter people than me have tried to explain why this [ __ ] is ridiculous and reinforces white supremacy online but none have prevailed the debate zone might just be an impenetrable bubble of stupidity thank you the debate zone is definitely not right but especially unfunny level of stupidity is that sarcasm no all right carry on i've seen that vosh is capable of having fruitful conversations with other leftists in the past one great example is his talk with youtuber and anarchist history phd haver zoe baker in late 2020 despite their ideological differences they shared both of their perspectives on political strategy in a non-combative manner and were able to move forward with a better understanding of each other's views but when it comes to talking with other leftists about issues he lacks perspective on it mostly goes like this what an [ __ ] or like this are you listening to a word that i'm saying or this that guy was actually too stupid to have a conversation with or this i'm starting to wonder if you're educated enough to have this conversation in before you say i'm clip chimping copin seeds liberals no i'm just kidding i don't say [ __ ] like that in real life all of those full conversations are linked below go watch them and see if you can identify where and why they went wrong ten ten ten ten here is a clip of vosh talking about how he views these types of conversations that i think is very telling i'm gonna put it this way okay i've talked to a decent number of lefty video essayists who disagree with me and not one of them has come out looking good you guys understand that right like the the times we've talked with with the video sas when they come to disagree like this this is not like uh like i'm i'm blinded by their intellect when they come over here this is very like a very aesthetic obsession the idea that like oh video essayists are smart because they have scripts once again he is implicitly reinforcing the idea that the gamers marketplace of ideas is some supreme form of knowledge creation and anyone who can't hang with his rhetoric must be too stupid to have a conversation with he follows that up by saying this you know what what i do is an easy i don't have a script and i never think about anything that i do it's all just off the cuff okay i don't have any brain at all this is just reflex i'm not even thinking about what i say okay so he's joking here and i really do appreciate josh's sense of humor but where's the lie though like i'm not saying he has no brain i'm saying it would be awesome if he took this i'm just a dumb streamer no thoughts had empty approach and actually operated as if he understood that so in a word humility but it's so strange how he can acknowledge this here in a joke i don't have any brain at all while simultaneously citing his rhetoric as being the peak of online intellectualism not one of them has come out looking good being open to where your gaps in knowledge are makes things better for everyone involved in interactions but most of the time he does the exact opposite of that and it can be hard to watch i'm starting to wonder if you're educated enough to have this conversation and so because sometimes you're going to play the same thing exists as a character in the debate bro canon the crazy black separatist lady that hates white people and loves genocide and any and all subsequent harassment and content made at her expense is therefore totally justified under the pretense that well we saw her true colors in that debate so she deserves it bad bad bad very bad very bad bad whenever vosh hears people describe what he does as enabling harassment he responds with this you know there's a whole uh narrative about my community harassing people but in spite of nearly three years of trying to track down the people actually doing this i've yet to be provided a single piece of evidence of it actually happening usually the initial claim is some very severe you know uh avash community you know harassing like really bad stuff right but then i get some screenshots and it's usually people just being kind of mean which i'm fine with i have a problem with people being mean to people i don't like okay um if you deliberately mischaracterize someone as being in favor of ethnostates and genocide it's ethnic cleansing to your massive audience how on earth does this not enable harassment like he's convinced hundreds of thousands of people wait that's not even what vasha's claim is though bosh doesn't care if people are just like mean to each other on the internet right but like they're talking about probably like racial harassment or like actual like doxxing like real [ __ ] not not people just saying like mean things about like how you're whatever on the internet that's my guess right but i don't think vajra was like oh my my audience never calls people like nazis or whatever it's as if he's deliberately trying to miss the point of why what he does is a problem the response here is especially bizarre if we watch how non-compete brought this issue to his attention right before that last clip of vash's denial what i've noticed and a lot of people have noticed is a pattern where whenever you talk about somebody who is shall we say marginalized you know black or trans or person of color that there's a tendency for those people to receive a lot of kind of like after effect collateral damage in terms of harassment threats uh and and other kinds of like you know disturbing attacks like that now i've seen it happen with luna because i'm married to her we spend all of her time together i monitor i help her administrate her comments and that sort of thing and i also know that have shown me similar results you know so i just i guess my first question is are you aware of that or or would you deny that that's something that happens i think i'd mostly deny it non-compete is being pretty reasonable here right just trying to draw attention to a problem that he's seen firsthand that's actively harming marginalized people that's directly correlated with vasha's actions well hold on him being reasonable is contingent upon his claim being correct which is what they're disagreeing on that doesn't really make any sense to say well he's being reasonable here well this is they disagree on the fact of the matter bosh is just like nope nope not me not my problem none of this is my responsibility am i overstepping by saying that this is bad bad bad bad very bad very bad bad related to the issue of the nature of harassment from these spaces is their crusade against identity politics on multiple occasions the first thing that comes to wash's mind as potential motivation for people wanting to defend professor flowers is that they are doing so because she's black or caving to identity politics there are a bunch of directions you can go in this i do think a lot of people on the left are just castrated whities or whatever who just refuse to disagree with women of color i can only see this same pattern so many times but like some woman comes out with some insane [ __ ] and people oh geez this is what xander hall references when he calls supporting professor flowers wanting to look woke we're black people and we want segregation that is not woke amazing stuff that we're dealing with here it's just really strange to me that this is the first and seemingly only reason that they could think of as to why people would want to side with her and not that maybe in her videos she made good points that were well researched and provided more information on these topics than anything that could have ever come from that nightmare of a debate points that had they actually listened to would have answered all their stupid [ __ ] questions perfectly valid inquiries okay but i guess actually listening to her would mean no more content for them so never mind hey i mean their content is heavily reliant on drama and miscommunications can feed into drama so listening and understanding are both actively discouraged in this online debate space and that's something which we should try to change better by putting all debate streamers in prison god damn it that's satire by the way um abolish the prison industrial complex except keep it open for debate streamers only oh my god like okay sure i could see some people jumping to the conclusion that vosh was in the wrong without really engaging with the content of the debate they click on the video see this shouty white devil's advocate style individual and a black lady and click off to write a mean tweet about how vosh bad that probably does happen i'm sure sometimes even because of internalized racism or whatever but that explanation can only go so far again i'm thinking using debate bro brain here but in the same way that vosh is waiting on proof of his fans harassment i have yet to see substantial evidence that the people siding with professor flowers are doing so just because she's black if it's there someone please show it to me okay finding proof for either those claims gonna be way different right like that's it's impossible to prove why somebody supports somebody but if vash's fans are harassing people in like racially mean or like sexist ways you should be able to provide proof of that right quantify your claims that's you guys whole thing right until that happens though it seems like a huge leap in logic to be making especially given the content of her responses and it strikes me as at least ostensibly quite racist especially when thanks to bosh this whole anti-identity politics crusade is being waged by leftists all across the internet in places where it has no right to be for example on january 9th i tweeted this screenshot of one of vash's youtube videos where he reviews an introductory lesson on dialectical materialism from vietnamese communist youtuber luna oy his video is titled this is the stupidest tanky video i have ever seen brain damage suffered the point of my tweet was to say that this title was unnecessarily inflammatory especially given the content of the video which is a point that i stand by but take a moment to look at this reply to my tweet is there an actual problem here or are we just gallantly coming to the rescue of the helpless and vulnerable female poc like yep that's the only reason it couldn't possibly be because he called a benign theory video brain damage inducing you are so smart i must be one of those uh circumcised whites or whatever vosh called them castrated whities here's another exchange from this week avash fan tweets professor flowers advocated for allowing genocide on colonizers someone replies no she didn't because she didn't this person then responds with any time any person of color says anything remotely disagreeable we're supposed to shut up nope nope no one is saying that literally no one is saying that you were just saying that out of nowhere and it feels kind of racist man i'm not gonna lie in these people's minds whenever someone defends a person of color that disagrees with bosh they're obviously only doing it because they want to look woke or score points with those twitter tankies or doing self-loathing crimes or whatever because why else would they disagree with bosh the possibility that he can be wrong doesn't seem to cross their minds you can see this response in his chat anytime anyone mentions that someone is of racialized or marginalized status inpull inpul info impul info bosh and his orbiters have made it a part of the brand to value argument over identity and while that concept on its face isn't a bad thing it is clearly grown into a problem where the automatic tendency of his viewers is to write off the perspectives of marginalized communities not in spite of their race but because of it so my call to action in this section is please deprogram whatever it is in your brain that makes you say [ __ ] like this before even reading what anyone is saying thanks also stop watching debate streams okay thanks bye so i've said most of what i feel like i've needed to say but i want to take a moment to look at something i found that was interesting to me at the end of bosh's stream segment in this clip bosch is frustrated by the online left's apparent failings in who they choose to support it's a long clip so that's it's just a long clip that's it's just a long clip the thing that really weirds me out and like i hope i hope this doesn't get misinterpreted but like i follow a lot of small lefty youtubers and streamers like i try to pay attention to like smaller communities so that i don't get too in my head and there are so many awesome like poc creators who get like no attention you know and then it feels like the ones that the online left always jumps to to support are the worst ones you know it's really weird like i very rarely see like these big like like jumps to the to the support of like the really cool the cool ones not even people in my orbit or whatever just generally cool creators like how many times has this happened uh mel luna professor flowers stuff like that it just it feels like whenever the jump happens i don't know how much of this is like performative self-hatred or what the three people that vosh mentions the online left wrongfully jumping to defend are professor flowers luna oy and chaos ismael there's a common factor between the three of them that i don't believe he recognized here it's not just that the three of them are small poc creators and online figures it's that all of their most visible online moments have been fights with vosh they've debated him or critiqued him in videos on twitter or live on stream they have challenged his standing in the space in one way or another and whether or not you personally agree with their positions or ideas leftists jumping to defend them shirley can't all be doing so because they want to look woke right like go watch any of these videos and come back and tell me if you don't find any issues with the way he conducts himself online interactions are complicated yes and vosh can't be blamed for everything that goes wrong with them but it's just dishonest to act like there's no pattern here and so you might notice that based on how he has framed this phenomenon with luna mel and professor flowers being the online left's non-white false prophets something else is implied in the same way that they are all connected by having challenged vosh the small poc creators are connected by not doing that i don't mean to suggest that this is intentional that they're playing nice for a host or a raid or whatever but this still begs the question if any of them were to end up fighting with vosh on the big stage as professor flowers luna oy and mel did and have it go the way these interactions went would he still hold them in the same regard if the online left jumped to defend them would it be another case of the idol twitter lefties conspiring against him would they then become the worst ones the worst ones the irony here is that when someone in the chat asks him for the actual names of the smaller underappreciated poc creators he's talking about this is how he responds wanna name some of the cool ones you're thinking of i should do a list i'll do a list i'll do a list sometime i could pull that together i need to find a way to access my old like twitch stuff though because my twitch account got deleted you know um so he doesn't mention them for the rest of that video this isn't meant to be a gotcha this is firstly to say bosh if you're watching this right now on stream have you made the list yet if not you now have my permission to pause and do that and then share it with your stream and refill your nuggies and pay me some money seriously cash i need cash gimme gimme gimme gimme but more importantly i feel like this is another more subtle example of the way white supremacy operates online vosh says that he enjoys all these poc creators work as a counterpoint to dunk on the people that disagree with him but when it comes time to actually do the thing that would help them the most he fails this might seem like a trivial thing and perhaps he has mentioned them on a stream before i don't know i can't watch every minute of every one but they aren't mentioned here when there's a perfect opportunity to do so and i don't think it's reading too far into it to say that this might say something about his understanding of the space if you truly recognize how much more difficult it is to make it as a content creator when you're not white from the racially biased algorithm to the majority white audience demographics to the material conditions necessary to enable you to even attempt creating content in the first place then you should be taking every opportunity to fight against these forces especially when you get an easy alley-oop like that from your chat this sort of built-in racial gatekeeping of left tube by bosch and others is something that i don't think gets talked about enough they have deemed this their movement and in order to be a part of it you have to play by their rules if you don't you're gonna end up fighting a tidal wave of debate bros in your twitter mentions and comment sections for the entirety of your potentially short-lived career this is not good or healthy or inclusive speaking of which at the beginning when xander hall responds to that comment about black creators he also doesn't actually even read that list he saw the name of a black creator he doesn't like and then started foaming at the [ __ ] mouth i'm so glad you brought this up just leftist things the names on that list were khadija umbeau fd signifier shan speer foreign man in a foreign land yara zaid and t noir you're probably already subscribed to most of the people on that list seeing as they're like three times my size but i do want to give a special shout out to foreign he's genuinely one of the funniest people on here uh and if you're not subbed to him well you're missing out get this man to 100k thousand or i will go sicko mode and no i will not elaborate on what i mean by that

Channel: Destiny

Views: 297,709

Keywords: steven bonnell, destiny, destiny streamer, destiny debates, destiny twitch, destiny vods, politics, news, livestreamfail, lsf

Id: JZw90zj3xNE

Length: 97min 57sec (5877 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 11 2022