Addressing Vaush's Allegations | Twitch Ban Manifesto

[Music] the world is in a greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it good friend of the stream albert einstein referencing an interview he was summarizing of pablo casals at tube root we've already gone over the insertion ian kaczynski currently known as vosh formerly known as irish lady into the youtube and twitch sphere in this section i want to focus on how ian chooses to operate in this space now the intentional mischaracterizations he makes of me are ultimately harmful to both me and the work that i do while i repeatedly get characterized as being obsessed by both him and his community ian is easily the most prevalent puppet master of this narrative there is nothing obsessive about covering some of the most popular political figures in this space making commentary about hot topic political issues the only goal of framing criticisms in this light is to escape any and all responsibility for the things one says and give oneself a pass to endlessly attack the people covering you it would be impossible for any mainstream figure like sean hannity or tucker carlson to start claiming that rival pundits are obsessive stalkers and this situation is no different ian has always been someone who has been an extremist in his political ideals even back in 2012 claiming that we ought to sacrifice intellectual honesty for the purpose of the progressive movement it would be detrimental in the sense that you wouldn't get the same frenzy blind anti-intellectual mentality following you but it would be it would it wouldn't be detrimental in serving a greater intellectual purpose to mankind i think in my opinion that and that's your opinion and look ideologically i again i would like nothing more than for us to be able to frankly and candidly discuss all issues with nothing more than the sincerest of intellectual honesty the only problem is i said the same thing about discussing differences about races and gender so this is something we're going to have to agree to disagree with sometimes if intellectual honesty is the cost of a successful improvement of the state of humanity then sometimes that just has to be made and he's also caused some conservative members of my community namely excuse me to leave after making multiple overtures advocating violence against conservatives um this is stuff that he said i think on streaming i think this is actually a a a pretty astute comparison i'm a leftist i'm a communist i believe that the property rights of the wealthy should not be respected i feel that their um uh assets should be seized from them and that many of them should be executed for crimes against the workers of this country that if i go up on stage just to be clear that's a pretty hard-line communist stance ideology i know you're a capitalist you know i haven't had an interesting i have an interesting mention from you where you say that i have all of the bullet attracting characteristics of a human um do you remember saying that about me yeah so to be clear as chat irish lady has basically said he would give me the bullet in his and his real world so while he's here whining about me dialoguing trending him we're coming into this with him basically saying he would kill me under his political system okay all right okay for one i didn't say i would do it i'm lazy okay let's not assign that responsibility to me but would you be killed generally oof i don't know you make a solid case every time you open your mouth yeah i'm not ashamed of that statement at all right but just work every day and you have me so whoa okay like for real you realize like memes you aren't in the demographic that would be like killed right you do realize that damn you're not enough of a capitalist no no you told me i mean i hope i don't know i don't know why for you for you excuse me it would be a matter of pleasure but for other people you keep joking like that when he keeps railing him for it has anyone here ever actually wanted to you know do a terrorism against groups like that no meme not gonna elaborate or anything i don't know i just wish neo-nazis were more scared for their life maybe just a backpack left at a rally you know a classic it'd only take one bombing to throw the entire alt-right into chaos can you imagine td and 8-chan if a nazi rally was bombed holy [ __ ] the salt alone would ethically justify the deaths of many people thank you jen and i just and i mean hopefully the culprit wouldn't be found god i just i can't believe nazis can just congregate and nobody's doing anything drastic a few hundred dudes in a crowd chanting blood and soil a single bomb or a well-timed burst of rifle fire could really make racists afraid again remind them that they're alone and in peril keep in mind in the united states of america you do have a first amendment right even if you are a nazi to go and march up and down whatever streets you want it used to be a right that we cherish to this country also the scary thing about comments like this are i'm pretty sure my community would count as a nazi community so i don't know if they'd want to ban like a destiny gg meetup but hey it is what it is vasha's flooded with the idea of being more or less radical over time for the most part he's always been considered significantly to the left of me ian was a highly active member of my community and has stated multiple times that he'd watched every video and debate i'd done twitter because lefties like to jerk themselves off over [ __ ] that i say about workers or whatever embarrassing as it is to admit i have watched every single youtube video that has been produced by your editor over the past two years in march of 2019 it had been brought to my attention by a few individuals that ian was engaging in some form of long-term sexual pressuring of an 18 year old woman in my community as my fan base was currently undergoing a fairly radical schism at the time i had to figure out a way to handle the situation that didn't make it look as though i was only punishing ian for being a leftist i decided to do a public reading of the logs first to my community to see what the general reaction would be to the behavior before revealing the culprit his behavior was almost universally condemned and it was only once i revealed who the accused was that some members of my community changed their mind said i was being too harsh this is where the classic as i'm reading the logs this is train omega lol pepe laugh this has to be train please don't flirt with me yikes lol nathan yikes wii u and then finds out it's irish lady yikes destiny why leak this [ __ ] [ __ ] you i have a cleanest [ __ ] record destiny's playing like he doesn't do anything so he just leaked [ __ ] what the [ __ ] destiny you're gonna say all this [ __ ] and call somebody on a stream and not give a friend a chance to defend himself this seems vindictive as [ __ ] he says you posted misinformation regardless the die had been cast i brought ian in a discord to have a conversation about what had transpired but ultimately was forced to kick him from my discord server for some time to protect members of my community the entirety of their discord dms can be found here and then this is a link in our archive to all of their conversations you can go and do that in your own time i'm not ian was incredibly upset at poppy post accusation even though he had continued to harass her after his apology and made references to either silencing her by attacking her in discord smearing and attacking her with his discord community or about how she was a disgusting human being who never needed an apology who needed to be reduced to a sobbing mess um this is bobby talking about how even after the apology he would still make weird comments and attack her um i won't read this whole thing um this is vosh signaling to his discord should i add poppy and dgg and tell her i'm onto her [ __ ] maybe i can scare her into shutting her up um this is poppy complaining about how even once um he was blocked after i blocked him for trying to groom me when i was going through a traumatic experience as an autistic young person he told me he wanted to prolapse my anus and rape me for months on end he did not stop until mobs mods got involved never apologized um it'll be really nasty and then this is a video nasty stuff nasty bottle um but uh that's the gist of it poppy is not worth apologizing to she is barely worth the [ __ ] in intrinsic human rights to which all human beings are endowed okay um she is a disgusting human being and that doesn't mean what i did wasn't wrong it does mean i will never apologize to her but i would love to have her on stream sometime because she is a nervous anxious neurotic liar and it would be really really easy to reduce her to a sobbing mess um publicly would this make me look better in the public eye no it would make me look worse but it would be very satisfying poppy has posted as recently as a year ago a summary of most of what happened in the fallout she experienced afterwards um and then this is like a summary of basically everything that happened basically um uh she was having a lot of trouble in her life was relatively asexual vosh or ian would continue to make like pretty aggressive sexual comments towards her even after she pretty explicitly said that she didn't want it anymore um and then once they had a falling out he basically harassed the [ __ ] out of my discord and then kind of sicked his fans on her to harass her as well um but once banished from my community ian began to grow in his own right as a youtuber he also rebranded from irish lady to vosh in order to escape the stigma of his prior misconduct allegations and continue to produce video and debate content across youtube and twitch we would go on to have a friendly rivalry for the next few years through conversation and debate with me privating the allegation video so as not to destroy his fledgling career though it wouldn't be without a couple notable road bumps one of the worst of these was during the written house debate saga where he stood idly by as his girlfriend roommate and community tried to get me banned with a 16 second misinterpretation of what i'd stated during a debate about rioting and defensive property um so this is wash saying like oh you guys can do what you want just don't advocate for um reporting in my discord stop do what you want with the reports but don't allude to or encourage mass reporting in the discord this is his girlfriend i think at the time unironically reporting the stream might be a good idea reporting him in this situation might actually be a good idea he's like saying people deserve to die um this was kanye and then xander hall amplifying trying to signal boost the [ __ ] out of this video that probably got over like a million views um this was one of his uh subreddit mods report his ass i don't care how you feel about destiny this is [ __ ] reprehensible and objectively worse than anything the likes of even nick fuentes or tucker carlson would feel comfortable saying his community had multiple threats calling me a white nationalist or a stochastic terrorist with ian liking multiple tweets standing the same um this was a big thread about um destiny's painting all protests with a right wide brush this irresponsible redder concern to slip and conservative talking points how long until someone sees this video goes on a shooting spree against blm go look at his sub all of his fans are calling the shooter innocent and treating him like a hero we need to stop engaging with destiny's takes will only continue to get more nuclear when we respond to him in this way easy to say as someone who had functionally zero percent respect of his uh having his life put in jeopardy white moderate check complaining purchase of writers check demanding so yeah i just this is a whole um effort post destiny is committing stochastic terrorism they just yeah um these are tweets that like washes liking about uh cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds all it took was kanye i think was his roommate all it took was black people showing black people in the streets and willing to burn [ __ ] down for steve to start really showing his ass i've consistently been the last president of same possible holy [ __ ] are you [ __ ] kidding me post-written house i decided it was no longer sufficient to be correct but rather i had to engage in some optical and rhetorical considerations so actors like ian weren't able to get to come out of arguments looking good while being so incorrect in their analysis ian decided to stop interacting with me after i became aware of this leading to two disastrous conversations where he advocated that socialists didn't have to live their principles and a heated screaming match where he claimed that bush and scalia were fascists there's something particular about socialism and about hassan this is like a whole conversation on i don't even know if i could clip this but about how basically if you're a socialist you don't have to do anything different than a capitalist when living your values you have to come back with a lot more arguments because and then this is vosh arguing that i think scalia and bush were fascists this panel was unhinged remember from podcasts i've listened to and articles that i've read in conversations that i've had with bush i think the argument is a lot more direct and it's obviously something i remember a little bit more directly i think that bush the obvious ones the straightforward ones are obviously the 2020 election and uh the extent to which it was not fairly earned in my opinion um this was um him arguing that george w bush and antonin scalia were fascists um once he started to elicit critical responses from his own community he decided it was no longer worth engaging with me and would continue to invent new excuses to avoid doing so and definitely onwards so his community even started to realize that like he was getting a little bit unhinged good faith criticism of ash's performance in last night's prime panel this had to do with him being a little crazy saying everybody is a fascist um i genuinely think this was probably the worst performance i've seen from vosh at least with the first sargon debate the only issue is that he got mad and was optically ineffective even his community understands the optics obsession here not only did he get mad and optically ineffective his argument at least when pepe led that's me joined were subpar some pretty yikes he takes like scalia is a fascist um and then this was him talking to a relevant about the um socialists or um socialists don't have to live their value or whatever but vosh identity ian initially started out as a more left version of me edgy debate lord logic and fact-pilled but ardently socialist and anti-capitalist in 2019 he did very well absorbing the fallout from the beginning of my anti-lefty arc but eventually realized with the decay of bread tube that it wasn't enough to simply rely on absorbing destiny anti-fans due to ian's extremist violent and anti-establishment rhetoric he could really only draw fans from other extremist circles on the internet however ian also had an interesting predicament and that like me he found himself at odds with many in the far left as well and became increasingly unwilling to debate or even engage with the far right january of 2022 vosh began to feud aggressively with luna oi non-compete fd signifier professor flowers and thought slime all of these were large hypothetical left-leaning uh content creators that he's fighting with for a while ian sought to forge a friendship with hassan due to hassan's fallout with me however he was hassan was looking to disengage with the debate side of the internet and network hard with more normal streamers so he could grow his fan base that he could grow his fan base off of hassan also prescribes to a similar view ian does of not platforming smaller content creators so ian had no chance of linking up for years ian was incredibly critical of hassan even wanting to take his place cargo boy [ __ ] that i'm gonna be the dragon who takes hassan's place i strongly disavow hassan's perspective on tankies i need to grow stronger before i can publicly criticize people like hassan i actually am dieting right now looking better will help my appeal it works for hassan all i care about is growing is it weird for me to think it's weird if someone doesn't follow me on twitter fyi remember the hassan editor drama i was the person who encouraged hassan's would-be editor to make public his exploitation i do hope i'm able to eclipse the sun i'm growing rapidly assange is editor guy more my problem with the sound is that he's the biggest leftist streamer and i want to be that for years ian was incredibly critical of hassan even wanting to take his place but when setting his sights on further stream growth he eventually tried to gear himself up to be more palatable to larger streamers even admitting as much when doing large a large charity stream in may of 2021. you know i really hope that this big live stream the charity the positivity all of it i hope that it in encourages some people who are on the fence about me to be more open to working with me in the future working with me i mean you know speaking amicably that would be nice i think by january of 2022 ian switched to maximum simp mode trying to get on a son's good side eventually he would realize this was futile zasan simply had no desire to engage and would return to being critical of him and his fan base spies people that want to like constantly [ __ ] i don't want to debate i i think the only way to figure out who has the best ideas is by like testing the intellectual medal it's like dude that's fine there's a space for that stem lords love that [ __ ] okay that's how ben shapiro made his like living right for many many years and i i like having someone like that on the left so that they can you know take all the debate guys because i [ __ ] despise it like i i think it's really really really annoying it's kind of like how i used to look tell the gagger because like all the cranks yeah would go and like being here and then this was vasha's interpretation of that i want to debate like is this woman oh by the way in case you guys are wondering this is me inferring or whatever but like people [ __ ] about hassan my community i'm pretty sure this is hassan actually like covering for me the the real reason why hassan like doesn't do co-lab [ __ ] with me is because my optics are terrible and would incur like a [ __ ] ton of hate on his part him saying oh it's because his debate broke community would be annoying to deal with is actually a way of covering for me because the inevitable follow-up to him saying vasha's optics are so bad it's difficult to even think about talking with him is to explain why my optics are bad and every time that comes up it's a 20-minute conversation about every cancellation i've ever had so so keep in mind like you guys are being used i'm pretty sure you guys really use the shield to prevent criticizing me which i which i actually think is rather courteous of him um so yeah i don't yeah i i yeah that's i don't have anything to complain about here aren't you both equally controversial not even close syrian or not i think that's january of 2022 he switched to sim mode didn't work blah blah in march of 2022 ian had another massive falling out with the leftist and video essayist community this time after a fight with kat blaque contra points and noah sampson this combined with viral tweets with jk rowling losing him thousands of subscribers across on his youtube ian decided to totally isolate himself in his community assuming debate as skewing is stewing and skewing [ __ ] i don't remember what i said debate or challenging engagement and instead focusing on ratcheting up the extremist rhetoric and exclusively covering youtube videos and social issues on stream he would go on to call this in april of 2022 the fortress arc think it's issuing a way to defeat bad ideas is exposure argument and persuasion no idiot the way oh this is in mid-2020 oh this [ __ ] there's a better clip for this this is in mid-2020 talking about him wanting to oh no wait oh [ __ ] maybe let's just keep sorry let's just watch there's a lot of clips the way to defeat bad ideas is exposure argument and persuasion no idiot the way to defeat ideas is power you seize control of institutions you do everything within your legal and moral right to destroy the ability for them to disseminate their ideas you exercise them from society you make intolerant their perspectives and then you obfuscate any man like like granules of truth are able to get out i'm sorry the idea in this case is someone mounting any defense for destiny here's how he'll go about squashing that in his community but anyway they'll pull out a rhetorical technique um oh which brings me to um my subreddit the purges will continue um 100 um dgers in terms of their willingness to raid and in terms of their moral like uh i don't know um what would i say um moral capacity their moral uh standing are as far as i'm concerned like on board with like all right raids and i just don't care you can look over at like destiny's subreddit and there are people over there like they literally act like kiwi farmers that's not a joke you're free to go and look at destiny subreddit they just act like kiwi farmers you can compare um they don't use slurs the way kiwi farmers do sometimes but in terms of their behavior and their seeming like adherence to reality they're pretty much on board with that so yeah the bands will continue like pretty much all the time make it tolerant their ideas um oh last thing reminds me of gamergate back in 2014 gamergate uh you know big big bad big bad stuff and during gamergate like 95 of the well-intentioned skeptic community like 95 of gamergate was full of like well-intentioned people who just wanted to defend you know uh journalistic rights and like games journalism ethics and what have you um and there was the five percent who were like psychotic doctors this was the case every time basically the psychotic doctors would go to like feminist youtubers and like dox them leak all their [ __ ] harass them death threats rape threats everything you know and then when those victims complained about it the 95 the concerned trolls knowing or unknowing would come in and they would be like um how can you paint all of us gamergaters as psychotic doctors i don't stand with that person but they all watch the same content creators so they do and they all do the same thing and they play the same game uh this is destiny this is destiny's fans um i don't care whether you're one of the psychotic destiny fans or not um at all uh i don't care uh you all play defense you're psychotic that's nice psychotic do whatever you like uh next topic does it matter to vosh you're a psychotic doctor or not being a fan of destiny's intolerable in all cases because you're supporting that behavior four obfuscate any granules of truth they're able to get out the issue with destiny is that like speaking frankly if you distill it down to its truth destiny argues to feel smarter than other people um every position that he holds is a product of his desire to satiate an emotional need to feel smarter than other people that is absolutely the case and he's essentially admitted this on stream before um that's what happens when you are primarily interested i don't know if i have to say there's not but i've never said on a stream that i argue to feel smarter than people by the way in the pursuit of the truth which by the way pursuit of the truth means pursuit of what you think is true and you're primarily self-interested and you argue in favor of self-interest all this adds together to mean that he doesn't argue for trans rights because he believes in trans rights he argues for trans rights because those positions when held are the easiest ones to defend they give him the greatest rhetorical and intellectual advantage against the people he argues against but having pro-trans positions is not the same thing as being pro-trans usually they are for most people that is the case but it's possible to be destiny a person who argues in favor of most pro-transpositions and then to spend a ton of time on twitter quote-tweeting tiny trans accounts accusing them of being rumors accusing them of being pedophiles accusing them of being sex pests making fun of trans people's suicide attempts we'll get into this but almost every one of these claims is half true or fake going on a twitter rant in which he defends continuing to make fun of people's uh suicide attempts uh you know it's possible to be pro-trans position but still transphobic if you defend destiny because of his support of social issues vosh will obscure destiny's position to say that he doesn't really care about it but we'll get into this later i don't need all this now in march i was indefinitely suspended from twitch after some time not appealing his ban on twitch for the cracker arc ian sending an opportunity that very same day applied for an unban from twitch and then made excuses to go back onto panels again unchallenged perhaps with the goal of trying to peel viewers off of my old colleagues chris he still wouldn't have me on how is that defending him i was assigned unbanned i haven't even submitted my ban appeal um is it a perm ban from twitch uh it's an indefinite ban i don't think he was implying that much but as people said i don't know why people got so hung up about it german i don't know what pee wee herman actually is i don't actually i don't actually know what that refers to will i ever get unbanned from twitch maybe one day i'll submit an appeal uh you know did you mention the new emote oh yeah the the uh and then on the day that i was banned well you've not appealed no no i appealed last night just because i wanted to find out if destiny getting permit from twitch was some kind of like full metal alchemist equivalent exchange thing where like i could somehow rest myself from the ban through the power of his ban you know like to see if there's some sort of universal constant that i can exploit to get back on the platform but um i thought you didn't want to do panels well i thought you didn't want to do panels but now that i'm banned i generally don't however dylan burns is um like live covering stuff from poland like talking to refugees and [ __ ] like that's pretty awesome i i feel like i feel like that deserves recognition you know he's a liberal oh and an example of now that he goes on panels unchallenged he can say insane [ __ ] this is wash killing someone a liberal as a derogatory term because when asked why or what liberal meant he changed his mind to fascist and image he avoided because people make fun of him also it doesn't really matter to be fair that wildman was here for he was on twitch before um oh why are you calling him a liberal why do you think he's a liberal he's there are a couple of reasons i mean he's certainly not a socialist a liberal a liberal is a person whose economic and social ideology derives from liberalism or liberalism i'm sorry sorry liberalism the broader you know enlightenment philosophies it tends to be associated with things like okay fine you found me out i don't actually think he's a liberal honest to god i think he's probably closer to a fascist i don't think that he embraces liberal values i was just using the term liberal i was just using the terms because i always call people fascists that i get made fun of for it even though i can substantiate it most of the time so in that case i decided to go with liberal but no i think he's probably a fascist yeah my treatment of ian before i get too far into how ian treats me i'd like to establish something for how i deal with people i lack respect for i might personally attack or show disdain towards someone who has wronged me but i will always give them credit for making good arguments and i will try to be fair when they get involved in situations with others this has resulted in me siding with and supporting arguments for several individuals over the years that i had long-standing public feuds with later on we'll look at how ian claims i'm spite driven and dishonest when dealing with him but before we look at his claims let's take a look at how i actually treat him one i almost always show the full video of whatever ian is saying so that he has a chance to explain the entire context of whatever topic he's discussing i almost never rely on second-hand characterizations of things he said those tend to be warped whether intentionally or not two i was willing to mute my stream and have conversations with him while he was banned from twitch you're gonna wait to be responsible for you getting back muted three i deleted the poppy sexual allegation videos from my channel so his fledgling youtube career wasn't besmirched with such damaging allegations early on i would defend him relating to poppy multiple times later on i don't want to know they exist anymore you just don't want to know they exist they talk a lot [ __ ] about also in dusty's community yeah because destiny doesn't like him and he is per and he has gone off his way to humiliating his stream too i'm pretty sure i'm one of the few people in my community that defends flash i think i'll say it again for the seven trillion of the time i don't think you should be canceled forever i don't think you've raped anybody like i'm totally cool with him like acknowledging what he did and i said i don't think i'm in a mother's day life i'm pretty sure i'm so i mean i say this i've said this like a million [ __ ] times i'll say it again i guess but okay you go for it people bring up vasha's past on like a weekly basis yeah i mean i stopped that [ __ ] after a month i didn't care anywhere after like a week or two even but irish said he's planning on banning two weeks with somebody yeah sure i'm talking irish he's a good conversational partner have you seen irish ladies tanks on tanki's honest to god i think irish lady might be the only leftist i've seen that's actually disavowed tankies um but honestly that might actually be the case like he actually like he actually disavows the [ __ ] out of tankies i don't know if i've ever seen another lefty that does that i've watched it too no that's what i'm saying bosh is ironic sorry isn't contradicting that now we'll continue but i don't think he's representing socials are coming like all the other lefty people like nancy and son and michael brooks and those people like those guys are the [ __ ] out of like tankies and like ussr apology and [ __ ] any thoughts on how vosh handled his interview with jc peterson um it seemed to be okay i think did we watch all of it or just most of it i don't remember but it seemed to be fine based on what i saw did a pretty good job i would like vosh every time i think of him i didn't think of the whole harassment thing i mean people [ __ ] up and do stupid [ __ ] i mean i don't know what you're gonna do i have that stupid [ __ ] if you don't like bosh like you probably shouldn't like me because i've been a lot of dumb [ __ ] in the past too so i've defended and advertised ian's good faith multiple times to my community even after the poppy drama or but i'm guessing it refers to the bingo card that this guy was saying earlier how like before i go into a debate with somebody i already have a bingo card for everything they're going to say like i'm going to check off all the boxes like i already know how to respond to all of the whatever because i have my own hit pieces everything prepared like it's super super super weird and it makes me feel like um it makes me really uncomfortable um and it's like it's super rare this is actually one of the reasons like it's funny because like the one who's the pedophile guy um i don't know if he was a pedophile yi amos he that guy him spoiler alert he was i mean like one other person irish lady believe it or not are like these are like some of the few people that i've had a conversation with and i felt like they were actually engaging with what i was saying rather than they had like memorized scripts and they were just kind of like running it down like it was super vegan games actually was okay as well vegan games was good too even if i disagree with them but yeah it's really hard to find people um they can actually like engage in a conversation that's two-way where they're not just like dictating to you some like memorize speech or whatever um i ironically even worried about him turning into youtube vosh in one of these clips where i was defending him [Music] yeah it sucks to say but i think bosh is probably one of the best good faith um interactivities i've ever had although to be fair this is hard to say and i don't want to discourage watch because i just don't know like it seems like people are really good faith when they're like guests of the destiny stream but then sometimes when they spin off and do their own thing i start to wonder a little bit more um like when rem was on my stream i feel like remember always like pretty good faith and then some of the things he's been involved in like recently it kind of made me wonder like well hold on like wait is the second issue i should care about are we literally just like farming over like heck w's on twitter like what the [ __ ] i'm not sure uh i hope that like vosh like isn't it like if i talk to vosh again i hope he's not like youtube youtube vosh instead of like the one that i remember talking to before that could have like good conversations and [ __ ] he's never given me a reason to believe that he would be like significantly different or [ __ ] up which is good so but yeah i guess despite being friends with bastia and feuding quite viciously with ian i cast the third and deciding vote in his favor in the hippie tv debate because i genuinely thought he did a better job and the last vote is from celebrity guest judge destiny for vosh giving it two he laughed early because he thought i was gonna vote against him because he thought i was as spiteful as he is 2-1 for vage making vosh the hippy dippy champion destiny being the tie breaking wait i was entitled oh god or bastard's to hate me [ __ ] congratulations well uh yeah you know uh i saw the voice coming the whole time frankly um wait in all seriousness um despite being friends with riley i took his and doe's side in the rgr doe debate good evening oh can you hear me uh-oh yeah i can hear you just fine so the debate was between you and doe i don't want to rehash its entirety here oh this is just the start of this but i i ended up taking his side and dough side despite the fact that i hate both of them i think they made better arguments i gave ian a lot of credit in his debate with demon mama even after written house and after him calling me spiteful and obsessively hateful vosh has been so kind and so generous to demon mama he's been so charitable he's boosted her giving her a huge this is march 15th of this year in platform brings her on their chummy pals he's like ultra charitable even in their discrimination and even though even though he's done all of this now he's gonna piss because he wants to say he's like dude shut the [ __ ] up like i'm treating with kid gloves why the [ __ ] are you raging are you trying to gaslight me i sided with ion against chaos as mel even though he was a bit hot-headed in the beginning problematic ways of disassembling that's not what mel was saying at all oh my god dude is so [ __ ] mad at this conversation going full full steam ahead oh no wacky debaters you've never talked to me you have no all right muted oh my god he was so bad i did ultimately side with him in the debate though then again chaos as well as a [ __ ] tanky so maybe that's not saying much even my community sided with ian against professor flowers debate between vosh and professor flowers over black nationalism ethnic nationalist bad literally nick fuentes talking points nice one lefties defending that crazy racist [ __ ] on twitter proving it again horseshoe theory is correct no different to gripers nick fuentes [ __ ] these disingenuous pieces of [ __ ] for all the justified haiti is getting vosh is a good debater when his opponent is insane his charlie kirk debate and this one are good examples i no longer watch his content for a plethora of reasons but at the time he does a good job against anyone with bad positions this is in contrast to his community calling me a pedophile rapist groomer trans hater whatever by the way i've sided with i sided with ian hardcore multiple times against noah sampson you can make fun of benjamin jordan peterson all you want uh if it makes you feel better if you feel like the leaders or whatever but like the fact that there is these are like widely influential people and they have a hold over a huge audience that the left just basically said abandoned started he was a vapor the only reason i even had an extreme because the baby had charlie curt and it was prepared prepare for future debates if you come out of the non-compete bosch arguments thinking that non-compute looks good there i think you probably are really you need to check your political values or something but the thing is that like even vosh would agree with this like they act like something like oh well wash like they was like antagonistic and i think this is the second one too where i side with him on this phone have you watched every single video that jesus christ do you think that i could ever use that excuse like when he's left he's like did he says anything i'm like have you watched every single one of my videos have you seen ever sided with bosh every time against noah samson i sided with ian multiple times against luna oy and non-compete so i'm just i'm going to guess i don't watch this loser's twitter but is he and is he in luna on twitter now saying that vox is a nazi or think that like the jews deserved to die during world war two because that's to vosh yeah this is exactly the same thing that he did to me it's really scary i guess i don't know as i'm getting older because he says that him and luna are like translating books there's another i think where i actually hope you're gonna lecture me having this discussion is my point can you answer that question do you think idealism means when you construct a hypothetical stuff why does this not work oh why is this a [ __ ] this is the beginning of this debate so i don't i'll say it eventually i said with him in this one too i said ian did a good job in his conversation with charlie kirk i think like in terms of like content everything they talked about i think they should a good job at like not like losing is cool or like being chill like i think that that was fine um but then on the flip side i could see people being upset or they're like he didn't challenge him he didn't change enough and i don't know how you balance that because i'm trying to think at the end of the day do i feel like wash and charlie had like substantive disagreements that were ever settled with some sort of prescriptive thing like wash did because wash did push back on things right on most things but like did it was it was actually sustainable i'm not sure it's hard i guess it's hard to tell maybe like moving through topics or um even when he was bleeding thousands of subscribers during his jk rowling fumble i tried to give the best possible explanation of his point of view don't deserve me oh i could see myself totally you know especially because maybe i wouldn't have made a misogynistic comment towards jk rowling because i might have made fun of her for being british instead true oh because i was saying i can understand vosh being under attack so much and then just letting like one misogynistic comet fly and then that one gets blown up and i said yeah i could probably make the same mistake like i'm sympathetic towards him there um let's talk about more in this video i defended him multiple times against people misquoting old things he said where they paint him to be a pedophile even on a popular podcast with isaac butterfield darien's in my chat it's usually to make fun of the fact that they argue about wanting to be pedophiles all the time that's what we talk about when it comes to delivery are you talking about when you say that i don't think she's done anything that remotely pedophilia ever but that's really weird because he's talked about how this uh the age of consent would be lower in a socialist society he's talked a lot about the age of that i read an article today that said his opinions on the age of consent have changed a lot since 2019 so i don't think it's maybe like a little bit disingenuous to say he's never said i think that if you go in any of the arguments that vosh has ever given when talking about the age or consent they are far more nuanced than i think we should be able to [ __ ] little kids i don't think vosh has ever said anything else um that was in 2020 december this was a recent podcast i think more recently with isaac butterfield in march of this year send him any good faith whatsoever because he's uh i i don't i hate that i'm saying this because i shouldn't extend him any good faith whatsoever because he's truly a scum [ __ ] movie i don't think he's an actual pedophile um i just say she'll love it so i think he's had some like dumb quotes that are like kind of hyperbolic like i want to say at one point i hope i'm just gonna i think it's something like if you're okay with like child slavery like people making closing chinese okay with like child sex and it's like i understand what he's going for he's trying to say that like neither of those are okay but people took it as him saying that both were okay um but yeah i'm pretty sure that's what a lot of the codes are but the only so do my best to understand and still men his positions even though i shouldn't i clarified that vosh wasn't as bad as a son when he was banned from twitch over the cracker discourse this week tweaks um twitch suspended three streamers hassan vosh and fawn child it's sexy because it's fun um she should be included with either of these two okay because she legitimately was not insulting anybody with it definitely should be included with a song although i should argue i'm still gonna use it as a slur which maybe sounds kind of dumb but like clearly the worst i like the grouping of these three together like we're trying to [ __ ] ceos we're trying to throw like bad mortgages in with good ones make all of them seem the same like this is [ __ ] i don't know why you put all three of these together it's actually so disingenuous i've said that i hold ian to a higher standard than assan for political discourse a lot of [ __ ] up [ __ ] happened he was also walking around there's like so damn dude i try i don't i try to i evaluate vash and assign differently because i consider vosh to be more like a political streamer and assange is more like pop politics or whatever i don't know what the [ __ ] you would call whatever like um frankenstein of like social history entertainment plus pretending to read anything about the news i don't know you call this one but i i tend to hold them in like different regards so like i'll put um i'll put like to wait higher standards and pull this on um but i expressed that i thought that ian's ban was unfair from twitch over the cracker discourse that's horrible yeah that's where we're at i do agree though it sucks i i i don't think boston should be banned from twitch um no i don't think so either he his well it wasn't really that bad not converted if he appeals he might come back but little did we know he wasn't going to do that till he could slither back on i even defend ian against unfair characterizations from my chat it's like was washed alleging that you were lying about wreckful destiny wait what like there are people that don't even seek help from mental health professionals because they are so [ __ ] afraid of being committed to institutions but i don't think that most people see it wait what would it even say anybody it wouldn't notice that like the guy makes a claim about vosh in my chat so i click through the link and then i listen to what he was saying to see if i agree with the characterization of the chatter the chat said that the chatter said that vosh is implying that you lied about his uh lied about byron killing himself and if i was vosh i would say like oh yeah he did what a horrible person that's because he's evil but i don't do that i'll click the little link i'll listen to and in this case i disagreed with the chatter's characterization i don't think that's what varsh was implying there more autocratic than we are uh we could have been on top of the world if we had committed to the development of green energy and then moved our manufacturing sector over from coal and cars or whatever else comparative advantage would have demanded we move our industry to the third world and started producing green energy [ __ ] here we could have built we could have been like spacemen we could have lived in the future we could have patented all this technology and sold it to the rest of the world of course i would have asked that we sell at a very low prices and maybe even give free for developing countries and stuff but like man modern american industry could have been built off of the green energy revolution and we're and it's too late now we can get into it sure but we won't be the first ones not even close um we're going to be at best at par with other leaders everyone has so stupid this is absolutely true the united states could have been a leader in all of this 1 million one trillion percent we just have a political will to do something uh we'll probably guys in chat listen to what people are saying are [ __ ] go away oh my god some of you guys hate people so i [ __ ] hate watch okay well i don't really hate people but [ __ ] it so i don't like him obviously but just when something right it's right like don't be like so [ __ ] weird where like every single thing somebody that you guys don't like or you think i don't like says something you're like oh that's so wrong oh that's so dumb oh that's so stupid like jesus this is a common theme in my chat even you guys do this as much as i don't wish that you guys would you guys will hear somebody that you don't like like jordan peterson or ben shapiro or vosh or hassan they'll say something and you just want to disagree with them just because of who they are i try not to ever do that there might be times when people you don't like make good points and when they do that then you give them credit for it you know um um i could probably find more here i don't know if i need to but like i i think that i'm pretty relentless in my treatment of ian pretty good faith i'll give her credit when he needs it when i disagree with things they're on substance but symlaxtony i want to describe one of the big processes in which people come to believe things about me that aren't true for lack of a clever name i'll call this the dlc or destiny lie cycle that ian continually takes part in one a false claim about me is made or a statement about something i've said with no proof or reference oftentimes this might be a chatter saying hey vosh did you hear when destiny said x y z oh apparently i skipped 19. um it's just me saying that vosh is better than all these other people to be vervage is easy one thousand times greater than the three of these other [ __ ] combined it didn't have time to make a meme with someone else in the bottom left sorry i skipped number 19. step one there's a false claim about me as made or a statement about something i've said with no proof or reference oftentimes this might be a chatter saying hey vosh did you hear when destiny said xyz or tweet claiming i've said or done something number two a character explanation will be given for why i've done the thing i did not do of course destiny said this it's because he's transphobic arrogant racist sociopathic etc number three this claim will echo and reverberate throughout the community ian's community will listen to agree with and repeat back his characterization of me as they discuss why i am the kind of person who would do the kind of thing that i did not actually do number four this new demonic caricature will become the reference for future attacks remember when destiny said xyz guys where the thing that's being remembered is not actually the thing i've said or done but the initial false claim a copy without a reference or simulacrum if you will let's look at some examples for how claims are made and exaggerated notice that in contrast to my treatment of ian he will almost never have the original video or tweet on screen to engage with what's actually being discussed instead it's almost always a caricature or his memory of another character of what i've said also sometimes the exaggerations are not huge but they're just slight enough to slowly change the representations of things i've said over time to slowly morph me into a monster example one ian misrepresents an entire twitter change chain for the purpose of making me look ridiculous almost nothing said here is true you who don't remember there was this lady on twitter who just tweeted not at anyone not in response to anything just not even in this circle just just a person on twitter who tweeted that she'd been raped like several times and essentially asked men to not do that and then mind waves who's like a i guess a adjacent to destiny i don't really know tweeted some snarky [ __ ] at that and then destiny jumped in and said something about how like if she wasn't strong enough to speak up to the guys who were raping her then it ended with her him calling her like a [ __ ] child for not having the strength of character to speak up to a rapist or whatever like out of nothing like again this was just some random and almost nothing said here is true she hadn't initially tweeted that she'd been raped several times she said a dude slipped his condom off during sex after i asked him to wear one this week and it's been bothering me but i was too awkward to say anything not even the first time this has happened stop doing this man i never said you needed to be strong enough to stand up to guys raping you i said if you're noticing someone is taking a condom off and you can't say anything you probably don't have the emotional maturity to engage in sex you should just grab a caretaker or something and stick to masturbating to furry porn sorry that's a response not even to the girl but to somebody else i never called her a [ __ ] child i quote tweeted one of my own tweets and said if you are not if you are noticing someone is taking a condom off and you can't say anything probably under the emotional treaty to sex and then the quote treat was sorry i want to apologize to my last tweet you should treat every single woman you come across like a [ __ ] child who's incapable of voicing an opinion about literally anything ideally you would bring her dad along to every [ __ ] so that he can guide her through the process ian goes on to spend minutes recounting an entire set of tweets and convos yet never shows an original video or tweet once why number two now that ian has created a false copy he refers back to it saying i've engaged in rape apologia and that i've said a woman who was raped is like a [ __ ] child right after saying i've done so many awful things to justify my twitch justified when he was doing his like rape apologia arc and like laughing and saying that like a woman who was raped was a [ __ ] child like if he got banned from twitch for that i would have thought yeah no [ __ ] i have never engaged in rape apologia and none of my tweets were ever calling the original victim a [ __ ] child three ian has also incorrectly stated that i'm laughing at women who are choosing to be raped i'm a proud agent of the c.i.a and destiny is currently laughing uh at the audacity of women like choosing to be raped ian talks about something we saw in regards to me laughing at a woman who was raped and calling her a [ __ ] child this never happened the thing his audience saw was past fiction and now he's referring to it in reference to an event that never happened but we saw destiny during the whole like rape apologia arc where like again he's literally just like laughing at a woman who was raped calling her a [ __ ] child he also claims i've argued against me too in this clip and says women should shut up if they get raped despite me doing a ton of me too coverage on stream and being thanked by victims of abusers online about it he also repeats we saw all of this except ian has never shown anyone anything he even goes on to say that no context is missing from any of my statements but we saw destiny during the whole like rape apology arc where like again he's literally just like laughing at a woman who was raped calling her a [ __ ] child attacking her over nothing literally she said nothing to him he just decided to attack her like just remember i'm not attacking her i'm quote tweeting myself responding to other people and then later he like argued against me too and said women should shut up if they get like raped and not like talk about it on social media anyway we saw all of this and like i saw somebody in my replies point this out and then somebody a dg replied to that saying did you look at the context of those statements my brother in christ no context was missing from those statements almost every statement created is either half true or completely fabricated the anti-me too statements are most likely in reference to this tweet where i was critical of people who randomly open up about trauma and assault on twitter real talk opening up about your rape and [ __ ] on twitter is incredibly [ __ ] weird and should have never been normalized i have no idea why the [ __ ] people encourage others to trauma dump on social media it's insanely unhealthy i don't believe it's an appropriate form to trauma dump but i've also said i don't believe me too is about trauma dumping it's about holding larger figures accountable when all other avenues of justice have been exhausted it's fair to take issue with my tweet but there's no fair characterization of me that is anti-metoo ian here calls me transphobic while admitting i hold pro transpositions um honestly i just think that destiny's a transphobe people in his community will argue against it because uh he's had pro-transpositions in the past and even does currently but let me um let me talk to you very briefly about that um he goes on to destroy my character before stating anything about my transpositions saying i don't care about minority groups calling me a sociopath badly misquoting my philosophical position on egoism after running through some garbage philosophy to explain his own way of argumentation he eventually arrives at a position that i argue i that i argue to feel smarter about other people um honestly i just think that destiny's a transphobe people in his community will argue against him because uh he's had pro transpositions in the past and even does currently but let me um let me talk to you very briefly about that very very briefly how can you justify that just to watch person who joined the site in the last 24 hours all right you get out of here there we go so i'm going to paraphrase destiny here but nothing that i'm about to say is a smear it's um literally just a thing that he said about himself uh destiny does not care inherently about any minority groups remember he's paraphrasing me because you never show the reference only the references that he's created the false references however he cares about the pursuit of the truth truthful positions he said that himself he said it for years too like he cares first and foremost about finding the truth which sounds nice you know um uh he said for years as well that he's a sociopath which is kind of a warning sign when people say that about themselves whether or not they're correct but you know that's a joke um he said uh uh many times uh that uh he's a he's an egoist um that his moral um his moral biases are towards his own self-betterment you know now on their own that's step one to building out social contract theory which he never does these things are inherently um are inherently wrong the issue is how they combine let me explain okay so the way that these combine are me saying i'm generally interested in myself people work better when we're working together therefore we ought to work with as many people as possible because we've created a society that's happy and healthy for everybody it's going to benefit me the most that's how it comes together in the end and that's how it's always come together in every moral philosophy debate i've had and in every policy position debate i've ever had and it's exactly what i said earlier in my own document regarding trans issues i talk about um all these political issues it's because i have a political bias towards a set of principles derived from subjective axioms that i want to achieve they involve equality they involve you know human betterment you know bloody block i've talked about it a million times before i have a what feels like an external set of processes and uh destinations that i can refer to whenever i want the world you know when whenever i want to refer to my own beliefs now obviously these are still subjectively held values the axioms so it's not like i have some objective truth marker that i can figure out but i think it's still useful the issue with destiny is that like speaking frankly if you distill it down to its truth destiny argues to feel smarter than other people um every position that he holds is a product of his desire to satiate an emotional need to feel smarter than other people but the way that he characterizes this is so insane i've said that i hold the positions that i think are the most defensible because i think they're correct that's i don't understand what the alternative to that would be would it be me arguing for positions that i think are incorrect i don't understand um oh ashley jubilee is that the person we fought with a few days ago but apparently i only argue feel smarter than other people whatever that means this is an obvious contrast to the large number of academics i've had on my stream why would i challenge myself i just wanted to feel smarter than others it seems strange to construct so much argumentation to attack someone for wanting to pursue the truth ian here falsely claims that i'm quote tweeting multiple transgender people and calling them pedophiles groomers and sex pests and making fun of their suicide attacks but it's possible to be destiny a person who argues in favor of most pro-trans positions and then to spend a ton of time on twitter quote tweeting tiny trans accounts accusing them of being rumors accusing them of being pedophiles accusing them of being sex pests making fun of trans people's suicide attempts going on a twitter rant in which he defends continuing to make fun of people's suicide attempts uh you know it's it's possible to be pro trans position but still transphobic none of these statements have literally anything to do with transphobia the only trans person i've ever called a pedophile was chloe the one who originated the joke about me raping my wife on stream she was the one that originally popularized this she even admits as much and that was in response to her tweeting that she'd gotten over 500 miners on hrt yikes at bob posting's actual pedophile be careful kids her tweet response to me was also i got like 500 plus minors on hrt not seven get it right steven i do not make fun of trans people's suicide attempts i have only gone after one person doe and it had nothing to do with her being trans ian will go on to do more character assassination trying to claim that i believe all trans people to be stupid ingrates who are sub-human internet detractors it's that he and his community regard them with a kind of detached apathy essentially destiny thinks trans people are stupid ingrates who don't appreciate all the good he's done for trans people and in that respect because they've wronged him and his bias and priority is towards his well-being uh they're functionally no different from the alt-righters that he used to argue against uh they're just another group of you know essentially sub-human internet detractors that he can pull out all the stops against i have never given any indication like this in my life this is also a touch ironic as ian has said in much harsher words than i the left community online particularly the lgbt community is cancerous as [ __ ] if you're not an idiot you will agree with me on this if you have any [ __ ] experience with online like lgbt or leftist discourse you know it's cancerous as [ __ ] you understand this people are hyper fragile there's a ton a ton of mental illness and these you can't convert these people they're not reasonable they have to be excised from the left and it's because it's coming from dumb [ __ ] who are gay what is this person says they're gay as hell because it's coming from the gays it's woke now these people are less than human to me i have no respect for these people these people are [ __ ] disgusting you don't need to be a psychologist to see that a large portion of the broader um [ __ ] like woke-tard cancel culture it pull left is predicated on shared mental illness this is particularly prominent in the trans community if you disagree with me on this you're wrong i know it sounds yikesy it happens anyway pretty much every time i deal with [ __ ] from the left it's trans girls that i notice there's a vastly disproportionate amount of dumb [ __ ] lefty takes in my feed coming from trans people like i don't like i don't know most of the time when a wildly [ __ ] irrational lefty comes in to make bad faith arguments against me it's a trans person that is a fact if all of these dumb [ __ ] recognize that i despise them and think they're every bit as detrimental to the left as nazis are i'm doing good i want these people to know that they're my enemy i [ __ ] hate them i really do but they're not your enemies oh no no no no yes they are they hurt me and they hurt you because every time some dumb [ __ ] trans girl on twitter who's acting out mental illness whining calling people like me transphobic because i disagree with them they're hurting the left no these people are ill these people are a cancer they're sub-human you don't have to do that kind of [ __ ] that doesn't help yeah i'm edgy i don't give a [ __ ] it's not just you you know that's not just being edgy damn right yeah it's edgy as [ __ ] making a reference to the jewish question about how like there's like a trans conspiracy or whatever like that's not just being edgy that's like literally calling for the death of it's a touch ironic is ian has said in much harsher words than i the online trans community is hyper fragile wrought with a ton of mental illness and that they are unreasonable people that can't be converted he also said that these people are less than human and subhuman and he's claimed coming on stream and saying people need to kill themselves and like it's the trans community well well well hold on for one yes i think these people are an existential threat to the safety and success of leftism yeah they're as big of threat as nazis easily yes 100 uh yeah detroit yes it's also claimed the online trans community is a bigger threat than nazis i guess technically he said as big a threat as nazi so that's a little bit of fake news here in my bed ian's transphobic rants were so legendary they got him notoriety in other left-leaning communities on reddit there are some reddits that have bots that will automatically ban you if you post in washes subreddit because you're um because they say that he's transphobic um [Music] i don't remember all of these subreddits but bosch assists man claims trans people do not have a better understanding of transness they have like a bot to um like auto respond to wash posters i think with quotes from vosh about trans people vosh claims that my moral compass is [ __ ] and that the warning signs have been there for years he'll make another reference back to all of the horrible things i've done but he's never referencing a real action or thing i've done only his other references the stops against um i think that destiny's moral compass is [ __ ] i think the warning signs have been there for years but they've gotten infinitely worse in the past few years and as a product of all this i just don't care about him being banned from twitch because he's done so many things that i would consider worthy of it that parsing out the specifics of how this ban took place when the twitch ban is opaque and i don't actually know how he got banned from twitch is i just don't care this is in contrast to when i was talking to mr girl and i said that vosh probably shouldn't be banned from twitch when he was explicitly defending calling people racial source because they were white by the way all doing this while still claiming that i'm the one that's spite driven and that i'm the one that treats him unfairly ian claims that my community is psychotic by referring to objective truth care which brings me to his community uh it's psychotic um i'm sorry i can defend what is the evidence for that can you tell me again to objective truth on this one just go look at it okay of course he never does look at it of course or show anything about it ian horrendously misrepresents my opinion during the just move discourse claiming my positions are ridiculous and then i walk them back and you [ __ ] us me up he's singing new laws we're not talking with destiny anymore there's not really a point i've i mean i have to keep saying this because i know there's like a deep tie between the community but the tie is done we're not getting through to that i think that his behavior has been desperate and juvenile over the past couple of months and it's so clear that his positions are motivated more by spiting the left than anything else he's taken ridiculous positions walk them back then redouble them one of the things that i found most embarrassing like really embarrassing is that for about a year now destiny has repeated this like just move thing if you not everyone has to live in a big inner city if you can't afford your rent just move to like nebraska or some other place that doesn't have super high rent to which the immediate question is then what about the hundreds of thousands of service workers in that city like you know the people in that city that maintain the city for wages that are too small to live in the city he never answers this then he finally talks and never answers this my just move arc was a prescription that if you couldn't afford when you lived your rent is your biggest part of your budget so you should find a cheaper place to live that got distilled down into destiny thinks all poor people should move from every single major city ox with uh noah noah what was that guy's name he's a liberal economist um or is this um this noah guy and um no opinion that's what he goes by no opinion anyway uh destiny then completely walks back the take and now it's about um people in the tech industry who make six figures but decide to live in penthouse apartments that cost six thousand a month and then complain about the rent that wasn't only what it was about it was about poor people with expensive houses that didn't have to pay taxes with them because of prop 13. not only was it not about that but oh my god did i not include the link noah 100 agreed with my opinion [ __ ] uppers are now on oh my god did i not i didn't have it [ __ ] i asked noah what his opinion is on prop 13 and he says you know what if you have a two million dollar house maybe you should just sell it because it sounds like you're doing okay which is one of the weird problems coming up in california where prop 13 has made it to the people with expensive houses don't have to pay property taxes essentially um [ __ ] i can't believe it i don't know i didn't clear that clip but he also claims i've changed my entire wait it's there oh maybe it's here down here sorry um he also claims i've changed my entire argument from claiming poor people should move to saying that wealthy tech bro should move into conversation i had with noah my initial argument was not to say that all poor people should move it was that people can't afford a particular area they live in should move to a cheaper apartment area as rent is going to be your largest expense many people in both mine and ian's community counter this by essentially saying that moving as a poor person is impossible a position i still disagree with harpers are now unironically saying stupid [ __ ] like oh no if you're poor you can literally never ever move it's impossible which is like just [ __ ] stupid it's beyond [ __ ] stupid so the argument people were giving is well what about the security deposits you can't move it's reeks of [ __ ] dumb [ __ ] college kid which is you first of all you get your security deposit back when you move and you you can't just never move and just die in your house or apartment because you can't afford another security deposit i did not walk back any housing position with noah we spoke about people being forced to move to high property taxes relating to prop 13 in california in which both of us agreed that the people living in houses should simply sell them and move prop 13 isn't seen as protecting wealthy people in california i think it's seen as a protection for relatively middle-class or working-class people in california who own property okay yeah so yeah so assuming no prop 13 yeah how do you prevent those people from being being displaced or should you should you just assuming nope yeah got it got it got it i made a bigger owners yeah are you pro owners yeah yeah million dollars you can't you have to move so we can build this train track no i mean you have to move because um so we'll say like in place california absent prop 13. you bought a 50 000 house now it's worth 2 million you can put the taxes on it you should sell it and move like how do you prevent displacing people like that yeah so i'm asking them how do you prevent people from being forced to move if you can't afford the property taxes in your house in california related to prop 13. right yeah yeah are you pro-profiting are you interested okay yeah so yeah so assuming no prop 13 yeah how do you prevent those people from getting displaced or should you should you just let them sell and leave or what i mean you your home is worth two million dollars now i you're you're okay [ __ ] okay you take your two million dollars just move uh but if you you know there's like a medium like maybe i didn't walk back any housing position with noah we spoke about people being forced to move due to high taxes due to high property taxes related to prop 13 in california in which both of us agree that people living in the houses should simply sell them and move the next day he references his own prior misrepresentations of my just move conversation to reinforce the idea that i'm classist if to cap it off i've said that like destiny's main issue is spite and that's true my criticism won't update you know it's not an insult because insults are something that i have to vary so that they can stay interesting but it's just the thing that he is so it's gonna remain the case i think another thing that he is um is a reactionary in the sense that he's classist which is worth bringing up everything from the just move thing the idea that like people who complain about how high rent is when they live in big cities should just move elsewhere even though big cities need people being paid wages for minimum wage remember so it's changed from people who complain about high rent from no no two people who literally rent from people can afford where they live subtle changes jobs in order to survive like if all the people who paid more than one third of their salary and rent in la just left l.a would collapse right because those people prop up la right it's a very stupid point like it's into me claiming that every poor person in la should move out of la i want you to understand like oh wait the city needs these people but it also doesn't provide them what they need to live there that is a problem here's the level one rejection against a stupid argument i would never make well destiny what are you gonna do with the city when all the poor people move yeah that's true that would be a pretty stupid thing of me to say huh but he reassigns that back to their poor decision making oh they should just move out to arkansas and live in a house that cost two dollars or whatever um that alongside his critiques of worker co-ops seeming to stem from him thinking workers are stupid which is what he said on twitter i think like two twitter accounts ago and like eighteen twenty birds ago um and later mike oh i should have included like this am i saying that workers were stupid i don't think workers should be put in charge of companies because i don't think the average line worker is going to understand the inner workings of like bureaucratic management for for companies not just that people are intrinsically dumb and they have worker brains can textualize this by saying like well you know anyone's stupid if you haven't been educated or whatever but i think that i think that deep down one of the holdovers from no not holdovers from one of the things that causes people to be libertarian which is what he was for the longest time was the deep sea of belief that you're better than everyone else and i think that's what motivated everything else that he's done and everything else that he's believed if that makes any sense he doesn't seem to care much about democracy because the people are stupid um you know any system uh which which enables democracy he doesn't like very much or or he seems to have some kind of innate disdain for the intelligence of the people in that system this is a most a misquote i don't know if i can have this later on but this is a misquote of an argument we had where i said that i don't know if democracy is effective for solving complicated problems because the problems that need to be solved are so complicated i don't know if the average citizen is has a good insight into help to solve them and examples i gave were things like climate change which is still probably somewhat true most of us like yeah i don't know most of us like the bait advocacy seems to be like the sort of aesthetic performative enjoyment of the ironic statement being smarter than the people you're talking to if that makes any sense you know i think that actually speaks to more than contrarians or whatever like i think that like that's one of the reasons why libertarianism is appealing but i think the only reason he moved off libertarianism isn't because his like fundamental ideology changed it's because he found a better system for being smarter than other people and of course serving very poorly with you know wise criticisms of worker co-ops like well what if they all just voted to raise their wages up super high you should reckon he claims that my credit systems of co-ops were what if they just vote to raise their wages high which was which is an absurd way of me getting across the idea that people running a business that they're also an expense of introduces a weird contradiction that the same person in charge of profitably running a business is also in charge of raising one of the expenses because there's a worker who's getting a salary that but i mean if he wants to phrase it that way you can do that but hold on i think i need to watch him with this oh wait [ __ ] i needed to watch for oh [ __ ] to cap it off i've said that like destiny's main issue is spike and then he does the super high you should react to destiny's critique of your debate with econ point i assume he went over the second one as well because he went over both debates with econ boy no doubt he seemed to have some legitimate criticisms worth addressing uh destiny had legitimate criticisms worth addressing what's the response um probably not you know that's sort of like looking for an apple in a sewage tank in terms of legitimate criticisms towards me from destiny uh seems highly unlikely i tend to i tend to get my advice from people uh who i haven't just left in the dust uh intellectually of course but if there are any criticisms or whatever you're free like email me i can give them a look i feel like all the empirical claims that i made were empirically we'll never engage with any um thing that i've said about him directly of course one criticism i said was that people um wait okay at 2 40 he even explicitly says that he doesn't want to address any criticisms i've given him so he'll never watch a video with my claims this doesn't prevent him from misrepresenting my views on his stream over and over again however one thing that i i don't know if i'd do this explicitly say this but like if somebody doesn't want to engage with things i've said whatever that's totally fine out like crowder and benchmark these people don't engage with things they say what i don't like is this dual world where they're like i'm not going to cover anything that cesar does but then they continue to straw man or misrepresent the [ __ ] out of me on their stream or youtube channel that's incredibly frustrating to me is having somebody say i'm not engaging i'm not engaging but then they'll continue to dole out these caricatures of me that are absolutely insane um one criticism i said was that people should not be moving to the most expensive cities in the us and that there were other cities you could move to for job hunting um so i think this had to do with some people were saying that like oh i need to live in la i need to live in san francisco because that's where the best jobs are and my argument was that you're not getting paid four or five times as much in these cities generally um so you're not getting a wage compensation to justify you moving to like the most expensive areas of the most expensive cities stated for how much it costs to live here this is why i said in the past people got mad at me and i'll say it again moved you get the [ __ ] out i don't know why the [ __ ] anybody would come to live in [ __ ] la portland seattle san francisco miami orlando [ __ ] new york i don't know why the [ __ ] anybody would move to these [ __ ] cities go somewhere else why move into one of these cities if you don't have like a promised huge paying job because it's so expensive there's no reason for it we're not talking about janitors or poor immigrants that already here we're talking about people that are choosing to move to these cities to work jobs that aren't really even compensating for how i believe how expensive it is to live there the part missing from that though is my parents grew up in a house in rural ohio and i don't wanna [ __ ] horizon manhattan that's what feels like the difference because all these people playing like they're four billion housing the cost of living wanna buy a [ __ ] so this has to do with people saying like boomers could afford homes boomers could have formed homes everywhere yeah they did but boomers bought homes all across the country millennials and zoomers want to live in 10 cities destiny right here is 1500 a month what the [ __ ] do you mean orlando wait are you talking about miami miami iran is hella expensive my dude i've stated in the past that i'm frustrated when people act like you can't move to a cheaper place to budget money better this isn't early texas police nonsense okay okay this kind of comment is getting updated on this thread budget better equals move are you trolling moving to a cheaper place can absolutely be part of budgeting i just i'm hold on i might be kind of sitting here i'm trying to become something now yes this is like this is what you do part of living in an apartment and managing your budget is sometimes you move to a cheaper apartment i don't know why that was so controversial even in my community do you not understand that do you think that all homes are immovable that you know just because you move it doesn't have to move to an entirely different [ __ ] planet right like you can move to oh this is slugprice typing this dumb [ __ ] [ __ ] oh [ __ ] i feel even better about banning you then what a dumb [ __ ] comment better budget much better are you trolling like your home expenses are one of the biggest part of your budget yeah of course like like what's next if i would say like maybe you should sell your car by something cheater cheaper oh stop selling my car better budgeting like what the [ __ ] else are you supposed to budget car payments on homepage it's like 50 of your [ __ ] monthly expenses at least 50 if not more what are you budgeting better like you have a coffee you buy what do you think it means to make a budget like when i see comments like this it reeks a [ __ ] rich college kid it's true i've literally explicitly spoken to ian about this exact conversation topic before and explained my exact position he backs off from his issue with my position and just moves to a your rhetoric is mean argument and with their situation or well it would be it would have to apply it would have to apply to so i was giving the advice that if you can't afford your current willingness sometimes you could downsize and then somebody said what you can't find another job and it's okay well if you can't find a job now and you're like if you're in a place you can't afford you can't have another job now like without appointment as it is you're pretty [ __ ] like there's nothing problematic yeah like if you're saying if that's if that's the group you're targeting everyone specific to that group of people people who do you understand that his response isn't really a response to anything i'm saying whether or not the person in chat was being reasonable is unrelated to the way in which your statements meaning is interpreted and the group of people that are being selected for the conditions you've set for your hyperbolic statement you're referring to unemployed people or more specifically if you want to be charitable unemployed people who are worried if they'll be able to find another job after they move and to say to those people what you've said i would consider that to to be frankly discriminatory in the same way that i would take umbrage with somebody who made a statement of comparable you know hyperbole about black people or trans people or whatever it's not well this isn't about it's not about black people or trans people it's not about some intrinsic characteristics the idea that you think if you can't move because it's impossible to find another job right now i find that statement to be a little bit ridiculous in response to the suggestion that you should move to a cheaper dwelling if you can't afford where you live that's the hyperbolic response i i don't i don't believe that it's fair to say that i was targeting all poor people with that reply in which case almost any reply that i make to a person that gives that reason why they can't move is going to be necessarily targeting like all class support people like somebody else is too expensive to move and i'm like listen dude you should have liked some friends it can help you it's 25 bucks to run a truck like oh well you attacking all poor people that can't make friends or all poor people that can't afford the 25 000 okay well like literally any response i give to this person going to be interpreted as an attack on the class of poor people but if you're making that statement without knowledge of the specific case the person is talking about with the specific living situation that they have you can only be making that statement in regards to whatever it is you're making response to it which is a person who wants to move is where they won't be able to find a job there's no interpretation of your statement that applies the hyperbole you engaged in to any group more specific because in general you should be able to find another job in this economy especially if you're working like a retailer now you're justifying it you're not saying no no no no no hold on hold on i'm not justifying that they should kill themselves not just fine verbally i'm saying that like find the sentiment what antagonism do you i mean would you like me to read it again again i'm not saying no you don't have to read in a dramatic voice in my quote i'm saying that if my advice to a person they can't afford where they currently live is to move and the response is well i'm not gonna be able to find another job like what are you gonna do at that point then you're [ __ ] there's nothing for you in life like it's over like like i don't understand what your mentality is at that point like you just give up and wait for your bills to catch up with you and then you get foreclosed on or you file bankruptcy like you have to move and like you should be able to find another job in this economy like that's that's where the that's the general like line of discourse like there's no other alternative other than unless you have a suggestion so let's say for one there are plenty of ways to express that sentiment without the can i can i not say the statement was antagonistic yeah of course it was but i mean like you've screened sure so eventually it backs off and said well you were antagonistic well you were kind of mean right so that's eventually where we wound up at but i've explained my position pretty deeply here but of course he always cites it again as like oh and he said that poor people should just move as like a response to all of our societal housing ills regardless if you regardless of if you agree with my state of positions or not it is insane to think that i've ever given the prescription that every single poor person should move out of every single huge city ian claims that i debated someone and called them a pedophile just for recommending do-it-yourself hrt says i have the same mental stability online as haas or hinkle two tankies apparently he was on uh he he he debated a person who does diy trans hrt stuff and called them like a pedophile or whatever in a very not conservative tendency of calling trans people pedophiles for trying to reach out to young trans people or whatever or chloe is chloe on twitter right the bob posting person or whatever i think that's it for her this is not why i called her a pedophile i called her a pedophile because she had a discord which she bragged about privately talking over 500 miners and getting them on hrt it's still a mistake by me but far different than calling every person who advocates for hrt for children a pedophile i had a conversation with taft where i explicitly state that i'm fine with do-it-yourself hormones the day before ian gives this take less dangerous form of drug use yeah i think i talked um i think i talked about this earlier where i said that like i don't necessarily have problems with the do-it-yourself hormones it was the culture of people online surrounding it that made me really uncomfortable and i gave that example of that one there's some crazy that was like bragging about like i've talked like seven miners this month i've gotten them doing something that felt like really weird to me if i were to draw a one-to-one comparison of drugs i think i would actually still feel pretty much the same i think there'd be a big difference between somebody online saying like i really want to try heroin you know what i did it versus somebody that's like i got some of my friends in heroin i'm so proud of myself for doing it like i think i think that the feeling there is a little bit different um and then i also say that like doing a drug i think is a bit different than using a drug to change an into an identity or to mention a gender expression i think these are fundamentally different things um but that even all that being said even though those two aspects are different um i don't think i'm opposed to do it yourself uh hormones like done in a reasonable sense i think like i said in some countries you're like a two-year waitlist for [ __ ] and that might be like too late for a lot of people um and if you do the research and do something fine then i think i'm okay with that i just get really weird about the culture around it so it's not i'm not against do-it-yourself hormones never said that ian refers back to the misrepresentation that i call chloe a pedophile because she advocates for kids being able to get on hrt um meanwhile destiny has not only said but maintained for months that a friend of kefl's is a pedophile because she advocates for like trans kids being able to get on hrt like calling a trans woman a pedophile because she's advocating for trans children's rights to like get access to hormones is literally a far-right talking point i've stated multiple times before this ian rant that i am in favor of people pursuing do-it-yourself hrt if other options aren't available somebody wanted me to go through those like five minutes segment okay i i've defended multiple times the concept of access to hormones for underage people i don't think that's a bad thing it seems like curious block is a really good thing if you've got people that are disorganized i don't think that's answered about that should have been more research yeah of course but in the meantime if people are prescribed that's fine also i understand and recognize that there are rare cases where we're not even necessarily rare but there might be cases where children don't have access to those drugs and they've got to resort to like great market stuff otherwise maybe they're going to be on waiting lists for like two [ __ ] years and where you're at i understand that as well the only thing that i said was it was really [ __ ] weird to tweet out and brag about the fact you've got over 500 miners sex drugs that's really [ __ ] weird to me i don't trust some random [ __ ] twitter to be having responsible conversations like that to be doing the amount of due diligence they need to with zero [ __ ] oversight like that's just really [ __ ] weird to me [Music] i don't get anything wrong with helping miners get hrt but when you're bragging about it like that that's pretty sussy pretty sassy baka my positions on this are so clear but people still think i'm against it because of the things that posh says ian is upset here because he claims my community and i gaslight people into believing i said or did different things than i actually said but like destiny his community will do anything or say anything about any people and justify it and they'll gaslight you into thinking that you were the one who wronged him because they have a massive victim complex it's [ __ ] pathetic this is because what i claim i've said never lines up with what ian claims i've said because he's often engaging in bad faith when quoting my views if you're a member of wash's community it probably does feel like i'm gaslighting you when i say i haven't done these things or they're being misrepresented because vosh literally does this to me constantly i i will never match the caricature or the the simulacra that he's created to represent who i am i will never align with that because that is an object a caricature created with no reference to anything i've ever said or done oh [ __ ] i actually i've never seen this tweet before i don't even know how old this is apparently april january february march april oh maybe the the chloe person might actually be better faith than i that i thought um apparently chloe's even said that my takes on do-it-yourself hrt are okay his takes were pretty we're actually pretty okay okay whatever wash is still white knighting on behalf of them though because he's trying to win back credit with that community after being like considered transphobic for so long ian claims that my subreddit literally acts like kiwi farmers and makes fun of their lack of adherence to reality inter i should have made a whole title called projection you can look over at like destiny's subreddit and there are people over there like they literally act like kiwi farmers that's not a joke you're free to go and look at destiny subreddit they just act like they're free to go and look but he'll never show you kiwi farmers you can compare um they don't use slurs the way kiwi farmers do sometimes but in terms of their behavior and their seeming like adherence to reality they're pretty much on board with that so adherence to reality this is extra ironic given that ian subreddit is the one that was dinged by the admins for harassment that's still true and you have no idea what kiwi farms a banned term this is literally a banned term in my chat is if you think my community acts like kiwi farmers not even close ian claims i was banned from twitch because my community took a hard right shift again with no evidence of shifting beliefs or anything now destiny's community has taken a hard like a pretty right-wing shift for a long time it's probably one of the reasons he got banned from twitch he will constantly say that i'm spite driven work is functional i can engage with them and we can disagree and they can be pushed into something more ethical you know like the tools are there and destiny is like this and i hope you all will forgive me for saying this a brilliant person and very funny but he is so consumed by his emotional state when he feels hateful it just obliterates the processes that that that i ever liked about him and that's become more and more like what drives so much of his behavior yes you know what i mean um so and and and by how hard he's falling off plus elbows ratio now i have no interest in going over him did he pose any like 2008 was the fault of i don't know only playing telephone there we go it's always classism his politics are always going to be about supplementing his ego by finding avenues through which he can demonstrate to himself that he's smarter than other people classism is the most socially acceptable venue for him to do this but i'm fairly confident that in a different world he would be just as comfortable doing it through racism ironic coming from communities that defend and use racial slurs against me because they found a one that they can use destiny walked backwards in israel palestine if you're talking still and turns low i was the person to talk to him what did destiny walk back with specific position the only reason destiny had to take on the israelite thing is because he they're not the positions that left his head it's the only thing okay like it's like the whole world agrees that israel isn't wrong for doing palestine and then destiny goes on twitter and he's like guys it's complicated you're making it sound like not violence coming from palestine too it's like the allies matter you know imagine if like the united states of america sounds like you understand they're still black violence on cops people still died black people he never really gives any clear evidence or examples of me changing positions out of spite my views on certain things have naturally evolved over time but not to the right on some things i moved a bit left on like trans issues and on a lot of procedural things i've been moved a bit like the electoral college gerrymandering citizens united et cetera but none of these are generally shifts to the right flosh in the past has agreed as much saying that my shift is generally in rhetoric and not policy position implementation okay so then when i so then when i ask you like i'm because i'm curious what political views have changed it's not really my political views it's just you think my rhetoric has gotten more pointed in it in a certain direction to it be more antagonistic towards a certain part of the political spectrum rather than what it was before the view you've uh switched on the most because it is mostly how you approach politics more so than your actual hard work what is my approach changing how oh well well i just talked about that how you've gotten bad faith and how you're justified by talking about how other conflicts i'm sorry so when i think about politics when i think about political positions i'm thinking so i'm not saying that you're wrong this is just where my mind is because we have a disconnect here so if you're saying my politics has changed in so far as like how i approach certain groups online i agree with that 100 but in terms of like my actual policy position or the political position that i sincerely and with a lot of heart argue out against other people do you think those have changed over the past year or two years one of them two of them very big ones yeah they're probably others but again i don't have a list of them okay switch ones i think i just want to clarify that you described earlier is infinitely more important than actual policy positions okay then so he thinks that the rhetoric part is more important than the policy positions even ian's own community completely saw through his rhetoric about the palestine claim his subreddit also provided a better more precise criticism of my spite driven arguments though i responded to those criticisms here um let's see destiny challenges watch to debate oh so we were going to debate and then he got really scared about the palestine israel stuff probably because he doesn't know anything about it and that was when i don't think i put the clip in here but he had that really weird was like what why would i debate him on that oh wait it might have been this clip actually um also pretty sure vosh misremembered destiny's combo with dylan because they did not agree on everything in fact they had a slightly heated debate because they didn't agree on multiple things about the israeli-palestinian conflict have you seen destiny's invitation didn't he say debating on palestine or housing policy or something what no i i i saw a clip that was provided um i don't even know if we disagree on palestine israel i had a conversation with dylan burns and it seemed like we agreed on pretty much everything and destiny also had a convo with dylan bird seemed like pretty much agreed in everything i feel like destiny and i would have the same opinion on this if he wasn't obsessed with triggering the lefties on twitter and as for the housing policy am i going to debate him on whether he backpedaled in a conversation with another per no what ridic that'd be a waste of time for for both of us i mean what would that even be no writing a jesus example i'm saying something's just a statement just fire back up you've seen where we're working after you see what's in all those positions we're going with him but i'm just going to say anyway i can't run around with your pronouns so this guy makes a good post this is actually a really good post in washington and it made me think about um how i view why people think i'm spy driven i think i actually got a lot of insight into it because of this host on the bosch subreddit which is basically him saying the reason i think it was um the reason why people perceive me as changing my policy positions is because based on who i'm fighting at the time i'll kind of like represent a different shade of an argument so like for instance if i'm arguing about like trans rights and i'm talking to kefl's somebody might think that oh my god he's an alt-right conservative but if i'm arguing with like a trump fan people are going to think i'm like kefl's um this guy made a huge post about this which i thought was interesting i remember how it's fun to enter this video but i think i go over my response to it here um i hope i bring up that citizens united thing comes up again right i think so i hope it does um ian claims i bully trans people on twitter he then talks about how he followed synth on twitter then unfollowed her because she was a dgd stan but then re-followed her once she became critical of me again i don't know it's whatever would you consider his take on trans athletes actually transphobic i don't know his t i don't know i only see him on twitter like bullying trans people and like i only see trans like little trans accounts like going private or like freaking out because they get like transphobes in their comment replies because destiny quote tweeted them and a ton of far right people follow destiny on twitter for like targets to like engage with you know what i mean i don't really know yeah just i don't know this community's gotten pretty far right oh it's so like in their comment replies because i only see trans like little trans athletes actually transphobic i don't know i don't know i only see them on twitter like bullying trans people and like i only see trans like accounts like going private or like freaking out because they get like transphobes in their comment replies because destiny to them and a ton of far right people follow destiny on twitter for like targets to like engage with you know what i mean i don't really know yeah just i don't know this community's gotten pretty far right oh you know uh danny or i think synth was here is her name um i followed her for a while on twitter before unfollowing her because she was an insufferable like stan um but then i re-followed her on stream actually because of a horse dick joke you know i'm consistent um destiny like banned her from his chat a couple of days ago because she was pointing out that his behavior was attracting like a far-right audience that was engaging in transphobia unironically and she just got banned for that okay am i misremembering or did he not say like banned for posting child pornography i do all that in my chat always like banned for child porn that means don't unban and i'm pretty sure he knows that because he's a huge fan of my stream for a long time but um it's kind of funny that well i unfollowed her because she was a dgg stamp and i followed her once she had a falling out i do bully trans people on twitter but because they're stupid not because they're trans i bully everyone on twitter it's a bit ironic given that ian has demonstrated the same frustration with minority groups getting more space for arguments and held to lower standards to this if we care about introspection you have to give me more than professor flowers didn't say the things she said because she said other things that weren't the things she said i need more than that should i should i take everyone then if there were every criticism uh mel the genocide denier is this is this a person for whom i must hold water luna a nationalist i mean where does that line stop it seems to stop a lot farther out with minority groups than it does with white people it's a concern that i've noticed and if you i'm sure understand from your presence on the online left that there is often a performative uh what would you call it a performative um giving of space to minority groups not to say it's not good to do that but a performative one one which is about um you know virtue signaling essentially um i think it's an issue uh because it means those people are being held to a lower standard with regards to the quality of their perspectives when all of us of course should be subject to criticism for things that we say interesting it's a bit ironic given that ian has demonstrated the same frustration with minority groups getting more space for argument to the lower standards he's even said the exact same thing by the online trans communities as recently as september of 2021. so wait hold on one more time just so we can get all the arguments now that you have the full context okay the left community online particularly the lgbt community is cancerous as [ __ ] if you're not an idiot you will agree with me on this if you have any [ __ ] experience with online like lgbt or leftist discourse you know it's cancerous as [ __ ] so i i do still think this is true i probably wouldn't phrase it in this way and in the broader context of ufc but the statement on its own here i think it's true so you know whatever synth has essentially admitted to just clout farming me for followers and constantly farms my dgg community for only fan subscriptions she's literally said synth ha i see the thread and what you wrote to him first of all why did you write to him like that you know he does that then you continue to address um attack him um just log off or delete twitter at this point if it makes you feel so bad he says every time his new twitter drama is sort of you attack him he shoots back he doesn't care about your problems since says oh i know i'm clout-firming him he should attack me more so that i can get more clout it gives me more money someone says dog if you're having actual panic attacks over the [ __ ] and still goating it on it makes it look like you're lying about everything hmm and then these are logs where every time after drama should come into chat post nudes sub to my only fans i need money i have an only fan if you just want to spend money on me some of my only fans i post every day please sub to me i'm poor and i'll love you forever also if you want to sub now i have actual content daily others seem to attempt to cloud farm off of fights with me too um netiquska or whatever this weird person comes into my chat to make a comment and then immediately bothers me flips a video out of it publishes on their channel then runs to ian to have a conversation about the about the event this person has their own incredibly contentious past changing their name from scrims slash nethorics after allegations came out of them encouraging fans as young as 12 to send them nude pictures none of this mattered though feuding with feuding with me just feuding with me was enough to get a follow a coveted follow from both ian and kethels both of them followed netiqa after they had their fight with me wow not spite driven though ian uncritically reads a comment from his chat doesn't bother to fact check leads to misinterpreting my views to his audience he tries to claim that he doesn't like playing telephone but he'll move on to character assassination as though the prior claims were true let's go over destiny's coverage unfolding ideas nft video he took issue with folding ideas nft video wait real quick let me check something he goes on an unhinged rant about how 2008 was the fault of the people taking the loans and was hostile right from the get-go he goes on an unhinged rant about how in 2008 it was the fault of people taking the loans and does a lot of classes [ __ ] he couldn't finish the vid because his orbiters went on a stream to call him out really true consistently astonished by how hard he's fallen off plus l plus ratio it's interesting that he almost pretends to have a moniker good faith here was that really true he is [ __ ] evil no i have no interest in going over him maulding did he did he pose any like 2008 was the fault of i don't know only playing telephone there we go it's always classism his politics are always going to be about supplementing his ego by finding avenues through which he can demonstrate to himself that he's smarter than other people classes this is the now he just off of the last chatter's comment we'll go on to talk about how i'm a classist without even evaluating whether anything i said before was actually said my original take regarding the housing crisis was that the incentives were bad for every single actor in the housing market and that everyone acted with impropriety not that it was solely the fault of homeowners reality is is everything he's saying is oh [ __ ] it's correct there were bad like the bank's incentives here were perverse the credit rating agencies probably did [ __ ] up when they were waiting for these bonds this hall and center stretch was probably bad but people also bought homes they couldn't afford like consumers would dumb as [ __ ] as well now if you want to preface this by saying and you know what i probably would say you know what i'm not going to blame consumers at all because i expect consumers to be literal brain dead monkey aches that respond so incredibly particularly financial incentives if i were to pay them for some of their [ __ ] children's kidneys and sure that's fine that's probably true but it's just not true bring it up at all and make it like all the only people in anyone because there's a bunch of poor no there were people looking to get rich quick which was a lot of true for them to get their first home and they couldn't rightfully afford which was a lot of them and they got caught in the middle of the bubble with their pants down and they got [ __ ] by the bubble pop as well now we can say that we expect the average to be a dumb [ __ ] which is fine again i'll do that but to totally leave that out is a little like they had a lot they stood to gain a lot as well from this whole [ __ ] crisis just as true a lot of consumers did stand to gain a lot and did gain a lot in the housing crisis same as the banks had perverse incentives to sell mortgages that they knew people couldn't afford people also had incentives to take mortgages that they couldn't afford knowing that they could flip the house later because of how insane the housing market was with a constant increase of housing prices that's solely blaming and i even say here that yeah it's probably not the majority fault of consumers because you don't expect consumers to be incredibly financially savvy now i think i said not like dumb [ __ ] whatever but that is true it's not solely the fault of homeowners no one else can hear this fast wait was that too quick you're fine you should get used to hearing me talk fast [ __ ] you ian has claimed that mr girl is a pedophile and that my community and i defend him because i'm becoming like sargon of akkad who defended ammo c he's claimed several times that my community is full of pedophile defenders uh destiny early christmas morning was in my subreddit defending that mr girl pedophile guy against my fans can you flip houses without repaying your loan kind of yes because you're gaining a massive amount of equity if i buy a hundred thousand hundred thousand dollar house and a year later that house is worth two hundred thousand dollars i can move up or buy another house by selling that one i get a hundred thousand dollars in equity that i've gained because of the appreciation of the underlying asset and then i can flip that loan and make a ton of money off of it yeah defending uh pedophiles is just part of destiny's path on to becoming identical to 2016 sargent of akkad you know maybe maybe they're maybe they're jumping sort of jumping on that horse a little bit faster does he say this yeah there are a lot of people apparently over and over why don't you post the debate the main channel because the the debate oh yeah the destiny community seems to engage in some kind of fetishization of the idea of owning your takes and like being forthcoming and biting the bully which is interesting to me because they never seem to feel that way about anything demon has ever done you know demon mama bites like crazy she owns positions that i disagree with with remarkable tenacity so do a lot of very left people on twitter you know there are tons of lefties who will instantly buy bullets on stuff that the destiny crowd disagrees with but do they say hey i disagree with you but i'm impressed by how well you buy the bullet does destiny's community ever look at a left-leaning person like an anarchist or whatever and go well i disagree with you but i am impressed by how you know how consistent you're being and even though your values are different you know i think that the you know your abilities are just telling this good they don't do that but if you're a pedophile if you're talking about how you want to [ __ ] 10 year olds now that's something that god respect for it's just anti-left spite that's really all there is to it mr girls never said he wants to [ __ ] 10 year olds by the way this is particularly this is a particularly silly example given at a massive debate and disagreement with amazing an actual pedophile and never defended his point of view well i had a pretty big debate with omoc i completely disagreed with him the entire time it's also annoying when ian himself has made some fairly edgy jokes surrounding pedophilia a modular sex spot with adaptable components from the waist down it's 26 from the stomach up it's 12. hanami can ride its dick while dessa dorada [ __ ] it or does it erode desiderida i don't know if i'm saying [ __ ] its face i will draw this everyone is happy i will not actually draw this okay next question simulated lolly lolly stuff uh i think it's pretty saucy i think that if you have an interest in that sort of stuff you should definitely be checking yourselves to why you know like uh the the thing that really bothers me about this [ __ ] apart from the fact that anytime you want to look at like hentai on a hentai site you have to like negate the tag lolly and thus 50 of the site's content the thing that bothers me is people who pretend there's no relationship whatsoever between like drawn lolly [ __ ] and actual attraction to children because of course there's a relationship between those things ridiculous to pretend otherwise so they need to be aware of that if anything nice right now we've all jerked at the lolly at some point or another we've all well you don't have a penis we have all that's we have at some point in our lives been going [ __ ] crazy in some hentai site and we've been [ __ ] str stroking as hard and fast as we can and then after we not we go back look over our history chat and we go like oh jeez oh boy some of these girls looked pretty young okay i don't give a [ __ ] all right okay next question simulated child lolly lolly stuff uh i think did i like the same thing twice oh it's the same like ian claims i am a creepy obsessed stalker in the same way that anna was a stalker to me seemingly ignoring the fact that we're both large content creators occupying a very similar space talking about the same political issues that's the destination i don't know anything about it i know that she's like some creepy stalker whatever everything i've seen from anna frills makes me think she's like legit like creepy as [ __ ] like super super bad i will say that given the fact that destiny's behavior towards me has been pretty unironically creepy too i do find it funny you know washes living in the mirror dimension yeah maybe that like uh it would hold water on something like that but not reflect in his own behavior apparently i um i'm stalking him he concept of chattering up destiny not really i mean he's destiny's clear only goal is streaming right now what do you think so when he wakes up and falls asleep is to get my attention he can cry about that assessment if he wants but holy mother of god i've never had a content creator obsess over me that much outside of maybe like kiwi farms and jason types who like every day they'd stream for six hours saying like this is why bosch is worse than hitler except if there wasn't that bad really you know historical data yeah it's like stalker ships really [ __ ] weird you know i'm just stalking this out of political commentators my [ __ ] is sucking me please make him stop please i just want to say things unchallenged i don't want any critical analysis i'm saying please just stop talking about me like when he jumped onto a panel to talk with me and then like he spent the remaining two hours of the paper i jump onto panels at night all the time to argue with people by the way i used to do that all the time on twitch a lot of people my chat would realize that like 2 a.m like what the [ __ ] does a panel it wasn't just because he was well because he was saying stupid things on it but any time i hear somebody anywhere saying dumb [ __ ] on a panel that i can hop on to i always hop on bowling silently like just sitting there because because the rest of the panel was started asking questions like how big of a dick would you suck it belong with your dad okay that was true and awkward ian would reference this claim again in a few weeks saying that me covering his content is me being creepy and burying the hatchet thing isn't gonna happen i i find it weird when you guys say stuff like that because i don't know like he's he's like a creepy stalker it's it's not like we have a few petty disagreements that we could overcome for the good of the left it's he has relentlessly gone out of his way to be like creepily like like borderline attempting to be abusive abusive calling me creepy and abusive ian claims that my defensive citizens united is that it's complicated he said he was big words yesterday said sam cedar in the coast the majority report makes [ __ ] up at citizens united well he's like really on defending citizens united i've seen his defense of it too he's like well don't you know it'd be complicated for us to not have citizens united lefties don't understand it's complicated all lefties have a very simplistic understanding of citizens united as opposed to my very nuanced take which is that citizens united is complicated and i don't know how things could ever be any other way even though things were another way for a very long time and then changed but i don't know how they could ever have been any other way you guys have seen him am i am i summing that up correctly that's his take on citizens united right citizens united is a complicated case but that's not the only thing i've said about it i've discussed the issues surrounding the case multiple times on stream even with educated people about it i've had lots of conversations related to citizens united obviously the dumbest this is eaton hirsch the author of public superpower he came in to talk about like a lot of complicated politicians political issues i'm gonna watch like every time i've talked about it but like yeah i've had like a lot of conversations about um uh stuff related to scissors unit and the complicatedness of figuring out lobbying and super pacs and you know who should be able to advertise what and you know was the bipartisan act or whatever was it okay like though but the ultra ironic thing is ian literally agreed with me that it's a complicated case that's hard to decide to citizens united because i hate it i really do i just don't see a way around it i [ __ ] the constitution no no i don't know i don't have the concept i don't [ __ ] the constitution but like when you're saying that like any type of advertising that you do it could be pro or against a certain campaign when you say that we're going to ban that type like around an election season is that something that you're intrinsically okay with that like extended like our streams like how do you reconcile that in your head we draw the line curious so that's a really tough one i acknowledge i and i agree with people who say this more nuanced issues than a lot of leftists will give credit for i think that right now the consequences of citizens united are disastrous i think literally says it's a more complicated issue than what most leftists will give a credit for almost verbatim my take but then later on will roast me for the same thing ian admits that he didn't watch my debate with the surfs tv and completely misrepresents my argument about google requiring trans people to wear dead names on their badges claiming i just didn't think it was a big deal to deadname people after literally saying he didn't even watch the debate stupid i actually didn't watch his debate with lance the other day did you know this is by the way i'm totally poisoned in the well here but did you know while debating with lance lance was making the argument that like google had was still like reactionary or whatever you know okay um uh uh lance pointed out that at google you need to get a legal name change if you're trans for your name card to be updated so if you're a trans lady and you've got michael on your name card like you need a legal name change for them to confirm the change in the thing and destiny i swear to god i actually look the double checks make sure it's real destiny um he said is that really a big deal so it's just or be on the truly be on the pail here bit on the left um anyway i didn't break my rule because i was on that panel for two hours before he jumped on my argument here has to do with the idea that you probably can't just put whatever name you want on a name badge for security purposes example google where while google puts the uh you know the rainbow logo on their their icons all kind of stuff they are actively forcing their employees to have to use dead names on their id tags if they haven't been able to change them for whatever reason usually economically through the state level so that's amazing pretty [ __ ] up so i think how is that incredible forcing employees to use dead names if they haven't gotten a change with the state my guess is this is probably a policy almost everywhere right how do you have people that just give whatever name they want if it's not registered anywhere with the state body i don't i'm generally asking i don't know i've never heard of this issue but that's not like common sense to me of course you have to buy your state registered name because it's it's okay first off it's not something that everything's no person can afford right the ability to change your name is usually something that's privileged people can afford to do that secondly the id tags themselves we're not talking about just verification badges we're talking about what they have to wear as part of their like their everyday it was something that was like spread around through the alphabet union written now okay your company badge doesn't mean [ __ ] right like i'm not talking about like if you work at google you should okay also i don't know if i bring this up but i hate that your company badge doesn't mean [ __ ] um i have very limited corporate experience and even i know that like at the casino your badge is your id thing sometimes you use it to swipe into places security will look at your name tag at the casino if you swap badges with somebody you got caught for that you would get fired instantly it would be you'd be fired you just get fired you can't you can't swap your name badge um those badges have some and i'm sure they're probably even more sophisticated now because this was back in like 2008 but be able to afford a name change okay number one okay number two oh even if you can't like i'm sorry but like in terms of how security and everything works you probably need to have like actual name badges and [ __ ] like i'm sorry like i don't i don't know how you can think that you can just not do that like there's so many things here like okay what if they just got hired for example like they've just started they're not making the google salary yeah they've just gotten the job of their dreams they also don't want to be called by their dead names anymore because that [ __ ] really [ __ ] with them then unfortunately i'm sorry i know that it's everybody's dream to work at google but i guess you're one of the one percent of the one percent who was able to get whatever prerequisite education or computer back when you needed but don't have the money to change your name so wait a month or two or save up i don't know like this is such a weird also what is the how much does it cost to change your name it's got to be like 100 bucks or something maybe maybe it's more than that i don't know hill to die on like you can resolve this after working google for two or three months it sounds like such a non issue like well okay well this is one of the reasons why i think the music probably depends on the state you live and i would guess oh 400 in california okay maybe in some states it's more expensive my argument here has to do the idea that you probably can't just put whatever name you want on a name badge for security purposes the extra irony about this is that it ended up not being googled at all who required this it was a security company that google was subcontracting for security work so the company that was doing it was actually a security g4s that did security it was a company that did security the name tag is probably pretty important there that would be my guess but remember ian's summary of that conversation that lance by the way would actually concede to me at the end because he didn't even know who was being impacted that it was a subcontractor of google that did security um i'm pretty sure uh lance considered me the end of that um this was ian's summary of that take of mine stupid i actually didn't watch his debate with lance the other day did you know this is by the way i'm totally poised in the well here but did you know while debating with lance lance was making the argument that like google had was still like reactionary or whatever okay um uh lance pointed out that at google you need to get a legal name change if you're trans or your name card to be updated so if you're a trans lady and you've got michael on your name card like you need a legal name change for them to confirm the change in the thing and destiny i swear to god i actually look the double checks make sure it's real destiny um he said is that really a big deal i'm sorry just whatever ian claims i only bring up negative experiences to get dunks on other people because i brought up byron suicide in an argument about why social workers can be scary to people who have been committed to mental institutions before the funniest thing though is how obviously mad he gets when people like take sympathy for his negative experiences because it's very clear he only brings up his negative experiences to get dunks on other people and not because he actually wants to share in any empathy with the situation i don't want people treating you like a victim for anything ever i've said that a million times before and that's not even an uncommon experience for people that have been victims of different types of things i don't know how you could say something so mind-numbingly [ __ ] clueless like that because it's very clear he only brings up his negative experiences to get dunks in other people and not because he actually wants to share in the empathy of the situation like how he brought up reckful suicide the suicide of a close friend of his to me as part of an argument that uh social workers are scarier than police officers when doing mental health checks that's a real thing that happened by the way ian claims only bring this up to get dunks on other people i brought up byron suicide an argument about why social workers can be scared of people who've been committed to mental in mental institutions i was not bringing this up for a dunk i was bringing it up to reinforce why social workers can be so scary to people ian later claims i'm making stuff up regardless professionals because they are so [ __ ] afraid of being committed to an institution that's why byron jumped out to the [ __ ] window kill himself instead of trying to find more help because he had one bad experience where he was committed to a mental institution he never wanted to talk to anybody it wouldn't surprise me i know that they can but i don't know most people know that it wouldn't surprise me somebody saw it you can laugh all you want but i don't think that most people still bring you to the hospital for the day ian misrepresents my contention with philosophy tube claiming i was only upset because she implied she needed to go on a runner strike he even brings up the exact same bernie sanders comparison that i shot down in our prior conversation asked i know we talked a little bit about your earlier debates with destiny but out of the one out of your modern debates with destiny pick one what do you think is a highlight what do you think you could have done better it would definitely be the one over philosophy too i think because how stupid it was destiny was was arguing that philosophy to abigail was uh was a uh a hypocrite and like destroying the left or whatever because she advocated that people go on a renter strike in a way that implied that she also needed to go on a renter strike even though she makes a decent amount of money which is like like imagine if bernie sanders said we need a workers revolution and destiny was like we bernie sanders you're a millionaire why are you lying to your fans by suggesting that they need it as much as you do like that's literally the tear that was on so that's uh literally the tier that was on i had literally already had a conversation about this where he agreed with me that philosophytube's tweet was unsafe endemic ignoring the fact that they're literally doing this to somebody that is probably making far less money than they do um i don't necessarily have an issue with people calling for a rent strike and using collective languages that's not what we're talking about i do think that it's bad that they hide their income though i think that's the big definer here i think that if you show your income then i think that's totally this is not what i'm saying is is she is making it sound like she literally like won't be paying rent due to the pandemic ignoring the fact that the landlord makes less than them i would say that this is a trick into making somebody think that they're on their side this is what i'm referring to i think my first statement is what wouldn't she be on their side i mean she's a lefty what do you mean is she not as in has the same struggles has the same class problems has the same like problem affording rent when that's not the case there is definitely an implication here that they can't afford their rent that i do find a good unsavory this is why i really wish they would show their income but the general like we should do x language i think it's perfectly acceptable stop i don't think we're you you made a comparison i have to do this because i can't let you get the rhetorical wins i'm sorry because you're why are you accusing me of attorneys because you are because you're doing no no no no no no no no you might not realize i'm listening for it now i'm hearing it more okay earlier you use the comparison of bernie sanders when bernie says something like we need free healthcare we need free blah blah blah bernie sanders is not presenting himself as a fellow poor in fact i'm almost positive that i've heard bernie sanders say i think word for word the average american should have the same healthcare that i have in the senate i'm pretty sure he said that word for word i think i've heard say that so you're comparing yes so this is why i'm calling these because it's a disingenuous comparison when bernie sanders says we need to do this that's different i don't think bernie sanders would come out and say we need to go on strike and stop paying our mortgage i'm writing a letter to my landlord saying i'm not going to pay the mortgage i don't think bernie sanders would [ __ ] say that right that's what i'm saying that's what i'm talking about you can try to divert okay but abigail's tweet here come by abigail tweet here abigail's tweet here is not comparable to bernie sanders statement abigail's tweet here is a trick into thinking that she is on your side that is my first statement i think it has been sufficiently justified i don't like the use of the term your side because it implies that she has malicious intent or politically disagrees if you wanted to say the language of this tweet gives the mis it gives the mistaken impression that she's struggling more financially than she probably actually is then i think i would agree with that would you mind this tweet if she had her income publicly known it was something that she referred to so he essentially agrees with my complaint here but then he will misrepresent it later saying using the exact same bernie sanders analogy that i literally shoot down in my exact conversation with him ian claims i've only attacked demon mama vermin and conyer because they're in his community here to target because he'll be that desperate i mean he's literally done that he's attacked people in my community because they're in my community when he attacks demon mama it's always you know framed in reference to me like oh you're you're my thrice descendant because you come from walsh and vosh comes from me uh my first conversation with demon mom had nothing to do with vosh it had to do with language being used on twitter this is this my second conversation with demon mama had to do with her trying to paint to scrub king as an incel it had nothing to do with ian my issues with his ex-girlfriend and roommate had to do with them constantly calling me names calling me a rapist and trying to get me banned from twitch every day i'm more and more certain that rapestany hates trans people which real quick real quick we have just done a stock on our own site the only time this is the word rape at all was talking about uh was talking about a story that happened to them so once again [ __ ] liar literally making up nonsense just making it up he just made it up once again as always caught in four [ __ ] k oh you checked further they called destiny uh rapes to me three days ago i don't [ __ ] care that is not that is not an accusation of rape i'll watch that clip as many times i can ian claims i've kicked him out of my community because he was a lefty this is explicitly why i went about the sexual harassment allegations in the way that i did to avoid exactly this type of bias untrue claim systems that leading people do now i would argue that characterization is very disingenuous to begin with but whatever we're not here to talk about destiny he's been trying to purge lefty elements from his community some think that my ex decision from the community has something to do with that and by some people i mean me i think that i think that he acted uncharitably towards me because he was sick of having left us in his community and i was a well-known leftist in his community that's true he was a well-known leftist which is exactly why i went about that confrontation in the exact way that i did to avoid exactly those types of claims ian claims we were never friends your relationship with destiny is kind of cute and sad it's only sad if you have some weird social thing dusty and i were never friends i like [ __ ] posting in this chat i kind of probably always will but it's not like some weird emotional thing it's really funny chad cares more about the vosh destiny relationship that dwash does yeah it's it's but that's a consequence of parasocial this seems like it's probably not true um there's like a lot of like random comments that he's made over time destiny called you his buddy well destiny calls everyone buddy so the real sad city stuff they're the real depressed content is that in the one of the later youtube videos that was made from the vod of me discussing stuff with destiny um he uh he had like some really flattering what was it exactly hold on where i had flattering things to say about him and he's happy about it this was from 2017 i think yeah talking with my buddy irish lady this is one of my really left-leaning buddies a full-on anti-capitalist sociology major i always appreciate my conversations with this guy as he can present his thoughts very concisely and we disagree on quite a bit really respectful you know really gary cipher that's actually pretty cute yeah before i wrote that oh that was cute oh um wash one of the first few times i heard about you i thought you two were school oh cute in terms of me complimenting him um destiny it's your friend want to play league together maybe that's just a meme comment i guess um he would like draw comics of us this feels really weird now i'm sorry but maybe that's just a meme um he would post pictures of us together now i do feel like anna um and he would draw extensive comics of us together um friendstony now maybe that was also just a meme thing who knows um but we were never friends that's just a weird parasocial thing he's claimed over and over and over again that i am classist and have no solutions for anything despite the fact that i religiously go over policy or research on stream constantly i don't think i have to watch him calling me class so we already heard him do it like three times notice how when i say we've already heard that we've actually watched the video and heard him say it and i'm not just referring to a false character that i've said with no evidence this is also extra ironic as ian has admitted many of his solutions only exist so long as a socialist revolution happens he also tries to gaslight me in this very same convo claim you didn't bring up my net worth to attack my positions productivity you have no policy suggestions why would you accuse me of that because i don't think solutions need to only be policy based i think that broader ideological movements can also be a great way of changing the way connections broader ideological movements helps the climate change well a popular socialist movement would probably lead towards um a great deal of class antagonism that might manifest in some way in the ability to elect poorly restrict some of these businesses that happened back at the turn of the century back in the 1900s 2000's oh sorry oh [ __ ] i fell asleep i'm sorry why are you waiting for yourself to understand that i'm having a conversation with you i'm not bringing this up when you're saying you're wrong you you you are throwing my net worth that means i should set oh he's just saying oh i just brought up your net worth i wasn't saying that that makes you a classist or anything that vosh is just another white liberal whatever [ __ ] you did say you brought up my net worth in some way this is just a personal thing okay so so wait i don't think it's a matter of being to me i think it's just a fact that people's material circumstances influence how they tend to behave whether that be okay so we're in the same we're in the same class then dog so what does that say about your utopia or your ideas about your class or whatever well it would mean that if i did end up making a tremendous amount of money or more ian claimed i was only victim blaming when talking about the prime kai's allegations and that all of my arguments were conspiratorial he also alleges that if you're in a work if you're a workplace victim of sexual harassment you have power over your boss destiny came on and i'll get this out of the way now because i know everyone wants my opinion destiny and dylan argued for about three hours and there was basically nothing distinguishing destiny's behavior from that of a common victim blamer uh his arguments were bad if eloquently delivered he came in to discredit and attack cat he did so with all the standard tropes you know she strung him along by not being forthcoming about his harassment uh she's clout sharking you know she actually liked him so he got mixed signals yeah he actually said it was women tactics at one point at one point he actually said if you're a victim of workplace sexual harassment you have power over your boss like if your boss harasses you and you're a woman which that's some content creator skull if i've ever heard it but this is a gross mischaracterization of what i said which was in fact that cat the woman involved knew prime was going um was into was into her and admitted to playing along to further her career which does indeed make the situation more complicated the work relationship without turning them down or to continue to work is the worker manipulating the boss then i don't know you have to look into it it's pretty complicated um it's it could that could go either way generally it's bad at the boss to proposition an employee that's almost always the case it's almost always the case that the boss shouldn't proposition the employee bad um but in terms of like how it actually plays out like i don't know the problem is that prime was hitting on katarina by her own admission from the moment they started interacting and katarina by her own admission set would be profitable and beneficial for her career to essentially play along so like that and that's in her own words so yeah i don't know that's a that's a rough one i even say here that it's almost always bad for a boss to proposition a worker and he claimed that i was saying that he that so what i just said there his character characterization of that was if you're a workplace victim of sexual harassment you have power over your boss that was his characterization of that he would then later claim that he was correct about the entire prime kai situation i was wrong about prime kai oh i saw this this was yesterday i thought you were referring to some new new development no as far as i understand it and i'm sorry i i don't mean to turn this into some kind of uh you know ego boost wasn't i right about everything the underlying inappropriate behavior primek i engaged in against cat uh seemed inappropriate and he apologized for it the problem is dylan went public with it too early and ended up fronting a bunch of claims that he couldn't support and then later those claims ended up being facile because it turns out samantha the banana didn't communicate with primeknit in the way that she had she had said that she did to cat so my take of the behavior evidenced here is like fairly cringy but not like super terrible and i need to wait on evidence for more ended up being completely correct the edge is going to hate that yeah i saw like destiny fans who were hardcore raging over me when everything i said was completely correct um and i didn't have to change any of my statements or beliefs like it all ended up being true but a lot of them were like i can't believe you said prime kai was a sexual predator that's like wow we're not even pretending to know what we're talking about anymore uh huh um but okay anyway it seems like a pretty unfortunate situation all around you literally said he's actually raster yeah yeah from from what i saw from talking with prime kind according to primek's statement where he apologized yeah but that's not like end of the world and i don't think that was the case that he admitted to sexually harassing her it's also not like the worst thing that could have happened the worst thing that could have happened it would have been uh prime kai deliberately sexually harassing with the intent the malicious intent of exploiting her uh um social lack of mores uh which was never proven so there is a belief that i would bully rape victims very popularly endorsed by ian's subreddit probably because he himself said i engage in rape apologia his subject will say this constantly bet dgg would look at a rape victim and say you're just trying to get clout by coming forward wait this sounds familiar despite how many like sexual assaultment claims i've covered on stream and victims i've supported through that i'm amazed that he wasn't banned for the rape apology arc you know he said this he's used this rape apology comment i think we've heard it like five times at this point countersue one incredibly irritating aspect of ian is that he engages in behavior that i'd be crucified for especially by his community if i were to engage in anything remotely similar many of the things he's actually done or even worse than the things he's falsely claiming i do while ian was fighting against cat black over their personal issues it wasn't enough to prove that what she was saying was incorrect he also had to label label her as a stalker an abuser an abuser and again an abuser similar to him labeling me an abuser in stalker just for reviewing his political content when mama debate wait she's watching my live stream debates and she doesn't follow me i think has she been like stalking me like i never would have believed that based on her behavior over the past few years but she has acted so crazy over the past few like days that it's like really [ __ ] weird like holy like i don't care about you i don't care like i worry she's going to start like posting but she doesn't even care like that i live at my address you know like holy [ __ ] jesus [ __ ] um wait i think dm convo means direct message no way wasn't that you know i've said this a lot but i really feel like black comes across like abuser here anyway out of curiosity you're asking me respect you and clearly don't respect me not really oh [ __ ] she's such a [ __ ] abuser dude holy [ __ ] and i said there was never any way all to make you believe anything then she is in this case other abuser and the oppressor like this is the problem the only way to answer this the only way to really solve this problem is to point out that i need to have some kind of independent decision making ability similar to him labeling me an abuser and stalker just for viewing his political content he's claimed i'm transphobic merely for quote tweeting and fighting with trans accounts on twitter yet here he is blowing up a smaller trans creator while simultaneously using stereotypically transphobic insults against them like mentally ill ian has talked multiple times about using his community to brigade he's mentioned trying an underhanded way to effect an outcome regarding other reddit communities um as you guys all know uh the entirety of leftist reddit is controlled by a core team of moderators most of whom are tankies who despise me and just auto ban uh basically anyone who speaks positively of me i don't have a solution for this problem uh it's possible that in the future we can attempt to do like coordinated uh uh you know like i don't know mod mail now that sounds super dorky nah nah that's dumb i don't really know what to do about it to be honest there might be some way some some some underhanded way of affecting an outcome it's not like i don't have the influence to do this you know um he's encouraged people to publicly shame contra points all right thank you guys keep it up though okay complacent the more of you are in the replies being like that's not what's happening right here like this is necessary okay publicly shame her into changing her mind on this all right he's told his audience to go nuclear on riley an online trans content creator and a caller whatever you want just want to see if i can't find that clip sometime i i think that um i i think i'm comfortable though that uh if it does turn out that after that conversation riley's takeaway is that i said it would be okay to have sex in public uh i'm okay with going nuclear on riley uh we we no longer need any respect for her uh we can we can shame people for even continuing to give a [ __ ] about her you can call her whatever you want i don't care uh there's absolutely no charity reserved for um for people who behave that way absolutely none he even gave cover for people going after her law degree with demon mama also chiming in to say that she shouldn't be a lawyer as well after communities began to spam phone calls to get riley disbarred the board's like that right oh and then this is wash giving justification i think for why it's okay to go after rgr's [ __ ] uh bar license bar license license what do you call it her qualification with the bar i don't you call it go after her to try to make it so she can't get certified from the bar like i mean i think um now you could say it's like esoteric and this online drama doesn't like perfectly describe her value elsewise but i think there's at least an argument we have here dylan says every maryland queer i know who knows of her advocacy has shining reviews her stuff online offline has been great the last thing i wanted someone doing good work to be thrown off their work as a queer i think she does good work um i'm not sure if i like that necessarily and does says thanks for making your stands clear i'm glad we can all be clear about our stances here you just think it's cool to play defense for people who say buying human beings for sex is quote primarily about the buying and that's how you want advocating for you say with your test and then it seems down there at least in this case we're not really talking about going after one's job right we're just talking about one suitability for a progressive board i mean at the very least what a person does online is definitely relevant to their presence on such a board is it not imagine a mad this was demon mama gabby's saying i'm mainly a game streamer i have people from wash dylan even your community watch me do you think i'm a dgg parrot huge difference between saying your political takes are bad it shouldn't be platform and trying to get someone trying to make sure someone never gets a job yes based on your constant attempts to pick fights with me you're constantly appearing only when drama running shows up and two no one is saying riley can't get a job at best buy just that she probably shouldn't be a lawyer if she's going to sling false accusations everywhere ian also mentioned on stream perhaps riley shouldn't be a lawyer the same time that everybody was trying to go after her job positions to you and every time in chat you're like well that's not what i mean well with respect you shouldn't be a lawyer then because clearly there's a huge disconnect between what you're thinking what you say he wished his audience would have harassed professor flowers some more and slandered for it i feel like my main issue here after all of this is that you guys didn't go far enough and harassing a queer woman of color i feel like you guys could have gone way harder with that you know he's encouraged his community to harass a police officer having a mental breakdown on social media frightening this i don't remember what this cop was crying about but it was pretty clear she was on some kind of breakdown so i hope and i i encourage all of you to get on this that we all make fun of her as aggressively as possible and we make fun of everybody who is trying to turn this into some sort of victimized police narrative the police her the most perpetually victimized god man i wish i remember the details of this story i wish i remember can somebody fill me in are they that important though do you remember it was a town in america just try to imagine for one micro second if i ever was sicking my community on somebody like that what the fallout would be it would be unbelievable ian will be critical of views of mine and then copied the same view and passed it off as his own sometimes just a few days later i was critical of blm after they defended jesse smullet which i was mocked by ian and many others for vosh was liking all sorts of tweets where i was saying this hurts to say but supporting blm is getting harder and harder every day when this organization exists having constantly stated conservatives listen beale and the movement building organization are totally different always comes off sounding like a massive cope dot dot dot this i had to say in response to blm had come out the organization and supported jesse smullet to which vosh liked the tweets oh dude i'm so ready for this arc destiny is speedrunning the left wing of fascism three days later vosh went on stream and spoke about how disgusting blm was for defending jesse smullet this is his video blm org disgustingly defends jesse smullet and amplified others making fun of me for saying that people would kill themselves if they lived for seven days in my shoes i tweeted out you would kill yourself if you lived for um you would kill yourself if you lived for seven days in my shoes one hundred percent guaranteed lympheo a statement that i still stand by wash liking funniest reply i've ever seen unknown to most destiny trapped himself and said a [ __ ] and bald torture device 10 years ago and if you attempt to smell it it will explode um least reactionary debate streamer community just people making fun of it and then a few days later people people will downplay this people always sound like they seem like oh it's just you know it's just harassment what whatever you deserve it you know i'll talk a little bit more about that but i can say with great confidence you know that the stuff that people like lindsay ellis or god help us myself have to put up with if experienced by an average person uh no actually we'll be more specific an average person on twitter who's currently harassing lindsay ellis they would kill themselves in eight seconds a few days later he said in every person twitter kill themselves in eight seconds they deal with harassment hit us online ian attacked me for trying to test his conviction with a 25 000 bet on whether or not a trans genocide would start in the u.s in a few years after he said that we're the precipice of a genocide i think could you actually engage in a little picking up the fourth store and watch destiny being destined with your segments no i i don't really have an interest in succumbing to the latest attempt to getting my attention i was browsing the subreddit and i saw this um tweet from like cam liken lickin as it were where is it i just saw it while scrolling through earlier where uh here it is yeah um where you know i'm assuming that he's not lying apparently you can imagine him saying this can i try to do this in his voice um all right buddy how about this huh if you're so confident that a genocide of lgbt people have it in the next five years how do you put some money down on it huh 25 000 to your lgbt charity of choice if you if there ends up being a genocide effect if if not then you have to do it right uh yeah you get that yeah this seems like some dumb [ __ ] jimmy door what do you get like ill have more attention yeah it's up there in terms of like attention grabbing or whatever i wonder who would have taken a 25 000 bet as to whether or not republicans would back like an attempted coup on the us he lasted the idea of a bet a few days later because in a way um you just want the hats you don't wear hats in fencing you wear those mask guards wash you serious no no i'm serious okay here's the thing okay i feel like um one thing that people don't get tested enough on is conviction you know so one way that you can test conviction is on gambling uh if you believe this so much then why don't you put money down on it but it's not considered to be a very honorable or very socially acceptable way of resolving high-level disputes like if there are government officials that are saying x is going to happen like say for example back in 2018 before the primaries whether or not there would be a giant caravan of migrants coming up that donald trump then used the um the national guard uh to defend against you know so it would be like well if you really think that's gonna happen why don't you put a bet in on it but the thing is people don't really do that so what if instead people who are in ian is constantly amplifying and liking tweets that are attacking me or my wife after complaining about me going after people just for being in his community so he says that i go after people that are just in his community here he is attacking um i think it's either me or my wife and this is all just like he likes so much [ __ ] on twitter that's like attacking me um in in attacking my community constantly um this dude beefing through his wedding when your vds is so bad you actually think the pedophilia guy has logical arguments dgg giving props to a pedophile like all of this um i think these were things in here attacking molina oh yeah this one destiny's wife liking tweets from neo-nazi lauren southward about censorship of her transphobic tweet towards kethel's melina never liked the original transphobic tweet she just liked this because she saw lauren defending me on twitter that was literally it she never liked any original turns out tweet i don't think she knew what the original tweet was really funny that destiny saw this tweet and didn't say anything about his wife tacitly agreeing that i am a man but did quote tweet one of my followers in the replies yet his fans keep insisting that he's done more attitude for trans people than i ever have melina is not transphobic at all she never has been like she's from sweden i don't even think they have transformed people like they probably do but like ian complained that people view him as a boogeyman by spawning false narratives about his community while constantly doing the exact same thing to me by claiming that my community is full of evil people who defend pedophiles um with with regards to how these conversations typically go wrong i do think a lot of it is a narrative-based thing the issue is that a lot of people do view me as some kind of big bad scary antagonist um a person who's representative of the rot in the online left and also because people constantly talk about this alleged harassment from my community a person who mobilizes this massive wave of hate that people will get after which again i've seen the comments under professor flowers video there are people who are angry at her i didn't see anything i would characterize as harassment and her subs have gone up so you know the the the the the industrial complex of anti-vaginites uh you know continues to produce to this day um [Music] ian defended the idea that individual actors and systems could act as capitalists as they want because we're all slaves to the system he said he would never criticize individual capitalist actors only system we have people in legitimate positions of power as opposed to a bunch of college students and you understand that like with that mentality you could never criticize business again though right well i don't criticize bezos okay hold on it's entirely possible that i've misspoke generally speaking and i do hold to this try to criticize the systems that allow people like bezos to exist now there have definitely been times where really i only found one example of this because i feel like that's such a ridiculous thing but of course he's making fun of people like elon musk or people like bezos saying that like oh you've got so much money like couldn't you do other things this tweeted over 75 000 likes right making fun of elon for not ending homelessness and hunger because you could just spend all the money apparently to do it but despite how critical ian is now of me fighting with leftists and being spike based he had a decent understanding of my issues with leftists through 2019 and 2020. why do you think destiny is so anti-left destiny has talked multiple times about why he's doing this destiny was a reactionary for a while and he would make arguments like oh nobody should care about representation of media who cares what color the person you're watching us we should all just like the media for its own merits but then he realized that a bunch of [ __ ] reactionary [ __ ] who actually [ __ ] hate black people and women were taking his points and using them to further their own names destiny felt betrayed by the right who he felt hadn't standed by the principles that he was advocating for so he got asked mad and started creating the right more and that led him down progressive route that he currently exists on and during that progressive road he took on quite a few all writers did a whole bunch of damage to them in their credibility and now he feels as though he's done the exact same thing to the left we're a bunch of leftists are like larping [ __ ] who have no idea um no idea what help like political efficacy works i have no idea how to meaningfully improve society but they're just a bunch of lawyers who want to like kill cops or whatever so he feels as though he's been done in the exact same way and he feel betrayed by it that simple i don't need anything from here do you think you'll get an opportunity to talk to steve i get unbanned from twitch i mean i made a comic about it so i hope so [Music] except the left doesn't lose credibility for me the debates they engage and i disagree i think non-compete did pretty poorly michael brooks has said some pretty dumb [ __ ] um uh the surfs was good the surf conversation was fine um ben bergus was in he thinks renting is cheaper than only house renting is cheaper than owning a house unless you plan on living there for a really long time where i find your comments just go on twitter it's somewhere there the whole thing all 23 pages that was a pretty good summary actually how do you feel about the bread tubers who say the best way to deal with destinies not to engage with them that's a good idea because every single [ __ ] time i've read through shows are facing destiny they get blown out that was really [ __ ] embarrassing for letters in general yeah please stay away for your own sake for all of our stakes stay away i can only handle so much appointment there are some writers with developers now oh that lag ian makes fun of my community for pointing out tactics he uses to sound more serious such as deepening his voice and checking his vocab despite him as meaning admitting as much on stream before and in earlier chat logs we saw it really is indistinguishable from a conservative community now wait they do it unironically the fake calm voice leaks condescension that's true uh more than usual that is it's very cringe once you notice all his little tactics debate tactics memes who is these little i see we've noticed all these sneaky maneuvers that flash in cages in like being calm and making people he talks to look bad by pointing out the thing have you noticed how how how effortlessly flosh alternates between inhaling and exhaling gender is a collection of performative demonstrations like social attributes that surround that you use to identify yourself like i'm a male i'm male 1 a penis on hair and [ __ ] and x y i assume i assume x y there are big examples like x y y or x x y like male assigned people i'm pretty sure actually um and i but and that's sex but i wear boxers i wear um t-shirts uh i uh i guess i was about to say i don't grow my hair at all but i don't wear makeup i choose to keep my beard grown i wear deliberately masculine clothing styles and hairstyles i start i del i trained my voice to be this deep you know i trained myself to speak in this way i code myself masculine i act i mean he literally is admitted as much ian has been selectively critical of me too stuff when it doesn't serve his political interests as well sydney watson called him out on twitter and his community responded in time sydney watson i just like to remind everyone that when vosh found out i was sexually assaulted by a non-white man he accused me of making it up this is an objective lie for anyone who actually cares about the truth you should find the video she's referring to yourself he never says any of the things she's saying he said in her tweet but people don't actually care about the truth nowadays unfortunately yeah i mean it's really funny because i'm over here you know what okay i'm gonna here wait hold on i should probably put my webcam down because i'm like blocking their faces i've been doing the whole video i just want to say do you think it maybe speaks a little bit to the fact that we have a rape culture when we put six people in a room together to talk about me too and the four when they're like hey who have you have experienced sexual assault and the four women sit down and they've all been raped and they all can barely choke out a coherent sentence uh um like does it do we think this perhaps maybe slightly speaks to the fact that there's a problem like me too has gone too far false allegations are ruining people's lives okay who among you have experienced sexual assault and like every woman in the room starts crying like i almost every female friend i have has been uh the recipient of sexual assault or violence or rape or whatever at some point in their lives seriously it's such a common thing i think one and four is probably understating it significantly i wouldn't be surprised if the rate for sexual assault on women over one's lifetime was as high as one and three or one and two we just don't know because nobody [ __ ] reports because reports aren't taken seriously that's what me too is about you're like i don't think things are the same but things impact you like bizarre ways but yeah like because the perpetrator wasn't white um and because he was like i'm you know part of like a certain religion oh wait are we being real i mean the police are basically just like we can't because um of cultural differences which i don't feel like is such a good what [Music] [ __ ] are you [ __ ] kidding me did she turn her [ __ ] rape confession into how how the refugees [ __ ] ahmed muhammad raped her and the police were like oh we can't persecute brown people [ __ ] [ __ ] he self-admittedly engages in quite a bit of motivated reasoning if i ever left a condo with a lefty and said i know they're wrong i just don't know why lol let's go find out why they're wrong i would be crucified for it all right we're on an unrelenting economic research arc until we find out why that guy was wrong i you you can call me an idlog if you want the idea that we've been doing all of this [ __ ] all the imperialism for centuries and it's like oh it was like nothing i i don't believe it summary my goal here is not to explicitly illustrate how horrible a political pundit i believe ian to be i think other people have done a good job at that you've got the democratic friends of you doomer politics do more politics vid is uh one way um wannabe sad boy in my subreddit has written up a pretty big effort post on it as well because that's what he does instead my desire is simply for people to understand how figures like ian can contribute to such a horrendous misunderstanding of who i am the positions i advocate for or the things that i've done i don't even necessarily blame ian's fans for hating me given the monster that ian builds me up to be every single time he opens his mouth about me on stream i just wish people would hold content creators to higher standards when it comes to illustrating the positions of our political rivals demand to at least see the original video or tweet being referenced i'm also not saying that i'm correct or even acting virtuous in every interaction i have there are times when i've said or done things that i shouldn't have and i'll admit as much for instance should not have called chloe a pedophile despite my discomfort with her talking to hundreds or thousands of miners on discord about hrt and despite her making rape jokes about my wife my wife and i i will not apologize however for calling all people who advocate for do-it-yourself hrt pedophiles because i have never done such a thing same as with dough perhaps it's not my place to speculate on the validity of her suicide attempt but i will not apologize for mocking all of trans suicidality because i simply have not done such a thing the end i hope this was as agonizing to listen to as it was for me to write d g g l i wish it need not have happened in my time said frodo so do i said gandalf and so do all who live to see such times that is not for them to decide all we have to decide is what we do with the time that is given to us from j.r.r tolkien the book the fellowship of the ring i'm incredibly lucky to do what i do been blessed the opportunity to learn new things play more video games any human should be allowed to provide financially for myself my child play talented and wonderful people pursue dreams i didn't even know i could have traveled to more parts of the world than i ever thought i'd see engage with wonderful people from around the world meet new friends lovers co-workers enemies fans and haters alike despite the cost would never choose to step back in the life i've lived before this yet the cost is great i feel sometimes there is no recognition of this rather people think me to be a monster wandering the internet looking for communities to terrorize this is not the case i believe the vast majority of the things posted about me on the internet are lies i believe people undercount the good i do in both my personal and public life i don't wish for people to like me or even respect me i simply wish that those people that hate me at least hate me for things i've actually said or done and weren't only spurred on by the rantings and ravings of bad political actors online looking to animate an audience from the rubble of my reputation i hope this document served to correct the record and establish with good foundation my beliefs regarding some of the more controversial topics and positions that have sprung up over the past couple years i'm sure it will be a continual battle to fight against mischaracterizations against me especially as my opinions continue to mature through time i appreciate everyone who stood by me i hope i can continue to at least aspire towards the ideals i've set for myself and i'm excited for the projects and adventures awaiting me jesus [ __ ] what a what a ride never again everything about my stream would be significantly worse it weren't for the tireless dedication of people who work for and with me in no particular order rtba the bear security moderation and a million other things cake master website maintainer and chief puts out fires guy jay jader vernanda a mysterious the actual developer guy linus red the other actual developer chatbot maintainer forethought chief subreddit janitor ninu email manager master on banner and merch deliverer august actual youtube editor god on earth lemmy winks and ken dolly the old guard twitch mods auntie george might come free andrea polecat not diced bog boy amelia or amelie and zolus and there's probably more to that i missed too for um my thankless discord moderators and cenza and stanpet the two who originally really for no compensation originally built out destiny gg got the whole project and chat started back in 2013.

Channel: Destiny

Views: 572,847

Keywords: steven bonnell, destiny, destiny streamer, destiny debates, destiny twitch, destiny vods, politics, news, livestreamfail, lsf

Id: F4_9VZxtM9M

Length: 143min 17sec (8597 seconds)

Published: Mon Jul 11 2022