>>> I DIDN'T KNOW MANAFORT WELL. HE WASN'T WITH THE CAMPAIGN LONG. >> I DON'T KNOW PAPADOPOULOS. I DON'T KNOW HIM. I SAW HIM SITTING IN ONE PICTURE AT A TABLE WITH ME. THAT'S THE ONLY THING I KNOW ABOUT HIM. >> I NEVER MET THIS WOMAN. I NEVER SAW THIS WOMAN. >> I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT QANON. >> I JUST TOLD YOU -- >> YOU TOLD ME BUT WHAT YOU TELL ME DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE IT FACT. >> I DON'T KNOW HIM VERY WELL. I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO HIM MUCH. THIS IS NOT A MAN I KNOW WELL. SEEMS LIKE A NICE GUY, THOUGH. >> IT EVENTUALLY HAPPENS TO EVERYBODY. HI AGAIN, EVERYONE. IT'S 5:00 IN THE EAST. DONALD TRUMP'S AGE-OLD "HARDLY KNEW HIM" DEFENSE. WHEN THINGS GET ICKY, STICKY, TRUMP SUDDENLY A STRANGER TO WHOEVER IT IS IN THE CROSSHAIRS. HE'S BARELY MET THE PERSON. HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THEM. NEVER HEARD OF THEM. THAT SAME DEFENSE POPPED UP AGAIN OVER THE WEEKEND. THIS TIME IT WASN'T A PERSON WHO'D ONCE WORKED FOR HIM. BUT TO AN ENTIRE RADICAL AGENDA LAID OUT BY TRUMP'S CLOSEST ALLIES, WHICH INCLUDES ELIMINATING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, CRIMINALIZING ABORTION MEDICINE AND INSTALLING AN ARMY OF LOYALISTS TO REPLACE THOSE SERVING IN FEDERAL AGENCIES. WE'VE COVERED IT ON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE. WE'RE TALKING OF COURSE ABOUT PROJECT 2025. IT IS A 900-PAGE BLUEPRINT FOR THE NEXT REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, AN EXTREMELY DETAILED FULL-SCALE REIMAGINING OF SOMETHING STEVE BANNON SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FIRST TRUMP TERM. RIGHT? THE ANNIHILATION OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE. IT'S TRUMP'S PLAN FOR HOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD OPERATE IF HE CONTINUES TO LISTEN TO THESE ALLIES. PROJECT 2025 WAS CREATED BY THE CONSERVATIVE GROUP THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION. ITS PRESIDENT, KEVIN ROBERTS, MADE THIS SHOCKING COMMENT LAST WEEK. WATCH. >> WE ARE GOING TO WIN. WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF TAKING THIS COUNTRY BACK. WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF THE SECOND AMERICAN REVOLUTION, WHICH WILL REMAIN BLOODLESS IF THE LEFT ALLOWS IT TO BE. >> SEVERAL OF TRUMP'S CLOSEST ALLIES AND FORMER OFFICIALS ARE PART OF THIS EFFORT WHICH, QUOTE, WILL REMAIN BLOODLESS IF THE LEFT ALLOWS IT TO BE, END QUOTE. THAT INCLUDES HIS CLOSEST PERSON IN CHARGE OF PERSONNEL FROM HIS FIRST TERM. HIS NAME'S JOHN McENTEE. IT ALSO INCLUDES RUSSELL VOUTH, CHRISTOPHER MILLER AND PAUL DANS, WHO IS THE PROJECT'S DIRECTOR. YET THREE DAYS AFTER THOSE COMMENTS FROM THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION'S PRESIDENT BECAME A PRESS YOU KNOW WHAT STORM TRUMP TROTTED OUT HIS OLD WHAT? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS IS. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PROJECT 2025 IS OR WHO'S BEHIND IT. POSTING THIS ON SOCIAL MEDIA. QUOTE, I DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'RE SAYING AND SOME OF THE THINGS THEY'RE SAYING ARE ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS AND ABYSMAL. ANYTHING THEY DO I WISH THEM LUCK. BUT I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, END QUOTE. TRUMP'S POTENTIAL VP PICKS QUICKLY RAN TO CLEAR THEIR GUY DONALD TRUMP OF ANY ASSOCIATION. WATCH. >> I GUARANTEE THERE ARE THINGS THAT TRUMP LIKES AND DISLIKES ABOUT THAT 900-PAGE DOCUMENT. BUT HE IS THE PERSON WHO WILL DETERMINE THE AGENDA OF THE NEXT ADMINISTRATION. >> THINK TANKS DO THINK TANK STUFF. THEY COME UP WITH IDEAS. THEY SAY THINGS. LOOK, I LIKE HERITAGE FOUNDATION. I AGREE WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THEY STAND FOR. BUT THERE'S A BUNCH OF SCHOLARS AND PEOPLE THAT TURN AROUND AND WORK ON DIFFERENT PROJECTS. BUT OUR CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT IS DONALD TRUMP. >> HE'S OUR GUY. AND HE SAYS HE NEVER HEARD OF IT. THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS A THINK TANK, BUT IT IS A THINK TANK, MIND YOU, THAT DURING TRUMP'S FIRST ADMINISTRATION DIRECTLY HANDED TRUMP THE NAMES OF THE THREE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES HE WOULD EVENTUALLY PICK. THREE NOW SUPREME COURT JUSTICES WHO HAVE MADE HUGELY CONSEQUENTIAL LEGAL DECISIONS INCLUDING TO GIVE TRUMP FULL IMMUNITY IF HE BECOMES PRESIDENT AGAIN AS WELL AS FURTHERING THE AGENDA LAID OUT IN WRITING IN THOSE 900 PAGES AUTHORED BY PROJECT 2025, THINGS LIKE OVERTURNING ROE VS. WADE, UNDERMINING THE POWER OF FEDERAL AGENCIES, GIVING THE PRESIDENT AS WE SAID ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY FOR OFFICIAL ACTS. PROJECT 2025 IS WHERE WE START THE HOUR AGAIN WITH SOME OF OUR FAVORITE REPORTERS AND FRIENDS. PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT NYU, AUTHOR OF "STRONGMEN: MUSSOLINI TO THE PRESIDENT" RUTH BEN GHIAT IS BACK. PLUS NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THE "WASHINGTON POST," AUTHOR OF "FINISH WHAT WE STARTED: THE MAGA MOVEMENT'S GROUND WAR TO END DEMOCRACY," ISAAC ARNZ DORF IS BACK. ALSO JOINING US FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST DAVID JOLLY IS HERE. AND THE PRESIDENT OF MEDIA MATTERS FOR AMERICA ANGELO CAROSONE IS HERE. ANGELO I HAVE TO START WITH YOU. YOU HELPED FOCUS MY ATTENTION ON PROJECT 20125. WHAT DOES IT SAY TO YOU THAT IT'S GETTING SO MUCH BAD PRESS TRUMP IS DISTANCING ITSELF FROM IT? >> I THINK IT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SHINE LATE BIT OF A LIGHT ON WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW WITH PROJECT 20125. IT'S TERRIFYING. THE COMMENT THAT KEVIN ROBERTS MADE ISN'T EVEN THE SCARIEST THING WE SEE WHEN IT COMES TO PROJECT 2025. IT'S JUST SMALL ENOUGH TO LATCH ON TO SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT IN THESE MOMENTS. BUT IT REALLY ISN'T THE SCARIEST THING. AND I'M NOT THE LEAST BIT SURPRISED THAT TRUMP SORT OF DISTANCED HIMSELF FROM IT. BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, RIGHT? IT'S VERY CLEAR RIGHT NOW THAT THEY'RE FOCUSED ON TRYING TO WIN THIS ELECTION AND THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S POPULAR AND WHAT'S NOT POPULAR. THEY KNOW THAT PROJECT 2025 WILL TURN OFF VOTERS. IT WILL. WHAT IT IS CALLING FOR AND PRESCRIBING WILL TURN OFF EVEN THEIR OWN VOTERS. SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED, YOU KNOW, POLLED OF PROJECT 2025, EVEN MAGA REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE. NOT HUGE NUMBERS, BUT 30%, 40% HATE SOME OF THESE THINGS. THEY GET IT. AND THE DISTANCING WAS JUST ENOUGH TO SORT OF TRY TO MOVE IT THROUGH THE NEWS CYCLE BUT NOT ENOUGH TO BURN IT, RIGHT? WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IF TRUMP WANTS TO INCINERATE SOMETHING. RIGHT? THEY'RE OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, FUTURE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION POTENTIAL, THEY'RE OUT THERE BRAGGING ABOUT THEIR PAST WORK, YOU KNOW, GETTING 64% OF THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS PUT INTO POLICY IN THE FIRST YEAR OF HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION. THEY'RE OUT THERE CONTINUING TO DO THE WORK THEY WERE DOING BEFORE TRUMP DENOUNCED THEM. SO IT WAS REALLY A POLITICAL AND COMMUNICATIONS CALCULUS. BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. THE FACTS ARE THERE. THEY'RE STILL DOING THEIR WORK. THEY'RE STILL DOING THEIR WORK UNABATED OR UNCHECKED. SO EVERYONE SORT OF KNOWS IT WAS A WINK AND A NOD. AND THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO PLUG AHEAD WITH IT. AND THAT'S THE PART I THINK IS ULTIMATELY REALLY SCARY HERE, IS THIS IS A BLUEPRINT. IT'S A PLAN. IT'S NOT JUST A SERIES OF IDEAS. ONE OF THE THINGS STEVE BANNON I THINK HAD REALLY HELPED EXPLAIN PROJECT 2025 TO SO MANY AND HELPED REALLY RALLY BIG PUBLIC SUPPORT AMONGST THE RIGHT ONE OF THE THINGS HE ALSO REINFORCED ABOUT PROJECT 2025 IS THIS IS NOT RHETORIC, THAT'S A QUOTE, THIS IS NOT RHETORIC HE WOULD SAY OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN BECAUSE HE WANTED TO EMPHASIZE THIS IS A MECHANISM FOR ENACTING THE VERY REVENGE THAT DONALD TRUMP PROMISED AT HIS ANNOUNCEMENT SPEECH FOR RE-ELECTION IN WACO, TEXAS. SO IT IS A THROUGH LINE HERE SO THIS LARGER AGENDA. AND I THINK THAT I'M GLAD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT. WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT IS BOTH FRIGHTENING AND IT REALLY HELPS PUT TO A FINE POINT A LOT OF THE FEAR AND ANXIETIES I THINK PEOPLE ARE FEELING. IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE RIGHT ON PAPER. >> I WANT TO GET TO EVERYTHING YOU JUST LAID OUT FOR US. I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU JUST SAID IS THAT TRUMP IS SHAVING SOME OF THE CORNERS OFF. IT'S IN THAT PLATFORM WHERE HE TAKES OUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S ABORTION RHETORIC BECAUSE TRUMP OSTENSIBLY HAS THIS NEW LINE ABOUT LEAVING IT TO THE STATES. HE TAKES OUT MARRIAGE EQUALITY, A BAN ON SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, AND HE IS DOING THINGS TO APPEAL TO PARTS OF HIS OWN COALITION THAT DON'T LIKE PROJECT 2025 IN THE MOST SORT OF HIDEOUS ASPECTS OF TRUMPISM IN A WAY THAT SHOULD SCARE EVERYBODY, DAVID JOLLY. I MEAN, HE IS AHEAD IN THE POLLS. HE SEES THESE THINGS AS POLITICAL VULNERABILITIES. BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN HE WON'T DO THEM THE SECOND HE RETURNS TO OFFICE SHOULD THAT UNFORTUNATELY COME TO PASS. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, NICOLLE. YOU CAN THINK ABOUT PROJECT 2025 AS THE CONTRACT WITH AMERICA WRITTEN FOR THE TRUMP YEARS. AND MAYBE 1,000 PAGES INSTEAD OF 10 PAGES. BUT IT IS THE HARD RIGHT DOCTRINE THAT TODAY'S TRUMP MOVEMENT, REPUBLICAN PARTY'S TRUMP MOVEMENT, REALLY EMBRACES. AND I THINK IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT YOU PUT UP THE FACES AND THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE DONALD TRUMP'S SUGGESTION THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND THEN IT'S ARM'S LENGTH FROM HIM, THAT REALLY FAILS THE SMELL TEST IF YOU WILL BECAUSE WE KNOW DONALD TRUMP, SOMEONE PERSONALLY DEVOID OF ANY IDEOLOGY, BUT HE CHASES HARD RIGHT IDEOLOGY TO WIN BECAUSE THERE'S THIS MOVEMENT IN HIS NAME THAT HE IS WILLING TO GIVE ENERGY TO AND FUEL TO. THE COMPARISONS TO GOLDWATER OR GINGRICH'S MOVEMENT ARE CONSISTENT WITH PROJECT 2025 IN TERMS OF THE PLATFORMING AND MAINSTREAMING OF ECONOMIC INEQUALITY. AT ITS HEART CONSERVATIVE ECONOMIC POLICY IGNORES THE RESULTS OF ECONOMIC INEQUALITY. THAT IS BAKED IN. AND SO CERTAINLY THAT WOULD BE REASON FOR MANY PEOPLE TO OPPOSE IT. I THINK WHAT IS SO SHOCKING AND SO STARK IN 2024 COMPARED TO THE 1960s AND THE 1994 IS THIS CONTINUED WILLINGNESS AMONG HERITAGE AND PROJECT 2025 ADVOCATES TO ROLL BACK CIVIL RIGHTS PROTECTIONS, BE IT WITHIN THE LGBT COMMUNITY BECAUSE THE MOVE TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW BUSINESSES AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS OR STATES TO BEGIN TO MAKE RULES AROUND LGBT PROTECTIONS OR BE IT IN THE AREA OF REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM, THIS NOTION WHERE DONALD TRUMP FINDS IT CONVENIENT TO SAY YEAH, WE'RE JUST GETTING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, WE'RE GOING TO ROLL IT BACK TO THE STATES. HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS. AND SO IF YOU ARE ANYTHING FROM CENTER RIGHT TO THE LEFT, PROJECT 2025 SHOULD SCARE YOU FOR AN IDEOLOGICAL PURPOSE. BUT IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE IMPORT OF THE FEDERAL'S ROLE AND THE COURT'S ROLE IN PROTECTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS AROUND
