welcome back you know in the span of only sixty years three of the most popular 30 caliber cottages were introduced in this country and it probably overtaken the entire lot of 30 caliber countries has ever made on the popularity trance in terms of rifle being sold and in Congress popularity in terms of the actual cognitive being sold these contribution ahead of anybody else way way ahead of all other copiers were talking the 308 Winchester which was developed in 1952 to 53 and the 3006 Springfield which is actually originally designed in 1903 and that was modified by the military in 1906 and the the 300 Winchester Magnum which came out in 1963 those 3 chytrid dominate the scene when it comes to 30 caliber sales in this country and probably throughout the world so let's talk about those three and see where they fit into the spectrum in reading all the blogs that I'd like to scan through and just to get to put my thumb on the pulse of what people are thinking out there and what their what they're writing according to what they're saying themselves I think there's a lot of misinformation I think is the need for a certain amount of disclosure that sometimes isn't given appropriately and comparisons have to be made based on actual figures and not just myths in hyperbole you can you can walk away with the wrong impression if you if you succumb to some of the information which is generated out there especially by especially by writers who sometimes don't know all the facts themselves or sometimes they destroy them exactly to prevent a certain viewpoint for an article that they're writing you know if they're writing an article about you know presenting a particular cartridge that they like they can destroy the view in an in a political sense which you know isn't necessarily realistic velocity hasn't always been used to you know hi Papa cottage velocity sometimes can be misinterpreted and misappropriation manufacturers simply to push a cartridge and sell it over another sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't sometimes the public is a little bit more savvy than that let me just go back historically into a very classic example in the in the early 50s with a Winchester introduced a 243 Winchester which was a necked down 308 concrete that had initially came out with a very very good twist rate which would they won't twist was able to spend a hundred grain bullet so you know designed wood designed largely by Warren Page and Winchester and they established a cartridge on the scene which went from varmints to big-game up to the side of the medium side game up to the size of deer and it really develops some serious traction in a hurry it became very great popular copy in all respects anybody who wanted to hunt whether its long range environments or deer up to 100 grain boats it was a fabulous performer any any cut into the market very very solidly in a hurry Remington gets our competitor came out with essentially the same bore diameter rather than being based on the 308 case it was based on the seven millimeter milder case and they released it as the you know there's always a name game and it's not necessarily the name the name don't mean anything but it would call the 244 Remington and the 244 round canoe is exactly the same 243 diameter balls of the 243 Winchester but it could only handle bullets up to because of us because of his rather slow twist it could only handle bullets up to about 90 grains in how to rainbow simply did not stabilize so you know they're engineering of it was flawed from the outset if they didn't they didn't figure into the fact that most people who were buying the 243 we're not buying it as a primer copies they were buying it as a deer cartridge especially for their wives and for the earth for their youth for their children it was a fabulous cartridge for that it had very very little recoil and it had extremely good takedown qualities very very long sectional density bullet the coefficient everything and flying along at a muzzle velocity of 2,900 feet per second it took to your home all the time so Remington you know misread at the market and they promoted the cartridge which is essentially was nothing more than a heavy-duty fireman cartridge which you know this was the age of this was the age of the 222 and people really couldn't care less about it and they didn't need to have they didn't need to have a super ROM cartridge and you that needed a supervisor macaques weren't too excited about because it couldn't be used for for dear so the 244 shortly after we introduced Remington finally good I got on the stick and they recognized they had to spin the twist a little bit faster and basically be able to put a hundred gram bullet in it and in so doing they now had a round which was not only competitive with the 243 but it was said to be even better because it could get out there another greater than 100 feet per second faster so it broke that 3000 that mythical 3000 foot per second barrier well one would think that that 300 folks that 3040 second barrier just like the two fifty three thousand back many years before immediately sold all kinds of rifles I guess Remington figured that that was going to be in all the writers thought that that was going to sell the score and 243 we're gonna succumb to this new greater and better six millimeter Remington well the six millimeter Remington now lies basically in in the history historic rubbish it never caught hold once you have something that works people aren't too interested in income getting something that's the work better it either works or doesn't work the 243 work and that was the one that everybody gravitated to it the six millimeter wasn't as beautifully for you know seven by fifty-seven cartridge case is a larger case and it it was not as comfortable to shoot for the wife or for the kids so it didn't have any advantage anybody who would bind the six millimeter Remington for additional hundred feet per second they were few and far between so it didn't it really it really didn't have that advantage so I digress this is all about this is all about sometimes the velocity game playing up playing up feet per second in terms of you know its sales potential the 3006 when it came out you know had military numbers of like 27 2700 feet 50 feet per second or so but in his commercial in his commercial skin these days it generates well in excess of 3,000 feet per second will 150 grain bullet now I'm going to compare hundred 50 grain bullets not because not because I suggest that for any particular game but simply because it's comparison of fact is keeping the Apple to Apple and oranges to oranges you know and comparing probably with the most popular bullet weight for American deer hunters across the board which is 150 grain bullet weight for the 30 caliber boar theme again I'm not saying that better I'm just saying that's that's the one that people go to the show they reach and they buy 150 grain bullet waste because that's what it does but that's what they'll grandfather's bought and so forth that's the one that they buy but the 150 green bullet weight in the 3006 runs around three thousand three thousand fifty feet per second generally speaking some some of them more but all right you know this is not we're not here to discuss sales issues for different countries but basically it's just it's a three thousand plus four per second cartridge against a in the typical rifle the 308 is developing twenty nine hundred plus feet per second so like 29:52 like three thousand sixty or something like that so we're talking 100 to 110 feet per second in different differences of velocity that velocity gain basically comes along with roughly ten grains of powder increase 10 grains of powder increase when I say that I'm saying that one if you look in most you're loading manuals and I'm not comparing what commercial cartridges low because they have their own they have their own loading powders and cannister powders and things but the 308 typically is running at roughly between 47 to 50 to 50 maybe 55 grains of powder sometimes 45 typical we'll say 45 to round off the numbers between 45 to 55 grains of powder depending on it burning rate the 3006 is running roughly 55 to 65 brains of powder depending on its burning rate so you're running up the scale and that that's a sliding scale that that moves along i in all regards similarly so the lobe that is developing a certain feet per second would be the 308 at in any given any given velocity comparing it against the 3006 we're talking basically 10 grains difference so that 10 grain difference that that gives you that additional 100 to 110 or so feet per second in terms of actual range capability when I say range capability I'm not talking about its effective range on deer deer or not I've said this so many times dear do not prevent a difficult target for most both especially any bullet in the 30 caliber wrong 30 caliber bullet is a big bullet you know you're talking about six millimeter six millimeter diameter bullets at 2,900 feet per second taking gear regularly all the time you know that 150 grain bullet traveling at 2,900 feet per second is it's a no brainer is it's a de bolt with far greater frontal area and it's certainly certainly gotten one sufficient energy to penetrate through it with deer and they need to any direction they pointed so that's not we're not talking about effective trick yet we're not trying about effective energy we're talking about simply is a usable trajectory so the usable trajectory is is lengthened by the 3006 by roughly 25 yards 20 to 25 yards or you could say that the 308 trajectory is less than the 3006 by 20 to 25 yards and that's what you got you in and when you're talking about when you're talking about using just a little bit extra holdover that different co2 way very quickly also because remember they all are effective out as far as as far as you could have a hit a deer those two bullet traveling at any speed is going to kind of bring a deer down keep in mind that the 3006 the 3030 rather was 170 grain bullet starting out at only 2200 feet per second which quickly shed velocity because of this blunt inefficient low ballistic coefficient bullet that that bullet is sometimes striking deer at less than at less than 1,900 feet per second and it does a very very adequate job so you don't need to have you don't need to have an awful lot of you know velocity in order to kill deer so we're talking about a difference of we're talking about a difference of about 20 to 25 of overall range off whether for the point-blank hunter in other words the person who cites in his the person who cites in his concrete his sights and his rifle so that it rises no more than a certain amount or drops no more than a certain amount neck depth that amount is up to you whether six inches or three inches or two inches but in any in any case whatsoever the difference between the two cartridges is roughly to roughly less than 25 or so yards so comparing on that Gail so they're both very good I would consider both of them to be more more than more than adequate for deer deer they're substantial for deer their ample for the other ample time to their you know you don't have you don't have a killing issue with any 30 caliber cartridge of that sort I really laugh when I see people say relief you know they that's the 308 is an underpowered cartridge this really is not an underpowered cartridge it's a it's a military congress's got more than sufficient capability to take down simple deer weighs 150 pounds or so even if it weighs 250 pounds there's no issue now let's talk about something which is a little bit more more close to home for the average person if you're if you're equipping a rifle which is roughly an eight pound rifle you know can be more or less depending on the sling they put on it to the size of the scope weight of the mouse the weight of the barrel so if it wasn't so on but if you you know if you if you're picking yourself out of a nice you know pump-action rifle or you know a lightweight bolt-action rifle I'm putting a scope on it you know moderate power you 1 2 5 or 2 mm or two and a half to eight or something like that you know you're talking about an eight count rifle with a sling roughly well if you take a you can take those two rifles and compare the head-to-head for the additional for the additional power that you get from the 3006 over the 308 the 3006 I should say the 308 with that combination at 2,900 plus B per second you generating somewheres around 13 pounds of recoil and you against your shoulder 13 pounds of recoil energy is what 13 to 14 is about depending on the amount of power which is put in copied by the manufacturer that's the amount of recoil that you feeling against your shoulder if you if you go to a 3006 with exactly the same bullet weight you jump in from 13 to 14 to roughly 19 to 24 pounds of free recoil that's a substantial amount the 3006 has typically been categorized over the years as being the most that the average the average person is willing to tolerate on a regular basis in other words we're not talking about taking up taking a once in a while taking a Wilder shot with a 458 and saying while I shot it you know we're not talking about that we're talking about the amount of recoils the average person willing to tolerate for an afternoon of you know standing on the fielding and shooting it it water jugs at 200 yards away or something the 3006 is it it's about the ceiling for the average person of the average weight and stature it's probably far more in my experience is far more than most most women would ever wish to tolerate that it well beyond death the 308 is a gun which my wife was always able to shoot very nicely 165 grain bullets without any difficulty with her 760 Remington pump never bothered her in the least but I can tell you that the through 3006 she would never get near she fought if she fired the 3006 a couple of times and that was more than more than enough time she did she did pretty well with with her 270 Winchester and the 270 Winchester is a comparison with a with 130 grain bullet with kicking out roughly 18 4 pounder recoil now that shows you that showed you how dramatic 1 foot pound of energy is in a rifle because she was able to tolerate you know basically 18 foot counter oil energy from her Seiko 270 130 grand boats but the 150 green bolts out of the 3006 being just another pound and a half or so more with something beyond her limitation so that shows you how sensitive those additional foot-pounds of recoil energy are so consider that in terms of in terms of your selecting cartridges or I should say rifles one over the other especially when you're dealing with bullet weights in that room if somebody would ask me what would I recommend would I recommend the 3006 or 308 when it comes to deer I would have to say simply the 3006 is absolutely unnecessary for deer is it's a it's a waste of it's a waste of powder if you're in a loader it's it's more it's more recoil and you certainly need to put up with is it is it more than I can handle though I can surely ended a lot more recoil definite but you know you can always shoot a gun with less recoil far more accurately and precisely than the one that you you know your your inner brain back here is the anticipating recoil I don't care who you are you know the brain cells there that are that are at work that are anticipating recoil and that anticipation gets in the way of your concentration so I would always I would always recommend the gun that you know delivers 13 pounder recoil over the gun that developed 19 pounder recoil is it that's it we're talking like a 68 percent change in our recoil from one to the other which is nothing nothing to sneeze at know if you're if you're talking about the and again the difference in actual trajectory it is it's less than 25 yards so when does that become when does that become an issue it may not becoming become an issue for you at all because the deer hunter if you white-tailed deer hunter you're never taking shots that would get anywhere near the maximum point-blank trajectory of either one of those cottages it's as simple of that if you're talking about hunting if you're talking about hunting out west and you're talking about occasionally shooting mule deer if you're going from the eastern woods to the western plains and you want to use the same you want to use the same gun in the same cartridge on both then I would go to the 3006 because that additional 25 yards of range can be meaningful out there sometimes that 25 yards can can put the put the animal within the range of your gun and well the other one well the 308 may not be enough in that situation but then that opens up a whole can of worms because then I'd have to say what I'd recommend the 270 or something a little bit more efficient for open plains game that has that had a better politico efficient than the shorts W hundred fifty green both 150 green 30 caliber bullet is kind of short and stubby with a very bullet low ballistic coefficient if ballistic coefficient in the PowerPoint bullet is only 0.294 that's you know the PowerPoint bullet is not too much it's not more ballistically efficient bullet of a meat but still they give you my dear it is very very low on the very low on the totem pole when it comes to a well política fishin c130 green bullet in the 270 front senses fire is far more political fishing now we've spoken about we've spoken about the difference between the 3006 and the 308 when it comes to under 50 green boats but that's not weird that that's not where the 3006 shines if I if I put them both together side by side you can immediately see they both exactly the same case head diameter they were both designed basically they mimic the the case diameter of the it's originated 7 by 57th Mauser Spanish Mauser that that cartridge case you know way shape and forms is identical to the seven by fifty seven mile to just blink lengthened a little bit so that the seven by fifty seven miles a case fault midway between the 308 case in the 3006 case there are other than that they're identical in you know and always know that difference in that different length is is of no concern when you're talking about a concrete which you're shooting 150 grain bullets because both cartridges can easily handle the hundred fifty grain loads the difference arises when you start loading longer bullet weights now here they I can find the ones that I'm looking for here's a 165 grain bullet in this is a nozzle petition now if I load this is loaded to a very very short overall length this happens to be a cartridge that was actually loaded in 1953 just above just about the time when they were first introduced in this country to the commercial world this 308 I've got a box it's an antique box that goes back to 1953 according to the copyright label on the flap now it's loaded to a lower overall length because it's going up only 110 grain vironment bullet but if I loaded it to its full typical overall length this hundred sixty-five grain bullet would protrude down about halfway into this case shoulder and remember now the case capacity is generally expected to be some ways around the shoulder itself that's that's the typical case capacity is the shoulder notwithstanding the fact you can compress loads and all that stuff but we're talking about a concrete which is filled to capacity generally speaking at the shoulder so this 165 grain bullet will not protrude down into the case capacity the 180 grain bullet will fill the shoulder it will go down into the shoulder region when it the standard overall length and that's about it before start bottling out into the powder chamber here's a 200 grain here's a 200 gram bolt a 200 grain bolts simply cannot be loaded into a 308 case without substantially intruding on the color chamber in the powder capacity well what does that mean if if you is very simply the color of the powder capacity of that case is meant it made it to the shoulder if you start getting down below the shoulder you're immediately taking up the color space that generates the pressure that will get that get that bullet going so you start losing efficiency you can always load 200 green bullets in a 308 it's going to work but you're going to be comparing it against a 3 away at 30 or 6 rather the 3006 can handle 220 grain bullets and arrive at the same velocity the 308 will shoot 180 grain bolts it's as simple as that the 3006 case by comparison has let me let me show you the 2 again side by side if you look starting from the lengths of the from the top of the shoulder going up to the top of the neck you can see how the 3006 case is quite a bit it's markedly longer well that gives it a huge advantage this case was originally designed to handle both up to 220 grain by the military that's why it has such as this log you know luxurious neck length is because is because of that need to handle long reach of the original loadings in the 1903 version of the 3006 which you 220 green boats so it has this long long neck that can handle 200 grain errs without going down into 220 grain it without going down into the boiler room this is a 200 grain nozzle petition as you can see it only goes halfway down into the shoulder so it basically as the 308 handles 155 Rainbolt going halfway down the shoulder the 3006 is handling 200 grain bullet going halfway down the shoulder and where the 308 is taking 180 rainbows going down to the boiler room down to the chamber of the case the 3006 is taking 220 grain bullet storm down into the virtual chamber of the case so this is where this is this is what cuts one out of the pack from the other it's when you start increasing bullet weight so the comparison for the person's wood desiring one rifle and comparing it to another is basically asking you so what bullet weights are you looking at are you looking at shooting bullet weights under from 180 grain down to say 110 grain bullet weights are in that region then 100d 308 is got all that you need when you have when you have a cartridge that you desire to shoot greater than 180 green bullet weights hundred 80 to 220 grain bullet weights and to keep the velocities up now are you talking about where the 3006 lived in brief and that's that's the classic difference between those two cartridges and the 3006 is also the 3006 is also equipped with typically one in ten twist barrels which is suited especially for shooting a heavyweight a long long bullets where the 308 is equipped typically with 1 and 12 twist barrel sometimes a little fast times a little bit slower like 1 and 13 but typically the one in 12 twists is the is the traditional 43082 low light or weak bolt both willy endl both will handle bolt all the way from on attended to 200 or so great but you're not you certainly not going to be able to get any on fright of a 308 when you're loading to 200 grain bullets so that's a comparison between the two and those are the real numbers so if you if you're you're going to be really focused on what your desires are for a rifle you know when you when you up the ante and go from what it basically is a short length action to a long action you're increasing the weight of your gun and perhaps unnecessarily if if if you need to increase the weight of the gun because you want to have heavier bullets that's fine but if you if you're increasing the weight of your gun by an additional half a pound that could easily go into the swing they carrying around with you and things like that all all these things should come into consideration keep that in mind so let's go up to the next level here this is this is where this is where we're not only talking a longer powder chamber but we're talking about a substantially broader powder chamber in other words this is this is that seven by 57 milder case that had been lengthened this is an entirely different case this this case right here originally started out at the 300 Holland Holland that's that would have the original design that was the original head diameter of the 300 Winchester Magnum it's a different it's a different case diameter near Florida effectively gives it much much greater powder capacity how much great of collar capacity we're talking 25 grain we're talking about going up from 60 grains to eighty five and a half greens that's that's a huge amount of coloring tree the difference the difference is the tremendous 370 feet per second if you compare the factory ballistic so say winch at 150 green power point Super X load 370 feet per second is a huge amount of increase in in velocity now and it also substantially changes it is energy coefficient I'll say I'll say categorically that's it absolutely no consequence whatsoever to The Deer Hunter The Deer Hunter no deer will ever will he'll complain about the difference in velocity or energy um 150 grain bullet really it's a very poor choice for the 300 Winchester Magnum are you talking about developing over 30 to 90 feet per second with factory loads 30 to 90 is an explosive velocity one of strikes when a strike tissue it most it most ranges by the time by the time that bullet strikes even way out there to it 280 or 350 yards you still hitting it you clobbering that deer it it extremely high velocities now that three hundred and seventy feet per second one would imagine that that three hundred and seventy feet per second would translate to a significantly longer range of countries well it really doesn't not not in not in terms that many people would expect remember we're talking about ballistics sales points here to raise the level of velocity up three hundred and seventy feet per second sounds like a sounds like a huge difference in terms of ballistic effect well the terms of ballistic effect for the same exact bullet coefficient comparing hundred fifty grain bullets in the 3006 to the 100 50 rainbows in the the 300 Winchester Magnum although if you're comparing hundred 80 grain balls if you're comparing both of the same bullet to coefficient and the same shape that the actual difference in actual trajectory and point-blank trajectory is only 110 yards or so 100 210 yards that's a lot 110 yards is a lot of your if you're shooting a game out in the plains and you know the difference between having a cartridge which basically talks out at 300 yards versus the cartridge that tops out at 400 yards can can mean the difference between bringing home game that day but if you're not shooting at 300 or 400 yards it's a moot point it's it's of no concern whatsoever and again I say that you know you don't you don't shoot deer the third with 300 Winchester Magnum and have much to take home if you're if you're shooting the 330 290 feet per second model velocity with hundred fifty green bullets is just simply too fast if they act like a varmint bought even they have you even the heaviest bullet this is where as I said with the 3006 the 3006 comes into its own with the heavier bullets such as the case with the 300 Winchester Magnum the 300 Winchester Magnum [Music] it suffered by it suffers theoretically with a very very short neck the the neck of a 300 Win shot the 300 Winchester Magnum is it is almost like the 300 Savage in terms of its short squat neck it's not quite as short as the 300 savage but it's it's not it's not as long as most designers would have liked if they if they could if they could just have any length action but when this cartridge was developed winch up to the goal were to be able to put this cartridge into a standard length action without a lawn at what they call an extra-long action such as some of the Holland & Holland cartridges needed so they wanted to be able to use they wanted to be able to use the same overall length you feel look between the 3006 and the 300 Winchester Magnum it's the same roughly the same overall length so they can be they can be fired in a standard length action and that was that was what predicated this short neck would because they want to fill this boiler room capacity up as far as they could with it gentle a taper as they possibly could manage and still and still have good extraction and feeding so they maximized everything with within the potential of that case head diameter and so they arrived at this and even though the theoretical length of that case neck is not as long as many people would like it to be it turns out to be one of the most accurate cartridges that was ever designed it's it's among its among the top tier accuracy cartridges ever designed not that somebody wants to sit at a bench all day and shoot it as an accuracy cosmic but it's a very very efficient cartridge now because it has such a huge amount of case capacity it also has a little bit more fudge room to be able to put heavier bullet into it so you can you can load it's classic its classic elk bullet weight it tends to be the hundred eighty that's what it seems most people tend to pick 180 green bullet for elk and it does it does a very nice job myself I prefer that I prefer the longer 200 grain bullet and even though it gets down into the boiler room somewhat this case capacity is so big it effectively doesn't it doesn't really do much damage to the velocity my load if I can recall offhand my that to our grain bulb with my steak or when running around twenty nine hundred and fifty feet per second it wasn't running it was running with a hundred with a two hundred grain bullet I was running as fast as the 308 does with a hundred fifty grain bullet so it was a it was a very very stout performer run on Elk I don't want to have anybody think that I am diminishing any concrete of the three from the other they all date if I had three thumbs that give them off I'd give three thumbs up they're all fabulous cartridges they deserve the place that they hold in in our firearms world they in the 30 in the 30 caliber bore size they they all excel in their own particular usage the there is no there is no difference in bore diameter between them they all they all shoot 308 diameter both it's just a matter of how fast they shoot them in the ways that they can handle the amount of bullet weight that they can handle so that's that's what death would basically set one apart from the other if you're if you're a elk if you're an elk hunter you know you can't you can't do any better than the 300 Winchester Magnum for elk there are cartridges that you can get that a bigger bore that will do more substantial damage you can get a 338 Winchester Magnum and things like that you can shoot eight millimeter bullets you can go on and on and discuss these issues at length but you know 300 Winchester Magnum will drop an elk as handily as any cartridge out there with the appropriate both and with ample ample energy not just not just efficient energy but ample and you remember that many many alka taken every single year with to 70s 150 green bullets and some people even use 130 green bullets that are appropriately sized so there's no there is no loss whatsoever of efficiency or capacity when it comes to that sort of usage but most offer anything I consider 30 caliber most most people would most experienced hunters and I've never gone after dangerous bear but myself I you know I don't have that kind of money to throw at it but if you know if I if I was shooting if I were going after live bear I would take the I would take the advice advice of most guides who would in those regions who would recommend heavier bore diameter not not it's not the speed that drops those big guys from what I understand it's it's the bone busting capacity the amount of the amount of capability of a really cracking lark bone tissue and and destroying the animal's ability to run after you so those are the big issues but in all other regards I would consider the 300 to be more than more than substantial for any kind of game in America it's probably one of the very very best cartridges for long range shots on the elk up to 350 to 400 yards I simply do not take you off beyond 400 yards are definitely no need to you can always you can always get yourself a little closer and I think that you just simply you're simply risking too much because wind can win can viewer pull it off and you missing the game as the big does no issue at all if you missed you missed but if you happen to if you happen this shoot holster with intestines he's going to run for you've got to run from mild before he finally collapses he's going to die without bleeding very much and so you've lost an elk valuable valuable game animals lost to America but so I dismiss anybody shooting elk beyond 350 to 400 yards and I don't I don't encourage that sport I think it's I think it's a foolhardy and I think it's it causes a lot of unnecessary waste I I see it all the time on YouTube I really think it's ethically irresponsible but it's the 300 of the fabulous characters for that particular usage the 3006 still stands as probably the supreme cartridge when it when it comes down to all measurements that the 3006 really stands with being one of the most venerated cartridges for all-purpose uses you know the guy who had the 3006 is very well equipped for anything on the on the u.s. continent he can he can handle anything it's not laundering shooting is a 270 is not long range shooting is a seven millimeter magnum or any of those but it will certainly handle any of the same game as far and actually farther in many cases as substantial bullet weights it has terrific frontal area it's a stellar performer in all regards it's a little bit less than the 300 Winchester Magnum for don't a super long shots we need to drive in deep but it's not it's not substantially less you know which is still talking only a difference of 100 yards of point-blank trajectory but the energy factor really is of no concern no consequence because the 200 grain or 180 grain bullet out of with 3006 is going to take your deck it's going to take the game down no matter what it is the 308 probably is probably over capacity for the average deer hunter you don't really need to have a 30 caliber for to take down dear but certainly it's great cartridge for you know the reason why the service 308 has stood the march of time so well is the same as all other military cartridges it just simply is available you can always get you can always get three wait if you if you go into the big-box stores that sell guns they always have 3006 and 308 on the Shelf issue you know they have they have three or four calibers and no big stores and those are the ones they always have the 308 the 3006 and maybe a couple of others that sunmo meet imagine the 300 those are the ones they always sell the other were popular ones so you know you if you have if you have a need for a heavy hitting deer characters that you don't have to worry about you know shooting shooting through twigs on occasion there's nothing there's nothing better than 308 for that sort of usage so I give I give my hands off to the designers of each of these three cartridges the 308 which was which had been around now since 1952 253 the 3006 that's been around centrally since 1903 and the 300 Winchester Magnum that had been arrives in 1963 all great cartridges thanks for watching and don't forget to subscribe god bless
