The 6.5mm and .264 Caliber Cartridges

welcome back I get quite a lot of questions daily by email from people who are interested in me entering certain questions for one thing or another and it's a wide range of issues and those are the questions that very frequently spawn some of the videos that I do and in that vein I'm going to answer some of the questions that I have received about some of the various six-point-five cartridges that are of note let me first of all make this disclaimer I have never owned nor have I ever had any experience practical experience with any of the 6.5 s and that includes the 254 diameter boards like the 250 Remington and conferences such as that I'm simply going to go through the ballistic comparisons and explain what I see and what would I know of them but you have to understand that you know I can't I I'm a I'm a practical shooter and I purchased I purchased a gun that I have favored over the years that I have selected for the reason that I need and not necessarily for frivolous reasons so I don't I don't possess I don't possess knowledge of all of all cartridges from a practical standpoint however all that being said I certainly have a practical understanding and practical knowledge of what similar Contras are crafted with bracket of a caucus perform how they perform like what they do and from that you can you can deduce very very easily in whatever expectations you might have or realize from different countries that you have no experience with the 6.5 diameter again that that includes death the same exact board diameter of 264 inch and that includes names such as the 260 Remington or whatever they were all the same bore diameter the history of the 6.5 cartridges in this country had been rather spotty at best in the last in the last 20 or so years popularity has increased on a on a gradual slide right now we're seeing what appears to be some some solid interest in some of these six point five cartridges most especially the six point five cream or the 260 Remington and the six one occasion the state point five sweet those seem to be the ones that have generated the most interest in the in the mail that I have received now that certainly not all-inclusive there there are others the six point five R and L things like that but for the most part I'm talking about the ones that I receive most most of the questions about and my audience you know is is globulin so in other words I I receive questions from people not only from the United States but from from parts abroad which relate to cartridges that are more popular the other six point five swede is barely barely known in this country at all but in europe it's quite a popular country and it's very very well known for being a big game sport a catholic medium to medium to life games border crackers but let me go over a little bit of the history of the six point five and you might possibly be able to see some of them some of the reason behind this lack of popularity in this country two of the most notable six point five of all time the six point five me liquor Carcano which is one hundred and sixty two green round knowit bullet we do it by the fascist italian government you know in with the Axis forces against the United States during World War two that didn't raise it that didn't raise the popularity quotient among patriotic servicemen who sometimes brought them back but I stuck them in the wall cabinet more look more as a trophy but there was not something that they wanted to go hunting with and the other one of note with the 6.5 Japanese our psycho rifle and the Japanese of the arasaka used a different approach to use a 139 ring bullet and with a Spitzer point bullet you know there was a very effective cartridge against US forces in the Pacific so again we had two cartridges that had you know they had a very uh notorious reputation and were not well recognized at being American sport of cartridges there had been in my in my view there had been a reluctance in America for people to get too excited about metric designations I don't know why that isn't as it probably is a lot of psychology involved but you know in speaking with and speaking with people in my lifetime around you know around a table about guns sitting in living rooms and talking about guns I can tell you that there's a certain disdain for metric measurement that was you know existing through the years until just fairly recently Americans are a very patriotic Bunch and you know they liked it they liked their own numbers like 30 caliber 308 and things like that they just they in or 22 when you start talking about metric numbers to some people my age or older very oftentimes their eyes glaze over they just simply for was that the one thing they don't necessarily understand what the sizing system is it's not it's not something that they can readily identify in their in their thinking so if you if you have saved the average person which is bigger or 6.5 or 25 caliber they many times they wouldn't have a clue so that there's no no relational there's no relational number like 25 going to 27 to 28 and 30 32 so forth those are the numbers that Americans typically understand and relate to so when you get into metric number they sometimes they get a little bit funny about it understandably and they rejected the metric numbering system back during the change from the contra administration to the Reagan administration you know Reagan basically threw it out he said when I can have that destiny he said that that was a not that was not an American thing to do to what disavowing to toss out our numbering system that we had used in terms of inches and just into turn inches into the metrics so but all that aside that's one of the reason why I think you know metric cartridges in this country have never really taken off that's one of the many reasons another reason I think it's simply that there were you know there were it's hard to unseat a popular group of cartridges this is always been largely a 30 caliber country when it came to deer rifles 30 caliber really rolls a day that was Willard was the 3006 or the 308 or the you know 3040 Craig that came before it or the 3030 you know some people would put up with a 32 or something like that but for the most practice of the 30 caliber nation and 22 is also 22 so it almost anybody gun cabinet one rolling up would have a shotgun and a 22 in authority those were those were the things that everybody owned and that things that everybody gravitated to it and just weird it just were of the wife of that mark is pretty tough you know you're talking about inertia here Remington made some I think some attempts at introducing 6.5 designations into the market and for the most part they they fought the six millimeter Remington is now his out of the 6.5 Remington Magnum perhaps you've never even heard of it you know it it was a flash in the pan I'm not even sure for what much it will flash that was that was another flop they had they had immediately difficulties when they changed the Tweety Remington name to the seven millimeter expressed back quite a number years ago back in the 70s that caused all kinds of confrontation and key for people were unwittingly mind seven millimeter expressed in confusing it for the seven millimeter Remington Magnum and you know they have all kind of serious issues so they had to they had to scrap that name and go back to the 280 Remington there but there have been through the years many different attempts to introduce 6.5 convert it to the American scene and they were met with some some degree of resistance I'll give another example of another metric that very very quickly failed and that was the down with the 6.8 remington spc now that was a copy which was ostensibly designed for military use especially in you know to generate higher power and you know a little bit more a little bit more energy and hitting power than the 223 the 5.56 nato round and it was designed to be usable in the standard AR platform but you know again because i believe that there was a serious problem with Remington's decision to call it a six point eight nobody nobody knew that a six point eight was the same number as 277 the same number of the 270 Winchester if they had known that it was the same diameter bore the 270 maybe maybe it would have had a chance to survive but you know six point eight was a number that just popped in out of this guy and had no relationship whatsoever to anything that people understood but I want to talk about the three principal cartridges that I first mentioned is the 250 Remington the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5 by 55 swede those are the ones that i seem to get the most popular questions about the first the first one on the scene and the oldest on the scene is the 6.5 by 55 suite as I mentioned that's a very popular conference in especially in Scandinavia it's used for it's used for any any game up to and including their moose which is very similar to our most creature it's um it's carpet which has a very very good penetration I had a very very long bullet it was based on a it was based on initial military bullet length of 100 safety grains and therefore it had very very fast with a can really any bullet weight from the very latest from below 120 grand our way up to all the way to the 160 grain bullet even down to 100 100 grand bullet so it has very very broad very broad stabilization the the concrete is barely known in this country a munitions seem to be readily available from what the manufacturer than 140 green 140 green loading typically which is more than probably more than sufficient for deer the 120 green bullet in a 6.5 or 264 bore diameter is most closely aligned with 130 grain in a 270 or 140 grain in a 7 millimeter so in other words that would be the natural as the bore diameter increases the weight of the bullet increases for what you say is a similar corresponding bullet to coefficients and similar corresponding sectional density they're not identical but nevertheless this this is this is the progression progression so if you're looking for if you're looking for penetration and ballistic flight similarities the ability to you know carry through the year with the same resistance level basically a hundred twenty grain 6.5 bullet corresponds similarly to a hundred thirty grain 270 bullet D corresponds very similarly to 100 grain six millimeter bullet very similarly to a 140 green seven millimeter bullet and 165 grain 308 diameter bullets don't know where the fits death death where it fits in that thing pack if you want to have greater penetration or if you want to have bread and whether through flesh or through the air so that pull it through the atmosphere then you simply select longer well that would have to be driven if slightly slower velocity that you progress because they do increase the weight of the bullet naturally that the amount of the powder charge has to be reduced to keep the pressures in line and it reduced reduce the pressures and if you increase the resistance of the bullet then the velocity goes down so everything everything is always it's a give-and-take in ballistics the but the 6.5 was a very popular cartridge in in Europe and it's a very very proven well proven Congress where they had been taking you know sizable game through the years now I can't testify - I can't testify to how confidently it takes moose I know that there are those that have written to me that say that I it's a very very capable moose concrete and I after it I have to take them for their word on that and there's no reason to disbelieve that now I will say from the very GetGo that there is a we can never simply assign we can never simply assign both bullet and cartridge effectiveness according to its ability to penetrate penetration is only one of two one of the factors that puts an animal down the the ability for a bullet to expand sufficiently to cause to cause tissue destruction is the most important thing of all both the fail to expand and cause tissue destruction is basically going to pass through unimpeded that's going to cause very little very little bleeding or very slow bleeding which will leave lead to a wounded animal that will probably die shortly but it may may certainly escape or could cause an awful lot of aggravation to finding by the time are you tracking down so there is a relationship between bore diameter and sectional density at well there are two there there are two primary things that you have keep in mind when you're dealing with with with congregate head as concrete board that board diameter goes down sectional density tends to become more relevant and more important in the scheme of things you know that's why that's why the 150 green 150 green bullet has got relatively poor ballistic coefficient has got relatively poor sectional density for driving through flesh because of it because of any factor that's on in other words it doesn't have it doesn't have an awful lot of length it's a very stubby short bullet length compared to the say 130 grain through 70 bullet or 140 green 7 millimeter both or 120 grain 6.5 bullet but what it does is that with the average with the average 30 caliber character of concrete such as a 308 of the 3006 or such it drives through by brute force in other words the energy is what propelled it through the flesh so this is this is what you have to keep in mind at you as you compare countries you can't simply compare conferences in a vacuum according to sectional density and ballistic coefficients and I also know in talking about C or we do know we do know that the 6.5 from historic performance performed apparently adequately and well on reliably on deer side game at least at the very least we certainly can attest to that by comparing it to a concrete which is much smaller 100 green bullet with a a 243 or 100 grain or 90 green bullet in at 243 bore is a very capable and proficient deer gather so you know making sure that you know that you're avoiding live bone and tissue and things like that because that doesn't bullet which doesn't have quite the carrying capability and smashing power to get through heavy structures of animal but deer are not that heavily constructed so it's not it's not a huge issue but if you if you go to the next country we have this packages that have been around now for a little while the 260 had been up to 50 when Remington had been around now for quite a number of years and the 260 Remington is you know made a pretty good it had pretty good success in Sony it's um it's a concrete which is based on the 308 Winchester case and that that concrete being based on the 308 Winchester case falls in line with the whole family of cottages which work very fast fabulously in other words the 243 Winchester it it's off the 267 millimeter oh eight and the 308 and this and Wildcats was larger bullets diameters so if it's a carpet which is a very very based on a very broad good wine with powder capacity and is easily ignited works well with a broad range of colors and it's almost always accurate you know and inaccurate 308 or an inaccurate 243 is far more accurate than some of the most accurate loads and some of the concrete is so it's just one of those it's just one of those combinations that the military of the US military in Winchester put together back in 1953 that really worked out very well and has been used as a good platform for other development so the 260 Remington of the fabulous did based on a fabulous Concord site I had good it had good performance velocity wise 120 grain bullet is driven can be driven at roughly a little over 3,000 feet per second which is a very very good it's a very good speed to you know cover ground and with a bullet which has got a symbol of ballistic shape of the 270 Winchester you know that it can cover it can cover that ground and because it has it it has a slightly better ballistic coefficient it it almost keeps up with the 270 what now you might say well I think it would go faster well good because it hasn't slightly better ballistic shape well that's theoretical but the 270 remember can be driven at faster speeds it can be driven at about 150 feet per second faster so it still has its don't have to catch up with the 270 and inside inside hunting range of normal hunting ranges of up to 350 to 400 yards it's it never really catches up to the 270 but it doesn't it does a very a quick job of getting within about 4 inches or so in a trajectory height over 400 yards and that's a that's a notable accomplishment so it's a very long range conference and if you if you kick the bullet if you kick the bullet weight up or down you can want to find that velocity a little bit if you want to walk to a you know 129 green bullet it'll slow velocity down which makes it a far better performer in woodland situations you know you don't want to have you know what I've said that many times before you don't want to have excessive you don't want to have excessive velocity when you're in close and you still just don't close to the 3000 foot per second mark you've got you've got an awful lot of tissue destruction which is unnecessary and can lead to you know unnecessary meat loss so on game eum's ever if you're tell contour certainly that's the last thing you want you don't want to have destruction of health material so you know if you wait ooh control the weight of control velocity if your hand loading is simply load down a little bit you don't have to load all whether the top of the book load down a little bit and keep your velocity of Mother Blasi down to 27 2,800 feet per second or so can you'll have a stellar performer on deer and you'll have no excess meat destruction when you need to get out farther than then you you know you kick the kick the bush to it now leave then what are the most popular country still appeared over the three to be in this country that the 260 I recently did a and I'm not speaking off the top my head what I did was I I went to a woman I went to a very large supplier us supplier of firearms and I stretched for rifles according today they supply everything all different brands there's no there's no brand that I could see that they don't represent so they sell them they sell them all and when when I looked for rifles according to two caliber designation this is what I arrived at for the this is this is actually the ascending list of availability right now in other words I organized was on a spreadsheet and it comes out in this order so the six millimeter Remington currently no rifles in production or available the 257 Roberts did one currently available and that doesn't mean that they're necessarily in stock or anything like that I'm not inclined with depth but this is this is um this is just a this is the list of rifles that were currently catalogue seven millimeter Remington ultra mega three I would say that that's I wouldn't want to be I wouldn't want to be full month of my ultramatic very long because I have a feeling that a munition basically vanished from the scene pretty film that you know a concrete which is any concrete which is like that in all eight to seven D a classic example 222 Remington Magnum when when it fell out of popularity Remington eventually and all the other cartridge manufacturers to eventually start making the 222 Remington Magnum cartridge and you can't get brass for once it's gone it can't be made for anything else so thermo meter automatic is 3 the 264 Winchester Magnum which was at one time that was a that was a popular gun that down before rifle that are currently cattle art this 6.8 spc Remington for 6.5 Grindle get a load of this one five that's not something I'd be rushing out to buy that's going to be that's again that's going to be at the end very soon now that you know I'm not talking about please don't write me a nasty letter and say the 6.5 Grendel doesn't work a 6.5 window works fabulously it's just not going to it doesn't it's not going to be around very long at all you know Congress popularity has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with boast efficiency or hunting effective nothing it two separate issues you know some of the very best cartridges that have ever been on on the market have simply vanished from the scene because nobody wanted them if you know if you have to go by the popular vote if people don't want and they're not buying it you can't expect a manufacturer to keep chamber and rifle for a gun that's not going to that's not going to sell and you can't expect distributors to take a chance in the world of something that nobody is ever going to buy to 6.5 by 284 norm another in the Congress for you that does a fabulous performer that probably that probably won't that was one of the more popular long-range thousand thousand-yard cartridges because it you know it was based on the 24-hour case winchester case which had a rebated rim that was originally designed to be a competitor to lead to 72 in a short action in the model 88 in the model 100 Winchester the auto and Laurel attraction the auto that was a that was a concrete which could be used with a standard 3006 or 308 both faith but it had a rebated rim meaning that the body of the case was larger than the the rim itself and they were able to up the capacity of the case so that it had similar ballistic performance as the 270 Winchester it never took off it never it never really did much but you know wildcatters saw that as an opportunity to neck it down and they necked it down to 6.5 and ended up with a very very capable long range performer on thousand-yard magic but again it's it is down to eight rifles and production cattle horn that I could find the 280 Remington one of the more popular cartridges that Remington had in the in the 60s and 70s that's now down to 11 rifles it seems to refuse to die but it is you know it's breathing its last breath I think I wouldn't expect it to be around much longer the 6.5 Swede I found 13 and mostly they were they were gone domestic you know like tikka and a few things like that and very usually they were and there were variations of the same things with different stocks designed with different configuration by than that is pretty much the same brands here's one for you that now we're jumping up with that was 13 now we're jumping up to 50/50 rifle so the different these are a little bit more popular but this is the 270 Winchester short Magnum the to safety Remington is virtual dead heat with 50 for the 300 Winchester short Magnum 55 the 2506 Remington 56 okay so all those cartridges seem to be you know they're there I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say as they take atop the popularity charts as I read along proudly you'll see the ones that what the numbers are forgotten to have some real popularity the 6.5 Creedmoor is listed at 73 but I'm to tell you right off the bat the 21 of those are made by Bearer that start up like $3,600 from a discount house and they go up from there you know like $6,000 like that these are not these are not rifles that are jumping off the shelves for the average hunter nobody nobody that I know walks around the woods with a $4,000 rifle it's just not it's just not something that being done for those 7324 full 21 of them are high-grade Barataria trifled with you know a our platforms quite a number another another half of the remaining 50 on our Barrett or even similar style with a our style platforms there are very very few there were very few that actually exist most of them are by Ruger and stuff like does it exist in the in this border and the sport of platform and a bolt-action rifle platform so it desk used the number so it's a more it's more closely you could you could say that it actually falls in practical number that actually fall behind the 260 Remington if you compare sport or grade rifles that fall behind the 260 Roman control that's 73 that 73 is skewed by the fact that better make 21 by themselves 7 millimeter Remington Magnum jumps up to 108 so we're going from we're going from the 50s and that's what I put discreet more than the 50s because because of that skewing by one manufacturer but the cream more jumps up to 100 I mean you get some only two Remington back jumps up to 108 the use of star a number of these are popular rifles the 7 millimeter awake 125 goes from 108 to 125 then the 300 Winchester Magnum 153 now you remember that most of most of the rifles that are made for these cartridges are sporting grade rifles there are a few there a few classifications that you'd say a more like military platform probably talking here in a supportive rate roughly 270 winch at 154 so 300 Win Mag 153 270 Winchester I mean that's the debt he does a statistical dead heat I would suspect that the wind mag probably has a few military style rifles mixed in with the with it whereas the 270 is almost entirely virtually entirely you know sport grade rifles so for sporter i would have to put the 270 significantly ahead and the 3006 Springfield is where you'd expected to be with 160 the 243 200 deaths that is old that's a big number because almost all those the sport of grade rifles there are a few there were few AR that are mixed in but for the most part if sport agreed now the 308 Winchester yet another one that's very very skewed because it is listed at $529,000 that is the large frame AR style platform and that's desert that's a cartridge which does very very well sales wise in in that format in that auto rifle format so but in sport or grade rifles it ranks similarly to the 243 and then again the 5.56 nato 2 to 3 Remington I mean as way-off-the-charts that's 829 that will listed in that one company's cataloguing but only 175 to 200 of those a sport that I could count on I didn't meticulously count of all but I mean estimation I could see about 175 to 200 of those two to three /or 5.56 nato cartridge at work i be able to one sport it so you can see where the popularity lies and everything else remember those remember those other numbers of 6.5 Grendel it's not even worthy of about right now because that was a conflict which was rejected by the military when it was introduced and and you know they it was it was purportedly going to be you know the replacement to the to the 223 the 5.56 nato for the military and they simply didn't buy it the things that were the same thing that happens at 6.8 spc they didn't buy it once once the government says nixed to it that's the end of it all the rationale behind its existence his feet it has it has okay it had okay time well the 6.5 grand oh it has okay ballistic performance for for rough for dear but you know it's this numbers of down there you know 2,400 ft/s women with a boat like that it's just it doesn't really have i I don't care what the books say I simply like to have a little bit more gun with me and there's no reason not to there's too many cartridges out there that did have far better performance would cost a lot of left off the shelf with brass that's available and a gun is not going to become extinct overnight on me so the 6.5 cream or the 250 Remington and the 6.5 by 55 sweet oh the one that we're dealing with they all if loaded to capacity if loaded if loaded to capacity the 6.5 Swede does not need to be the the 2400 to 2500 foot per second underperformer that it is in this country in Europe it is you know in Scandinavia is loaded to us much greater potential and that's probably illogical because in that country in those countries in Sweden and Norway in place like that we're talking about a rifle which is currently in production in sport of great rifles and so they can they can fill that case capacity up to us to a standard amount of pressure and get a good perform right of the three country that is that has significantly larger powder then the 6.5 Creedmoor has significantly more powder capacity than the two safety the 264 rip between the two nodes 6.53 more 260 roman 6.5 sweet dust the powder capacity product passed the rule today when it comes to velocity in a standard in a standard rifle when you have a rifle which is strong and capable of taking full pressures than they're all the same now there's no difference between them they all those three cartridges run it exactly the same muzzle velocity within a few feet per second that means means absolutely nothing anything less than anything less than 100 feet per second is of no consequence whatsoever and they all run within about 25 feet per second 25 feet per second is that's that's less than the variation between the high and the low velocity in a given string so that's a discount we'll figure the they all have they all have more than sufficient killing power on deer you know get bigger than bigger than me 243 which has taken you know countless thousands of deer reliably they have they have more than adequate penetration on that side game we have the testimony from people who hunt with the 6.5 suite in in Scandinavia that it takes the deer moose reliably so there's no reason not just to suspected it's you know an underperformer in any way now let me talk about the its ballistic its exterior ballistic performance this is where it receives a lot of you know positive notoriety is because it has they have very long they have the capability of having very long bullets but let me say something about that so does the set of the three own you know the the 308 diameter boards and the sunmo made of boards and all these other countries they all have the capability of firing you know super-lon high performance long range bullet but those are not necessarily the bullets one wants to carry a field on on the game so you know having adequate having ample penetration is all you need you don't need to use up wrong till materials in you certainly you're adding to the rainbow effect whenever you boost the length of the length of a bullet goes up and the rainbow becomes more pronounced now over a long span of flight I'm going to I'm going to delineate now we're going to be talking about target performance versus hunting performance in never the twain shall meet please do not do not try to confuse target performance laundry tired performance with with typical hunting range performance and gain gain iam performance it quite different target great bullets are designed for one thing only in desperate death for making a market a piece of paper downrange will hold it that's all what to do and the the ability for a lawn bullet to have a high ballistic coefficient will reduce its wind drift and give it better predictability at arriving on target without drifting off target I'm personally using a no table scope and a shooting at known ranges that he can compute he couldn't care less about the sloped trajectory how how fast I both descending into the target he knows exactly with a bullet and the paper were going to intersect so that's a no-brainer the only thing he's really concerned with the thing that will separate him from the guy beside him is how much the bullet veered off target due to unseen wind that occurred between him and the target so in the course of a thousand-yard flight well can encounter rivers of wind which can cause that bullet of beer on route to the target and cause you know call it wide dispersion on the paper so this is this is the reason that the rationale behind having lon efficient bullet ballistic coefficients that will have helped thwart that error but you know within within reasonable hunting ranges of up to 400 yards those those differences tend to be minimal and the thing that becomes more difficult for the average hunter who doesn't have the opportunity to consult his ballistic tables and his computer and everything of the there it is that game is standing there and you've got about a second or two to take aim and shoot so you know you using what's called point-blank trajectory and I've spoken about point-blank trajectory before now I'll do a video on that especially and talk about that but this is what the hunting the hunting person who is hunting wild game game that is not positioned and you know does not take stationary positions this is what he has to rely on as a point point game anybody who go to field thinking that you can start computing this stuff is basically you're in the wrong game that's target stuff that's nice of stuff and all the other things but good hunter will simply know that is point blank range will put a bullet on target without having to dial norm and all that stuff so in in that respect all the six point five that I discussed all perform at the week on the way to the target they all have slightly slightly more sloped slightly more rainbow trajectory than say the two the winchester 107 107 polit not much not much different about within within three to four inches with standard hunting weight both and if you use a lighter weight bullet it probably they probably even exceed the performance of the 270 on on target at those ranges about to 400 yards of yards but they're all all those thing copies are all going to strike a Point Blank Point Blank target you know will point blindfold so it's it's a moot point as I would say you know if it hits the target the shooting at it hit the target that you're shooting at now you have to consider that now I'm again I'm using the disclaimer I'm not a I'm not a 6.5 user I had no experience with it but I can I can relate to what a a good guide of mine name button romp told me one day we're sitting having lunch after we had taken them taking an elk of Northeast New Mexico I asked him I said what do you think about what you think about different bore diameters and this is what he said not here he here the guy who has accompanied hundreds of people through the years on basically trophy outcomes yeah he was a guy who was in his late forties when he was taking me out he had been on hundreds of Alcott's not including not including the ones that the hundreds that the different house that he had done on at home through the West but he said there was a direct relationship between board diameter and the speed at which of animal basically succumbed and went down he said there was no question that you know when what he was in when he was in woodland country and the higher the higher wood from the one the elk are up into the thief's Timbers he said he never wanted to have anything less this is what he called you said he never wanted to have anything less than the 30 caliber Bourdain was simply because he wanted be able to get that he wanted to go get that big guy down in a hurry without having to try to find him in the woods remember that you don't just simply track an elk in such a country because this is this side of the tracks everywhere I did there you know it really it's a it's like it's like the firework display just got out and everybody has trapped up the place we leaving all kinds of litter that I've never seen anything like it when you're in our country there are tracks going in all different directions you can't just simply say well I'm going to track my game until I get it doesn't work that way and so he wanted to he says you always wanted to have a board diameter of 30 caliber or more to get the guy down now he said as the board size got down he said the animal went a little bit farther with each graduation down the left he said they went a little farther whether it was seven though me to bore diameter going down to list of you know 6.5 going down the lifted - he said he absolutely would not go over the guy who was taking such small calibers of 240 degrees or anything like that regardless of what length bullet they were use yeah he said you know such there's no such thing as an oak that will give much thought to that small bullet hole going through him he's got it he's going to take off and you got to go a long way they said so death that had nothing to do with whether the animal dies are not certainly any you know any animal that's so wounded is going to die or suffer agonizing deaths at some point down the line but you know you're talking about effectiveness so that leads me to that leads me to conclude that you know you have you have to place the six point five in its proper perspective against the other cartridges that are on the scene it to me to me it would be the ideal cartridge any one of those six point five would be the ideal conference for a person would be young shooter you know perhaps a a woman who doesn't have the capacity of the lighting but for a heavy recoil and cartridges you don't mean it may very well be the ticket having said that you know most deaths that's only an eighth group which only lasts for so long you know so whatever your investment is you have to compute that again you know how long it's going to be necessary I've seen quite a number of you know fairly stout kids it can handle the seven millimeter row eight and the submillimetre all weight has very very similar jek to any of the 6.5 the seven millimeter away with 140 grain bullet has got home with identical trajectory up to four hundred yards to the to the 6.5 with a bullet horse weighs 140 grains and and the thing is is that you you know 140 grains of $7 meter bore diameter has more effect on game than 140 grain to a longer bullet that the Pierces more but has less to have less surface destruction in the frontal area so it's all about frontal area with bullets that's what that's why that's why you know in Africa you know in many of the hunting districts in Africa they simply require certain caliber cartridges because they have to have they require a certain amount of tissue destruction just simply by virtue of the diameter of boar so these are all these are all parts of the equation that you can only put together and I can't I can't answer for you but there's certainly viable any of the 6.5 a very viable now I've so they're they're excellent ballistically there's no question about that you know just what you what you decide to use them for is is something that only you can decide I can't I can't give you any recommendations based on my own bacon and use that is and I can I can certainly tell you what I what I would think about purchasing one and that would be based upon its eventual on Germany and often balanced against what what's already out there because you know in this country we don't have we don't have a shortage of cartridges that are capable of getting out to 400 yards very accurately on game and hitting with sufficient power and penetration so there's no I'm not I'm not required to look at a 6.5 I can always look at a seven millimeter oh wait I can look at it I can look at a 270 I could even look at it you know a 280 Remington or anything like that or 3006 300 Winchester Magnum I no matter whether it go up to scale down the scale is that this is plenty of stuff out there this is the thing that I always look at is the fact that is the fact that you know these concrete you don't they don't look like they have that much staying power on the market we do know that the 2506 remington have got a pretty popular it's got a it's got kind of like a club for people that always are there's always independent group of in a group group of a dozen people you're going to find somebody who love to 2506 because it's a flat student cartridge that get way out there with with our bullets of adequate penetration and capability it's not a it's not it's not according to what I was talking about with my game guy is not a cartridge that I would use on elk except maybe open look why expensive where he can be readily tracked never not necessarily where ever found either but you know you're talking about you're talking about popularity now popularity rules what the concrete manufacturers will and the rifle manufacturers will stick to with it if if the concrete is enough flying off the shelf is it turning yellow and they have to keep changing the price tag on on the end barks - you know to satisfy somebody that might come in the door someday you're not going to keep it around much longer and that's what I see for that's what I see for the 6.5 did it tends to be you know an eye and I'm not trying to push I'm not trying to push their demise I mean I hope I love all kinds I love all guns doesn't make any difference on the L shoot anything somebody give me to shoot but whether I go buying it quite another thing I did having you know having an investment in a gun is a big deal you putting a scope on it four miles under it you know keep it you have to take up real estate in your safe all those things considered I always look to a cartridge which is going to be around a while so that I know that they can always get ammo for it and brass for that wood one thing I didn't bring up with the the 260 remin conversely the other tool the 260 Remington to me between in the comparison between the three of the no-brainer because simply is a 308 case so brass is always going to be available units that even if the gun becomes extinct you're always going to be able to get breast and the fact that you were always going to be able to get brass means you're never going to be without the ammunition the same cannot be said for the 6.5 Creedmoor which has got a peculiar brass case all to its own and it certainly cannot be said for the state point-five Swede in this country now you would always be able to go abroad and perhaps find you know mo that you could import and get but you know you're adding a complexity to the issue the 260 is you know as far as factory ammunition goes whether the factory ammunition exists in the future or not is is irrelevant if you can always get the breasts so that's really about all I have to say I I think it's a great I think it's a great board diameter I think it was widely overlooked by just by hunters for a very long time and I'm not sure that that's going to change much in the 50th or future I see some according to the people that write me I see some popularity and some interest in it that is in comparison to the interest that I give for other cartridges if all the problem in the same position is s it's not nearly it not nearly as much interest in those contributions they'll consider those things when you're you know I was shopping and what it is that you're going to be using it for if I were looking to if I were looking to have the ultimate law and range target rifle I don't think you get much better than the 6.53 more that stretches way way out there and had very very good wind resistance the by the way the manufacturers you know are spotty on these cartridges Winchester does not for instance stock the 260 Remington it's strictly a proprietary interest to the Remington and a few other country companies Winchester also only stocks 6.53 more in 140 greenbacks bullet which is not suitable for hunting so if Europe match if you're a mass shooter and you know and you like to buy factory loaded matching munitions factory loaded prices then that's death the company that's one of the companies that would be able to provide that way but they have no they have no hunting great bullets so they Winchester or the corporation has categorized the 6.5 pre-war at what it was originally designed for which was an across of course Concord and it was it was designed for the target shooter long range target shooter so there it is in a nutshell I don't want to upset anybody I'm just simply providing the facts as they see them and simply outlined all the things that I do know about the 6.5 and the 264 bore and how they relate to to my world and that's it so thank you for watching please don't forget to subscribe god bless

Channel: GunBlue490

Views: 97,780

Rating: 4.8792453 out of 5

Keywords: .260 Remington, 6.5 Swede, 6.5x55, 6.5 creedmore, 264 winchester magnum, 6.5 grendel, 6.8 spc, 270, 280, 300, rifle, cartridge, cases, long, range, target, accurate, ballistic, coefficient, sectional density

Id: I0H-xOgMDew

Length: 52min 51sec (3171 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 29 2016