The Prophecies of Joseph Smith, by James Walker

Thank You Kari it's a great honor to be with you guys and to be invited to be at this capstone and I'm very encouraged by the turnout and the people who are interested in understanding more about latter-day saints in order to reach out to their Mormon friends and neighbors with the true gospel of Jesus Christ I'm going to be speaking today on testing the Mormon prophets now we do have a handout a workbook a documentation guide that goes with this looks kind of like this and be honest with you we didn't have enough for everyone so I'm going to ask you to be friendly and kind of share this with the person next to you if you cannot look on to the person next to you and kind of follow along if you'll raise your hand and we'll try to spread out the ones that we have anybody can't see one of the documentation guides I'll explain more about how this works later we want everybody to be able to see one we need some over here as well now I'm also going to ask you to do something for me I want everyone to be able to see one the key word is see I'm also going to ask you to turn it in when you're done now if you do want to keep the keep the handout if you notice on the front we are asking for a four dollar donation now that donation the way we're doing is not going to our ministry or to me or to Watchmen fellowship our ministry it's that four dollars is going to help for the costs of the capstone conference going to help to offset some of the costs of this conference so here's what I want you to do for me if you want to keep the conference keep the documentation guide I want you to feel free to make notes in it write in it I want to feel you feel free to jot down illustrations then feel free to make a four dollar or more donation to Calvary Chapel to the capstone conference to go to offset the fees associated with this and we really again appreciate the opportunity to come and share with you well I was born and raised a latter-day saint myself like many of you I was fourth generation latter-day saint from the Jacksonville Florida fifth Ward I was told by my father that my our family was amongst the first converts to the LDS Church in North floor artoo heard many stories growing up about what life was like back then and my earliest memories was testifying that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God in fact I remember some of my earliest memories have fond memories of fast and testimony meeting when I would say I bear you my testimony that I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God etc now my earliest memories in fact I used to think shadow of a doubt was one word shut of it out I didn't know till later a shadow of a doubt that's what you're trying to say there but I did believe with all my heart that Joseph Smith was a true prophet but how did I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet is there a way that we can test those things biblically I want to share some of that with you in just a few moments our ministry of watchman fellowship is focused not just on Mormonism but other groups as well new religious movements and alternative faiths but we focus quite a bit on Mormonism and helping people to understand and reach latter-day saints with the true gospel of Christ and what we call speaking what the Bible calls speaking the truth in love in the book of Ephesians it says no longer children spiritually immature being tossed about by every wind of doctrine that comes along but instead of being spiritually immature and off-balance doctrinally instead where to be speaking the truth in love now the problem is for all of us as Christians is seeking balance and oftentimes we can be all truth and no love you ever seen that before you know that looks like and yeah we can become guilty of that but also we as Christians can become guilty of being all love with no truth and we really have to have both and I want to encourage you in that area we want to do that now along with the manual I do have something that I want you to take and keep if you look in the back of your manual you have we have a profile for you our ministry for the last 17 years every other month like clockwork well almost like clockwork we've been producing a four-page fact sheet that we call the profile now the one that you have is on which goes along the previous message its own one of the polygamist splinter groups the FLDS church and the Prophet Warren Jeffs the fundamentalist latter-day saints but you'll see that it's punched to add to a ring binder I want you to have not only this profile but I want to encourage you to consider getting a free subscription if you look here we are also offering every other month we'd love to send you a new subscription there's a little form to fill out to print your name and address if you do that and then find the watchman table back there and drop that off at the table later I would be more than happy to provide you a free subscription for all of 2010 every other month it's kind of like a seminar in your mailbox we we designed these after a presidential briefing the president the United States would not have time to read a bunch of books and and do a whole lot of in-depth research instead his staff would brief him so that's what we've done for the last 17 years and we have back on our table you can take a look our entire profile notebook which is every profile we've ever done all 17 years over 350 pages of profiles everything from acupuncture astrology the word Faith Movement profiles on controversial teachers like Benny Hinn and we have done profiles you have the one on the FLDS church profiles on jehovah's witnesses recently we did a profile on the Mayan calendar in 2012 did you hear what's going to happen we wanted to hurry and get that out to you while there's still some time for proper planning so you might want to take a look at that a table of contents some of the profiles that we've done if you're interested in that I have a special I've never done this before capstone special if you get the notebook we're going to give you the entire rest of the table for free get everything on our table on the watchman table for free and you can see on your subscription form everything that comes with that simply for the price of the notebook what I want to talk specifically though I mentioned to you the notebook and one encouraged take a look at it but I want to talk about the documentation guide for just a moment I I know you're going to have an opportunity to witness the latter-day saints many of us have family members that are LDS we work with LT especially here in Utah I can't tell you how many times at god young I'm from Texas but I still God gives me all these opportunities to share I was on my way to to New Orleans to to go to the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary about once a year I teach a co-teacher course there on apologetics and I was actually going to teach at that time one of the subjects was Mormonism so I'm on the plane and like it just happened so many times sitting right next to me right across the aisle from me happens to be a sister missionary she's going on her mission and so now I was trying to be good and I really was I was you I'm just reading okay and I'm not thinking Lord now I'm not unless you really show me well sure enough we weren't halfway through the flight and she starts asking the golden question hey are you going to New Orleans I said yeah everybody on the plane is and she said what I mean is do you live there and she started the conversation she got around to it and she finally says um I said she said I'm a missionary with the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints I said well that's good I'm still I'm trying to be good I really am trying to just say you know and then she asked the golden question do you what do you know about the LDS Church and I said well I used to be a member she said you used to be I said yes used to be I said and she said well what happened and I'm thinking do you want the red pill or the blue pill because if we go down this direction it will never be the same again you can't go back it was a very interesting conversation but one of the things that we've uncovered in these conversations I know you have too is the the constant a concern about anti-mormon literature I mean she we weren't halfway three sentences in I was going to show her something she's I don't want to see any anti-mormon literature now anti-mormon literature for those of you who don't know virtually any Christian literature could probably fall in that category but certainly anything that questions the Prophet Joseph Smith or the standard works or the history of the church anything it's anti woman I want you to understand exactly what's happening make no mistake about this this is a legal tactic what they're doing is a is a nothing more than a legal tactic you've seen it all the time on television when you are the defense attorney and your client is totally guilty I mean not only is your client your client has signed the confession then the very first thing that the defense attorney wants to do is make sure that evidence never sees the light of the courtroom how can I hide this evidence how can I this needs to be ruled inadmissible maybe he did not get his Miranda rights maybe he signed this under duress maybe he doesn't speak the English language but you find some reason why your client where there's ever because you know if the jury sees the evidence your son so well that's what happens with the so-called anti-mormon literature if you look at it case is case closed and so they want to say it's anti-mormon so what we've done to get around the problem everything in your handout today except for the cover everything else is actually photocopies directly from the writings of the church itself from LDS scriptures from the writings of the General Authorities a lot of it from the Prophet Joseph Smith himself and so some of what I'm going to be sharing with you is stuff that we've already seen you seen some of this on the film you've seen some of these examples and others but what the difference is this is looking at the actual documents now that means if you want to use this in a witnessing situation what's the first thing you want to do before you show it to a latter-day saint for dollar donation okay I knew somebody would say that now that the rest of you had it right take the cover off now if they see the cover it's going to be you know going to be very difficult for you so you want to take the cover off then everything in here is actually photocopies from the writings of the church leaves I want to start with the scriptures turn to page 1 if you will with me how do you test a prophet how do you know if a prophets true or not now as that latter-day saint I know many of you or you know the Mormon hermeneutic the Mormon method of interpreting reality the the hermeneutical law the methodology of why how a latter-day saint knows what's true is you pray about it Maronna 10-4 and if you sincerely pray with real intent you will know that the Book of Mormon is true the Holy Spirit will bear testimony to you that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and I prayed and I received us I still think I received a spiritual testimony that told me that Joseph Smith was a true prophet the problem is I don't believe it was the Holy Spirit that was telling me that and so the Bible tells us that we have to test a spirit because the Bible says beloved don't believe every spirit but test the spirits because many false prophets have gone out into the world well how do you test this very interestingly because of the problem of false prophets that's why we have to test the spirits well how do you test the spirit true/false multiple choice now God gives us an objective test look at Whitby if you will at Deuteronomy 18 this is right out of the LDS edition of the King James Bible beginning in verse 20 Deuteronomy 18 but the Prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak or that shall speak in the name of other gods even that prophet shall die verse 21 and if they'll say in my heart how shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken not this he that's the question right there how do you know if a prophet do we flip a coin heads it's true how do we there's so many voices that they flip through that profile notebook you know how many prophets are out we could fill this room today with various people claiming to be prophets of God claiming to have prophetic messages hey even on Christian TV you'll see these people having prophetic words about sending a certain amount of money to their post-office box and so the how do you know which how do you know if these prophets are true now from the LDS background the first time I was confronted with this as a latter-day Saint I'm just assuming the next verse is going to say pray about it and if you're sincere you're that's not what the Scriptures tell us prayer is not the way to test a spear is not that prayers bad but prayer is not an object of test the Muslims pray don't they and they have a custom money about a profit about a scripture but there but there didn't mislead so what we have instead is an objective test and here's the test verse 22 it says when a prophet speaking in the name of the Lord again prophets make mistakes but not when they speak in God's name or say thus saith the Lord or use the Lord's name when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord if the thing follow not nor come to pass that is the thing which the Lord had not spoken but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously thou shalt not be afraid of him as was shared earlier in the conference you don't fear that prophet you fear God you respect God but you don't fear that prophet anymore why he just failed the test now is everybody clear on the test when somebody comes in God's name saying I'm a prophet of God and they predict something's going to happen on a certain time and they say thus saith the Lord or this is a revelation of Jesus Christ and they say it's going to happen on a certain date the Bible says you must be right at least 51% of the time I meant to say 94% not to college where I teach that's an a a 94 no yeah that's right you have to be 100% accurate one false prophecy equals a false prophet now you may get some feedback as you're sharing this with a latter-day saint you say you know it seems to me that the Bible which was the first scripture that we had clearly tells us how we're to test any additional profits that come along I don't even question whether we can have latter-day prophets or not that's a whole other issue but if latter-day prophets do come how do we know if they're real or not certainly our latter-day Saint friends will agree with us that most of the people claiming to be prophets are false prophets so how do you know if one's true or not it gives us a test now they may say a hundred percent accuracy nobody's that good well the biblical prophets are accurate did you see the video did you have any view got to see that very very good evidence there yes we can go back and document that these prophecies were fulfilled and so the biblical prophets but is it well a hundred percent 100% accuracy that seems awfully strict well it's not strict at all and this is this is an illustration obvi you some you can use it I said you know it's not really that strict because really prophecy according to God's Word is a lot like murder here's a question how many people you have to kill to be a murderer just one now that seems awfully strict well no no James the truth of the matter is you don't have to kill everybody you meet just one and that's enough to place you in a category of individuals that we call murderer prophecies the same way one false prophecy equals a false prophet of course we've already seen earlier in the conference that the penalty in the Old Testament for being a false prophet what would they do to them they would rock them to sleep would they not so now not I'm not suggesting that we stone Thomas Monson or anybody that's claiming to be a prophet today what I am saying is very very serious however and this is the test that we're told to apply now I'm going to skip and by the way there's a CD that goes with this out on our table that covers everything I'm skipping when I teach this in college at the college we spend an hour and a half on this and go through everything I won't have time to do that this afternoon but I want you to skip to page four we're leaving out some good stuff but I want to actually get down to doing this test here I've got a couple of examples I'm going to share one with you out of the out of the manual on this particular test and we find in Doctrine and Covenants section 84 we find a revelation of Joseph Smith now again how can this be an time Worman but this is simply a photocopy of what LDS scriptures this is the standard works this is a photo okay photo copiers do not lie they rarely even stretch the truth so this is just a photocopy and we look here it says in the introduction the italicized introduction this is a revelation says revelation and look notice the date September 22nd 23rd 1823 well let's lead to read the revelation the dates important I'm sorry 1832 1832 let's read the the revelation the beginning in verse 1 violation of Jesus Christ again this is not Joseph Smith speaking it's Joseph Smith received the revelation but it's coming from Jesus unto his servant Joseph Smith Jr and six elders as they lifted is that you're not in their hearts and lifted their voices on hot yay the word of who the Lord concerning the church skipping down to verse two yeah the word of the Lord concerning his church verse three at the bottom left-hand corner which city is prophecy about a city which city shall be built beginning at the temple lot which is appointed by the finger of the Lord in the western boundaries of the state of Missouri Jackson County Missouri Western boundaries through the state of Missouri and and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith jr. and others with whom the Lord was well pleased always like when when a heavenly Father gives Joseph Smith some kudos during the revelation now this was actually of course Independence Missouri is a suburb of Kansas City very important place the cornerstone was laid of this temple eventually and a temple was to be built there on this spot there in Jackson County Missouri and in fact the whole area of western Missouri very important to latter-day saints I was taught as a Mormon that the that was the actual site western Missouri was the site of the Garden of Eden spoken of in the book of Genesis anyway so skipping down to verse 4 verily this is the word of the Lord that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the Saints beginning at this place even the place of the temple which temple shall be reared in this generation verse 5 for verily this generation shall not all pass away until in house shall be built to the Lord the cloud shall rest upon it etc what what happened is this should have been an easy self-fulfilling prophecy some of Joseph Smith's prophecies were self-fulfilling prophecy some of Joseph Smith's prophecies are open-ended there's no date on them but what happened was that a chain of events was already happening in western Missouri Joseph Smith was actually in Kirtland Ohio not in Missouri when he gave the revelation and in Independence Missouri in western Missouri things were beginning over the next couple of years to spin out of control for the LDS Church just a quick reminder of what happened a lot of animosity between the Latter day Saints and the non the NAM Mormons between the between the Mormons and the Gentiles and there was a it culminated in the famous sermon on July 4th 1838 when Sidney Rigdon the second counselor the counselor for Joseph Smith clearly said that there was to be a war of extermination that they would not have their rights be violated that they would defend themselves including the extermination of the non Mormons well the NAM Mormons didn't care kindly that was published actually that sermon was published and they didn't care calmly for that in fact they finally got back to the governor's office and Lilburn Boggs who was the governor of the state of Missouri on October 27th a couple of months later 1838 delivered what was called executive order 44 also known as the order of extermination making it making it legal to kill Mormons in the state of Missouri and they had to flee the country back that law interesting that executive order stayed on the books for the for the state of Missouri until fairly recently I think until 1976 and a member of my church back in Texas happened to be on the Missouri State Legislature at the time who helped co-sponsor and get back through a bill to get that actually taken off the rolls interest off of the the laws there in Missouri but what happened is that the the Mormons had to flee the state and they left the state including the property where the revelation was given now when Joseph Smith died in June of 1844 there were several rival Latter day Saints who claimed that God told them that there to be the next prophet there's easily two hundred different churches out there all claiming to be the true follower of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon of course Brigham Young led the largest group here to Salt Lake the Salt Lake Valley and became the LDS prophet but the one of the smaller groups that broke away was led by a man named Graham Hedrick and Grandville Hedrick same said that he was to be the prophet the successor of the Prophet Joseph Smith and he had a small band of followers and their real main claim to fame is he went back to Independence Missouri and reacquired that property and right now when you go there you there's a the church owns that the Church of Christ temple lot is called they're also sometimes called the Hedrick heights but they have not built the temple what happened interesting Lee in 1891 the our LDS Church sued the Hedrick Heights to try to say that they were the rightful owners where the revelation was given that the temple should be built they won the initial case but lost an appeal and so the temple lot group still owns the property and in 1930 they started to build the temple but during the Great Depression ran out of funds and had their own squabbling inviting and to this day you can walk the property as I have on several occasions looking for any sign of a temple there is no temple there on the whole site now when you share that with the latter-day Saint you say well look the generations over it's a what here's what you'll hear I've heard a Mormon missionary one Mormon missionary tell me that well actually there is a temple there as in a waiting I was just there I was just there three months ago there's a temp there's a temple there you're talking about across the street that reorganized latter-day saints built a temple across the street but not on the spot where the revelation was given he says no no there's a temple on the spot I said there is he said well heaven knock you read that the Bible says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit could it not be a spiritual temple but for foremost latter-day saints they realize there's a problem here but what you'll usually hear from latter-day saints is you say this too they share this with them is you say is you'll hear another explanation now let me say that when I share dot DNC 84 let me give you a little background on how to approach this whole situation when I first started when I first became a Christian and left the LDS Church I did everything the wrong way the things I'm suggesting to you that I think are better is because I've tried the others and the first thing all everybody that would listen to me it from my ward my my family members Ellie let me show you how wrong you are I can prove to you you are wrong that's the wrong way to do it what I do now is I turn it around I have a problem can you help me I've lost my testimony that Joseph Smith's a true prophet at this point I don't feign like I mission and join at this point I'm convinced in my heart that Joseph Smith failed the test of a prophet however I do try my best to remain open-minded in all things and if the church is true I don't think it is but if the church is true you know what I would eat I would need a latter-day Saint who would love me to be patient with me and help me work through some of my problems can I show you some of my problems now there should be a little warning sign there because I've discovered my problems are very contagious and I've had to speed up well I could see James how you might have a problem with this but usually here's what I hear on DNC 84 I hear well see the generations not run out it says this generation will not pass away and well how long's a generation well at least 150 years 200 years however long it takes them to build the temple that's how long it is it's a generation but unfortunately as latter-day saints we had living apostles and prophets General Authorities who could comment who could one of the big benefits of having having latter-day apostles is they could comment on things like this and if you look on the next page you're going to say you're going to see from the journal discourses this is a volume 14 page 275 and you see here on an address dealing with this whole issue by apostle Orson Pratt one of the Twelve Apostles and if you look here in the middle column he's talking about this what's happened this is in 1871 and already there were murmurs there were people suggesting that Joseph Smith had failed this prophecy because it had already been 39 years and isn't a generation 40 years some people say generations 30 years some people say 40 some people I've heard 70 but some people apparently thought it was 40 years and the time was about to run out now only it's been 39 year we don't even own the property it's the Hedrick Heights who own the property now is Joseph Smith about to fail as a profit the problem was so bad it was addressed several times by General Authorities from the from the Tabernacle here in Salt Lake City it was addressed publicly where they wanted to assure the Latter day Saints this is not a failed prophecy this is one explanation why DNC 84 is not a failed prophecy he says here in the middle column Orson Pratt apostle Pratt says I now notice another prediction verily this is the word of the Lord and he basically cites for us Doctrine and Covenants section 84 right-hand column he goes on to say here then we see a prediction and we believe it he's talking about DNC 84 we yes latter-day saints have this firm faith and rely upon this promise now watch this as much as they rely upon the promise of forgiveness of sins I'm sure of this as I am that my sins have been forgiven now this is scary because that means he could be wrong on both counts he goes on to say we just as much expected to see you City will be built called Zion in the place and on the land not across the street not in st. Louis on the on the place on the land which has been appointed by the Lord our God and temple will be reared on the spot now you might know this the Latter day Saints are building simple in western Missouri it's scheduled to open later this year it's in Kansas City but it's not on the land it's not about it's not even the city limit limits of Independence Missouri it's near there but it's not as he says on the place on the land which has been appointed by the Lord our God it's not on the spot he goes on to say when in the generation when the revelation was given but says the objector now he's quoting these murmurers these people these doubters but says the objector 39 years have passed away what of that the generation has not passed away now why here's why why has not the generation passed away here's why all the people that we're living through nine years ago have not passed away but before they do pass away this will be fulfilled see a generation is not he says the Apostle says it's not 39 years or 40 years or even 70 years it's the lifespan of those who are alive in 1832 when the revelation was given let me just ask you how many people are alive today there were alive in 1832 when the revelation was given now he I remind you how sure is he of this well only assurance is his own salvation is on this I have to say that I believe that this is a failed prophecy that Joseph Smith failed the test of a prophet I have another example for you I want I'm going to skip to this for the sake of time in fact turn over with me to page page 8 if you will skip through this section I want to talk about a second test for profit there's there's another example here I wanted to share with you about David Patten who is supposed to go on a mission again very clearly this prophecy failed patent died before the next spring arrived but there's a second test I wanted to spend some more time with you on that's I think in some ways more significant the first test that we looked at Deuteronomy 18 is a chronological test when a prophet says something is going to happen at a certain time or chronology it has to happen within the time that was specified if there's a time limit in the prophecy it's a chronological test but there's an earlier test for a prophet in the book of Deuteronomy which is not a chronological test is a theological test so on page 8 we're turning to Deuteronomy chapter 13 and starting with verse 1 this is a theological test for a prophet it says look at the italicized introduction the Lord tests his people to see if they will worship false gods prophets dreamers relatives or friends who advocate the worship of false gods shall be put to death idolatrous cities shall be destroyed verse 1 if there arise among you a prophet or dreamer of dreams and giveth the assign or a wonder so there's somebody there giving you a sign a wonder a prediction and the seiner wonder come to pass let's stop there this is interesting what if they give a revelation and it does come true it does come to pass that means they're true prophet not necessarily see the chronological test is only one test for a prophet now I believe again Joseph Smith failed that test simple point to the Civil War prophecy I think if you look in detail at the Civil War prophecy I think he failed that as well when you look at the details but even if you say Joseph Smith got some of his prophecies right well Jean Dixon got some of her prophecies right - as a psychic that you still fail the test of a prophet chronologically but even if Joseph Smith got every prophet prophecy right chronologically if the signer wonder does come to pass every time when he says something's going to happen but here's the problem we're of okay where of the where if he's spoken to you saying let us go after other gods which thou has not known and let us serve them so even if the prophecies come true but he's leading you after a different God he goes on to say thou shalt not hearken to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams and that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death because he had spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God so what we see here is that there's a second test which is actually earlier in the scriptures is a theological test if he leads you after other gods now most of the time latter-day saints are latter-day Saint neighbors say we worship the same God you do we all believe in the same God we've already seen in the conference that there are radical distinctions between the LDS Heavenly Father and the Yahweh of the of the Bible Christians believe in a different god of different Jesus president Hinckley on several occasions including during General Conference as has said on several occasions including General Conference that he doesn't believe in the same God same Jesus of traditional Christian faith that here you just a second here let's go ahead to our page to page 9 if you even argue however that the some LDS will that they do see a distinction between the God that they worship and the God that we worship they would say hey well we have the right concept of God and you have the wrong concept they look to the first vision Joseph Smith learned in the first vision that all the Christian Creed's were an abomination in God's sight well the Christian Creed's are what we believe about God that would be the Apostles Creed the Nicene Creed the the Caledonian Creed the Westminster Confession all these things our definition of God is an abomination in God's sight according the first vision but even if you argue that the current understanding of God that the LDS Church holds to is the correct understanding of God the right God then the problem is Joseph Smith fails the test of a prophet because he was clearly leading us after a different concept of God than what the LDS Church currently is and this is what I want to talk about on page 9 you're looking from the Book of Mormon where it says in Alma chapter 11 the beginning in verse 22 and a mule ecstatic to him yay if it be according to the spirit of rule which is in me for I shall say nothing which is contrary to the Spirit of the Lord verse 26 and zis room said unto them they'll say it that they'll say us there is a true and living God and amulet' said yeah there is a true and living God now these are instead is there more than one God that's a very important question because the answer this question is forever going to put you in one of several major theological camps even on secular University campuses when they're doing spirituality studies or comparative religion studies this is one of the first questions you asked about any religion it separates the religions and there's really only four answers you can give to this question is there more than one God you could answer the question there's no God that would be atheism you could answer the question that God is everything and everything is god that's pantheism but if you answer the question there's many gods or there's more than one true God that's a worldview called polytheism however we see here verse 29 that he answered no there's not more than one God there's only one in fact it's skipping down to verse 35 now Z's room said unto the people see the see that you remember these things for he is said there's but one God not just here but consistently throughout the Book of Mormon it always teaches one true God any other gods of false God testimony of three witnesses found in the front of the Book of Mormon honor be the Father Son and Holy Ghost which is one God not our one got which is one God the Book of Mormon consistently teaches there's only one God but the Book of Mormon you remember was written in 1830 now what happened is within a couple of years Joseph Smith begins to change the definition of God from the one found in the Book of Mormon let me give you some background on this in 1833 a document came out called the book of Commandments very rare book there's some there's less than thirty existing original copies of the book of Commandments there was a collection of Joseph Smith's early revelations his prophecies they were recorded written down compiled published there's only 30 less than 30 copies in fact ken Sanders rare books here in Salt Lake has just come out with a a reproduction a limited edition reproduction of the book of Commandments for only fifteen hundred dollars now you might also might want to check with Sandra Tanner and at Utah lighthouse in fact if I remember correctly this document I think was the first one that they produced that Geralyn tanner Gerald and Sandra Tanner reproduced at the old modern microfilm remember that before it was Utah lighthouse and I think they have it for less than fifteen hundred dollars you can get the entire book of Commandments well what happened is they came out in 1833 they were radically added edited redacted nature changes were made in the book of Commandments and added to them was a book called the lectures on faith the lectures on faith were given by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the fact I've been in the room where these were actually given in the upper room of the Kirtland temple in Ohio he had something called the school of the prophets and they taught doctrine and they had a question and answer and these were codified and written down and they became the Doctrine and Covenants in 1835 they as one book in fact the lectures on faith were the doctrine part of the Doctrine and Covenants and the the covenants were the book of Commandments that had been changed so yet the doctrines and the covenants well what happened is that was every edition of the Doctrine and Covenants for on decades for almost a hundred years as as the title implies the doctrines and the covenants but what happened is in 1921 the Doctrine and Covenants were edited changed and the lectures on faith were removed from the Doctrine and Covenants never to be seen again they were D canonized so the book that you've been told is the Doctrine and Covenants you got ripped off he only got the covenants the doctrine has been taken out of every Doctrine and Covenants for now thumb since 1921 I have with me from my office a Doctrine and Covenants from 1903 which actually has the doctrine section the doctrine and the covenants right across from our Washington fellowship table in the other room Curt van gordon has one copy left of an old doctrine and covenants that still has the doctrine section in it you might want to go take a look at that so the Doctrine and Covenants it was Deaconess out you have to put this in mind I was shocked when I would learn this when I was latter-day Saint that half of my Doctrine and Covenants isn't there it was Scripture until 1921 and it's now not Scripture now listen you're the same people that warned us that many plain and precious truths have been taken out of the Bible over the years can you show me any and document this now not only can I tell you that plain things have been taken out of your doctrine of covenants I can show them to you I have a photocopy for you on the next page page 10 in fact you could go on eBay and get a copy for yourself if you'd like any doctrine of covenants before 1921 this is the lectures on faith why did they remove it well I'm not a prophet but I have a pretty good idea why I believe it was removed the doctrine and covenants let's look at one this is lecture 5 from the doctrine part of the Doctrine and Covenants no longer there and it says the fifth lecture number one it says this verse 1 we shall in this lecture speak of the Godhead we mean the Father Son and Holy Spirit okay Father Son and Holy Spirit the Godhead skipping down to verse 2 next and airline portion the father now listen carefully the father being a personage of spirit glory and power possessing all perfection and fullness the son who was in the bosom of the Father a persons of Tabernacle made or fashioned likened to a man can you tell the difference in the doctrine section of the Doctrine and Covenants between the father and the son the father's a person is of what spirit a spirit personage on the other hand the son is a personage of Tabernacle made or fashioned like a what what's the difference we father in the son the father is a spirit person the son has a physical tangible body can anybody understand why this may have presented a problem to be sitting I wonder how it lasted so long in the Doctrine and Covenants until 1921 before it was removed now if the father is a person of spirit and the son is a person of Tabernacle made like a man who we leavin out what about the Holy Spirit well that's addressed in the middle column here in your notes and he speaking of Jesus he being the only begotten of the father received the fullness of the glory of the father possessing the same mind with the father which mind is the Holy Spirit so the Holy Spirit is the mind of both the father and the son so are we clear in the Doctrine and Covenants lectures on faith there were only two persons in the Godhead not three the father didn't have a body the father was a person as a spirit it was the son who has a body the Holy Spirit Holy Ghost does not talk about here but Holy Spirit is simply the mind of both the father and the son well some latter-day saints will say well this was not really Scripture it was like a lengthy introduction to the Doctrine and Covenants no this is this is scripture in fact if you look in the bottom verse 3 in the bottom of the column let's read it says from the foregoing account of the Godhead it's what we just read which is given in his what Oh revelations the Saints have a sure foundation laid for the exercise of faith and life and unto life and what not only is this scripture your salvation depends on this description of heavenly father and the Godhead it was removed again in 1921 well again I've had latter-day saints tell me well it holds may not be mentioned directly here's a separate personage and maybe the father has a spirit it doesn't mention he has a body - but it failed to mention that but there's there certainly we've always taught that there are three persons how many of you grew up in primary you have to memorize the articles of faith article 1 says what we believe in God the eternal father his son Jesus Christ and in the how many is that I want you take you to the right-hand column to the catechism section of the lectures on faith this is the at the end there's a question-and-answer a catechism section questions answered from the foregoing principles question how many person is are there in the Godhead answer I'm talking not the LDS answer today what are the what is their lectures on faith site answers what to the father and the son and then they say they can prove that from the Bible do you see why this might have been problematic for the elders for the Brethren in fact I again I wonder how it lasted so long in scripture before it got taken out this is definitely a problem if you're wrong about who God is if you if you miss it in ivana this is not deep theology we're not talking complex the aisle if we're talking about basic math how many persons are in the Godhead this is basic math at I had a man in my in my Richard Pierce of a latter-day Saint in my office as many years ago the guy's brilliant he's a member of Mensa if you don't know what that is you probably don't need to but he's he is perplexed I stopped because he's just he says he's doubting the photocopies he's going I don't I don't know I've not seen this before I mean how do I know this hasn't been doctored now this is a good thing when they say how do I know this is an authentic photocopy you know what that means they get it if this is an authentic photocopy I'm in big trouble this can't be right this has to be somebody's doctored with this and so on of course the evidence of the burden of evidence to them okay produce for me the real our lecture five go on ebay and get a copy go to go to the Tanners and go to sandra tanner get a copy of the lectures on faith I went in the other office in the library and brought back and let him hold a Doctrine and Covenants an older one and he just stood there and looked at it and he said okay I read it all under stand now this is correct I said what is correct he said yes you can say that there are two persons in the Godhead and be absolutely right you can say there's one person in the Godhead and the absolute you can say there are three persons in the Godhead to be absolutely right you just cannot say for I said Richard and I reached over my desk and held up three pencils off of my how many pencils am i holding if you tell me to it's going to be the incorrect answer again this is you don't have to make this difficult in fact if it was correct why take it out nobody's doubting that they took it out they removed it they D canonized it it was a it was a very plain scripture and it was taken out I have a problem with this now again I'll have latter-day saints say well this doesn't bother me at all I know the answer this well I'm not asking for it to bother you I'm the one with the problem this bothers me can you explain it admits that you you it doesn't bother can you explain this to me where where I could live with it can you explain this to me where it won't bother me anymore I'm again building the bridge means you have to be willing to listen and not just do all the talking have a a conversation and go along along the way well in the next page you see in the same Doctrine and Covenants where they had the doctrine with the lectures on faith you also had DN C section 130 verse 22 that says this the father has a body of flesh and bones now wait a minute is new from the lectures on faith and the tangible as man's and the son also but the Holy Ghost is not a body of flesh and bones but as a personage of spirit were it not so the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us so now there are three persons and it's the it's the Holy Ghost who doesn't have a body not the father who doesn't have a body now remember Deuteronomy chapter 13 says the way you know they're a false prophet is they lead you after other gods well let's turn the next page we're going to look now at Joseph Smith's most famous sermon the King Follett discourse the King Follett discourse is recorded in history the church volume 6 page 305 and 306 the date is August 15th but it actually occurred earlier than that what we're seeing is fact I believe it was given as a part of conference what we're seeing here is the the sermon given by Joseph Smith that the death of a elder King followed a latter-day Saint gentleman who died Joseph Smith preached his funeral and used the occasion to address the nature of God now remember the Book of Mormon says there's only one God by the lectures on faith you have to person is just who are God the Father not having a body well look and now this is the only fourteen years after the Book of Mormon and here's what we're getting I will go back to the beginning before the world was to show you what kind of being God is God himself God Himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens I say if you were to see him today you would seem like a man in form skipping down it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so for I'm going to tell you how God came to be God we notice the second person plural we he's talking about who himself and the other latter-day saints we have we had this crazy idea we have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity I will refute that idea and take away the veil that you may see it is the first principles of the god of the gospel to know first certainly the character of God I think he's right there it's the first principle to understand the nature of God doctrine he's right doctrine is like buttoning your buttons you ever done that you get in the morning you button your shirt you get off on the first button what happens to the rest of your buttons if you're half way consistent now some of you may be all over the map but for most of us how we button the first time the first button is the nature of God if you get that right it's going to help you line up every other doctrine if you're wrong on who God is it's going to skew everything else you believe so I agree with that particular statement he goes on to saying he God was once a man like us yeah that God Himself the father of us all dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself yet and I will show it from the Bible Joseph Smith goes on to say he closes out here then is eternal life here it is to know the only wise and true God and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves and to be Kings increased to God the same as all the gods have done before you going from one degree to another now there are certain Latter day Saints who want to distance themselves from the King Follett discourse and Joseph Smith scenes there are certain the Latter day Saints who are kind of ashamed of that it seems and just day before yesterday I'm teaching a course right now at Crystal College and we at a certain point we're dealing the section on Mormonism and after I've taught on Mormonism certain point I want to meet a letter they say so I brought in elder Joe Evans who's from the church education department he is a supervisor coordinator regional coordinator for all the seminaries and LDS Institute's in the whole area they're around Dallas I brought him in to address the class and the way I work it is and I do this also with Muslims when I teach on that and with Wiccans when I teach on on the alcohol so with latter-day saint I said listen for 30 minutes you can share anything you want my students you can correct caricatures if you want you can set the record straight you can try to convert my students if you like now I've already told my students any of you convert automatic F but you can for 30 minute but for the next 45 minutes my students can ask you any question they want nothing's off-limits you will be respectful though it will be respectful and there won't be any bashing or arguing so he was very delighted to do that he's a genuinely kind gentleman I've used other latter days things in the past it's the first time I had opportunity to work with him he came in and did a masterful job I thought but in the Q&A session he was asked about this what about the Book of Mormon teaches there's only one guy how many gods do you think that there are and you should have seen it was masterful how he he hedged about that and said you know what I believe for us there's only one God and how he went on to say never quite answering the question and I was a little bit concerned that my students weren't there was gonna be a follow-up question on that after we just dealt with that but he was so masterful on how he did it in fact I've got a video clip from a video that we've done that I want to show you some of you may have seen a portion of this before where you're going to meet a this whole issue is going to be addressed do we actually quote the King Follett discourse do we actually tell people what we believe about multiple deities let's watch this video in the law of eternal progression in the restored gospel in the Mormon Church there are really two sets of doctrine you had heard of a business having two sets of books Lee there's kinda like two sets of doctrine one of the doctrine sets a doctrine they call the milk doctrine this is their term milk doctrine the milk doctrine is for the general public new converts it's a design for what they call investigators people who are thinking about joining the church the other set of doctrine is called the meat doctrine the milk doctrines for the general public the meat doctrine is only for those who are mature enough to swallow it so in fact there's a video clip I was shown recently and you have a BYU professor like Robert Miller to training less and odd missionaries whenever a person asked me an antagonistic question I never answer that question but rather I answer the question they should have asked that's why I had grouped this under answer the right question for example and this will lead into the next principle in just a second for example if a person out of the blue that I don't know from Adam walks up to me and says so you're a latter-day say tell me you folks believe that man can become like God huh see how no respond it's a total stranger I don't know what he knows about the church it may not be the smartest thing in the world to say yeah yeah let me let me quote the Lorenzo Snow couplet for you and then I'm going to get the teachings of the Prophet I'm going to read to you your king fall of discourse that may not be our best approach it might be a much wiser approach to say well that's an interesting question it is asked frequently but you know let me let me begin this way in the spring of 1820 there was a young man named Joseph Smith Jr who was concerned about the subject of religion and wanted to know which church to join dot dot dot what did I just do I just answered the question he should have asked we never provide meat when milk will do and he keeps telling them over and over never give meat when milk will do I share with my students a couple of principles that we learn from watching the video first principle is you don't want to pray for wisdom before the final you want to study for the final second when you get a question from me on the final don't answer the question I should have asked you answer the question I actually asked but we are up against this now I think legitimately especially in Texas where I'm from I do meet a lot of Mormons that genuinely don't know the King Follett discourse they don't know the Lorenzo snow couplet they don't know they were Baptist three three years ago they don't know a lot of this and they genuinely think that we're all worshiping the same concept of God but many latter-day saints I think dr. Milot falls in this category know full well the difference and he knows that Lorenzo snow couplet he knows the king fall at discourse but he purposely says you don't bring that up instead you answer the question you parse the verb you what does is mean you answer it that way rather than being upfront about it well for the sake of time I'm not going to read to you the next page but very clearly we have the document here it was discussed earlier in the conference where Brigham Young in journal discourses volume 1 page 50 taught that Adam the first man is our Heavenly Father and our God and the only God with whom we have to do now it's true that this was rejected later by the church the LDS Church does not teach that Adam is God but Brigham Young used to teach that and in fact on page this page 13 of your handout page 14 you have president Kimball Spencer W Kimball addressing the problem of the atom God teaching and he says this we warned you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures in which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations alleged well you had the photocopy that stand up in a court of law alleged to have been taught by General Authorities of past generations such for instance as the atom God theory the doctrine that Adam was our God and the only God with whom we have to do the Adam God theory he says look at this we denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine now interestingly I agree with president Kimball here I've had latter-day saints get mad at me oh I'm not why you're showing that hey I'm on Kimball side I'm not saying he's wrong hey everybody I do believe that the Adam God doctrine is a false doctrine a damnable heresy I believe that it's a serious diet it's not a minor doctrine is an essential doctrine it's who is God it was God Adam or was God not Adam he rightly says that's a false doctrine but Brigham Young taught it taught it on numerous occasions it's available in the Journal of discourses you have a photocopy right here one of the places it was taught interesting whole background to the whole Adam god doctrine I won't have time to go into but you will have latter day saying say but that's not Scripture Brigham Young did teach it but it wasn't Scripture well it's true it wasn't Scripture but it's still significant don't let them confuse you on that they'll say if it's not Scripture we toss it away well no something can be significant even if it's not Scripture here's a man who communes with God daily who sees God who met in the temple here with Heavenly Father on a regular irregular K and thought that it was Adam and and God never thought to correct him on that and and go back and apologize or repent see when he records this in his sermons and is published in the general discourse this is not like Brigham Young got up in the morning and stubbed his toe on the bed and so Adam is God what did I say now this is a this is a doctrine this is being caught this is recorded and I agree with president Kimball it's certainly a false document what's the test for profit if a profit leads you after a different God is Adam a different God is it a false doctrine then Brigham Young is a fails the test of Deuteronomy well for the sake of time there's some other interesting quotes in here I just want to go to this last page with you before you turn to page to page 18 I want you to turn back with me if you will and a turn back to that King Follett discourse with me you'll turn back here that's page 12 I believe isn't it it turn back to page 12 with me I want to draw your attention to one of the statements that we looked at earlier from Joseph Smith's most famous sermon just get through some of this look in the middle of that section here okay get the slides to catch up see where it says here we have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity here we go we haven't imagined suppose that God was gone unnoticed the exact words that we imagined that God was God from all eternity and he says what I will refute that idea the idea what the God was God from all eternity if you look at the last page of your handout he's actually quoting here the Book of Mormon in the Book of Mormon Moroni 8:18 for I know that God is not a partial God neither a changeable D but he is unchangeable what from all eternity to all eternity Joseph Smith said we imagined and suppose that God was God what from all eternity where they probably read it the Book of Mormon that's why he thought that then he's I will refute that idea he's refuting his own Book of Mormon so which is correct see you only have three logical choices if the glory of God is intelligence there's only three possible logical choices either the Book of Mormon is correct enough I agree that God was God from all eternity but either the Book of Mormon is correct and God was God from all eternity did Joseph Smith would have to be wrong when he refuted that idea or you could say Joseph Smith was correct to refute the idea but then you'd have to dismiss the Book of Mormon or my favorite they're both wrong but but you can't simultaneously hold both doctrines at the same time when they're teaching something opposite about something that's essential is the very nature of God Deuteronomy 13 says this is how you know is it rude to do a test like this no we're biblically commanded to do so and we do so because we love the latter-day Saint people and I want to stress that it has to be done in love when I was a latter-day saying I had some Christian friends who were less than loving on a few occasions but I was fortunate that I had some Christian friends who did love me we're concerned about me is it worth it should we try to share this with our latter-day Saint neighbors let me close with this I was I wrote a tract a number of years ago in fact some of you have come up to me and you've passed out this track up and down the valley it's called I bury you my testimony I wrote it for the American tract Society I did not know that they would sell over 3/4 of a million of these or I might not have put my phone number on the back I get calls from all over I got a call me just I got a call from one gentleman very upset is this James Walker this is he James K Walker yes am I looking at your picture right now I don't know what do you look at it says it's a pamphlet called I bear you my testimony I said that that's me he said I don't believe you had the audacity to do what you've done he said if I was a failure like you are I'd be ashamed of myself but not only have you publicly told people you're a failure you're one in the whole world you put your picture on it and your phone number what an embarrassment and he kind of caught me at a funny time I said hey hey sir sure stop if you saw some of the evidence that I have seen you might have some of the same questions I do you might have the same testimony that I do he said okay I take the challenge I want to see the evidence I said I want to mail you some photocopies not an tire this is right out of LDS scriptures from the right in through Prophet Joseph Smith I want to mail you he said no don't send it the mail he said I want you to show me face to face like a man I said dog where are you calling from he said I'm in Beaumont Texas where are you I said I'm in Arlington Texas that's like about six hours I said well I listen I don't know the next time that you're in the dallas-fort Worth area if you'll call me I will take you out to lunch I'll buy and we can talk about this he said no I want you to come to Beaumont so I don't know when the next time I'm going to be a moment he said you'll have plane tickets Dilber to you in the morning well the FedEx truck pulled up in the morning and there was a package for me now I was a tackle I was at a quandary because I'm talking to my staff I don't know what I should do and I'm looking at the ticket something I noticed it was round-trip tickets it made me feel a little better what should i what would you have done I didn't know you know and so on I just said I'm gonna go I'm gonna go y'all you guys pray but if I'm not back tomorrow you come get me don't leave me down there so I went down there and when I got down there he met me coming off the plane and like most latter-day saints one of the nicest guys you can ever meet that very friendly he takes me and going over his house and I the time we get the house I realized what was really happening it was a it was a plan a plan to bring me back into the church so when I got to the house his home teachers happened to be there waiting and I'm sitting down and there's a write a portrait of the Prophet right there and then the final thing that almost got me I could hear the Mormon Tabernacle Choir playing I was homesick James you've had a bad experience I'm sure whatever it was we're here to make that right we want to we want to help you and I said why do have some problems maybe you can help can I show him I used to sell I didn't use this why I used a similar one on the Book of Mormon but I took I had already taken the cover off no don't forget to do that as I've lost my testimony and and so we said that we can help you so we're sitting down make a long story short about two hours later we went through document after document dan Moreschi who invited me his home teacher Joe will cook Joel's wife Lily cook all three of them came to the conclusion that Joseph Smith could not have been a true prophet he failed now Joel and Lily within about just a week or two both of them receive Christ as their Savior now with Dan let me just tell you that was a whole different situation dan it was a very legalistic very much could not understand grace in fact he called me back back at the offices of James I've been thinking about what you said I've been looking at this he said I cannot deal with the grace I cannot understand you've got to earn it through your through the principles and ordinances I said know it so it's a free gift he said James you're making it cheap I said no it's free but it's not cheap and I'm trying to explain to James here I need you back here I want to fly you and your wife back to Beaumont he said I'm going to take you out on my yacht in Galveston Bay and I want to take the whole day and explain grace to me I said this is a difficult ministry but Dan I'm willing to do it for the Lord so we went down there and he was very gracious but let me say he still can I went through every scripture every illustration and his background even before he was LDS was very legalistic and he says but the scripture says about grace are you saved after all you can do so stuffs up which scripture had to remind him that's the Book of Mormon that says that not the Bible as you see how confusing this is and so we were going through that finally he writes me a letter this is I'm speaking in a couple of months later he writes me a letter James you've ruined my life don't call me again or he said I was happy when I was LDS he said I go I go back to the church I tried to go back like nothing was wrong and every we open our scriptures I see all those photocopies I cannot get them out of my mind you've ruined my life don't ever call me again all I could do was pray for Dan about eight or nine ten months later I got a call Dan and moved to North Carolina he's a James you're not going to believe this I've moved I got a house here in North Carolina I had these carpet cleaners come in to clean my carpet they happened to be also students at this southeastern Baptist Theological something they want to talk more about cleaning my soul than cleaning my carpets and he said they showed me and James it is great it's right in the scriptures and Ephesians by grace are you saved through faith and that not of it says not of yourself I said Dan I showed you that verse I remember showing you that verse but the key is this it's not the verse it's not the argument it's not the illustration is certainly not these photocopy you understand these photocopies can't save anybody it's only the Holy Spirit that can open the eyes and touch the heart I wish Dan could be here with us is it worth it should we try to reach these people yes they deserve better they deserve better than what they have I was talking to a latter-day Saint about and asked a question here recently if you had cancer would you want your doctor to tell you I know we probably have some latter-day saints here this afternoon if you had cancer would you want your doctor as a harder question do you think some people rather would not know if they have symptoms they'd rather not go to the doctor what if it was curable cancer now do you want to know you said well sure I'd want to know but wait a minute it's going to ruin your whole day to find that out well what I'm saying is I believe that they're spiritually can be such a thing like a cancer false teaching can lead people astray and lead them to a false gospel well I want to be your doctor I don't want you to take my word for it I want to teach you how to read the x-rays for yourself I think if you have an open mind if you really look at the evidence you'll see that Joseph Smith fails the two main biblical test for a prophet Deuteronomy chapter 13 and Deuteronomy chapter 8 thing

Channel: Aaron Shafovaloff

Views: 86,921

Rating: 4.1710525 out of 5

Keywords: prophecies, joseph, smith, james, walker, watchman, fellowship, mormon, lds, mormonism, capstone, conference

Id: RuzmdtP5VRI

Length: 70min 52sec (4252 seconds)

Published: Sat May 01 2010