The PROBLEM with the combat in DUNE

[Music] where what you call [Music] professionals greetings I'm shad and in this video I want to talk about a bit of a problem that we see in the Dune films now it's hard to really nail down specifically cuz it's going to be of one extreme either there is a massive thing that they're not exploiting that would benefit them greatly talk about the soldiers uh or they are taking benefit of it which means it's not functioning the way it should specifically the types of weapons that they're using would not be up to Snuff this is a replica of the sandworm dagger that we see in Dune provided to us by United Cutlery so we will be looking at the design of the Dune dagger here see if it is actually uh adequate to the tasks that they would want to use it for in the you know War of the world but we also have some more serious ones cuz this is actually not real it's a type of resin but it's a accurate film replica but then we have some more serious weapons this is the honu legionary dagger and uh it's serious business so when we go to test some stuff well we we have something really really good to put it up against as well as kind of like a um rough approximate to the type of Swords the soldiers are wearing so what problem am I talking about specifically I've already done a video analyzing the type of combat you would naturally fall into if you had Shields like they are depicted in the Dune series and I actually ended up kind of agreeing like shorter weapons makes a lot of sense for well if you want to know why you can check out that original video the thing about the shields is this as they say in the series and films a slow blade penetrates the shield this raises an issue if you can only penetrate the shield with a slow blade you can you kill them not necessarily this is the thing that they should be exploiting what about if they're actually wearing physical armor underneath the energy Shield one of the ways that you're able to punch through armor well let's just say uh attacking with a slow moving blade doesn't really do the job you know while we're discussing this problem with the combat in Dune there's another question that I think is worth discussing and that is is the dagger really the best weapon to use against shields in Dune combat I have kind of discussed this in a previous video but I haven't heard what Nate or tyrant's thoughts are so we're going to be filming a dedicated video specifically for our supporters if you want to hear the fun discussion Nate's and tyrant's thoughts the back and forth of what they think the best weapon is in this type of combat and my own responses become a member here on YouTube or through patreon subscribe star or player we make dedicated videos for our supporters and genuinely everyone who is supporting us thank you so much ad revenue is apocalyptically bad across the platform and it's just been getting worse and genuinely it is only thanks to our supporters that we're able to keep going and so thank you to everyone who is and if you want to help ensure us to be able to make this cont content please do support us $1 to $5 a month and then you get this awesome fun additional exclusive content only for our supporters so thank you to everyone who is and uh check out that video if you're interested all right we actually just had that discussion on the best weapon to fight in dun's Shield energy Shield combat and we came up with a crazy answer one that's horrifying that would genuinely work no like better than daggers a oh wow if you want to find out check out check out the video it is it would be effective Shad from the future here I've just come back from watching Dune part two uh let me just first say brilliant really really good film highly recommend it yeah a lot of fun great sci-fi Space Opera epic really good film but what we also see in the film is armor okay so so this kind of changes up the discussion a little bit because I felt it was distinctly lacking in the last film but this one no we see the emperor soldiers they are wearing some chunky armor and granted there was armor in Parts in part one but here it's vastly more representative even the fman are wearing armor okay and so that then raises the important question cuz they yes you should be wearing armor under the shields because it should be able to stop conventionally effective weapons even the Dune sandworm tooth dagger so well we put that to the test because remember you can punch through certain types of Armor All right but could you do it if you had to to move the blade slowly according to the lore and that's exactly what we're testing here so so back back to the video are the soldiers in the Dune series wearing physical armor underneath the clothing it's hard to say doesn't really look like it it looks like just military uniform somewhat thick perhaps cloth maybe jumpsuit type of material but I hear people in the comments saying it's a sci-fi fantasy setting it could make soft material out of some really Advanced something and make it equivalent or better than chain mail that's possible but then we come into the other problem if that is the case are there weapons strong enough to get through that type of armor it's going to be one or the other either they're not wearing armor which is kind of dumb okay and then yeah a slow blade might be a to just slice and slowly stab someone or they are wearing armor and their weapons aren't really up to snuff we can check this by the properties of the sandworm tooth dagger that is used by the main character because there's a bit more lore information it is said it is sharper than anything around specifically the sharpness is unparalleled so it's very sharp all right we we we' got that uh usually poisoned I'm assuming then also very very strong but nothing is indicating that it has some type of energy vibro blade something property to make it be able to cut any better than a really really really really sharp knife if that's the case it's going to run into problems we've talked a little bit about this on shadiversity in the past about a super sharp knife would that get through strong armor we've looked at like Wolverine's claws no no no not not not not really uh if it's armor doesn't matter how sharp the blade is uh it still can't wedge apart that steel it'll kind of just get wedged in it there are some other interesting properties about the design of the sand worm dagger if if you needed to push you know uh and stab right and get through something resistance this is where having a hilt on the knife would be really important uh the design in the film doesn't actually have a hilt which means if you're pushing really really hard or even like slow hard it's hard to kind of determine because in the first film when Duncan is fighting some people I'm sorry he is he is hitting people with a fast moving blade and it's going through the shield so I think that's just more of a filming error cuz what would actually happen right when you're fighting and your and your trying to you know take on someone who has a shield you would hit you would stab The Shield would stop it right but then it seems like when they're being paying more attention about the slow moving blade part you know moves through the shield after it gets stopped then you can slowly push it through that's what would have to happen through in most combat now if you're really pushing hard there is a chance you could slide your hand down hilts are useful but other than that for a type of combat dagger this is actually a pretty solid design it's very similar in terms of its girth and just stabbing focused nature to a rondle Decker just without the rondol the rondol are the discards and so there are some really cool things to like about this dagger and by the way if you're interested in having like a uh sandworm Dune dagger replica we do have an affiliate Link in the description below uh made by United Cutlery and it look it's actually really really cool it's just this cool looking don't hit it against anything but it is it's got a solid construction on it and for demonstrative purposes it works well the primary thing that we want to test to see if this really is a problem is can you stab through armor slowly or even thick material that's how they would need to do it in Dune and that is take into count even if they are wearing armor if they're not wearing armor that's just really dumb I mean like slow it shouldn't take too much knowledge of combat that okay only slow moving blades can pass through the shields the easy answer that is just wear some type of armor underneath the shield and you're almost invulnerable then but they are stabbing through people after they get through the shield so I'm going over on the side they're not wearing armor but I can pretend it's sci-fi let's find out if slow moving blade can get through armor and for that let's bring in the guys Nate Tyrant so got a question for you guys yes if uh you were in the Dune Universe okay and uh like I already kind of discussed I do think short sords daggers best options for fighting dun Shields what type of dagger do you think would be best or short sword in this scenario uh do you think the it needs a guard and the reason why is because generating that Force at such a low pound you need something to push up against that would help that would help and I think having a little bit more handle for when you actually need those points of Leverage to maybe I reckon that's a good point I think some short swords but with a double-handed grip if you really want but that's the thing generating Force no not in the strike not talking about in the strike I'm talking once you're at that point being able to to like grab and push with two hands to make sure you got that extra point of Leverage to get through the shield if you get into a point where you need leverage yeah having extra handle handle would would be really useful uh what would you compare this one to I said rondle but maybe a bollock dagger it's probably a little long for a bollock dagger not by much yeah a Durk or a a scramx a sck something something around about that but it's it's close enough to a lot of uh medieval analogies they say it has unparalleled sharpness now this is a yeah sure yeah Katana well funnily enough Duncan Idaho's sword has a katana wrap on it for some weird reason and it looks terrible yeah I'm not a fan of that sord design it's ridiculous oddly enough I like that sord design more but that's that's like the most more ninja sword we have at the moment it is I at the moment is that a challenge we going to go up up in levels or down just off top it do you know why they keep making like these Katana based weapons in movies they just always want to put a Katana Katana good how can we make it look sharp I think this is more similarity to European daggers than you know so I would say so I would say so something that I do like about that is that it is a solid the whole way through the whole thing is the tooth which means it has no Tang it really has no like break points it is that's true a solid solid piece is I have is with the cross-section on this for these type of blades at this length cutting things with that like I know it's not primarily for that we can say that sure but when you say it's unparalleled unparalleled sharpness implies cutting exact it does yeah and it is really thick this is a thick boy knife it could it could be talking about the sharpness of I mean see I don't I don't actually know when they the tip when they say unparalleled sharpness it's being very generic but a lot of the attacks are yeah and look I mean having a thick blade on stab Focus daggers yeah look at the rondle sometimes they didn't even have an edge just this is supposed to have they had three sides but the issue about its thickness right that's going to make it more difficult to like cut through resistant material especially when you're getting to something that's equivalent to hard plastic or even uh metal that like the thicker it is the easier it's going to get wedged into that material regardless how sharp it is okay so what do you want to do with Bor and the g all right so we're going to test with these two sorty knifey dagger things now both actually come from United Cutlery they're affiliate link you can find these below uh that one's really affordable it's a you know it's a functional mold injuries type of s but I like it I got it cuz I like it this is a beast we've we've already tested this against gambison that was the only thing but it blasted with it everything in general in general this is a cool night yeah it's a it's got a nice glass breaker on the back it's got a good guard it's solid it was very sharp for thrusting specifically this thing is terrifying like yeah shockingly uh effective I was dubious about the thing I've come around to it it doesn't bother we've used it enough that it actually kind of just rests in the palm and I thought it would this this is fine I I've come around I've come around and this is one of my favorite knives now all right so what are we going to do like a 1in Thrust no I don't think you can do I think we need a like from there pushing but usually it's it's like going through the shield very slow from here and then they kind of you know just we'll try Mass you have to add the noise we'll try both we can't test with this this is just a wall hanger you know prop it is really cool though so if you do want the replica that's available as well but if you want something serious all right which one do you want to start with uh okay I think start with the mle ninja ninj cuz this is going to have look at look at how cute the point the tip is here I think this has a good chance to get through but the thing is cute either of those tips oh are cute this is 30 seconds this is not armor grade gamerson this is just thick clothing yes but it will determine if it can get through thick clothing then we're going to up the game and bring in some riveted maale so is this Nate so is this right here you know yeah that's actually true I would those are too thin armag grade is like 30 layers no it depends on what it's for this is actually armag okay okay well all right all right you got to go first I will go first and since I can't use speed and power I will just use power today starting touching one-handed that's all technique baby that was yeah yeah yeah try and do it slower that I was touching I can't just push you you were trying to do the one in punch thing and I did just thr just slowly oh I'm untrained I don't know how to use this oh no yeah it doesn't go through so you need to put some of course you need to put some but you can do that from you can so the the the I guess Theory would be you feel it get through the shield and he like pretty much but there is also another option an ice pick down which actually happens a lot of knife fighting a lot of people try to do the Ice Pick and ice pick knife fighting is a thing they don't really hold that way he's not going to lean back you have gravity holding him in place okay all right I'll give it a go I think it went through just the tip just the tip just the tip but that's about it it's funny like like this isn't I oh look the it's coming a bit it's a bit loose okay so the wrap isn't great on this yeah yeah I reckon you but the steel I would rewrap this with something yes I would yeah um this is somewhat an more analogous to the soldier swords like what we see Duncan using where in terms of it's got a sharp kind of angle it has the same blade shape shape but it's a lot bigger a lot it's not similar blade shape because the blades they use are like reverse machetes the waiters back here it's it's a weird I don't I like this design more than the um Soldier swords uh but okay so this is not an optimized tip no and I think if the focus of the combat is slow blades thrusting you wouldn't have this like the soldiers would not have a design like this you would go for a tip like this and that is more like the sandworm tooth in terms of relatively speaking the shape so you want actually the the sand worm tooth is a leaf blade kind of it's curled forward ever so slightly that's right all right let's see uh how easy this get through yeah uh yeah SL blade pointy pointiness yeah definitely can do it and like if you were bracing in you there and you're just trying to push oh boy hangang hang hang hangang hangang do your 1 in punch you don't need to and I can do it watch this okay it was similar similar I me I just want to very quickly we go okay that was that's not bad sh that's not bad I wasn't even trying yeah I go I could go deeper oh you can go deeper yeah way deeper I half think it's just cuz this garon is not made for this that much deeper you're trying too hard I didn't even try that much oh I could see it you were straining look how serious he was he had to brace himself and everything okay so uh did you just want to see how easy it is Nate P fails well he's leaning also he's going that way he's leaning against move move move move move he was already leaning in that direction compared to that's you were leaning into it quite all this is just a gambers this is just fabric we have something else that is and this is really going to raise the issue because if the soldiers had any brains at all they understood basic melee combat wouldn't wear basic basic cloth we wear Shields because if we wear our Shields the D worms are going to pop out and get us we can't use our LGE pistols we're going to get into melee what is good against meley in the wiki for something like the Sika right they just say they wear a uniform and a helmet it doesn't actually say what they're wearing but I would assume if cuz I have a brain in my head is that they have some sort of high-tech gambers like some sort of advanced material but then we go to the other problem there is no indication that I could read that their weapons were Advanced enough to get through armor I know they just seem like normal they seem like noral sharp swords yeah anyway all right we'll get to the next armor what are we doing next Shad we got we're going straight to the chain mail right and uh look this has gotten through chain mail before okay but with a yeah okay with a one in though let's see if we can do it with either pushing or the uh the 1 in the one in the one in one in all right we got the mail we got this uh more ninja sword I'm going to do my uh what should we call it when it's touching 1in punch whatever and I'm going to use maximum power I'm going to actually I'm going to actually try and get through so this will be so quick you you got to watch I can't tell if I hit something or like let's be very it sounded solid but I don't know no no didn't get through cuz to pop these links you need a lot of force and I feel like I I that's my point strong has a level well your strong has a level this is my point if you can only get through this energy shield with a slow moving blade there's nearly no chance You' get through you get bruised yeah you probably get bruised can I try with the other knife you said there's a limit I want to try first you can try first cuz he won't get through bear in mind this is actually decent quality riveted chain mail so it's not the you know weak buted stuff uh this is what you want but so first just going to try and do the whole pushing thing not a chance like even if you're bracing just like it would hurt gosh especially like something this pointy you would actually feel that but uh all right so if I was there just I mean I didn't bust any links it's my turn now my turn my turn do you think you're going to get through I don't know but you only got this far so I just need to beat that and I'm happy for the day it's not going to do it let's see that is not my that's not my fault he fell over no deeper than me I feel like that was a little bit deeper can I try a 1in one yeah 1 in 1 in like I don't think that's how it works you sure it needs to be slow to get through the shield but I don't feel like they're doing it just as it touches and they I feel like they're going through the shield going through the shield then they I know in like Duncan fight is just G stabbing people that was going through but that's not how it's supposed to work that's a mistake in choreography can we try 1 in let's all try 1 in that's about an inch right that's what are you talking about that's 3 in I'm using woman measur oh 3 in punch now all right that's about an inch first you didn't get through but we've got this on camera it's like let's do a 1 in also I'd like to know because I was holding the force I felt that and T yes yes you are strong but you also did the hole I'm just going to keep pushing and trying to get it through all right you can brace it and Nate because you're such a finally attuned you know precious sensitive person you calling me sensitive this is scientific scientific you're call me sensitive I'm just saying you can tell us what I need to do is feel how strong you are the wood yes exactly so I'm specifically through yes specifically testing his wood that's right and and you're going to tell us who's got the stronger thrust through wood yes and and specifically a 1in Thrust which I have lots of experience oh come on I thought you were on my side Nate if if if you're correct I am you're not this time sorry my ears perked up from all the way over there what's going on oh shed one oh okay great fantastic anyway so so something that I want to point out and I know that you said that you know smart soldiers would wear armor that is absolutely true if you were fighting a soldier who was wearing armor and you just so happened to be the one with the knife and the slow blade was the only thing that could get through you would do what medeval combatants did and find the holes in the armor now this one's something we actually prepared earlier legitimately we did this in a previous video but you would find the gaps in the armor which means the combat would get really interesting you would go for the neck they like technically this shouldn't have a gap there this is like a fulla this particular Gap correct shouldn't be there but there were gaps there were gaps usually in the joints wherever the joints are is usually where the gaps were it would change up combat but a lot in those clinches when you're up against the Shield that's when the tip would start moving into those points if we do owledge the Sci-Fi setting that should have Advanced Materials their like basic cloth should be stronger than chain mail and there really wouldn't be any gaps there wouldn't be gaps then that's my point and so they have helmets I think we've kind of I can't remember it's a catch we kind of confirmed it like either they should be wearing armor they should they have the techn to you would not get through you not get through this is the problem is like you have to move at a certain speed we know this to get through the shields in Doom that's how they work that's why they have to use the knives or swords or whatever it may be I'm with you on all of this the problem is once you get through that Shield you only have this much space to actually get through an armored combatant which is not a lot of force generation and you need Force to bust through armor and being sharp being unparalleled sharpness which is cool and all but it's not magic it's not like a virro blade or lightsaber the the answer okay and maybe people use this as their head Cannon but I personally think the audience should not have to fill in plot holes to make a story or events make sense right could be that their super magic energy vibro some type of thing that does something to cut through anything I I just don't accept it and the reason why is because we already have things like gamerson now which aren't even space AG material and they can stop blades something like this will probably get through because it's a monster but a lot of times stabs will get through cloth armor anyway and stabs will find the holes in armor regardless to what it is yes but this thing can take things like slashes and whatnot and when you have unparalleled sharpness it tells me that it at least is used for some slashing capabilities okay okay okay unparallel Shar what if we say all right it's referring to the tip the tip is like I don't know a an atom thick let's pretend that their cloth is an advanced type of super Kevlar right but don't could a tip that big no you know why we but we're we're actually adding head Cannon I know I know we being too charitable I'm trying to be this is the most terrible interpretation you know why this still wouldn't get through okay I'm trying to I'm trying well this I'm thinking and then I think it's something else we've made jokes about like the tip the whole thing but I feel like according to Canon it kind of would make sense if you can get just the tip just the tip just the tip past it would work because it's going to be poisonous okay okay if it's a molecule thick right it would get in between the super strong fibers because it's so thin okay and then the question is if it's so sharp on the edges even at that very very tip could it Shear apart those super strong fibers even if they're super magic Space Age science fiction material and then if it's us actually cutting into it there's a chance so here's here's the big wrench not even a wrench my bomb that I'm going to throw into the works is that not all of them who fight and get through Shields are using the uh the sand worm dagger they are using normal daggers more just Steel weapons so all of that goes out the window I know I know I like and there was nothing that we maybe masters of law they find obscure reference we went to the wiki which should be reliable but I guess maybe not always uh there was no information on the soldier swords these seemed like regular swords let us know what you guys think is there an answer to this issue or is it just it's there and it's a bit of an example of just when you're World building you got to pay attention to these things is I feel it's just easy if you have an opponent with a shield take them out into the desert the S will get them Shields trck s done oh the energy Shields don't even have to yeah don't even have to them I mean look there are fight scenes where they're not using the shields at all and then fair game yeah yeah yeah of course but we're not preferring to those let us know what you think in the comments below if you are interested in these pretty cool um United Cutlery you know weapons that one's awesome this is a great replica uh Link in the description below thank you for watching if you want to see a video where I break down the logic of fighting an energy Shield just in type of weapon you were on a us and style of combat there's that video over there that I made when the first uh dude movie came out and I'm looking forward to seeing the second one I mean the second movie is probably already out when this video comes out fil before uh I I'm interested to see on the the fighting I haven't seen that video do you Reon they might answer this issue no no okay I'm concerned

Channel: Shadiversity

Views: 155,437

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Id: LGhJWseSAW4

Length: 27min 18sec (1638 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 01 2024