The Interrogation of Stephanie Lazarus

on the evening of February 24th 1986 29 year-old nurse sherri rasmussen was found by her husband lying dead on the living room floor her face was severely beaten and disfigured to the point that she was unrecognizable and the injuries were consistent with being hit with a muzzle and butt plate of a gun she also had three gunshot wounds to the chest that were disclosed as the official cause of death with the medical examiner asserting that any one of the three bullets could have killed her perhaps the most disturbing discovery during the autopsy was that most of Sherry's injuries were inflicted upon her after she was killed which was concluded due to the lack of hemorrhaging and inflammation of the injuries this included most of the victims facial injuries and even a bite mark on her left forearm even after sherry had taken her last breath the assailant was still inflicting an inconceivable amount of damage to her body she was buried in a closed casket seven days later the homicide detectives assigned to the case immediately associated Sherry's murder with multiple break-ins that had occurred that same night on the same street another woman had even been assaulted and was able to give a description of two assailants and this description became the sole focus of the investigation into Sherry's murder the prime suspects were now two middle-aged Latino males of medium height and build they were never found and the case went unsolved for 23 years by 2009 crime in Los Angeles had declined enough from its earlier levels that detectives began looking into cold cases to increase their clearance rates which is when the Rasmussen Files resurfaced it stood out from the rest as new methods of genetic analysis discovered that the DNA found at the crime scene pointed to a single female suspect the two previous male suspects were then invalidated along with the original theory of a burglary gone wrong the investigation into sherri rasmussen murder was then reopened and the newly appointed criminal investigators started from scratch it was soon discovered that a statement given by Sherry's father of whom he thought to be the prime suspect was quickly brushed to one side as the person in question was a serving LAPD cop from the exact department who were investigating the case the person in question was a woman by the name of Stephanie Lazarus she was a 25 year old police officer at the time who had been with for two years she had dated Sheree's husband John Rutan in an on-and-off relationship throughout college and for a short time after it was even discovered that John had slept with Lazarus after he became engaged and the two even dated for a while after Sherry's murder she was now a 25 year veteran of the police force and had worked her way up to a senior detective of the commercial Crimes Division she was essentially in charge of all art related investigations in the city of Los Angeles the investigators went with a gut feeling and decided to make Lazarus the prime suspect with the collection of her DNA being the very first task attaining it through a warrant would have let Lazarus know she was under investigation so it had to be discreetly collected instead within 24 hours of becoming the prime suspect a coffee cup she discarded while off-duty was received by police a DNA sample was then taken and it came up as an exact match to the DNA found on sherri rasmussen x' bite mark there is a stigma around police interrogation tactics being secretive and how knowing this information can somehow help the guilty in deceiving their way to freedom yet these tactics have been public knowledge since their inception in the 1940s and the following interrogation is a legitimate testimony into how watching an interrogation is a world apart from being subjected to one you can know every technique in the book and each specific strategy and subtle scenario that goes along with it but ultimately you have no idea how you're going to react to a specific situation until you're actually in it with that being said knowing these tactics can still give an individual some form of advantage with regards to awareness the investigators knew that their initial confrontation with Lazarus could in no way resemble a traditional interrogation nor be officially classified as one and there were two reasons for this the first was that Stephanie would be wise to the fact that her best option would be to request legal counsel right away and end the procedure immediately the second was that Stephanie was not about to be read her Miranda rights before being asked questions related to the investigation a defense team could easily make anything she divulge 'as inadmissible in court yet this was classed as a simple discussion between two parties and the footage that was captured on a hidden camera was able to be submitted as evidence under surveillance footage rather than interrogation food the detectives created a ruse inviting Stephanie to come in and advise them on a case involving stolen art knowing they were dealing with one of their own they rehearsed and prepared for the interview more than anything they had done before their plan of attack was to keep the conversation as casual as possible for as long as possible and carefully waited for the key moments to initiate the confrontation you know my partner right how's it going I don't want to talk about this in the squad room because I don't know who people are listening to and if we go to my side everybody's always wondering whatever the first thing the detectives do is set up a compatible tone with a suspect she has just stepped foot inside an interrogation room and the detectives negate the negative implications of such an environment through a friendly disposition consultative meetings such as seeking advice over an art theft can take place anywhere and the last place detectives would choose to spend more time in would be an interrogation room the reason they give the suspect for meeting in such an unusual location is to not spread rumors or innuendo yet the real reason is that all firearms have to be checked in before entering the area and they needed the suspect to give up her gun without alerting suspicion but we're talking about being business that we've been assigned a case that we've been looking at okay it's a new case and we're doing the case there's some notes to see as far as your name being mentioned you know try and imagine for one moment that you savagely murdered a love rival in a jealous rage over two decades had passed since the act then all of a sudden you're brought to an interrogation room and sat directly opposite two senior investigators who bring up the name of the man you committed first-degree homicide for John Rutan Rutan the investigators already knew how to say John rottens name correctly the mispronunciation was a simple strategy to see how the suspect would react setting aside the element of the murder John Rutten was the second longest relationship in Stephanie's life and a psychiatrist later stated that this pause was four times as long as it should have been she was already being deceptive by acting as if she hadn't thought about that name for so long giving reason for her prolonged reflection when in reality the name John Rutan was engraved in her memory and even when slightly mispronounced it would have most likely taken milliseconds for her to realize exactly who the detectives were referring to oh yeah I went to school with him you did yeah how long did you know him gosh I went to school and um let's see when did you see you late 1978 I started and you know madam did school at the dorms mm-hmm she says she met him in the dorms yet left out the fact that they had dated for four years and went on numerous holidays together even though she wasn't asked directly a truthful subject would most often volunteer this information without having to be pressed for it because friends close friends yeah I mean was this all about well it's regarding it's a case we're working on it involves John and in there some of the statements were we reviewed you know there's nose and stuff day that he knew you and stuff oh yeah maybe good friends um lid to the dorms for I was in the dorms for two years you guys live in the same dorm yeah okay yeah guys draw okay you guys just friends or anything else sir yeah we were real good friends yeah was there any relationship or anything to develop between you guys yeah I need to be dated uh-huh you know I mean is it what is all about well it's relating to his wife it's unfortunate that Stephanie's face wasn't captured at this moment because she would have no doubt been immediately struck by the psychological reaction known as fight-or-flight her brain would have just triggered the influx of a specific cocktail of hormones in order to prepare her to either stay and deal with a threat or try and run away to safety Stephanie chooses to fight okay okay did you know her not really I mean I knew that he got married yours ago uh-huh did you ever meet her god I don't know you know she was or anything well I been a long time ago I I may have met her geez the words gosh God gee our exclamatory remarks used to express surprise or strong emotion you will see them used continuously throughout this interrogation which is the suspect trying to insinuate a vague memory due to a lack of contemplation on the subject matter she's trying to omit the impression that she would have had no reason to give any further thought to John or anything related to John since they stopped seeing each other over two decades ago you know yeah well I'm sick let me ask you you said you dated John how long did you guys date I mean what are you guys this is something as we know Stephanie is a cop and has been for 25 years she would be wise to the fact that acting oblivious to the unusual development of the situation will be a glaring red flag in the eyes of the investigators it's been shown time and again on this channel guilty suspects will often try and act naive to a blatant confrontation as a means to avoiding it altogether whereas truthful subjects will address the confrontation and either refute it or if it's subtle want immediate clarification and transparency as to what was being insinuated I mean you said hey I was gonna do something about art and hey there's I mean Stephanie here's the situation is basically we you know we knew that this when we saw this in the in this chrono that maybe you know there was some relationship there that's what the chrono seemed to indicate the detective now subtly avoids the question altogether but instead offers a deceptively reassuring response to the suspect he makes a very sharp switch from the investigative subject matter to the previous topic of workplace rumors he brings her focus back to the false perception of them being on her side Stephanie had just asked what was going on and now he essentially replies with we are your friends we're doing you a favor and we didn't want to come up to you at your desk and ask those kinds of questions or do anything you know how up there people can see what's going on if you went to an interview room or people are in there giving supplies so we wanted to afford you some privacy some confidentiality to talk about this because we thought it might be you know something you know you're married to someone else obviously and so forth and that you may not want to you know talk about these things in that setting or someone you know we don't want the rumor mill or gossip Bernie that kind of stuff I to me so we did this just as a means to try and speak to you it's a confidential place where you you know work where your business isn't out there for other people in division about whether it be shock or the total reluctance to accept the situation at hand Stephanie warily accepts the reassuring response without further inquiry into her initial challenge she instead falls back into her agenda of having a foggy memory with regard to the incriminating contents yeah it's been a million years ago I mean you know what year is it now 2009 I mean I graduated in 82 82 yeah um you know we dated I dated other guys I'm sure he dated other girls um let me get roughly how long would you would you say you guys did jeez I couldn't even say I mean notice how she now goes on to over explain things that don't require an explanation and weren't even inquired about it's a clear cut indication of hyper arousal and a derivative of TMT also known as terror management theory the suspect will go off on unrelated tangents as means for gaining momentary relief going into detail about trivial things affords her a brief escape from the terrifying reality eventuated before her this is a very common occurrence in interrogations where the suspect is facing serious charges and psychiatrists believe it to be a subconscious coping mechanism I started school there in 78 I started to see lights at 1978 I graduated in 82 um I don't even remember what year he graduated if it was a year or two before me I think he was a little bit older than I was I mean you know I can't remember he was born let's say I'm born in 60 1960 I don't if he was born in 58 or 59 I mean not you know I mean I knew his parents and his sister his brother went to Northridge you know sister spent the night at my house before obviously I spent the night at his house before we price spent the night at my house before you know I yeah I don't what correct me if I'm wrong from what you're telling me you guys dated what you were in college together right yeah and probably after college um um I can't jeez um anything when I met my husband I met my husband in tiny Scott let's see Street you dare because I met Scott when I was teaching dare up in Oregon but we had long stopped dating before that so you haven't talked to him for a long time oh I I think I haven't talked him in a long time I couldn't even tell you when the last time I talked to him um I met Scott I'm thinking in 92 maybe April of 92 it was Scott being your husband yeah I'm trying to think I was teaching dare let's see what year is this we'll be married I got married in 1996 I think I met Scott in 92 prior to that I couldn't tell you how long I talked you know talk to John Baum prior to that but since you since you met your husband Scott you haven't talked to him I mean he may have called me uh once or twice before we got married right um you know jeez I I lived it I moved to see me in 1994 because I lost my house in the earthquake Oh quite honestly I probably keep in contact with a few people from the dorms we all will all live on the 10th floor and there's about three or four people I keep in contact with there's probably like six or eight of us that we're all really close who are those people oh geez um Diana bast uh people I still keep my I haven't been in contact with her in a long time I mean you know what's uh what's I mean what's this all about I mean well let me ask you the suspect challenges the detectives for the second time and once again the question is avoided but this time in a more confrontational manner as the topic is maintained with no reassurance afforded the detectives are ramping up the pressure in a very subtle yet highly effective manner what ended the relationship between John you know I don't listen it was kind of a weird relationship I mean we we dated I can't say that he was my boyfriend I don't know that he would get it concerned me his girlfriend we just we dated we did things I played sports in college he played basketball his brother played basketball um we just you know it just didn't work out I don't know what to tell you it was like I went out with other guys other guys and went on lots of vacations um you know and once you guys split were you guys still friends or kind of you know I mean friendly not friendly no I don't think it was not friendly I mean we were friendly I know that we went to Hawaii at one point yeah I mean I you know and you were saying that in 2009 now had you ever met his wife I may have do you know do you member name or anything or for what she did for a living or where she worked or anything about her the suspect was just asked three consecutive questions relating to the victim she was supposedly in a reflective state during all three of the questions yet her facial expression completely changed for the third one this is because she was pretending to be in a state of reflection for the first two questions as she already knew the answers whereas for the third question she actually was in a state of reflection and was genuinely searching her memory for the correct response had you ever met his wife I may have do you know do you member named or anything or the third question is about to be posed and her focus is about to switch from pretending to be thinking to actually thinking for what she did for a living or where she worked or anything about her well I think she I'm gonna say that I think she was a nurse and I can't remember how he said he met her yeah I mean I I yeah I mean it's been so long ago well let me ask did you go to their wedding you know no I didn't go to their wedding um no I don't did not go to their wedding um can't even tell you what year we got married I mean you know it's been a million years ago you know again I mean what you know I don't understand why you're talking about some guy dated a million years ago do you know what happened to his wife yeah I know she got killed you wouldn't need to be an expert in body language to recognize the unmitigated terror emanating from the suspects face at this moment she had just verbalized the victims tragic demise for the first time in most likely over two decades what did you hear about that I saw a poster at work um I'm sure I spoke to him about it um I think I spoke to another friend of his about it um and how did how did you first learn about that geez someone could have called me I could heard it at work um I think at one point there may have been a flyer or something I know a good friend of his are you on the job back then well that happened yeah I think so yeah I'm sure I was on the job that's why I would have heard about it with the flyer um he had a good friend Mike Mike Beaudry Mike hmm you know the being that you're kind of used to see John you know was it everything okay between you guys I mean there was never anything uncomfortable or anything between you and her eight separate witnesses testified that Stephanie had confronted sherry at the hospital she worked at while the two of them were reportedly in an intimate relationship with John the confrontation was said to have been highly aggressive and Stephanie had to be escorted off the premises by security report stated that stephanie was by far the more combative and even made threats against Sherry's life you know I don't know I mean it's got it's been so many years I mean uncomfortable I mean yeah I can't even I can't even remember forget a conversation I mean we may have I may have I may have seen her it is a part you know yeah geez how many years ago is that I don't even know what year she you know got killed where was his apartment notice her passive disposition and she gives the following truthful response on Rosco okay yeah Roscoe and um east or west of des so either Easter Weston de Soto do you know where he moved up and did he move after he got married or do you know now notice how her disposition switches from passive to frantic as she once again pretends to have a vague memory oh I'm sure he did you know where I was living or somewhere in the valley did you ever visit him and his wife no no never one out you know get-together dinners no no like I said his sister used to come over his sister it come to my place I knew her I knew his brother because his brother played basketball in Northridge in fact I was just coming across some pictures that I just scanned scanned from I take a lot of photos um like ten thousand and I just did a service where I scanned everything after his wife died did did you talk to him again or anything yeah I mean I did talk to him I talked to him probably his parents um probably some other friends um you know I'm sure I talked to him yeah um like you you don't you're not sure where he moved to after he got married no idea I've never went over to visit him I don't think I mean I don't think so I mean um I don't know I don't I mean I don't think I did I know he's lived on Roscoe for a long long time um after John's wife died he said you may have been talking to him did your relationship start up again I would say no um again can you give me a year I mean this is like 2009 she died in 1986 yeah I think it's 86 1986 okay um like I said I'm faintly remembering that I went to Hawaii with my friend Greg Greg and I got certified for scuba diving um and I'm thinking that John Metis their meaning Greg and I um after he after he got married or whatever we were you dating anybody never take her letter Louis and that was the London year 1986 you said I think he got married yeah and around 85 86 something like that were you seeing anyone seriously or God I couldn't say um jeez I'm trying to think I mean you know I dated a fireman Brandi may have dated a gal that Mike was dating and that and then Mike Randi broke up with that gal I couldn't even tell you if the girl's name if I'm even thinking of the story right and then I started dating Brandi yeah I you know so again I mean not like I was a huge floozy or anything like snow of course you recall after John's wife died did you start a relationship again with with John or dating casually or anything like that like I said he met Greg and I in Hawaii um you know uh what island did we go to I think the Big Island and Kauai I mean when you heard about John's wife being killed I mean what was your what was your reaction I mean we did you thought you heard about what through a friend or at a bulletin or a friend or a bulletin I obviously I mean I called and called the family I am I called maybe some of his friends that that I knew and I mean obviously it shocked your fear if I heard it at work you know um which I may have I faintly remember a bulletin going around you know um do you know what the circumstances were regarding her death mm gee let me think back geez I don't know if it was you know if it was a burglary or something guys I mean it's been so many years I I mean I can faintly think that I may have saw a flier I may have had a picture on it you know I mean that's why I say if somebody had called me I may not have known what her last name was I may have I mean maybe if you told me I would remember it um universe named Shelly Sheri I know something maybe you know like I said it's been so many years and um from all the years as far as you can remember you don't do you remember ever talking to her just well htc I said earlier you know I mean I may have and I'm now I'm thinking I put me I may have gone too and say hey you know what you know it is he dating you he's but he's bothering me and so I'm thinking that we had a conversation about that one or two maybe you know I it could have been three I don't want to say I had three conversations with her get a look at her work or at their at their house or no I'm thinking that I mean you know he obviously must have told me where she worked I'm thinking it was a hospital somewhere in LA and I just I mean I could have been again what year was that where was i working 92 or 93 there was a big earthquake no when was a big earthquake April of 92 because I was t I stopped teaching dare I think I stopped taking gear sometime in 92 when you said like hey you know he's calling me he needs to knock it off or what-have-you I mean was that was that civil was there no there was not I don't think there was anything it was if the conversation lasted a few minutes I can't even remember what is it like you know we went out to lunch or anything right but there was no like arguments or fights or using i heated or anything like not that I recall no I mean I would think that would stand out I would think now again dad's not standing out in my mind um you know so you didn't have any problems with her then no issues with her no I mean let me let me ask you seems like you didn't have any issue now did she have an issue with you as far as only because now you you're telling her hey you know how much luck calling.i she's like me you know do you figure she'd be thrilled by you you know I I don't know I mean from what you remember as far as when you talked to her maybe you didn't take it as serious but maybe you know that she issues well I mean like was she throwing things at me or something or just you know as far as you're trying to explain like hey haven't stopped calling me you know stop playing games you know I tell you it yeah if the conversation I couldn't even tell you how long the conversation if you said did it last a half an hour did it last three minutes to the last 20 minutes I can't even remember it's been so long ago so you were gone it was in route to work you more likely would have gone to her work and had this discussion with her I mean that's sounding familiar I mean that's now that you guys are bringing this stuff up um I mean it sound that sounds familiar but again I mean you know what I mean what's this got to do with me dating him and you know her getting killed I mean I don't you know I don't have anything to do with it and you get something that's somebody said you know whatever I mean well like I said we just literally got this the other day and you're going through it yeah can you see some easier Nick's next door right and so you know I mean obviously it's like we recognize the name we know that you know you work next door to us and so we're trying to get some background we're trying to figure this out I mean this is from a long time ago I know I know and things have been kind of slow for us and so you know chief Beck has said hey you know I want you guys working I don't want you just sitting around reading the paper yeah so he's kind of pushing some older cases out even to the guys in work active cases because you know and so we see this and we're just like you know we want to talk to you about it but of course the only reason we did it here is because we're getting into some pretty personal stuff in your relationship my John's on the job very you know we don't take the risk we want to take the risk when one of those interview anyone the Jordan close someone's going to get supplies and see us on a monitor hears or whatever I appreciate that me I don't hit like I said that's where people go when there's orals you know when they're doing well so guys will go in there and try and watch it what are the answers to the questions you know know that yeah so so we just we just want to afford the most privacy and confidentiality we could I appreciate like I said I mean this goes way back and I mean it was very sad you know obviously um I haven't I you know I when we were in college some of us would go down to his house in San Diego I went down his house with him I'm a detective I think in 93 93 let me get back to as far as Ling he said John was calling you to to see you and during that time you felt that he was felt he was either seeing her was engaged or married do you do no good say hi you know I don't know I let's see my husband but during that time that you were seeing John you know was he I can kind of I don't have a squirrely or kind of sneaking around when he'd hook up with you or anything like that to make you think hey I probably was I mean well after he hooked up with with sherry do you know where they were living no you asked me that already and I said well obviously ever live in a van nuys division yeah um I may have known I mean I you know again I yo did he ever give me the address maybe you know I don't remember I mean I don't know cuz the only reason I'm asking you again is because we've been talking I know some stuff has come to you because you're like oh you know I don't think I've ever gone there something I don't I don't want to say no I've never gone there then you say oh I was at party cuz I I don't you know I don't think so yeah um like I said we've got these friends we have different we have parties because I know you went to talk to her at the hospital regarding decision with John to you know kind of like hey what's going to happen here with this thing but would this ever have followed up to her house when you went to talk to her to say hey you know what I don't even know that I knew where they lived I know it's I'm saying I don't if I knew where they lived and I'd been there if it was for something social I would I'm bad and I can't see how many times I I saw her face to face you know he lived on Rosco did I ever see her there I don't know I mean I may have seen their disappointment on Rosco I may have met her there um you know I mean but she didn't have any issues with her right no I mean you know obviously if he was dating me and dating her I probably said hey pic or something you know no bats in um I mean would you remember if she snapped on you and just like hey Mads my man you know you get leave them alone you know blah blah blah that kind of stuff you know and would you remember an incident like that I because that would be like what well you know and maybe that happened I mean ah gosh I you know it's been so long ago I you know I just I mean that's not ringing a bell um because of times I seen you around in our office I'm crazy but you're only gonna like rule I mean you can kind of bubbly oh I'm people think I'm really hyper but I can even I can get I can get upset you know and I'm then I forget five seconds later you know you know how guys razz you and you go ah you know um I mean I've done that in the office you know but it's like and then I'm you know and then I'm you know you like me water under the bridge yeah I mean it's like people think I'm crazy and then they think I'm crazy at home and I'm you know Mormon I'm I'm a hyper person at work I'm you know I enjoy my job I get excited I you know I enjoy the job I've always enjoyed the job and then the guys lived across from me Jim jaska land ROI sake boosts I could lose something like that one of the concerns I had looking at some of the notes as some of Sheree's friends said that you and her were having a problem because of the John situation well I remember when I don't know who her friends are because again I don't I don't recall if he did tell me where he met her I don't know even who these friends are a problem like I said if I spoke to her I mean I'll go on as far as a limb and I'd only want to say I spoke to her five times because that's probably not even true I can't even remember again did I meet him at her plate when he lived on Roscoe for I think quite a while but I couldn't tell you how long you lived in Roscoe and only reason I remember the place now is because it's like a huge dope built place now or they you know it may have been back then but you know maybe we know back then um I could have met her there I could have you know uh you know I don't even know that I met any of their friends I don't I I can't say that I don't know that that's a true statement what that's what I mean is it you guys have problems with each other and words are being exchanged and it's all relating to John you know what i I just I can't say cancer no I did that does seem ring a bell I mean I mean it seemed like yeah you would recall something if I was going off on him Ryan would think I mean I would think from what you're telling me is when you guys met at the hospital you guys talk but it wasn't from what you recall confrontational from either side I I mean I'm trying to you know turn my memory back you know and I'm trying can't even can't even picture the you know picture the the conversation I mean I can't even picture the conversation well let me ask you I mean at the hospital got to the point where people are going hey you know go to everybody go to your own corner type of thing I don't think so nothing like that I don't think so I mean I really don't I mean if you you know if you say people said that that's not ringing a bell to me at all I mean it's not I mean that that's not ringing a bell was there me at all was there ever a time when you and sherry we're talking and John had to make like a you guys relax you know or anything like that Thanks so about you never going to a house and having a dispute like that you know I'm just if I met her ever at his apartment maybe I mean maybe we could have met it I could have met her apartment I'm thinking that the hospital thing that sounds familiar that I met her there I just can't say that I've ever again was I there with other people yeah I don't I I don't know I don't think I ever met her there or him there um meaning one or the other I don't think so I guess basically I'm asking is you know where you're welcome to the house like hey oh come over yeah come on over I'm in a barbecue you know that dinner party Christmas party whatever I don't know I'm just trying to think you know like I said because there were so many of us that I have 10,000 pictures okay I'm a picture nut [Music] let me ask when you're seeing John would you I think he would pick you up in his car you're going her cook yeah your car things of that nature he doesn't go well yeah I mean you're avoiding where you drove well I know at one time he drove a either a 240 or 260 z any other cars that stand out of your mind I don't know how long you drove that 240 or 260 z4 um and the only reason I say that is because I think I may have a picture of it with him in it um what kind of car did you have back then let's see what year or are you like one of those young cops is like oh I got a paycheck and bought a new car no no I've only had like a few cars in my whole life so would you have when he came on the job kill my first car was a 68 Chevelle well like I said we were looking at the case and you know we'd read the notes as far as from Sheree's friend saying you you guys had problems or words they got heated the reason we're asking is they had mentioned that an incident at her work had occurred and they've also told us that an incident at her house occur you know what and this is at her house during the period of time that their marriage that's just not sounding familiar at all I mean I you know what I that's just not so again if someone says that I was at her house and I had an incident with her you know I that just doesn't sound you know it was John there did John say this happened because and other people were there I just say I don't recall I mean it just doesn't sound you know familiar this is an incident where you showed up you weren't supposed to show up things got heated at his house it said I you know I bet just doesn't sound familiar I mean I you know it's not sounding familiar not at all now you can even not familiar because it's just don't you remember or less you know what I would had then I'd have to say don't remember cuz I don't remember I knit that doesn't sound familiar I you know for something like that in your life is well I would think what a drama involving the other woman type of thing do you fight with her you mean like we fought yeah did you ever Duke it out with her no I don't think so I mean you'd remember that right that would be pretty yeah I would think so I'm in specific yeah like I said I mean obviously yeah I you know I mean it just doesn't sound familiar I mean I mean were they sing so I fall with her soul so now I mean I get get get getting the jump of the leap excuse me I haven't eaten they're saying okay I fought with her so I must have killed her this is known in psychology as reductio ad absurdum or appeal to extremes it's a form of argument that attempts to disprove a statement by showing that it leads to an absurd or impractical conclusion I mean come on I mean this you know I I don't even know who these people are I can't even say I met any of these people I mean that's it's insane would be something you would remember I mean it because it's I don't know any other intense incidents in your life that have occurred I mean you recall those right I mean well I can use the force at work or car crash something you're involved in you'd be like everything you would think I would remember I mean I would think if it was something that crazy I mean I can't say you say how many fights have you gotten into you know in your life you know I mean a few at work well I said work are kind of different cuz we've all had uses of force or whatever but I didn't have even a lot of those right but you know if you're if you're actually you know I mean I played like if if Dan and I got mad at each other and we threw blows in the squad room I mean 20 years later I would remember it I mean I would think I remember it for you that's what I'm saying that's not sounding familiar to me at all I'm looking at the notes and people are kind of mean they're pointed the finger at you well I mean that's not ringing a bell to me so you know I don't know you know it's I I don't want to tell you I mean that just sounds crazy to me yeah so you often you don't recall ever going into her house and having words and physically you know no I need her for attacking you no nothing like that no I mean that's no no no no not at all well some of the on this case you know this is currently 186 right detective process the scene things of that nature they did fingerprints and all that stuff you know the standard you didn't been doing this long as I have well about that I get 26 years on going on 26:19 but you know as they processed everything they did the best they could at that time and they looked at a lot of a lot of people different things in this case and you're right if you guys are claiming that I'm a suspect then you know I got a problem with you know with that okay so you know if you're if you're doing this as an interrogation you're saying hey I'm a suspect well now I got a problem with what you know now you're accusing me of this is that what you're is that what you're saying we're trying to figure out what happened Stefan well I was you know I'm just saying what I need to get a lawyer for accusing me a reason you know you don't have to I mean you know I'm here of your own free will I mean oh well I know but you're not doing under arrest you can walk out you can leave whenever you like well you know I'm trying to give you some background of you know how I knew him and now you're telling me that some somebody's saying that we had this big old fight and I don't even know what you're talking about um you know and I don't want to you know get in trouble for something that I didn't even do or they're saying I did something okay yeah we understand I mean how would you guys like it if the tables were turned on you I understand no no that's why we're telling you I mean you're free to go whenever you want if this makes you uncomfortable an you want to go you're starting to make me uncomfortable the thing is I mean detectives did what they could at that time on the crime scene okay and the burglary thing you're talking about that is an angle that they that I go but now we're looking at everything else on the case because nobody was ever arrested on the case I don't know that or not now we'd like to do is obviously you know about all the DNA stuff and things of the nature that you know gets done on cases nowadays you know if we asked you for a DNA swab would you be willing to give us one maybe cuz now now now just because now I'm thinking I probably need to talk to a lawyer I mean well I cuz I know how this stuff works okay don't get me wrong you're right I have been doing this long time yeah and I wish I have been recording this because because now it sounds like you know there's you know you're selling these people say I'm fighting with her and now it sounds like you're trying to you know I've been doing this a long time we're not okay and and now it almost sounds like you're trying to pin something on me now I got that sense what he gets to in these on these cases and you know it as well as I do our job is to identify and eliminate I can't believe this so if we ask you to point it was a DNA sample a buccal swab so we can identify or eliminate you should be willing to do that maybe because I know this IIIi that's what we're at - I mean because right now from looking at the evidence it you know it's possible we may have some DNA at the location that's great and we're going to do what we can to try to put this thing together and your names in the book these people are pointing at you for whatever reason I don't know why that's just crazy I mean that's just that's absolutely crazy and it would be irresponsible in our part not to look at it I know you guys have to do your job and I guess I'm gonna have to contact somebody so that's fair I mean it because I know how this stuff works I mean I I just can't believe it we understand that I mean if we were in your position I mean we would feel the same way I just can't even believe it I mean it's just I mean I'm shocked I'm really shocked that somebody would be blamed saying that I did this I mean we had a fight so I went and killed her I mean come on oh that's alright well thanks for giving me the courage okay thanks for your time all right Stefan take care all right this is absolutely crazy okay Stephanie you know you have the right to remain silent do you understand yes anything you say may be used against you in court do you understand yes you have the right to the presence of an attorney before and during any questioning do you understand you cannot afford in the turn you want to be appointed for you free of charge before any questioning if you want do you understand you want to talk to us right now all right okay this is crazy this is absolute I'm like I'm like in shock I'm totally in shock we are back on the record in people versus Lazarus shortly before noon the jury announced they have a verdict we will take the bridge at this time people of the state of California versus Stephanie Eileen Lazarus case number ba three five seven four two three we the jury in the above-entitled action find the defendant Stephanie Eileen Lazarus guilty of the crime of murder of Sherri Rasmussen in violation of Penal Code section 187 a a felony as charged in count one of the information we further find the murder was of the first degree your honor on John Rutan thank you for the opportunity to speak during this hearing there are really no words that can describe the loss of sherry and the whole of the of this experience so it makes no sense to talk very long it suffice it to say that the Rasmussen family my family and Stephanie's family have been thrust into a bizarre world of disbelief and indescribable sadness sherri rasmussen had a profound impact on Sophie I was proud that she agreed to be my wife it was impossible not to notice Sherrie when she entered a room to me her physical presence was startling I can clearly remember the first moment I laid eyes on her sherri rasmussen was a physical presence and my heart still races when i look at pictures of her the cherry was extraordinary more for who she was in the way she looked she was a hard worker a consummate professional a leader a diplomat forgiving tough and a kid at heart Cherry's lost the way she died in the trial 25 years after her death has had a profound impact on many many others the effects are broad and span a generation creating pain for those whose lives should have never been touched by this tragic event again words are people tools for describing these impacts but there are so many moments in so very many tears and the fact that Sherry's death occurred because she met and married me brings me to my knees Stephanie Lazarus was sentenced to 27 years to life for the murder of Sherri Rasmussen she is currently being held inside the maximum-security unit of the central California women's facility any other cars that he spent out in your mind hmm [Music] this

Channel: JCS - Criminal Psychology

Views: 8,250,191

Rating: 4.8664331 out of 5

Keywords: true crime, criminology, forensic psychology, police interrogation, body language

Id: WLSNPkf8RCU

Length: 50min 19sec (3019 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 21 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/Bnmko_007]

This is super interesting. Thanks for sharing