An Interview with a Sociopath (Antisocial Personality Disorder and Bipolar)

what is it like to be you I'll say it's pretty average to be honest um if you are on the outside looking then you would say that it was pretty boring because for the most part I don't now now talk what I tend to do now is I tend to just really stick to myself because I have to be very careful about how I'm interacting with people and under what context I'm interacting with people um so I tend to limit anything that would be negative for me why do you have to limit yourself um because if I encounter a certain kind of person and if I'm talking to you and I sense a level of weakness I get kind of the urge to prey upon that in a way so in order for me to kind of mitigate that I definitely limit my my social interactions and I have to make sure it happens underneath the right context otherwise I just you know I try to stay away from me I have to be fully transparent when you reached out to me and I read your diagnosis mm-hmm I thought to myself can I trust him can I give him the platform of our audience who I care deeply about are you going to try to manipulate me are you going to try to manipulate our audience are those valid concerns those would be valid concerns for sure um but as I said earlier you know I don't I don't I I would say I like what you do because definitely people have voices that need to be heard and I would hate to you know disturb that process in any way when you say prey on somebody what do you mean so the way it would work for me is I'll speak to someone I won't really tell them much about me they'll tell me about them and then once they tell me about them I'll kind of form a personality I'll exaggerate certain features about my own personality to match what it is that they're looking to see and then once I once I get my goal whatever that goal is then I'm kind of I'm done with the situation and then I move on I've had feelings that I was strange as long as I could remember what was it like to feel strange at a young age um is a bit interesting I would say cuz you're kind of able to exist on the fringe um and kind of it's kind of like yeah you're you're on the outside looking in mm-hmm you know everybody's you know everybody's on the other side of that window pane so it kind of gives you the freedom to watch and to look and to observe especially if you're a quiet person naturally people can kind of forgive that you there did you feel like a different animal or different species um no I thought everyone else was different as a kid has a kid I thought they were the weird ones and you know what was weird about them do you um like why are y'all I guess why do you get so sad at certain things why do you get um so excited over certain things like it's not I just felt I just looked at it like this not it's not natural I wasn't really able to relate to other people and when people would get extremely angry or extremely sad um I would say he as a kid more so I would actually get annoyed you know our people would get overjoyed and you know sometimes people get super excited they jump up and down they clap as a kid I would get annoyed by that because it's like I don't understand why you what's the purpose of this overt display it doesn't doesn't do anything for anyone you know just the fact that you got good news it doesn't make the good news better if you jump up and down about it you know so I sat back and I watched people and I watch how they were able to do things and I use this information to outsmart people you know I was able to outsmart a lot of my teachers that's kind of how I started the manipulation and the lion I'm Howard I was smart a lot of my teachers I would come up with lies on the spot like I would come into class and my teacher attacks where's the homework I would tell her oh you know my dog he got rushed to the hospital last night we were there late until about 3:00 a.m. and there was this problem and that problem and that problem and I don't even have a dog never had a dog so would it be correct to say when you meet somebody you kind of size them up and you say okay this person shouldn't or should be manipulated um it's not should or shouldn't be um if I have something that I want to get then I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best to get it since I walked in here and we started talking have you sized me up at all and analyzed any of my weaknesses and how they could be manipulated I mean when I was watching the videos I mean I thought about it but I wanted this to be kind of like more of an honest format but no I didn't I don't want to yeah I don't want to and it's also I don't really gain anything from doing that in this situation anyway can a person ever fully trust a sociopath love um I would say that you have to you have to if this is someone that you actually care about you have to spend time with them and see actually where they where the head is that I would say I mean I would say if this is in most cases you wouldn't even know to be honest you wouldn't know until they did something to you if I'm being honest so but if you're me and someone like me who is gonna know who will tell you that this is what I'm going through I would say I would say watch them you know watch and see how it is they react to certain things um see if they you know are prone to outbursts see if they're willing to lie to you see if they're willing to manipulate you so I find it interesting that you said in order to trust a sociopath you have to watch them observe them and understand their behavior and so it's almost like you want people to act like you or you only understand the world from your perspective um I want to say it's that unnecessarily want people to act like me I look at it like it's more so about your own safety in a way um if you're dealing with someone that does have those kind of issues you know they do have strong urges um so that's where you know the observation point comes in because you can't always perceive certain things like that based off emotions I'm really good at faking emotions so you wouldn't if you're going off of emotional basis you wouldn't you wouldn't know when would you say the last time you've manipulated somebody hmm it's been about a year oh yeah yeah about a year how have you gone a year without that um I just I kind of limit my social interactions I make sure I'm not dealing with certain kinds of people did you always understand the negative affect manipulation can have on others no I didn't I didn't always understand why people had an adverse reaction to it um because in a way I kind of looked at it like a game um and you lost do you feel ashamed about people are you hurt in the past shame not necessarily but I do look at it as being inadequate you being inadequate yeah okay what do you mean by that it's low frequency you know low frequency actions low frequency emotions that's really it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't really help anyone I guess it serves me you know I get the fulfilling sensation but then I have to fulfill the sensation again so you could say even for me it's not it's not working so when you kind of think about it logically like that and you gain insight which is the issue people to have you know that diagnosis it's hard for them to have insight in terms of what other people are experiencing um so you know you have to you have to just gain a level of insight I would say what are all of your diagnosis so when it comes to antisocial personality these disorders specifically you can see a lot of overlap with different conditions so for me I have bipolar disorder there's the antisocial personality disorder and then also I have some traits of borderline personality disorder typically a person with the antisocial personality disorder if they're getting diagnosed is because either someone asks them to go that was close to that's hurt by their actions already did something illegal mm-hmm and now they have to see someone why did you seek out therapy in the first place um because I was going through for quite some time I was going through uh basically bipolar episodes so and it was unusual for me because there will be times where I'm like filling a level of happiness like this kind of overt happiness and then there would be just this deep depression where I don't want to leave bed or I'll be intensely angry or I'll be so numb that basically you know I wish I was dead and started certain certain circumstances I mean that was unusual for me because throughout my life I was used to not really feeling too much and I do feel like you know the bipolar disorder kind of resulted from the antisocial personality disorder I feel like it came from me just I guess trying too hard to feel like I was a regular person and then it it never works for too long because in order for you to have people close to you for a prolonged amount of time um they're gonna find out that something's wrong did you have any fear with telling the world your diagnosis no because I mean I've already been called you know all kinds of things so I don't think it really makes a difference to me it doesn't change my life in any way no do you have any type of emotional reaction where people call you those negative things it depends um you know because if it's something where I'm I guess you could say I'm trying to be genuine because I'm not always manipulating and lying to people with the intent of deceiving them sometimes I'll do it to make them comfortable mm-hmm so if I'm putting in all this effort to be something to make you more comfortable and it's not received back in that can have it affect on me you've smiled a few times in this interview this is that something you tell yourself to do to make me feel more comfortable yeah I smile a lot you know especially if I'm if I'm a regular conversation you would have seen me on the street yeah smiling like disarms people you know makes them more comfortable do you have the capability of feeling empathy for others not in the same way that an average person would so say for example if someone came up to you and they told you oh you know my grandma just died last night you may feel intrinsically sad when they tell you that and you know you may you may feel sensations almost as if your own grandmother passed away for me it's not like that I won't say that I don't care that's harsh but it doesn't make me sad to hear that at all so instead what I have to do is I have to logically understand that okay this is an event that people people typically get sadder um so I would have to find words of confidence to give them you know I'm sorry that happened to you I know that must be hard is anything I could do would you like to talk things like that my grandfather passed when I was about I was five or six I remember sitting on my father's lap and he was crying and I remember wiping the tears off his face and tell him it was gonna be okay you know I understood that my grandfather was going he wasn't gonna be coming back but at the same time I didn't understand why all the tears I would say I ended up becoming very perceptive to people it's not like a thing where sometimes people like I don't know if you can do it but people can walk into a room and kind of feel the mood without even really interacting or looking at anybody in the room I can't necessarily do that so I'll have to walk in I have to look people look at people observe um you know any body language and then from there you know I would go off for that so just all of that basically that it's just simulated emotions that I've been using when was the last time you felt happy um I don't know I don't know truly I don't know when was the last time you pretended like you felt happy all the time yeah all the time oh because you know it makes people uncomfortable if they're around someone like how do you not you know experience joy would it be correct to call you a sociopath I mean if you think in terms of scientific terms Scioscia sociopathy that's kind of they kind of discarded that term a while ago but in terms of what most people understand it to be I would say yes layman's terms yes do you have the desire to have a close relationship and maybe even get married in the future I'm not sure yet I'm not sure yet I'm not something that they're not debate with myself and I'm not a hundred percent sure if I want to get married and have children the notion of it seems reasonably nice to me I would say but I don't know if it would be a hundred percent possible because when you speak about romantically it's difficult to get people to understand that is you know people start to feel inconsequential when I tell them it's you know it's not necessarily it's not it's not really you like if I if I like a person me liking a person is based off of traits that I notice within them that I feel like would be basically beneficial for me going down the road and I would like to explore those traits further so it's hard to kind of explain to someone that you know it's in our emotional sense in a romantic sense you know I'm not super connected for me it's a sense of duty and commitment so i'ma do things for you because you are who you want to me um and but you know people they in the relationships you know they want more they want a little bit more from you so it gets to the point where I'll basically put that mask on to make them happy um but I can't I can't hold it up forever so they find out that there are some you know inconsistencies there in terms of the emotions and when you're trying to get someone to see past the emotional aspect and just look at it in the sense of you know how I look at it you know I'm committed to you they don't really it's hard to kind of explain that people start to feel like you know they're inconsequential it's not really me that matters if I want to connect to someone like in a relationship for example if I meet someone that I have an interest in romantically I can't I don't like you the same way like you know how people like each other I don't feel any emotional attachment to that so in order to make someone comfortable and lack of emotional attachment you know I have to wear a mask like I have to remind myself to tell my family members I love them you know I have to remind myself to maintain in contact with my friends and things like that so you know it can be it can be off-putting you know if I'm not exaggerating a bit so I want to make sure I'm interpreting interpreting this correctly it's almost transactional you see that they have personality traits that will benefit you but then you also want to do things for them to keep those personality traits around because you know in the long run that's more beneficial than not having that person around exactly it's almost like a math equation yeah I would say I would I would agree with that it kind of is like a math equation um so you know I would say I would say there's definitely like anybody else some people I like a little bit more than others of course so some people I would try a little bit harder but yeah that's that's kind of what it is is a transactional thing for me people they'll be very wary of you so anybody that I tell they're very wary of me is that what it is it warranted I would say yes I would say yes because you do you do have to be relatively careful when you're dealing with someone who truly has an antisocial personality disorder um you know it's not necessarily a thing where you're gonna be there's gonna be physical violence or you know you're gonna be hurt or anything like that but if that person doesn't have insight as to how their actions actually affect other people I would say the likelihood for you know you being manipulated even if it's in a small way is gonna be very high because most people with you know sociopathic tendencies they're not gonna always formulate super grand schemes to take advantage of people sometimes it would just be you know I'm looking to get lunch today so let me manipulate this person over here so I can get ten dollars and go get lunch the fact that you're talking so openly about all of this can that means that you're not really concerned with wearing a mask anymore no no so it's just I've come to a point where it's just I have to accept it that this is who I am you know and trying to do much to do too much to change that is where I start seeing negative things come into play do you want to feel like a regular person I would say I wanted to at one point um but I've kind of let go of that more so recently I mean it has been hoping because I find that the more I try to fit in the easier it becomes for me to do negative things you manipulate you know lie and become angry you know ridiculously angry what is your motivation not to do that stuff um a I just feel like it just it's too much chaos that I'm putting out there in the world and that's really that's really it I just feel like it's too much chaos and that's logically that's just not a good thing is that something you realized independently or did therapy help hmm I was saying therapy definitely hope helped me realize that because you know speaking with my favorite place for the for the two years um she she helped me realize that a lot a lot of the things I was doing was basically it was all kind of self-serving and at a certain point you do have to gain a level of insight and realize that you know you're making your own life harder but what say to the people you've heard in the past I would say I wouldn't even say that I hope you can forgive me I would say it's more so hope you could forgive me forgive yourself there's not anything wrong with you you are still perfectly fine as a person and I would say basically almost say don't take it so personally don't but don't look at it like you know there's something wrong with you you know it was something that was wrong with me basically is it so wrong with you um I struggle with it that's why you know I limit myself in certain situations do you view yourself as better than other people yeah oh definitely but I do my best to kind of combat that cuz that comes from you know how smart in people you get this sense of you know inflated sense of self um you know almost narcissistic I would say do you believe you're better than me um I would say based off of my belief system no um simply because of a work that you do again not really an emotional thing is just the work that you do you know people benefit from it so what is your belief system um I just certain things all right and certain things are wrong and that's it is that something you taught yourself or is that learning through therapy it was a combination it was a combination um because you know my therapist would help me she will help me navigate through the confusion like I would come to her with certain problems like you know I said this to that person and they and they reacted to me like this why why did that happen I don't understand you know I thought that I was and belaying the best I could so it would be things like that and she would teach me the difference between just emulating and exaggerating versus trying to more so genuinely connect with people and that's where the that's where the whole under like we mentioned earlier you know someone told you that their grandmother passed you know you have to realize and you have to recognize that that can be a horrible event for people do you have any fear that once you share your diagnosis people will always be skeptical about you I mean that's not necessarily a fear it's it's a it's a given for me it's a given I would say I'm more surprised when people don't judge it do you have any fears fears um I would say the fear of being inadequate that's the main one the fear being mediocre I don't wanna I don't want to die feeling like I didn't know anything basically and that would be that's really my only fear how would you define inadequate um just having no no benefits or the world basically do you think most people are inadequate I won't say most because there's quite a bit of people in the world I mean I haven't met most but I would say yeah there you know there's a good amount of people that would say all right adequate is that why you're okay with manipulation because you view many people as an adequate no that's not the main reason um even if I view the person has adequate and I'm able to still manipulate them that's like bonus points I mean we're all so motivated you know we're all a big narcissists we're all a bit you know we are a bit you know but we're competent where does it go from the the typical amount of narcissist the typical amount of self driven okay you now have antisocial personality disorder I can't speak to that that would be again I would be like a personal person basis you know but it's a trace that we all had in order for you to survive in the world you have to be a bit narcissist everybody does things that are self-serving eating and drinking are self-serving um you know we're literally killing the planet with eating habits for example we're killing the planet with our transportation habits it's all every people do things that are self-serving so it's not inherently a bad thing as long as the things that you're doing that are so serving aren't resulting in negative outcomes for other people as well as yourself so what makes you care about having a negative impact on other people is that intrinsic no no it's just it's just a matter of you know you're causing unnecessary problems for other people and I look at it from a very logical perspective because you know a lot of things a lot of trauma is passed down so if I if I do something to it to you for example and you carry that throughout the rest of your life I don't know if you have a wife or kids but let's say you go on to have a wife and kids and now you're trauma from the event that you had with me filters into that now your wife starts to get a level of trauma your kids start to get a level of trauma other people that are close to you start to get to a level of trauma anyone you meet it's possible the same thing can happen so I look at it from that perspective it's not an emotional thing as just as really as a logical thing what was it like before you were so self-aware I would say it was very very confusing very confusing because I didn't quite understand why it was I didn't feel the way regular people felt um and I would also I would often do things that would be you know categorizes sensation chasing so you know you know you you would engage in illegal activities for example um you know and if you don't get caught that's quite a rush you know it's quite a rush to not get caught doing something that's that's things that I used to do lying and manipulating people that gave me a sense of power in a way because you know I can't necessarily feel anything myself in a way so it gave me a sense of power to know that I can control other people's feelings do you think you will manipulate somebody in the future no well not to the extent that I did it before at least I can see myself doing that if I'm engaging in the business deal it might be beneficial for me to get you to raise that bottom line you know stuff like that you know which is manipulation it's just now it might be the way that our collective minds have been trained through mainstream media but when you say that my first thought is that's what a manipulator would say yeah should I ever lose that skepticism should the viewer ever lose that skepticism when interacting with somebody with antisocial personality disorder you gotta you gotta norm like I said the people down no you know how I've had my friends for in between 8 and 13 years you know 12 13 years so it's like they're not too concerned about that because you know they know they basically they know that you know this is this is a relationship that's been pre-existent the people that are close to me I don't really do anything upset those people because that's not beneficial to me to upset the people that are close to me where are you or are you ever a risk to be violent um if you cross certain lines for sure definitely um I can get to a period where it's like I shut down like say if um you know we were to get into a heated argument and you're yelling and screaming um I'll probably just hit you I won't talk too much what is that like for you though I don't tolerate disrespect and any any shape of form that's kind of the main thing that would get me angry the quickest what do you perceive as disrespect if you show any disregard for me basically so kind of the same things that I would do to another person more or less you know but that's kind of like a ego thing which you know I do I do work on so I don't mean this with any disrespect mm-hmm but would it be correct to call you a hypocrite then so calling me a hypocrite um I would say yeah in a way um and that's that's that's exactly you know why you know I would would I want to work on my problems and do more positive that's why I do my best now to not manipulate people and lie to them and do things like that because I know that if somebody was to do it to me you know depending on again it depends on the context too it depends on what's actually at stake you know how would you explain what it is like to have your diagnosis to somebody who has the typical range of emotions um I would compare it today that first moment when you wake up in the morning and the world is kind of just an empty canvas and there's not much really happening yet so you're just super neutral that's really how I would I would describe it how do you look at yourself um I just look at myself as just pretty normal pretty average you know I think the media kind of overly sensationalizes you know inside social personality disorders in general they make it seem like most of us are just murderers and which is off the hinge which in some cases rare cases year can be true but most people that is because all all mental health issues exist on the spectrum so most people um you're gonna see that gonna exhibit these traits are gonna be high-functioning so you would career fields like doctors CEOs lawyers you typically see them engage in those fields because a lot of that stuff is logical it's not really emotional based and the way you're dealing with people again is an emotional basis or logic so you'll find you know people like me in those fields are you proud of yourself for anything I mean I do I do have a sense of pride I mean I would say I'm proud of myself for sitting here right now because this is something that I would normally do I'm sure even people that I know and people in my family are gonna watch this and they may be surprised to hear that you know I do have certain issues what would you like to say to those who are close to you who are learning about this for the first time it's tell me you know hopefully they're not offended by anything then I say you know a lot of people that are you know I've only really I've only actually told maybe maybe two people about it I mean they have you know people typically I've have adverse reactions to it because people start to feel like oh you know well you don't care about me right and that's not necessarily the case I just have my own way of going about it what is the most important thing somebody can learn from this interview um I would say I did this more so for people with you know antisocial personality disorder I didn't necessarily do it for people that don't have it um because I want I want people that suffer from it to go to go get the help I want them to learn how to use all those techniques that we use to lie to manipulate to hurt use that to benefit people you know if you can because you know it just has a collective effect that's really how you have to look at it you have to look at it in a logical way it has a collective effect um and it makes your life more enjoyable you know and people will be more so willing to I guess accept who you are and again it's not really emotional thing it just it makes it easier for you to live life when you're not having to constantly hide and you know lurk within the shadows what do you think when you hear the term sociopath regular person with less emotions to be honest because that's what really most people would be that they have antisocial personality and personality disorder it's just you know the sensations we feel we don't get a lot from the external world and then again you know everything is on a spectrum so I can't necessarily speak to other people's experiences but I know my own experience that's how it is

Channel: undefined

Views: 8,258,096

Rating: 4.8921175 out of 5

Keywords: Antisocial Personality Disorder, Bipolar, Borderline personality disorder, sociopath, SBSK, Mental Health, Chris Ulmer, Inclusion

Id: bdPMUX8_8Ms

Length: 33min 0sec (1980 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 10 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/Neverforgetdumbo]

Amazing questioning. All my thoughts that came up were answered by the following question. Articulate, dynamic interviewer.

[u/zzzzzacurry]

The responses of people stating they relate to what this person says and because of that makes them question whether he's a sociopath is well, exactly why he's sociopath.

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Sociopaths have this incredible ability to manipulate people, particularly groups of people, with either their charm or their ability to be questionable in both good and bad aspects. He's presented as a sociopath so right away you have an expectation of what you think a sociopath should behave like -- and he is aware of this, so he uses that to subvert your expectations, presents himself in a way to make him relatable while still declaring things that are major giveaways he's a sociopath as an additional tactic to confuse you. The more confused and unsure you are, the more you're likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This is why you hear about CEO's of major companies (who have a higher tendency to be sociopathic) advance far in their industry despite all the obvious red flags. I always equate it to a very poor form of manipulation that is still effective, where someone may give a sob story of their childhood as a means to gain leniency for their bad behavior.

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But then again, who knows what the exact method of diagnosis this kid was subjected to or how certified the person doing the diagnosis was.

[u/Fizjig]

This is interesting to me because I feel like the exact opposite of him. I have always had a strong emotional connection and empathy towards the people around me. I am not overly emotional in the sense that I have an outburst of tears or happiness. In fact, most of the time I don't really share what I am feeling.

That doesn't mean that I don't feel those things. I have just become very good at keeping a "poker face".

He talked about not being able to read a room. I have the opposite situation. I can usually tell what the feeling is upon the first contact. The strongest for me is when someone is uncomfortable, or angry. Even when they are doing their best to mask it I "feel" right through that. I guess if I was an interrogator or a detective it would be a handy skill to have. Sometimes, especially with negative emotions, I have to remove myself from the situation even if I am not involved, because it starts to impact my own feelings.

It's not some psychic bullshit. I cannot read minds, or tell the future, or any of that nonsense. I am good at reading people, however. I can typically tell when someone is attempting to lie to me or trick me. People give themselves away too easily. I am also not swayed by sales tactics. You cannot make me feel inadequate, guilty, or FOMO to change my opinion of a person or a product. In that respect, I am a stubborn SOB.

It also manifests itself when people are being sarcastic, or overly dramatic. I find theatrics to be annoying. I prefer people just say what they mean and I respect bluntness.

All of that being said I seldom, if ever, let on to it. I don't make people aware, even if they are lying to me. Most of the time the lies I see are people's insecurities surfacing. They are trying to make a good impression. It's innocent enough, but I still cannot help but notice it. I try not to judge people too harshly. Most people do it to some extent.

You would think with a strong emotional awareness I would be better at sympathizing when someone is going through something difficult. It's actually the opposite. If I allow myself to get too close to those situations its a rabbit hole that I have a hard time avoiding. I will get very upset myself which can be super awkward if I am not directly involved in the situation. This was a much bigger problem when I was younger and had a lot less control over my emotions.

I was that kid that would freak out seemingly for no reason in class. I would get super upset and not be able to explain why. That lead to a lot of school counselor sessions and being labeled the "weird" kid in class.

I guess this video just hit close to home with some of the things he mentioned. I have not been diagnosed with any conditions. Nor do I feel like I suffer from any of the things he does. I do relate to feeling different than others though. Especially when I see someone being disrespectful or cruel to others. That behavior is something that I have never been able to reconcile. I cannot imagine causing people distress or harm in that way.

[u/Taymerica]

Is it to normal to kind of relate to most of this? or am I way off. Cause I feel like I've felt a lot of these type of feelings most of my life, but I've managed to just cope better.... but literally half the things he's saying I've said to myself at least a few hundred times?..

[u/BlabbityBlabbity]

Found this fascinating! Such an articulate dude, can see how the traits sometimes take people far into fields like business.

[u/JimmyHILFIGER]

I have ASPD and what i don't understand is the fact he claims to avoid social situations and manipulating people, i have no idea what is stopping him and why he does that.

[u/EridasGrudge]

i noticed that when he wanted a little more leniency on the things he was saying he would use a wavering, almost vibrato, tone that people usually have when they’re about to start crying. granted this may just be his voice because i noticed this wavering all throughout but when he was saying harsher stuff or things he wanted to emphasize, this waver let up a TON to where he almost had a completely flat tone. Now i’m no vocologist nor am I a linguist, obviously, but does anyone else hear this? or am i just making stuff up in my head? lmaoo

[u/pantless_pirate]

Keep in mind, if you had a disorder like he has, you wouldn't comment on Reddit saying "OMG I'm just like this."

You wouldn't share that information openly online. It would pose no strategic benefit to you. Look at how he talks 5 minutes in, "I wouldn't gain anything from that."

[u/FunkoXday]

Still outrageous they banned comments for this channel. Especially when he interviews kids. They love reading the positive comments of people all over the world relating to them