The Frost Interview: Garry Kasparov

they call him the greatest chess player of all time from super brains to super computers he's taken them all and won but now this Russian is locked to the quick in a different kind of stroke this regime is criminal she's a police state I've come to Abu Dhabi Commission hey how are you Garry Kasparov he'll tell us about his legendary clashes with Anatoly Karpov any match of that caliber is a posting live with purely and a few less legendary clashes since then and what was it like in a Russian prison gary will reveal the tragic family history of ethnic cleansing being forced to leave the city where you were born and raised was quite tragic and share his views on Russian President Vladimir Putin is very clear that Putin's room will not be stopped by the ballot it's the ultimate battle of tactics strategy and wits in the beginning that if you lost you had a finger cut off or you were killed a 1500 year old game of such mind-boggling complexity that men have gone insane play mathematically speaking there are as many possible chess games as atoms in the visible universe and from his birth in Azerbaijan in 1963 chess was again good garry kasparov how old were you when you first played chess probably before I turn six just watching my parents according to the official legend let's just all by my mother and probably that was you know true I was watching them trying to solve the problem from a newspaper column and I learned how to play without being told how to move the pieces I knew it was a game design for me okay we're always very you know self-confident so I I loved it I loved not just to play but study the game so I spent time even on my own and actually my mother limited my my enthusiasm because I just went to this to the chest training session only once a week when I was seven or eight on Sunday so just because it was quite far away from home you lost your father when we were very young yeah it was it was seven mmm so someone so and he was just 39 died from leukemia so and it was really big big shock I mean I such a lovely couple my mother and my father and and since he's gone you know she's spent her entire life working for me so and just for my success so that's I couldn't be more grateful for or for my mother she turned 76 she's still full of energy and the energy is just concentrated on helping me in my numerous endeavors that those endeavors revolved around chess was fortuitous for a young player there was no better place to be than the Soviet Union why was chess established by then as the national sport almost no del Russia had quite strong chess traditions going back to the mid 19th century don't forget Russian glued Baltics at that time in Poland in many great places she came from that region yes that's Jewish players yes but in general there was a strong foundation more than just the tradition chess was actively promoted by the Soviet Union's revolutionary leaders in a country obsessed with excellence especially when it came to competing against the West the game was a means of demonstrating not just sporting but also intellectual superiority the world champion in the Soviet Union was not just a champion or three champion of any given sport discipline it was a public figure seen by many as disorder of the role model and there were very few options for kids to succeed so that's why parents if they wanted their their kid to become special chess was a natural choice for many parents to make Gary astonished his teachers with his natural aptitude for the game taking the all Soviet Junior Chess title in 1976 he was just 13 when did you realize that you you weren't going to be just a good chess player but you're going to be special look you know is this it's in I would I would look for some you know milestones my career so I think the first one is just we go back as was age 14 when I knew I would be a real contender for that for the world championship title so age 14 was so a crucial point I knew I was very good even special before but at 14 you know when I made him my master norm and I you know it just it's not just playing better but just you know you feel that's you have so much energy and you can move on with with with with was your career in 1980 Gary became world junior champion and an international Grandmaster he was now 70 looking back perhaps knowing the inner learning later what was the most important quality is the most important quality of being a chess grandmaster now you have to start with a talent if you want to be a really really a special player you ever start with a talent and then it's also your ability to work because I believe it's also talent an ability to work hard is a special talent many talented people do not have funny that you say that when I was in Bobby Fischer during the six months he was in the public eye was about all he was after me and Ed Edmondson of the Chess Federation in America and so I was saying you great thing about Bobby it said to Bobby they're the great thing about is his will to win that's why is it and Bobby Fischer shook attention I played a lot of chess players they've got wonderful will to win but they were no good exactly as you say the town town for but also it's about working it's about excelling it's about learning from your own mistakes and actually being very open with yourself or even relentless to recognize that you made a mistake because many great players they try to sort of avoid digging up and finding out that they were not perfect so the it is this these permanent challenge to find out what you did wrong and to improve that's you know that's for me it's it's it's a key of success of going from the from being very good to very special how important is instinct I think that instinct you may call intuition it's the it's highly undervalued element of success intuition something that you cannot exclude attach insist gut feelings and you feel it's right things to do you may be wrong but in a trait intuition as a muscle you know if you don't train your muscles you cannot get stronger if you don't trust your intuition you will never you know become a good decision maker and in terms of where games in progress how far ahead can you guys into the future 1012 even 15 moves for top player is doable but the natural range of the operation for a professional player I make call recall my own practice would be four to five moves because you know in in most of the positions I have one option and then my opponent can have three other options and then I have so it is it's it's it's more it's it's a geometrical progression in 1984 gary finally got his chance at the biggest prize of all the world championship but to win it he'd have to be the greatest chess player of the time anatoly karpov son of a worker from the Urals learns chess at the age of four master at fifteen crowned world champion in 1975 national hero in the Soviet period it was then the most personal rivalry in that in that contest to most of them I mean did you encounter really not not get on really look you know any match of that caliber is a personal rivalry period yes and naturally you know this kind of level rivalry creates a lot of tension and it added to the did you do to the mutual frustration and I guess I guess you know it was all more unnatural Karpov is very solid positional white player you know just looking for small gains and it's quite unique style so I'm totally the opposite series you may call the fire roses eyes so the main characteristic see they created this unique competitive field and in fact there was a sense in which people around the world sort of pictured top offers the regular communist and you as the sort of somehow voice of independent freedom or whatever it became a bit political in that sense Anatoly Karpov received enormous support from the state and became some sort of the savior of the pride intellectual pride of the Soviet Union he followed the rigid discipline they have the important rules while I was some sort of a rebel so I believe that there are certain rules that I have to obey but you know in a big picture you know I I didn't believe in following these rigid regulations I was not shy of giving introduced to the Western press again at the time when it was quite questionable I mean not as dangerous as as in Stalin's of residence time but but it still you know was not welcomed by the authorities 1984's championship was a brutal confrontation both players locked in a struggle of unbelievable complexity the winner the first two six rituals thirty years later Gary's still recalls every game this is not a game starting but this is a game after 20 moves often ah yeah actually it's the in our matches Karpov that was almost a starting position you know because we where the theoretical duel so that one actually Karpov played black always this position I played white we spent time with our you know teams you know preparing and just you know trying to exhaust all the options and it's for a long time you know was a very important theoretical position actually I think the modern evaluation tells that black is fine but I succeeded in actually winning kept quite a few important games against the Karpov because I never lost this position with white pieces for five months now Anatoly Karpov and Garry Kasparov have been locked in mortal intellectual combat for the title of world chess champion the psychological pressure is said to be appalling the score was five games to three when the International Chess Federation intervened and called a halt Karpov had apparently cracked there were reports of a nervous breakdown the president of the Chess Federation said that the match should be stopped because it was damaging to your health not just your health is okay with this but that's damaging using those notices yeah from my perspective was absolute nonsense you know and amazingly Karpov who was technically leading at that point 5 to 3 he obeyed actually no he agreed with a decision at the press conference when the decision was announced to close the match I stood up posing it which was quite unheard it was February 9 95 even before Gorbachev to take over so from Genco in late 1985 there was a rematch this time there was no escape for copper garry kasparov had finally arrived for 21 years gary would remain the greatest chess player in the world the longest ever period of any player ever some people would say well what what do you do next you've done that it's up to us what we want to do with our success because you know eventually you know if if we are successful we just have to make a conscious decision what's next and for me there was always the next station because I I was it was enough for me just to win I would wanted to make the difference gary said about making that difference launching an offensive against chess is ruling Federation feeder for what he regarded as the travesty of the previous year's World Championship they don't want to move the power how means money in money means in influence I am defending the chest against it is international chess mafia we saw the the not just inconsistencies in video politics but also its inability to capture the attention of the corporate sponsor I was probably trying to impose very dramatic set of actions the way I play chess instead of trying to come up with the comprehensive long-term planning eventually Garry and British player Nigel short form their own breakaway Chess Federation the professional chess Association business is business and on this question we're totally together for over a decade fee day and the new organization fought the ultimate loser the game of chess itself now I think you know just it's it's it was probably though too much for me to to to carry on because either just to become the best in the world by h22 have it's just puts enormous psychological pressure the pressure mounted Gary was the reigning champion but anatoly karpov just wouldn't lay down and die we started in 84 we played 84 85 endless match unlimited match then we played 85 rematch 86 another rematch 87 another match and then in 1990 so five matches and and just you know the finishing carpel off as my you know nemesis a historic opponent so I think it was certain moment when I just realized it was the end of the certain part of my life as one part ended another began mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall by the time Gary finally finished off the Communist Party's favorite player it wasn't only carpel who was in trouble and there are a great change change for the good would you say yes absolutely and it when reagan said is is his historic phrase yeah here on his wall 1987 very few people could believe they would see it with their own eyes so actually i was one of them and i i sense that the soviet system who wouldn't survive in its I know rigid form and 89 the collapse of Berlin Wall I believe it was just you know it was not just liberation of the Eastern Europe I think it was just you know the end of this utopia very dangerous couture pair that threatened the entire world but the new world brought instability as the republics of the Soviet Union began to fragment results were to effect Gary profound one of the first was Azerbaijan and his hometown backer if you look at the map of the old Soviet Union there were many places were clashes ethnic clashes you know they can change the political landscape and Baku was one of the most tragic because of the numbers and also for me personally for me I grew up there half Armenian half Jewish and aside many I mean in relatives in January 1990 ethnic and religious tensions long held in check by central authority in Moscow erupted onto the streets a crowd - some 50,000 people who were leaving from a demonstration at the Lenin square committed pogroms destruction arson violence and murders the country's majority as Airy population formed lynch mobs and hunted down their Armenian former compatriots machine top Hollywood Nogami gives up agam inner goddess Dionysus Pagani's after eight days of appalling violence Soviet authorities intervened but instead of stopping the killing their arrival only accelerated the process these ethnic clashes and pogroms sort of offered a an excuse for central sources from Moscow to use military force and to establish some sort of the KGB military rule a in these hotspots it didn't save the Empire which was above talked to - - to crumble but it cost thousand thousand wives and hundreds of thousands if not millions considering the entire inner perimeter of the Soviet Union millions of people who suffer within a fortnight nearly 200,000 ethnic Armenians had fled their homeland never to return we all live Baku and never came back so we're just leaving by forcefully leaving the being forced to leave the city where you were born and raised and grew up that's spent 27 first 27 years of your life yeah hey you know it was quite challenging but I was 27 my mother was 52 and my grandmother she was 78 so that says for her it was quite tragic the psychological trauma was very very strong and thinking about hundreds of thousands of others who had been evicted from their houses you know lost or everything day they collected over their lives I mean that's that's that this this sword is still painful about this time 1998 it you made the decision to leave the Communist Party after this strategy and enjoyed and I left my native town I decided that there was no no no good reason for me to stay within the party because we you know as as every professional player I know I had no choice but just to join it to to be part of these playing elites and just but I always felt that I was able by by using my membership to criticize what I believed was wrong so very often I just reached the limits sometimes maybe over reached my limits but the world title helped me to actually stay afloat but after Baku I just sense the trust was totally useless and I lost any hopes that within the Communist Party there could be any any any positive change and general in 1990 more than 18 months before the August coup and the collapse of the communist party I I quit did you feel that you could really take from that position at the beginning 1990 and really have a dynamic political effect um you know when I left Baku I was just about to 27 so just quite young under standards but one on the hand I was already walljumping for almost five years and I believe that by doing nothing by pretending that this battle this fight didn't touch me I would do disservice for for my for the citizens of my country not that I expected myself to just create a coup by by standing and just making a statement but for me from 1990 to nowadays being part of this fight for for human rights and for political decency in the Soviet Union now in Russia it's like a moral duty what happened next is the test Gary's moral duty to its limit we'll discover how in Part two when we'll also learn his thoughts on computer chess d blue wars you know it once I call it a $10,000,000 alarm clock Russian politics today I don't think anybody could predict the return of the KGB to power and Moscow's most infamous punk rocker I always said that evade a sneak but but singing you know God say Putin they would be probably awarded you you why was chess simon abu dhabi with chess legend garry kasparov the most famous player in the history of the game hello is on a global mission to promote it in schools hello there and I've been invited along this time I will beat the sky I did for these young chaps are here why is their life going to be enriched by playing chess the experience that we have in collecting from all over the world literally shows that classes was chess are doing better in general curriculum the questions are yes I play chess because I find a really refreshing sport I play chess and then I go study and it helps me concentrate I think I learned how to think of future focus because if I move the wrong piece for chess the opponent will kill me how do you learn to place your computer I'm sure yeah you can't you can have a problem on iPads don't tell me you don't have an iPad I'm sure you do today's computer chess is a long way from the early gaming machine fascinated by this infinite chessboard man has always wanted to solve its riddle the great automaton II of the 18th century gave the illusion that he had succeeded but it was only an illusion that was always a brilliant [ __ ] hidden in the machine in the 1980s the race was on to design a computer powerful enough to mimic a human being a machine that could actually think was it even remotely possible the stakes are high in one corner the world's greatest chess player 34 year-old Garry Kasparov in the other the world's greatest chess playing computer a machine called deep blue according to this documentary 1996 is man versus machine competition did not go as planned for Garry call it a blow against humanity after six games over nine days deep blue the IBM computer beat Garry Kasparov considered to be the best chess player in the history of the game deep blue kiss borrow and allegations were raised that computer giant IBM did not play fair I still believe that used to be game studies welcome specialists because the exception to that little hat was that a memorable experience I mean yeah it's a pretty good batting average against the computer it's the yeah I just people just tend to forget that it was a rematch actually said you know which means I won the first one yes I'll say yes the it's irony is that in the public mind sort of close the chapter of man versus machine and then even further was the beginning of the are of the triumph of artificial intelligence deep blue was you know once I call it a $10,000,000 alarm clock so it was just calculating calculate calculating which again was enough to play at the highest level that it was not not a step towards artificial intelligence because it was based exclusively on the brute force of calculation actually is if somebody's interested in also position where I resigned it's quite amazing that both myself and machine actually missed that black had a very unusual way of saving the game so really so neither you know the computer yeah I just you know it just it's amazing because I thought it was it was it and because you know I it's rustic I just trusted the machine I also bro broke one of the important rules you know it's never late to resign absolutely and then soon you come face to face with Victor kramnik was that a different to the other exchanges or was it was different to playing the computer obviously ok whatever chronic was twelve years younger and then I was and irony is that you know at one point he was my student in how join school was Michael Booth Winnick but later you know he also worked with me at my match was Vishy Anand in 1995 this has been a very different world chess championship as ever the players were Russian but they played in London were visible live only on the Internet and the commentary was in French most dramatically of all the great Garry Kasparov lost both his cool and his title in game 13 needing desperately to win he'll suddenly offer this raw was here outstanding a parent you know I was 37 I was still playing pretty good chess but in this match he was superior in the way he prepares I have to admit that I was probably too complacent complacently the wrong world problem just in the loser may be overconfident but actually it's it's it's I believed in my own invincibility question for Gary Kasparov what is wrong with you the match was actually quite helpful because it just did it so they shook my my brother shook of my brains but you know I lost the title which again probably had had to happen one day I kept it for 15 years and for me was important that after losing the match I could come back the fact is that after we played this match so I kept on winning top tournaments and actually never lost another game to Vladimir Kramnik so in classical chess and I kept my number one rating for five more years so why I learned that you know it's never late to learn so that's why you know it's even at age 37 you can learn from younger generation and that was a very important lesson not only for the remaining 5 years of my chest career but also for the food for future years because not just I just recognized that I mean flexibility is a fundamental quality for success in Gary's 20-year chess career success was never in short supply but nothing lasts forever I made a conscious decision that Linares 2005 will be my last professional end and today I played my last professional game is there a maximum age or can you be a chess champion it if you want to be at 65 it's very demanding games so you have to spend time at the computer analyzing preparing new ideas and then you just play under this heavy pressure so we just it's it's it it sucks a little energy out of you so and players in their 20s overly serious they they definitely have physical advantage so all the competitors I probably would be able to play few more years but I made a decision to retire and it was not just overnight you know that did and the end of the tournament in Spain in the city of Linares but just beforehand I thought I already made enough difference in the game of chess so just making difference was important I just recognized that maybe it's time just to move on so just just to start changing my life before it's too late so you can't stay in chess indefinitely because you need everybody needs challenges so and I thought about other challenges at the head of those challenges politics Gary's interest dated back to epoch-making events in 1991 when the Communist Empire correct the birth of an independent Russia heralded an era of optimism it was not the laughs in 1991 when we had our own collapse of Berlin walls or the collapse of the Soviet regime in Moscow and it's the heart of the solid state I don't think anybody could predict the return of the KGB to power less than 10 years from the Gary the key error was the oceans in 1999 the Russian President appointed his own successor a young ambitious former KGB officer Vladimir Putin pootin by far you know is the richest man on earth who controls hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars that allocated through this oil and gas export and other selling other riches of Russia and he's determined to use every opportunity every muscle whether it's military or intelligence or financial to maintain maintain his power we are now leaving in a country that is anything but democracy it's a one-man rule and it's very clear that the Putin's rule will not be stopped by by the ballot most of the opposition leaders now they are under constant criminal investigation with some ridiculous accusations and criminal cases and it seems that Putin is is determined to end this period of opposition activities by simply throwing everybody behind bars or kicking them out of the country for Gary the archetypal case me I'll order cuffs in 2003 Russia's richest oil baron criticized Putin's administration for its alleged corruption first of the corrupt secrecy for separate organizations and allies extent of corruption in Russia all arrived at a significant 30 billion dollars the president was not amused eight months later horochowski was himself arrested and charged with fraud he was eventually sentenced to 12 years in prison in response to what they saw as buting's heavy-handed methods Russian activists took to the streets to protest Garry joined this regime is criminal she's a colles state they arrest people everywhere well those days of the protest marches and so on obviously still fresh in your memory um I would call that those days for quite vegetarians compared to what's happening in Russia today it's 2007 it's almost six years ago and yes at that time the government was not very keen to see protests on the speed we march nearing growth there with small crowds like four or five thousand people and you could get beaten arrested for a few days and you were i was i was detained number of times arrested on and stayed in prison five days in 2006 what was it like a Russian prison look it's not nice and in prison is a prison so even if you stay there five days it's still high level pleasant yeah but today it's it's all changed there now it's not just in a few days suppose now they are threatening people with you know long terms there are criminal cases there's actually one huge criminal case is unfolding in Russia now so-called the riots on May 6 where every video piece of video footage shows you that the police provoked and attacked in an unarmed crowd of tens of thousand people and eventually with with all the provocations caused by these certain people installed in the crowd and again it's all seen it's all recorded now is they're trying to accuse opposition of inciting hatred and even an attempt of coup d'etat so which is the state treason and call for mass riots as part of this of this big trial prepared by putin's henchmen according to his critics putin's henchmen are capable of less subtle tactics we had one of the worst records in in in targeting journalists like Anna Politkovskaya it's it's pretty sad record of of journalists being killed or badly injured for saying negative things about about top government officials on the wall at the conference room at the newspaper where anna worked a memorial to her and five other staff from Navia killed while reporting on crime and corruption in Russia but the man who was commissioned to look into her assassination for the paper says his investigations took him into the upper reaches of government mr. Kosan it's obvious that Politkovskaya murder is political the person behind this murder is not a regular civilian or businessman when this person is placed very high in social and political hierarchy of our country a we come from Poland come sky is death Russian intelligence officer Alexander Litvinenko a huge vision of sanctioning the murder two weeks later he was assassinated in London there is no hard proof that the Russian government was complicit in either killing but speaking out against the administration can be a hazardous business over the years that you've been a leading rebel have you been conscious of aware of being followed someone attempting to hurt you or kill you I was not a target of of something that dramatic but for eight years I've been you know I've been hiring bodyguards while I'm in Russia you know I feel very comfortable by being anywhere but in my country you know I feel that is there was a need and they still need to be protect against the unprovoked attacks by unknown kula guns which caused so much damage for many of our prominent Russians who opposed the regime as for being attacked or followed it's 24/7 so you live in Russia you you know they don't they're not even hiding many of our telephone conversations have been having published everybody knows it just it's released by the by Russian security any moment you're any given moment you're in Russia you should understand that you know you are under you know constant watch of the Big Brother so I you know it's like the rules of the game so you play this game you know that's you know you can you can't escape that because here's a former KGB general Oleg Kalugin who's alleged true said about you I wouldn't be surprised to hear about something terrible happening to him look you know it's very hard to teach you to to to be impassionate talking about about such predictions but again while you are in putin's russia you you can expect anything but in a last year things changed actually from wars because they go after you with the whole power of the russian state so that's the prosecution investigators and they don't care about it when excuses now they find anything that take they can invent and you're really part of the criminal vestigation talking of criminal investigations here is Russian punk band [ __ ] Riot with their latest single mother of God drive putin away harmless fun well Russian prosecutors didn't desert in 2012 three band members of [ __ ] Riot were arrested as charged from hooliganism to still serving prison sentences [ __ ] right is that another typical typical example of the way things are going now it's you know it's amazing that this relatively minor case actually told more about Putin's rise to the rest of the world than many more prominent cases by by by political standards in Russia I always said that if they dance next but but singing you know God save Putin they would be probably awarded but they were they're asking Virgin Mary to drive put in the way and that's the crime especially in the church because Putin sees himself as the know again closets are who also needs this you know legitimization by the Orthodox George in August 2012 Gary tried to show his support by attending the band members court verdict results were perhaps predictable but a week later he was cleared of all charges and release I wouldn't expect you to pay tribute Putin for anything but I suppose it would be a case that almost any leader before Putin would have had you in jail continuously it's a I mean I will talk about Yeltsin leader before Putin I was thinking the whole time Gorbachev now Jesus I lived under conscious life under Gorbachev and and and and and yeah Yeltsin yes and so net naturally the life under Stalin was much worse but do we compare Putin to Stalin I mean let's see how do we start so this is the s this is very good this is it's it's it's it's it's a typical excuse of the Western leader saying no life today is not as bad as under Stalin or even under Brezhnev actually as for presidents years and today I think we already you know at a level where you know questions can be asked Russia today is is rapidly moving into the some sort of the quasi dictatorship I say quasi dictatorship because dictatorships always based on this mass repression but modern dictators they they are different so they just you know they they even allow some sort of elections the question is what they do where when their power is threatened and I have unfortunately I have no doubt when Putin you know feels that he's threatened he'll act like Qaddafi or Bashar al Assad not even a like Mubarak it would seem that you think the situation conditions in Russia are getting worse for various reasons that there's a weakness in the resistance and there's a strength in the governmental response and should we be as pessimistic as that or can you be optimistic I think Russian people are quite angry now you could see a lot of anger even in the small towns and countryside against the officials but this anger and this feeling of growing feeling of desperation is still controlled by the fear genetic fear of change I think Putin is doomed I think he will not survive to e to the end of his term his current excurrent term in 2018 but my greatest concern is that this demise the demise of the regime as in 1991 may lead to a dim attitude the collapse of the country when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 his artificially-created borders became porous they fragmented the result in a number of former republics with war many of these conflicts such as the one in Chechnya linger on to this day the differences up in 1991 there were still certain foundations to preserve the country Yeltsin was legitimate he was legitimately elected then they will recognize Boris most honorable recognized Armenia Azerbaijan Georgia but still there were some small enclaves that work that work in question every time you had a an 11 question there was a bloodshed now Russia unlike xov tuna does have the recognized waters so that's why you don't know where Chechnya ends and what will happen you know with with the North Caucasus always the Far East that is been quite openly challenged by by or claimed by by by Chinese so I'm I have a great concern about the future of Russia as a state because the regime lost any contact with the population and it still survives because of the enormous amount of money allocated through the high energy prices and of these off of its manipulating propaganda that incited the worst hatred between different groups of Russian society throughout his career Gary has made a point of taking on bigger stronger adversaries world champions chesses organizing federation supercomputer now at last he may have finally met his match unlike chess I've never considered this as part of winning or losing this is not a game I have to do it because I have to do it but it's more like you know sending a message to others look you know it's just I also take the risk and you know it's a duty of every conscious citizen to protect our civil liberties with the triumphant record you you possess when you look back what do you see as a mistake I made tons of mistakes in my life you know if I look backwards i'm sheree now I can point out a certain point at certain moments in my life saying I would do this different and this different but at the end of the day you know I I was followed the same algorithm trying to make the difference what is at the chessboard or in the surroundings of the chessboard or in my you know Warner life Gary thank you very much to the whole of this conversation we really appreciate two months after this interview Gary Kasparov announced that he will not be returning to Russia for reasons of personal safety

Channel: KasparovCom

Views: 75,073

Rating: 4.8351822 out of 5

Keywords: Kasparov, Chess, Politics, Frost, Russia, Democracy, Putin

Id: egAgvLgk848

Length: 48min 15sec (2895 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 10 2013

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[u/whatsTheRumpass]

Far reaching interview with the legendary chess master.