The Evans Family Discusses Faith & Loss

good evening everybody how are you tonight good to see you guys so glad that you were here it's a it's a interesting night for our family and for so many members of our church and wanted to just have a great conversation tonight with you with our with our extended family and and let our dad and Pastor sort of speak into this issue that has hit us personally but we thought would be a great opportunity to talk with our church about when we face unexpected loss tragedy difficulty in our lives what that looks like and how we reconcile that with the goodness of God the kindness of God so some of you may or may not be aware at this point that last night very suddenly very tragically we lost well one of me and Crystal's best friends and our cousin my father's niece her name is winter Pitts member of this church for a very long time in fact was on staff here as well I think they have a photograph of her that they're gonna put up and that's winter and her husband and her four girls very young family and so anyway she stopped breathing last night we were all at the hospital till the wee hours of the morning just consoling each other we've been doing that all day today so excuse our flip-flops and you know our gym clothes but it is what it is how about that we wanted to come to church tonight though because what a great opportunity to talk about our night last night in terms of my father and how he sort of has to take off pastor hat and put on dad uncle hurting hat and what that looks like when you're him but also then hear his perspective that will be again helpful for all of us when you are in a place of unexpected tragedy and loss and difficulty so we hope that this conversation will be a blessing to you dad we did want to start by just talking to you about last night maybe giving everyone a little bit of frame of reference on how the evening unfolded and what it felt like for you because normally when you're at the hospital to console someone it is someone that is a part of your church but not necessarily your family your people so talk to us about last night well it was about 7:30 then I got a call from Priscilla and she asked me had anyone called me and I said about what and she said winter has stopped breathing and she was being rushed to the hospital and so I was kind of startled hearing that we had just been with her and her husband Jonathan Pitts and before girls and so to hear that was a shocker and so I found out what hospital and I said okay I'll be right there then I picked up the phone and I called Jonathan Pitts not knowing whether he would answer or not he did answer and it was hard to understand his all of his words because of the tears and I do remember his phrase it doesn't look good because she was not breathing and so so I rushed out sevens came later but I rushed out and went to the hospital and I walked into the room and when I walked into the room I knew it was over from the medical standpoint because Jonathan was hovered over his wife and saying she's gone she's gone she's gone and feeling that sadness shock mixture of both heartache seeing a young man weep over his young wife and then the worst part of it for me was him going to tell his girls who were at the hospital to and to hear the wailing that came from four girls that this was just so unbelievable at the very same time something very encouraging in the midst of the heartache tears and pain Jonathan immediately went into where their mother was that she was with the Lord and she was with her Savior and as everybody was crying and some of the girls saying no this can't be this can't be he began singing a hymn he began singing a praise song and so we joined him with him as he saying to his girls and then it just unfolded from there more family came more people came the representative Darryl dumbest of the church King as we talked about the reality of the night that we couldn't believe so for me there was a ministerial and a personal that they collided I wanted to encourage Jonathan wanted to carriage the girls wanted to encourage myself but there was confusion with me how could this happen to her what appear to be a healthy 38 year old mother especially in light of new plans that they had new destinations that they were going new vision that they were sharing how could this happen and so it raised this kind of the question that you raised a good god and at the same time the tragedies of life so that was kind the moments and before we dive into sort of that theological conversation I know a lot of members of our congregation you know we kind of see you on the platform and you're preaching and you're teaching to us and you have to always be well you are in a very strong fatherly position in obviously our family but - you know you're shepherding us and people see you that way all the time and I know a lot of people really want to know how are you because excuse me I'm sorry how are you given the fact that a lot of people you know here at church realize that you know you lost your brother our uncle six months ago and now you've lost your other brother's daughter so your church would like to know how are you I guess I struggle between I wanna I insist as honestly as I can I struggle between wanting to minister to everybody and when a crisis hits and probably letting that overshadow my feeling about the crisis because though obviously there's some people hurt more than me a husband and four girls but I do hurt I hurt her when people come into my office and I want to quit or throw up but I know they come in for you know give up but I know they're coming because they want some hope they want some hope and so I hurt with them but I also got to be strong enough to try to give them hope so I guess my answer to that is I don't know how I am fully because I have to at least I think I have to try to find a way to give hope in a hurting situation and that kind of gets in the way I probably would have to back away from it a little bit to find out where I am which happened with my brother when my brother died six months ago there were times when I broke down but at the same time I had I'm the oldest son I gotta make sure my father's okay my sister's okay so it's that I do allow that to overshadow that most of the time you know I'm curious about it cuz I mean she said the church are not there but the kids wonder how you feel cuz you just keep going somehow you're able to just keep going I guess because I do believe what I preach [Applause] [Music] I do believe she's in a better place I do believe in the sovereignty of God I do believe in the goodness of God I do believe and because I believe you know I do I do keep going maybe some of its personality or some of its drive but at the same time there is a belief that's intact that I'm wrapped around because I don't know where I would be with all the situations in life if I didn't have an anchor well I'm gonna let you know John John asked you these you know and crystal and Anthony myself asked you some of the questions that'll be a little broader in terms of the theological implications of this and how we have that hope but you know before the night is over it I want us to pray for you because we you know we we worry about you dad as your kids and your church just because you are carrying a whole lot you're carrying your own stuff but you're carrying all our stuff too and we want you to know we're grateful and we want you to know that the hope that you have and the reason why you keep going that anchor that last night as we last night as we were around winter's body singing victory in Jesus and your grandkids were around singing that I thought what a great legacy that because you have had that anchor that now you have grandchildren and great-grandchildren that in the face of sudden tragedy are able to say how great is our God and we're grateful for that because you have a church of people that have faced tragedies of their own and they too have an anchor because you have had such a solid anchor example for us riveted [Music] [Applause] so before the night is over going to pray for you but we do want to ask some questions that will help us wrap our minds around your thoughts on the goodness of God on evil on tragedy on why things like this are allowed that don't make sense and those sorts of things John John I guess I want to know I mean cuz we it's not just about us many of you have experienced the same thing and you know with winter specifically in our situation you know leaving behind you know Jonathan Pitts and four little girls how do they how to do then we continued a message of God is good because all they see is tragedy and what God has taken it's viewed as selfish you know all of those different things so and a lot of people either walk away from the faith or remain atheists because of the idea of us preaching a good God all the time and you know how do you say that to the kid in Africa who would you know an American experience is different but you know we stand up here and we preach all things work together for good for those who love God in a call to this person purposes but you got these kids over in different countries who were born with AIDS from the day they were born and they died that way and we over here Tom how good god is so explain the goodness of God as it relates to people's real experiences first of all if you get rid of God you still got your problem so getting rid of God hadn't changed your scenario there's still sickness and evil okay I think about Jesus's question the Peter he said when they had questions will you leave me compete his answer was well where we gonna go you have the words of eternal life so the first thing is that you haven't solved your problem by running from God the second thing is when you look you know there's a song that people with saying you know when I compare my good days with my bad days you know the goodness of God is all around us it only comes into question when bad things happen you take away the bad things we were celebrating with Jonathan Pitts in his family the goodness of God as a family we were celebrating that and then this happens so now the questions come but what about all those other days when there were no questions when we were laughing and celebrating so you have to put the the badness of a situation against the history of God's goodness so that's the second thing a third thing is what you kind of got into is you know why do we have this why do we have all of this pain and how can a good God allow evil that's the question of what we call in theology theodicy the the goodness of God and the reality well God has given men chase and with choice but the potential for evil exists because you can choose the gangs good and if you choose the gangs good then the only up the opposite of that would be non good or evil so freedom allows evil to exist but men make evil happen freedom allows for it because now you have a choice but men actualize it and when we actualize our evil it affects other people when a murderer actualize this is evil somebody else dies but to me that's why I need a sovereign God who can at least choose to intervene in the reality of evil in the world that I live in and we live in if I'm just left to man then I'm subject to anything anybody wants to do anytime they want to do it but if I at least have a sovereign God and that evil has to flow through his fingers before it gets to me then I have the hope that God is in control even when things are not out of control but my biggest comfort is where else am I supposed to go cuz if you if you take me away from that I have no hope I am I'm I'm at the whim of everything else that has as I have absolutely nothing no control over so I'd rather cast my lot with a God that I don't understand then with men [Applause] um I think this touches on a question that's a little further down on that sheet but how can I then have boldness in my faith if history circumstances the evil that's in the world the evil that comes through God's finger if circumstances have been hard how can I then have old faith particularly when you've prayed for God to help and he doesn't because you can know that to be true and you can even rehearse that but but how do you then walk with boldness if I if I have one of my kids come and I tell them to sit in a chair and if when they go to sit I pull the chair out from under them the next time I tell them to sit in the chair they're going to hesitate so I know God is not pulling out the chair but the experience is a teacher too so how can I approach my faith with boldness when experience says well the last time I hoped God would help and he didn't or the last time I prayed for God to help and he didn't how do you then conjure up a bold confident faith even in your head if you got it how do you walk that out when experienced it says oh well because I know I hear it all the time people will say well I just don't think he hears me he doesn't listen he doesn't answer my requests how would you answer that a couple of weeks ago a friend of mine died he was on the table he was pronounced dead as the family was sorrowing he twitched and they make a long story short he's now walking around after having been pronounced dead so you can imagine the celebration because that was like a Lazarus moment when I walked in winters from last night and Jonathan had gone I sat down in the chair and I said do it again Lord do it again the reason he didn't but the reason I could ask him that is because of what happened here so having a history with God doing things in your yesterday when you face your today or tomorrow whether or not he does it or not at least gives you confident that the possibility exists and if the possibility exists then I have to trust in the fact but whether he does it or not that he knows what he's doing cuz I know what he can do I know what he has done so I know he might do it here he might not I gotta leave that in his sovereign hand so what we've got to remind ourselves of all the times when he has come through so that we can walk in faith when he does not come through because we know he can we know he's good we know he loves us but we also know he's sovereign and you got to put all those together at the same time and I will agree the Bible is full of why questions you know the whole book of Job is why do the righteous suffer you know how do I make sense of this so here's the statement I would give to the girls when I sit down and talk with them and to Jonathan I can't answer many people don't know why why why why I can't answer all that because God leaves Deuteronomy 29:29 says he has secret things that he does not answer why - okay that's his prerogative but I will tell them this your mother loved the Lord the Lord loved your mother so in some unknown way he determined it was her time I don't like it you don't like it let this cup pass from me but you have to believe that God knows what he's doing when he's not doing what we want him to do or when we wanted me to do it that's all I can do but I've got enough history to know what he can do and because I have history of knowing what he can do I know what he might do whether or not he does it I think that's the frustrating thing for me is that he won't let me into that space you know he when it comes to death and timing and all of those things he owns it and he won't let me into that space so as it relates to what we're experiencing I am NOT going to be allowed to wrap my mind about around it I just have to be stuck like this and of course Pitts and the daughters and all that kind of stuff and so like you said I mean I'm encouraged but you saying that because you're you're counseling me that you just have to be okay with trusting and believing in faith because some things God owns and he's not letting you is you just can't come in there and that's what's frustrating about death is that we're not allowed and we don't get to see you know all the whys it's just pure trust in faith which leads strong people to stay and some people who you know either are on the fringe or don't believe to leave because of that question of the why and him just owning stuff and you just have to just be there just sit there I tell my kids that sometimes yeah so I kind of understand it you know need to know just sit there well one thing that gives me hope is the fact that you know I'm a Christian I know winter saved I know she loved the Lord so I know where she is Jonathan Pitts came out talk to his daughters and said you know she's with Jesus now Jesus is got her that's better than anything that we can ask for so before we just move on to the next thing I would just wondering if you you you answered the question but could you just speak to particularly mothers who might be in the room who either through abortion or miscarriage or you know a very young just child death very young you know and that thing can torture you you know as a woman could you just speak to women who may be here and and that is their main concern and issue maybe get some freedom from that tonight well we know that abortion is a big big issue today the Bible is clear that there is life in the womb so to attack the life that's in the womb is to attack what the Bible calls the image of God as a whole song one Psalm 139 it talks about the life that was in the womb and how God was stitching the life the person talks about John the Baptist mother Elizabeth when she ran into Mary who was pregnant with Jesus and how the baby leaped in the mother's womb the baby leaped not an it the baby leaped in the mother's womb being in close contact with Jesus so the Bible is clear that there's life so when you abort you're taking a life because when you miscarriage that's not taking it but a licensed life is lost since it is life then that that child immediately goes into eternity because it is life even though you don't know the child yet if you ever bought it well that's a sin you've taken a life but it's not an unpardonable sin and you go to God Jesus even says you know if you wish somebody was dead you accused of murder so so you can you can kill in a lot of different ways it was wrong it was sinful and what I told a couple not too long ago came to me after years still grieving over this abortion that they agreed to have that he paid for we dealt with it spiritually repented of the sin and I said here's what I want you to do I want you to go in the sanctuary I want you to sit down and I want you to give your baby a name I said you don't know whether it's male or female so give it a name that could be male or female it could go either way give your baby a name thank the Lord for receiving your child into his hands and forgiving you for 410 for forgiving you and now move forward and he told the woman and go and sin no more so you don't have to be in bondage to that sin once you have to address that sin and once you move forward now in [Music] this just goes back to the beginning a little bit because I I didn't necessarily know the way my dad grieves his grief process is just to keep working I didn't realize that mine is not that I didn't get that part of my siblings my dad nothing I am if I was not in this family I would have been gone a long time ago because this kind of stuff throws me way off so when you're a person built like me where you lose your cousin you go hold her daughter's and you're full of rage because you cannot believe that this is what is happening and it wasn't people like you were explaining evil earlier I nothing evil happened to her like her heart stopped like I feel like God allowed that to happen when you're somebody who processes like me it doesn't go to hope real quick you're mad how do you navigate that when you're not I don't go don't go too quick I'm just mad and and you know what I just wonder because Anthony's willing to be honest like that I just wonder how many people are in the room and you're in a posture of anger right now about something that's been allowed in your life to happen dad look at all the hands that are there going up so how do we wrestle with that two times already today I've had somebody in my office saying it's not fair and one said and I'm angry I'm angry because it's not fair first of all God allows anger God allows anger you can feel guilty because you're angry at God okay but God allows anger he allows frustration the three chapters of the book of Abeka is a frustrated angry man how could you allow this guy so first of all be angry respectfully but it's okay to feel the pain of God disappointing you okay cuz he did I mean you disappoint it with God and God already knows how you feel so hiding it doesn't make it disappear so the first thing I would say is the first thing you do with that anger is you take it to him and you say I don't understand what you did I don't understand why you did it it's not fair I am hurting she loved you good look at these four girls I don't get it that's one secondly you've got to have the right theology of death because if you don't death is only a negative when in God's economy it's not only a negative in God's economy he makes an astounding statement he says blessed is the Lord with the death of his Saints that is he is excited to have winter with him now we're not because of what is lost but he's excited to have winter with him what if you don't see that then all you see is the bad part of death and it is bad for us okay the other thing is that combined with that it's not all what he did Paul says in Philippians 1:23 to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord immediately she goes there so the body is writing but the soul is very much alive so you do have to have an eternal perspective because if all you see is time so here's the lesson for us you know we working on the funeral and Ecclesiastes 7 says it is better to go to a funeral than a party because only at a funeral do you take life seriously says that a party with all the good times you don't think about all this at a funeral you have to think about it we have to think about it we have to talk about it because it's in front of us and he says it's better to do that then go to a party why because then you put life in its proper perspective 70 years Psalm 90 says you you know by reason of strength you may make it to 80 years then it's over so what does he say teach us to number our days make every day counts because this is short this is sure I'll be 69 in a couple of months down on the way all the time with this is so short so don't look at this is like this this is this is an introduction to life this is not life ok you get some good times in the introduction you get some bad times in the introduction but it's only an introduction and if we keep that in mind while expressing our honesty to God we keep the right perspective in our pain and in our tears you know don't ya I think I may be sometimes watching you it's kind of like I don't have enough faith because it's basically your view your theology your belief your understanding your knowledge and your wisdom just knowing that and then you're able to continue to function at a high level should people who maybe have different personalities see it not that I don't have faith I just have a different personality well I think that I think it's it may be a combination of the two people with just like people have different emotions they react differently people different personalities so they're gonna respond at different levels to different things at what Anthony was saying how he doesn't do it like me because he's different he's more sensitive I'm more driven so he's gonna do it differently so that that's one but remember what faith is because a lot of times we're defining faith as a feeling okay but that's not that's a feeling and you can have the you can have faith without the accompanying feeling your faith is demonstrated in your movement so guess what what Jonathan Pitts was crying while he was praising so he had a faith of praise even though a disappointment of circumstances so most people have more faith than they think they have but the emotions cloud whether it's faith or not so don't mix the two because sometimes the two are together and sometimes they're not because sometimes you have to trust God in the dark it's pitched back and you have to do like Paul and Silas and you got to praise Him in midnight when you in Chains you know so one way to exercise faith is to praise in the WP I'm glad you're my dad [Applause] [Music] [Applause] you're pretty good dad so dad there is a question on here and then what time are we supposed to be done dad this is the last question and then we're gonna pray for a few things tonight but just really quickly crystal kind of touched on it a little bit but it's on the page so I want to get to it just talk about why the Word of Faith Movement is a little bit dangerous just because again trying to reconcile and balance believing God for the miraculous but also trusting his sovereignty so just how do we balance that how would you encourage those who you're shepherding to balance a radical outrageous faith in God to do big things but also you know mellowing that out with the reality of God's sovereignty well unfortunately many not all but many of the Word of Faith Movement use the concept of faith to manipulate God okay God cannot be manipulated he does call us to believe he told us to grow in our faith so we ought to exercise faith and I'll put it this way in a sovereign God so you're not exercising faith in a God you control your exercise in a faith in a God who makes the final decision but in exercising faith by our action what we do is we invite God to do what he has willed to do because everything God wills to do he doesn't automatically do he doesn't when he sees our faith so in God's sovereignty something he does because he decides I'm just gonna do it other things he does when we trust him to do it you say but I don't know which is which which is why you express faith in prayer in everything so you don't miss out on the ones he plans to do [Applause] well I hope you all been encouraged by our personal counseling session we're gonna pray for dad like I said a moment ago but we're gonna pray for you if there's anybody in the room we're gonna pray for you first if you're in the midst of a personal tragedy of your own whether it's death loss or it's just a tragic accident or something that's really taking your faith for a ride and honestly you just see the stability you need the Lord to offer you an extra measure of comfort during this time and and just need covering in your life right now because of something like this would you just stand if that's you just gonna ask dad to pray over you tonight just build up your faith and encourage you and him give you a peace that passes understanding we want you to know we stand with you as a church stand up if that's you okay and dad's gonna pray for you and then after that we're gonna all stand up if that's okay and surround dad in prayer dear Lord for those who are standing because they're hurting because they're disappointed because they're angry because they're afraid be the lifter of their head you said a bruised Reed you would not break they already bruised that's why they're standing they don't want to break throughout the Bible you say that you do things suddenly you come out of nowhere you just demonstrate your greater glory we have chosen to trust you even though to a large degree we do not understand you we come on behalf of our brothers and sisters in the name of the risen Lord Jesus Christ and we ask that you will intervene in every situation as though it was the only situation that you will treat them special individually in whatever the category of need is and may you demonstrate your greater glory in their lives and give them a fresh reason to praise you in Jesus name and then y'all we're just gonna let dad just stand here we're gonna pray for you dad if anybody wants to come forward or just be near don't pray for our pastor tonight our Father all of our father tonight we're gonna pray for him mom's coming up give her a second god we are grateful for your presence we are grateful for you we are grateful for your faithfulness in our lives and now we come to you asking that you would pour out your spirit on our dad and our mom continue to strengthen them as they carry in some cases weights that we don't understand and we never will I pray God that you would give them a supernatural peace right now I know that a loss is a loss no matter how you how you deal with it or how it shows it's a loss and God I pray that you will allow my father and my mother the opportunity to UM to grieve in an appropriate way so they're not holding things inside as they continue to work hard I pray God that you would allow this to clear out of them loss that we've experienced as a family and as a church and I pray God that the years that we will that we have coming will be great and beyond what we could ever imagine I pray God that you would put in them again a focus of what exactly you would want them to be doing right now so there's not extra energy going in a bunch of different directions we are grateful God I pray though that as a church that we would understand the role that they have been entrusted with and that we will be grateful that we get to sit under this kind of teaching in this support every week of our lives twice a week I pray God that we will never take that for granted I pray God that you will reward them in their personal relationship with each other that these years will be amazing years of connection with them we again are grateful for you and we know that you are a God you are faithful God who has intention even when our hearts are broken and please show us that intention and again be a pour out a blessing on our bond my my mom and dad's laughs on our mom and dad's lives and our pastor in our past and our pastor's wife we are grateful for you tonight and what you are going to do purify all of our hearts in this room and take us out of here with a peace and peace in our hearts with all these different situations that are represented here we again are grateful for you God and your name we pray amen thank you everybody thank you thank you [Applause] you

Channel: Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship

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Length: 43min 11sec (2591 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 27 2018