The Curious Case of Shane Bilzerian

hi kids do you like violence want to see mystic nine inch nails to reach one of my eyelids uh-huh want to copy me and do exactly like i did try seeing it get [ __ ] up worse than my life is [Music] okay i'm wearing that denim i love denim i was listening to okay we're just gonna start the show [Music] welcome to sad boys a podcast about feelings and other things also i'm jarvis and i'm jordan and i'm eminem i'm marshall ann mathers attorney at law i don't know if now is the most enviable time to be eminem you might want to do that canceled or something did he do something bad no he's not cancelled he's just modern eminem i know you know it's funny like i i think i can empathize with modern ima like the fact that yeah you've fallen from grace i i just like never give up on anybody um is kind of my thing i i just like once i become a fan i can never not become a stan i can i cannot i can never understand you know what i mean you're like boys to men you're a fan to i'm a fan i'm a fantano man yeah very good internet's busy busy sample internet's busiest boy um what if we just took it what if we just said that every episode you know it's not a bad idea um he could just take his huge platform and murder us both that'd be neat uh today we are uh going topic-less because we just want to chat and be boys um she's like going we're going topless i love that um we might do the show more like this in the future because i think it's more fun and i also want to have cool titles for the show that are just like based on jokes that we talk about and it's a classic and we'll always we'll always talk about particular topics via uh questions that we take from our community and stuff like that so um and we will have topic episodes if there's something on our mind but it's just more about like how we frame the show we're experimenting um but maybe we'll take questions from you and then imagine that yeah imagine that you were pointing um we are recording this on twitch.tv boys pod as we uh are now doing it's kind of the thing i think it's here to stay and if you don't like it and maybe a couple laps a couple laps a week streaming we're thinking about it yeah we're planning on planning yeah we don't know when ohio yeah the plan is two a week we'll see uh we've got a few in the can right now we're getting those edits done um and we're making those the bad ones we're making some plans for uh some youtube situations um we're we're honestly we're becoming men we're becoming the sad men we were both not to be confused with matt let me know we're not mad men we're sad men i would not i don't think either of us would would thrive in the old school match um well partially because i'm gonna turn off my air because not only is it creating feedback sound it's uh making me cool just make the same jokes did you see the email that i got um i tweeted someone sent me an email saying that i had a really impressive linkedin profile they're hiring for engineering careers at unnamed very large uh software company that has had an issue with uh swaying elections let's say um uh reached out with a cult who knows who can be sure reached out with a a sourcing like recruiting email that says ask me if i was enjoying my job as video boy at the online and if i was considering other careers i was actually looking at your linkedin maybe 15 20 minutes ago because i was trying to see if i could find some cool facts about you on wikipedia and like cross-reference them but they're all bang on you are six foot nine trill because you thought that was a cool number you celebrate every 4 20 every single day but you don't do it with weed and we're not allowed to say you know what i mean i blaze again were you ever close to being uh do you ever have like a stoner moment do you ever get close no no no it's just not my it's it's it's weird i my brain just doesn't do it do the snowner thing it like just doesn't even if i smoke weed it doesn't like happen for me in the way it's like i just laugh at more stuff but it's also not fun for me no not particularly yeah and that's weird i thought that's i believe it's an adhd i think it could be an adhd thing yeah as is the boost in paranoia uh i you know i never really had a paranoia boost though i did get the last time i got really high was uh when donald trump got elected um celebration it was just like [ __ ] i was like let me finally representation from presentation matters everybody um and yeah it was not a fun time so maybe there's just an association there um no i'm with you i genuinely i was a very optimistic smoker for i don't know like all of 2017 i smoked maybe five days a week every day when i got home and i had fun twice yeah i i do because of a year i for a while was doing like cbd gummies before bed to like help me sleep and i'm not anti that uh it felt i think it was having an effect the problem is it's like really hard to to pick these things up like it's like is it doing something is this placebo whatever but i we can do a deep dive on that when we get pete holmes right well the problem with me and why i don't have an addictive personality to any particular substance is because i was actually gifted a bunch of cbd gummies from a friend of mine who worked at a company who does that thing he sent me a bunch of bottles of these gummies and as soon as i ran out of them i never sought getting them again you know what i mean so like while i had them i was like using them routinely and then when i ran out there was something in me that was like i don't need this any like i'd know it was less i don't need this and more i had no interest in going and getting it uh similar to like alcohol like if alcohol is in my apartment i'll consume it and when i run out i like can forget that alcohol exists for like months at a time you know what i mean yeah are you in the same boat as me as that if alcohol is in my house i will burn through it slowly but every day i because it's ju i'm just curious i do i do get through it for sure you blaze it can't say what i believe sorry i'd like some speculation over email yeah yeah it's like what is he what does he believe right dm to john on the subreddit like uh we don't have a subreddit but we have a discord for this uh they make that specifically for this theory and unsolved now somebody actually will so a couple things i want to get to before the pod we were talking about um the life and career of eminem um and also hip-hop and you were talking about some some rap beeps we were talking about uh you know the m m versus uh machine gun kelly beef and then you were talking about a beef between some rap youtubers or something yeah i was talking about tom mcdonald who is rap artist predominantly known yes tom mcdonald had a farm says slightly racial related stuff e-i-e-i-e oh okay e-i-e-i-o [Laughter] he would create he creates a lot of tracks he got like a big hit out of a track he made called white boys oh that was all about his struggles as a white boy that's literally that's tough actually it's it's which you know finally i know it's like just get your voice out there people it's like it makes me want to smoke weed to celebrate again smoke weed every day if you want or don't it's up to you all right it's funny that people don't listen to the radio edit well that's included oh smoke weed every day if it helps improve your where are we centered out i don't know why they did that it seems like that would have been a helpful message ah nancy reagan i like that as a switch like kelly clarkson from 40 year old version there is a number of tracks that he's made based on saying just sort of post-trump era this will spice up the libs absolutely epically owning the libs through tracks about like uh soy boys etc and then mac lethal came out the woodwork and put out something about i'm so sick of artists doing x y basically alluding to the same thing seemed as though he was subtweeting him supposedly he actually had no idea who he was which i don't think is impossible it's not like uh tom mcdonald ea was the only person doing it they got into kind of a back and forth beef but it was like such a dad beef that it really didn't have a lot of flame to it then tom mcdonald released genuinely a pretty well produced uh diss track especially in the video the video is very high quality then mac replied to it with like a kind of mixed and definitely not as current like the instrumental in the presentation once it wasn't strong but a he does it in one take live and his flow is much stronger and the things he brings up when it's good things are the best things by far he he sniped some really specific stuff he like found out that he's been lying about his height for a long time he's like almost a foot uh no magnifier is very comfortably a tiny midwest ad but tom mcdonald has been lying saying he was like six three on his album cover and stuff and he's actually like five that's funny which he's actually three he just got it in reverse how embarrassing yeah three six the sex number uh wait isn't it um three six is takashi takashi three six son three six nine damn so takashi uh three hundred and sixty i've been watching okay so we've been talking about hip hop a fair amount um and i have to say i've become obsessed with the new youtube channel to the extent to the extent where i have gone as far as to reach out to the creator of the channel to try and befriend him and i also think it would be cool to get him on the show if we can at some point because that's how much of a stan i am at this point uh but it's this guy traplor ross um he's just like uh i think he's just like a dude he's like my age uh a british boy i think he lives in london um he's like got an encyclopedic knowledge of hip-hop culture and stuff clearly a lifelong fan um to the point where he's like making all these like r he'll like make jokes about like uh neighborhoods in l.a and stuff where it's like clearly he's absorbed the culture to the point of he could make references to [ __ ] where i'm like you didn't grow up with like you didn't like you had to seek this information out um yeah this is like semi-pro yeah and uh and and he's his his content it's all of his videos are better than mine but that's easy um no that's not and it's all he my videos is better than yours that's true yeah he puts out so much content that's so high quality that i'm just impressed and it's a he's very funny also he's funnier than i am and just like continues like it's uh basically i just want to be everything that he is um and he made he's made like i don't know three hours of video essay on six nine to the point where yeah just something i actually watched about half of that i was very okay it's a good he's a good creator right like his videos are very well put together um he know like the six nine like i i just like from the beginnings of this guy's career to the trial i'm like finding myself empathizing with this man and being like huh yeah interesting like what a complex character study um maybe i should take over the blue and that's kind of fun like i think it's cool that you know we have these like you know six nine is like a snitch or whatever like that's the narrative but then it's cool to kind of get to the like kind of see all this stuff put together and and have a greater appreciation understanding for like i don't know an important figure in in hip-hop at the moment it's wait do you want to shout out the truth so shout outs again to trap lord ross uh just search up trap lord ross on youtube um it's a great he's a great creator great i have by the bike can you can you maybe we can just do this from the vlog but can you give me record permissions because i uh my camera's being real it's acted up in some really weird ways and i don't necessarily uh yes i can um do it you're scared um let's find out how i do that can i maybe right-click you maybe go to more maybe allow record look at that yeah possibly we'll need to use the voda it's just my camera is um 250 years old and uh 240p for the most part so it might not be bringing the heat we need yeah and also while we're doing a little thing there's some there's some i don't know trolls in the chat don't don't feed the trolls and if anybody's like trolling or spamming or whatever it doesn't even matter what you're talking about or saying you're gonna get timed out or you might get banned so don't even do the attention seeking [ __ ] because it's gonna not be worth your while let me just say that it's also like dude there's so much fun stuff you could be doing true you played games true or like watched a a stream i mean there's all these streams on here man you could be having a whale of a time lewis right now is what playing the sims 4. that's being recommended pretty cool the internet is what i have to say um oh you like the internet name three websites well easy www mm-hmm [ __ ] yeah that's uh dot [ __ ] uh website dot com so that's one that is true uh doesn't that go to like see now it might i it's incredible like how many domains like that where it goes to website.com which is like a uh uh website builder oh that's actually sick good job they probably paid like a million dollars for that domain well they bought it from cnet or however yeah i remember it being like a pretty significant oh no wait is it www.internet.com actually i don't know nope that's internet.com i love it's an internet very mediocre i'm in a bad cycle we talked about it for sure i am trying to get out of a place in my life where everything i talk about is just mental health but dude bad it's uh what i need is a podcast to express it uh yeah it's not been i don't know it's been a pretty bad cycle pretty unhealthy back and forth for a while now big part of it is that my sleep schedule which i had under control for a number of years despite generally being bad i have like a great medication that really helps me with it i've just completely [ __ ] over by by staying up basically so far every day just so i can talk to people like it's the only time my friends are awake and not i feel that so it's it's it's become like a dangerous cycle where i'm sacrificing one of two needs yeah like maslow's hierarchy is there man i do need to spend time with people and i i do need to not get up at like 3 p.m every day but today especially i'm past it now for whatever reason i think that's just how it works the your brain [ __ ] like a shotgun fills up your dopamine and serotonin over time but i today was the worst day in a really long time i was literally just like screaming into a pillow i did i punched a file cabinet really hard careful okay but not too not to flex but um i did before i hit it and my hand hurts uh but yeah i thought about whether or not i wanted to talk about it on the show and i for whatever reason once we start doing the show it it does the exact opposite of what i thought it would do which is like not it doesn't climb me up it makes me go like oh let's get silly that's really yeah truly open up it's good i think that's important i i think it's like cool that the show like feeds us uh we've talked about that before and also i share the same sentiment like i i want the show to be a place where we can talk about our feelings whenever we want but also i want to get goofy because i like to have fun and i like to just do you know random [ __ ] on the internet and uh it doesn't always have to be that serious but i which i don't think is like a huge deviation from the way you communicate that's what's weird right i don't think yeah camera's camera is not working there is a i also am a little wonky i'm a little wonky in the uh in the twitch i think oh yeah you are you are oh you know why you know why it's because i i resized the window let me fix that let's see if i fixed it i thought you i thought you liked the internet i did fix it cool uh someone said jarvis read the comments what's happening is that wise i don't know uh what's happening what's happening i don't think anything particularly significant uh i mean shout out to the comments we'll we'll chat to you after the main episode and we'll chat to you before yeah yeah everybody cause we don't want to we don't want to not get to chat to you yeah yeah we'll we'll be chatting just be behave everything's everything's good everything's fine be nice be you know what actually if if you don't want to be nice be really nice all right i am uh i'm not looking at the chat right now i'm just looking at your beautiful face jordan um but yeah i was gonna say like it's not a deviation from the way we generally communicate because we don't really switch it on for the show usually i've called you quite a few times recently just in need of like desperate need of like oh [ __ ] i don't know what yeah i am crashing so hard and we joke every time you're like i don't know i don't call you up and it's just it's just stinky stuff like there's always a bit of a meme you're always crashing um by people the hbo show by pete holmes canceled and it's time just like him i am um um nor is his subscription to cbd or hbo max he's still hbo gummies he's uh he's still subscribed um i but yeah i i want the show to be a reflection of that like i think that what i was going to say to you is that like these things come in cycles and it's okay if like right now you're going through a thing because uh you know this too shall pass type [ __ ] you know well well like i think that i always want to support you where you're at meet you where you're at um and know that you know what you need to do and you're gonna move past that in in in your due time and if you need help from me in any way other than like the support i'm already giving then you know that i'm always game to to help out um yeah and uh what that truly after that from playing goes to tsushima it's not that interesting jarvis how are you what's your week been like week weeks has been good week has been good um you know i often judge my weeks by how productive i was which is a toxic behavior but um but i think what i want to judge my week by is like how genuinely excited i am about the show um been doing a lot we've uh jordan like kicked off some new like art and branding for us and then i've been running with that and playing around with it and putting it on our different socials uh and so that's been cool it's like um we've also got a new instagram page instagram.comboyspod um i'm uh i'm trying to get i'm trying to get the plug on all the social media websites to hook us up with uh with slash sad boys with a z we'll see if we can get that if not no big deal but like we're tr we're basically like uh we had jordan and i had some meetings this week um we're making moves with the pod we're really excited to like share all of that stuff with you all um and yeah it's like it's a brand new it's a brand new frontier and i'm pretty excited about it because it kind of makes me feel like um when i was early on with youtube and like really hungry to figure out like how to how to get everything get everything poppin and um and i've also been really excited with youtube stuff again recently like um i i mean i'm currently i i wrote this like giant script about uh instagram the king of instagram dan bilzerian this like rich guy who um his entire brand is that he's rich and he thinks he's hugh hefner and he always has like models in bikinis surrounding him at every and it's all legitimate and reliable yeah it's all legit all above board um it came out that his like company that does uh marijuana question mark but also everything else they sell literally everything you could possibly sell um they lost 50 million dollars in one year and um and it turns out like a real [ __ ] real goal it came out in this lawsuit that the um the company paid for like all of this dude's personal expenses and that's like contributing to the loss and uh it kind of feels like this man's business and kind of mask is slipping when it comes to this like persona and so it's uh it's interesting um the dude is a straight-up maniac like he he the worst thing he did was like during the 2017 las vegas shooting um he was like there and had his friend filming him from behind running around like it's [ __ ] gears of war and like a third-person perspective and then asking he like asked a cop for a gun and there's this clip that i could not put in my video because i i i wanted the video to say pretty light-hearted um there there's a there's a clip where he's like asking an officer for a gun and the officer is like i don't know who you are and he's like i'm in he's like give me a gun i'm like a superhero did i have you seen my instagram um have you been on mail soul on instagram um i'm actually pretty prevalent i've seen a ins a motivational meme with my face on it do you only look at the ones with jared leto's choker or some [ __ ] and so the um and then he's like i'm a cop and he's like i i don't know you it like doesn't matter and then and then he was like he's like here's my creds and he's like it i don't who are you there's an active shooter situation happening i am trying to like do my job and you're distracting me that's basically the vibe he's giving off and he's also where his creds look i have would a cop not have this many phones great question so his creds which he legitimately like showed to a real police officer and asking for his weapon is uh our credentials a really high kd on cloud he bought police credentials from this like reserve police force in new mexico for 400 the uh the actual police force that he has credentials from does not have any um police in it it's like a reserve police force and so it's like kind of just like like like a volunteer like it seems like the guy the police chief in this town is like sketchy and he'll like give credentials to celebrities and people for like 400 bucks and so this man is like not really a police officer and he's like trying to pass off his like weird ass new mexico credentials as like why this officer should give him a gun because the dude has a hero complex like i've never seen like it's like who else would film himself trying to be look look like a hero in in las vega and also who else would present himself as like jacked hugh hefner in the modern age and not see that that's like comedy it's crazy because uh i it's so lame that's the thing like it's so easy to like critique him for being like overly bravado or losing his money and not like all the very legitimate stuff that we've talked about we're talking about but like the third factor is just like dude like like not cool not cool to me he's also got the um his style he like likes to pretend that he doesn't give a [ __ ] about anything because that's that like bro like bro like don't even give a [ __ ] but he clearly gives a giant [ __ ] uh what oh his instagram but dude the hero complex thing i like don't know if i can show this video in my video but his instagram story from the las vegas shooting starts off with him like saying some really like crazy [ __ ] about like the carnage that he just saw like because someone was shot near him and it's like this is very insensitive first of all and then like two hours he's like we're gonna try and find a gun and then he's like like doing the thing and then two hours go by of which like we've seen what fills in that time from this other third person video and then the last thing you post in his story is like all right i'm gonna head home looks like there's nothing more we can do and it's like no [ __ ] man you're just like a random dude but the quotes the quotes from this man he's like i just wanted to get in there and like kill the guy or whatever it's like he's like got this weird obsession with like justice and like i wanted to be the one to like he has a quote where he um said that his his biggest fear is that someone would break into his home and he wouldn't know which gun to shoot them with it's like a joke it's like it's like oh whoa it's like toxic masculinity embodied it's again it's so dumb right because it's just the dude that has a knife thing like the guy with a knife at the party or a guy that like does muay thai and like at the first provocation will like [ __ ] throw up his dukes and just start moving around it's like hey girls did you see um did anybody see this thing that i've been investing actually was like paying off and was actually super sick it's like i don't actually don't even know what gun to shoot him with uh i actually have like a lot of training experience with the us army not so much the army but like my dad's friend that saw the army once yeah just like lazy his interviews like he was on larry king which is pretty absurd but there's this other interview where people are just recently uh a couple years later well recently what's funny is that cnbc put out this uh house tour of the 65 million dollar mansion and they're like damn bulgarian instagram heartthrob hugh hefner modern whatever um has owns this 65 million dollar home or whatever and then you it comes out that actually no his company rents it for 200 000 a month uh he does not own it and when he left his neighbors celebrated um yeah and then um and he did leave uh because like it's corona times and then his the president of his company was like hey um maybe we don't need a 200 000 super mansion during a pandemic and his response was that he needs it because he wants to host pool parties in the summer so yeah oh [ __ ] wait did they have a did they have a response to that because that actually i mean yeah the response was uh he did leave the place so okay right cowardice was the way to go but yeah in one of his interviews everyone like softballs and questions like they've got a hard-on for like this like he's living life his episode of joe rogan is absolutely insane well you're [ __ ] surprised right this this this dude is a living kettlebell shaped like a yeah an ape like that's it's literally joe rogan's face the j rogan doesn't let him get off with like the and i don't talk about this in the video um because i wanted to limit the joe rogan clips but the so before the joy rogan thing i wanted to say that like all the interviews are like tossing him up these softballs because they're clearly like enamored with his persona and they're like is it true that you had sex nine times in one day and it's like who gives a [ __ ] like is this the best i know right and then he's like i was in a windmill four times yeah and he was like uh and he tells his like face lights up and he's like you know i didn't even want to have sex the ninth time but when a hot girl wants to sleep with you you don't say no and i'm like maybe you do say no this is some this is some middle school [ __ ] this is some early high school [ __ ] i actually wouldn't even know which movie to use on them i actually have my biggest fear actually is i'm surrounded by a bunch of women and they don't know who to have sex with yeah i'm actually my only issue the doctors said that i'm actually my my heart beats too fast because i'm actually too epic so i'm actually the most epic win bacon so the um the the big story is like oh also his uh so joe rogan to his credit doesn't let him get off with like non-answers to questions um so he will like repeatedly ask him like wait so how do you have your money again and he's like poker because he earned 50 million dollars playing poker in one year which is more than any professional poker player has won in their lifetime career no one's ever won that much money playing poker but he did do it he must be really good he's not the poker community has like analyzed his stuff and gone he's actually not good at the game and then he's like no but i'm just playing with these like high rollers or whatever and it's like well how did you get there and then it comes out that uh well not it comes out but it's like he's the son of this um corporate takeover specialist um who who and like sell them for parts and um he was like the sec sued him for like missed dealings or something uh to the tune of like 62 million dollars and he like owed them this money and only ever paid like three million bucks of it and so then there's this question of like where's the money and everyone thinks he's like sort of created like an onion of trusts in different shell companies to like hide the money away and uh then he like left the us so now he lives in like saint kitts or whatever and he renounced u.s citizenship meanwhile his son like has 50 million dollars out of nowhere and it's like yeah poker i guess and every and so like dan biljarian keeps being that is what a kid would think of like oh i don't know [ __ ] it i actually find i found a gold mine it's like i yeah i know i actually just found a rare a rare doubloon under the ground and that's me and my friends who hit by the goonies we found a pirate's treasure chest and so it's pretty it's pretty absurd um yeah jay rogan like keeps asking him wait how did you get your money and then he was also like i was almost a navy seal uh and he's like i completed navy seal basic training three times and they kicked me out for like calling my superior a [ __ ] uh so it's like of course yeah of course it's basically like i was too strong and so i got kicked out i completed i i fired the gun none of the stories make any sense at one point he says that he completed basic training of which he like completed half of the navy seal training like there's phase two and three and he completed a phase one um that's the um yeah yeah that's the heart that's the hard part that's based on how many followers you can get yeah it's the poker round said that one of the times he did it he completed it with two broken legs and i'm like like [ __ ] what do you like do you i just don't understand do you know what i mean does he say how he broke his legs or it was i don't know but he's like did he start it with his broken legs because i feel like he's gonna reschedule are you are you saying that you like did physical trials with two broken legs and succeeded at this thing i just think doesn't like that's not even a smart move in general even if you were weren't bsing that's a dumb thing to do because it like would theoretically [ __ ] up your body well that's the like that's the high school element of it right because it's not it's not like that rational there's not enough thought put into it but it's like uh i actually smoked like so many cigarettes that i was like coughing up blood and that's in the moment it's like whoa that's [ __ ] that's so [ __ ] epic and then you take 15 minutes and think about it you're like opening the fridge at night you're like he's gonna he's dying i mean that's crazy why would you do that it's not cool it's done in his defense he did have two uh consecutive heart attacks at age 25. uh yeah i think like due to all the cocaine he was doing or something like he had two like heart attacks and then joe rogan asked him like wait what's a heart attack exactly and then like he's like you know i should i should know because i've had two of them but i don't know and so it's just like okay um i knew after the first and the second yeah just it's just what what a what a cool guy is all i'm saying but you're too scared to make a video about it i i made the video about him and my long winded answer of like why my day is going well or why my week is going well is because normally when i film and this was a long script i wrote like 3 600 words or something which was probably probably like a hopefully a 25 minute video at the end of the day but um but not i mean we should say it wasn't in sentence form it's just a couple bunch of words you really oh i just yeah i was like red balloon um um yeah uh name three words oh yeah you wrote some words name three you like linguistics name a word name a single [ __ ] word you dumb um you dumb donkey i uh could think of a word the people say your mic is a little staticky but i don't hear that i don't know so it must be coming from me because it's not coming from you i'll adjust my gainer um could be peaking i don't think so you sound loud and clear anyway um what do you say uh so anyway my week my week was good because i filmed like for two hours and i didn't like feel exhausted at the end of it which is a new thing for me like normally when i film i can only if i'm doing one thing in the day it's filming because it i just get super beat after it um but i didn't i didn't and i even did some editing afterwards which is kind of crazy i've been thinking about doing an editing stream as well like that's going to be interesting because i know how to get all the audio sort of set up but i could get in there give you some give you tips but like not helpful at all it's not like about editing i don't know we we didn't know as much as one another it would not be helpful but i hop in there and i'm just like don't like it you know don't like what it's like it's no good we should just like first we should do like we should do some late night streams uh where i [ __ ] up my sleep um for you so that you can yeah that sounds great it'd be a fun time uh we got one or two in oh question how long do you see yourself doing youtube big fan of jarvis keep doing what you're what you love respect brother respect hey jarvis hey affect your brother my brother my brother and me um i i mean i don't see myself i'm like not looking past youtube right now in my like vision if that makes sense so it's true i mean youtube is sort of a relative term right because it's making stuff but i mean the same question could have been applied to like when do you see yourself not doing tech videos like i'm not going to pull that's not what youtube is it's just i'm not going gonna i'm not gonna uh pull a logic and like retire from the the rap game you know but you are gonna release some underwhelming albums is that right look they th those albums are for somebody and that somebody is me because i do enjoy them they're also for lebron james who's also a fan of logic sorry bobby and bobby bobby himself well apparently tmg proved if we roast bobby wait yeah hold uh logic bobby come on please come come on wait no you gotta rush i hate i oh my god under pressure trash the incredible true story trash um you clearly put so much work in your art it's like traps uh no pressure more like ass pressure uh trash pressure your king um uh uh don't keep crying come on logic you're not even logical solving a rubik's cube's not even that hard okay i could do it right now no i actually quite like logic oh i like a lot about the guy um his like i i enjoy his music because it's interesting like i have different expectations for different artists and different like things that i like about them and like what i understand people's criticism of logic but at the same time i'm having a grand old time you know what i mean yeah um like i i enjoy the guy and um and i think he's got a he's got a good message he's got a good heart i loved watching him uh cry on stream thanking drake and kendrick and like j cole all while he was uh he was responding um oh while he was talking about retiring from the game i think it's sort of a like music critique or like any kind of critique is interesting up to a point but when it starts like reflecting on how interesting an artist should be i don't like that [ __ ] like when well you know logic put out a couple of records i really didn't like so this whole retiring thing i don't know maybe this is a space to roast yeah somebody it's not really relevant to be honest it's it's it's related but then it's also like okay really specific pet peeve i hate how movies and tv general media production even youtubers and the like and musical artists and they're like you are not allowed to get involved with a project that like doesn't do well or isn't prestige according to public brand it's like nick cage in a bunch of movies and people are always just like oh he's in all these shitty movies therefore not as good as he would be if he didn't do those movies movies is not a [ __ ] zero-sum game like he likes acting he likes also spending money but he likes acting and clearly enjoys himself according to the interviews related to the show or the the various movies he'll do and the idea that if you do a thing that is not just great it lowers your points like it lowers your social capital so you should yeah and that's kind of where i'm at with logic like there's a decent chunk of his library that didn't super connect with me but it doesn't detract from like how interesting a person he could be or whether or not he should keep yeah it's also like a podcast you know like there might be a podcast that's like the best produced podcast in the world and yet someone can still connect with a podcast that's just like too young kind boys who just want to talk about their emotions even though the product is like you know not as pristine not as uh not good really the we are talking about tmg right no i was talking about gus and eddie podcast yeah of course finally i love all of you boys please come on the show and have us on yours i was talking about our show we don't love one of you and we'll let you figure out who um yes that's the so uh like it just doesn't like if something connects with people and it's not harming anyone like i don't see the problem with it you know what i mean yeah it's i i mean it it lives in the same bundle of like ice cold takes that kids just get intrinsically as like artists selling out like the artist selling out is such an intuitive like yeah dude that sucks and then you think about it for like 40 minutes and it's just like well what do you mean it it sucks it's not you no going to the hospital isn't bad i mean i guess you could die at the hospital it doesn't make the hospital bad like the idea that you couldn't just play in a space or make great stuff while getting paid is that kind of thing that kids think because it's yeah yeah it's also just like and people are the same way about people love to talk about how like somebody's falling off or somebody's not doing anything it's like if you're not always succeeding in the public eye then you're failing oh i haven't seen that person in a movie in a long time they fell off i haven't seen that person make music in a while they fell off it's like what does it matter everyone just wants to be a critic for some reason because they want to feel good about themselves and for some reason it feels good to put down people who are doing something because like it's you know you maybe want to be validated in like what you're doing or what you're not doing so it's like well this guy sucks so even though even though i haven't you know contributed anything to to the art world um i at least the amount that i've contributed is like not as bad yeah at least i can i've done nothing but at least i didn't yeah they did negatively by doing something they did negative and that means i'm more valid and it's like no that's not how that works yeah adam sandler gave an amazing performance in uncut gems but he's just gonna release bad movies again and that means that performance wasn't good for some reason if anything it shows that adam sandler knows exactly what he's doing also he knows this movie's not good exactly it's like that's not that's not the point yeah it's not like i okay here's the thing when it comes to adam sandler and a lot of the movies associated with this production company sure you can critique like yeah it'd be nice to have better movies and we know there's a lot of talent there and it wouldn't hurt to really be putting the hours in but at the same time there's a little bit of classism behind where people don't like these movies like it's it's it's the [ __ ] uh seinfeld watchers of the world don't like the adam sandler movies but they do exceptionally well same goes for medea movies but they do exceptionally well and it's like no no you're not sorry you're not valid because i didn't like what it was so you shouldn't have done it get rid of the wrong messier because i didn't like watching it so actually the people that did actually let's go okay so the shane dawson situation i don't know if you guys are it's kind of old news and kind of new news at the same time so shane dawson for those who don't know is a youtube juggernaut he's been on the platform since i was a little boy um and he uh used to do like this weird shock jock form of comedy where he would just like say offensive things and that was the punch line question mark like kind of like anthony jesselnik but not funny like and and it's gotten him into a lot of trouble now because the cancel culture um and don't even get me started i know why do we have to live in a time where people are accountable for their actions i know it's it's just that like before they weren't accountable so like i i thought i was home free but now unfortunately that is not the case i like doing what i wanted to yeah and so shane dawson kind of went through this giant transformation where he made a bunch of click bait like often sexualized stuff about like miley cyrus and other celebrities back in like 2007 2008 or whatever and then and let's not forget miley cyrus is how old now i don't yeah i don't even wanna i don't even remember i just like looked at some old titles of shane dawson videos because what i want to do is uh if i can find a bunch of his old videos and just like host them somewhere so that there's like a public record because he like cops she is not old enough for that to be okay all right good um because yeah it's weird but he was like doing this for shock value i guess and and he's had about a lot of applause oh so also that's not even the thing so like he's done blackface more times than you could count he's done um and it's mostly not been funny all kinds of like like pedophilia jokes like in in you know i will say that they are attempts at jokes i'm not saying that he's a pedophile i'm not saying that you know he is racist even i'm just saying that he has a track record of objectionable content that he made under the guise of comedy that ultimately doesn't land even in context and he's apologized uh very like poorly um so his story and only when provocated yes never like a like like a straightforward hey yeah you saw the blackface thing let me jump on that and also address these other things over here it was always fine my dad told me i have to apologize yeah so he um has like gone on h3h3 and said that you know every two years i get canceled for some reason um and it's like there's some [ __ ] evidence yeah yeah and it's this weird thing where um it boiled to a head um it boiled to a head recently because of the whole uh tati westbrook james charles jeffree star drama are you familiar with this the yeah i'm familiar with most of the anime saga yeah yeah so i know the villains but i know one of them joins the team or something yeah it's so essentially um essentially like tati westbrook came out against james charles a while back it blew up james charles lost 3 million subscribers and then got them all back when he released his video it kind of was like uh no he like actually isn't a bad guy in that way and then there were some recent allegations because tati made a video that implied that or no i don't remember what happened that implied that shane dawson i don't remember what catalyzed this it was probably something related to his uh jeffree star stuff um sure wait let me see people said it's staticky again yeah i spotted that i'm just gonna tell you things let me fix this using my patented dumb solution yeah it's it's not my mic it's definitely not you um okay rft dds is it is it fixed is it fixed let's let me try let us know in the chat how this it sounds a little tt pointy bit clicky kind of i think it sounds i think it's fine i think it sounds okay okay so um so so anyway she she claimed that shane and jeffrey starr pressured her into making this video about um uh about i just said his name james charles jesus uh and james charles jesus oh people said slowly getting worse again i started getting worse again no i don't i don't hear that anyway it sounds fine yeah um cool so uh anyway james charles has like a big microscope on him now because of these claims and then he makes this big statement about the beauty community and how he's like like how he's leaving it behind he kind of shits on it even though he's not really a part of a part of the makeup community part of the beauty community and um just while it's on my mind if people want a kind of like summary of that you know season one of this whole drama and they want it like articulated very well and kind of interestingly check out big joel's video on it big joel video is like a great video summarizing it and then critiquing the pieces of need critiquing at a position where i'm comfortable sharing this video so the video so the video i actually want to talk about uh is and while i'm giving this backstory is a video by d'angelo wallace who um is a a great creator uh you know funny story literally last night d'angelo wallace dm'd me we are not friends we don't know each other uh i followed him on twitter and he like dm'd me an animated story he was like breast is best no but he like sent me an animated story and i haven't responded yet because i was like star struck i need to like but anyway like he put together this video that is like very well researched and kind of puts a bunch of things in in context um and i think everyone should watch it because it will change your perspective on shane dawson most likely um but anyway the drama was shane dawson came out and was talking about was talking about um the beauty community kind of shat on it kind of said that uh famously said that james charles needed a slice of humble pie the size of the empire state building and it's like james charles to this day is still very young right like james charles is 21. james charles is 21. so we've got like these 30 year old men um like [ __ ] on this 19 year old boy and he uh with for the most part unfounded yeah unfounded um and then people who were like upset by this understandably went out and started like finding receipts on shane dawson from this time and shane dawson has done some pretty objectionable [ __ ] when he was way older than james charles so it's like people no one loves a hypocrite d'angelo's video goes into this expertly um and he has a great tone throughout it and it's it's done with respect um and that's like i just like really really liked this video the stuff that shane dawson has done is insane and like the main point that d'angelo is making is that the main point that d'angelo is making is that like shane has apologized in the past but he is to know he's not addressed the true stuff that he's been accused of it's like sure i did blackface sure i said the n word and it's like he did that way too much it's like gross as hell there's like and there's what mid-20s yeah i mean like it's uh like a sketch where you know shane and uh let me just like we'll see if this causes me to um the audio to fall out of sync again but i'm going to share my screen with you which should result is it available no but i think i can find a twitter thread this is one that i feel like i can show you um okay well maybe i can't find it okay i'm going to spend two more seconds on this um you could hear that audio just now no oh i think i'm not sharing my audio un segund now i'm sharing my audio um i really want to find this just because of how like shitty it is so i'm actually just going to pull up d'angelo's video okay you could hear that right okay i'm going to show you he compares like shane dawson's um blackface videos to minstrel c and i think that's exactly what it is because unlike unlike a i'm showing you the graphics but i'm not gonna show the chat like that's that's the lightest it gets like because you can find like clips of him getting okay so he's like comparing like it's always sunny's black face to like shane dot like this shane dawson [ __ ] um and it's like me yeah it's it's it's like bad and what's the is the the is the thesis of like the always sunny part that well that that is not a joke about how it's funny to dress up as a black person yeah it's like that's a joke about how pathetic it would be yeah it's like black people are always the butt of the joke and that's kind of like yeah unlike you know the black face in community where like ken chong is in blackface as an elf it's like he's not a black person he's an elf but then the black characters on screen comment on it i don't know what uh d'angelo's case is on on always honey i need to watch the video basically he says that do i think this is funny in concept yes do i think it's funny execution no i think it's like kind of cringey which which i actually agree with like watching it uh it lost me like it was a bit that like kind of had me and then it continued to go on and then i was like no um but yeah it's like it's not only the racist stuff it's also like uh weird animal stuff he's done where he just like makes all these like like making out with dogs like weird animal stuff he's definitely such a bad way to start pumping dogs making out with them and then no i remember this talking about like how he wants to have sex with them didn't and then stuff i don't even want to say on stream with his cat well that's a thing that he came out and said he didn't do yeah and then um and then it continues to get bad uh when there's also like podcast clips that he's said in the past were taken out of context so d'angelo is just like okay i'm gonna play a full like six minute clip or a few minute clip where you can hear the entire context of this where and it's like his joke his his quote-unquote like the joke is coming from like isn't it crazy that i'm saying these shocking things i'm calling a baby attractive i'm i'm doing this thing to willow smith you know what i mean like sure like it's like that's his joke and it's just like it doesn't work and it's i i just it's probably because he's not a comedian you know i mean yeah i mean it's it's exactly what every 14 year old thinks is funny not just because it's like quite immature or any of that [ __ ] it's just like technically legally a joke i guess yeah you've taken a thing and done the thing that you shouldn't do hahaha you got them it's also a shortcut to be being shocking is a shortcut to being funny kind of yeah because it makes people laugh nervously and i guess that's legally the same as making a funny joke yeah it's just that like it lacks a self-awareness and it lacks like a wink and a nod or a commentary and instead like leans into like the harmful the most harmful aspects of the the thing that is supposed to be humorous and the ultimate like worst [ __ ] in the world to me is uh let me check on the chat let's see how people are doing um yeah so okay well actually the the actual worst thing he did to me uh not to me the worst thing he did in my perspective is uh he kind of normalizes a lot of like abusive behavior you know there's this thing about like him making all these really weird comments to his niece about puberty and about sex and stuff and you could take that or leave it like he claims that like that's just how our family is whatever but when you have a platform you have to be mindful of like what sort of image you're giving to your audience and also it's a pattern for him to like sexualize children to the point where there's this horrible okay wait to the point where at vidcon he kissed a fan on the lips who was 12 years old which is unacceptable and then later that person came out and said like essentially i was groomed by the content of onision and like shane dawson because they normalized this behavior to me and it's like it's not about whether or not shane intended to do this because i don't think that he intended to do it and i believe you know his friends and other people who claim that he's a good guy and means well the fact of the matter is that doesn't matter the fact of the matter is like if there's harm on the other end of your content on a large scale where you should be accountable to your large audience an apology that addresses minor things here and minor things there doesn't get at the it's only going to feel hollow like kissing a 12 year old fan on the lips when you're 21 years old like how did you think that was okay well i i would i would guess that making the kind of [ __ ] he's been making and kind of getting away with i suppose never being in trouble to the degree where it's actually disenfranchised or like destroyed his career yeah would start to make you feel like yeah well there's not the first time we've heard people do absurd [ __ ] but especially in his case the thing you mentioned about if you have a platform of that scale you have a responsibility yeah and hey you could ignore that responsibility but then you're just as uh culpable for getting [ __ ] on as a result yeah you're always also at the end of the day you have double the responsibility if it's very obviously a demographic of children yeah like exactly you if you have like a bar and you like when people get into a fight you don't stop them and like you serve poison drinks and you're just like a shitty dirty mean bar that's really bad if underage kids come into that shitty dive bar you're in a whole new genre of [ __ ] yeah i also want to say like content warning way late um the content warning is for everything under the sun um you know discussion of abuse of animals of people of you know essentially pedophilia uh even in a humorous context um or in an intended humorous context and racism um obviously uh so the worst thing from a content perspective oh he also exchanged gum with another fan and i'm like there's just too many yes men who was underage and it's like there's too many yes men in this there's too many parents who are complicit there's too many adults in the room shane included because he was an adult this entire time um i think he's been an adult since he started his channel but that's beside the point the uh from a content perspective the worst thing i'm just looking at the chat real quick okay see people say it was a real okay look there's a comment here in the chat that i'm gonna read i don't like using it as as an excuse but it really was a different time and a lot of people didn't really critically look at whatever fangirls were doing people got away with a lot because people dismissed it as oh young fangirls are just so wild it doesn't that doesn't work for me it doesn't work i don't know what i don't know what the statement is though yeah so i don't like it i use are you using it as an excuse he's not using it as an excuse but but like the thing is i was around i was there during this time this was not okay i was watching youtube do you think the vlogbrothers were up to the [ __ ] no and it's like yes there were some youtube you know it's like michael buckley what the buck he pushed the envelope he got nowhere near this level of like nonsense you know what i mean like harvey weinstein's accusations don't only go back to the point where it was bad yeah it's like it's like hollywood was a different time it's like no that doesn't there's no excuse that's the thing it like doesn't matter what the context was because at the end of the day if someone's it's like look i'm sorry my mental health and my background and my whatever it was a different time i did shoot a person i did kill someone but like you have to understand that like we were all killing people back then it's like the world was some people were killing people but it was never okay and i i strongly disagree with anyone who says that like this was okay at the time or this was understandable at the time not lisa which because it uh it castrates prose progress yeah like oh it was a different time okay so when do we at what point did like the watershed aired on doing this despicable [ __ ] was it like 2009 so after that we can start being stressed out by things but like what what changes cultural standards aside from it always being a problem yeah if we then came to him was like hey this is really [ __ ] up you'd be like actually we're currently in a different time yeah i haven't been canceled for this yet so i don't think we're in the in the time where i should like the fact that like the only thing that like like from a narrative perspective the only thing that's true about it being a different time is that no one there was a lack of awareness because youtube was a smaller community and there was a lack of protecting there was a lack of a dialogue sort of as a world community and as a culture in protecting people on the internet from abuse and different forms of abuse because it's like it's a new type of of abuse in many ways um but in many other ways it's not and like also francesca ram like d'angelo points us out like francesca ramsey and other creators were calling out shane's content in like 2007 or 2008 like it's it wasn't it wasn't just like flying under the radar to that extent but like yeah the people with the platforms the people who were enabling were not saying no and that's to me the problem like it's it was consistently enabled and that is a product of the culture but it doesn't excuse it doesn't excuse anything i want to give a shout out to uh the i don't know if they want me to say the name or not but the person that brought that up in the chat is saying that they're using it more as an example though i don't think that devalues what we're saying because it is for sure i have seen that statement literally [ __ ] everywhere used as a very real excuse for the behavior uh they also gave the insight the interesting note that like there was no proper representation for those fan girls and that's correct yeah the closest they would ever get is some kind of like cheeky semi-comedic like oh my god you did that with shane dawson that's so crazy or uh i mean to be completely [ __ ] honest with you more often than not they'd get the lewinsky treatment yeah they'd get them on yeah grateful example oh my god you i can't believe you did that or you let that happen yeah like monica lewis and blaming is the opportunity sexually abused by a man a very powerful man and we should say i mean i know maybe a demographic isn't old enough to know about that but that's uh i mean bill bill clinton bill clinton former u.s president bill clinton sexually abused an intern monica lewinsky um and which when when that was found out she was ostracized she was the bad guy her career in life was destroyed yeah and like now she talks about bullying online she talks she uses her platform for so much good and i think she deserves like a shout out what up monica lewinsky like uh and she just genuinely come on the party generally come on the pod she um she also has a clap back game like no other like like on twitter she will yeah she's out of control yeah yeah yeah but um i i do agree okay someone is saying that like with social media growing it really is a different time i agree that it's a different time now and i agree that like we are having a dialogue about these things it does not excuse past behavior a lot about the time that we're in now is we like is looking back on like what we allowed in the past and like even if it's retroactive finding sort of justice and and sort of defending the people in the communities that were wrong do you know what i mean so the uh the other thing on this on the shane video that i'll say the last thing and it's the worst from a content perspective is a series uh like called hey miley i think or something millie millie mate it's probably a million not miley with the fine brothers bt dubs so apparently [ __ ] the fine brothers just gotta say that because well that's not news yeah but it's just like they made let me see if angela can explain it so there's a series that the fine brothers and shane dawson made called hey millie and it features shane dawson and a puppet who is supposed to be an eight-year-old girl named millie already a problem because the joke with hey milly is that this fictional eight-year-old is saying outlandish inappropriate [ __ ] and the adults in the room are going hahaha that's crazy this is a joke this has been a joke forever like literally sadie's sister was on mad tv as a child uh in a bit where she said something offensive like she called somebody a [ __ ] or something as a baby as a kid and it's like hahaha the the kids are doing funny stuff but this is so [ __ ] up when you just like look at it and you also know the audience mad tv's audience is adults right like and maybe it's like [ __ ] lord teenagers like us but like the um shane dawson's audience is children clearly the people who are going to his meet and greets are like 12 year old girls so like that's what we're working with here yeah no i'm gonna i feel like i'm doing a disservice by not bringing up the movie that the fine brothers directed a trashy piece of [ __ ] movie don't watch it it's boring and you don't you shouldn't put money in their pockets they've got plenty of money coming from other unethical places they made a movie called f the prom pretty much it actually has a great commentary track on it and they did a summary video pretty much it youtube check it out unsubscribe from java subscribe to them you have a limited resource you need to do that they there is a that entire movie is filled front to back with quote jokes about statutory rape it's like a central p it's it's there's constant people getting their like pants pulled down always underage and making jokes about blah blah and then there's just straight up like i kind of don't even want to repeat it i i will for context but there's they're talking about the prom and the problems on the way and there's a creepy lady teacher who's almost certainly a youtuber because why else with that person get in this kind of movie and she's just there like enjoy the prom everyone and remember it's only a statutory if you get caught and it's like it's not a it doesn't land like at all the performance is bad the timing is terrible the like context doesn't really add up the world is not as absurd as that joke is it's kind of like the uh uh like the south park movie problem where it's like yeah is this supposed to be a story or what's actually happening here i that moment is so indicative of how something like that would happen because i don't care if rafi and benny is that the name who knows i don't know dumb and dumbo i don't care if they don't care that it's [ __ ] up and i don't care if they don't understand why it isn't funny what i'm confused and like intellectually insulted by is the idea that they wouldn't see it's tactless like yeah like you can yeah think dumb [ __ ] maybe even write dumb [ __ ] but at the very least from the most cynical way possible as their like consultant i would say like um yikes just like even if i thought it was funny i would just be like don't put it in yeah don't put it in the movie obviously like oh yeah funny bit with that puppet don't release it obviously yeah it's like crazy it gets worse and i just can't show it i can't have you i can't have you watch it i can't listen to it again myself but it's like this is indianjoy's video uh it's in d'angelo's video it's like at some point the puppet is not wearing clothes so it's like okay well it's an eight-year-old so what are we doing here if that's the thing and then there's also like sexual advances that the puppet is making towards shane saying some like outlandish [ __ ] and it's like stop just stop think about what you're doing about what you're saying and about who you're saying it to and no one is doing that it's just like everyone's like hahaha youtube content um i wanted to draw a comparison real quick because we're talking about this stuff and talk about the time oh good good fine so like so like bo burnham who we are both fans of i think bo burnham is one of the like most inspirational artists to me in my creative life and also just like an incredible an incredible creator uh i i say an artist that's put out put out what i would be comfortable dying after yeah yeah yeah and so like when he was 16 he started his youtube channel and he was famous for making inappropriate jokes in song but like i don't know what separates like what what the difference is you know what i mean like one he's 16 so it is different it is different for a 16 year old but um it's and it's also it's just that it's framed in a clear parody i would say that there's two big funnily enough we actually talked about obviously we talked about bob burnham on the super old taylormade episode yeah because we talked about uh his track kill yourself and like how how comfortable are we with that implication personally i i have no issue with it for the reasons that i would i'm about to highlight here uh i am not the world's biggest fan of the icy cold take that you could do anything in comedy happening well i gotta make the joker i guess you know like that kind of [ __ ] yeah shut up no just think like critically it's we're not destroying comedy comedy requires an audience and if the audience isn't engaged not the audience's fault [ __ ] grow up the big w that i think bo burnham grasps and we should point out like bo burner made eighth grade which is literally a movie about how old is like eight is eighth grade like 12 uh eighth grade is 13. okay so that is a movie about a 13 year old girl that is produced with an awareness of how predatory the world can be yeah and handles it like so elegantly like i know for a fact it was not exclusively him that he scripted up that stuff he was very respectful well he like he like paid attention to a lot of the young people he watched a lot of like young people youtube lck fisher uh who not to brag no that follows me twitter oh did you know this she followed me on twitter you know why shout out to lckfisher the absolute homie rockstar great twitter and i keep saying come on the pond i mean yeah we would definitely have lcds but like i love that this but like 8th grade specifically is a perfect example of how you can take challenging material and material that you may or may not be in a position to make things about and you consult people who know what they're talking about you make sure that you're not making an unfair parody the great thing about the way that bo burnham writes is that he's writing for a parody version of himself the joke is the absurdity of the statement he's making and how dumb beau fictional beau or how silly fictional beau is for making that change it feels like it exists inside of a world that it has defined for itself yes like like similarly to like anthony juesselnik who makes even like more outlandish humor and that's his entire bit and he pushes i think he pushes the line of comedy like the furthest uh in terms of like what you can like what if you look at the transcript what he's literally saying um it still feels different than like the shane stuff i'm gonna read these bo burnham lyrics because it can like look you know well i'll read i'll read one that's like i'll read the beginning of the song uh what's a pirate minus the ship just a creative homeless guy and an anteater plus a large hungry mutant ant an ironic way to die and what's domain domain range a kid with too much in his pants two balls minus one seven titles at the tour to france the tour de france cancer that's that's like a uh you know that's a bo burnham you know thing it's like he's making fun of a lot of things he's doing it in a but there's also the upbeat construct of the song and the fact and one of the reasons his shows work so well is that he's quite he's taking you as the audience's hand and he's saying do you want to come into my little house that's my weird little hat you're like you don't you feel a bit bad for coming into my weirdo and it's a pun and it's like it's drawing the audience to like laugh at things that they shouldn't laugh at and that's different than like shane because there's no jokes with shane's stuff it's like saying the shocking thing is a joke to me beau is like working for the joke and this is bo as like a 16 to 18 year old you know what i mean so it's like younger than shane doing much more yeah yeah it's like here's here now now that i set up that here's like maybe the worst one uh well here's two of the worst ones um let's see and if kim is half as old as bobby who is two years older than 12 year old tory for how many more 30 day months will the threesomes be considered statutory rape and it's like ooh a rape joke you know and it's like but in the construction of like a math problem and being drawn to that punch line it serves a construct as a joke and so it's like whether or not it's appropriate or not is kind of not even the point i'm making it is constructed as a joke you have no idea where he's going and then that joke can only be served that way yeah again i don't it doesn't crack me up this is not like yeah this dress younger material is remarkable for being 16 but it's not the stuff that i really like yeah when i was when i was 16 and what like while listening to this i sing along to this song i clearly know all the lyrics to it or whatever and it's like so i get it i'm the reference i i do yeah the lyrics are actually wrong here on genius and i'm correcting them um and then the worst the worst line is you know and squaring numbers are just like women if they're under 13 just do them in your head uh and it's like you know like it's a joke where where it's like once again i can't sort of say the joke is okay because that's like for the viewer to understand or for the viewer to make their own conclusions but the punchline of the joke isn't uh the expense of a young person it's actually saying like don't do essentially like what what this give you red is saying is hey shane dawson if you are uh thinking about making a video where you're jerking off to a uh to an image of underage 13 year old willow smith um maybe just do that in your head and don't do it so you know it's like there's even like even benny and rafi maybe take that line out it's like even the 16 year old bo burnham here is like has enough self-awareness to know that like to not go as far as shane does you know so what's the i mean wrapping up i mean what is the final like chain nail coffin wise where are we at so my man's uh my man's officially buried straight in the dirt or what's going on so the uh he was he was d he was temporarily i'm just like reading what people have said while i was going through that bit to see if there's any like sort of takes that i want to touch on yeah i think this is a great you know someone said someone said that it's always sunny joke you know like i think that the always sunny joke is another example of something that like i don't think um you know you can have your opinion about it but it is thoughtful in how it's presented and if you look at the transcript of what the people are saying sure it looks bad but watching it in context it is clearly a joke and it is clearly making a commentary and the butt of the joke is not the joke is the marginalized party she is the yeah she is the joker and that's what upset me about the fact that community the episode advanced dungeons and dragons which is one of the best episodes of community was taken off of netflix due to the blackface thing and it's like what do you mean what do you mean it's a commentary on blackface like you have donald glover and yvette nicole brown commenting on it during it and he's not even a black person he's an elf right like it's the butt of the joke is kim jong not knowing where the line is not knowing that it's inappropriate to do blackface under any context even when he's not being a black person you know what i mean and like to take away that like kind of like we it kind of loses community came out in 2009. community came out in 2009 the same year that shane dawson was doing blackface and was making smart jokes about not doing blackface like that could have very easily been like it's like it's so and i mean in both of these examples the people doing it are the ones that are comedically out of touch yeah like oh like sorry like by which i mean hilariously out of touch they don't understand what it is that they've been doing wrong and that's not because you can't make jokes about anything these days bro gotta go make the joker bad movie don't believe otherwise if you do you probably need to like think more about the media you can see them yeah it's that's not the response to it your response needs to be hey oh i see they're critiquing the behavior of those people and removing critiques of that behavior is kind of just like oh okay so the only blackface material that could exist anywhere is people doing it sincerely yeah like like shane having a platform being able to do that even in the abstract on blackface yeah the the other thing is that like it's people are like people people like to pretend that people weren't protesting or critiquing stuff at the time bo burnham was uh like boycotted and stuff and he was like oh yeah like people like protested him performing at their shows even though he was like an 18 year old kid making these like off-color jokes so and it's like don't even get me started on eminem who said a bunch of outlandish [ __ ] even under the guise of a character where like he you know um he's been protested and demonstrated against picket signs for his wicked rhymes look at the times what was that 2003 it was at different times 2003 and he was being picketed for homophobia and shane dawson is doing [ __ ] like and i say this uh i'm not trying to compare the plights sort of of the lgbtq plus community and of black people i do not want to make that thing but i just i i i want to draw it to like we were in a um we were in a time cleaning out my closet let me just 2002 um and then uh and gay marriage wasn't legalized in america until 2015. so i just want to like well i mean there's two types of this statement right and i know which one you're doing and i want to make it really clear to everyone there's a statement of it was a different time so here were the things that were happening differently versus this was different time so excuse this thing over the other this is this is close to saying like it was a different time and that's why all the guys on mad men are horrible sexist creeps not it was a different time so leave don draper alone for being a weird sexist group i'm just saying that like it was a different time should not stand up as a defense of shane dawson's behavior because we have like sort of comparable i don't even think they're that comparable i think that in any of the examples shane dawson's behavior is far worse than anything like well i don't know i don't want to compare them because it's like it's tough but i would say that like the artistry there is artistry to eminem's work there's artistry to bo burnham's work and i do not feel like shane's stuff has that artistry unless it like doesn't deserve the like you could write think pieces about bo burnham or eminem right and like sort of try to tease apart what they've contributed to the culture and what they've taken away by propagating any harmful ideas less so for bo burnham because he like after he was a teenager he kind of got away from that stuff but uh can i can i throw something wait let me let me just let me just let this go real quick uh get that play but the thing is that even six years before shane dawson would do an offensive thing that is offensive to everyone involved except for children who don't know any better and was protested and demonstrated against uh 12 years before you know the like same-sex marriage would even be legalized in america like if shane dawson's stuff had reached out more widely no doubt he would have been like criticized now it's just coming to light because the eyeballs weren't he's built an entire platform on this and i think it's like appropriate to yeah someone's saying it could possibly be because youtube was so insular back then that's what i'm saying it's like i'm saying that like it was so insular back then but he built a sort of uh he built a career on it so i think it's fair game to criticize and to sort of hold accountable someone in a powerful position so yeah you don't you don't get to have the power and also the immunity of ignorance yeah that's that that's like ignorance and benefit of the doubt are the things you have to check at the door when you go into the influencer club yeah like once you hunt you are in a position of power and you have clout in any career but let's like you know keep it in circle with specifically creators and content producers there's a tax on being there and the taxes you have to be more responsible than most people do with those kind of statements it's a little bit like how if you have 30 grand in the bank you don't get to gripe about being broke it's it can be cathartic to gripe about being broke but once you have that 30 grand in the bank sorry you just you that's the thing you don't get anymore that's the trade-off and you're like the the you theoretical 30 grand in the bank kind of person it's like like palmer you know i wish you the best i only want you to enjoy all the good things you can in the world but yeah that is the one thing you miss out on the trade is that you get to have 30 grand in the bank yeah this is just like that you you can feign ignorance all you want you can pull back and you can say that well i jk rowling i'm just i'm allowed just like anybody else to hold an opinion and then also decry the the issues with cancer culture cancer culture isn't like some [ __ ] a mortal amorphous magical like presence floating all around us oh my god it's look out everyone it's the disease of cancer culture we have to find we have to run away from it yeah it's just all cancer culture is is people's reaction to [ __ ] you did yeah when you say you want rid of cancer culture what you're saying is i don't want people to react this way to the thing that's happening that's not a thing you can do that's not a power that you or anybody else has and the idea that we could say to you know in shane's case well you know shane didn't understand this it was a different time and also you know they were coming up and and i would even critique bo burnham i i don't have as any kind of hot takes about it so i have nothing to say but if somebody would have critiqued by burnham about the same stuff i think his age would be a factor i think there's a good faith argument to be made there but what i'm what i'm trying to say is like the not excusing any of it the it's just on its face objectionable behavior yeah people have actually thrown out i know like a ton of other comparisons tyler the creator joji yeah filthy frank filthy frankenstein which also like nobody knows anymore yeah that's funny there's a lot of people that are very surprised by that yeah filthy frank was so again you can challenge things like that if you want and this this this itch is an instinct that i have that i don't know how comfortable i am i'm not even sure if i agree with it but i want to show it to you to see whether or not you're on the same page there is a part of me that does value how funny it is and it's not because well if it's funny i can ignore the problematic part of it what it is is if a joke a track or whatever is really well constructed there is a small part of jordan that's able to say to himself well in order to make a really good joke you do have to think critically and i am willing to bet this person gets it like right jeselnik is a great example like yeah i don't when i hear chestnut make a joke about x or y i don't go well that's got to be close to his real personal beliefs it's so deliberately absurd and well put together i'm like nobody that that thinks like that and puts things together with that level of intricacy just did it randomly there's just no way or even something like south park you know like it's just like a lot of thought goes into even though the stuff being said is like objectionable in a lot of different ways like i think there is value and i also don't know where i stand on this but i do think that there's value in the work that was put in like for example like when i uh like if i make a video shooting on five minute crafts or or [ __ ] on jstation like i don't like [ __ ] on just anybody uh and i should on jstation because there's a subtext to what i'm making fun of and like you may look at a very simple joke of me just like saying jstation like sounds stupid or does something stupid or whatever uh but what i'm actually doing is punching down at like jstation's premise of his video that homophobia is funny you know what i mean so it's like so in calling out like that it's like it's clear that i've thought about like what i guess for me it's like i always think about how what my commentary means what it means for me to comment on this thing similar to what's the end goal and what's the the damage it could do and is that a concern yeah there is cody ko is not a cyber bully yeah i think we can say that with some authority but if you want to pick and choose literally what it is that he's doing yeah yeah he did identify somebody online and said funny things about them that could be considered mean but to just give those pieces that's not a court case baby that is that is way too selective that's way too contextual yeah if i went through your video any of the videos where i suppose people could categorize it that way because the most people are very stupid i could very comfortably put together like a little blurb single paragraph this is why jarvis canceled jarvis johnson party whatever but on closer inspection no no no you close you more closely inspect any of the shane dawson [ __ ] doesn't doesn't fix it doesn't resolve it doesn't like absolve him of all the [ __ ] all it does is like maybe make it worse in a lot of cases it's like oh shane did that that pretty bad stuff what about his other content oh that's the worst thing i've ever seen yeah and i think that you know to blame youtube a little bit too i think that youtube is somewhat complicit because of like their their view on the types of content that they are willing to take a stand against versus not um you know shane had his past for the entirety of his past and yet youtube kind of co-signed him for a lot of the way he's recently been suspended from his ads he it's a little bit of a golden parachute for shane dawson to answer the earlier question that you were saying about like where do we land right now and uh and it's like youtube has had this like very laissez-faire very hands-off perspective on the content on its platform unless it gets into like like actively dangering someone in terms of violence or what have you but when it comes to these more insidious ways that people harm like any one of [ __ ] jstations videos uh somehow like it takes for jstation to get arrested for his youtube channel to go away and it's like that's not his channel should have gone away a long time ago because all one person has to do is look at what he's doing and say buying slaves off the dark web isn't someone that deserves to have a platform you know like uh and the idea like kind of obfuscating that responsibility like there's some kind of ironclad law as to what should be done is frankly [ __ ] pathetic like the the idea that well we don't have to keep them off the platform so it can't be that bad and the thing is is that if you're not kicking them off the platform twitter obviously has plenty of issues in the same realm if you don't kick a neo-nazi off the platform what you implicitly say is that it's okay to be a new nazi yeah you can you can throw smoke you can throw bombs just as much as you want to block the fact that you're doing that you can say well nope your honor i i played the fifth i wasn't involved at all yeah yep well you didn't you didn't defuse the bomb did you and i think you didn't do the thing but you didn't stop the thing when you had absolute power to do so it's just embarrassing and hiding behind the corporate scale too is a big part of that like oh well we're youtube we're just a big robot and i think um and i think that like i think that it's kind of like our i feel like morally responsible knowing what i know now about shane's content to tell other people who may not know what has transpired in the past because i'm not thinking about if i had seen d'angelo's video when um you know when i first followed shane dawson on on twitter or something i wouldn't have followed him on twitter and i would have constantly been asking why are we supporting this man kind of like how it's like why are we supporting chris brown we know he beat rihanna and he's not demonstrated that he's gotten better as a person he's consistently displayed aggressive behavior towards women and uh and yet he's continued to be co-signed by all of the biggest people in the music industry and so it's like what do you mean cancel culture like it's like where's the cancer culture for chris brown you know what i mean like it's like because he's cute have you seen how his stance defend him it's like he's so attractive i wish he did that to me is literally like something that they say and it's absurd and it's not okay and i think that like we need to sort of be mindful of like who we're propping up with this sort of behavior um and shane like i it's like i want him to be better you know what i mean like i don't think his platform's going away i think that like by no means is shane dawson going to lose his entire audience and his entire income instead he is uh [Music] he is hopefully going to learn from this experience and move forward in a more like in a cleaner way you know like having addressed this stuff and knowing um like he's not gonna lose his livelihood so i don't think that we should worry about holding him accountable for his past actions because nor do it's not also [ __ ] off with that [ __ ] i'm so sick of well don't destroy a man's job yeah [ __ ] sorry excuse you yeah what that's not that's it's just like when covert hit and all of a sudden everybody was like well but you know if you can't pay rent you're screwing over your landlord you're staticking again i think it's good that sounds okay to me um okay so uh you were saying cancel culture you're a fan of it yeah i think it's i think it's funny um i again yeah i've been asleep for a couple of weeks but uh what's jk doing oh jk rowling man i wish it was only a couple of weeks jesus it's been like that's like the most absurd that's the most absurd thing to me and we can make make a whole episode about this but like the fact that jk rowling is like doubling down and is being like this is the problem that we need to address right now i can't say that the outlandish [ __ ] that i want to say and people are people are challenging it that's not i should be allowed to use the world's largest platform to say whatever i want to say and it should be completely unchallenged they shouldn't they shouldn't challenge that i can i can say what i want with my position of power and i can put other people in jeopardy i don't physical jeopardy is a huge part of it what she's probably thinking is like yeah i can get some uh some trans people harassed on twitter by clapping back with a super weak take at them but then if somebody's saying something to mean to me online hold on that's abuse i'm afraid that's not fair it's your privilege breaks your brain yeah baby it just does it snaps the way that you think if you're famous and powerful for too long you start to it's been it's probably been literally years since something happened a jk rowling that you didn't like yeah yeah like it's probably literally been the best part of a decade with the exception of like fantastic beasts coming out nobody liking it nothing has ever happened to her for years that she didn't want or was fine with so all of a sudden you come along and you like give them a little little shove you tap somebody on the side that's never felt pain before you pinch them one time they're gonna think you're trying to kill them yeah like the perspective is so warped yeah i mean and that's like a lot a lot of shane and chris brownstein seem to be yeah or i mean jake paul who's like uh i'm being silenced by youtube and it's like homie these are the consequences of the platform that you built but i don't like it yeah and i just think it's uh i just think it's important for you know 10 years from now when shane is still making content for people to know his past before they become a fan of him so that they can move forward with a clear conscience and also hopefully he's sort of gotten his [ __ ] together and that's all we want because this platform's not going to go away it's like jake paul i don't your platform's not going to go away i just want you to be better and to acknowledge because your past platform is there like i would love nothing more than for him to make a effective and sincere apology not just because it would stop hurting the people that he's hurt and stop upsetting people that he's upset but think about that stan base now now you've just taken an army of people refusing to listen to logic and refusing to grow yeah reasonable to borrow terrorism yeah yeah and now you've like weaponized them in a good way if they're going to irrationally follow anything you say they should believe then say that they should believe that you shouldn't mock children yeah and shouldn't do some pretty [ __ ] heinous [ __ ] in public with the guys of being famous like the it would be so good for shane to come out and talk about what he's done and talk about why it's bad so that he can demonstrate that for his followers because him just apologizing in people being like i accept your apology all of which are like teeny boppers you know who like don't really know the extent of what he's done it's like gonna make him feel good and like he's off scot-free or whatever but doesn't actually serve to address the problem um so with that we should end the show but we should end it on a positive note i think that uh i want to thank you jordan for engaging in this topic with me and talking to me on a sunny sunday um and just being a good old boy thanks man i want to thank the people who are tuning in on twitch.tv boys pod for keeping us company um if you too could do you and i am pointing into the ears of the podcast listener yeah you two could tune in we do it on sundays every single sunday at noon perhaps we're five years in the future and sundays don't even exist anymore or whatever but you check the instagram sadboyspod on instagram the twitter sadboyzpod on twitter we'll tell you when to come listen we end every episode of sad boys with a particular phrase we love you and we're sorry [Music] take my money go away

Channel: Sad Boyz Podcast

Views: 331,430

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Id: EDNpQefb8vc

Length: 102min 11sec (6131 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 18 2020