The Awakening Of Russell Brand | Rich Roll Podcast

[Music] well one of the things that I've always appreciated about your message and kind of what you put out to the world is that you're very much a traditionalist about the steps and sobriety in a world in which it seems like every year without fail somebody comes up with some new idea that's followed by a lot of think pieces about how antiquated Alcoholics Anonymous is and I'm all for new ideas and kind of spearheading you know interesting perspectives on sobriety and recovery but the 12 steps are what got me sober and G be sober they work they've worked for countless people that I know and it almost it almost feels like you have you're being you're cutting across culture now and it's it's sort of a risk to come out and say this actually works you know and it was so straightforward in your recovery book and I really appreciated that thank you I feel the only way I'd be able to do it was by speaking from a personal perspective and I spoke to a lot of people perspective and acknowledging that anything that I know thats worth knowing has been taught to me and I spoke to a lot of people they've got a little more time than me and said and one person in particular that I know guy who's all for docs you know a nice of sitting right I'm doing this thing what do you how do you know how should I do this and I thought if I if this guy can like I can get him to say it's all right then it's all right because he is you know even in terms of like dancing around the tradition of anonymity yeah how is I never say which fellowships if any I go to that's how I know but it's almost like a technic it's like a technicality hmm you know yeah we're calling it the secret society we all know what we're talking about here yeah and and we're in a different world like I I struggle with this cuz I don't know where that line is I'm sure I've crossed it many times only in my own personal experience not with anybody else's but still I never know quite where that demarcation that DMZ exists well for me like well I've done is I've never self spoke I've never said cause I've never said a particular fellowship name I can't be claiming speak I'm part of a fellowship 12 tips is applicable to Clara's alcoholic drag they're either smokers you know and I've had they're probably the same as you on the way into addiction food and sex issues on the way out of Indian food and sex issues and and now like them the codependency my relationships and the 12-step method is applicable universally so um I don't debate it because I say like for me like you I'm grateful to the to the groups that I belong to in that they've provided me you know I've saved my life and without it I wouldn't be I don't better on my own but what I feel like is well I feel like it's an amazing technique and I feel like that there's as many ways of working it as there are people working it I think it's robust enough some of the nice thing about Shakespeare to have doing I'm developing a show where I use Shakespearean monologues to tell a biographical story I mean I take some or and do a logs I take an argument between Caliban and Prospero so this was like my stepdad a speech of Richard the third that he's always like to feel ugly a speech from Hamlet about feeling loss and connection to comedy um and the guy at this scholar from Warwick University professor this guy Tony he said to me Shakespeare is robust Shakespeare can handle it like it's like it's not so fragile and delicate but we have to stage it in this way you have a say in that way it can handle it is powerful stuff you know this is truth it's got truth in it I feel the same way with the 12 steps that you know if like if you want to work it excuse me as an atheist there was a Buddhist or a Muslim or if you like how you know it can handle it because it's obviously universe with predates the 12-step fellowships in some form in evident form in through the Oxford group and those first centers and Christian groups that were using it and I'm gonna do a dissertation with Rose University in London to look at the origins of these ideas and where they are found on where are they found is there precedent in Buddhism Hinduism Christian they're obviously mostly derived from Christianity and sort of Union psychology those are those things we sort of ignore it William James you know we know about those ideas and Emma Fox likes of first century Christians or writers but I'm interested in whether these ideas coming from like a proper scholarly dissertation yeah like legitimate straight-up academic paper yes we've done blows in the middle of it I'm in the middle of a degree religion in global politics yes because well I like part-time no and it and even his class going on in the UK right now I'm trying to use this as for one of my modules chat with rich well um I don't know like they like within that I can do a dissertation on on the twelve steps and the origins of the twelve steps it's a superb but progressive modern college you know sort of varies what I was saying like in four bite like Foucault Edwin Sayid all that kind of modern universe is what it is and I want to learn about the origins I want to become wise well certainly yeah they're all they're all of the ideas the core principles are rooted in you know ancient principles that date back to you know it's finding the antecedent of that would be super interesting and it begs the question of just how divinely inspired it was for you know Bill and Bob to kind of channel this information and you know put it on paper like where did it come from for them like they they were not they were not you know in they were not religious scholars and yet they were able to grasp these ideas and translate them for a modern population from the right ends that are available to us within within fellowships it like Bill Wilson describes an epiphany like a very sort of plain flash of like kind of immediate download which if you heard it in a yogic tradition you've got my god that's like the touch of what I've got some funderbolt flash of God consciousness and it also like so came through but when you when I break down the 12 steps it's essentially a tool for awakening even in its own terms having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps so it's a feel the way I've come to regard it is the problem substance misuse is a carapace a holding pattern for you know even within the cotton finer the steps the defects of character but you've come across step six my last my pride my self-pity my self centered their selfishness intolerance etc and the only way I read something today the only I think from Yogananda the only way to over cut you know we don't forgive anybody you overcome the person that held grudges like you know like myself can never really forgive the self is made up a locked into identification but if I can transcend the person that feels resentment if I can become another man then those resentments are another country well that that process of iteration are you becoming another man or are you becoming more of who you were always meant to be or more of who you truly are I preferred your voice there yeah recovery of the person that you were meant to be someone said once and I like that before we become impeded in impaired and sort of tangled up and lost in sort of the coordinates of a culture that overly stimulates primal desires and traps us in odd patents yeah so even sober for a long time now at this point right just eight sixteen years yeah yeah yeah and and how is that how is your perspective on your recovery kind of changed over time like where are you at with it now versus where you're at with it at five years or ten years I take it more seriously than ever I recognize how fallible I am and I see that there is no area of my life where I can't apply those principles I try to spot as early as I can where I am attaching to some external idea and so I apply it universally now whereas before it was enough just not to drink and take drugs I mean if I cannot drink and take drugs that will be fantastic but I'm not interested in addressing my behavior in other areas what still yeah that's not no consequences - yeah you know for yourself anyway and so like it's it's come very slowly for me you know I feel like I have a certain mental facility in some ways but was so spiritually um it was not a flash of light source or so but you're you've always been a seeker yes you know and and perhaps that that search for wholeness or for answers has been pursued in unhealthy manners from drugs and alcohol to sex relationships and all the like but at at your core you're somebody who's committed to finding answers and filling that hole and you know achieving connection and wholeness I feel it's our natural state to look for that kind of connection I think that we were all looking for it in one way or another and I suppose I must have strong drives you know that's where I see it now and I'm trying to see though what those drives do if I don't continually demand things of them if I don't get me in a movie get me laid like and if I just say what do you want to do what happens what happens we have someone in our Natasha you'd love this because it's not anything he's out Hicks was reading an advance copy but it's by some one of them people who surnames Rin posh like he's an Abba yah oh yeah Tibetan Margaery Nepalese fellow and he decided to go and wandering retreat and like he was father gave him one bit he's believed to be at Ulmer court on without we know the reincarnated Lama or whatever his father gave him one piece of advice if you ever do this wandering tradition tell no one so they eventually he leaves his monastery sneaks out and the dead of night and first like the way he described like these anxiety in getting into a taxi then he's irritation being on a train with other people and then he sent of attachment to his ropes he says he says like my whole life I've been trained in non-attachment like from I learned language you know at the same time as I learned nothing is real death is coming study these flowers everything's gonna go don't get that you know and the gut and the practice of it is entirely different because he would like necessarily he became he was attached to non attachment even - to his identity as a prominent Abbot within a bloody monastery so that makes me feel like oh we can be forgiving ourselves of ourselves those of us that have been cultivated and grown to be egoic and individualistic and materialistic and to regard things as commodities what how would we know how would we know well that's the malaise that sits at the very center of everything that ails us as a culture you know socially and politically this attachment to identity are our egoic Center and individualism at its core yes yes how are we gonna overcome these and achieve this utopian society of which you speak so fond well my I reckon riches got to be this it's got like its I believe it's through service I believe that the way to liberate myself from the belief that I can only be happy if I get what I want is to daily moment-to-moment remind myself that I had like I wrote about it in in loads of books I always mention it nags away at me I when I was met Amma one of the times I've had the privilege of spending some time with Amma I went to her ashram and after you get there man tore off her in the hug one of her this of Brahma and these more heavy dudes ins of like robed up and pretty serious not the Maverick shamanic man you know sort of astray outta nowhere person but this were inculcated and educated brahmin one of them took me I was in there get you go get the mantra properly you get reminded of it in case you didn't notice it in the giddy bliss of the hug we're in some sort of garden on the ashram and I looked at me and watched him he was literally like a butterfly out of his hand like it was flying of my god this guy's so holy and when he gave me the mantra he said to me and the material world has got nothing else to give you now Russell the material world can only take from you he made my stomach pull in like I said I felt lower chakra tug of I don't like resisting that yeah were you able to hear it I did he read it my body and and it's only recently maybe five years later laughs whoa no this is a blessing because it means I don't need to go through life in people are gonna approve of me someone's gonna give me fellatio someone's gonna give me a pat on the back or an automobile there's nothing there's nothing to get and I have to continually be reminded of it almost relationship she's a relationship exchange to exchange that there you are not in this car to get something from this driver you're not going on referral podcast to get something from richer like this is I have to continually but that muscle of continuously continuous practice is something you learn in recovery through you know constant surrender repeatedly throughout the day minute by minute hour by hour at times yes we're fortunate aren't we to have learned it in the inlet of obnoxiously obvious form of substance misuse and al-qaeda bloody obvious and because we we had to yeah and actually if we wanted to reenter society what happened to you it was I was pretty much a purist with alcohol I was too afraid of drugs because I knew it would be just way too enticing but booze took me down and you know my story is not the craziest story of all time it's not super rock and roll but it was dark and pathetic and sad there was nothing sexy or romantic about it you know at the end I was drinking you know I would I would drink in the morning vodka tonics in the shower I was working as a lawyer I was sneaking drinks throughout the day and just you know biding time till I could leave and go into a blackout and wake up in strange compromising situations wondering where my car is and what happened and you know the police got involved and there was you know judges and jails and things like that to contend with and family fleeing for the hills until you know I basically you know came to that realization that if I wanted to live I was gonna have to get sober and I went to a rehab in Oregon for a hundred days so you were in you were in treatment for like three months right so you know like that's a that's a longer more extended stay than the usual kind of 28 or 21 day spin cycle in the UK I think it's standard oh is it Russia B yeah although it's not easy to get treatment for now you know then getting harder and harder yeah I went to excuse me a place called focus 12 sadly now closed down due to a lack of funding which was a twelve-step her treatments and it wasn't residential in there so I had to throw in a bed and breakfast run buddies phenomenal atheist man chip summers who was my first mentor in the program and like I went there as a sort of ancillary I didn't see this is like a watershed transitional moment I just thought I'll do this and then I'll get on with my plan to become successful get people off your back yeah that's right that's what I was doing like so I remember I heard someone say recently we should remember that you know that when people are not enthusiastic early in their recovery try to remember how we were like right because I knew now now that I've become a zealous kind of a man I kind of expect it would be very devoted and dedicated in them so irritating listen what's wrong with you I'm speaking to someone today I was a person I care about a lot that's actually as far as I know not using at the moment but she is a person that if she does not walk the line she's [ __ ] you know like in the situation she gets in it's almost like that I sometimes feel it's sort of karmically you know there are certain sort of celebrities and famous people but the problems that come in their life seem sort of kind of low-rent trashy problems you think it's almost like it's almost as if your karmic essential self has not acknowledged how could it you have now ascended to some sort of privileged position like you know tonight in my country with like footballers or whatever people from regular sort of blue color I guess backgrounds but the kind of issues they get in is as if it's somehow ordained like you know the sort of the mess of it all well you know yeah when people won't listen I think what is it what are you resisting what you fight him but I only have to look at myself and the film I resist and fight yeah gonna holding on to that your best friend until it's you know pride from your dying clutch of course you know it's not easy well you talk about and you talk about Alma in in the new book mentors which I enjoyed very much you're a brilliant writer it's it's fantastic and it was that book is different than what I was expecting I thought it was even given the title I was sort of thinking this is gonna be a more straightforward kind of self helpy kind of thing but it's really a narrative that unfolds in an autobiographical sense in which you weave in these people that I've had profound impacts on your life at various stages yes any way that I know how to write prose as it turns out is I which I think it comes from comedy is that if you if I stray too far from authentic personal experience I feel that I'm not in territory that I know well so even when writing about armor or like Bruce Lloyd a therapist that arrived I know Jimmy Marvel a mentor of mine or like Emma as you have said all of the man that teaches me BJJ critically I still have to use it on how how do these influences work on my neuroses now do you know that filmmaker that is called Adam Curtis he's a British filmmaker you'll love his stuff if you've not seen it he like makes it he'd start with century of the self in which he talks about how the the the insights of Freud were used to establish the profession of marketing and PR century of the self you'll love that bit like on the war in Afghanistan it's kind of sort of a postmodern Baudrillard sore take on those kind of the way that narratives appear and a kind of I don't know disingenuous and used to manipulate pays a brilliant a very sort of pop in a way who takes on hard subjects but he's very pop he said that we live in our heads and light so he said that my he says that my right he was kind enough so that my writing style is beneficial rather than relentlessly solipsistic and like we live now continually in the narrative of our mind they're sort of like those are endlessly spiralling dialogue what now what do I do now I'm gonna get laughs no there's no so late and he says like to hear that he said like a bulb Zach or Dickens like a century or so ago they're describing geography and phenomena now he goes everyone lives here in their head in their thoughts you know so like when I also Eve it was so for me the journey I'm continually trying to make is though there's a macro journey of how can how can the unenlightened man become enlightened and then how do i moment to moment when i'm when i reengaged if i want this i want these people to approve of me i want that happen how do i get back you know if i'm startled or so suddenly fearful or suddenly full of desire how do i transition back to it so I'm continually dealing with that voice yeah well it's the hero's journey and there's something about your innate humanity and and and your willingness to be vulnerable in the storytelling matched with like this facility from language that you have that makes it very compelling and then you'll surprisingly kind of zing people every once in a while with you know a paragraph about like here's how you can do this - but it's done in such a way where you don't really feel like you're being preached to in any way because you're caught up in the storytelling itself and thank you in the humanity of it because I don't like being told what to do I've never liked it who does and yet there is a whole massive industry built around these books that are telling people what to do and people love reading them and buying them I wish but I question whether they're effective I think I think people read these books a very small percentage of them take that wisdom and put it into action but I think a lot of people just feel good about buying them and maybe feel a little bit better about reading them and and then it becomes this sort of placebo that you might be right except acebos can be sometimes correct yeah I mean but like you see you've made a transition in your life and it's [ __ ] hard isn't it yeah go right I'm not gonna be I'm going to be fit I am going to could put myself through physical trauma or stress yeah and so when somebody comes to you and says Russell tell me how you know you did this or how do I go from here to there and and what they want is a distilled you know six point plan that they can execute on and life doesn't work that way and it's through the storytelling the humanity that we can connect with something that can live within us that has staying power that resonates that we will remember a year or five or ten years later mmm yeah I think yes no I agree with that I believe that but how to frame it again within the 12 steps which is how I I you know again lucky is robust I feel like it works but that if I'm if I surrender okay that's the first thing if I go alright I do want to change I do not want to have this body I didn't want to have this pure but you know and I have these feelings about my partner I don't to feel like I'm an inadequate father and once I recognize once I come to that point of I've got problem in my life son manageable there am I ready just come to believe that it can be restored to sanity that is possible I like the optimism of the program of the program assumes that it's possible to be happy not like it's not a some sort prata stand we are born to suffer suffering this good work hard flajolet you know because i feel that you know that i can see how that idea enters because the death of self the death of the individual the flagellation the mortification of the flesh the loss of the individual does sound a lot like you know or at a self apart but I like the Bliss of Hinduism I like the Bliss of the Vedas I like the love the voluptuousness the senses I don't want to become passionless I don't think I don't you know when I'm me I like you know you meet in life people sometimes I like the mischievous black dudes that are on your wall back in your house you know why because when they move or that or the the the self-proclaimed enlightened person that just hugs you a little bit too long a bit too much daring and yes more to this than staring and Hawking staring and hockey no part of it you can wake the repo nauseous to take it out into the world right and actually [ __ ] with it that's what's good about that particular book is the way that he's saying oh my god I've been preparing for this my whole life now I'm on this train I'm like these people [ __ ] stink hey guys I have to remind myself yes amateur come on if you can't work on a train how you're gonna work it on the next plane but like he's saying you know I have there amongst if these people have got a bought birth and a death but they've the Sabres be like how did that these principles are challenged in the material world that's why I think we need that fundamental spiritual belief that this we need to somehow have the faith to have the commitment this is not real this is not real and you can see how people you know how that became the kind of illness or Kreuk reduce secularized cribs Christian cultures all right you're heaven the afterlife so the the billionaires can get on with being rich and we just scuttle about in the rubble no no no it's so that someone said to me in like a one of them like I met with a group in New Orleans and this man went to me like he was off to he looked he was such a romantic fellow so beer didn't stained sure and some sort of naval looking hat and heavy and leathery and he went to me lady was off to help the homeless and we were in New Orleans so there was no shortage and he goes it goes the material world this he says this is this is just crumbs don't settle for crumbs I want to be at the banquet to recognize that anything that occurs within this limited bandwidth whether it's a source of Lamborghinis or limitless orgies it's nothing it's taking place on a pinhead you know but they don't have access to some kaleidoscopic experience but does take discipline the Maya your bloody thing it's gorgeous isn't it it is gorgeous a little circuiting you know delicious tasting lie I I agree with you with the optimism of the steps but I also appreciate the matter-of-fact nature of them it's like you know the the you will have a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps not like you might or you know it's possible but like just do these things and you will have this transformation and it doesn't matter how you feel about it or how much you're questioning it and the expansion occurs because look recovery is littered with people that coming you came in as an atheist and now you're this like you know you're ready to start your own religion basically with the occult the acolytes are you know everywhere at this point no I just need to get the right kind of blanket work on that stare yeah and loan cattle and this is uh this is very good for your ego I would imagine oh yeah go for the irony yeah yeah irony how are you how do you you know sort of think about who you are and what you do now like you're doing all these things you're you're you know you stand up these live performances these like one-man shows you're here in town because you're you're doing ballers right like you're acting in this TV show you've got books and you're kind of you know this this sort of person of wisdom at large right on social media how do you balance all of those things and and think about like the choices that you have to make to kind of move forward in this bearing in mind this this commitment to being not attached to results and the feeding of the ego only discipline I try not to live in abstraction I try not to look at I try not to have famous in abstraction and famous like someone else's conception of me so I try not to be involved with it because not again because of because I'm too greedy if I start looking at it then they always leads me somewhere bad looking at the comment always leads me somewhere bad caring and comparing myself to other people always leads me somewhere bad I'm living in Los Angeles I don't have to look very far to see people that are more successful more famous bear looking nicer abdominal muscles and they were generally more unhappy well I I wonder I wonder so like how I with a degree of immediacy whether that's trying to live in the moment by listening or whether it's like you know like I can't believe how fundamentally bloody transformative having a family was I mean I suppose I should have preempted a exist and of obviously in a way but like having those you know having my wife and daughters in my life has necessarily made me present present and like did it matter what's going on I don't spend so much time looking at abstract things or trying to nurture yourself from the outside in some sort of the definitely plainly illusory thing like what someone says on your phone you know like like stay here with them look at them listen to them and when I'm able to do it and I have no wrong so I look rich I always feel slightly fraudulent because busy stuff I'm doing right now I'm doing it right now I'm not like I don't feel any different from when I was a little kid that's why I believe in that recovery ideal I think we're all born with that attacker with that connection to a degree of mmm purity or at least oneness perhaps one this is a better term but like you know I am sometimes holding a beautiful little baby I'm thinking [ __ ] what football you may need my phone wants me and I want phone so how I well how I do it is by like letting go like by not I don't trust anymore the things that I used to warn like various form I'm not gonna allow myself to repackage egoic adulation in some other format I really like you know I always keep pursuing these these these avenues that they're just rife right up for that right excited to tackle the yeah how about starting a religion or becoming this girl I mean there is you know of anything that you could enter into like this is feeding that monster that wasn't caution you know awfully tackle this tendency I've had toward egotism by setting myself up sort of online digital Jesus once and for all I slip it in there but you should see the way I drift around on my live shows or semi in tears like looking at people lovingly out reaching man they follow you down Melrose I'm a comedian oh my god I'm a comedian so like I know how it's all ridiculous it's already it's funny to me it's funny to me and that is I suppose if I can bring anything to this world into this conversation by this world I mean this idea but none of us are ever going to be fulfilled by trying to augment our identities and acquire material and Status attainment through one another like the thing I think I can contribute is by being sincere but funny by by continuing to acknowledge this is ridiculous this is to me this is happening in limitless space then take it too seriously like you know that's what the thing that I'm trying to stay focused on because you know lucky in a world where we've got Eckhart Tolle we've got Tony Robbins with all these people that I saw profound powerful communicators and know how to do this stuff and I think well there's no that you know all it like any of us I suppose if we are authentic and true to ourselves then it's gonna get taken care of mm-hmm yeah well I would consider you one of those powerful communicators I mean as I said earlier like you have this facility for for language and this ability to you know create a narrative and argue your point of view in in a in a pretty remarkable way but when I hear you I often wonder I think this is so easily this can be easily used not just as a weapon but also as a shield like as a mask you know I can hide behind this facility that I have and keep myself safe you might be right I mean I have always done that here are some other methods though that I've got um like I don't look at porn I don't objectify people I'm only I'm in a monogamous relationship I know I can't anything by cheat in people I mean in the sense of like trying to get something like these again it's the program I'm running everything through a program I'm running everything like you know anytime that I feel a spike in my energy fear or desire that destabilizes me you know in a stepped in anytime we are disturbed anytime i disturb i'm checking it with other people so even if i did start a cult it would be a good one because i wouldn't be sleeping with anybody I mean then comes will go wrong when I come up with a system where I have six everyone know and that wasn't in the original brochure are you sure yeah no it's good it's spiritual there's some corollary to the rule that you'll have to come up with I mean most of all I think that's why people like in positions of spiritual authority are celibate because these are powerful powerful energies I got friends that are like a Swami's and like a hug men and shake hands with females because it's these are powerful force these are the forces that carried our material form here their desire to procreate the desire to have space these energies are bigger than individuals but they're little saw what's that beautiful analogy thinking that the egoic self is in charge of the whole self is like a stowaway on a crew these biological energy is released forces this stardust stuff thrusting and [ __ ] me just floating around in there like a little gorgeous Pippin so let's not take that guy too seriously as long as I shut down the avenues that I know that he would explore like can I have a golden throne and all of those sort of things in the Bikram sort of way is that what yeah Vikram he had a big like golden throne that he would sit on at that I'm gonna head legitimately have a golden throne his fleet of Rolls Royces but it all started good just like everything right yeah oh you know or back on as he was then I always you want start series or another yeah I was incredible how do you mean isn't wonderful incrementally the place you can get to right peace and love we're all one all democratic people are free to be who they are sexually we're not going to inhibit anyone's identity and we're gonna come to munch with poison in a salad bar I know because I [ __ ] human but if you shift that aperture over to politics you can make the same argument if you look at whether it's you know Paul Ryan or Barr whoever these people are like what were they like his children what initially motivated them to go into politics I would imagine all of them had some service minded you know aspect yes that got corrupted by you know the egoic beast that takes over and suddenly they find themselves saying things that they know in their heart of hearts they don't actually believe and millions of people are impacted yes rich and also bureaucratic and administrative systems shouldn't be in here dwith power it's just for organization I feel that these systems necessarily have to be curtailed you know that their principal that you know our leaders are trusted servants they do not govern like you know like their very simple principles would like these systems can never be used to bring about more equality they will always sustained themselves I don't pay too much attention and perhaps I should to the particular individuals that are occupying positions of power one because of a conversation over if that Yanis for a Farkas who ran through it so he said that once they only won that election in Greece they said we're not repaying that day it's all been a swindle yeah groove you you know what's that effect I'm paraphrasing but when they had the meetings with the EU they really said that he recognized that even I think is cool about Wolfgang shell by a common problem but that the German Finance Minister he said that man only has the power that that role affords him he has like so that individuals power is irrelevant the system is a self-sustaining thing the people that are seen the persons in the role of President or Chancellor or Prime Minister regardless of the particular inflection of their political affiliations there are sisters systemic restrictions mean that no meaningful change can occur and a meaningful change can occur their primary relationships with economic interests that exist above the level of democracy we all know that that's why there's a rising populism at the moment which is being ludicrously and ironically ridden primarily by the riot which will further fortify those interests so but populism in itself I don't think is a bad thing people becoming popularly interested in politics people thinking I can't get involved in this people really the more people have direct control over the things that impact their lives they're better kind of anarchism couldn't communities governed and controlled by the people that live within them schools government controlled by the people that use in hospitals government control alone this is of course it needs to be some I suppose it needs to be some kind of centrist systems people tell me armies roads police forces etc but I feel that the principle should be minimized decentralized community oriented populist I think so utopian do you do you think here's what I'm curious about because I've listened to you talk about this stuff quite a bit and and there's so much truth and wisdom and so many of these things that you say and yet I find myself saying yeah but that's that's not gonna happen is that my pessimism is this reality and how much of this do you actually believe in terms of its possibility and evolution or are you holding this line way out on the edge so that we can have these conversations and open up you know the possibility to just even begin to entertain them Joseph Campbell said nothing's ever changed he said you know like the great master of comparing myths and look you know that power preserves itself leaders behave our leaders behave um I do believe in it because I feel that feudalism transitioned to capitalism and that we have not exhausted the possible models for organizing systems and this is another very simple basic tool and perhaps these are the only ones I can understand is when those of us that think that the state of affairs is lamentable and wrong and we would like to change it look for a moment is that are there any institutions or individuals that would regard the system as it currently stands as beneficial and fortuitous yes well then that's why it's like that it's not for therefore some institutions and individuals it's not problem that it is this way and I don't believe in conspiracy in the sense of internal Evelynn cabal's but I just feel that there are sort of sustaining systems and interests that won't be broken unless there is a reasonable opposition and that reasonable opposition can only come from I suppose organization rejection with them do you have do you have a sense that that we can change these systems though at least in the u.s. yes I do feel that I do feel that because I feel like then you feel that with the current political situation that there it that there is a bit of a an anomaly you know that's an odd thing that happened Trump becoming president like that you know sort of us I believe that but I also think that's dangerous thinking and I think that that that because thinking that or professing that is to kind of deny the perspective of so many people that empowered him to take office I would never be little or dismiss that people that have reverted to nationally F know nationalistic and patriotic and patriarchy or even if not explicitly so ideologies because what the grat light I feel like that it's naive even to look how can you divorce Trump from Obama that was at one minute Obama was president one minute later Trump was president so there's an obvious relationship and corollary and prior to that these things are hot like they are happening in relationship with one another and the feelings of I feel this all things that happen on the Material Plane are a reflection of subtler energies that are taking place in the consciousness and being of individuals and these these energies become systemized if enough people feel angry and antagonized then they will respond to beacons or that's what honest a corroborate or retract that energy and i understand why people are angry I recognize why people are angry I think it's they're not mad they're right the neoliberalism abandoned the very people that it was supposed to be protecting the working-class people of the you know because this is happening everybody much is happening in America yeah they've been looked over they have been unheard and their lives have not improved their the quality of their lives have declined and there's a sense of desperation there you know and that's gonna manifest in you know all kinds of unpredictable things that we're now seeing happening I have great compassion for that but I think it is you know yes the material world is a reflection of our consciousness and I feel like right now we're in it a very interesting moment in which where I look within my you know admitted bubble I see a profound expansion in awareness and consciousness you know because I surround myself with those kinds of people I suppose but also I think even peering outside of that because of look you know the internet and social media there's a lot of problems with that but it allows you know these kinds of messages to profligate in a way that they couldn't before and I think we are seeing a lot of people waking up to these kinds of ideas the kind of ideas that you're talking about at the same time there is an equal if not stronger opposition force it's like dark and light it is joseph campbell like these are it's like star wars that's happening now and it's a race to the finish with the the ticking clock meaning like the environmental crisis that we're facing at the moment yes the in fact that we are individuals it's an attractive argument because we really do seem like we are individuals wrapped in bags of skin it's hard to imagine that it is perhaps more important and inverted commas more true that we are one that the consciousness that you experience in the consciousness that experience and the consciousness all of us in this room our experiencing is the same phenomena merely disrupted by its more superficial what I say apparel like that we're the same we are one only it's easy to tell people you that your interests are most important look after yourself look after your most immediate family well this is the Gestalt of modern Western society does that mean the gets dull like this this is the the momentum and like everything is organized around that very principle and there's a tremendous amount of momentum behind it that's all pushing us forward in a manner in which we're not even consciously aware of it and we certainly don't question it there's some Native American activists I think he might being called Russell made or something I think he like ludicrously actually was in last of the mohicans as an actor and consultant but you agree out there radical activist and he said like you know there seems to be an assumption from people on the left that we the native people of this land should form a natural affiliation with the Marxists he goes but faith as he says Marxism and capitalism these are different sides of the same coin both assume that the land is something to be plundered both assumed and industrialized and they're fun post-industrial society both of us are sort of both of those systems are resource based so we look at things from a very very narrow perspective even when we consider ourselves to be considering a broad gamut of political ideas it's a very very narrow spatter spectrum in the same way I would argue that our sensory spectrum is narrow and limited but like we know we're not going to start questioning whether or not there are different entities floating about and fail or different vibrational frequencies and forces communicate of us continually we can't operate on there so I'm sure we got get some dinner we've got to get to bed we've gotta get laid these are the things that seem most important except it isn't working and it won't work for people to elect right-wing populist leaders we are like CS Lewis brilliantly argues in his book Mere Christianity that the the case for God is not made externally through theology but is made in our own belly that we know when we've behaved badly we know we were doing something wrong and he denies that these are acculturated the ideas that we've been talking don't do that do as you will be done by because he says there is no culture in the world where pity goes there's cultures where a man may take one wife and cultures where a man may take five wives but there is no culture where a man is applauded for running away in battle but there there is a sense of good within us but we're so disconnected from who we are when when your priority is the pursuit of individual grandeur and material accumulation and status at that you know at the forsaking of community and intimacy and connection and you know service and all of these ideas you become almost disassociated with that belly that's telling you you you have gone astray and so that signal isn't even connecting yes that's right I mean that is what's happened right so that's the beauty and the blessing of being a drug addict or an alcoholic because you had this intervening force that precipitated the crisis that accelerated it and forced us to confront it but I think most people are experiencing a low-grade version of that that they can ride out their entire life without ever having to confront it because they're scrolling and they're on Netflix and they're doing whatever they're [ __ ] thinking about your promotion or the next car that they're gonna yes yes I've done all of these things today and I have to I've looked at Netflix but what what you know so what but what David Lynch I was talking to you have his book yeah I talked to him yesterday he very he's perspective seems to me I wouldn't claim to speak on behalf of David baby bloody Linda can even leave himself molnon and dry for the [ __ ] that guy by the bins but like he instruct about minds for me please I just saw a finger like I can't deconstructed with language I just look at what these faith is doing and see if I can write that on some level but like he thinks just meditate just meditate teach more people to meditate get people meditating connect people spiritually don't worry about the admin there so trust with that yeah a track that you will go that that that will then empower somebody to go on their own journey and then ultimately they'll be able to hear that that's CS Lewis signal in their belly yeah I think we got to do that I mean I don't know that scene I like that though I like the idea of give people the resource of meditation give people the resource of the 12 steps help it like what is positive it seems to me in cousin and now that I'm this face it middle-aged that the younger people appear to be Knology and and rejecting the idea that they are but their primary means for fulfillment is gonna be economic and material it doesn't seems like people are like that is a huge seismic shift in our culture and I find great comfort in that how that will play out remains to be seen but it's super interesting and it's something I haven't seen in my whole life no like you'll kid you've got some case I've been swimming Superboy's the other twenty three and what I know are they saying they're amazing yeah and they're pursuing their dreams their artists their you know look they they have to meet their obligations but they're certainly not you know pursuing the dollar yes that's not what's igniting their spirit yes I think it's possible I think it's possible you know we forget that this that in this young country of yours just fifty years ago there was so much social unrest and disruption and of course the systems that govern were able to relocate that disruptive energy within its accepted framework the we can do what we want of the 60s becoming the I can do what I want of the 80s but it's such a short time ago is such a short time ago it's the same with this 12-step system only seventy eight years ago different ideas are bleeding into culture and even what we're doing with these very these intellectual P relations of our [ __ ] endless podcasts we are giving people access to ideas many concepts just so many on there why don't we just like we're gonna withhold podcasts for just a couple of weeks give you some [ __ ] time to get on and meditate do something valuable yeah sorry go ahead well I'm saying that the least so like if I was 16 now obviously the my primary use of the internet would be masturbating but I'd like to think that meets that I would be coming across podcast where people are talking about ideas they're just you know and I was a school people talk about this kind of stuff is like you as magic for free in your hand you would have axed access to all of these kinds of conversations and how would that have shaped your thinking and the decisions that you made as a young person I mean I don't know I was drunk and loaded the whole time so probably not but for a lot of people you know especially people who don't have access to higher education it's an incredible resource yes and I don't think we really fully understand just how dramatic this shift in how we process information and receive it is having on people I feel like what we talked about about 5 min ago rich is important because if there is some limitless force expressing itself as consciousness and that was preceded all matter anything couldn't look after itself have you ever heard like Terence Mckenna talk very so it's like whatever it is the you know you go the truth the revolution it won't be tacky it won't be phony it won't be do drab like in it like it's obvious like that this thing is we're talking about great power great great power that the you know that the sages and the Rishi's are talking about that Christ is talking about this is not some flimsy little finger no will it be able to go up against the Republican Party if it can't if it doesn't have the priapism and the virility and the power to overcome that if it doesn't have the power to reach people where they need to be reached then it wasn't the truth anyway so we don't need to concern ourselves of autonomy we didn't need to open ourselves to in my language God allow God to come through and we'll be laughing it goes back to what you were saying about Shakespeare and the 12 steps the robustness of truth to Wistia and the countervailing forces of darkness yeah trust that we need not worry because truth will prevail due to its robust nature because cut atom cuts again like he said like you know that we use metaphors I'm thinking me uncle and Foucault call this a pistol around we're of so we use metaphors like you know the metaphor that we were a bit machine like came about in the time in the Victorian age when in that of industrialization he said the romantics during the Romantic Age there the idea was that nature is wild and crazy and powerful and now we're all [ __ ] male what we gonna do you know that mountains that surround us now these are powerful things powerful energies and I feel that if we can attune to that if we can just allow that you know this will make a difference I'm not suggesting that we've become somehow passive I imagine that it will be kind of active I'm very interested in the body and becoming engaged in the buttocks it's something I had left much too [ __ ] light and need to learn about as a matter of fact yeah well I want to talk to you a little bit about that but I can't let that last thing go I think that I think that that uh we have plenty of room for four four no not in a challenging way just to elaborate on it I'm Jason Leslie we need more awe and Wonder and I think rationalism has left us deposited into this space where we do look at those mountains and we think well that's just because these atoms have aggregated in a certain way to create this thing and there's an arrogance and hubris around what we can know and what we do know to the to say to the extent that we believe that we're capable of knowing everything and that everything can be reduced to an algorithm or a physical law yes and my experience defies that but to speak to that publicly is to be maligned possibly could be I suspect a physicist Brian Cox who I really really like actually but he's a you know he says he wouldn't scrum self as an atheist but he didn't think there's a God and he thinks that everything can be understood rationally so you know and I like him I'm not I'm just using this as an example I tried to say look when people said the earth was flat they actually fall here when people thought that the summer around the earth they actually fought it when like we keep discovering more and more deeper and deeper and deeper truths none of us it's very hard to speculate or hold what these great episteme Accor histo melodical shifts will be we don't know what we don't know when and it's so obvious to me that as there are limitations to what we can see in here because of the limits of the instruments through which we receive that information that the limits of the instruments of receiving information are not the limits of the information if space is infinite knowledge is infinite wisdom is infinite beingness itself is infinite so how I suppose that pertains to the way that man organized is the man organized their systems mankind organize their systems is well what seems to be prevailing what is universal what is perennial and what the occur occurs throughout our philosophies love kindness unity to given us oneness these things lo these things must find their way into the way we organize society and when it's the opposite of that [ __ ] you survival of the fittest and mangling of that idea because it came around you know that because Darwinism occurred at the same time as economic and the technological ideas that it was convenient to sort focus on the idea that things would take care of themselves don't where if people are starving in the gutter is some sort of some force some organizing force is taking care of that yeah well of course the information is infinite our ability to perceive and comprehend it is not and the hubris comes in with this sense that we we we are equipped with all the facilities to understand everything and yet we're just you know one millimeter more evolved from the ape you know and whatever preceded that right which are incapable of understanding things that we can so you know why not consider the possibility that without some extra frontal lobe on our brain that there's all kinds of things happening then right in this room that would fundamentally change how we see everything and yet we're incapable fathoming it yes this seems correct to me and that rare rationalism it bloody good to understand engineering good to understand material good to understand science to organize things but to allow it to become the preeminent philosophical perspective is dangerous because it excludes the unknowable and the unknowable is almost everything so I feel that and that's terrifying and alright as well you know like sometimes that you think of just to fall backwards into death maybe there'll be some relief in it to fall backwards to drown in it to drown in there the kinds of vibrant nothingness I don't know no no I'm scared nothingness well let's talk about the body stuff so you finally you finally made this leap to veganism lots of people were waiting for you to do that it's been a long time it's been a long time coming cuz that's what happened [ __ ] documentary that you're in actually I watched that Kip Anderson's bloody what the hell what the hell yeah unlike itself chimed so neatly with my belief about how the world operates off of our [ __ ] it because like I've always loved animals you know and I've always cared to a degree about my health but when added so that was oh my god is a ruse this kook eruption behind this then just hit your button you were primed for that right yes ready for that is that Rogan having tried to talk you out of it he said that didn't he that there was a lot of it so and of course this counter arguments or whatever but I don't see some powerful vegan lobbying forces like around Washington right that was the fallacy in his argument I mean the powerful broccoli Lobby that once yeah yeah that's not what's going on no I mean look if you wanna if you want up you know poke holes you're gonna always be able to find some study that's gonna allow you to poke holes but I think there's a lot of wisdom in that movie and I'm glad that it compelled you yes yeah and I think it's consistent with your spiritual principles I would imagine that there's a lightness and you know a sense of alignment that comes with that yeah it's made me feel I think I like I feel healthier it's also making me I am a person that needs to bring consciousness to everything because otherwise I'd go unconscious so it's very good to know Beatrice khojali it's very good to have to consider what you're putting in your mouth because of Reimer I wouldn't think twice straight in there but my eleven month old daughter oral everything straight in the road is narrower though it's like this thing like the vegan revs narrower well it just life dude as somebody who's you know on the recovery path it's sort of an adage that gets thrown around and it's so true it's like oh I got to give up drugs I can't like you know I can't [ __ ] around anymore oh I can't gamble I can't net what I can t eat like what I want to eat any it's like it just consistently gets narrower and narrower and narrower but my experience is that expansion comes with the letting go and I've learned to not be afraid of those things and you know on paper it looks like your life is becoming more restrictive and curtailed and restrained but the emotional mental spiritual experience of that is quite the opposite yes we've been taught that freedom is freedom to pursue our desires but true freedom is freedom from our desires the desires is not like this do that we're not because we're an additive Society it's all about adding adding accumulating yes but the piece comes with the removing I wonder how we will cope when sacrifice becomes part of it did you see that Malcolm Gladwell wrote about that when the civil rights movement was formed around tight bonds that people were when than people in universities in the South were coming together like demand equality or wherever these relationships were strong people were occupying buildings together movements that take place you know invisibly across sort of telecommunications networks are unlikely to be as tight initially I suppose that we do that that suggests that we do need to communicate directly that we need to see each other's eyes that we need to come together if we're going to bring about meaningful change that we're going to like again a lot this is really influential thing I talk about all the time where prior to Indian independence Gandhi said what's the point of us getting rid of the British if we just replicate the systems that they use it's just us doing it and that that is what happened he said the India is a country of seventy thousand villages all of these villages should be fully autonomous exempted matters affecting other villages you know we should be here lab built on crafts and trade because we have to get let go of our comforts we're obsessed with comfort and gadgetry he said in the boys you know love them what would he have made of the phones knows it like so and it's very hard to convince it but like I'm happier when I'm not continually checking the phone I'm happier when I'm not obsessing when I'm not placing like look the ultimate destination point is clear it's written in probably 9th in the books on your table is you the whole self has to go as well you know that's when it ends is when you've let go of the belief that you're even an individual person and that connection with other human beings provides the answers that you've been seeking your whole life through other avenues then you've been taught are the answer and turn out to be these false prophets and two years and two rationally underwrite that because it would seem because they're in relationship with other people that is the verification of oneness if I put your happiness above my happiness is like I am on some practical level recognizing why is why is the concept of oneness so difficult why can't we be like bees and have this hive mentality where we just fully understand the universality of our conscious experience I think too much no sensuality haven't we yeah senses are very seductive I remember when I was a very sensual person it was all I did wanted to do all day long and I still liked it I still I like pleasure and that little bit of cheese your wife give me but like whenever like when I taste it it's like oh good this is gonna have to think of some wire to be nice oh yes I don't actually like this I'm gonna eat all this push this into my ears and my [ __ ] thing never end no limits so why why I'm sorry about what I did to become more fit and have for this body well you're doing a mean and strong what do you do you look around though time is run all the time run ride my bike swim I don't know I don't do Brazilian Jujitsu though that would just destroy me well maybe I should maybe I should try I would not be good at that I don't think why why wouldn't you I anything that involves coordination I can I can like run but you know it's tough but you feel good on the vegan diet I feel good on yeah I've been doing the BJJ I want to say this to you like yeah do the BJJ I love him but when I like um I love it I'm not good at it you know I'm learning I'm no I don't tell myself negative things little Russell needs encouragement and love I'm learning I'm learning um I like today went out like my wife was putting a new car seat in the car was the one that's in there no no no it's not comfortable know that two-year-old she's got she's got some specific tastes I thought I'm gonna say to each rolls how sometimes how detached I feel from my body my wife he's active she is of the earth she knows how to be she knows how to do things thank [ __ ] it was I'm like some gaseous little poet just floating around at commentating you know where she picks up that car seat she gets it now if you leave me to put a car seat in top the top tether strap into the buckle loop I look to it but that's not how you're wired you know she grounds you but you can you know show the vision yeah exactly like you need both of that right yeah we know you bet you met Julie you can see there's a similar kind of like yin-yang dynamic yeah what is it with you guys I mean I'm much more grounded in practical and rational and she you know she's you know an ethereal being right you know and she allows me to expand my my not only my perspective but my sense of what's possible she'll say why don't you look at it from this perspective and something I never would have thought of and a sense of belief like a support and a belief in a different reality that she held for us we've been together for a very long time yeah we've gone through a lot and when we met we were living completely different lives but she held this that I could not have seen myself so you and you and you I think you I would imagine I'm projecting completely but that you fulfill that role in your own relationship yes same actually I mean in the sense of a vision as in imagining and dreaming new spaces yes but it was my wife we met when like in herself 11 12 years ago and she knew that we were meant to be together and I knew I had to try and set world records for promiscuity how did you how did you overcome that like did you just acquiesce over time or what was that process like for you actually wasn't the promiscuity ultimately that was problematic but it was more difficult co-dependent relationships with inappropriate partners like in my case just people that I wasn't like I was very attracted to there's a wonderful Robert Johnson he's a Jungian analyst who breaks down myths and uses them as relationship tools he wrote one called he one called she one call we and like her he uses the Arthurian legend of Kristen and his older to break down this is a lovely bit of analysis actually but the chivalric tradition of knights in that was to that the knight would fight for the honor of a woman and at least that these tales are written in mythic language when we translate them literally that's why you know when people talk about Disney thieriot staff it seeps down in every aspect of our culture and how we think about yes the male and female is enough sin in a fairy tale not suggesting in the Disney version I don't know what objectives they have over there and that crazy castle but like in original fairy stories their female is an aspect of that with it well as in dreams as in folk tales the individual the sovereign the king is the you know the seat within this self and they're like so in this Tristan and there's old and Miffy bred like he breaks down the chivalric tradition when men were knights would fight for the honor of the princess or whatever knowing that they would never be attained because there are some icon of the divine and the unattainable we somehow used that motif if for the foundation of romantic love and like if you look at sort of romantic or romantic poetry romantic films so this yearning this earning that has no relationship to praxis you have never let how are we going to live this in the myth of Tristan and this older there like he then Tristan the night falls in love with as older who he was meant to go and fetch from an island for the king and as old there is an ethereal magical creature he came from an island you have to get across the water to bring her back and none of these people are actual females or males their mythic archetypes so like you know and he's in love of her but he's not met you can't be with that magical person but when he meets her what's her name his older the white hands if she's a sister of a kinsman if he is these fighting you know but alongside and she you know he talks about in the myth that she's in the furnace she's doing stuff with firewood and that he can't be with her he can't be earth because him we are looking sometimes for the other person in our relationship to be an emblem of the divine and they are flawed fallible people but sometimes you know initially with that rush of early love is so intoxicating isn't it wonderful when you do when that you experience that you know when I watching the film I felt kata to be 16 18 20 whatever again and to feel that delirium of all this [ __ ] person they are God to me they are good on me even better if they're broken oh yes then we can really get in really destroy ourselves rollercoaster ride well I after a few relationships like that like after sort of exiting one I felt like was to Jimmy a mentor said I'd like Lee goes you can't keep doing that next time you see the sign pointing in the direction of their glamorous amazing relationship maybe don't go that way it's so hard though oh yeah I mean it's so very alluring the flesh is alluring and like in it that you know that we don't good we are physical people with nothing wrong with her you know unto Caesar what is Caesar's and all that there's nothing wrong with the bodies in the world and but you'd knock down that door enough time I mean you know you know what that avails you yeah and when I reconnected with my wife I felt like oh my god I've been using totally the wrong metric was it what do you mean reconnected you had known her previous yeah we known each other for 11 years we went out when I was about my early thirties and she was like 20 maybe she was even 19 but that sounds worse isn't it but but anyway like so then I was went off to pursue the record and then like and you know when we got back like we went on sort of one day and on the first day is that also you and she's like you know I'm ready to be a parent yeah me too and that was you know like from then on we sort of took it's relatively slowly still but I think that's only four years ago and we're married and we've got two children and I'm like I'm at peace I know like the realness of it the earth Ness of it I'm no longer looking to externally acquire happiness so to what do you attribute that shift the program the program the bit Billy because I've known that that could have happened at any point you know as Nonna for 10 years but I just wasn't ready to see that I wasn't ready to let go of the belief that no no I've you know I want to live this kind of life I want to be this kind of person and it's odd actually because there is a real superficiality to that sort of romantic and expressive and abundant love in that when those relationship ended I was quite abled for some well ok because it was something about it there was a construct it was taking place in my consciousness primarily this relationship was very very very deep very EFT and real like this is a person that I wouldn't want to be without you know so and so I I'd not surrendered to that before yeah and for years now yeah yeah it's good it's a relief it's nice to think that there is nothing like I do it's nice to have practices I suppose you know as far as the institution of marriage and coupling and stuff I suppose it works in that it's beautiful to feel you know that idea of like they're here I am here that's seeing I but my little daughter says I sit in my seat I sit in my seat I am here I'm not over there I'm not looking over there for something else there isn't something a magical thing no other agenda being present and in it but also with enough awareness and personal development to understand that you know you're not looking to this partner to complete you and that's your own personal journey that's your connection with your higher power and your your you know spiritual interior self and your relationship to spirituality in general right that that can't be solved through relationship with another human being no no I think that is the you know crux of of suffering for a lot of people it's good to have that it's good for to have some principles of like you know so next time I find myself going Laura will you do this why didn't you do that I want this like the tale that's that thing that's never gonna work you're doing again and every time I sell it to myself as year but though this time I am actually right really my relationship with other people is an opportunity to be of service it's not an opportunity to be served that's yeah I have to maintain do you have resistance to physical labor and work to being in the body you know cuz if you're doing all these [ __ ] jumping around swimming cycling swimming across things running like for you is easy is it to go into that you don't think of I can't be bothered well there are late there are days that I don't want to do it but but in general it's it's my joy it's what I prefer to do but that doesn't mean that I want to go and dig ditches and do a bunch of errands and all the other kind of [ __ ] you know because for me those pursuits like being in nature with your you know just you and your breath and your your heart beating in your chest and the quietude is that's you know it's not meditation but it is a spiritual practice for me and yeah it's exercise and all of that kind of thing it's fitness but really it's a it's a it's a means for me to more deeply connect with who I am and to wrestle with those you know age-old questions about identity and purpose and connection and I finally I find many answers through that practice I remember as long as it's not a replacement for recovery rowing proper you know which is that's where I get into trouble it can be part of step 11 it can be part of contact but it can yeah yeah I agree with you I agree with you so what you have moments where you are sort of at one you find yourself definitely and I wouldn't say like some people say oh that's my meditation like no it's not meditation is meditation if that's a very specific thing there are meditative aspects to it you know you can call it an active meditation but qualitatively it's not meditation but it is a it is a it's it's an it's a practice that's more than just physical I would say yes yes because at least lines just I think when we are dharmically connected those lines perhaps begin to disappear between physical action implicit or all things can become worship I agree with you that meditation should be practiced sans steel with your eyes shut because when you say all my meditation is right riding a bike or something or listening watching the TV you know you're like you're not being confronted with what it is like to observe and let go of the thinking mind correct no and it's a return to the macro point of the way that we organized societies perhaps that happens but perhaps society is organized in the manner that it is because not enough people have a sense of the sacred and divine we're not cultivating that relationship because those individuals we're not having a meditative or transcendent experience and no one nobody knows how to practice these principles in all their affairs no one knows how to live that because they are only thinking yeah that is certainly correct and I think that goes hand-in-hand with kind of the the the downfall of organized religion and with all its problems there you know was an aspect of that that was served through those institutions that doesn't exist to the extent that it once did and so we have this vacuum it's very interesting I I listen to a podcast just last night with Ezra Klein who's a political pundit and David Brooks you know the political journalist David Brooks is like a conservative journalist and he was talking about it was fascinating because he was this very subject how he had become this workaholic a very successful well-regarded you know person in the space of political journalism at the very highest level and the vacuum in his life that had created because he didn't value connection and relationships because he couldn't be bothered because it was always inconvenient and he couldn't rationalize the the time investment that it required and the kind of existential spiritual crisis that it provoked in a most unlikely you know character and this journey that he goes on and he just wrote this book about it and I just found it to be like it's one thing for you and I to talk about these sort of things but to have that you know in the costuming of somebody that you would not expect I think carries a certain powerful resonance with it because a guy like that is able to speak to a certain sector of the population that perhaps is disinterested in what Russell Brand has to say that Paul so yes the poor fools out there in the wasteland in the wilderness of no program no I agree with you that it is appealing and attractive takers because I suppose it verifies our sense of truth to hear that someone that's devoted themselves to conservative outlook a political outlook and and and the openness to I mean part of that evolution was his ability to change his mind you know which i think is we're in an epidemic right now of being so calcified around our ideas because they threatened our identity and that's something that you know must remain unshakeable to entertain the alternative is terrifying for a lot of people and I think it keeps us stuck in these conversations that are you know kind of driving culture off a cliff in a certain way because we can't have nuanced dialogue don't you want to get people on your podcasts that are like outrageous folk you know I mean I sort of do and I sort of don't I don't see how as people go you share to you don't give them oxygen because I sometimes nearly did raiga scared I mean I think there is it's it's like would you have Alex Jones on your podcast I saw you would like right-click see I probably wouldn't cuz I understand sort of add or something about Alex Jones but there's something about him he's a boolean he's gone wrong I kind of like it like you know in like that one him on Rogan at Tyler's I couldn't I got like a half an hour into it and I couldn't I couldn't finish it because it was so bananas yeah because he's out there isn't and I thought I've met Alex a couple of times and I suppose I only part company when this is the thing I'm trying to do it's like that if you have a spiritual life it is for you it's not something that you would inflict a lot of people like it your spiritual life is his must be real life they shouldn't [ __ ] each other how can I help you this is what I'm gonna do to be okay with the world there's only when people start to get caught up in you know the impulse the patriotism is merely a reappropriation tribal impulse that's inhered within human beings necessarily for us to socialise that's being reappropriation attached to abstract ideas in order to control a population and it gets to the point where people aren't willing to see there is no England there is no America there is no France or blood completely [ __ ] made up some people gay but you know like a century ago you know young Americans and young English people were being asked to give their lives away so no wonder like and now people are I don't want him [ __ ] coming over here living here spilling our jobs I've been generation deep told that this is real kill for it fight for it it's real it's definitely not an abstract concept made-up resource from the same principles of the religion that we have believed that we've progressed beyond believing in it like as a template is identical Godhead an inside group and an outside group no so but how I like and I feel like you know I don't know if I wouldn't like you know I I think that there might be more value or like eg I had Candice Owens on the podcast and like and I found it to be absolutely adorable that's it that was a I listen to that and I found it fascinating because I completely disagree with almost everything she's about and yet she was rather delightful in that conversation with you and you had kind of a really fun banter and I think it is important to have conversations you know with people that you disagree with like this is the self upon this wound you have right now if we stay polarized is the tension of it is not good after the podcast finish there's a bit where she went and shows what do you think about immigration Russell when I was like well you know I think we should be inclusive yeah I know what you think let's just let everybody in and that's just march around and skip around again she didn't even like she's being so self parodic but I spoke to Henry Giroux and Brad Evans they're much more kind of brilliant post-structuralist left-leaning philosophers and they were like don't be seduced by the individual charm of people because that's often used there's a kind of lubricant that's like you know wacky I mean they're very they're very aware of it and this is this is what scares me because you know fundamentally like I'm a pathological people pleaser my biggest goal is when Russell leaves here I want him to like me you know or I want my guests you know what I mean the people I have to be like yes well I navigate the world helping out with this sweet HOD cast toast that makes you right for manipulation you know what I mean if you have a charismatic person sitting across from you who represents a point of view that is something you disagree with it's very easy for me to become you know swayed by their personality character defect of wanting to feel connected to another human being I do you want to feel connected to other human beings I do I do but like I feel like that if people like you can track it though rich in it like you'd like a foothold on that's mad that's great as soon as they start saying these people shouldn't be allowed to do that what if it happens an hour later without realization right well you gotta know how to trace are they saying so racist yet but I mean you're right they're so nice they brought cookies I know I loved them like are they are quite nice how about have you ever I keep doing around this and probably shinai sort of watch Steve Bannon on the internet and do it an address the Oxford Union because if alright this is that Steve Bannon I've heard about how bad is let's watch him on the Oxford Union he can I mean it was he's almost as a piece of theater you should watch it he arrives in a rain spat Mac you can hear the protesters in Oxford like like Charlie came out here get him out of there he's off comes in like sort of gumshoe detective in it like it just he goes and like he for a ban our he didn't anything I disagree if he talks about the financial crash the implications of it the corruption the relations between the financial industry and Washington he doesn't at any point go and that's why this group of people should be excluded or these people when he doesn't talk about religions or races or recommend or a sex or a economic classes all in today's elites and he's saying and any said that one thing that I really agreed with you know populism is the future all that's being decided is whether it's left-wing or right-wing populism and the only thing that we're debating right now like so and and I would challenge people to watch that because obviously I watch it were in the perspective of I don't like instinctively I don't agree with people that are condemning of other people on the basis of some sort of ethnic or external data because I think people my deepest belief is people are all the same but like so forth but for me that challenge is a bit of a progressive lefty type of person is to be tolerant and willing to engage in dialogue with people that are to look for what is what is it that I agree with you know the Donald Trump or Tony Tommy Robinson in my country or well you know what is he I agree with what is it that I can share with them you know I feel like I've not been bold enough to put that into practice because I can't be asked with the [ __ ] hex give them a platform you're giving them oxygen well yeah because everything is so heightened right now the sort of social price that you pay for taking that risk isn't worth it for most people you know and I think there's a chilling effect on that but it is interesting that you as a you know progressive liberal myself as well you know social justice warrior you know to entertain the ideas of Steve Bennett and go maybe there's an idea there or two that I should think about entertained when I hear that I see somebody who has you know kind of transcended this former personality like the guy who was doing the truths back in the day I probably wouldn't have had that kind of perspective but one of the things you said at the outset here was like I don't you know you're kind of past getting caught up in the vicissitudes of the daily political discourse because these are systemic and they're not based on you know we can't get caught up in the personalities that are driving them that option that's well thanks that arch exponent of the neo liberal experiment who along with Clinton Bill Clinton and took it to the point where with inverted commas ordinary working people no longer feel represented by a left-of-center politics Tony Blair see it was one of his famous Maxim's while still shadow home secretary before you know elected to government was tough on crime tough on the causes of crime and I feel that you can apply that tough on racism tough on the causes of racism what's causing this racism all these people feel disenfranchised and that they're no included in society how are we gonna stop them from being racist well I suppose they're gonna have to feel that their life is meaningful and they're incorporated up inconvenient I feel like you know like I think when one of my mates so I said um you can't cure height with more hey he's always gotta be lovely it's always gotta be you've got to keep loving them I think that's a beautiful place to stop I would like to talk to you for like two more hours but your publicist will assess now can I promote these things I must oh my gosh what happens is they come back and they go you didn't promote those things do you promote that book if I did and I read it and I loved it I think you know it's it's it's it's a short easy read too short and easy what you don't want to say he'll Mentors I think it's uh I don't know I like what you just said that's been promoted very successfully now luminary is the other thing because they're paying for the publicist do Maneri so there is luminary so you I am honor you've you've migrated completely over to luminary now on the 24 yeah that's right if you sign up through this link you can have under the skin for free for another three months but on the premium content straw right of it so free months three months for free and and then after that it goes behind a little bit yes five equate seeks quit for those that don't know luminary is a new company that sort of trying to be I guess for a lack of a better phrase in the Netflix of podcast names right I think that's a good thing recruited a number of high-profile folks like yourself - yeah create for for them they've given us money now what like happen was is on my podcast yesterday it's not been out yet but about Lena Dunham who's just immensely lovely lovely and cara cara mo out of queer eyeing it caused them to don't live now yeah that one's already out right is there beaufort luminary that's why I mentioned I mean Lena Dunham Quran mo I think Trevor Noah he ain't been on the show yet but what I'm saying is is that I've now promoted luminary and no wonder that isn't just being promoted and I'm doing live shows are you gonna I feel like I me and my wife should come around your house but that's not how invites work is it you don't save me and my wife should come around right now your I you're welcome to come by cook for you would yeah because I think like your wife I think like it and what's the other thing I'm doing these live shows yeah I came in Los Angeles I think you would like them and I think your wife would like do you wanna wonder last soon right that's right yeah when do with this podcast feed live I don't know probably not for a little bit though what do you do store much keep these little go running across a [ __ ] amount in all right hours find God sneering at a crack in a rock I'm saying everything's one back down from the mountain cut it out right away pointless June 9 mark in the retirement people pleaser in me will have this up by tonight oh they're interesting that we've just spoke about nothing but God and get rid of the material world back geez is that at the end of the podcast right now the material world is real go out and buy this [ __ ] material right now we should properly say what's up to Stephen and David Flynn because they're the ones that introduced here so they're in that book uh I know I love that they got a shout out shout out in the book I was very taken with him what I liked about them lads was I like I have to learn I had a I like versions of maleness that I feel like all that I can role model them and they were very so very male but so soft generous and sweet and sort of loving but you know that's but I very nearly will allow myself to jump off of a button Peninsula because I know I I know that I've jumped off of you've been there I have of course is that what you did with them when in Ireland I've done a couple yeah I mean I've spent a lot of time with those guys the cynic in me did you find this like the cynic in me is like they can't be like this all the time like what's that what's it like when I wasted dogs yeah I want to see that me watch me mess but I mean I don't think I think it's there I think they have transcended the dark side I didn't see any dot yes I was studying them I couldn't even work out like we went around me my wife and kids we went around like this some house of there seems like a farm and people that would make them like this a little vegan cheese yeah it was little big a nice Pig so lovely and look he one of them Stephen a think had his top off they way I had their top off the whole time of course the top of this is my wife rock against about the car and he's like oh job me to carry that baby and I thought yeah he had that baby for so long too long in my opinion maybe an hour and a half of having a baby wasn't it have a baby pressed against you too much baby did he do handstands with the baby oh man another thing that was [ __ ] amazing is that done podcast with him and this rather than that strong do you remember I texted you and I was like I can't believe you got them to sit still for five minutes that was a challenge and they weren't still immediately before it ran not Swami is it down like he's also mentioned in Romans but he's holy that's like disciple who's proper path chosen you run the Harry Krishna movement which let me to get in no slouches them they've got some power those dudes so like radhanath swami like you see him he wanted people who make you bit hot cuz of like he's lee no he's staring there there's some serious staring happening baby brilliant with the bag of Akio he's switched on full-on Swami when you go see him in India each temple they're frying themselves these feet you know like literally prostrate on the floor like that for while I'm lying down face down not kneel before Zod as Zod suggested to Superman but lay face down before sort of even sub didn't ask for that so they were in like I did the podcast back to back in a life in you in opposite there join in wherever that was in the west coast of Ireland through stones grace those before an amazing place and like there so he lied to dumb them lads and then I was crossing over and to doing Randolph Smiley's that we were in the lack of green room it's just some sort of ante room means like this theatre venue right and he was like rather Swami sat there like in aqua ropes at all our prior beaming shaved heads you know maybe even some sort of chalk so he did have like gonna short bindi type stuff Danny worried and I'm like what's that on your head and touching him and then like a and then fingers would you like to see me not your latest trick a monk before I don't think you minute do well this is there something she didn't beautifully refreshing about that yeah joyful they're absolutely terrific beautiful lovely men yeah really likes of a lot I tell another thing about the Brazilian Jujitsu I'm doing everywhere Ribeiro school being trained by Professor Ricardo Wilkie got calling professor and he's full of respect this culture so like but the other day though there was a teacher I don't know if he was he was a little camp I don't know how can I know what he sexuality was but like you know there's a presumed machismo around the world of martial arts even though there's some other loveliest people I've ever met most Jennifer this guy that was teaching he was a little bit camp also blew me away to see someone go okay right so now we do my phone again I said this man's your new favorite BJJ teacher camp and then tough I mean he's blown my mind rich what a world well an odd world of collision and paradox welcome to Los Angeles uh-huh as where I am yeah I really liked it there's so much to learn isn't there hold on I'm it like what boy I want to have some bit of information that's gonna make me better exercise him because I'm holding that car see I can't find it in my CI care and blues not doing it for you yeah it is what about yoga I like I'm doing a lot of hot yoga you don't get in do you not as much as I should mrs. doesn't does she do delight a bit yeah I do yoga yoga come to me yeah like they say hey this is a finger person told me like they in Hindi the fray so you know you would say I speak French right like in Hindi they say Hindi comes to me in there beautiful even the speaking of a language is regarded not as something that you've both that it's regarded is something that flows through a limitless library that is beautiful how can I help you with your fitness though well I think you want to go running with me all right he'll do that I'm scared right hold on I got those shoes the team say these fast no no you guys go no no man speed at this life but I have like I can go I go slow I just got all our hovered in it depends depends on who I'm with here if we go we go we go we go however you want to go all right my daughter I'll take you out I'll take that x-ray sounds like a lovely experience how long will the run be going for as long as you want it to how long would it we bend time for hours I'd like to lose myself in there yeah all right I'll get you out there extremely fit now I got my work cut out for ya all right your uh your publicist is gonna kill me so we gonna let you go okay but I appreciate it that's your heart out got your heart out I was told you have a heart out you know your baby before traffic starts going that way don't get home and babies oh I got you I haven't got any jobs that's good I'm unemployable yeah there's no the rock isn't waiting for you right now the rock a way for Nolan that's going to be eternity that that's gonna be a trip working with that guy he's like a pharaoh yeah you've got like sort of he's got chief energy he's why I'd say he's got sort of the energy of a King from a like a non-european culture like literally like a benevolent Scorpion King exactly it was really like when I first met but he's really beautiful and lots of kind and easy but he said in that peninsular of Fame where you're assured off in cars the whole time today I mean there's always people around you but like there's a this like when I've done the first season of ballers I made this mental choice don't be an [ __ ] subtle thing but it helps in a working environment I'll do whatever people ask me I said on that job I'm gonna not like make things difficult just be there be amenable and easy you I'm dating like they think about this job all is that a contrast from previous work yes I'm gonna use this job as a waiter for corsets this work pretty easy to work through my psychosis my feeling I'm not good enough well I can dump my [ __ ] on that guy over there if I'm really unbearable so like I'm just gonna like you know when I'm at work my primary purpose is to do a good job at my work I work for these people I've got a contract these people don't if I'm questioning what am i doing am I being kind to the people around and useful these are all things like to thank you so long to learn so obvious aren't they well anyway so I'm being I think I wasn't know to any things they asked me to do and like both the joy of ballers if I may be so bold is that all my scenes are things like Russell or the character I play walked in a room says some stuff leaves room it's never is on a horse jumps have a Nilla copter smashed in the face it's nothing like that and I thought this is gonna be a piece of cake what a breeze of a job and then like the wonderful director of the last season this fellow Julian Farina English fellow called me on day two ago so we thought it was so wonderful living scene on Malibu beach where when you're talking to Dwayne and to rob corddry the brilliant actor that does all this things with Dwayne because if you like at the end of the conversation take your clothes off and walk naked into the sea or Malibu beach not stating in front of hundreds of extras I'm not yeah okay I don't not go to my wife like you know I said that thing I'm gonna say yes to everything and I'm gonna be compliant and easy to work with what do you think shall I do she goes yeah just say yes and I go yeah we'll do that so like that means the next day I'm gonna have to do I'm nervous about being naked in that situation I get my wife a note before take folk off of my ass so I can see what my ass looks like now here's the key thing if you're having if you ever have to get your ass out you don't have to worry if you've got no fat on you but for normal people don't tense it you think tensing it is gonna beat you up but never let dimples and wrinkles relax the ass relax the artists Frankie Goes to Hollywood used to say so like I learned what was the optimum state for my ass before doing it obviously windy situations like there was a paparazzi there and loads of extras and rock is a exact on that show so cuz I'm bit nervous about doing this Murr say in front of all these people need was oh yeah and he was like a benevolent king and he went let me organize this for uni organise all the extras to line up in flanks facing away to form a human war to stop paparazzi taking pictures of me I had to walk into the sea with what is called a [ __ ] sock over my yeah adaptive organs all trussed up in there like that very weird moment when you take off your coat and you're naked and you know that your ass is being looked at action and then you walk it's a very strange feeling you know and then it created so if you don't you sometimes think that in your life there's some weird glitch in the matrix moment where everything goes mad cuz in this moment I was doing that I'm feeling all self-conscious and walking away from the rock who's lost on the list of men I want to be naked in front or by the [ __ ] way like heat like Gary Busey appeared he's known in the show the little pale kid what was his kid little kid was like the mayor of toy town okay he's broken this Gary Busey there's a car alarm going off the rocks talking the Gary Busey Gary Busey a distant did not look like Gary Busey but a person who had fallen through the cracks of society I know I mean I see him around Malibu all the time yes it was as prominent as a feature like it's like a nose it was a second nose okay that's the TV show I want to see it was just the orchestration around all of that is more compelling about shows of TV shows is that the infrastructure and the thing that's not seen is you know yeah what's but beyond the scene is so beautiful at the point being that the rock marshaled his copious super powers to create his human wall to protect you so if you have a trust and his frail in his frailty yeah that's the real message yes so now I have a three-dimensional picture of this human being all right all right now I'm gonna let you go home thank you my friend Mentors check it out check out under the skin on luminary and rusty Rockets all those kind of places all right come back and talk to me again [Music]

Channel: Rich Roll

Views: 337,049

Rating: 4.883184 out of 5

Keywords: rich roll, russell brand, happy pear, eckhart tolle, terrence mckenna, kip andersen, david lynch, joseph campbell, prabhupada, brian cox, bikram, recovery, sobriety, addiction, heroin, alcoholism, 12 steps, aa, alcoholics anonymous, mentors, spirituality, religion, vegan, plant-based, podcast, under the skin, luminary, mindfulness, meditation, tm, transcendental meditation, personal growth, self-help, self-improvement, diet, nutrition, cowspiracy, what the health, comedy, stand up, fame, celebrity

Id: qyRCQEum_vI

Length: 99min 50sec (5990 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 16 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/[deleted]]

Rich Roll is one of the most inspirational people that I'm aware of.

[u/upgradedpickaxe13]

I deadass thought this was Castro