Synthetic Oil Controversy Explained...

the discoloration is usually what i see from the synthetic it doesn't get up to temperature properly it will actually crystallize what you're talking about it's not that it's bad it does too good common misconception even 350s a lot of people say when they pour 30 over and stuff but now they got a 355 hence it doesn't work like that aluminum bearings are softer synthetic oil is very aggressive and is known to be aggressive on aluminum bearings and aluminum services what [Music] if you guys haven't seen the video on the 5 liter teardown we did a video with scott and um there was a lot of comments that we need to address there's a lot of things that we need to clear up all right so we kind of broke our tradition of the everything wrong with engine series we've done a pile of these videos on every make and model that we come across and we don't do it to bash on the engines we do it so that if you're looking into buying one of these engines or swapping it into something we try to cover the things that might let you down and end up costing you money and we're just having a conversation that kind of strayed away from the five leader and started a little bit about the oil and um some of that made it to camera some of that wasn't filmed and we need to clear some stuff up and that's what this video is about so here we go okay so as you guys know we bought a 5 liter in a mustang now when we originally bought that we didn't know anything about the engine when i fired up the engine um it sounded good and aaron said we should tear it down so we can make a video about it i'm like i don't want to tear down a brand new engine there's no point that that that doesn't make sense to me so i found on kijiji uh a blown up five liter it said seized for 180 bucks i knew nothing about the engine i thought that would be a good way to talk about the 5-liter because we could disassemble it to see the insides of it why it's more complicated bigger than an ls is and at the same time if i needed some spare parts or sensors or something for the coyote that's in the mustang i'd have some spare whatever so um that being said we tore this into diagnosing the problems with that engine not at all because we didn't know any history on the engine at all we're not diagnosing saying it broke because of synthetic oil it broke because of this or because of that it broke because a connecting rod let go which was pretty obvious which was a common problem in the first gen they changed the connecting rods in the second gen and fix that issue right the first thing that you guys got absolutely right is this coloration uh between the two heads and that's the pvc now i didn't cross my mind because when i took the valve cover off a couple times on the coyote it had a pvc in both valve covers going to the engine yeah but um my coyote also has no emission stuff on it because it's aftermarket i think it was a crate motor um and i don't know even how they were planning on getting that on the road but the f-150 might have the one pvc going in and that's fresh air on one side not on the other so i wasn't clueing in and and yeah it didn't even cross my mind it just uh makes perfect sense i saw the discoloration i quickly threw out that uh it was synthetic oil because normally uh when i see when i tear down engine most people that run synthetics they're running long kilometers uh they're going they're extending that life as far as can and even past that it doesn't matter if it's synthetic or it's regular oil if the maintenance isn't being done right i see that discoloration right so instead of a conventional way where it says you know you need to change your oil over 5000k people are going 10 12 15 000 20 000 yeah just and the reason manufacturers say that is so that they can have a lower cost of ownership on their paperwork when they sell a vehicle that's part of it now now the oil does last that long but if you're doing frequent short runs 10 kilometers 20 kilometers and you're still going that 15 000 k you're gonna and that's where i get to see and now because of the climate that we live in here we're seeing minus twenties minus thirties uh that oil no matter what no matter if running a regular oil or synthetic oil um it still sees the byproducts of combustion yep and it just comes down to a lack of maintenance yeah and 99 i only get to see the engines when they're broken right and i do often ask my customers how often you change what kind of oil do you use because that's the background that i like to get uh and i can't say the customer hey you didn't change oil enough that's why i did it it's your fault it's your fault you're an idiot if i did that i wouldn't be in business right uh and we all have to remember too that there are very good quality synthetics out there which i personally run in my own truck you run something i run synthetic a lot of people ran with this and i said synthetic sucks that's not the case that's not that it's bad it does too good too good too good i have a 2018 ram 2500 and i run the best synthetic that i have had experience with in my truck okay i've seen good i've seen bad it doesn't mean that because of everybody's maintenance that all synthetic is bad some of your comments were should i stop running synthetic oil because you guys are really harping on synthetic oil absolutely not no do not switch from conventional if you love your synthetic there's nothing wrong with nothing wrong with it but don't if you're doing short drives don't do the full of what they say you can get out of it whether they should still get into the oil the by-products still get into that oil and that oil can't break that down in my own personal opinion i don't think you should be going to 20 or 25 000 that's when the light on my truck comes on 25 000 kilometers yeah i've already done four oil changes in that period with top grade noise top grade yeah synthetic it's so slippery it reduces the retalitational mass the rotational friction of that engine so much but it also adds to the cylinder walls so when you do the short drives in my experience and in my opinion when i see an engine come in i always see engines when they come in they're damaged but when they do short drives i'm sorry but they burn oil you've got a cast iron block you've got aluminum pistons you've got steel alloy rings you've got uh bearings that are 10 different materials mashed together so all of those are made to expand when they get up to operating temperature to fit perfectly until then you've got extra clearances here and there while things are warming up the aluminum warms up and expands a lot faster than steel does so you're saying that there's oil on the cylinder walls that because it's too slippery doesn't get wiped down and then that gets burnt goes down that's really burning your heat on the valves and stuff the synthetic is too slippery it stays on the cylinder walls and the pistons nowadays are on ring tension perfect example equinox they were changing all pistons and rings as full sets like it was going down style at gm dealership not to harp on a particular manufacturer but in our day and age everybody wants higher gas mileage yep so uh now we're coming with smoother cylinder bores less friction rings so harder rings so because the harder rings we have to have now smoother surfaces in the cylinders well now it's not suspending the oil or holding the oil in the crosshatch well now the rings are instead of breaking into the cylinder which we used to have in the past with cast iron rings and stuff like that uh we're getting to molly or plasma molly rings well you can't that doesn't break into a cylinder so now we have smoother surfaces well now that ring is sealing by tension so as it expands and now we're running in nicosil cylinders and stuff like that it's the nature of the beast you can't have both sides of it right you can look at every manufacturer toyota gm ford they all have issues with burning oil no matter what tech you are where you're coming from it doesn't matter they all have issues that's why it's too good but once it gets up to temperature and all those parts and your moving parts can expand and now tighten up all your clearances and they can run super tight clearances but a lot of manufacturers that i see don't run these tight clearances that it calls for kind of like what you get in street bikes or high-end i do a lot of bmws bodies volkswagens still not running the tight clearances but it's standard manufacturing that burns oil in those vehicles um but once the engines warm up clearances tighten up stops burning oil that's why typically in my job when i see fleet service vehicles like taxi cabs uh ambulances uh police cars cars that are running 24 7 a day they're getting the five six seven eight hundred thousand kilometers because synthetic is great once once it warms up right and it gets regular maintenance right because the police the ambulances the taxis they all have someone that's doing the maintenance on this and they get paid for all the oil changes let's do an oil change i do it twice as often right it's all about regular maintenance uh the crystallization yeah so a lot of people hit on that and that's kind of a term that i use in-house okay between me and my guys uh that's what we just throw loosely and what what i see in the engines that i see and again our climate minus 20 minus 30. uh one day it could be minus 30 and the next day it's plus 10. yeah and it's the short drives again in my experience in my opinion what i see on some of these engines with cheap what i would assume to say cheaper quality synthetics uh when they do a short drive say five minutes or maybe even ten the oil gets all over everything and it saturates it and that's the whole purpose of synthetic it saturates everything it soaks into all the parts and that's why it's so good but then when it gets shut off it hangs there and cools and the oil is super heated but the parts aren't really hot yet so it sits there and just suspends well then the next drive it does it again and then you get layer after layer after layer and then at the end of 100 200 300 whatever that number happens to be when i see the engine broken broken it has layers upon layers which i refer to as crystallization depending how it comes off if i wipe it with my finger and it comes off in flaky chunks almost like loose paint okay that's what i call crystallization oh okay the other version would be sludge yep every engine builder or anybody they experience has seen sludge in an engine i don't see the the conventional oil um flaking both synthetic and the conventional oil will really stink and i've it'll smell as bad as some of the old engines like i've done engines from 1914 1911 is the oldest engine i've done and when you open them up it just stinks and that's what these new engines are smelling like okay and it's just uh it comes down again to lack of a lack of maintenance i've been doing maintenance on excavating fleets and that we'd have random salesmen stop by and i could get a salesman for oil come and say that his oil's the best and everybody else is garbage uh his oil is better than um john deere's high tech or high torque or whatever it is um blah blah blah even though john deere says you can only run our oil in our equipment and he says my oil is better and it's like okay well you know how long have you been in the business well 10 years 15 years whatever it might be he's the smartest guy and his oil is the best and everybody else is is inferior next day uh an additive salesman will come and say every oil is okay but it's perfect when you add my stuff and if you're not adding my stuff it's not as good as it can be and he's an expert in his field and blah blah but he's contradicting the guy that came before and and that's the problem there's a lot of mis information in there but i don't think i would ever have an oil salesman come and say it's okay to mix our oil with another brand of oil um additives is one thing i think i think that kind of i i don't know if you've seen it or not but i think the additives market kind of petered back down again oils are pretty have come a long way again in the last five ten years additives were a big thing 20 years ago but i i don't think any manufacturer recommends saying it is safe to mix our oil with some other oil if you're if you're three quarts low and you're at a gas station at two in the morning sure throw some oil in there and do it but on a regular basis buying whatever cheapest oil is available and mixing it with whatever cheapest dollar you bought last time is even even if it's okay you're safer if you don't do that yeah right and that's something you can yeah run the cheapest oil no problem just keep running that oil yeah yeah and do regular oil changes yeah and no problem and then you can be guaranteed that you're not going to run into issues with blending it with something else because you run the same things yep guys they want to save as much money as possible yeah it's usually fleet services that are renting out they do regular oil changes the cheapest oil up there yeah i get those engines in here they look beautiful so i've been in business for uh 15 years just about and i had one particular engine come in from a farmer about 10 years ago it was an 8.3 cummins and a case tractor 1972. he said it was blowing really bad smoke was a pile of junk hated it wanted to rebuild complete top to bottom okay no problem took the thing apart and i have i was blown away by this engine it had 12 000 hours on it which i normally see do farm engines around 10 thousand i could eat off the inside of this engine bearings were amazing immaculate pistons immaculate rings are like a crosshatch still there so i asked him what kind of oil he was running and to this day i run that oil and not lucas but it's just the poster what i would like to do is i'm gonna get in touch with my rep and i would like to introduce you to him okay and i would like you to run with it okay i have a 2018 dodge ram 2500 67 diesel i do personally run a synthetic oil now i'm not going to go to the point of saying what brand it is because we're not here to push brands or to say which one is better than the other the viewers are probably going to ask what i run or not but let's save that for a different video all right so what was wrong with that engine pump timing yes it was the injection pump just see it was blowing sucking on oil and it was burning i knew it uh valves were mint yeah rotators are mint i still changed everything because that's what the farmer and that's what my customer asked for yeah and he still continues to run that oil in all his feet and i only see one engine from him every 10 years nice it's a one the aluminum bearings now i did read a couple comments about guys hitting on these aluminum bearings and stuff like that and this is just strictly in my opinion my professional opinion from what i see in here and again it comes down to regular maintenance the byproducts of a combustion engine still creates all your acids all your all your dirts and everything that are inside that oil it's got to go somewhere it goes in the oil well now you have 20 000 kilometers worth of acids in that oil it's got to do something to it if the maintenance is prolonged for too long those acids start to really attack at the human bearing so so that would be the first thing that the acids attack as the aluminum compared to everything else it starts to loosen it up and starts to make it weaker and starting in 2004 when it was really big push that's when i saw a huge trend of engines coming back really popular the the five threes six liters hugely popular for and that's just my professional opinion i've done thousands of those engines yeah and a lot of those engines they come in with with rod bearings and main bearing issues and they're aluminum bearings i change everything out with p series bearings clevite uh p series bearings and i've been doing that for 15 years now and the worst thing that scares me in my industry is this is the new trend the new trend is all the aluminum pieces that are going to because it's cheaper if you did your regular maintenance 5000k synthetic or conventional the aluminum would be okay okay it's the acids that attack the aluminum okay over prolonged oil changes but regardless you when you rebuild an engine you put in the p in every application that i can get a babbit an old-school traditional babbitt or a tri-metal bearing which is a hard hard surface bearing okay i put it in every situation i can just like your engine yep every one of mine that you've done so that's awesome it's it's you've beaten that one i'm pretty hard on everything you build and again i think another thing i'd like to point out too i'm not a performance engineer builder okay i probably built the audi engine i primarily specialize in heavy industrial diesel engines okay um and for the right customer i will entertain uh low horsepower or budget performance build engine right but i would never begin to start telling someone that oh yeah you'll get this amount of horsepower i've taken cars our engines the dyno every dyno is different in this area yeah and it's just not something i'm secured so i'm not a performance no so so that's where it comes into you said that there was nothing wrong with the oil pumps and the fibers yeah i saw a couple comments on that yeah yeah and again just comes down to my experience what the engine is the stock engines that i do i see guys that are posting they're getting they're supercharging their engines six seven eight hundred horse while they're blowing out uh oil pumps that's not what i'm doing right if i was building an engine like that you better believe i'm changing the oil pump yeah like it's like well you're adding uh something that needs oil like a turbo or a supercharger yeah the stock pump is not going to do that so if you're do taking these bolt-on kits and that is great you got to keep in in mind that this pump was not designed for these extra lubricating surfaces and it's either going to fail prematurely or not lube everything as well as it used to right even a fully built performance engine that's been dynoed just like yours you could go start that up tomorrow and leave the guts all over the place that's the point of performance you never know what you're gonna get right i am in the business of improving stock engines okay and to get the longest amount of life for my customers so i got a lot of a lot of comments without a lot of comments but swept volume and all this stuff all good and fine when you're building a performance and yeah we're not talking performance engines here all i was trying to point out the fact was in nowadays engines with computer engines they are designed to run specifically to that computer program so in nowadays engines when you board to the next size they lower the compression distance of the piston so that yeah your displacement will technically be bigger if you want to follow the math but if you also want to follow the map the compression ratio stays the same yeah and so they do that but if you're making your bore bigger you're taking that much more air and compressing it as the piston comes up but to counter that you have to lower the rings on the piston or lower the piston on the pin it's usually the pin that is changed so typically the manufacturers assume that a builder like me deck the heads deck the block pretty much every engine i'm building i'm taking 10th i'm off the block and i'm down there yeah well now all of a sudden now my piston is 25 higher yeah well now if i got a bigger bore and my piston still stays the same height that messes up the computer now the computer will compensate for it but it doesn't mean that you're going to get the same life now out of that engine no but it also comes down to emissions because when you do that it is illegal for them to sell an aftermarket pistol that changes the compression ratio because now it doesn't meet the emissions anymore a general manufacturer of piston stock pistons does that in manufacturing so yeah by math the cubic inches bigger but the horsepower is same yep doesn't make any difference right but when you switch to an aftermarket piston srp je weiss cool i could i could walk diamond everything change the ball it is no longer all that is out the window now yeah you're swept volume and you're cc and all that stuff comes in account but 99 of my customers aren't paying me for that no and i don't want those jobs no stock get it running get it back out but you're doing diesels and stuff heavy industrial diesel stock applications that's what i love because i hate not being able to give a customer something that they can depend on i think you were just kind of joking but you said that the overall cam is the way of the future yeah we both know that in north america we are 30 years behind europe yes i constantly see videos of the guys in europe making fun of us yeah and they're they're and i guess i shouldn't focus it right on the overhead cams being the wave of the future i know i said that in my opinion it's really if we want to start catching up with some of these other companies that are making some bigger power we're going to have to learn how to eliminate the porsche rod engine but with that being said to lose the pushrod engine we sacrifice torque right because as soon as we get rid of the push rod we lose torque and why is that uh it's just it's it's the overhead valves now we're going to usually multiple valves per cylinder smaller valves both for exhaust and intake uh and then you start to decrease in your torque okay um but you get higher horsepower numbers or higher rpm which means people will attribute it to so high rpm automatically equals higher horsepower but not necessarily higher torque a great a perfect example would be something like a yamaha r6 or r1 street bike high high rpm but it doesn't mean that they're making power across that whole rpm curve right what i think is another great engine along with the 4 6 for it and i'm probably going to get all kinds of comments about this one but a mitsubishi 4g64 okay i've done a couple performance builds on those guys and they're hitting 12 13 000 rpm don't hold me to it like uh no no only only 10 800 really crazy power crazy rpm and it's holding together you're not gonna catch our five liters or our uh 502 big blocks or our three six two zero six yeah i see piles of five trees four six six liters they're great engines don't get me wrong with that people they're absolutely beautiful engines easy to work on easy machining but i do see my fair share of it just to throw it out there active fuel displacement lifters breaking yeah cam's blowing out come on oh just do the delete dude no problems but uh but yeah i think just because you said that the five liter is the way of the future and then ford just came out with a seven three push rod but yeah like every japanese engine every european engine has been overhead cam for years and they're like push rod they're still using that like the mustang still has a solid rear axle like a pickup traditionally too as you get in bigger cubes we traditionally go with a pushrod engine you don't see any big overhead cams until you start getting into oh cats or c-15s yeah but they don't have push-rod engines but i don't see anybody making comments about those right either i have built my own 4.6s two valve engines uh i do think that for my situations and what i was doing that they're one of the best engines that i like to work on uh and and yeah from factory they might not make a lot of power but in my experience very simple mods uh good machine job like uh good machining cc in the heads putting some of that time into the performance time that i'm talking about uh easy cams and injectors with a sc sct now this is old this is going back quarter few years i've grown up i haven't played with that stuff as much but we were making 550 to the to the ground okay plus plus that and uh in my opinion that's pretty easy power and and i really see a lot of people that are losing horsepower numbers they they they say they're making a thousand but they're making 300 and i see it every day and when i say 500 and it was 556 that's true rear wheel horsepower in my area right on the chassis dyno that we used but i wasn't going for horsepower numbers we were just going to make sure that the air fuel mixture is right and i can beat it i find that that is cheap that's budget orientated okay there are a pile of guys out there that are getting some pretty good numbers off of budget builds and there's a pile of guys out there that are getting a thousand horsepower plus on those two v engines and yeah i'm not a budget builder i'm not a budget builder yeah uh and you never know what's going on in the background these guys are saying that they're building for a budget but how do you know what's going on like uh i do budget engines too in my four six build i think i had maybe four grand into it five grand you're doing all the work uh and that's including probably what i would charge for i would build that same engine today for probably five grand okay uh plus injectors and the tuner right right times have changed a lot yeah yeah but the stuff the technology has changed a lot in that and that they're probably getting way more horsepower to that sloppy mechanics i'm on their tread on facebook and it's the same thing oh i make uh all these people posting their builds like oh i've got 800 uh uh wheel horsepower it's awesome and then they're like well what's your quarter mile yeah well 13 seconds so the math doesn't add up right and and that's the problem because they're doing 800 horse and like 200 foot pounds of time yeah and that could be that's what were the numbers or like you said it's actually like 350 400 horse and and uh unfortunately reality sucks because it takes longer it's more expensive and it sometimes doesn't actually work so guys we appreciate your comments and your experiences definitely comment down below if you are an oil tech and you want to talk to us or if you're in the area and you want to discuss oils and take us farther we're happy to do that um scott runs synthetic in his truck i do not but we both do oil changes at 5000 k although the wife's saturn is starting to stretch a little bit more we're we're almost at 4500 yeah yeah i bought a filter but i don't know where it went like i just reset the oil monitor yeah mama here's your car but anyway um we all have different uh different experiences and uh we'd like hearing from you guys if you want you can send uh shoot us an email if you want to dig into this deeper but i think i think you cleared up a lot of points i'm gonna continue getting you to do all of our work um there's wait man lots of videos coming out we've got different ends i did pick up an om606 oh yeah yeah so um that and lots of other good stuff coming down uh down the tube so thanks for watching guys remember um get out there and work on it have some fun get filthy no here we go

Channel: DEBOSS GARAGE

Views: 750,668

Keywords: synthetic oil, synthetic oil vs conventional oil, synthetic vs conventional, synthetic blend, synthetic oil protection, synthetic oil comparison, synthetic oil change interval, synthetic oil change, synthetic oil in old car, synthetic oil test, synthetic oil vs synthetic blend, synthetic oil vs conventional oil motorcycle, synthetic oil scotty kilmer, synthetic oil filter, synthetic oil in high mileage cars, oil change scams, when to oil change a car, when to change engine oil

Id: tDpTPxinNyo

Length: 28min 48sec (1728 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 11 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/KPDUB57]

I really enjoyed the discussion, but now all I want to know is what oil that customer uses!!!