Surviving the Female Narcissist: A Deconstruction by @RICHARD GRANNON

okay so this talk I'm gonna do for you I'm going to lay out a problem and I'm gonna lay out a solution this is bordering on being a little bit of a social taboo I'm not really quite sure how this situation has built up to the point where you can't actually and I'm talking about within the field of psychology within the field of mental health openly discuss this issue without people getting very very uncomfortable what has happened in the literature and in the research I think as a result of certain ideas has skewed people's idea of what's going on here so what you will be told and what the published research indicate indicates is that most narcissists are male and that therefore it makes sense that narcissistic abuse is largely something that men do to women men are the aggressors women the victim aggressor war you know sent victim so Nasus are typically described as being male and therefore narcissistic abuse is something that men do to women and then when you look online on the forums on the you know in the cyber sphere of psychology whether this is Facebook or Instagram or wherever you look you will see it's mainly when narcissism is raised it will mainly be female participants talking about men now I've been in this field since 2012 and the vast majority of my client base has been female most of the people who come to my seminars it's women probably to 80 80 to 90 percent occasionally and I really don't know why this is why this is the case because the research doesn't back this as an aside just so you know there's very very few there are some but very very few gay people showing up and talking about this relative to the number of women who are talking about experiencing this in heterosexual relationships with men so I don't know I mean I've had gay clients and I've spoken to people online who've been in gay relationships it's usually men I get very very few women very very few women coming to me and saying oh I've got my I've got problems and my girlfriend and it looks like this some men have come through but very very few my point about this is that the filter through which this particular cycle or psychological order is perceived currently is highly gendered and it's skewed in an odd way now in the literature very infrequently will women be labeled as NPD usually they will get a different diagnosis though this is changing and diagnosing MPD's as a whole of the tricky thing anyway because why is an NPD gonna show up to therapy to be diagnosed if they are offered a questionnaire why would that answer it honestly they're very easy to trick by the way the question is for psychopathy and narcissism they're available freely online many of them and you can trick them if you just do the questionnaire and imagine that you want to be seen as a psychopath you will be if you want to not be seen as a psychopath then you won't be in similarly for for narcissism usually women get a diagnosis of BPD histrionic or less frequently antisocial personality disorder which from now on I'm going to refer to as psychopathy to avoid confusion and people here antisocial and they think oh that's somebody who's self isolating but actually it means somebody who anytime they're in contact with another human being the contact is exploitative it's poisonous it's toxic in some way and that's why it's called antisocial so I'll just say psychopath we all understand what a psychopath is history onic would usually be sort of determined as an extremely infantile vein reaction seeking and hyper sexualized modality of functioning BPD would typically be emotionally labile self-destructive fragile also very reaction seeking sometimes hyper sexualized infantile in vain as well what else is typically borderline there's a lot of push-pull in the relational style push-pull relational style okay so emotionally labile self-destructive fragile push pull push pull meaning and I want you whilst you don't want me when you want me I don't want you I'm going to enter your space and accelerate the intimacy of our relationship if you accelerate and it's been increased the intimacy of the relationship I feel smothered and pull away why you showing different to me I'm coming towards you why are you pulling towards me oh you're smothering me that's push-pull so you never really know where you are the classic view on the Internet and I think it's partly based on the psychological world as well unfortunately it shouldn't be this way is a very cosmopolitan magazine Oprah Winfrey Chacho view of narcissistic psychopathic men so the classic view of narcissistic psychopathic men is in my opinion a very dangerous because it gives people the wrong impression of what it looks like and very simplistic trope it's a culture bound trope and it is American Psycho I was going to say by Chuck Palin hurric by Bret Bret Easton Ellis American Psycho so you're Patrick Bateman as portrayed by Christian Bale successful wealthy powerful and predatory so I'm not gonna write all that now because it's too many words successful wealthy powerful predatory alpha male a guy who is an alpha in his own environment so why is this problematic and why is this this just this which is the tip of the iceberg by the way on this issue why is this problematic this is problematic for two reasons these tropes these ideas are kind of archetypal so what we can see here are culture-bound archetypes it's never comfortable when a non-american talks about American culture especially when he's talking predominantly to Americans but in my humble opinion these tropes not this trope this trope is an American trope this archetype of the narcissistic psychopath you know I like the fact that American Psycho is played by Christian Bale because then we also get the overtones of his character and Batman the Christopher Nolan version of Batman that Bruce Wayne right the way you know the guy riding around in a tuxedo in the red sports car it's a trope it's this silly idea of what a the ultimate wealthy alpha male looks like let's know what the problems of this trope first so emotionally labile infantile self-destructive vain reaction seeking hyper sexualized using a lot of push-pull in their relational style and fragility there is something so there is the proper material on borderline personality disorder and then there's Richie's hypothesis my hypothesis of how board line personality disorder plays out as I'm talking if I remember I'll distinguish between the two because I know some of you have studied psychology so I'll try not to blur my own personal hypotheses with what's in the literature the push-pull relational style that's something that I focus on that's when I see this I start thinking borderline the reason why this I think happens is because of emotional lability and I think that actually what you have with many borderlines is a counter dependent personality type meaning that love is something that even though they crave it they're terrified of it at the same time we'll come back to that this as an archetype as a trope there are many women out there who believe that this is how to behave that this is actually just what femininity is there's been a bunch of memes if you look if you want to know where people are up to in terms of what they generally think culture why level it's good to look at memes it's good to follow memes on Facebook and on Instagram there's been a bunch of memes have come out in the last four or five years though frequently attributed to Marilyn Monroe a lot of a misquote that their quotes that she never said that didn't come from her that other people have ascribed to her but you'll notice that it is this idea of talking around protecting the notion of womanhood with being infantile vain reaction seeking and sometimes self-destructive and drawing a complex aquiver drawing inequality and equality not inequality and equality between femininity and self-destructiveness that's a problem with drawing an equivalence between being infantile cute childlike pouting manipulative and femininity that's a problem because I think that this has becoming internalized and the femininity has become a equalized with a very toxic notion of what femininity is all of these things where you see this coming together right when I get a client who comes to me and they say I don't know whether I have PTSD complex PTSD or whether I actually have borderline and many people who are diagnosed with borderline and histrionic Personality Disorder are misdiagnosed because the cluster between of traits between complex post-traumatic stress disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder it overlaps it overlaps very very heavily and so they get misdiagnosed what I tell them to look out for when it's a personality disorder to me and all of these by the way incidentally I use the American definitions which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual which I find to be the most useful so the abusive exploitative personality types in the DSM and the American DSM are called cluster B and I use this instead of the World Health Organization or the other options because I find it the best and most useful definition this is not in the DSM this is my humble opinion when you're trying to figure out whether somebody actually has a personality disorder or whether it's just a traumatized infantile response to something that occurred to them in childhood because these are the kinds of things that happen when people are sexually abused all of them if the sexual abuse in childhood you're damn sure they're going to be hyper sexualized for life they're going to be it's highly likely that they'll be addicted to the act of sex the physical sensations of sex but more that their ego is intrinsically linked to them having value as a sexually desirable object it's a break in the self perception in the area of sexuality and if I'm not a sexually desirable object I'm not anything at all it's not that I'm not lovable it's that I cease to exist I drop out of existence if I'm not a sexual object if somebody actually embraces that and they've had a traumatic break with reality you can see why clinging desperately to being a sexually desirable object become such a thing and can become such a hysterical attachment because without that it's death if I'm not sexually desirable I don't exist and in the unconscious non-existence is equated with death what I look for is entitlement and exploitation I would say though if somebody demonstrates all of these but doesn't have the entitlement and isn't neurotically compelled to exploit then this would be post-traumatic stress or complex post-traumatic stress and it's fixable it's healable this is somebody who is emotionally immature because trauma freezes and they will have experienced trauma at a certain age and it's frozen their development it's frozen their maturity they're emotionally immature they're emotionally completely illiterate they don't want to deal with any of their own feelings so they're trapped in a cycle of projecting outward because they can't deal with their own feelings so they become emotionally illiterate right oh my god what happens when the person is trying to spell the literate can't spell illiterate illiterate they've become emotionally illiterate what they're going to do is they're going to keep projecting outwards illy which leads to projection projection is most people know this but I'm going to say just in case projection is I do not want to accept a part of myself or a feeling in myself because I find it unacceptable to myself image but it is there so in order to deal with that I mean projector outward and frequently and will be projected onto my intimate partner now if there is entitlement and exploitation and all of this and all of this I think you're talking about full-blown personality disorder there is in the cluster be the chances of that being responsive to therapeutic intervention or negotiation or any kind of adult to adult communication is nil I personally don't think that that can happen if we've gone there so I don't think that what we're dealing with actually is a huge tidal wave of people becoming narcissistic personality disordered borderline personality disordered etc I don't think that's what's happening but I do think it's nearly as bad as that because if your cultural coordinates are all of this is my right all of this is what makes me attractive and sexy and interesting then the strategies that I use in life and in relationships will be based on this so that's why that trope is dangerous why is this trope dangerous the trope of Patrick Bateman capitalists wet dream is successful success wealth power and his predatory okay Patrick Bateman or Christopher Nolan's Bruce Wayne Christopher Nolan chose to make Bruce Wayne a kind of a laughable character a dope a billionaire playboy dope in his external perception of him why is this a dangerous trope who does it else does this sound like or what was the most popular piece of pornography that was consumed by most women in the Western world in the last five years Fifty Shades of Grey it was this sound like Christian Grey why is this a problem because you've got women probably probably likely over-diagnosing through the cyberspace through the cyber sphere men in their lives as actually having a full-blown pathological personality disorder that is narcissistic and psychopathic that it says that men are like Patrick Bateman they're successful they're wealthy they're powerful they're predatory their alpha males who drive around in red sports cars and bang everything that they can get their hands on so they would also be hyper sexual and highly promiscuous promiscuous and unfeeling because they are psychopaths right but also I want this so this is bad and desirable all at the same time this alpha male is the ultimate goal and he is my worst enemy all in one now why is that then an issue because if I am highly emotionally labile extremely entitled and have a push-pull relational style the chances are high because of my emotional mobility my perceptions will be skewed this is not I don't think this is talked about all that much in the literature but I doubt there'll be many psychologists who disagree with me that if somebody is very emotionally disregulated they have very poor internal boundaries very low impulse control and their emotions are going up and down all the time that their perceptions are going to become warped over time and then they'll start projecting parts of themselves that they don't want outward parts of themselves that are bad and desirable because good girls don't want Patrick Bateman or Christian gray that's that's only bad girls would run that that's bad I'm not allowed to want that I'm not allowed so what it is that I truly want so there's something wrong with this so what happens is projection and I think what we've got is an epidemic of women diagnosing men as being the thing that they really really should not want because of desire so I don't we got to psychobabble II on you but what this would mean is if you have somebody with a very very fragile sense of self who possibly as being sexually abused know sexual abuse to be clear in childhood it might be actual physical sexual abuse of varying degrees and varying levels that we don't need to get into here but it can also be a boundary breaking unwarranted level of sexually flavored attention from the wrong source that also is abuse if a mother or a father is looking at little girl or a little boy looking at talking to talking about them in a way that is inappropriate that is boundary breaking and it causes huge problems in the personality when they grow up it's really tricky because that person can can't actually then say well I was sexually abused they can only say it was kind of icky for me growing up mum would look at me funny when I was not wearing clothes and they can't quite figure out what it is that's gone wrong but we're told well unless you were actually physically assaulted it's not an assault it creates problems I thought I suspect a very very large number of people are walking around with this as an issue because of boundary broken hyper sexualized attention in childhood that was completely inappropriate when the entitlement and the exploitation creeps in the emotional lability creeps in what can starts happen is if you look at a guy imagine that you're a girl who has this going on inside and you look at a guy and you like him and you start to feel desire for him but you're projecting as well you start to project bad attributes onto him and desirable because it's the same it's the same this idea people say it's outdated the the ultimate the ultimat man is a bad boy the most desirable man is always going to be a bad boy it's not outdated it'll never be outdated it's biological because bad in this context is only bad and I didn't write it down some psychologists are calling this a culture-bound syndrome when I say some there are many many very well respected psychologists who's saying we need to stop calling narcissism a personality disorder it isn't we need to stop calling borderline histrionic psychopathy a personality disorder they're saying they're not personality disorders their responses to trauma they're response but it's a it's a coping mechanism to deal with a hostile environment from childhood not a personality disorder there's also many people are saying it's entirely culture bound these terms that would mean that this order only has meaning in the culture in which it's found it has meaning in the United Kingdom if somebody has a narcissistic personality disorder that has meaning but in other countries and other environments it might not have the same meaning it might not have the same implications that might just be the way you are the way you're supposed to be bad in this context what would bad be bad may only be bad in a certain cultural environment one certain cultural core that's have changed so what I suspect the reason why bad and desirable and the idea of the bad boys come in is because bad implies taboo so what's a taboo what is it you're not allowed to do that's so bad that guys like this or girls who think that got a geyser like this well maybe they're not what is it that they're doing that is so bad that is so attractive that's probably a debate for a whole of the day and it's probably already been covered elsewhere in your members area here by other people what is it that is that would appeal to the hypodermic hyper gammak Bravo's not psychologies hypergamy Rolo's hypergamy but Laurel psychology or soapless the sociological not a psychological term in sociology hypergamy I'm sure whether you know this is just marrying up what you've got there in the red pill with Rallos hypergamy that is a whole hypothesis that would easily be a PhD standard for a thesis because there's a lot to it so in terms of rolos hypothesis of hypergamy rhh from now on wallows hypothesis of hypergamy what is considered attractive well because he's using a lot of evolutionary psychology and a lot of ideas around strength and varying degrees of strength as it has been said you know there needs to be a mix of alpha to beta depending on where the person who's fight who's experiencing the attraction is optic it's probably going to be based on things that we would biologically associate with strength so psychopathy and indifference and a lack of emotionality might be associated to somebody with a lot of options or somebody who is indifferent because they are powerful my point here is to say this two things really one trope number one this is how many women think they should be in the world and I don't see I see men encouraging this I do see a lot of men encouraging this but more often than not and based on my experience for clients this is encouraged by women this is encouraged by traumatized mothers who put this on their daughters they entrain this on to their daughters when I started with their my project back in 2012 my client base was only the daughters of narcissistic mothers these are a group of women who if I said this too they would say yes yes yes yes yes that is my mom that is 1,000% my mom and when she tried to put this on me I said no and then they become just for your interest the daughter of a narcissistic mother the daughter of narcissistic mother there are all websites there's website how they're called their daughters and artistic mothers it's a pretty useful website if you're interested in narcissistic personality disorder they will say that if they reject it this doctrine this ideology they would then be targeted they would become the black sheep of the family and the mother would experience that as a narcissistic injury or you reject my philosophy you reject my ideology my way of garnering power in the world that I'm trying to share with you fuck you narcissistic rage and narcissistic punishment comes next the daughter of a narcissistic mother will become a black sheep there's a whole series of problems that comes with that she will then that daughter of narcissistic mother were usually trying to invert all of this she'll try and do the opposite of this but she probably will have already been hyper-sexualized because her mother will have treated her like a little adult who's Tigana and sexual attention from men in order to have value in the world so she will have experienced that trauma and she will already be emotionally labile and once somebody has that emotional dysregulation the trauma of that it's there then into skewed perception and complex post-traumatic stress disorder the second issue is this trope of the alpha male the bad the bad and desirable male who's both Patrick Bateman Oh terrible his psychopathy that's awful and yet all of these things kind of very comfortably overlap with the ultimate fantasy man if we assume that Fifty Shades of Grey worked because this idea of a man was what the fantasy was successful wealthy powerful and predatory and alpha male somebody who takes control and the fantasy in that story is that he ties the girl up and fucks her brains out so he physically literally takes control of her that's the bad quote quote bad because of cultural taboos and yet desirable root of the idea but my point is that many men are being rubber-stamp with this because of desire I've experienced that I've experienced being told that I am and treated as though I'm a psychopathic powerful predatory alpha male and I was like honestly I think I could do with being a bit more like that love I'm not like that I'm not I'm not secure enough to be like that I'm not assertive enough to be like that I wish I was a bit more like the guy you're treating me as but I'm not but it was only a year after the relationship I realized that the desire and the fight with that desire was causing that here we get something where it then crosses over into issues that can become legal issues that can become life destroying issues there is an effect and I'm I only found out about this two years ago it's very new to me it's called projective identification now and this is this is where we've got to be careful especially with the current movements that are going on I wish I could smell that's his identification identification identification projective identification you all know everybody knows what projection is if you made sense to you always stop projecting you know what he means projective identification when the you can see this is kind of like if you don't want to take it on as a personality disorder you can see it as a damaged personality or somebody whose ego boundaries have been cracked there are gaps in their ego boundaries their relationship between reality and fantasy is weak there are boundaries between external and internal weak and the internal boundaries between what they feel and what they think breakdown that means if I feel it I think it it is true I feel you're attacking me you are attacking me with no linguistic cognitive process that goes I feel you're attacking me I feel you're attacking me I wonder if that's true has he ever attacked me before what's the evidence he isn't what's the evidence here's it's straight from your attacking me to you I feel you are so you are projective identification takes that one step further if I need you to be this bad person the Christian gray as far as I know I've never I tried to read that I thought awful I'm quite happy to read that kind of fiction but that was bad and I don't think there's anything illegal or criminal so he's not quite a psychopath by the classic definitions but the Patrick Bateman character does or at least fantasizes about set and the story is violent it kills people or at least he fantasizes about setting the story so there is this criminal element to this if I I'm coming from this place if I'm a woman who's coming from this place and I desire you and I need you to be that and you're not being that I will respond with narcissistic injury and narcissistic rage I will believe I will provoke you Oh Gaslight you and I will manipulate you until you start being the bad man I need you to be this is a problem because what you're seeing sometimes and there seems to be confusion there around this issue is people who have been slowly boiled over time to the point where they're acting completely out of character there's a new term in the cyberspace for narcissism now it's called reactive abuse reactive abuse largely is defined as me winding you up until you go berserk preferably publicly so I can say look you're crazy I told you you're crazy it's all my family you're crazy told all your friends you are crazy and now you're being crazy look at you proving my point but it's me that boiled you slowly so that point a gas lit you so heavily that you have an explosive reaction it's reactive abuse I force you to react badly this is projective identification do you see how awful you're being so and narcissistic the abusive man doing that to a woman wants to say you're crazy you're paranoid you're out of control of your emotions so pushes and pushes and pushes until there's an explosion and he'll catch on camera or will make sure she does it in front of our friends so he can go told she was crazy same thing that a man will do to a woman push and push and push until he explodes and catches it on camera I'm not saying that that's what happened with Johnny Depp mone married that young girl but his wife and his previous wife all of his friends and all of his family and his kid said never before has he acted that way he's never acted with explosive rage he's never acted in predatory or nasty way and maybe shouldn't comment cuz I don't know the full facts but based on what I saw and the fact that she just happened to be videoing him she just happened to catch him right as he was exploding and I think he he threw a glass on a wall and cut his own hand and was screaming and swearing might be what we're talking about here in terms of projective identification now why would somebody do that why would somebody do that to a guy who's in a position of power and has a good reputation just to destroy his reputation here we go back into the borderline by the way to me this is narcissism it's all narcissism they don't want to say narcissism they wanted to fine Nasim as being a male problem and borderline as a female problem I think I've seen just as many men who fall into broadly into the borderline category there's a ton of men now it's not as common but there's a ton of man because of the way we're going culturally who acts like histrionics it was just as histrionic as women vein reaction seeking hyper sexualized acting in this highly highly feminized way but this is all narcissism the only thing that I think is not narcissism is the aunt social personality disorder part because there's no false self everything else is the protection of a false self a fake idea of who I want to protect the world the psychopath doesn't give a shit narcissist board lines and histrionic a vain and protective of their image the Psychopaths couldn't care less that's a it's almost like a defining quality of the psychopath they'll say they have low resilience they'll say they have impulse control they'll say they'll have a greater tendency to violence but the reason for all of those things is because they don't care about the self-image so psychopathy probably isn't narcissism the rest all are so if you have this borderline trait this now is Richie's theory of borderline personality disorder not the literature I think there is a hyper-competitive instinct there that is unique so the borderline personality disorder definition of what BPD is that is compelled to drag people down now I have had female clients who told me that they experienced this they've told me and I think they probably would have acted him for borderline personality disorder the privately if they feel like somebody is above them or too good then what they'll do is they'll work a situation a premeditated situation to try and prove through projective identification that they're not as good as they are perceiving them to be they are therefore borderlines do this there's predominantly a board line thing the borderline will punish you for their perception of what you've done them for what you are being with a borderline is a very very tricky very very damaging situation because you won't be able to keep up with what you're being punished for they'll punish you for stuff that's only happened inside of their heads they'll also punish you for the vulnerability you've made them feel are in a lot here let's put it here so if I am a borderline and I share something with you and I share maybe I over a because I have an impulse to generate intimacy too quickly it's a very strong impulse amongst board lines to try and accelerate intimacy the next thing I'm going to experience once you're not there the next day two hours later a shame you know what I'm gonna conclude I am NOT going to take responsibility for the fact that I feel ashamed for oversharing with you oh I'm gonna project that outwards and I'm gonna say you you made me feel shame so now what happens now you will be punished because I accelerated intimacy with you and you are the cause of this negative emotion here this is an issue the hyper-competitiveness is an issue because if and I think in the in the case of the individual case of you're the founder of your organization 21 studios I think what happened there in that relationship was he was targeted because the the lady in question perceived him as being higher status than her and the whole effort of you guys all know the backstory of that was a compulsion to lay him low to drag him down and worse I'm not convinced she was even conscious of it because the question would be why choose him of anybody you would choose why would you choose that person and I think it's because of this hyper-competitive instinct bring other people down you see somebody higher status it's offensive it creates shame you must be punished for the shame I feel those of you who are psychologically literate and and I'm not being pompous I mean if you're a nerd you study psychology like if you read the research and you're big in psychology and we start talking about people being punished for shame then you'll see that there is another flavor there I need more room so what what do we call what's the personality disorder the violently and inappropriately punishes other people for making them feel shame it's the psychopath it's a psychopath my pet theory my personal hypothesis for the spate of school shootings that you're seeing the the issue you've got now in America it's actually a shame the people who are doing the shootings and I don't think I'm on my own and I think a few people have said that as well the predominant emotion that drives the shootings is shame people with poor boundaries exploitative entitled personality issues possibly personality disorders they can't own their own feelings they don't know how to process negative emotions they feel shame and they respond the only thing that can wipe out this shame but I'm feeling is massive violence doubtlessly in terms of gender it's going to be men that commit massive physical violence I think what's happening with the female Psychopaths is emotional violence which would manifest as a murderous intent to destroy the previous host so if I have been attached to a host and they have caused me to experience shame by discovering that I'm lying about my identity by discovering that I'm stealing money in the case of Anthony's case by discovering that his wife was operating under a false identity as a prostitute whilst he was married to it and then he presents her with that evidence the end result will be shame and the emotional violence that that will cause will be murderous and I don't think that I'm being excessively dramatic when I use that adjective I think that the end result is the same as in mass shootings it's to wipe out to crush - not to crush it it's not even it's slightly about punishment in the sense of a narcissistic injury and narcissistic rage I want to see you suffer I want to punish you but it's about it's more to do it's worse that punishment means if I've punished you enough then I can be satiated shame can't be satiated it must be wiped out it's the it's the final solution it needs to be a very very extreme response and I believe it is murderous I believe that because the capacity to pick up a rock and stove your head in isn't there pick up we're gonna shoot you isn't there the emotional violence that will be inflicted has a murderous intent to it and there are many men who I've coached now and I'm sure those of you spoken on the forums who've said the same thing many men who told me that it feels like she wouldn't be happy unless she gets what she wants and ultimately it's my death she's looking for my death my destruction I think there's truth to that I suspect it's a symbolic death it's about eradicating shame not killing a human being but the end result is the same if she can cause a suicide or you drinking to death for you doing something stupid and getting yourself locked up for the rest of your life that would have Radek eight the shame that would what ah I can breathe again I can I can live so the rage that this produces is huge it's a it's a very very powerful instinct okay so that's the problem I'm going to very very briefly go through with you the solution the effect on somebody of this kind of abuse of somebody of being with somebody who's psychopathic who is borderline who has hers who is histrionic and highly narcissistic who's projective ly identified you as some sort of archetype of the bad alpha male even when you you might not be very alpha male at all but that's the projective identification at work the effect on you as the target as the target of this kind of abuse is really really deleterious in terms of its effect on your personality there is something called narcissistic abuse victim syndrome and it's a cluster of symptoms that almost exactly matches PTSD so you know as I said before damnit sense of self sense of self emotional dysregulation inclusive of uncomfortable flashbacks these flashbacks may be actual memories of events that you'll get when you're driving when you wake up at two o'clock in the morning when you're going about your daily business you suddenly vividly remember things happening and it produces a shitstorm of uncomfortable emotion all the flashbacks may be purely emotional sudden feelings of overwhelming guilt overwhelming shame overwhelming sadness overwhelming rage so a flashbacks their damaged sense of self emotional dysregulation a greater propensity to use em God what is it called well basically it manifests as addictions the use of coping strategies goes up people self medicate they use alcohol they use over-the-counter drugs and there you street drugs whatever it is addiction to gambling to porn to all kinds of things just to not feel that pain the side effect of all of this is gonna end up with your serotonin levels going down if the serotonin levels go down or serotonin drops listen you don't nobody has depression because their serotonin is low that is a ridiculous non scientific logical fallacy it's it's called am cum hoc ergo propter hoc which means with this therefore because of this so what psychiatry said is because serotonin is low in people with depression they're depressed because the serotonin is like it's ridiculous it's it's it's childish and wrong what happens is when all of this when you've experienced massive trauma and you don't know how to process the overwhelming emotions and grief of that trauma and this starts to kick off your serotonin naturally will drop the problem with your serotonin dropping now everything I've said is mainstream peer-reviewed research backs I said this is me taking something Jordan Peterson said I'm running with the ball a little bit further than he did and I'm gonna do the comm hoc ergo propter hoc thing again but in a different context with this therefore because of this so if the serotonin drops what Jordan Peterson pointed out where there's a story of the lobsters talking about the research amongst lobsters when they climb up the social hierarchy their serotonin levels go up and they posture they pasta bake with the backstraight and they go I came with social hierarchy I'm fucking awesome great and actually when you're tested the central nervous system boosts the serotonin that lets the brain know I'm a fucking awesome Lobster I am look at me when we're back straight posturing off the social hierarchy the higher up you go the more serotonin your brain rewards you with and the lower below it so if you're this is a hypothesis I don't know that it's true I think that what might be happening is as you go up the social hierarchy or serotonin levels increase but why we have decreased levels in serotonin amongst people who are depressed is nothing to do with some biological individualized pathologize thing in them it's because because of their depression they're dropping out the social hierarchy because all of this leads to social isolation and when we're socially isolated we drop in the social hierarchy we're now not significant we're not we're not significant we're not contributing we're not connected we're not offering value the way we tend to think about things is like oh you're an individual you're a consumer you need to receive value it is just as important view as a human animal to be offering value as it is to receive it were tribal creatures we need each other and to help each other and cooperate I suspect increases serotonin levels so be connected with other humans face to face not through the internet but to actually sit with them and talk with them I believe will increase serotonin levels as well contributing as well-being significant being known in your tribe being unique people knowing your name and knowing what you do I think increases serotonin levels if your serotonin levels are up it doesn't matter whether you really are high in the social hierarchy you're going to feel good you're going to feel as though you are which solipsistic lee is the same fucking end effect it's been said so many times that it's a it's a cliche what good is it being super rich super wealthy super successful if you feel like a piece of shit inside it's no good you want to feel good and that is a biochemical effect of I suspect of being higher up in the social hierarchy the project that you have here with what you guys are doing I think is very important because it can help overcome the effect of the trauma through inhibiting this effect social isolation you're in groups and you're working together towards a common goal that should give you significance the capacity to contribute the capacity to be connected and to offer valley offer valley if you're not feeling good think about what you can offer think about how you can contribute these valuing offering value contributing will make you significant and it will increase your connectivity increased connectivity you're higher in the social hierarchy you don't need to be at the top if we switch from red pill and roller definitions of alpha and beta males which you all understand alpha beta females which everybody understands - the psychology the evolutionary psychology the biology psychology of alpha and data or Omega you don't need to be at the top of the pyramid to feel good you do need to be connected offering value and you also personally on your own you must feel on a daily basis like you're making progress so you don't need to be right at the top of the pyramid but you do need to feel like you're involved like you're contributing and like you're somewhere on the pyramid I think some people or a lot of people now they feel so socially isolated so pointless so depressed so anxious so non unique so non significant but they don't even there isn't a pyramid there's nothing there at all and they're desperate for tribe style tribal connections so this is something that you have here my advice to you I'm new to all this very new to all of this is to recognize it for what it is and to use it properly and to make sure that you're contributing so that you are still there on the social hierarchy and you're probably going to find that this is a far better way of dealing with the effects of this trauma and of dealing with the effects of low serotonin dealing with the effects of depression or anxiety then actually trying to get therapy we're trying to take drugs for it ok guys I'm sorry I couldn't be there this year I've got my own medical issues that I'm working with but I hope you enjoyed that and just like to say thank you very much for the opportunity to talk to you thank you to Anthony for the invitation thank you all for your time and for your attention and hopefully I'll speak to you again soon Cheers

Channel: 21 Studios

Views: 728,368

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Id: UE5fZaAzXws

Length: 51min 43sec (3103 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 22 2018