Steve Pankey Jonelle Matthews Cold Case Body Language

and then i didn't hear anything about her until six days after i didn't know who she was or that she had disappeared his wife said no we had an unplanned vacation on the 22nd he dumped our dogs set fire to the somehow set fire to the family car and had it crushed i mean there's all kinds in the details wow that fire to the family car and it somehow burst into flames while he was digging in the backyard i love it so ultimately outside of all of that he's a known he's a known person in his local area for being oh yeah he's been like in trouble for this in trouble for that he's lived in about eight or nine states i think right 20 minutes to meet her that's a good route that's a good sheet man it's a good amount it's a solid yeah that's a solid time um all right i guess are you ready we'll start we're ready let's roll yeah okay let's go all right here we go i'm scott rask i'm a body language expert and analyst i trained law enforcement in the military in interrogation and body language and i created with greg hartley bodylanguagetactics.com mark i'm mark boden i'm an expert in human behavior and body language i help people all over the world to stand out when trust gain credibility every time they speak including some of the leaders of the g7 chase i'm chase hughes i am a behavioral expert number one best-selling author in behavior profiling persuasion and influence and i develop tactics for intelligence agencies and i train the general public greg i'm greg hartley i'm a former army interrogator interrogation instructor resistance to interrogation instructor i've written a bunch of books on body language and behavior and scott and i put together body language tactics.com and i spend most of my time on wall street and in corporate america excellent all right well today we're going to talk about steve panke and steve is in trouble uh for the suspected murder of a girl named jonelle matthews back in 1984. greg you found the video don't you give us a little bit so this is one of those cases apparently this guy showed a lot of interest in the case way back in 1984 which made them a little suspicious of him over time when they found the body i think then there's some other reasons in their long list if you go out and do your research there's a long list of reasons they indicted him he has run for governor of idaho twice he's moved around a lot his story is an interesting one where we got this video is he was willing to sit for an hour on a park bench and talk to a reporter and the parts of the video we're looking at are deep into that interview not the very first part so we'll talk a little bit about his baseline and what we saw but you can find plenty of video of him because he ran for governor twice excellent all right all right well this is a cold case so let's view it that way and we'll get started you ready yeah here we go at least you know it looks as if it was you uh that's commented on a few stories online right the greeley tribune story as well as another one um read the comments one of the comments was who question mark why question mark yeah then another comment was without a deal this may never be resolved right and what what did you mean for uh what do you mean by without a deal this may never be resolved uh just just that without a deal it it may never be resolved what kind of deal are would you be looking for well not necessarily for me i mean it is my son was murdered in 2008. a deal was made to avoid a jury trial and that's how it's done deals are done all the time so if you read all those comments i did say who why okay mark you want to go first yeah sure so you know what this reminds me of if you go back and you um look at one of our older videos on prince andrew there are some similarities to i think to what we're seeing with prince andrew let me take you through it deals are done all of the time and then there's this downward inflection he informs of this deals are done all of the time and then he waits but the interviewer isn't giving him any kind of confirmation that he's buying into this whole thing and he's a long way into this now i mean he built up to this and he and he hadn't really got any explanation but deals are done all of the time so he looks to him do you confirm that and the interviewer comes back with nothing for him so he looks sideways and leans in with that kind of feeling of are you not going with this do i need to give you anything more is this going well for me and it reminds me of prince andrew going so well you see in the navy and that leaning in that look like the interview will go oh i see deals are done all the time oh in the navy i get it well okay let's just call off everything stop the whole interview you've just absolutely you know proved it to us no need for any more interview on this that for me that lean in that ask for confirmation for me is a red flag of something is going on here you really desperately want some confirmation and the interviewer isn't giving it to him i'm going to leave it at that because this is absolutely packed and and and i want plenty of other stuff for others to to cover greg i want to go to you what do you got for yeah so i'm just going to cover two points two very important points he does something we call a push-pull word in here not necessarily for me well hell if you ask me it's not about me if i'm talking about a deal that's certainly not about me when he does that he purses his lips he turns away and the eye blocks as he as he does that is not necessarily about me that's point one when he comes back mark when he's doing that other piece he's starting to educate and you can see it it's almost where he's in his space where he's gonna educate put his head down and drive that from that start paying attention to his lips and him licking his lips and that piece because it's going to build up throughout this as fight or flight starts to get in and i'm going to leave it at that and hand it to what do you got chase if you watch this back you'll see a sudden shift from abdominal breathing to chest breathing and you'll see him hold his breath firmly until he figures out what the question is about and then he you see uh increase in the breathing rate there and there's use of the word not necessarily for me tremendous point of potential deception there but there's a redirect to something called a positive admission so i'm going to admit that this other part of the question was me which is indicative of people who are typically guilty on the behavioral table of elements just write down the numbers he would have scored a 12 and you need an 11 or higher to have a high likelihood of deception explain what that what that table is so the table of elements is a periodic table of all human behavior that my best attempt at such and everything can be added up to include relaxed gestures and stress gestures and everything that we could possibly do someone's swallowing crossing their arms and it's got a deception rating number on every behavior where can we get that chase oh thanks scott go to chasehughes.com right here and download it absolutely free so you can watch the rest of the videos with or the debates hey scott one quick note people have asked us to go back and explain so when i say a push pull word what i mean is a word that has negotiability in it like you say i'm 100 honest well if you're honest you don't need to say 100 or not necessarily me instead of not me right that kind of right perfect perfect all right well now as we go through these in each one of these videos it's important to keep in mind um what we're seeing a lot of people are going to say well there's not a whole lot here this was so packed full of stuff even though there's not a lot it doesn't look like a lot going on body language wise it's packed it's packed and we all forgot the shits and giggles because there's so much in it and so much going on having said that keep in mind that i'll explain to you the way the the the brain works when you when you begin lying lying is a complex task and when you begin lying you're that you use the frontal cortex is engaged because that's where you do all your multitasking that's where all that happens and once that's engaged and you're trying to talk you're trying to do other things to get your point across that's when you start doing things like in in what we saw in in this clip where um what i call loose illustrators well you'll where you'll be talking and the next thing you know your hands are just moving but you're not emphasizing specific words or phrases like illustrators do not like i just said specific words or phrases that's an illustrator those are illustrators another thing we see in here that is that is just beautiful that we see throughout the whole uh through this series of videos we're gonna watch as his head starts shaking like this the whole the entire time that's part of his baseline when he's doing this i watched one of the governor uh when he was running running for governor i watched one of the things that he wasn't doing that so that's not part of his his natural baseline so in this situation he's got so much going on he's trying to think about what he's going to say make sure he gets his point across make sure he's saying it correctly because he's not said this stuff out loud the way he's saying it now before and we'll go over why in a little while so those are really important um to pay attention to why he's doing all this and that's what you're looking for is his brain is firing off so many things because his prefrontal cortex is busy busy busy all right see anybody think anything else yeah i mean just one thing which is look out for that moment where he pauses for a very very long time and goes through a number of very very small movements i would suggest and we see that breathing change as well at that point that i would say is him going hang on what's my strategy going to be here and he can't work it out yeah so he's really he's on his toes here so pay attention to that cadence throughout i think it's an important yeah yeah because it changes often at least you know it looks as if it was you uh that's commented on a few stories online right the greely tribune story as well as another one read the comments one of the comments was who question mark why question mark yeah then another comment was without a deal this may never be resolved right and what what did you mean for uh what do you mean by without a deal this may never be resolved uh just just that without a deal it it may never be resolved what kind of deal would you be looking for well not necessarily for me i mean uh it is my son was murdered in 2008. a deal was made to avoid a jury trial and that's how it's done deals are done all the time so if you read all those comments i did say who why all right here we go let's look at number two and then can you tell me why you want it to be resolved so it's so it's so it's resolved so so it's over with so so that family has the same closure that i have okay that's and also i mean talk about uh wouldn't you like it resolved to maybe have your name cleared or oh absolutely absolutely without a doubt okay greg you want to go yeah so this one i'm gonna give a little bit on i'll try to keep it short this one is so loaded let me first start by saying listen to his mucus membranes crackling as he tries to move his mouth he's mouth grooming meaning he's moving his tongue around that's fight or flight setting it and stress he goes into this so it's so it's so it's resolved that's not the word i think i would typically use that seems like closure might be a word i would use or something i would poke on what do you mean by resolved they know that she's dead so what are you talking about then he does his shoulders up but he doesn't ask for requests for approval he doesn't raise his brow saying hey do you agree with me and then when they get to and i'm gonna just hit one point on this and leave most of it to you guys when they get to would you like your name cleared his brow rise is like oh never never thought of that one and that immediately would make any interrogator turn on him and go after him really hard at no absolutely and then he shakes his head no while he's saying yes absolutely is what i would do so there's that piece of body language that is he uses consistently throughout this messaging for negative when he's saying a positive message scott what do you get all right when he starts saying when he gets to the point where he says absolutely without a doubt his his voice has been fairly strong after that point but then he does what's called fading fading facts whereas it gets quieter as you go along and he seems almost like he's calming down but he's flipping out because his mouth is open quite often quite a bit of the time and going with your thing greg about the fight-or-flight kicking in his mucus and messing with his mouth his mouth is open because you see him take that deep breath and then sort of relax as he starts as he starts uh going along and it starts getting quieter and quieter as he moves along um another thing with his head's sick and no it's going between shaking no and shaking yes and then it does this little indian bobble a little bit back and forth as he's doing that i've never seen this before i've never seen someone do that many little head shakes forward and backward and up and down and side to side before in my life i've never seen this before so this is this is bizarre behavior for me so unless anybody else see anything like that before i i've seen people do that under high duress when they're trying to figure out which way to you know i won't use my eloquent english for what i would usually say but yeah when they're trying to figure out which way they're going i've seen it in the interrogation room yeah okay cool cool all right so that's all i've got for that one so that suggests to me that he's he's he's working and he's working through his he's been confronted with something and he's being deceptive about it all right chase what do you got so we see when he says absolutely and without a doubt we see micro little shoulder shrugs with both of those little phrases we also saw everything everyone else talked about here if i was the interrogator i would say personally what's the most emotional reason that you have for this to be resolved just on a personal level and that would reveal probably a lot more i think we would get either a baseline or a good deviation from baseline from this to catch him up forcing him to bring some kind of fabricated emotion into the conversation and on the btoe behavioral table he only scored an eight for this what do you got yeah lovely so i want to talk about uh my little dog peach because peach is a terrible liar and so her behavior just floods out she doesn't have a part of her brain to kind of hold back that instinct and here's what i see in this character they're watching which is very similar to peach is when peach wants me to play along with the game and play ball she will take the ball and she'll just nudge it along with the nose going are you are you going to play are you coming along with me he does exactly the same thing after he says that family deserved to have so the family have the same closure as i have his head goes to one side and he starts to moderate the conversation by just nudging the ball along a bit watch him to say are you going to play along with this are we going to move along on this together and and uh you know the the interviewer is having none of it he's putting under some real pressure here because he's not going to move along he's not playing along with this so go back to that and watch that and watch that little ball being nudged along by this little puppy brilliant yeah as usual and then can you tell me why you want it to be resolved so it's so it's so it's resolved so so it's over with so so that family has the same closure that i have okay that's and also i mean talk about uh wouldn't you like it resolved to maybe have your name cleared or oh absolutely absolutely without a doubt all right here we go so what's the next one yes one last thing did you did you hear earlier this summer that her body was um exhumed or found i should say yes northern yes i saw that online that's a totally legal thing to do is look online yeah when when when a greely cops come to you and accuse you of or want to talk to you about this it's a pretty prudent thing to go online and check on what see what's the updates so all right chase what do you got yes we have uh something that david givens is the original researcher as far as i know on this topic and this is a chin withdrawal the lower jaw pulls back and away from the interviewer here and that's a kind of a self-regulation he's saying i need to really bring this in this is a big question totally legal this is the first time both of his hands come to life symmetrically or at the same time at least and he almost comes forward off the seat he almost gets his back off the chair here leans forward to get some generating focus generating some more interest and we also see his side preference or gestural hemisphere tendency for positive negative when people do this gesturing thing we see to his right uh when he's talking about the police he's gesturing to his right so if i was the interrogator where would i want him i would want to be on his left and the door to the interrogation room that where all the police are not me of course are to his right we would want to set that up that way just from that short conversation there and he uses the words about this not the incident he was absolutely comfortable saying that his son was murdered he used the word murder very comfortably then he says about this so this is called psychological distancing or severity softening depending on who you talk to instead of steal somebody might say take instead of saying rape somebody might have say have sex with so there's kind of a good stack there i'm going to leave the rest of it alone there's a whole bunch here i think everybody else will unpack on the deception score he scored at 12 for this excellent mark what do you got yeah so i want to get on a couple of things um obviously that's a totally legal thing to do uh to look online yeah yeah it is a totally it doesn't really need saying and the fact that he says it obviously i'm sure as as you you know watching this when you heard that you went hang on hang on we we do the same that was for all of us i think a laugh out loud when he says that because it doesn't need saying that going online is is is legal we know that so if that's legal what does he think isn't a legal thing to do what's the opposite of that would be my inquiry here but i just want to say the other thing i want to say is just how good this interviewer is you know just really good and and there's a lot of colombo fans uh you know on the panel here right now and i'm sure you know watching at home you might be a colombo fan as well the interviewer opens with one last thing which obviously isn't the last thing because we've got a whole bunch of other stuff that we're going to talk about it isn't the last question done but in my understanding that was a classic colombo method of going oh by the way one last thing that thing is just trying to disarm somebody disarm somebody by going oh thank you this is finished okay i can now you know answer and get this person out brilliant fun watching this including the uh interviewer who's clearly a colombo fan as well uh great oh okay um well he and he begins his out of his baseline for what we've seen so far he begins answering a lot sooner than he does with the other ones when he says yes it's like he asks a question then boom there's a yes so this is one of those answers i think he's prepared for so because he's thought about this a lot of these things he hasn't said out loud i don't think anybody's come he's been interviewed about these things but he's been thinking about him since then how to phrase them how to put them together so they sound more believable so he just fires off that yes as he begins to answer also um greg you said is she had it you know 20 20 misdemeanors when you have someone who's gotten away with a lot of things before and they and they're thinking they're going to get away with this as well you'll see him get all giggly about it and that's what we're seeing here he's getting that thing like man this is you know this is nothing for me i i think he feels like he's getting away with this as well because he's gotten away with so many smaller things so many little bitty things we've had the conversation greg and i did about how there may be some other things to look for in the towns he's been lived in so many different places to look into towns if somebody from those police departments are watching look around and maybe there's some things that this guy did in your town that you that you're looking for the answer for start looking at this guy because he looks like he he looks like he believes he's getting away with something and his answer when he leans back and starts getting an answer it doesn't have quite the punch he wants it to have even though he's given it so that's why we see him get another reason we see him get kind of of iffy with all with all that with that behavior greg what do you got yeah so i always talk about fight or flight because it is one of the most powerful things in our bodies and scott you started talking about prefrontal cortex and that starts turning off once you get into fight or flight so once the amygdala identifies the threat then you start dumping stress hormones in your body and that starts to turn off and you start to think like a cat instead of a human you respond and he's doing some of that i rarely have heard that this much dry mouth outside of seer school i mean i've interrogated real prisoners and see your school guys and this sounds like serious school dry dry dry mouth all of the aggression and things that go with that so it takes blood flow away from the mucous membranes and you can't miss it in fact in seer you would see people starting to build up protein in the corners of their mouth from mucous membranes being destroyed by stress only place i've seen it his blink rate increases when he touches his nose this is a stress comforter for him that's an adapter in some way now people will tell you that an absolute if you touch your nose you're lying no but in this you'll see further into the interview he does it in a couple of stress times he also pushes his tongue out and he's been licking his lips all the time but he hasn't pushed his tongue out at accused he leans out drops away into a nervous laugh and scott i think he's flirting with disaster is the term i would use i think he thinks he's got some potential to dance around this thing and he may even be intentionally engaging the police this way but i think he's gonna he's gonna get hooked if he keeps doing what he's doing then he touches his nose and his mouth goes to a blocking maneuver he touches his nose with his hand and his end then or his finger and then his hand goes across in a blocking maneuver chase i think you did a brilliantly eloquent explanation of that once before when a little kid goes it's that same thing they don't even believe what they're saying and that nervous laughter at the greely police we'll see again i think this guy is in for real trouble and if i were interrogating him i would be all over that nervous laugh i would be all over the things where he's talking about if you're accused i would be all over those pieces along with some of the other stuff in the background so thanks that's what i got scott yes one last thing did you did you hear earlier this summer that her body was um exhumed or found i should say yes yes i i saw that online that's a totally legal thing to do is look online yeah when when a greely cops come to you and accuse you of or want to talk to you about this it's a pretty prudent thing to go online and check with see what's the updates so excellent all right we're good yeah all right move forward uh in 1989 we moved i was married at the time we moved to uh ketchum idaho and then shoshone idaho and in shoshone i joined the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints i had a rocky marriage and when they're talking about families live forever it sounded really good to me and um uh when i got the ordination and was baptized and all of that the bishop asked me if there was anything i wanted to confess if there was anything like bothering me that i needed to get off my chest and i said yeah back when i lived in colorado this girl disappeared and i had this weird conversation about it and it bothered me and so um anyway the bishop then told the stake president which is in kerry and they and there was a uh a lieutenant with the sun valley police department who was also in the kerry steak thing i had to clean my glasses there because i just spat my water over my glasses laughing at that this one's funny yeah this is good this one i'm gonna focus on something very odd because it's first time i've ever seen it go first yeah so in this one when he gets asked the question he goes to internal voice as he works out dates now i'm going to give you a great example of that as you sit thinking about where you were in eight months ago on this day think back watch yourself having an internal conversation that's internal conversation when people's eyes drift down to their left and he has an internal conversation and he does this weird thing and this is the one i want to bring up he his he looks left he accesses then he looks right has a really weird eyebrow flash and i wonder what it is but then he tells me what it is because as he's speaking he edits that's what he does when he's editing what he was going to say because you watch him he does exactly the same move again now if i'm interrogating him and i'm sitting across the place and i'm asking him questions now i know when he's making changes to his story and if you're going to interrogate this guy for law enforcement give me a call i'll tell you where to look for it because this is going to be one you can use this guy has a tail that he can't hide you can see it coming i'm going to leave my that because oh there is one last thing i will i will add he does a the nose touching thing that i talked about earlier for stress when he talks about a rocky marriage i think this is a good another indicator for him for stress so there's two you can have if you're going to interrogate the guy chase what do you got yeah so we see a reconfirmation here of his baseline for gestural hemisphere which which is right and left positive and it's so powerful that he gestures to his right which is where all of us would gesture towards the future in a timeline he gestures to the past that direction because that's so hardwired into his hemispheric tendency which i think is a great confirmation video there and he makes this what what i call a mini confession and just a quick wrap of that is from a police standpoint this mini confession is it stems from our natural need to say that something happened i did something we have a need to confess that's why a lot of it is addictive in in churches and there's even confessionals that are non-religious so in a police scenario a guy might be there for a homicide and he might say well you know i i did not commit any murder or anything like that but i i have 13 grams of heroin in the ashtray of my car and i've been meaning to tell somebody about i just want to let you know and then like a domestic scenario a wife is looking through her husband's phone and and she sees hey who's this girl nicole you've been texting everything's been deleted and the husband says well you know it's just somebody from work but i have been meaning to tell you i downloaded this app called tinder a few weeks ago i thought it was just for networking but i deleted it just a couple of days later that's a mini confession and we see some embarrassment here as he's talking about the church and this slight head shake i think is his baseline to communicate that what he's saying is of little significance and he wants you to agree that this is it's just not a big deal this is not a very significant statement it's not a big deal deception score on this is an eight according to chase hughes anyway mark what do you got yeah um so body language wise throughout that there's just too many adapters to even count i mean it's just so rampant with them i just want to leave you at home to kind of go through and go okay there's one there's one there's one there's one there's one um so i want to remind everybody what an adapter is well so it's it's something that you that you're gonna do which is gonna i would say alter the world around you in order to make you feel more comfortable with it because i would suggest psychologically what's happening is you feel like you're not controlling this well but you can control something around you you can control something around your body with your own hands that's that's the way i look at it i don't know whether that concurs with you guys but that's that's the way i go for it uh okay uh here's what i want to uh really uh pick out on is is he's using in his storytelling what we call nested loops which is he's taking you on a journey that just keeps changing location and changing tack and changing tents and changing the characters and it's tiring it's just tiring to listen to this thing because it doesn't get anywhere so by the end of it when he goes you know sun valley police you don't want to question it because you're kind of like i'm exhausted just by going through this long list of things 1989 married married two locations church rocks marriage families live forever cough um ordination baptism bishop confession back where i lived girl disappeared bothered anyway state state uh president um lieutenant sunny valley police i mean it's just it moves from place to place to place to place until you go all right i'll just agree to all of that that's his tack i will just agree to all of that because i don't want to get in there and try and undo this and of course what you do is an interrogator as an interviewer on this is to go yeah i actually do want to uh unravel some of that like tell me about families live forever and that cough what does that mean to you what does it mean what do you mean by families live forever those are some of the places that i want to to go on this it's tiring and quite hilarious to listen to that's what i got excellent all right well here's what i got now i i talk about loping it's something that i coined wherever someone's talking telling a story and they're everything seems fine and in this situation what we're seeing is we're seeing sort of version two of that because we're seeing them loping but at the same time we're seeing what i call um i don't know what to call it but but a contrast in diction because his words are going longer and they're lasting longer there's even though these short words are are you know are small he that takes longer to get him out it's just kind of cruise along at that speed saying speaking like that so we see in his baseline this contrast in diction so it's not like they're really short choppy words we're talking like this and a little fast and the words are going quickly they're just be talking like this where the words are going slowly they're almost stuck together almost syrupy as they go along the part where he talks about where he he talked to the bishop and he said when he asked me is there anything you want to confess there's anything that bothered him and he said yes there was a girl that disappeared he was he was he didn't know how to approach that or he knew how but he was still being careful as he went through this i think what we're seeing here because the way he's he started talking about this and at the point where he says um this girl disappeared didn't bother me and he says uh and so anyway that's bridging he's leaving so much out i mean there's so you can have a sew and that's all you can leave a lot out there you can have an uh and leave a lot out there and you can have again you can have another so but then when he says um anyway that's that's that's the big one that's anyway we went and did this as we're going through that now with all this bridging happening i think here's what happened i think he thought if he confessed to this guy the bishop he's not going to tell anybody so i think what's happened is the bishop went to her the police and said hey man i'm talking to this cat i think he i think he killed his girl so that's when they said okay we'll quit we'll start asking about it because he leaves that part out too he calls it a weird conversation then he goes and and the bishop calls so and so and he's somehow connected to it all and all that is just these little pieces of information he's not saying what happened in that interrogation that he went through here go the edit when he's thinking yep yeah yeah so i think he i think he told i think he i think he spilled this guy and i think this guy said look something's up with this guy i can't tell you everything but trust me something's up with this guy you need to talk to him that's what happened and he's not talking about that and i'm sure those the guys that interviewed this guy interrogating were like that's that's exactly what happened i think i got a hundred bucks and said that's exactly what happened um and the whole time he's doing this we don't see any emotion whatsoever nothing but other than these fake smiles we see because we don't see a duchene smile at all we see almost the giggly little thing but that's not even real either that's just that uncomfortable blurt out of of i'm uncomfortable and i'm trying to move on from this you get what i'm talking about that's what i think happened i think he told somebody i think he told that bishop what happened the bishop goes to the cops because they're not supposed to or whatever and that's what that's that's what's happened there all right we good uh in 1989 we moved i was married at the time we moved to uh ketchum idaho and then shoshone idaho and uh in shoshone i joined the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints i had a rocky marriage and when they're talking about families live forever it sounded really good to me and um uh when i got the ordination and was baptized and all of that the bishop asked me if there was anything i wanted to confess if there was anything like bothering me that i needed to get off my chest and i said yeah back when i lived in colorado this girl disappeared and i had this weird conversation about it and it bothered me and so um anyway the bishop then told the stake president which is in kerry and there and there was a uh a lieutenant with the sun valley police department who was also in the carry steak thing let's move on i'm not accusing the cop of doing whatever caused her demise i'm saying that i think under the circumstances back then that a cop could have been involved in okay they lied a lot to me okay i've talked a lot yeah um all right chase what do you got we see two instances right away of psychological distancing whatever happened to that girl and demise whatever and demise we know it's a murder we already know that his baseline if he's comfortable he says the word murder so there's two there and there's a single shrug at when he says whatever happened to this girl or whatever happened and there's some over politeness here which according to me and a couple articles this self-effacing comment when he's saying i've talked too much is a spike in politeness so a spike in politeness is different than just someone being polite i did an interrogation in los angeles a few years ago and somebody walked into the interrogation room calling me bro and dude the whole time and all of a sudden i started digging down i said has anybody ever seen you take anything from here or here and he goes oh yeah no sir no sir absolutely not sir not at all so that's a spike in politeness so with all of those things added up from this video his uh behavioral table deception score is 16. greg what do you got yeah so a couple things i'm going to give you some homework to go back and look at the rest of the video this guy anytime he is talking his eyes are locked when he breaks the only time you see blink rate really increase on him is when he breaks eye contact it's really interesting to watch i mean some of these will be a 30 second span of video with two blinks that's amazing yeah that's hypnotic stare is what i refer to that as the guy's trying to convince you you'll see him here his cadence now we talk about voice his cadence shifts in this conversation he says i am not accusing the cops of dot dot dot dot doing dot dot dot dot whatever led to her demise that's a lot of editing that's talking and editing at the same time there's also in the case when he says accusing here he breaks eye contact the only time he does it in the entire video i've seen is he breaks eye contact down and that's submission typically most people don't break eye contact down there thinking they move their eyes around and they go from there the other thing is he's got this okay when he's asking for approval when he's wanting to make sure where you're going okay okay and you'll hear it if you go back through the video you'll see it now all this stuff is starting to come come together and then he starts to try to tell his second part of the story first part of the story is i've never heard of this girl before six days after she's dead that's his defense second part of his story is in the cops we're in on it somehow he's starting to tell his conspiracy theory story now he does a lot of requests for approval forehead comes up you don't see that through the rest of the video it's when he hits these things he's trying to convince you of you see the brow rise that's what i got um scott um here we see his he's speaking a little louder comparatively to the way he's been talking so far it's almost like this when he gets out about the cop and he's talking about how they could he could have been involved the cops could have been involved he again goes those short choppy words he goes from the longer words of their long and like that that goes to those short choppy words and he sounds a little more the sound is a little more aggressive toward this so i think this is a rehearsed answer well one he's he's said before because apparently he has a big back story with his with his conspiracy theory there so um so i think the sad answer was ready there's no emotion here again except for what sounds like anger but that's going to happen when you're dealing with psychopath you're gonna get a little you're gonna get a little bit of that uh and then i've got uh three things that i had to check off because of you and chase greg so uh mark what do you got yeah so let's look at the logic that he gives before that okay to try and see whether we're going to play along with this i'm not saying a specific cop murdered someone that's fair yeah i am i am saying a cop could have murdered someone well yeah that's yeah yeah a cop could have murdered someone yeah absolutely so it's very that is brilliantly structured because it's hard for us to not say well yeah okay that's a possibility a cop could have murdered someone but a specific cop that would be an absolute allegation of somebody specific but we can sign up to the second idea which means hey maybe we can sign up to the first idea he's putting in something very easy for us to logically sign up to there and doing the okay and actually the interviewer is great clearly doesn't give him the okay on that goes i'm not signing up to any of that here's what i really love though if you go in there and you play that final bit um after i've talked a lot what you'll see is one frame where the side of his mouth comes up into a half smile i'm willing to put a hundred dollars for scott on we're seeing jupiter's delight there i think it's fast enough i think it's fast enough and it's just in the right place around i've talked a lot and that idea of yeah and i've talked some really good stuff i quite enjoyed some of my stuff that i did there that was pretty that was pretty smart stuff that i just did i think we're seeing jupiter's delight now i could be i could be wrong because it's a really tricky one it's a really tricky one but at home watching this why don't you put in the comments what you think do you think i'm right do you think i'm wrong you you be the judge yeah that's what i got excellent all right well that's pretty good i'm not accusing the cop of doing whatever caused her demise i'm saying that i think under the circumstances back then that a cop could have been involved in it okay they lied a lot to me okay i've talked a lot all right let's move on i think if i simply state the truth and i didn't know she existed or disappeared until six days after the fact once that's established okay i had this short conversation now if you know i i would like to have my name cleared yeah they've got all of this stuff they have really screwed up my life by taking all of that stuff i don't think they're going to find anything but i think they're going to leave this shadow of this appearance of evil with me theoretically we'd be talking we'd be fighting over who gets to go first on this one so uh who wants who wants to go first i'll make mine short this is simple never mind the elephant in the room i don't think they're going to find anything hell i i guarantee you that i find anything in my house just that's pretty simple the next piece is here's his whole story i didn't know about this girl if you buy that okay then it must be somebody else and it is them trying to hurt me yet again and here's what they're going to do that's his whole story he just did his closing argument early in the game because this is actually earlier than some of the other stuff his body language i'll leave all the nuanced body language and all of that tweaking and moving alone and then there's cadence listen to that cadence that chop chop block block block chop chop block block navigating a minefield that's what i got right chase what do you got so i'll just cover two things here there's a prolonged eye contact again where he's selling this hard i think he blinks one time as he's talking about this thing i didn't know she existed or even disappeared didn't know but mark made a brilliant video of us talking about i think it was andrew uh when we're removing ourselves a certain number of times from something and in his initial part of the statement he says i think well if i simply state the truth in and he says the word in in this statement so that's i'm going to count it as four there were five total we'll count it as four some of those things we'll lump them together and we see some concealed uncertainty here with the gorilla in the room that greg mentioned and there's a failure to clearly state that you were accused of something you didn't do we see this with bill clinton we saw this with anthony weiner we saw this with colonel russell williams who is a canadian air force colonel a failure to clearly state that you're being accused of something we see it with guilty people all the time total deception score 14. mark what do you got that's a big score that's a big score uh chase i know that you love it when i bring in the romans but at this point i'm going to go to thessalonica because i think it's a great place to go because yeah that's all article he was he was in my first period class in the eighth grade [Laughter] so thessalonica uh the the the thessalonicans um in it's a bible verse there's a verse in the bible and it says abstaining from the appearance of evil not only the idea of just staying away from evil but if you're a a godly righteous person you should stay away from even the appearance of something evil what he says is they'll leave the shadow of the appearance of evil with him well that's really interesting because in order to create a shadow of evil you would need somebody to cast light onto that evil and that evil to block that light so you would get the shadow of evil the metaphor here i would suggest in his mind is there is something evil here that can cast a shadow i think if he didn't think there was anything evil there he would go um that they are casting the the shadow of evil that they are the evil one but their light their investigation has hit something solid and evil and that has cast the shadow yeah it's it's it's maybe a bit out there as an interpretation but these images exist in our in our head and they live in our head and there may be something truly real about this image that has conjured in his head and created this metaphor around the shadow of the appearance of evil there that's what i got i hope you liked that one chase that was brilliant you didn't have to make up a word for it but uh wow that was yeah see how she'd gone last that's why i try to make you go last on these things but now here's me with i gotta go back to the brain on this and we're again we're dealing with that prefrontal cortex that thing is on fire right now at the same time it's fighting to stay alive because it's being shut down by fight or flight so as it's burning to to help him multitask it's being shut down because he's almost in a panic state at this point so that's why we're seeing him that that's why we see every bit of body language we're looking at it in this which has been covered by everybody else that's what we're seeing and how he's talking even though his words get choppier and smaller and faster as he goes along and he stops and they go and they're all choppy and small so there's no loping in here he's just fighting his way through it as his brain is taken along and fighting to stay to keep that part of his brain open so i think that's what we're seeing there which just nails down the deceptive i'm gonna chase on this deception through the roof man on what's the highest you go on your scale chase it's unlimited so hypnotic eye contact i'll give him 100 points i mean just the phrase i did not have sexual relations with that woman scores a 16 by itself yeah okay i think if i simply state the truth and i didn't know she existed or disappeared until six days after the fact once that's established okay i had this short conversation now if you know i i would like to have my name cleared yeah they've got all of this stuff they have really screwed up my life by taking all of that stuff i don't think they're going to find anything but i think they're going to leave this shadow of this appearance of evil with me so if you like this show go ahead and subscribe and hit the like button and we're all good i'll see you guys next time did you kill janelle matthews absolutely not so

Channel: The Behavior Panel

Views: 84,275

Rating: 4.944736 out of 5

Keywords: steve pankey, jonelle matthews, steve pankey arrested, idaho, crime, true crime, governor of idaho candidate arrested, true crime cold case, true crime headlines, jonelle matthews theories, boise idaho, cold case, news, greeley news, crime documentary, colorado news, real crime, crime stories, true crime documentary, body language, behavior panel, lies, reading body language, body language analysis, body language expert, missing, the behavior panel

Id: pZ28tGx7TWQ

Length: 53min 11sec (3191 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 21 2020