Skyrim vs Oblivion - The Thieves Guild - Which is BETTER?

what's going on ladies and gentlemen my name is Michael and welcome to fight puppet throughout the Elder Scrolls games joinable guilds have provided for some of the most memorable experiences for me the Thieves Guild of Elder Scrolls for oblivion had many sensational moments I'll never forget and fully immersed me in a world where I truly lived and breathed being a thief I can honestly tell you that I really felt like I was that stealthy Khajiit I was playing rising my way through the ranks making a name for myself and living out of a quaint wooden shack in the Imperial waterfront district there's no doubt that oblivion captured my imagination more than Skyrim but that's not to say it's a better or worse game after all I played oblivion when I was quite young at an age when it was easier to feel immersed and ever since then the nostalgia of those unforgettable childhood experiences keeps my love for the game forever strong if you've heard me talk about Skyrim's Thieves Guild on the channel before likely in an Elder Scrolls 6 discussion then you may remember me saying that the Thieves Guild in Skyrim should have focused more on being a thief and less on delving through dungeons while I still agree that an even stronger focus on thievery would have made the guild better I've undertaken a deeper look at the Thieves Guild from both games and it turns out Skyrim's 1 is actually pretty decent is it may be even better than Oblivion's in this video we're going to dive deep comparing all the things necessary to discover which guild is actually better have I been blinded by my nostalgia goggles in the past well listen closely and you'll find out what I will say is that Skyrim Steve skill turned out to have much more to commend than I remember I will say that oblivion has a much more Robin Hood vibe to it all whereas Skyrim's is harsher and more criminal but vibe is preferential so let's try to focus on what we can fairly compare between the guild experiences of both games oh and spoiler alert starting out we have the discovery of the guild itself and how to join it without a doubt this isn't where Skyrim wins in Skyrim you head into Rifton and very soon a guard tells you welcome to Rifton home of the Thieves Guild or so they'd have you believe it's all lies they're just thugs vermin creeping around the right way so straightaway the guard has acknowledged the existence of some kind of group of criminals existing in the city and told you where they are you can easily figure out where this rat way is by spend a very short amount of time exploring the city and if you go explore there you'll soon end up in the Ragged flag and discovering the hideout of the Thieves Guild turns out it is a real organization after all but has been struggling through some hardship as of recent times however this isn't actually how you discover the Thieves Guild no you don't use your own initiative instead it's even simpler heading into Rifton marketplace you're approached by a so-called merchant named brynee off he says that extra hands are paid well in his line of work and asks you to help him frame a shopkeeper by planting a stolen ring in his pocket someone wants him put out of business and he can't be a competitor if he's placed in jail and so brynee off creates a distraction in the marketplace drawing the crowds attention while you steal a ring from one merchant and place it in another's pocket burn-off tells you that he's glad he picked the right person for the job and that you should head to the right way which is where the group he represents is not surprisingly this group is the Thieves Guild this quest does a good enough job of introducing you to the atmosphere of the Thieves Guild in Skyrim as it shows that they're not as honorable as the guild in Oblivion they're all about taking jobs and getting paid it's just business the problem with this however is that joining the guild is forced down your throat you're approached by brynee off with this whole shill operation and if you're doing the main storyline you're even directed to talk to him to learn the location of Esbern again shoehorning you into joining the guild what's also poorly written is the fact that you can actually spare the merchants brand Shae by dropping the ring telling brynee off you lost us he won't be very happy but you still get to proceed to the next quest and join the guild if he was scouting for talent why would he just let you into the guild if you failed his quest even if you get caught and a guard arrests you you still get to progress onwards so it's not that the quest itself is bad it's just that having it forced upon you ruins the mystery of finding the guild yourself and being able to join even if you fail cheapens how proud you feel as a member there's even hand-holding on a statistical level once you're informed of the plan you get a hidden perk increasing pickpocket chance by 30% making planting the ring much less likely to fail but the hidden buff is then removed once the quest is complete then after you get to the ragged flagon regardless of if you failed or succeeded in bringing offs plan you hear him talking about you saying I'm you this one is different we all know that the main game of Skyrim is quite the power fantasy making you by default to be the highly powerful Dragonborn prophesized to save the world so it's interesting when you dig into it just how far this extends to other areas of the game as even the Thieves Guild recruiter sees you as special and different regardless of your current thief skill levels and whether or not you failed at planting the stolen ring he then gives you another task promising you that if you complete it successfully you'll get a permanent place in the organization you must recover debt from three citizens of Rifton and you can achieve this by exploiting their weaknesses or beating them up it's a criminal activity but it's a far cry from being a stealthy thief instead of proving yourself as a talented thief you're just a thug and thugs can already be hired by the guild without joining up as fully fledged members brynnie off makes it very clear that you shouldn't kill any of them but if you do he just gets angry and lets you join the guild anyway can you imagine if you'd failed to plant the ring then kill the people owing money and then he still lets you into the guild and believes in you it's not the main experience for many players but the fact that it's possible is worthy of critique however the main point here is that it's not a very thief like introduction to a thief's guild you then gain access to the secret entrance to the cistern area of the ragged flagon with the entry being disguised in Riften graveyard here's an area where Skyrim does win some points that is a really cool entrance and the ragged flagon the cistern and all the characters that end up joining the guild over time make it a really cool environment in Oblivion there's no real hideout filled with characters until the end of the game where you unlock it and it appears in the garden of dare loss and while it feels special because you earn it at the end it's not as cool as Skyrim's hideout Oblivion's thieves guild is less centralized though and its members are generally more spread out by using secret meeting spots in a variety of changing contacts to receive messages from it makes the guild feel more secret and harder for guards to address I'd say which style you prefer is subjective but I think it's worth acknowledging that Skyrim's Thieves Guild hub especially once you pimp it out is pretty awesome oddly after completing the debt collecting quest bring your friends as guild ranks when he says despite your mistakes I see more potential in you than half the snot-nose to footpads that stumble their way into the flagon which is weird seeing as there's no ranked progression in the guild [ __ ] ranks later for now let's compare this discovery and joining process in Skyrim to that experienced in Oblivion in Oblivion you don't even have a chance to prove yourself to the guild so you can join their ranks unless you can actually find them in the first place I think we could all agree this is much more interesting and feels cooler than having them just come to you for stepping foot in a city there are basically three methods you can use to discover the Thieves Guild in Oblivion one method is actually going to prison if you get a bounty and the guards catch you you'll be approached by a representative of the guild telling you that there's a meeting being held at the garden of Dale off in the waterfront district of the Imperial City at midnight the more mainstream method is by walking around the Imperial City and seeing one of the many wanted posters for the infamous master thief the gray fox this will then become a new conversation topic with citizens after asking around you'll hear that the beggars are the eyes and ears of the gray fox beggars will deny his existence but if you get their disposition high enough they'll reveal the truth leading you to the meeting finally there's a really specific way that makes me appreciate the little details added by Bethesda to certain quests in Breville there's an Argonian known as city swimmer you can ask her about Breville and then receive the option to say gosh thieves guild what's that then you can ask about the gray fox and she'll tell you about the meeting overall this leads to a much more mysterious and rewarding first encounter with the Thieves Guild as you have to track them down yourself or be a criminal in the first place for them to acknowledge you but this is just finding them to actually be accepted as a member you'll have to compete with others proving that you're the best to other budding thieves who become recurring characters in the storyline compete with you to steal a diary one is an Argonian named mu say who is quite hopeless only one of the method L puts up a challenge if you don't beat her to the diary the quest actually progresses and you can still win by pickpocketing the diary from her as she leaves the targets house or you can steal it from a locked chest in her house while she sleeps clearly there's much more to the Oblivion initiation quest than the Skyrim one and guess what you can actually lose so if you lose what happens is that instead of just letting you join anyway like they do in Skyrim you're given a second chance a second fighting chance that is you have to use lockpicks to break into the fighting chance sword shop in the Imperial City avoid the guard dog and steal the owner's antique Cutlass if you kill during the quests you still succeed but unlike Skyrim you have to pee blood price to armand as punishment in skyrim you do miss out on three bonus potions by a killing but they aren't anything special anyways there's no doubt that Oblivion's guild has more depth and is more rewarding when it comes to how you discover them and how you join their ranks officially but what about the main quests within the plot line which guild shines more here first let's go through the guild plot in Oblivion not including the quest title for fencing gold between quests nor the quest listed for rejoining the guild if you get exiled the Thieves Guild in Oblivion has 12 quests these quests are split between three quests givers two of them being doyon Czar Mont Kristoff and skreever and the other being the grey fox himself out of these twelve quests almost every single one involved stealing things finding the Thieves Guild doesn't require stealing unless you did it to become a criminal and get contacted but to actually join you have to steal that diary that's the first two quests done then you are sent to infiltrate the south watchtower to sneak past guards and steal back tax records and money collected unfairly from the poor residents of the waterfront district you're then sent on a mission to chatting hole yet again to steal this time is statuette the bust of la fossa upon taking it back to the waterfront district you find the area crawling with guards turns out your job was a setup to expose a traitor in the guild and after speaking with master Adele who has since found her way into guild ranks you sneak into the traitors house plant the statuette in there and alert the guards to it ending the investigation and putting the traitor in jail we're done getting quests in the waterfront district and will now report to a Khajiit in Breville scream aah the next quest involves heading to Leia Wynn to track down a ring stolen from a former thieves guild member a dodgy by someone not in the guild turns out it's that Argonian from the joining challenge named amis a the ring actually belongs to countess Alesia Caro and mu say stole it from a dodgy tried to ransom it back to the countess and failed losing the ring and getting locked up learning of a secret passageway in the castle you use it to reach the private quarters of the contest where you steal the ring on the way you pass through a secret Argonian torture chamber which is super cool following this you find out the guards have invaded the waterfront district again this time in search for the gray fox you meet up with Mara Dell who is getting five thieves to steal five artifacts from different places in the city all at the same time you sneak into the majors guild and steal Romeo's ice staff from the room of the Archmage leaving a note from the gray fox upon returning to the waterfront district aid Remora opens a portal and hands the watch captain hieronymus lakhs a note which closes down the search operation then being a noble thief you actually replanted the ice staff into the house of an arcane university researcher next you end up infiltrating skin grad jail in search of a thief theranos who went missing while tracking down a book through a variety of methods to gain access one being the infamous slop Drudge being paid to feed prisoners you find out information which leads you to access secret passageways through the castle following blood on the floor you then come face-to-face with the pale lady a vampire who regularly takes prisoners and harvests their blood after slaying her you find Thorin is dead but his Argonian cellmate surprise it's a me say is still alive you escape skin grad castle together and he gives you the location of the book it's the first mission the Thieves Guild sends you on that doesn't technically involve stealing but because it involves quite a creative jailbreak with a prisoner the quest still gets plenty of thief's points from me after this you finally get to put a big Thieves Guild threat out of business that captain of the guard in the Imperial City hieronymus Lex gets transferred to anvil after you steal a recommendation letter have it forged to by a man named a stranger break into Legion offices to use an official seal on it and then deliver it to the Countess of anvil from here on you receive your quests directly from the gray fox in the flesh the legend who stole the Cal of nocturnal from the Daedric Prince herself you meet him in a new location each time before he sends you to steal something of great importance and mystery first you must head into the draw mountains where you infiltrate the temple of the ancestor moths making your way through catacombs to steal Sevilla's stone a special item which is used for scrying it's a lot of fun stealing from a group of people who are wearing blindfolds and can't see but a highly alert due to strong monk-like perception after being sent by a moose a to meet the grey fox in a new location we head to Breville castle to steal a special arrow from the court wizard known as the arrow of extrication after searching his room we find a secret passageway to an extensive underground grotto home to conjurer's Daedra and the giant slaughter fish this epic adventure common 8 sinew reaching fattest Aaron's tower where you find only the arrowhead we then arrived at the last quest before the finale it involves tracking down the boots of spring-heeled Jack a famous thief who died 300 years ago wearing his enchanted shoes when you get these boots they make you jump much higher and it's so much fun to use them after a bunch of detective work investigating a so-called descendent of spring-heeled Jack named the Earl of imbel you end up in a crypt under his mansion finding it littered with vampires turns out the Earl is a vampire too and is in fact Springhill Jack himself kept alive by vampirism after big fight you end up with the boots it's another one of the only quests that doesn't involve being a thief but still involves some sleuthing around and getting a thief based artifact after this you're fetched by the gray fox for the ultimate heist the gray fox used sevilla stone to scry two of the most important obstacles and gives you up with the now restored arrow of extrication the boots of spring-heeled Jack and a key to the Imperial Palace sewers this fan-favorite quest begins with you breaking into the imperial palace to activate the glass of time which is basically a giant hourglass found among other oversized objects including a club a throne and a big crystal ball after activating the glass of time you can gain access to his own in the sewers known as the old way which can lead you to the heart of the Imperial Palace battling or sneaking your way through this underground ayleid ruin you end up pulling off a long distance shot with your single arrow of extrication to open a special entrance to the guard quarters from here you finally reach the elder scrolls library walking in and sitting down in the reading chair as if you were silly a camera in herself will have the blindfolded moth priests bring you the elder scroll you can't go back the way you came so stealing the Elder Scroll you sneak upstairs and exit through the chute under a fireplace it's a very long jump and for this you'll need to wear the boots of Spring Hill Jack to cushion your fall they're destroyed in the process unless you have super high health and acrobatics allowing you to survive without equipping the boots keeping them intact after going back to the gray fox with the grand prize he weirdly gives you a ring to present to the Countess of anvil and upon doing so she recognizes it as the ring of her long-lost husband then a stranger the one who helped you forge those documents earlier in the plotline comes forth he reveals that he was in fact the gray fox who received the cowl of nocturnal from a previous guild master which was originally stolen by Emma delyth the curse of the cowl is that it erases the histories and memories of everyone who knew them but he figured out how to use an elder scroll to break the curse the curse has been lifted and now he can be with her again you're then given the uncursed cow and are promoted to being the legendary grey fox in removing the curse history has been changed and now the guild hall near the dell loft gardens has been restored you've got your guild masters quarters there and now you're the leader of the guild with the cool crib and a powerful mask it's a pretty epic quest line but I could definitely critique that it does reuse the whole secret Castle passageways theme a bit much it happens in lair winds skin grad and anvil in relatively quick succession and then in Breville too it's still fun though and of course the ultimate heist is breaking into the palace using a secret path but that's on a whole other level also all of those instances where you found em Yusei wrapped up in your quest situations could feel a little unbelievable becoming the gray fox at the end feels very earned after everything you've been through and it's helped by one of the benefiting structures of oblivion guilds ranks the entire time I've been going through these quests you've got to realize that the character is gaining respect and being told how they're progressing through ranks first you're a pickpocket then a footpad then a bandit then a prowler then a cat burglar then a shadow foot then a master thief and then the gray fox in Skyrim you don't have ranks so you're a new guild member and then before you know it BAM you're a nightingale but even that's not a guild rank the guild rank would be guild master which you reach by doing all the missions for the guild end by completing the main plotline but there's no ranks in between to gauge your progress with if ranks were added to Skyrim it would improve the pacing dramatically all of your progression as a thief would feel steady and you'd always be aware of where you stand in the guild besides having a strong plot revolving around being the most epic thief in Tamriel with constant rank progression there's even more that helps to enhance the thieving experience in Oblivion so to actually unlock the ability to begin the next main quest and therefore progress your rank the player is forced to embark on their own thief's adventures stealing items on their own accord and selling them to guild fences these fences are people who buy stolen goods from you and each quest requires a higher amount of fenced gold as you progress through the story line you do unlock new fences to sell stolen items to the fences have relatively unique personalities but so do the ones in Skyrim to be fair in Skyrim you have Tony Lea in the Ragged flagon malice Mathias in the honing broom eatery after you take it over Gollum I the shady Argonian in solitude if you keep him alive there's that high off in the Windhelm marketplace named neuron yay who is unlocked after completing the Windhelm special job or reputation quest which is a topic we'll go over soon Endon in markov is another fence unlocked after a special job quest then there's Anthea the wood elf from the College of Winterhold who is involved in the Dwemer Museum quest finally there are three different Khajiit fences who can be unlocked who travel with trading caravans there's also those for shopkeepers that open up in the Ragged flagon as you complete each reputation quest but technically they're not fences per se in Oblivion you started out selling stolen goods to a grumpy Nord in Brewer named on guard the world weary you then progressed to a cheeky Argonian fence in layin dodgy who has the infamous white oak Ajit lick their butts joke then we had the very flirty Luciana Galena who worked behind the counter at the lonely suitor lodge in Breville another fence was the Red Guard blacksmith literally working for royalty within anvil Castle named Orin and finally there was fattest poulos a rich dark elf man from the Imperial City who also has a side first personally I found the fences in Oblivion more memorable but with a side-by-side comparison I'd say there's more fences and more interesting ones in Skyrim so fencers is definitely an area where Skyrim wins besides nostalgia the reasons the ones in Oblivion seem more memorable as fencers to many people is likely due to the fact that you weren't forced to sell two fences in Skyrim turns out this could be a flaw in the guild experience you see in Skyrim if you weren't focusing on being the guild master and just pursued the main storyline and ended up as a nightingale you weren't forced to do those radiant thief quests nor sell to fencers and this ladies and gentlemen is a very significant factor that contributes to why oblivion feels like much more of a thief's experience you see while Skyrim is criticized for shoving joining the Thieves Guild down your throat and rightly so it is actually oblivion which shoves the thieving itself down your throat if you do not go and break into places and still loot to sell you simply cannot begin the next quest unless of course you steal so much value at once that it reaches the requirements of multiple quest stages but here's the thing oblivion shoving the thieving down your throat this way isn't actually a bad thing in fact if Skyrim made you do the special jobs and the radiant quests in between the main missions it would have felt very different especially if you went up ranks as you stole more things allowing you to complete more main quests will explore Skyrim's plot soon but I will say now maybe including ranks and having the player get titles about how good they are at being a thief would make the story writers actually realize that the main plot should have included more of a focus on stealing being a thief in between main story missions but not during main story missions obviously wouldn't cut it outside of the main plot these thieving radiant quests could be done to expand the guilds influence and reputation and were necessary in making new guild master as you'd target certain cities in Skyrim and do these quests you'd eventually get a special job quest eventually you got the guards in your pocket and you got new shops in your base and it all felt quite cool unlike Oblivion which just had you fence gold from anywhere which was fun that realistically often just involved you breaking into one good store and taking every single thing inside Skyrim had a variety of radiant quests Delvin had three types and vex had four keeping with the spirit of oblivion where you could get creative and do it yourself one of delve ins missions the bedlam job simply involves stealing 500 gold worth of loot without being seen by anyone in one of the major five cities but then on top of this there's other job types the fishing job involved pickpocketing from a randomly selected npc in one of the main cities without being caught the numbers job had you sneaked into a random shop in forged numbers in their business ledger than from vex there were the burglary heist shill and sweep jobs burglary involves stealing a specific high-value item from a random house the items include things like a golden urn a jeweled candlestick or an ornate drinking horn the highest job involves breaking into a business and stealing a gem or piece of jewelry from a strongbox the shield job involves breaking into a random targets property and planting an item in there finally the sweep job involves the same list of random valuable items as the burglary job except you're swiping three of them from one wealthy house with seven different radiant thief Eve job quests one of them being the same as Oblivion's Skyrim smashes it the difference in experiencing the guild however partly comes down to structure as you weren't forced to do these seven mini quests during the main plot of Skyrim skilled whereas in Oblivion you were 100% required to fence gold between quests now Skyrim also has 12 main quests in its main storyline but only if you include under new management which is the Umbrella quest for doing all those radiant quests growing the guilt of prominence and becoming the guild master otherwise there's just eleven main story quests however this doesn't include the fact that the guild offers those special job quests I've mentioned after doing enough radiant job missions in a certain main city you get a special quest for this city area when arrested in a city you've done the extra quest for you'll get the option to bribe guards without the bribery perk furthermore your Thieves Guild headquarters improves your infamy gradually attracts for additional merchants in the Ragged flagon and when you complete the third and fourth jobs you also get new recruits joining the guild completing these special jobs also races the gold available for all of your fences up to a maximum of four thousand and the ragged flagon even gets aesthetic bonuses there are banners on the wall and a carpet placed in the center platform in the middle of the room in the system then of course there's the quests themselves the one for windhelm is called Somerset shadows you're sent to take out a rival faction of thieves who come from the summerset isles you infiltrate their headquarters burn their banner and take down their leader you gain the thanks of toast and cruelty who believes they murdered his daughter and stole her silver locket in Whiterun you do the imitation amnesty quest to gain the support of the battle bonds turns out one of old Fred's old war buddies is wanted for murder in solitude and was arrested for drunkenness in Whiterun to save him from being executed you have to infiltrate the yells chambers in Dragons reach stealing a letter which warns of his friends true crime and then you need to change his name on the white run prison registry all while remaining hidden and who could forget a solitude special quest the dainty slowed here you're sent by an influential Thane and businessmen in solitude named Erica to get a hold of a very rare illegal substance named Balmorra blue and plant it in the dainty slowed ship the aim is to frame the captain of the dainty slowed after he neglected to honor an established trade agreement this gets solitude in the Guild's pocket then of course there's the Markov job where you must travel to a bandit den to recover a silver mold that was stolen the location looks like a quaint cottage but has the whole bandit hideout built underneath it there's plenty of traps a sweet treasure room and of course a nolle bandit leader after stealing the mold back you'll gain power in Markov and as usual you actually unlock barrels known as thief caches which appear around Tamriel and refill with loot as time goes by they have a Thieves Guild shadow mark on them which is another cool touch to Skyrim's thieves guild after completing all these quests and the main storyline you were made guild master in a ceremony with all of the Thieves Guild members kaalia and maven blackbriar you get the cool guild master armor the amulet of articulation and a key to the chest neither guild masters desk so Skyrim wins when it comes to additional quest content and I'd also say it has cooler armors and weapons to get your hands on while we're on a probe Skyrim rampage I'd also like to say that it seems Skyrim has more interesting characters in the guild in general yes the gray fox in Oblivion was cool and mont christophe method L and M you say was solid - but screever wasn't anything special and there weren't too many memorable others the main thing for me in Oblivion was more that there were so many characters and they were all spread out in all different places you didn't expect there also wasn't much interaction between the different characters Skyrim's feeling of a tighter gang with a more criminal vibe provided for better characters that was Delvin with his amazing voice crook cheeky personality and two mysterious ties to the Dark Brotherhood vex was cold and tough and brynee all felt like a true friend Carlyle was also an intriguing character and members can be found to bicker amongst each other and have various relationships - for example vekl the man who is the bartender in the ragged flagon has a relationship with Tony Lea defense there's also the highly arrogant bouncer - who can be found in the flagon also in the guild there's a whole gang of individuals who are actually given interesting backstories there's roon who was found abandoned near a shipwreck and has been trying to find out about his past there's former jailbreaker Sonora Kendal there's Etienne Ranas who joins if you free him from the Thalmor embassy there's the ruin Viper the fleet sapphire and even the former bandit Trin then as the members who join once you've actually done the special reputation quests such as Gotha the cocky Nord thief and Ravan immun a former morag tong assassin there's also some side quests related to the characters such as recovering journals for vekl the guild is also involved with the very well-known no stone unturned quest which involves you recovering the crown of Baron Ziya with the insight of vex after finding all twenty-four stones of Baron SIA but how about the main story well as I was saying there's eleven main story missions outside of the quest for becoming guild master we've covered the first two which were planting the ring and collecting debts next you're sent on a much cooler mission to infiltrate golden glow' estate the Thieves Guild was allowed to extort huge money from the owner in return for staring off business competitors ensuring his honey flowed constantly to maven blackbriar recently the shipments have ceased and mercenaries are guarding the property your job is to investigate and teach the owner a lesson breaking in is a lot of fun and you can actually use a secret sewer entrance that vex tells you about you have to burn down we beehives and then sneak inside steal the safe key and then unlocked the safe taking the Golden Globe bill of sale to get the care you can pickpocket the owner persuade him to hand it over or kill him it's pretty fun bit more so if you do it stealthily but again suffers from that same Skyrim issue of it being hard to fail if you kill the mercenaries or the owner there's no problem and I think it it'd be cooler if you had to avoid killing entirely before you go make sure you grab the queen bee statue on the nightstand to sell to Delvin what's that you may ask well there's also a side quest called the litany of larceny where you can recover items for Delvin during your Thieves Guild main quests other items include the honing brew decanter the east empire shipping map the model ship the Dwemer puzzle cuba the bust of the grey fox and the left eye of the FAL ma it's a nice addition to the main story making it feel more Fifi than it turns out to be but so far this estate infiltration quest fits the thief's criteria well enough but the following one not so much so next up you go to sabotage haunting broom eatery in Whiterun by poisoning the supplier ahead of an official tasting the goal is to put mavens competitor out of business its espionage which is illegal and yes it brings a cool vibe being the criminal you are but you don't really have to sneak past anyone or steal something valuable there's the mage in the cabins you go through but he's just a random hostile you can kill if you want to you'll eventually find a promissory note which you'll take with you which has the same author's symbol as the document from the previous mission afterwards speaking to the guild leader Mercer will have him conclude the guild is being plotted against by an unknown competitor and that a name mentioned on the bill belongs to a former contact of the guild golem I this sneaky Argonian can be found in the winking Skeever in solitude but you won't be able to shake him down for information easily you can bribe him with special wine you can steal which is a little fee fee but it's very simple he explains he was approached by a mysterious woman who gave him lots of gold to buy golden glow' estate with he says she directed a lot of anger towards Mercer you then tail him out of Solitude and throughout the east Empire company warehouse it's a very fun experience and while you're not stealing anything it's still a very stealthy mission unfortunately as you will see your experience in the guild kind of makes it feel like this Elfi investigators guild rather than a Thieves Guild sneaking past the mercenaries and staying out of their sight you end up making your way through a hidden grotto you'll want to stay out of Gollum eyesight to who constantly checks around then there's bandits so going past these bandits which you are allowed to kill you'll get to the end of the cave and speak to Gollum eye again he'll reveal the name of the mysterious woman to be Carl aya a dark elf thief said to have murdered the previous guild master galas alternatively you can just kill Gollum i stealthily and find answers from a different source of information a written confession however this will make you forfeit the payment telling mercer he deduces carlisle will be found to the north of Rifton in a ruin named Snowville sanctum and so begins the next quest which reveals a lot but gets zero thief points from me mercer does lockpick the entrance of the ancient Nordic ruin which is cool but really you just do a dungeon crawl past dragger and traps Carlile left behind until she shoots you with a poison arrow causing you to fall to the floor immobilized her and Mercer have a conversation revealing that it was actually him who betrayed the guild and knowing he would defeat her in combat Kalle air drinks an invisibility potion and disappears Mercer comes over to you thinking you're dying and says gala says history has repeated itself he stabs you and walks away leaving you to die you regain consciousness outside with Carlisle has actually taken care of you and he used a unique paralysis poison to slow your heart but stop you from bleeding out the arrow was meant for Mercer to keep him alive and bring him to the guild to justice however she couldn't get a clear shot and made the decision to use it on you to spare your life turns out she's got her hands on galas encoded journal though and to translate it you need to speak to Enthiran winter hold on this next quest he sends you to speak to the wizard in markov named calfs elmo who won't help you translate the journal through a variety of methods you then find your way into his Dwemer Museum and sneak your way into his laboratory there are plenty of guards to hide from and a variety of traps including poison gas eventually you find your way into Cal Selma's tower into the Falmer translation guide which is a massive stone tablet as a result you use charcoal and paper to create a rubbing of the tablet you then escape past the group who come in to hunting you down and jump out the tower down a waterfall into Markarth city it's an epic escape and feels super thief II Anthea will then use it to translate Dallas's journal confirming Mercer used to the Guild's funds and desecrated the secret shrine to nocturnal that the nightingales is the one to protect the Twilight Sepulcher you also get given the nightingale blade and to meet car liar back at the guild where the other members are angry towards her until she hands over the translation and they see for themselves that Mercer robbed all the guilds treasure you're then sent to infiltrate his house for clues and after sneaking past his guards and into the lower levels you'll find your way into a tunnel system under the house hidden by a suspicious cabinet you make your way past traps until you get to the room with Mercer's plans chill rent and other treasures the next quest is really cool but doesn't involve you doing anything challenging his plans say that he's going to steal the eyes of the foul ma kar liya reveals that Mercer was a Nightingale an agent of the Daedric Prince a nocturnal she takes you to Nightingale Hall where you get this awesome nightingale armor making you look like Batman and swear an oath with brynee off being inducted by nocturnal as nightingales car Lyra explains Mercer stole the skeleton key from the Twilight Sepulcher and it must be returned you also get told that her and brynee off see you as a good fit for Guildmaster if you deal with Mercer and complete all the additional jobs you then go break into a big Dwemer ruin and sneak or fight your way through all kinds of enemies with car liar and brynee off at your side it's extremely cool but again you're not stealing anything and it's definitely more of a dungeon crawl finally you encounter Mercer's stealing the eyes from the Falmer statue and after an epic fight you defeat him taking the skeleton key before the place fills up with water and you escaped through a hole in the roof you then go with the skeleton key to the Twilight Sepulcher you go through a variety of rooms and tests using your stealth skills and returning the key to nocturnal who lets you pick one of three powers you also see Carly are talking to the ghost of Gallus before you leave which is very nice and that's pretty much it you stop Mercer and return the key stomping out the mysterious problem that was troubling the guild so Skyrim's main thief storyline was fun exciting and it required stealth skills the characters were better than Oblivion's the fencers were better the guild headquarters and expanding it was better and the radiant thieving quests were definitely better there was more content in Skyrim skilled also with all quests to do and unique thieving targets along the way as in those last any objectives there were neat armor sets some cool weapons a great criminal vibe and a true rags to riches tale for both you as a thief and the guild that goes from suffering to prospering unfortunately more content doesn't mean it's better in terms of providing an actual Thieves Guild experience and the big problem with Skyrim's Thieves Guild still remains which is that the main story didn't strongly revolve around being an actual thief yes it was a cool story and there were cool quests involving thievery but generally you just end up helping maven investigating the Mercer problem becoming a nightingale and putting a stop to him overall the guild experience in Oblivion is much more Fifi and we can't say it solely feels like that just due to structure as unlike Skyrim almost every single main quest involves stealing something eventually leading you to steal an Elder Scroll in one of the best Elder Scrolls quests ever Oblivion's Guild doesn't have as much icing on the cake as Skyrim's but Skyrim's guild is a whole lot of icing and not enough cake to stabilize it while the icing tastes great the structure underneath is a bit wobbly and before you know it it's spilling off the side of your plate and all over the floor as you try to eat it thief skills made the storyline much easier but really the entire storyline was one long investigation that ended up with an internal politics plot twist and a resolution to help a Daedric Prince and benefit the guild add in the lack of structure as far as ranks and progression goes combine it with the separation between becoming a nightingale while doing the main quest and doing the radiant quests whenever you want and becoming the guild master eventually and then add in the fact that there's hand-holding that allows you to underperform kill people even though the guild frowns on it without much consequence and still progress onwards and it just feels like it's not well-structured the main story's lack of thief elements isn't fixable unless you just rewrite quests entirely to include more thievery but overall it would have felt much better if the guild was stricter and less hand-holding and then you were actually forced to do some of those seven radiant quests between main missions doing a special jobs - and being given new ranks as you expand the guilds influence get more merchants and new members in the Ragged flagon all interspersed between quests in the main story and the last objectives within them ultimately leading you to become a nightingale and the guild master in a much more integrated manner and that ladies and gentlemen concludes the video Oblivion's Thieves Guild provides a better thief playthrough for the player but that's not to say scarves was bad and you have to give it credit for all the extra content and effort they put into additional quests radiant thief missions cool characters and the hideout scams thieves guild is way better than I thought it was before writing this video but at the end of the day the heavy focus on thievery in the main story of Oblivion's guild is what shines through and ultimately it has to be the deciding factor when it comes to choosing which guild gives the player a better thief experience as always social media links are in the description below and let me know in the comments what you think thank you so much for watching my name is Marco and I look forward to nerding out with you again very soon

Channel: FudgeMuppet

Views: 488,233

Keywords: skyrim, oblivion, thieves guild, elder scrolls, fudgemuppet, skyrim vs oblivion, oblivion vs skyrim, skyrim thieves guild, oblivion thieves guild

Id: 0lULnNmxYhI

Length: 38min 38sec (2318 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 29 2019