Shawn Ray Slams Phil Heath & Defends Mr Olympia

if you're gonna be at the top you're gonna piss some people off I chose bodybuilding it didn't choose me but I'm known for telling it like it is I don't think anybody takes that away from me people think I'm sour grapes that I didn't bee Dorian nobody be Dorian this same group of judges likes chocolate this year they're gonna like chocolate make sure you're gonna like chocolate the next year so now I'm a whiny [ __ ] did you and Chad Nichols ever do anything together absolutely not he's dr. Kevorkian to me bro current era against your era they're lucky that Dexter's not 10 years younger top 5 greatest bodybuilders of all time you're not gonna find me talking about how to use anabolics with anybody you ever gotten to fight with any of these guys I pushed a lot of buttons trust me whose fault is that dude I heard you say something like what does the Olympia doing for you athletes they don't owe us anything it's just like boxing like you're a boxer well this is what I make this is not the NFL and it's not the NBA you've got James flex Lewis coming back hotty cheapens coming back does phillies come back or not the Olympia does not need to make the mister limp I'm not saying that of course it doesn't how can he sit at home and watch the competition that made him who he is how sensitive you're sensitive in terms of what I can't sit there and say oh you're upset at me it's your fault are you kidding me then Olympia was bigger and better than it's ever been even though Phil wasn't there on saying it's bigger than any bodybuilder it's an institution [Music] did you ever think you would make good I feel like it takes sweet victory I know this slice meant for me here yeah why would you bet on Goliath oh we got plenty now you came in given values contagious this world of entrepreneurs we can't know value to haters honey run homie look what I become I'm the one [Music] today we have another legendary bodybuilder in value taemin studio this is a man who may be considered one of the most consistent dedicated mr. Olympia competitors of all time he's competed thirty times I believe professionally only placed once outside of the top five twelve years in a row consecutively mr. Olympia was in top five he's beaten pretty much everybody he's ever faced off except I want to say to people Yates and Haney I believe and known as a business guy he's loved he's hated he's got a lot of opinions he's got a lot of things to say so we'd have a good time today the one and only genre Shaun thanks for coming out buddy it's interesting because the love and the hate that didn't come till I think I was done bodybuilding I mean when you move into the media side you have a lot of people that have opinions I remember Muhammad Ali had a love-hate relationship with Howard Cosell and I see what Stephen a Smith is doing now as a talking head for all these other sports and moving into the interview side and the media side these guys that you know I admired I'm now got a critique and criticized and had some threats from some bodybuilders because I was too harsh with my criticism but I'm known for telling it like it is and you know I take the good with the bad so loved and hated I take it what the heck I mean if you're gonna be at the top and you're gonna be competing for a while and business you're gonna piss some people off it doesn't matter who you are yeah but for you your your slightly different because you know from looking at it from the outside to the bodybuilding world okay you see guys who you know they compete and they know how to play the physique to have genetics they have a nice physique but they don't know how to play the politics game right so they'll go compete but they'll never voice off or sound off to get some kind of change to take place nineteen ninety five ninety five percent of them yeah they're kind of quiet because they're afraid what if the IFBB Oh what if mr. Olympia brand does something wrong jaren then you got the guys on the other side there are good politics but they don't have a physique right they understand a political game but they don't have a seat they're loud you have the physique you have the gift you are an incredible body build in your world even your enemies when it comes up to talking about genetics and you know how you came in at 197 at first professionally at the end I think have you ever worse was like two 18 18 and you go through that but you also understood the political game you saw some of the stuff that was going on behind closed doors and so today I kind of you know on one end I want to kind of get to know you to see what your stories you know cuz I try to find a lot of different stories about your past I know your high school you know Pasadena guy you got some interesting stories on what you did but I want to go a little bit more into this guy in high school Sean Ray we're 14 years old I'm your classmate this is pre you break into a record 498 yard run that you went on and it's in the book still today yeah yeah you had the ability to go play college maybe the next level you were 17 years old debating to be a bodybuilder I'm talking pre that 14 years old who's John Wright I was a dreamer I wanted to play professional football and you know had already had experience with karate I wrestled I started playing football at the age of 8 I had come from a football background all my brothers played football so I knew that going to El Dorado high school was my meal ticket out I wanted to play in the NFL and I could tell you the names of the players their salaries the coaches on all the NFL teams as a teenager so going into high school my brother Chuck was one year older than me he was a phenom and as a freshman had all rushing records but he was a fullback type runner I was more of a Barry Sanders type runner so he set the bar for me going into El Dorado and he's kind of a bully a little bit bigger version of me playing the punk rock band he would defend his friends in fights I was not a fighter very spontaneous he would surf snow ski and do all the things I wouldn't do when I got to El Dorado I wanted to break his record but I also was aware of the senior and the varsity records that were there so I went in there with an agenda I wanted to become a professional football player and I did everything I could do my my sophomore year they asked me to play varsity and two games in I started and from there I just you know continued on I was a halfback I was a the punter I was the kick returner the punt returner the defensive halfback and the running back so by the time I was a senior I was pretty much I was helping the quarterback call plays but at the same time I was lifting weights to get bigger faster and stronger which was very effective before I left high school I'd already won the Orange Coast Championships and I won the teenaged California my senior year and that's when I knew I was gonna become a bodybuilder you knew you were gonna be about 1984 it was April I had gotten injured my senior year stood on the sidelines watched my varsity season disappear and I had to make a decision play in the all-star game in June or do the teenage national championships in June was 18 years old and I chose the teenage national championships I went in it got second place I lost that competition to Franco santarilla as a teenager but Franco had won at the year before so he came back for a second national title it was a little more he was and then by the time I was 19 I went back to the Nationals I won that championship wound up in flex magazine met to Joe Weider and Ricky Wayne's son Kevin Wayne's a photographer Rick Wayne saw a lot of myself a lot of himself in me and I'm at the Joe Weider studios at 19 years old by 20 I was a junior world champion on the cover of flex magazine in college still no money but I was living the dream I could drive to Woodland Hills and walk in and see the pictures and see see what the future potentially would help holds for me and at 21 years old I was a national champion three years out of high school a professional and Joe Weider signed my first $1,000 a month contract $1,000 a month $700 apartment $289 car payment I had to figure the rest out it was sink or swim now let me ask you back then it was more kind of like look we don't have money to give you but we'll put you on cover of magazines but no I was I had nothing to compare this with Joe Weider said they had $1,000 a month and I thought that that might as well have been a million dollars a month for me I was in college but he was calling my house I was driving to his office we were having these conversations they saw something in me that I really still didn't get my arms around at the time I won the Junior World Championships in teenage America they were saying that I was the next big thing I hadn't bought into it yet mind you I was coming up at the same time Mike Tyson was and watching Mike fight and listening to how he was being indoctrinated into being the heavyweight champion in the world by custom auto I had my John Brown who found me as a bodybuilder telling me the same thing now I've got Rick Wayne telling me the same thing what age did John start telling you 17:17 s when I joined a gym John won the mystery unit using mr. universe two times and mr. world three times when he saw me he thought I was already training for bodybuilding but I was training for football six months later I was on stage then I was his full-time training partner for a year by the time I won the teen national championships drama went back to Europe I continued doing it my way and I wound up becoming mr. California first in 87 National Champion in 1987 in November when I got my contract though that validated the whole thing because you got to remember I'm coming from football yes in high school I'm shaving my legs there's no hair I'm just doing what I what it looks to be normal I'm taking the bikini girls down and putting all the muscle men up I'm admiring and studying these books I mean there's a lot of questions going around about what am i doing walking away from football but I knew that the way John was telling me that I could kind of live the life that he was living if I did the things he did I believed it he was my custom ATO and he did tell me that at the time I could beat guys like rich Gaspari and Lila Prada and the fact that Samir Bannu was mr. Olympian 1983 Chris Dickerson and 82 they were my size that was the validation of why they were telling you that's you can beat those guys you're not gonna be that way and then of course by time I was a senior in 84 Lee Haney won his first mr. Olympia but it didn't deter me I mean Lee Haney 510 hmm 240 250 I still you know had Tom Platts and Leela brought on these guys that were on the shorter end during the business if I just kept doing the things I was doing I would be on my way when I won the Nationals and got that contract from Joe I was hooked and sunken-in let me ask you say John Brown's not in your ears are you still going to go to path you you you ended up going or now um probably not because without him telling me when he first saw me I could beat Doral Washington who was a mr. America a teenager at the time and and I mind you the other guy saw that was Victor Richards which was on the other end of the spectrum in terms of size I had the right guys telling me the right things at the right time and then when I looked around I didn't see guys like Arnold and guys like Lee Haney I saw guys like LeBron in 1985 I saw Chris Dickerson at 42 years old who I looked eyeball-to-eyeball with and Samir Bannu and Tom Platts they were the big names in bodybuilding and I fit right into that height wise and weight wise so proportionately I think I started to believe John as an artist that you know posing and presentation is everything and you can beat some of these guys on how you show your frizzy you don't have to be as big and understanding that as an artist coming from John that indoctrination that I could outperform them I could probably beat them then I started getting best poser award then I started winning the overall Awards and I didn't need John at that point by the time I was 21 years old and won the Nationals I was on my own it's it's so interesting when you're saying like if a guy like that wasn't in your ear you may have been doing something else today well I probably went back to football that was hurt the power of somebody being in your ear to say Shawn I believe one day you can compete with these big guys and be able to hang with any of these guys that are up on this stage the power of that it's so uh you when you look back and you talk to a lot of guys and almost every one of them that goes and competes at a high level somebody in their life said I believe you can be XYZ it's almost like somebody painted a picture of a you didn't believe you can be that person but they painted it and you said you know what I'm gonna go for this thing over here that somebody else sees you gotta remember the guy that's telling me this he's got like two Mercedes he's flying all around the world he's speaking German he's making deals in Paris he's a student of surgery Bray he's friends with a lot of the people that I see in the magazines we walk in the world's gym and he's over there talk in a borough Fox you know he's talking with Tom Platts he's he's you know rubbing elbows with Mike Christian these are all the guys are in the magazines that I want to be in one day I saw the finish line so for me to see the finish line as a teenager made me a little bit more focused I didn't need to be at the after parties after the football games I didn't need to be running the streets I need to be ready for that next workout that John was preparing me for so so you had an older brother did everybody know it's kind of like when you went to high school don't mess with Shawn because his older brother is gonna whoop your tail was it like that kind of a culture or you know no it was it I'm in mind you from a lily-white Orange County I mean there was probably five black guys I was the only one in my graduating class I believe on the football team so we were all athletes and nobody was picking on me or my family for that matter you guys had a reputation was like the Rain boys or a family yeah an athletic reputation my brother Reggie was a three-time letterman in track and field basketball and football my brother Chuck was like the strongest black kid period he was like in he had a very short food fuse he was a fighter got kicked off the football team yeah you wouldn't take no crap from nobody but where we came from there was no really I didn't experience much racism caught up and I think my sports superseded all that I was good at athletics I didn't have time to get in trouble so they didn't treat me any different and I didn't feel any different but I was always the leader I was the captain I was the MVP and I even wants the brothers or no monk's brothers the youngest of eight we had to mix a blended Brady Bunch family my dad had three kids when he met my mom my mom had two kids when she met my dad then we had one two and three in a row where are you on that I'm the last so that my brothers one year older my sister's two years older last up to eight or last associate or last thing they had all those mistakes eat seven times I got this one we're done now your parents personality was how my mom the son of a janitor you know and at the time when I was in school grade school I think was more for me out of an embarrassment my dad would work those odd hours and when I get up for school and go to the store with my friends my dad would be in the parking lot sleep at the wheel cuz coming back from work and we're starting our day my dad would he wore these overall painter overalls when he did his janitorial stuff and it was always be dirty and just you always I always thought my dad he's always dirty and I just kind of thought man dad you're changing it embarrass me go go get in the bed and you know I would run for 150 yards 200 yards and come home and I'd be washing windows the same night when I got it in high school it was tough because my friends would be going to the beach on Saturday I'm going to wash windows clean toilets and then it taught me something that I got to be better than that I want be better than my dad and naturally through watching my dad struggle through those years of I don't know I don't think it was a struggle for him because he worked till he died he died in 2010 for me I wanted something better and I think my drive came from the fear of cleaning toilets in washing windows wasn't beneath me and the people that do it I have a total affinity for I see them all the time in the places that I travel in going through the airports you know I'm a sure I recognize those people because that was my dad and now that my dad's gone it's even more that I'm aware of that we walk into a nice building first thing my dad's looking at is the floors and the windows and he's he's pointing out all the stuff that people just walk by and just gloss over but it felt very redeeming for me to move out of the house to get my first car which was a Corvette to be able to buy my dad lunches and dinners and to be able to not have to work for my dad and there did come a time when we bumped heads and I was like I'm not doing it no more I'm not I can't I'm not I got to sleep I got a train and when I was coming up in high school eat sleeping and training he he looked at that as a hobby by the time I started getting paid for it I had to remind him it was a career and we had some friction were the age was that when you have friction are there about 22 I just I started feeling my manhood and I was on the verge of buying a house and I had to stand up as he let up you gotta find some employees I'm not doing it but everyone in my neighborhood worked for my dad all the family work for my dad now I'm at a point where I'm making my own money I don't have to work for my dad and I don't any my dad to tell me what to do so I did go through this phase like look man I'm self-made now this is me this was not from you how long did that last the friction probably when I bought my house ultimately I bought my house in 91 and my dad was there from the beginning to the end to help me through that process because that's a major step I think I was 22 23 years old and it felt good to see my dad pull up in the driveway you know and and knock on the door and and see that this sweat equity that I put in the gym this did this you know and I never looked down on my dad my dad did his janitorial work until he died if anything I tried to lift my dad up in a lot of ways he wouldn't take any money for me so I made sure you wouldn't take any money I made sure he ate the nice steak houses I made sure that so proud man very proud because I would hear from other people I saw your dad he was saying this I hear about my life story from people that my dad was talking to so it was for me becoming a professional bodybuilder it was something to make my dad proud but it was also something that I was fearful of becoming a janitor was he also was y'all asking yeah he was also anybody thought my dad was like a bodybuilder but that's where you got to give credit to genetics my mom just the opposite cpa engineer we always said how did you dad wind up having these kids you know it's like he's totally the opposite but they you know 18 years of marriage they got divorced when I was 17 years old and I was pretty much on my way as a bodybuilder at the time and always when after that after the divorce happened my mom got remarried we were always a family unit around the holidays so I came from a very stable family with both the work ethic of a blue-collar toilet cleaner and the mind of an accountant which was my mom and seep that's powerful that's it that's a very good combination right because you're getting the hard work and you know likey you can use the hard work to advance but also you can use her brains put them together you you know you are who you are absolutely and by the way I was talking to Ron from muscular development and we were doing I was a guest on his podcast yesterday and he says in my experience there are two types of people that end up doing well on bodybuilding one is the kid that grew up and he was bullied and this person has a point to prove so they go into bodybuilding he says they don't typically win but they do go into body builder he said the other one is somebody that was an athlete and they were already an athlete they were playing sports and then they went into bodybuilding yes it's one of those things when you find out what you want to do at a younger age you typically can get there faster Mike Tyson wanted to be a heavyweight champion of the world at 15 16 years old he got there when he stole your edge was finding out sooner yeah I mean I I knew what I wanted soon as I made up my mind at 17 that that's what I wanted to do nothing came into my life that was going to sway that in the sixth immediate success I was having like I had with football was validation that I was on the right path and I mind drama unicorn there's John Brown who made his bones over in Europe and not a lot of people knew who he was and then there was me I didn't have anybody to look to to compare notes with I had to make the pilgrimage to gold shim and read the magazines and be pretty much self-taught John knew how to train did I find you bother I walked into his gym that he was training at and he thought I was training for a show nice you know I became his training partner I should say punching bag I probably threw up and quit more with John the first six months of working out than at any given time but my ability not to want to be a quitter continued to bring me back made me a better athlete well you were you I watched you in interviews and I watch how you talk and I watch you know whether it's you know calling certain bodies and what they look like I'm gonna tell you what you look like you you you don't look that good you can't get haters so you kind of are you know you are the way you are and I also see you in press conferences that you guys are doing stole MP and you're kind of sharing your opinion about the judge and you're going back and forth with the lady and you know she's the new judge well the 7ja all this stuff so we'll go through it out here in a minute were you always a guy that didn't and maybe you can correct me here didn't necessarily just bow down to Authority were you always like that was that a part of your DNA or did you become that you don't remember I mean I chose bodybuilding it didn't choose me like I didn't just stumble into it I I what you saw is what I made you hear a lot of athletes say I got my trainer and I got my girlfriend and I got these people John Brown and reduced me to body willing I became the body butter so whatever success I got it's just mine whatever failures I've had I own it do we all get introduced to something but we don't necessarily get mentored through all the process nobody was walking through the contracts I didn't I had to come up with my own valuation on what I would charge for guest posing what I would charge for an appearance a seminar where I'm gonna determine where I'm gonna fly what hotel understand these are things you don't get taught you know I mean now you have trainers that are trying to help you out with that kind of stuff at the time I came up I chose to be a bodybuilder I put my art up there I consider it an artistry and I let the judges judge it when the contest is over you know I'm my own person there was no one going to tell me what to do how to eat how to train or what political game I needed to play and I had the favor of Joe Weider Joe Weider actually liked the idea that I was vocal independent and self-made and he made sure that I stay true to that don't let anyone take that away so my biggest adversary like Mohammed had Howard who sell yep I had waned Amelia who happened to be the president of the IFBB at the time I could push Wayne's buttons at any given moment because he can't I don't have a contract with Wayne at a contract with Joe Weider it doesn't get any higher than that Joe's name is on my checks that's the guy that I need to make sure I have the relationship with and I always had one with Joe Wayne I didn't and I was very contentious with Wayne because my argument wasn't for Shawn ray when you saw me in the magazines complaining and a lot of them said I was bitching a lot of the body but all Shawn's got something to say you're not hearing me talk about me I'm talking about fairness for salaries I'm talking about the rotation of judges I'm talking about the equity of athletes being paid on stage my argument in my fight was always for the betterment of the sport which Joe could appreciate which is why I never got a reduction in salary I never got suspended I had a 17 year deal with Joe his brother Ben liked the idea that I was verbal and vocal and so they liked it why do they like what they liked the idea that I was a good-looking black guy and they reminded me that I was black showing bit so let me ask you this who pays Wayne salary it was coming from the weeders we did he work for Joe Weider so the magistration brain works for Joe but Joe likes the fact that you're calling out Wayne in public everybody was on the show now mind you Ben ran the IFBB and they hired Wayne to do all of the pro pro body bone division yeah they definitely didn't have a problem with me confronting Wayne on issues and speaking my mind they encouraged it stand up for yourself and knowing I can have that power I could go up to Wayne if I'm saying the right if I'm in the right place I can say whatever I wanted to Wayne unfiltered and he and he had to respect it I called him out in public and changing the judges having transparency was scoring that stuff wasn't off limits but it was stuff that needed to be talked about in public what does the press conference for if not a place for change is where the chains needs to be initiated and so my press I took the the press conference to another level most bodybuilders are brain dead nothing to say let's just get on with the show but if we're gonna have a change this is where this conversation needs to take place so Wayne wasn't a guy that would call you up and say what do you think we can do to make it better for you athletes he would wait to the press conference and none of the athletes would have anything to say so for me this is where we like the fuse so you know they say an enemy of an enemy is a friend and a friend of an enemy as an enemy so who liked Wayne out of all your competitors who had a good relationship with Wayne maybe Paul delet maybe I mean it's a very it's a very small list of people about how about the guy did Ronnie have a good relationship with Wayne I don't think Ronnie had a relationship with Wayne Wayne was more of a dictator okay his way or the highway he didn't ask you what we're gonna do he told you what we're gonna do and I thought if I didn't like what he was saying I'd call him on it because at the end of the day he has to answer to Joe and bin and those were the people I was dealing with now Wayne doesn't own any of the brain no he was unemployed he was an employee he worked out of the New York office and and like to dictate you know it's a power trip ER and I knew that I was on the west coast I could drive to Joe's office and talk to Joe specifically to get things done which is why Joe admired me because I never left I didn't I didn't get my check and disappear I made sure that he knew who-who was given his money you never had issues with Joe no never and you never called him out you never had any no because Joe you're not gonna find anybody well you might find Frank Zane you might find Robby Robinson there's a few guys that feel that Joe took advantage of them but Joe gave you opportunity and if you weren't smart enough and savvy enough to see where you fit in then you can you can consider it in hindsight that he's taking advantage of you but look nobody knows who you are without Joe Weider hmm you're in Joe's magazine he's giving you a platform yeah you got to determine your valuation on what you're worth if you're getting these protein ads and you're on the cover of the magazine and in hindsight you felt you should have been paid you should put it in writing so today who is Wayne today and who is Joe today so I would have to say that there is no Joe Weider there's no replacing Joe I mean ami is running the machine the pro-league Jim Mannion is the Godfather of the industry he was there under the tutelage of Joe and bin everyone has an immense respect for Joe for Jim Mannion everyone go Jim Mannion runs a very tight ship they've literally the NPC worldwide started two years ago they have over 200 countries involved already I think he's picked up the ball and ran with it because clearly there's no replacing Joe and there's no replacing bin I know that people that are running the industry now people like Dan Salomon people like Angelica that's underneath him helping out Tamriel Gundy coming on strong with muscle contests I'm looking at some of these people that I grew up with there are now being elevated that have the pedigree to keep the Machine going some of the older guys are passing the torch wayne de maiz out Joe and Ben are gone Jim Manya's brought his son his grandson Tyler up into the mix we are in a very good place right now I think we're in a better place right now than we were under the leadership of Wayne d'emilia and Wayne de Mille was he helped found the whole thing back with with Ben and Joe but there's a different type of distribution of power there's nobody power tripping as a matter of fact there's more opportunity now to make a living out of the Olympia brand than any other time and nodding so I've heard a few people say oh you know they're not they're not doing this from you that for me they never did this is a business like boxing you get from it what you put into it there's no contracts like there were before Joe Weider used to have 15 30 athletes under contract and we all were kind of told what to do and when to do it now you have this individual opportunity of using the platform that if you can get to Olympia you get this platform we have the worldwide recognition you have your own social media that you can control your own brand if you do well you're at the top of the food chain you can command more money if you have the ability to negotiate ability to market ability to travel some of these guys are at the top of the food chain and they're not even leveraging half of their opportunities most of these bodybuilders aren't even guest posing anymore I remember when Lee Haney won the Olympia smear won the Olympia you can go to any show in the country and find somebody guest posing somewhere the majority these top athletes don't guest post because they don't get in shape they don't want to stay in shape in the offseason I believe right now Phil Heath has seven mr. Olympia Championships I know he had some surgery that he overcame but I don't believe on any level right now he'll be on a guest posing stage a mr. Olympia typically can get between five and ten thousand dollars I believe Phil it is at his peak was probably getting fifteen thousand dollars in certain countries I don't know any bodybuilder from the 90s or even the 80s that would turn their nose up at a $5,000 guest posing fee you know you're talking to minutes on stage to show the world an 80% physique Henderson that's what's happening today what's happening today these bodybuilders don't want to pose because with social media you're posing fat and out of shape it can ruin your brand some athletes feel like you know what I don't need to pose I'm I'm making more money over here and there and they don't do it acai green for example he hasn't competed in three maybe four years he's a guy that's out there making good use of his time and his physique he doesn't have to compete but yet he still guest poses here and there I don't know Brandon curry he's doing a very good job as mr. Olympia representing I haven't seen Shawn Rhoden I haven't seen Phil Heath in probably two years guess posing that would never happen when I was coming up even Dorian Yates at 300 plus pounds would guest pose and people could see this is mr. Olympia Dorian each was given yeah Dorian Yates when he was when he was mr. Olympia you could go and see drawing a chop pretty much something known as a guy that you couldn't see his body until he would show up and said vivo would take place in April in Germany and every year he'd be there one of the biggest guys he wouldn't do so much here in the States he had an outlet over in New York his good friends with Bev and Steve Weinberger but yeah you can see Dorian AIDS during his reign as mr. Olympia guest posing you don't see it today so let me ask you this are you now what is your role now with mr. Olympia so I don't really have a role you gotta remember my first Olympia was 1988 I have never missed that contest whether as a competitor a sponsor or a commentator or even a fan in so it's 32 years Olimpia I've watched it grow to what it is today last year I was commentating I do the world wide web broadcast which puts me in a very unique place obviously with 14 years of experience of the Olympia in 32 years of not missing it I pretty much know what I'm looking at I know who's come up the ranks I see guys careers come up and retire and I'm an analyst I host the Arnold Classic amateur competitions I'm an MC all around the world for the NPC and the IFBB Pro League the Olympia I continue to promote I'm a missionary for bodybuilding just like Ben wieder said he was I'm an analyst so either I'm bringing sponsors to the show I'm hosting hosting events last year I hosted the reunion of past Miss Olympia champions because now the Miss Olympia is coming back very quietly I might add it's coming back and people need to pay attention to that cuz it's been gone for about five or six years so we had a reunion through wings of strength and Jake wood and I hosted that and we brought in Kiki IL m'a and all these other women body builders that we interviewed on the stage this year I'll obviously be doing the colour commentator and we break down all the athletes but what I'm asking is is mr. Olympia at all paying you for anything are you a consultant of mr. Olympia I get paid for my work that I do for the Olympia and I promote the mr. Olympia through my social media I got it so I'm so the editor in chief of digital muscles so I promote the the I to be Pro League and the Olympians so for full disclosure based on what you're saying this is what I'm interpreting and call me out if it's off and and tell me if this makes sense or not so the the Shawn ray of 94 okay the Shawn Ray of 96 99 whatever those years are 94 96 you know what 94 96 so everybody knows what those two years are yeah you know with the left bicep man Shawn could be a two-time he could be a four-time right I made a few really and a lot of people would agree with that including your haters and it would also agree with that day you couldn't be a two-time he could be a four-time sure but but you were you were very much of a vocal guy of how you felt the judging was and all that was going sir and you were almost pushing a little bit of the brand of what things they need to do for the politics absolutely you sound like you're more defending it today no I'm not defending that what does last olympia you went to the last I went to I don't know nine years ago so I haven't missed any of them so I've witnessed it I think Shawn we know what America for Shawn Ray the competitor was fighting for equal rights for everyone I was like the Martin Luther King a bodybuilding at that time I wanted more pay more judging transparency I wanted the order of events changed it when I was doing it we walked out in the symmetry round and stood there me standing next to Dorian Paul delet and Kevin Love Roni I look like a Wallflower because I'm the smallest of the bunch this is the first look the judges would get I switch that around to the first thing that the judges would see and the fans is one bodybuilder one at a time we walk out we hit our eighth mandatory poses boom next guy comes on so that the first thing that they saw was us at our best we're pumping up backstage we come out we flex instead of stand there for 45 minutes and deflate so we hit the eight mandatories one at a time in the row you can bring then road is bad you can make your compared sure he's telling what you saw because I come alive when I pose but for many years I came out and I stood there so I argue I don't have the coal I pump it up backstage I'm like this is the biggest day of my life I'm gonna go stand there for 45 minutes before you ask we had that change I believe it was like 97 98 it was it took a while but I lobby for that then when I retired I wanted to be the athletes rep because I still was very passionate about some things that weren't being done properly the transparency the money distribution and the judging situation and so I ran for athletes rep and naturally waned Amelia was the Acting President they didn't want an athlete representative in there he made me go and get the majority of signatures from the registered athletes which I got Craig Titus said I forged his signature later on he recanted and backed off of that but that's a whole nother animal they were being told that it wouldn't be good to have an athletes representative well who's telling them the people that are running the industry they didn't want me in there you know looking at what's going on for the betterment of the bodybuilders but nonetheless I became the athletes rep when they changed the time on a meeting that I was supposed to attend that's when I just quit for one I owed three okay I quit that and then of course I said you know what I moved on I got married started my family suddenly bodybuilding and the things that were happening in bodybuilding weren't as important but I was still representing supplement companies still doing seminar still making appearances but I didn't really have the passion to defend the athletes that are not willing to stick their neck out for change aka Phil Heath like because you under tone you kind of talked about him literally like five minutes ago right so are you saying like somebody like Phil he could have done more fun a lot of those athletes could have done more for themselves if you're doing well you're mr. Olympia you're doing well without having to rock the boat Ronnie Coleman was in a press conference where he says listen I was last I didn't complain I was this I didn't complain why complain well when you're getting the lion's share of everything the six-year contract with wieder on his first Olympia got a six year contract right you're getting that $100,000 payday and you're getting the $10,000 guest posing so yeah why complain but you can't turn your eyes to the fact that the guy that's in the Olympia that's number 11 representing Saudi Arabia is not gonna get a dime when he leaves here but he's on the poster he's representing a country and he's got legions of fans and they're selling that this guy should be getting paid all of the guys showing up for the Olympia I guarantee in the Superbowl of this weekend everyone's gonna walk away with money even the losers just for making it to the Olympia I was arguing for that for the mistral so you so if if this was politics if this was politics and you're running for office you're for the majority it's not necessarily more for the individual as what you're saying so you're for the little guy because based on what you said Ronnie he had eight in a run you went to Ronnie you went Dorian you went to well hey me Dorian and Ronnie right we went through these big three guys the face if those guys are not around 22 years of mr. Olympia for weight 22 consecutive years of mr. Olympia Ronnie had a Lee Haney had a Andorian had y8 during my 14 year pro career I came probably five years too late a lot of people think I'm sour grapes but let me tell you something I had one of the best colorful careers of not winning a show and still being inducted into the bodybuilding Hall of Fame all at five foot seven 210 pounds I got nothing to complain about I don't think anybody takes that away from well a lot of people think with social media you hear a lot of opinions people think I'm sour grape said I didn't be Doren nobody be durian I mean Mohammed bin Aziza the shortest guy up there beat him in his rookie year but outside of me no one else beat door and I was in the conversation argumentatively to beat Dorian Yates but I didn't hear the same argument for Kevin Love Ronan to beat Dorian Yates I didn't hear that flex wheeler should've beat or hates the controversy was like 94 96 so 97 Nasir a couple of times Dorian could have been beat it's left for debate but I sleep well at night I I didn't have to not it doesn't take anything away from my career that I didn't win the mr. Olympia is what I'm saying I think because I'm healthy because I didn't tear my bicep because I didn't lose my leg because I didn't wind up in a wheelchair doesn't make me any smarter than those bodybuilders they did what they had to do but I was always aware of the finish line I wanted to be healthy I wanted to be wealthy and I wanted to be well-traveled I got all of those things I didn't get the standout trophy but I don't lose any sleep over that so so so 32 years 88 to 2020 you've never mr. Olympia and you've never missed the Arnold Classic since the first one you will never missed why absence oh you're your gamer you you're you're not a company man that's what I want to make clear because you're you realize no you're a little bit hold on you were alluding to the fact that am i working I think I'm working I'm carrying on the torch that Joe and Ben have I worked for Muscle & Fitness last year promoting the mr. Olympia which is in their wheelhouse promoting it in what way trying to get more visibility but then I'm also a witness to what's happening I witnessed the largest payout in the history of the game last year they raised the prize money for the missile all the Miss Olympia the physique classic physique every division got a raise and the mr. Olympia is $400,000 so I can't complain about the prize money if I see any more money coming in yeah I'd like it not to go to the top I like it to feed down to the bottom in working with somebody like dan who I could walk into Dan's office is a Dan we got to do something for the people outside the top 10 because while they're not winning they're still lending credence and credibility to this show we got to pick up the back end monetarily don't give the winner more money because $400,000 is a pretty big payday but it's also a platform to go out and do other things develop sponsorship don't give to one or more money it's well you know if you want to make it a winner-take-all then why are we gonna have 20 people competing for the mr. Olympia title you know if it's a winner-take-all then what are we doing with these other guys we want to it has to be more inclusive if you're going to get people coming to that competition you think capitalism works it does but why have so many shows to qualify for the Olympia your capital is I don't want to go to the show and just watch Brandon Currie stand up there by himself no I'm not saying that I don't I don't not saying that at all but do you believe countless works okay you know capitalism works and capitalism typically works because there's a what there's a guy that's you know way ahead that pisses off the rest of the guys sure and those guys are willing to go out there and do more typically if you have one person well no it's still a subjective sport of opinion like you said listen I got a box you get it takes last in the mr. Olympia may not look like mr. Olympia but does just as much work listen I mean look look okay if that's the case let me just get into this part I'll play this video for you because I actually agree with what you say here and I want to go into this next so if if Paul you want to come around here okay this is one of the things I want to do it to see what you'll say about this and you know this you brought this up a couple times you know which one this is nobody's asked the question out of those 22 judges how many judges judges us last year that will be judging us this year there's gonna be 11 leave this show Saturday night nothing in their pocket I mean somebody needs a dress and Ronnie's like I complain he gets the check every year so who you here frontin here for me but certainly it is 2001 and I'm still being judged by the same people there are enough people out there where the guy maybe he's got to recruit new judges we need new opinions to get new gluts in bodybuilding we're not gonna continue and then your buddy Ronnie responds with you said right now you yourself so is this a purpose what you said in 1992 maybe complaining already get you nowhere which is by the way this is great for the sport absolutely this is great or does it like Ronnie Coleman I mean that that is classic and typical Ronnie Coleman mind you here's the guy that came from a very educated background right didn't get into bodybuilding for the money and if they took the prize money away Ronnie Coleman would probably be the only one competing for the mr. Olympia title I wouldn't do it for free this is a business and I think that if you're gonna leverage other countries if you're gonna leverage other countries and you're going to include Iran or you're gonna clue Germany or England it's got to be palatable or we're gonna lose that international flavor because you're gonna run into a guy like him Ronnie or Phil it can run off with the title for six or seven or eight more years and we're gonna wind up with a show that nobody wants to attend because it's a foregone conclusion so let me tell you let me tell you why I played this right now for you what led me to want it to play the video now you said bodybuilding is a very subjective sport right like you know how in a your basketball guy Jordan wouldn't win an MVP they're like give me a break you got to give it to Barkley right you got to give it to a team or whatever they given it to us everybody knows who's the MVP Jordan could have won MVP twelve years in a row if you think about it right and LeBron could have won way more than the four that he has or some of these guys that are playing Shaq could have been a Kobe could add sometimes they do that and it's politics how do you measure MEP you can't measure MVP it's also subjective right there's somebody that's voting for the judging from 88 to today okay you make a very very good point nothing is more annoying than me putting my body through what I'm putting through to get it to where it's at today and I have to sit there and hear judges make a decision on my body and they may not know necessarily if they're judging a property or not how much have you seen judging improve from 88 to where we are today what's been the evolution I mean you gotta remember I retired because the judging wasn't changing people said why did I walk away 35 36 years old you could have still gone six more years that was my final salvo after that contest I think you heard you say somewhere in there don't worry I've done my homework I'm not afraid of anybody because I knew they couldn't take what I do away I'm gonna put it on display and the fans are gonna see it right but I didn't want to get back up in front of those judges again and be a part of the Ronnie Coleman retirement party for years after I retired because they say he's just too big I mean if that's what bodybuilding was coming to and I think that's why leave the Prada walked away we just didn't carry the size well then what am i doing I mean I have other things in life I want to achieve I have other things to do with my time then beat myself up in a gym and abuse my body because that's what bodybuilding is you beaten hell out yourself these judges weren't changing and going away anytime soon now I'm I'm 19 years removed from that press conference I'm in a different space I don't go to a show and analyze how the judges are doing it when I take my role as an analyst I see it the way Shawn Ray sees it I put it in the microphone for the world to hear and disseminate the judges are still going to make their decisions now before Phil Heath got through with his prejudging I said Shawn Rhoden was probably gonna win that contest before Brandon curry finished his prejudging I said we're probably looking at a new mr. Olympia in Brandon Currie that's a big statement when you have Phil Heath who has seven Olympia titles you just gotta assume it said he can walk in and win the show I watched it with Ronnie Coleman said I watch wrong today did you say he was gonna win each one when you saw him Phil yeah no Phil Phil's very first Pro win was a Shawn Ray classic in Colorado I'm not sure if you know that but when we saw that we knew he was something special Jay Cutler acknowledges there were some things but I think Phil bought into that knowing he was something special he was brought along promptly he came up the ranks fourth fourth or fifth his first Olympia second and then he ultimately did what he was gonna do but we you can see genetics there's no denying it now it just comes down to work ethic Phil had all of those intangibles coming from a background of basketball Brandon Currie not so much Shawn Rhoden is laid back not so much he had the genetics but you just know didn't know if you had the work ethic but you could see that Shawn won that competition not because he's a better bodybuilder but because Phil was clearly off now I've heard a lot of people say Phil being off is still better than Shawn Rhoden the judges did the right thing because I wish they would have done that in my era because probably would had several other mr. Lampe is like Kevin Love Roni or flex wheeler but the judges get comfortable with the same thing when they're people that they are friends with they're comfortable with and that they're used to this same group of judges likes chocolate this year they're gonna like chocolate next year they're gonna like chocolate the next year it's hard to break down that barrier unless you start throwing in some different judges in there and they we're not doing that are they doing it now I don't know because I don't really I don't have a horse in that race since I know a little bit more come on say my role is not to analyze who the judging panel you're a voice through you're not a regular I am an analyst and there is a difference at the time I became the athletes rep and I defended the athletes in this time where the athletes did not want to be defended as a matter of fact Craig said that I forged his signature and that's a lot because I didn't have to do that and I was voted the athletes rep and I quit that job I had the power right here and I quit it because of how it was being run under Wayne d'emilia now I can say what I want to say on based on what I'm looking at I'm not looking at it and through the eyes of a judge my vote doesn't count it's my opinion and like Stephen a Smith I'm entitled to my opinion and I put it out there for the world to decide but the last three last four Olympia's I was spot on including with hottie to pin and for that for that matter coming into the Arnold Classic I think Josh and arcuate wants to beat me up because I said he you know he had some head surgery and I said this is probably not what he should be doing right now regardless of how he looks I had a hood surgery I probably wouldn't want to be bodybuilding at least take a year off what's the beat me up as a result of that criticism surgery leave a junior I don't have him in my top six going into the Arnold Classic so now I'm a whiny [ __ ] I mean I can't please the athlete but I have the ability to speak my opinion my opinion is not a vote on the judging panel I don't think that's the quote so you said Steven Naismith I'm like Steven Naismith I'm an analyst yes who pays you I get paid by numerous sources I'm a sponsored endorser of business rolling up your pay no I do not get paid by the mr. Olympia except for a my I never got a check from ami I got a check from Muscle & Fitness last year okay when I was writing for muscle fitness I write for digital muscle I'm an editor regional and digital muscle is the broadcast of the mr. Olympia weekend so Jake would signs my check I didn't get a check from is it linked to mr. Olaf II or no no Digital muscle prior to digital muscle you had I herb doing the worldwide broadcast prior to that you had bodybuilding.com I worked for those guys I would get much just like the Arnall classic I get my check from Bob Lorimer when I emcee the competition yeah when the Olympia rolls around my check will come from the digital muscle from doing the web broadcast last year it came from muscle fitness so there's no NPC IFBB signature on any of my checks I get paid by my sponsors which is real leader USA a gym equipment out of China s4 swatches I'm a spokesperson for proton USA and I represent a clothing line of mints clothing line leo reveille so none of the money that I generate comes from the infrastructure of the industry this capitalism thing we're talking about it all comes from the pedigree that I built up as an olympian what was I'm all over the world business yeah but that's the platform they give you right so in that platform we I heard you say something like what does the Olympia doing for you athletes they don't owe us anything it's just like boxing like if you're busted well listen we're not a union hold on this is not the NFL and it's not the NBA and we don't pretend that you know when we had Joe Weider it was a one-stop shop everyone in the early 90s I was part of it I was on that wieder payroll and we were the Machine flex magazine muscle fitness guy that's gone wieder was bought by ami now all you have are your supplements are your clothing lines or your own individual things that your entrepreneurial skills sure I develop yeah there is no Federation or chat going to anybody doesn't know the IFBB doesn't write a check to anyone except for the winners of the pro competitions they're not writing I don't get a monthly check because I'm a member of the pro league I I don't think I'm debating the part that Phil ought to be doing more stuff to go make money I don't I don't think I'm debating I don't we're not off there so we're not off and he's working on that right now he's got a lot of good things that he's working on the side projects but Olympia platform has provided right and Kai greens been able to monetize it probably more than any other bodybuilder in the last five years a lot of - Jay Cutler okay Jay Cutler is a machine he knows how to make money and he's a smart guy but but I'm bringing this up to you from a different standpoint you're saying you know what is mr. Olaf you're doing for you okay I'm saying it cuz I've said it on multiple videos what is my stroller if your brand doing for you great I'm not saying it from the standpoint of hey you know let's make College free let's do this free let's take care of your bills let's pay I'm not saying that it's not what I'm saying to you what I am saying is there's got to be somebody that sits there and says like a Joe Weider you're talking about like a Stein burner yeah like a Jerry Buss like a you know these names that I mentioned alright crafts like these guys are shown and say hey let's go do something I don't think you got to talk to this guy I know this person over here I want to introduce you to this guy when I can do see to that guy I would want to have my number one become so flippin successful that the next twenty two-year-old wants to have that life no I'm 100% with you however you're absolutely right there's there's none of that so what's the solution for that you're Nam you're 32 years absolutely and I brought that up before talking with Dan Salomon who's at the top of the Olympia chain because it seems like when you have the changing of the gaurd when you do the same thing you wind up with the same results the best thing that could have happened for the Olympia is that they had a changing of the guard they brought in some new new people so with Dan who is of the same ilk as me he's got this pedigree with the pro bodybuilding weekly he was the former editor of the digital muscle he's now running the the mr. Olympia weekend and putting all these different people in play to kind of build it back up last year we had Mark Wahlberg as ambassador this year we have Shaquille O'Neal he's not the guy okay because he doesn't have these you know that he knows that because his role is to make sure that when the athletes wind up at the Super Bowl of bodybuilding they get what they want which is why I was telling you it's got to have the trickle-down effect with the guys that are coming from these other countries wherever there have come from Japan China they need to get some reward in order to keep coming back to Olympia we don't have that godfather if I were looking for that Godfather I look towards Jim Mannion but that's never been his role he's he's the president of the NPC and now the expanded NPC worldwide his grandson Tyler's a little bit too young 25 26 years old he's not the guy there is no replacing Joe and bin because you got to consider who's dedicated to this that way but who is but let me explain I've been around I know everybody with I don't know the world that if there is or there isn't but I will I will give you perfect perspective okay okay oh oh you know Paul Chris Paul leaves and goes to the Clippers okay there they're not working out Donald sterling he leaves he stays next guy comes built an organization you know doc becomes president GM they started winning good things are happening and players want to go there then next you know qui Leonard and Paul George decide to go over there okay so so the the Clippers is an organization it was owned by a different person and another guy came in and decided to take you to a different level players want to play form right hey I got contacts at Microsoft I got contacts over here I got contacts over here and he loves the game he's a Cuban look at what Mark Cuban did a very classy move he made this last week Kobe never played for what he called it the Mavericks right what does he do he retires a jersey number 24 perhaps players love playing for this guy Dirk Nowitzki never wanted to go anywhere else now you got the porzingis and you got this new kid leuco to me one of the most exciting players in the league wants to play form yeah and some of the team's people don't want to play for the owner yeah and then and then you look at some of the other like boxing and you look at the MMA I don't know if you follow UF's I do look at they know why there was pride if you remember MMA 15 years ago it wasn't just UFC right it was a few other things and you were kind of watching this they would let you need a guy in to face and USC didn't and then they started doing some things and then he came out with a show called the what was a show called is that a fighter Ultimate Fighter next thing you know were like oh this is kind of cool they're living in the same place they're getting into fights so take alternate fight around you mean to tell me you FC would be as big as today so all I'm saying is all I'm saying is if somebody if somebody is working on finding a way to turn Shaun rain to hero to turn Brandon Currie into hero above and beyond what fill what you would brand and what all these other guys need to do on their own right if somebody does that you're just giving me a bigger full of exposure no you're right that's what I'm trying to not throwing anybody under the bag eyes don't see that happening our sport is not at that level we are is still a cult sport we're not the US we don't have billions of dollars of value either 15 years ago no and you're talking about people remember Joe Weider started at 15 he died at 93 and he devoted his life to this we don't have anybody with that type of pedigree pulling the strings are running the industry we have some some glimpses of people that have the familiarity we're living in a time now where the athlete can control the way they look and how they're perceived through their own digital media when I was with Joe Weider I couldn't talk to another magazine because he owned me exclusively you wouldn't read a Sean ray article that I gave you that would have to come through muscle fitness and flex because I couldn't do it with iron man and muscle development they weren't paying me I was paid to exclusively appear there now what you're finding is that yeah the magazine's may not be what they were but there's a lot of athletes that they will only get the news on their feed if you're not following them on Instagram or on their Facebook you're not gonna find out about it they they won't do the business of bodybuilding outside of their own social media getting them to come to a podcast with you that might be outside the scope of if they have their own podcast you know what I'm saying they want you on their social media it's numbers because then I can sell it I can have sell advertising there's nobody and we need that I would love that if we had some school of thought for example one of our body builders got in trouble and I think a lot of the trouble that he got into is there was no mentorship you know you come to the Lakers you're gonna meet Magic Johnson you would have met Kobe Bryant and it kind of would have showed you the way around the locker room and how business is done as a as a young raw talent you come in to pro bodybuilding you got the best genetics and you're the future mr. Olympia there's no one telling you how to be mr. Olympia it's it's baptism by fire and you can wind up in a lot of hot places like one of our Olympia champions ultimately did because probably didn't have the right mentorship do we need that yeah is there someone out there that I can point a finger to in all of my years there's no one that is out there that's in that position to take that on I mean it really is the wild wild west and bodybuilding because you can't go to Arnold Arnold's you know these seventies got a lot of things going on it's not his passion like Joe's Joe Joe had that passion and that passion is gone and now we don't have anybody like that so this being a very individualized sport you got to make of it what you can and you take from it what you will Jake has no these are either yeah no I mean we're it's such an individual business independent contracting business that J is all about J and can you play no know why he did everything he had to do and he probably doesn't even have the relationships with the bodybuilders today that he had when he was competing whose fault is that dough I think we're disjointed now because of so yeah but what but no I don't think it's social media because social media is also brought a lot of people together shanties think about it social medias also brought a lot of people together you go bats also divided a lot of people because you get blocked and deleted and you say the wrong thing you put up the wrong I put up a picture of me and Dorian Yates standing relax and I actually look better than him and not a bunch of his fans come on here block the leap box for him and that shows you know some of the people that probably came and said good things about you you take Twitter out the current president's not president right you take Facebook and YouTube Barack Obama's not a two-term senator you know you take social media out there's a little tool there it's so powerful to it's how you use the tool people can say stuff they want to say about weapons share about a lot of different TVs for some other guys look at the TV look at Elvis Presley the way he's moving his hips our girls are gonna have sex with everybody now are you gonna do I know I have a 40 year old dancer soul singer you know these things go but you know you sit down you some of the words it's how do you use the great equalizer of social media to me I think social media is a big advantage to mr. Olympia if they do it problem well when you start at leats the athletes are so divided so dispersed and so individualized them together well I mean when you start bringing them together everybody wants to be paid for their time right so if I'm working for you put me on the payroll that's pretty much the attitude of a lot of if I brought all of you guys to get I'm not telling you I'm gonna put you on the payroll here's what I would say listen guys let's look at the model put parallels on models together right what's the other model UFC let's look at the UFC model right UFC model took viewers away from boxing yeah there are people that followed boxing that became UFC fans right I'm one of us oh yeah me too they pulled away from it right now boxing there is no Don King today their biggest promoter today is Mayweather it ain't even anybody that's Bob you know right just those promoters on that wall okay so if I bring you guys in a soda some guys here what we want to do what do you want to do this is our numbers here's what we did here's our revenues this is pay-per-view here's how much we sold to you here's how much we sold you here's how much we sold here yeah if there is a way for us to get the numbers here this is what we could do I can't pay you salary right I can't pay the numbers now here's what happens next all of a sudden added its 15 people that are in there what do eight of them do they say screw you I don't want to do it you pay me now don't do anything no probably told you understand we hope you can help us right out of the seven that's in 3/4 of them say okay let's do something about this then we run you're not expecting to get everybody you're not ever gonna get it but you still have that you're coming from a place where the bodybuilders think there's something wrong and I'm telling you to a to a man they're in it for themselves I mean to try to bring that unity together I mean you got to be talking about the bottom feeders that are getting absolutely nothing because most these guys have found a way to monetize their social media they pick and choose when they want to compete their trainers tell them when they can and cannot compete so we're still on this diverse road to nowhere in terms of unity there is no unification because again you don't have athlete representation but what I will say and this is not a company man not missing the olympian 32 years it's bigger than it's ever been the prize money is in terms of attendance in the terms of prize money in terms of participation and now they're adding another division or attendees and absolutely the more people come in other than 32 years ago I like to invite you this year just so you can see it I was there I mind you I'm there in this packed arena sold out standing room only and people were still trying to get tickets on the 11th hour at the finals and that's because I think they realized there's number one gonna be a new mr. Olympia but am I still has the publicity machine of their you know magazines and publications that they have they've reached out across the board with like Mark Wahlberg and other big personalities I love a love that move that they're taken with that it was actually rocked and Mark and I'll check yeah and and so when people are talking about the Olympia maybe rivaled by Shaq let me just put in perspective by the rock that's an addition that's not a competition the Olympia is this the athletic con is going to be that and they're working in concert with each other all under the umbrella the ifbb pro league there hasn't been a bigger mr. Olympia contest that was attended then last year the prize money has never been bigger than last year so when people say it's it's diminishing you got to remember I think the mr. Olympia the body bowling side may not be as competitive but it was a full lineup you were missing who big Rami you're missing Phil Heath and you're missing Shawn Road and you're missing Kai green and yet that's still a lot that was a lot of people missing all the arguing without LeBron without John and it was and it was still a sellout and guess what the people still showed up for the show so we didn't need them and what I'm saying and that was Dan Solomon's first run at promoting the show what happens 2 to 3 years down the road when there's other things added like I said the Miss Olympia is being added back in the classic physique seems to be taking on a life of its own you've got James flex Lewis coming back to do the open after winning 7 to 12 titles that's gonna make that open division interesting hotty cupid's coming back he was third a lot of people had him even over William Bonin there's a challenge that if he gets the visa but it's that's anticipation that people can build upon a competition for not to mention there's still the X Factor does Philly's come back or not people are waiting he hasn't said yes or no but I tell you what this is a contest that you had he looks like you could you have to plan in advance you have to plan in advance but someone needs to call and say what do we need to do to get you back Phil so Phil no no no someone from the brand needs to call Phil and say what do we listen I'm gonna I'll tell it like it is I love Phil yeah the brand is doing just fine they don't need mister they don't need si the Olympia does not need Phil Heath to make the mr. life I'm not saying that of course it doesn't how that still has to make himself of it the Olympia last year by the way let me give you no did Phil go to the Olympia last year did Phil what did Phil go to the Olympia car I don't think you do I don't think he did either I can tell you that unequivocally if I was in an Olympia as many times as he was and I watched everyone he was in from fifth place to second place to the seven-year first Olympians in the last one the runner up he should have been the one handing the trophy to the guy I mean Phil you should have called them Phil I don't know that anybody has it's like but but you getbut shuttle Camille who does this say that they didn't call her okay let's just say let's just say they did not okay that's how passionate I'm like I didn't want it but I never miss it how can he sit at home and watch the competition that made him who he is I mean he must add something wrong but you you're quick to forget with the fact that you were calling out judges event after event after day and I never missed a contest in 32 years but but I understand that were you know complete different position than he is this is a guy that I know but he as mr. Olympia you would think that as mr. Olympia seven times and we think that the brand would be reaching out to say we're grateful for you you know so you know someone did call him to find out whether or not he was coming he had other things to do you got to know the whole scope of the story so - it was fill waiting for the mr. Olympia to fly a private jet out for him to come in since I'm not you're sensitive in terms of what what do you mean you're kind of course you're gonna be sensitive a crazy competitor that pays attention to the details to the body your sensor because you're perfectionist I'm not I don't have a horse in the race I don't know but but anybody anybody that competes at the highest level one of their gifts they have is they're a little bit more sensitive to details and others work other people I'm not saying I get side of your you're weaker since I'm actually using it as a compliment yeah I got guys in there tomorrow I'm doing my annual virtual gala okay there's a me eight thousand people watching okay yesterday we just send out nearly ten thousand 1099 checks around the nation 49 says we got insurance agents so I'm sending these checks to people I did my convention six months ago at Mirage we have President Bush sure Kobe Bryant there we had Jordan Peters and all these guys at the event we're doing the next one at enemy MGM Grand Arena was shut down the place for four days we're hosting it especially people gonna be at this event right these guys are work who work their asses off they sell on Saturdays they sell on Sundays they're running opponents on Saturday night they're running that additional appointment on Friday night while him and you know husband and wife can go have dinner they choose to go do another sale to sell an annuity or sell another insurance policy and protect another family 11 o'clock you're done you come home you can't go watch a movie you're tired he goes to sleep boom the next day right this is stuff that you gotta do mm-hmm this is stuff you got to do yeah and one of the things I told our guys here when we started company and I've said this to them every month when I do my staff meeting very important here I've said it every month this sales team is king I do specific training shot to tell him how to speak to lions right today we give a girl a promotion she's gonna have a job she's gonna be doing something that's very important you got promotion today I had a 45-minute meeting with her and her smart CEO was sitting to all these people were sitting and I said listen do you know how to speak to lions and we went through it I said here's what you got to realize about lions they're wired differently right they're demanding their emotional they're sensitive I am upset yeah you can't I can't sit there and say oh you're upset at me it's your fault yeah I can I can understand the part if a guy is lazy if a guy goes and does ecstasy every night and right after a show he goes and hooks up with six girls and is just partying and that's all he cares about and he's using bodybuilding as a form to be able to rack up more girls and all this but that's not this guy yes I said guys so all I'm saying is all I'm saying is if a if a sh an array of oh three or oh one one was it was oh one if a shine ray is ticked off and you're kind of pissed off and you're a demanding guy you're a sensitive guy you're annoyed you're sinner of course there's a part of it that you're talking about the other guys but of course a big part of it is also you want to be masked or limp you've given since 1988 to it all I'm saying is the brand cannot say we're bigger than a seven-time is strolling even though it's right I'm not saying that they said that what I'm what I'm saying from my cheap seat okay the Olympia will go on whether you have a seven-time Olympia sitting in the front row or sitting at home no it's not arrogant what I'm saying is there's always been an open door policy if mr. Olympia is waiting for the Federation who doesn't write him a check he was with wieder or yeah he was sponsored by Weiner we didn't let him go and he won a couple Olympia's after he his wieder contract was over if you're waiting for a phone call for an invitation to a contest of that magnitude when you actually know the promoter and you can say hey I need five tickets I need 10 tickets I want to have a booth all of that stuff I can't sit at home away from my phone to ring you got to be proactive are you kidding me then Olympia was bigger and better than it's ever been even though Phil wasn't there all I'm saying is it's bigger than any bodybuilder the car it's an institution I don't dispute that let's say you're right let's say you're right let's say you're right the Colin Kaepernick go back to the ship with Colin Kaepernick when he knelt and he said what he said and then everybody's like oh my gosh there's another guy there's another guy there's another guy domino effect okay domino effect you know who I bling on the entire situation guess what learn on the entire story from day one I blame one guy only one guy blame guess who it is Goodell go tell who else you gonna blame listen if the guy is trying to make a statement immediately look I don't know if there was a statement being made I feel not going to the Olympia he might add in numerous the reasons why you don't know what I'm saying and I would call is not even the best guy yeah he's not only personally I think the mr. Olympia should have that entire front row for all of the past mr. Olympia to beat it that's my opinion if you're only knee above that but I agree with that I would go a little bit about that but for me I think I think to say I think to say the brand will never be bigger or the brand will and one of my guys I was talking he makes about he makes a good $600,000 your income makes good income decent income he's not my best top five guys top ten guys but he's one of the guys that's doing pretty good and I sat down with him one day and I said listen I want you to realize this he says what's that I said you walk around as if your block of business is gonna pay you for the rest of your life I say you walking around like you're bigger than circuits sitting in Kmart keep in mind Circuit City and Kmart went out of business they got arrogant and cocky and Blockbuster Circuit City and Kmart's all bigger than you are you're a nobody compared to those companies right what's the point if boxing gets cocky thinking they're not gonna lose eyeballs on UFC Dana White is gonna come and take it over so to say that Iraq is supplementing a you know if and by the way my worry wouldn't even become a constant comment is complementing I don't even think Iraq is the one that would be my concern if Danny by any chance gets an itch to want to really go up Danny can pull the strings and do whatever she wants Danny Garcia and by the way she's works very closely with the IP pro-league I mind all of that sterno exists because they do their job they do and that's good for everybody and for me for me I would like nothing more but to see the mr. Olympia brand get even big bigger than what it is today so by the way one of the questions asked I didn't get the answer of description of what you were gonna say to it are you more it has the system and judging change between now versus oh one versus 88 you know I can't tell because we're judging totally different bodies you know when I was competing you had the top six for Hall of Fame body was there all the Hall of Fame all of them I heard you make a couple of comparisons will do that I think you I think you know what bran is in because he has an Olympian right so he's in that elite 15 Dexter's in because he won in 2008 and is the winningest pro bodybuilder ever I mean fills in I mean it's conquering a Hall of Fame bodybuilder he won't you got to first runner ups at the Olympia 3 first runner ups it didn't be a couple of on a classic there might be an argument he's better than Eli Manning right there's a stronger argument for Kai green to be in the bodybuilding Hall of Fame but the lineup that we're judging now is the judging with different criteria man I mean so I don't know how the judges are judging I don't it's not something that I would want to be a part of in terms of judging oh but I think it's something that you ought to put a give you opinion on because you have a history of doing that and if the concern is really the younger guys I think you ought to do a little bit more due diligence and see how things don't go and I'll give you an idea why I think that is because ok you look at that video I don't know how long it's like 47 minutes that's a good it's it's a good amount to watch and you guys are going back and forth back and forth the only one they ever sold online they saw the DVD it's phenomenal by the way I think this is very good for to spoil her Kevin said he said something's wrong Ronnie when everyone's booing so nobody wants to see it mr. Olympia boos right I think you were onto something I think you were onto something because if I'm gonna give my life to it I want to do it there's no there's gonna be a way that I'm being judged that's fair yeah for example if I go to court and I'm going to the jury is going to come and go up and judge me the jury cannot be a friend the jury I cannot have dinner together right that's what we were up a so that's what I'm saying how much does it change I don't know that they I don't know that those judges have that same type of relationship that we had back then you don't think or you don't I don't know okay because I'm not invested in it seriously I'm 19 years removed I know some of the judges but I don't know all of the judges it's changed when involved I'm not as passionate or as close to it because it doesn't directly affect me when I was up there on that press conference I was being directly affected by continuous decisions to have the same staff of judges who were friends with notorious friends with Ronnie Coleman the girl I was argument with is Ronnie Coleman's friend Dorian Yates his good friend was with Steve Weinberger I think the bigger issue for these athletes is is that they are not I don't think there's enough personalities out there back then phlex had his own swag I had my own swag Dorian however invisible he was had his but we all had our own personalities Kevin too and now it's just kind of like there's there's nothing really there when Shawn Rhoden won the Miss mr. Olympia contest there was really nothing - there was no groundswell of support after he wanted because you just didn't see the guy anywhere and I don't know if that's but with the magazine demise or whatnot but there's just not very many personalities kai green still has a very colorful personality that he's able to capitalize on he's got a great personality and that personality can take him a lot of places what Brandon Curry's doing a little bit of his is in different ways he's opening his third gym I believe he's talking to schools he's traveling around he's an ambassador he's doing everything right as mr. Olympia but this coming Olympia is gonna be very interesting I'm actually curious about I had a meeting with some people from the mr. Olympia organization about possibly doing something and showing up so you know it depends on how the schedule will look like I may be attending myself it's a different animal yeah I want you're there and you're just analyzing it through I'm very curious yeah I'm very curious so let me ask you now let's talk about a complete different thing transitioning more into the health aspect the judging part for me I was talking to Ron for muscular development I said you know the concerns that you have when you see these guys that are very big okay you know like all of us um one day you're getting picture of Greg Kovacs this guy is bench pressing you know 700 pounds 26 inch guns and we don't see that today you don't see that today but that would never win the great Kovacs is not gonna loose it just that it didn't win then I don't know how yes of course of course but point I'm making to you is 197 218 okay that is a 21 pound difference in how many years of competition 14 that's a long time to go from 197 to 218 we're typically that's not the case the increase is a lot more than 197 flexibility flex wheeler was 216 pounds in the 93 Arnold Classic where a lot of people thought it was his best and only a couple short years later with the arrival of Dorian eights he was competing at well over 245 okay he wasn't a better version of flex wheeler perfect so and he had all the genetics so so where I'm going with this as a part of it is what judging gives points for what judging gives the additional upper advantage for right okay so now this leads me to the topic of drugs and steroids and gh and all that other stuff okay if you and I don't know if you did but based on some of the research I did did you and Chad Nichols ever do anything together absolutely not okay so so so because I know this stuff out of work into me bro okay so even if he did get close to you you would have never been tried as he tried to do in 1996 I went to guest post for him took me to dinner and he asked me if I needed any help I just got second place to Dorian AIDS no I don't need your help I don't even know you first of all and I've done it all myself and I think that's where we started to butt heads i flatly refused any help from him and then he went on to say a few years later that if I had his help maybe I could have been mr. Olympia which is nonsense because of course you had NASA in 97 and flex wheeler in Kevin Boronia that were getting second places towards the end but Chad's got blood all over his hands man I mean Ronnie Coleman will defend him to the ninth degree but he was in that bathtub near death in 2001 at the direction of Chad Nichols who's not a doctor by the way there's at least five deaths Don Youngblood NASA relson body Dallas McCarver and a few other people that he's had his relationships with as a bodybuilding coach that are dead and in the ground and he hadn't gone to one funeral Don long no kidney so you haven't gone to one funeral no not one not one these are people he worked with didn't go to funerals Don long has it doesn't have kidneys he was working with Chad Nichols flex wheeler kidney he's working with Chad Nichols Tom Prince kidney when I say kidney I'm talking about transplants Chad Nichols those are the ones we know about so what does that say about a guy that works with all these guys in this camp I compete against all those guys me and Kevin live roni and me low Sarge have refused to have anything to do with Chad Nichols and that's probably why we're still health in here but everyone that he was working with that was in that cam they're all jacked up Paul delet got smart and got the hell out but he still had a couple of hernia surgeries but how does that happen you have all those top-notch athletes Ronnie Coleman's in 2001 my last olympia ronnie was getting ready to go to the emergency room thank God he was thrown into a bathtub who's thrown into a bathtub full of ice the night before you're competing whose guns only a gallon of water to try to revitalize yourself because you feel like you're dying and your coach is sitting there next to you I mean Michael Jackson died with his doctor in his room so I never would give somebody that kind of control over what I'm doing with my body especially and they're not certified doctors I interviewed Tom Prince recently he's going through dialysis he looks like he's near death he can't be 175 pounds and he's defended he said if he had to do it again he Chad Nichols is a good friend he would I said if you didn't have Chad Nichols you probably would be healthy me and him is there's no mistake that we're not friends and he was in the enemy camp in 1998 they were instituting diuretic testing and Kevin and I were asking for a blood test because we knew that Chad was going to show up in 98 this is what it's open anybody can win we wanted it to be blood tested instead of piss test because we need Chad had some plasma expander including me Oh Sarge everywhere who wasn't in the Olympia we were trying to go so far as to keep chat away from the athletes meaning to keep him away from the damn show altogether flex wheeler wanted to fight me Kevin loved Roni after the press conference took his jacket off he was sweating so much water he wanted to tear chad nichols a new hole because I didn't want Chad Nichols anywhere near that competition and of course Ronnie won the show flex was second I think Kevin was third I know I was fifth place that you just want to try to come in heavier because I felt it was a wide-open show I got to put on some so I came in about five pounds too heavy but nonetheless I never let that die because Chad Nichols left a wake of bodies in his path and he's like a state chairman and he runs competitions and he's not a friend of mine and I would have more respect for him had he gone to some funerals I mean Don Youngblood was a good friend of mine he was mutual friends as my buddy dance Dan English out of Arkansas so I I don't endorse any of his practices but you'll find he's got a very loyal following yeah he was working with Dallas McCarver when he started working with Dallas McCarver I said Dallas has six months to live he died eight months later so I have a reason to be pissed I'm not prophetic I'm not Nostradamus but I know danger when I see it and I knew that guy was dangerous back in the 90s so let me ask you this let me ask you this I got my second video to show you here and the second video I think you kind of have an idea what the video is gonna be this is a second video okay you know what's about to happen I'm at my second I'm at the mic okay I was in seeing this competition this event I tried to approach Dallas for an interview prior to him going on stage what'd he say given he said get the hell away from him I'm not talking to you before he walked on this stage ten minutes before he walked out there get away from him not talking to you I was on assignment for muscular development I said why you're not talking to me says because you were talking [ __ ] earlier in the year probably two or three months move two months before that when he was working with Chad he went in pose for Jim Mannion and he wanted to get a look two weeks out from the Arnold Ohio this is the Arnold in Australia Dallas went up to Pittsburgh and posed for Jim Mannion bent over he was cramping he was pale white he looked like he was in distress but the videotape didn't put it online I looked at it and analyzed it and I said who does that like who would ever go in front of I would never go in front of Joe Weider totally pale Dover can't hold my front double bicep can't hold my stomach in what kind of analysis was he expecting he didn't like what I had to say he was working with Chad Nichols and a couple other people he took it personal he went in and I said despite all of that in three weeks time he's gonna be fighting for first place against Sedgwick McMillan he got second place two weeks later the guy gets carried off the stage and it's throwing up I was standing on the other side of the stage when they brought him back there with the EMTs I wasn't gloating in his demise but I knew then he's in distress for one reason the things that he was doing he's being fast-tracked taking too much too soon didn't want to hear the brutal honest truth I said he should have shut it down after that contest two months after that show he went up and guest posed at the Emerald cup with him about 315 pounds so he didn't shut it down he actually accelerated he went from dieted down on stage to putting on another probably 40 pounds guest posing straight into the ground prevented so let me ask you this here's some of the bodybuilders that have passed away Dallas McCarver rich Piana under samaan sir well I have been Muhammad fantasies in aziza Greg Kovacs Matata so Comerford Osama the art would Charles door Hillebrand men sir both of them brothers rayon my cross Youngblood you know you know these active all Matt of all great and there's many names I don't want to go through all of them you know that I know all of them how many of these could have been prevented I you can't save someone from themselves no no no no here's what I mean by let me and I'm going in a part to help with an element of bodybuilding that's uncomfortable to talk about this is what I mean by I'm not saying you can't prevent somebody from doing it they're doing it because they feel the doing doing part could potentially help them have an edge over their competitor right but how much of it has to do with going and doing too much dosage of the the steroids that you know that whatever it is the gh2 pd's how much could that have been prevented well we can say the same about wrestling probably the same thing about football when you start getting to the brass tacks we don't know what any of these guys are taking I can't I can't paint them with the same brush you hear the word steroids you think a needle and a syringe but there's a lot of different types of steroids these guys some of I would attribute probably insulin I'd probably attribute some of the growth hormone there's use and abuse and nobody's smarter than the next but you know our sport is made up of a lot of misfits we come in with a lot of baggage bigger Axia anorexia some of the guys think of a little bits good a little bit more is better some may have some pre disposed conditions that exist that might get exacerbated by growth hormones speed up the process we know that mood sir probably diuretics Vince Comerford is dead but he was over the age of 50 when he died and he was a notorious drug user Paul DeMaio a huge drug user so we don't know the habits of these body builders whether they cycled on or cycled off but I can tell you the ones that are there I think the one commonality is we would all agree that they're probably abusers not users and there's a big difference I can drink a beer and I'm fine you might not be able to stop at one you need three or four and then you're either the life of the party you're throwing up or you want to fight everybody in the room it's the same alcohol just has a different effect on your height weight in your shape the bodybuilders when it comes down to pharmacology are combining all kinds of stuff a lot of them are working with trainers that have no idea getting a blood test isn't the end all be tall for taking steroids there's you stand abuse just because you have a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to drive 200 miles an hour and if you do we could pretty much bet just about it's a matter of time so mater there's a lot of these bodybuilders when you have the means and the access and you have people pushing you you don't even know the filter I remember I saw you interview Ronnie Coleman I don't think Ronnie Coleman probably even he was taking stuff he didn't even know he was taking Chad Nichols was giving him whatever I give up whatever it was he didn't know what it was so high level athletes with high intelligence are willing to do whatever it takes so you're gonna have this list but this is a very small list by comparison to the millions of weight lifters and the thousands of professionals so there's going to be a casualty I'm going to complete a front angle go ahead and what you think I'm going just the angle I'm taking right now the angle I'm taking is you said Sammy urban dude you said in one of the interviews you said the one guy that I would be afraid of going on in 1983 I beat him in an 88 or ATM but the 83 won right you said you'd be afraid to go up against that's scary you look at that guy beautiful God just a god-like figure Dickerson you know how to beat Dickerson but he wasn't he was a mentor oh yeah he had a good physician yeah I brought uh Kaspari some of these guys okay good physiques that they have you good physique but today do you have any health problems yeah absolutely not absolutely not that's the point I'm making so so the point I'm trying to make you it doesn't even do steroids I mean obviously are no class in 1991 the first time two weeks later they took it away from you and they give 1990 and they gave it to your the one scene where he comes up and he says I'm really the winner yeah but the point is you took first place right two weeks later they did that and then it was what it was you don't hear a lot of times about drug testing with the guys at the top even though everybody knows everyone there's in it this is the point I'm trying to make on how wide front went from judging to this okay if the brand is saying like MBA today saying what Steph Curry two-time MVP okay mm-hmm Steve Nash two-time MVP go back Shaq wilt Russell Giants everybody wants to be sent or you know you want to be this guy David Robinson you know Hakeem you know you Inc all these guys no one cares about these centers right okay so two different games that it's Anthony Davis Gianna's yeah it's completely different kind of gayness but but a part of it is on the player and a part of it is on what the brand is also building up right so in the judges part why why don't they sit there and say look if there's anything with any gut we see like its massive point reduction they did they did it with phil heat that's why he lost some mr. Olympia but I'm not but I'm going back with it right now to move for 90 s yeah I'm going back and then I'm going forward right because a lot of these guys passed we they're not today these guys are byproduct of what happened to 90s what most of these names are not today's names a lot of these names except for a couple of them are recent but you know pianos a couple years ago most of them are the 90s guys right what if the judging comes back and says here's what we're gonna be doing you know Calvin Klein models for a decade you thought you had to be nice pounds and you know you're looking like you know what I'm talking about it was nothing attractive about it right what Kevin Kline made everybody think that's sexy right and 60 years ago sexy was Marilyn Monroe voluptuous you know nice with eyes and butt and a fake and hundred forty five pounds maybe not the wellness division coming and now we have now we have concur dashing right what I'm saying is to not get the black eye do you think the mr. Olympia brand needs to go and kind of start recognizing certain other behaviors well there aren't they with classic physique I mean Briana Ansley and Chris bum said that was highly contested Brandon Currie is not a 250-pound what I'm saying actually no no I'm with you there so I'm going to the part of saying with the judging side that if mr. Olympia goes to kind of a build up some guys that have your kind of a physique and not pressure and go fill to want to go to the next size and want to bulk up a little bit more and it kind of brings up that phase well I think we've got to be mindful there are no genres there are no lip rodda's I mean Brandon curry doesn't fit into that category well you bone it doesn't hottie to open doesn't I mean the gene pool is just not there I mean I'm a teenage national champion Lee Haney was a teen national champion Jay Cutler was a teen national champion Dennis Newman I mean the guys that had that pedigree are just not there I mean you got Johnny Jackson coming out at 49 years old dextrous 50 years old these guys are again guarantee if you take the average age of these guys in the Olympia they're 35 years plus when I was coming up I mean Lee Haney retired at 31 years old with eight Olympia's I got out of 35 years old so the gene pool is it's a different it's a different era man and right now in 2020 and it's barely starting we don't see that next Phil Heath coming up but there's always one right Brandon Currie is not new he's been here for a minute he just he's arrived and it's a matter of attrition because again if you throw in Phil you throw in big romney you throw in Phil Heath I'm sorry I Chi grain maybe Brandon's not mr. Olympia but he is because he showed up this year there's no guarantee that it doesn't get injured on the way and we could wind up with somebody I just couldn't imagine William Bonin being mr. Olympia in terms of all of the guys that are mr. Olympia and then you would have a William boning it just didn't sound right it didn't seem right it didn't look right although Brandon Currie fit in there based on what he was sized up against I think we got to get to a point where you know I don't think mr. Olympia will ever be not be the main attraction of the Olympia weekend but we got to accept that that title could change hands every single year moving forward that reign of seven and eight there's nobody with number one the youth or the look that's coming up to do that kind of dominance that Phil Heath had Ronnie Coleman and J color if you're 22 today would you go to the same rod would mister miss Rowley because it's a numbers game listen I loved body blowing I wouldn't do it for free I mean Ronnie comes from a different ELQ if that prize money is what it is I'm in it because I would have the potential and I would think I could beat what's there I think what's there now is more beatable then when I started when I started I mean what was what was there I was like it Greek gods I mean and you had it ran the gamut mind you Lila Branagh was getting second and rich Gaspard was getting second so on one hand it was unfathomable that I could be there and on the other hand it was realistic that if I keep doing what I'm doing I could be there and I woke up one day and I was there when I heard Lila Branagh announced in third place in Sean ray and second in 94 I mean I arrived actually beat him in 93 for me that was my small Olympia victory because I held the brada in such high esteem the way I held Bob Paris now if we saw somebody come out looking like Bob Paris today I plug him right in there I mean that would be somebody you can get behind and change the entire look of the mr. Olympia weekend if you had a Bob Paris like physique six-foot tall 230 pounds not overtly muscular not really grainy and hard we just got caught up in an era where the bar was just being raised so high and even even during my time the Lee Haney was the only one to finish his career I think better than when he started his last Olympian 91 he could sail off into the sunset Dorian Yates you needed a wheelchair for him Ronnie Coleman he's kind of sloppy at the end Phil Heath was not what he was when he started his reign so these bodybuilders they don't get better then typically get worse Dexter's found a way to kind of be consistently consistent but he's nowhere near the 200 2008 he's found a way that yeah to maximize what he has without trying to blow it all out as hell that's the question for Dexter cuz I wouldn't know I just I imagine mean by that is that a Chad get a hold of him or no he's always work with like Charles class okay he's had various George Farah he's worked with people that I think are respected books Charles wasn't a guru room he's a coach he's a legend chad is a guru that doesn't have the medical background and I don't have the respect for him his wife was a four-time is Olympian that he dried out nicely she was the game changer and the female side of things cuz he dried her out Ronnie Coleman didn't win the Olympic because he got big Ronnie Coleman dried out through whatever protocols Chad put him on you saw him in 98 he was never that dry in his whole career that's why he fogged over everyone and then everyone wanted to jump onto that bandwagon and he got some people but me and Kevin Love Rowan he stayed true to our own independence and we did our own thing yeah I'm cured I'm cured in a what direction because the judging dictates what they get points for that's all it I think the judging dictates what direction the talents going to do when you say we don't have a pool of genetics like we did obviously the genetics are there the level of inspiration to want to get a guy like that to want to come out and compete may not be there because they may take a different route so I don't know I don't know what's going to happen I don't know what they do with the judging side the only thing I'm thinking when I'm looking at these names here is there a way to prevent more of these things happening because this has a black eye for the Brian that's not something that you can prevent because no one is in there with these guys except themselves and they're only they know their limitations maybe they don't know their limitations but these guys are dying of diuretics the Dyer dying of overuse of growth hormone insulin combined and also doing recreational drugs yeah we're gonna have that just like rock and roll you have people doing Prince die whoever saw that coming what are some of the comment you know to come in for the person that doesn't follow this stuff that hasn't read the asteroid's Bible version 1 2 3 4 or ageless man or any of this stuff right never read one of them you've never read one of them no so you so you're not the guy that studies I don't think I really can tell you what a diet Annabelle will do versus anavar so you never see the research before you started Titan I I pretty much through trial and error learned what was good for genre and your health yes I didn't tell you how many calories are on a potato I couldn't tell you how many grams of food I eat I never measured I don't know how big my arms are I couldn't care less how big my waist is the only reason I knew my weight was because typically there's a scale on the day of the show but I didn't monitor my progress on the scale like Ronnie said he said something like he didn't have mirrors the mirror was my best friend I consider myself an artist I needed that mirror I wasn't gonna go in there in outmuscle Dorian Yates I needed to make sure that I was hitting my poses right yeah I took a page out of LeBron ah to the page out of Muhammad Mak away I took a page out of Chris Dickerson and Bob Paris I was a physique artist I've never considered myself to be a bodybuilder because I wasn't building to get big and nor was I using nor were they using anabolics to get big I mean I was training twice a day two and three hours at a time eat sleeping and training I knew exactly what they did and I studied up on him but I couldn't give you my protocol and say here try this I would never give advice to someone to take something you're not gonna find me talking about direction on how to use anabolics with anybody because I just don't have the the wealth of knowledge let alone on the nutrition side I was not a guy that was scientific like Dorian said he wrote all the stuff down and honey this is genetics on yeah I can't explain it it's like I know for a fact Shaquille O'Neal is probably the crappiest free-throw shooter in the history of the game but you know he probably shot a million free-throws in practice he just couldn't get it down right whereas we could see you could always Bank on somebody like Steph Curry hit that free throw to win the game he'd do his eyes closed Kobe to for me I just go into the gym I lift weights and stuff happens let me ask you how close were you to correct Titus I was always curious and how he was as an Indonesia I think I showed him where to buy his house I was there with him when he met his wife Kelly and in Michigan and he had good intentions at times but you can't get out of your own way when you have an ego that big I mean we became we butted heads because just with the athletes rep thing I was trying to get some changes he wanted to do he always had the brighter bigger idea so he had an alpha male personality he was a hothead I never saw him getting a fight course he won't he called me out a couple times one to fight me but if anybody was gonna say who's gonna do something this crazy to this degree that Craig Titus did I think all the body builders probably would have said Craig's cake oh so you oh so you scream he was capable of doing song yeah you know at the end of his career he wasn't hyped up on steroids he was using drugs man I mean I think most people would say he was probably a drug addict at the time I mean I went to the USA that year that that happened he's standing outside the USA smoking a cigarette it didn't give a crap ghostly white pale I mean he was he was fully into his recreational drugs and I think that whole murder thing thing happened under the veil of a drug-induced stupor that he probably still can't even believe it actually happened because he was way out of it that can happen to any sport I'm just I'm just trying to see you know okay got it behind backstage stories so you know Kevin says a story about you Kevin says with him last night yeah a dinner with him last night but you by the way I'm all I always like this physique in the army had pictures on the wall I always liked Kevin had a very different kind of a physique I mean I don't know you know I actually can't say another physique that matches Kevin's physique it was very different yeah of a physique yet but he told a story one time he says backstage he's dehydrated and he's talking to you and he says hey yeah Shawn listen man I need some can you give me some of those orange slice yeah you know like no I'm not giving you orange slice you go get your own right so he said there's a different madness with Shawn behind closed doors but it's competition when you when you compete against each other do you have any crazy stories against other guys like a Yates or Ronnie or a Haney or any of those stories that you have yeah no there was nothing crazy about showing up backstage at the Olympia listen I mean I walk in there and it's like this this is what I'm looking at I'm five seven 210 pounds but I got to stand next to what that's what they look like it was very intimidating to think that I've got ignore them on stage I didn't you're not I tried to squeeze in a couple of pose downs and got muscled out I mean elbows flying I almost knocked me off the stage because I try to duck underneath it yeah so I felt like I was in a washing machine in Ronnie Coleman and Kevin these guys are like you know in my mind they're like raging fighting for the real estate but there was this wasn't this was big business man I mean we weren't we were more sociable off stage backstage it was more like a church you know you just do your meditation and you do your thing I didn't have to meditate I got there I was full of energy I was this is what I trained for it's what I live for it's like game day for me I never felt in their death I didn't cramp up I only got one cramp in my life and a bodybuilding show in 92 in Helsinki Finland I tried to dry out because it's a transatlantic flight and I try to dry and I just dried out a little bit too much I cramped up in my hamstring very briefly but I never felt one that I didn't have a shot at winning and two that this is a miserable experiment I always thought that on any given day I could be mr. lumpy which is what got me out of bed I never showed up at the Olympia except for that the one time when I came in heavy in 98 I thought I spilled over a little bit like [ __ ] you know five pounds yeah but I felt that like the day before the Olympia every Olympia I went in I felt like I was a competitor except like 1988 my first one my rookie year that was just way too busy to even be a competitor but I was the biggest fan of bodybuilding in my first Olympia that I didn't matter that I wasn't in the hunt but every year after that from 92 2001 you can believe I went in there thinking I was gonna win yeah we got into a fight with any of these guys or no was no body builders are like cats they make a lot of noise but they don't necessarily I pushed a lot of buttons trust me Lee Haney's one guy whose buttons you couldn't push I mean he was like the old man of the bunch even though he's not that old he's but Dorian wasn't someone you wanted to stare down you know Dorian was until you saw him walk by you you knew he was coming through I I almost got in the beef with one of his trainers at the time backstage in 96 with Weinberger but it's because Weinberger was in a room helping mr. Olympia warm up and we were all out to fend for ourselves but I never had any issues on game day interesting yeah Dorian seems like the stoic guy that doesn't say a lot and his look is just gonna make you think yeah you know as much as people want to pit us against each other I never knew Dorian until we were done and when we were done like he thought he retired in 97 my last Olympia guest post for him in 2001 but we actually guest post together in 1988 so I saw him coming he arrived three years later but I saw him coming up and he was a beast but I didn't like I didn't want to know Dorian because he was the enemy like you don't want to be friends with these guys so by time it was all said and done I really he's pretty cerebral he's mellowed out he turned the corner from partying and you know he's the guy that I would look forward to having dinner with when going over to England I would seek him out but as a bodybuilder during my bodybuilding years we couldn't have been more different yeah I I enjoyed the conversations with him he he thinks very different couple pictures you've shot so this is you which by the way this is a sick picture you got here this is another one of those pictures that just doesn't make sense when you see this today what do you think about well that was my last year of competition I mean I I went out kind of the way I came in a lot of people in 87 thought I was the heir apparent that I would win the mr. Olympia and I actually believed that would too I didn't know I would spend the rest of my life trying to pursue that and going out of the game leaving them wanting more was probably the best move for me rather than try to come back like Kevin and flex so that's an that's a nice full look it's probably ten days out from the mr. Olympia and I'm satisfied with that that's a pretty sick picture this one here this is another one of those where you end flex have one similar like this you know which one I'm talking about would flex yeah no no Gary Phillips this is paraben all this is actually backstage walking off the Olympia stage to stand in front of his white dropcloth backstage this competitions I got fourth this is my last mr. Olympia parents and I couldn't be more proud of the photography that / bernal did because it brought out everything as a fan that I would want to see on my physical this is last year in your place flow 2001 interesting do you see all your flaws or no like I do I see I see my flaws from the standpoint that look I only have so much to work with I'm five seven if I was five seven 230 pounds you wouldn't see the detail I was an artist so this is it right there this one my facial expression reminds me of your young you printer and I always like you'll burn as an actor but the face is just as much as important as the body not to mention I knew that the midsection is the focal point of everything just as important absolutely usual jaws and all that the look period the presence depending on what pose you're hitting whether you're smiling or you're not this style of pose wouldn't look right if I was smiling and Bob Paris perfected this pose I stole it from him way back when I got my little thing to John Brown has one similar but hitting this pose there's more that's going on than me just trying to show my small midsection I'm showing the serratus on the side I'm trying to flex my tricep a little bit I'm pushing my hand up against my hamstring it's very uncomfortable I'm on dirt right it's what is this thing that's behind my house in chino hills' but when I hit a pose it had purpose and it started with the facial expression what's your waist here what's your waistline I have no idea I okay this was again about 10 days out what do you think well when you see this this was the shot that I had I think this is the 93 Olympia if I'm not mistaken for flex wheeler got second place and I was third place the first time I beat lebra de my frontal bicep at that time was probably my worst pose so I'm proud of word by front double bicep evolved into I didn't like looking at that front double bicep in 93 I wasn't hitting it right but putting the Prada in my rearview I was done I mean I knew how good Flex was I was upset that flex was smoother from the back and the hamstrings but that's flexes pose that's the pose you want to make a trophy out of when I see the front double bicep trophy I think a flex wheeler but taking LeBron out was the crowning moment for me that's pretty sick because it's the one guy that's I cannot yeah he was one of my idols man I lovely what do you think about here this is pretty sick this is the 91 and I'm like holy crap so this 91 yes that's the 91 let the events Taylor beat me for the first time and I predicted that he wouldn't be because he's like 10 years old I mean and they said if Vince Taylor ever beats me I'm retiring so that gave him that fire did that's up right but I got fifth place there in in Orlando Florida but to to be on there with Lee Haney and Albert Beckles forget everybody else Albert Beckles was second place in 1985 when I won the Junior World Championships over in Australia and he the guest poseur he got second place to Lee Haney in 1985 so that those two guys standing there and I'm on that stage and then I got Robby Robinson that's a historic lineup for me I wasn't ready in 91 I won the Arnold Classic went on tour kind of missed my peak Ohio right on a classic Ohio yeah but this was Orlando when Dorian Yates did his first Olympia got it got it signed out memories there so this right here the big guys went one the game changed a little bit I never thought a Marcus rule I thought it was an ugly slabs of muscle that just didn't flow properly and look very drug-induced Paulding Paul delet I never really considered a threat of mine he was big and freaky like the Incredible Hulk his back was incredibly weak his skin was incredibly thick but the silhouette and the the size and the girth you could not take that away I was there when he won the North America to turn pro but I thought this is a physique that's so incomplete that if it ever beats me I got work to do and he actually did in 1996 he got third place at the Ironman Championships second in Ironman I got third then we went to the Arnold Classic and he beat me there he was fourth and I was fifth that was the year I said never again and I wanted a placing second in the mr. Olympia that year and beat Paul and beat Vince Taylor again Jay Cutler that's probably one of his most iconic I was actually a cover shot for Jay and Jay got all the props for me what a lot of people know about Jay is he's a six-time six-time first runner-up at the Olympia to go with the four Olympia titles and the three Arnold Classic titles he no one ever mentions that he was second place six times and there's no one ever there's no one ever that's been sixth place second place six times yeah six time runner-up destroy Olympia sage you know that and you follow this Wow I don't know that it's a record what do you think about here well there's a lot of thoughts there man because forget the fact that I thought I should have beat during aids this was 94 yeah I forget the fact that I thought I should've beat during AIDS I think that Dorian in 94 was just a little too sloppy listen he was big there's no question you can't take that away the color was running all off of his body the bicep terror was very noticeable but when he put his hands down the obliques were hanging over the shorts so for that matter you got to go with the one with the fewest flaws forget it that I'm not trying to perfect but I had fewer flaws on the day and this is where the sport of body Willie could have turned at the corner and gone a totally different rec direction which would have favored me but I pretty much knew by the time I got the finals that the people that were judging that show we're not gonna change their opinion but they could have done the right thing and I thought they didn't that year I didn't hold the personal against story and I held it against the system I'd be curious judges are still around okay so let's talk about some of the stuff today let's not like some of the stuff today okay our buddy here from here on yeah what do you think about this chain it's not a favorite physique of mine he doesn't have the Liberata esque type shape the calves are kind of light the waist is not very tapered he's got some good muscularity the quads don't have the type of sweet sweeps I like but he's competing in a lineup where he he can do very well mmm this is not one it's gonna do very well in my year my era absolutely not hop 10 not in the top 10 I can name 10 physiques that in my era that could beat hottie but he's right where he needs to be in this era how about obviously we know we'll feel but I'm more asking about our buddy here yeah big Rami is just a promise that hasn't been kept he reminds me a lot of cederick mcmillian on the day of the Olympia Romney has some properties that are really good he just hasn't tried to sculpt it those quadriceps you should never ever press he's gotta bring those quads down if his quads were down down it would look more palatable because the arms are so big he has potential right now to come into this year's Olympia and do some things do some things means first or something he could do some things because of the people he's up against including Brandon Currie by the way do you think you can win it by the way Brandon Currie beat him in in the his last Olympia Brandon was fifth and he was six place he wasn't in shape but him in shape Brandon Currie hadn't beaten him so I'd like to see that rubber match to see which direction they go what are your thoughts on those somebody I was always a fan about somebody as a physique I didn't know him obviously personally but as a physique I thought it was interesting yeah I I wasn't a big fan of Nasser's physique here he beat Dorian this is 97 I'm assuming he beat Dorian not only from the front but the back and that's where Dorian's strength was and he beat it he just could just beat him I was I was third in this competition but Nasir was full of stuff man I mean he put oil in his arms he put oil in his shoulders he put him in his calves so when you know these things that some of the body goes yeah surgery for shoulders or absolutely so me being an artist knowing the things that NASA was doing I'm not gonna say it's an unfair playing field but to the expert I you can see the things he was doing and he should have been marked down for it and later in his career he couldn't make the top ten of a regular open show let alone a Olympia so let's do the one that all your peers have been doing you know whether it's Ronnie whether it's Dorian whether it's flex flex was the nicest out of all of them Ronnie's reaction was very different and then Dorian was just the first one that went through it current era against your era no none of these guys in the top ten none of them I said the top ten so the one that could be the top ten would probably be Dexter Johnson but the other guy's not I think tenth would be Brandon and it's not a slap in Brandon's face but those other guys no no I mean roelly winklaar for as good as he is he couldn't beat me Losar czev in me Lesar Jeff I think got one 10th place in the Olympia definitely couldn't beat a Chris Cormier the these guys are right where they need to be for their timing and they're lucky that Dexter is not 10 years younger couldn't be the extra fee was 10 years younger Dexter Dexter and his prime couldn't make the top six of the Olympia and I was there say that one more time Dexter eNOS prime couldn't make the top six during your era here in my hair yeah I think he actually fighting with Chris Cormier for sixth place there's no question Dexter it was he was in the 99 2000 and 2001 Olympia with me he doesn't like me to remind him that he didn't beat me he's beating everyone else he beat Kevin and he beat flags he didn't beat me and he hates it when I remind him of that but I'm a little bit older I think of four years older than Dexter but at the time if we're talking about than 99 Olympia competition Dexter we would be fighting Chris come here to get into the top six Chris Chris Chris was another guy that I like to follow just something about Chris that I like we him and I were going back and forth the other day he follows the content that we were having a conversation about it so speed round I'll give you names tell me the first thing that comes to your mind okay we're coming down to the wire here a a name first thought that comes to mind Kevin loved Rome that's my boy man I mean we he's probably the closest one I'm too and bodybuilding we have a love-hate brother relationship he didn't like what I had to say about his comeback for the Olympia but he sometimes the truth hurts and when you hear from your friend you know even warping it's even more painful but he's come full circle and acknowledge that you know some of the things I was saying we're coming from a good place Ronnie Coleman he's one of those good ol boys man we're in Texas Ronnie's a good ol boy there's nothing bad you can say about Ronnie and he should have took his foot off the gas a long time ago he doesn't blame bodybuilding for his injuries or lame surgeons but I believe it's the bodybuilding if you have taken his foot off the gas when he retired that I think we'd be talking to a different Ronnie Dorniers Dorian as if he was a game changer because that's when it changed when he arrived he if there's no Dorian Yates you probably have Sean Ray as a mr. Olympia you probably have a flex wheeler Dorian changed the game he ushered in the masked monsters because I no one ever thought Lee Haney was a masked monster because he had 25 yeah he had the nice shape but Dorian assured in something that brought out the bigness and the size and it was a game changer for sure flex wheeler the enigma I mean flex you don't know if you're dealing with flex or Kenny from one moment to the next and mind you I've met Ken wheeler back in 1988 helped me move into my apartment kind of mentored him a little bit in the beginning with any he took on the flex wheeler persona and that's a whole nother gangster thug style but I got to tell you he comes from a good place I think he's come full circle I mean when you get humbled you start to realize the things that really matter I'm glad that he is starting to recognize that you know people are more important than things our after Kobe died he called me and I had a very emotional conversation together with what happened with Kobe Jay Cutler Jays a businessman IJ hasn't changed from when I met him coming into the game my news first Olympia wasn't a one this 2000 and like twelfth or something or 14th and all that all that success and he's still the same J that I met back then I just did a seminar with him over the weekend but I like the idea that he realizes his his seniority in the sport and he is genuinely trying to pay it forward and give it back you can't take it with you six times runner up and that's nuts too yeah Bill Phillips he was also a game changer if you want to use the game changer my training partner married one of the his girls that did the body for life transformation the very first one so I was there I was part of the whole metrics thing in the beginning of 93 with dr. Conley and Jeff Everson in those guys bill was ahead of his time it seems like he kind of cashed his chips in and went away but you know he's done a lot of things along the way that continue to stay relevant today he came along at the right time without Ville Phillips I think we're missing a lot of components that are relevant to today's bodybuilding how about your best friend Lee Priest I think Leah he's a loss he's lost bro I mean Lee's animosity towards me goes back to me taking one of his girlfriends actually didn't take his girlfriend it was the next girlfriend that I wind up being with and he never got over it and I think that if there's no Sean ray then leap rhesus talked about with even more esteem he never beat me I was never in competition with him but every time I turned around he was dropping my name and a negative sense and sometimes you know you get attention drawn to you when you call out the guy that's got the biggest mouth I had the mouth I had the accolades and he's a guy that's still trying to find himself you can tell with all the paint all over his face he's easy he's running from something Lee liberado Lee Lee brought up he got them masked with class everything I did I was copying him so when you saw me show up not in sweats wearing a suit and a tie in my posing routines Lee set the standard for that raised the bar professionalism I wanted to be using I wanted to be looked at and kind of regarded this that way and and he didn't teach me that I he has a letter that I wrote him when my career was over my career was over or his career was over one of the two but I made sure that he knew that I appreciated what's impressive for you to be able to say something like that yeah Gaspari blue collar I mean I get rich and ice he sponsors my show every year in Hawaii I've never seen somebody do so much with so little rich was a big block of wicked butter when he first came on the scene I remember witnessing come up through the national championships and I was very envious that he was training with Lee Haney as a training partner I thought what an advantage he had over everyone when I won the Junior World Championships my training partner 20 years old said that I could beat rich Gaspari and rich Gaspari I think got third in the mr. Olympia Championships that year and I said no way I mean he came into our gym he was doing a video his very first training video I never mind rich all the time that my training partner said I would beat you one day and I did not that's the one thing I didn't believe and then in 1990 he did not believe it should I didn't believe I could beat because I mean he was barely 22 years old getting third in the Olympia and I thought it was just so far-fetched and he was training with Lee Haney and he he went on to get you know three first runner ups and in 1990 I surpassed him and just another one of those milestones in my career that validated that I chose the right sport David Becker I don't really know Dave I haven't had we had dinner twice I don't know him I do know that he reminds me of Joe Weider he resembles Joe Weider I don't know if he has the same passion as Joe Weider in terms of what to do with this sport of bodybuilding but he's hiring the right people at the right time to do the right things so a lot of things you pointed on that haven't been happening hearing them being verbalized could potentially turn into things that might materialize because we're at a point where he's at least willing to listen to the people he brings it to his office and if he's willing to listen and let people do what needs to be done I think some of the things you were discussing earlier could potentially the next three to five years get done and we could be in a totally different space it's good to hear Robin Cheng oh man I remember Robin when he was carrying flex wheelers gym bag he was working for ESPN on American Muscle would lose a week that's how far back we go walking we're going back to the early 90s when Robin came on the scene and I got to tell you it's very cerebral caring and he's thoughtful to the athletes I think that Robin is a very diplomatic player in this sport and he grew up in this sport so if you want to know how things should be done how people should be treated I think Robin has a firm grasp on how those things run cool silly and I I would have to say because I was closer to Phil when he first turned pro then after cuz I work for a different magazine and I work from muscular development he worked for muscle fitness so we've had this big chasm come between us so he's somebody different now but I gotta say he's his self-made I don't think anybody can take credit for what Phil's done the word gift is appropriate because when we saw him we said holy crap this is not something that you can just develop he's born with it he's got a gift I think he could do a little bit more with it than what he's done but maybe he's doing with it what he wants I mean to whom much is given much is expected I come from the bodybuilding elk like that Olympia is the Holy Grail he's got seven of them he's got different ideas what each one of those mean to him but I gotta tell you I think he's done the best with what he could with it I'd like to see him do more in the landscape of bodybuilding as a figurehead if the powers that be are not allowing him that's a different story but I'd love to have him be more relevant because I think for the past year he's been a little bit too invisible and the best thing for bodybuilding right now is it Phil came back takes his title because I believe that that has his name on it and if you're asking me to give him advice Phil go back to your first love get that title tie that record and then go for number nine he's got he has a very small window at his age that he could actually wind up with nine all he has to do is what he's always done fix the problem that's the easy part he doesn't have to go build up bigger arms or a bigger back but when you sit on the sidelines for a year and you become civilized like coming home from war and they call you back up to go back it's it's not as easy as said than done because getting under that weight doing the things that you have to do it takes a very disciplined mind and I'm not sure he's not too civilized right now he may be a little too civilized for that he can't come back to fail like he would have to no he's going to war and going to war with these guys Phil Heath is a shoo-in for me I mean I there's nothing he needs to do other than just come in a little bit lighter Ronnie Coleman did it in 2001 when he won the Arnold Classic championship before he almost died in 2001 Phil doesn't need to die to win number 8 Phil comes back he would send shockwaves through all of these guys because he has the he has the tools he doesn't have to rebuild anything he got penalized for what they were gonna be penalizing him he knew what he was gonna get penalized for now just fix it and come back and get your title was the last time you guys spoke I talked to Phil over the new year and I basically told him he needed to call Jim Mannion he needed a culture man yes okay last one Arnold Schwarzenegger without Arnold how to think there's a lot of us I mean Arnold made this what it is he put the lipstick on the sport man if you don't have those pictures of Arnold training at Gold's with Franco and and you know marrying a kid nnedi and doing the movies and I mean creating the Arnold Classic we what do you have without him we don't have it I mean I certainly wouldn't be promoting the Sean Ray classic when there are no class that came out of that one day I want the Sean Ray classic interesting right I mean he he's affected people in the domino effect that I don't even think he knows and and for me to be working with Arnold every year and for me to be able to be in that universe how it's very vast and I'm actually going to his Museum in Austria in March I get to go to grad school he's the closest thing to a Joe Weider that we have in terms of being revealed you know I mean he we God forbid we lose Arlen and we're all gonna go but when that day comes it's gonna be a very sad day for my oh I bet yeah I bet it is top five greatest bodybuilders of all time in your opinion all time well Arnold's in there because without Arnold you don't even have the blueprint so we start with our own work our way back Lee hey knees in there of course we evolved and we got bigger legs we got bigger calves we got the bigger back I I really love surgery surgery oliva surgery leave is the game changer because I think he showed that you can put mass where mass isn't supposed to be I mean he did it in Cuba like you mean in the 60s and he did it at a time where it's not fashionable but more importantly for Serge as the joints right I mean did you know buddy's been born with that type of configuration I gotta put Ronnie Coleman in there because Ronnie did what no other human can do in terms of the girth I never thought of Ronnie as a beautiful bodybuilder and I've always thought a body body has to have some beauty to it nothing pretty about Ronnie's physique but there's nobody else that can duplicate that because of the amount of weights that he lifted we're never gonna see anybody lift that kind of weight he was a power lifter didn't look like Ronnie you got to do what Ronnie's doing and there's no one gonna do what Ronnie did so I found a little satisfaction and beating him in the early years because I can always brag about it I beat him but of course once he wanted he it was a stranglehold and even though he ended kind of poorly yeah it was kind of it was gonna change because of the things he was doing and I think we're missing one more which I would say Samira knows Samira knew from me you put some stuff for me and you got to remember when I started when I started I didn't have a Phil Keith I didn't have a Dorian I didn't have a Jay Cutler but what's very impressionable we all remember our first I remember the first time I lifted weights right I remember the first time I open the magazine and I saw Bob Harris before I saw any of these guys but when I saw Samir Bannu in 1983 as mr. Olympia the split in the bicep with the Lions with Betty wieder with the Sandow trophy and Mohammed Mack away there in the shadows I thought there's I thought it was six feet tall and maybe 400 pounds you couldn't put him in a box so free if not for Sameer I probably wouldn't have gone to this business the way that I did as an artist I never lost the artistry of bodybuilding which is why you never saw me with the bloated gut and all that other stuff I posed out of shape once once and there's like a couple of pictures floating around the internet that remind me that I made that mistake but Sameer to me was what mr. Olympia was supposed to be all those other guys that are worthy of that title they're great champions but like I never aspired to be a Phil Heath and maybe it's cuz he's younger than me but with Sameer being older and laying the footprints that's what I kind of always kept in mind while I was training in the gym it's very tough to have prior generations but somebody that's younger than them yeah in the list I don't you know even in basketball and baseball it's just a different kind of it's almost like you have to go to another sport I gotta go to another see a younger player doing something that I've always wished that I could be right like I always I always wanted to be like Mike Tyson right but you can bodybuilding you can't be that way but Mike was just the beast and an animal that's how I approach the weights and I took my my battles out on my training partner it's the way that Mike did on is so I Paul is the first to say this the longest bodybuilding interview we've ever done I don't know what I've never done it this long I want to see this Kizer so long as we've ever done we've touched a lot of topics I certainly hope the IFB B's watch and I certainly hope the Olympia folks are watching obviously the bodybuilding folks are watching because it come visit us here all the time but there was a and I also appreciate you being a class act for allowing me to push you and you pushing back and giving your points because I think that's how I get educated sure for me you've been in this thing for you pretty much your entire life it's not my part I just appreciate the sport and I admire what many of you did with your physique and I'm gonna give the exposure to the business because I like this business so appreciate you for coming I appreciate your answers and hopefully I will see you in September at the mr. Olympia so I can kind of see from the business standpoint yeah well someone leave you this parting thing is that a lot of the bodybuilders think that the industry owes them something I mean everything I've gotten was from bodybuilding and I think a lot of the guys before me can say the same thing but you reap what you sow like I'm not mr. Olympia but I'm still able to go out and get sponsors for the things that I'm involved in that happened to do with bodybuilding we're the next generation of bodybuilders are gonna come from so which enables me to do the Sean Ray Classic which enables me to send people to the mr. Olympia to watch it to send people out to my show in Hawaii to watch it so representing companies like the watch company like the clothing company like the tanning company it enables me to be able to give back and also feed my kids so it becomes a business you can't just rely on the prize money right you have to find what find your niche and it's not through social media it's through relationships I told greed with that and obviously you know where I stand with some of the stuff on what Olympia could do to give them a like really reach out a little bit more but I fully agree with you and although if you want to follow and send them a message we'll put you [ __ ] so we'll put the Instagram account and any websites you got for following what with Shana Zune we're gonna put all the links below having said that brothers after limit I'm and really I enjoyed it thanks for hanging up this is great thank you so if the topic of mist or Olympian what we talked about today bodybuilding intrigues you there's two other videos I want you to watch another interview I did with Ronnie Coleman if you want to watch I click over here or a sit that I did with during the eights when there's a six time with Stroh Olympia the other ones an eight-time both of them priceless if you like bodybuilding and mr. Olympia and if you haven't subscribed to the channel please subscribe thanks for watching everybody buh-bye [Music]

Channel: Valuetainment

Views: 584,218

Rating: 4.8472033 out of 5

Keywords: shawn ray, shawn ray bodubuilder, dorian yates, ronnie coleman, phil heath, mr olympia, ifbb, patrick bet david, valuetainment, sports interviews, sugar shawn ray

Id: piYrmJSw5IU

Length: 129min 22sec (7762 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 07 2020