Phil Hellmuth SPEAKS OUT On Tom Dwan, Daniel Negreanu, And Heads Up Challenge

what's up guys Doug pulk here and today we're joined for another podcast with a guest I mean if you don't know who this guy is you must not have been in poker for the last I don't know 20 or 30 years one of the most famous and successful poker players in the entire world I'm joined by Phil helmuth yeah and I mean you're you're upswing at a nice little article I like that you know I didn't know that was you you did a nice little article how good is Phil helm Youth and so many people in their 20s just don't they haven't seen the numbers and the math and you did a nice little article and uh and and uh you know so I mean I have a pretty good Roi yeah it's actually funny you bring that up because I had it as a topic to talk about how insanely good you've done the World Series because when we started up all right let's let's make some articles about some you know notable players uh let's see how good Phil H me is and we're like we actually like went through and looked at every cash Roi amount of buyin and we were looking at we're like this guy's actually just crushing these events and I tweeted at you or up tweeted at you and I remember your response vividly you said actually you guys listed too many buyin I had less buyin in these results it's true I mean you you thought I was playing like 32 to 35 I was more playing like 28 events so yeah I mean I I don't know now I'm just I just started off bragging but I guess people expect that but yeah I mean I I have I think I have the best Ro wi history by far I think I'm a I think that you look at the chart and I'm up here USA Today did an article too so I feel pretty good about my no limit hold them I don't get to play it enough at the series because there's so many other events but you know hopefully I'll crush the poker Masters but I also think Doug and you may or may not agree with this but for me personally I feel like we're baseball players in a sense that we have this curve and if you catch me at the top of the curve I just Crush Jason Mercy was top of a curve last year you know and then we have other great players who were more at the top of the curve this year cple two guys won two bracelets right and then but then if you catch me down here I'm not quite as strong and I can't exactly tell you why except to say if you look at a great baseball player for some reason they're crushing the ball for a month and a half and then they're in a slump so I really think that there's some random timing involved in some of this stuff so um I think that's a factor for us yeah I mean you definitely have you know heaters and cold stretches I mean that's part of being a poker player I think anyone that's not gone through that I mean at some point reality is GNA set in right and there's gonna be even if you're a great player you're gonna have good times you're gonna have bad times I've always been a little bit more aggressive with my bankroll so I definitely went through some times where I lost a lot of money that I probably should not have lost uh but actually you know what so while we're talking about the World Series let's like jump right into some into some of the stuff about that and my first question for you here is why do you think that you managed to do so well in these World Series events because your results are awesome you constantly go deep you know and it's hard to get a big sample size right but you've been playing these for for I mean at least a couple of decades you know like three three decades of playing these tournaments so you know when I look at when I look at that sample I feel like you've done really well and then sometimes I see Hands Where from like you know I'm more of a technical side player I would say I see a hand and I and I'm like I would never do that you know I would never do that why do you think you've managed to do so well despite playing you know a very different style than we see from a lot of the young players today well I think that's interesting I think I think if I were in the shoes of the young great players today I would try to learn from me I would pay attention I'd be like well what is he doing that I don't understand what is he doing that I think is bad I would try to learn I always looked at the great players when I was young and tried to learn what are they doing what their reasoning because why wouldn't you learn and get better and I think too many people are just like oh I saw missplay one hand on high stakes you know we were filming a 100 days a year of course I look horrible on a bunch of those hands of course that's just natural and normal just like if every one of you guys were being filmed we would catch you having bad days and bad hands those hands got played and so you know and so so I think that there's just kind of a by the way I can't I have to segue to something here Doug okay we're already segueing you you and I gonna have way too many Segways but 10h handed at the one drop and if I can last one more spot I'm going to be the first guy to make three tables in the one drop I've only played four of them so it would have been pretty cool to make three out of four but you were there 10h handed and you rolling with queens and if you go broke I make that final table by the way and and I'm sorry I feel I feel terrible about it no I don't what did opponent have ace9 or something oh man I can't even remember there dude pH if you lose that pot I'm at that final table I know I'm lucky no you you played great you deserved it nice job I I appreciate that Phil I I really do man so so you think do you think that there's do you think that there's like a side of Poker that is kind of getting lost on a lot of the younger generation the the the the white magic if you will is not something that the younger players are using and do you feel like that's something that they should use more there are some great young players that have really good white magic all right and and I wonder sometimes I wonder sometimes if you have it and don't even know it because I think that it's really funny I don't think you could have done what you've done so far without having some reads so the funny thing is I look at you and you might think this is funny and I'm like he actually has pretty good reads why is he going so far the other direction saying he doesn't have reads and saying it's all all math because I just don't think you're going to see the math guys no math guys going to win 10 bracelets and so I just don't think that'll ever happen you look at the guys that are down there consistently over the years and they have some great reading abilities and your generation there are some guys I mean I think of uh you know uh Byron cavman is having really good reads uh there's three or four other guys that that I should name off the top of my head um merer can have some good reads sometimes um there's a there's a bunch of guys we love Mercier here in the channel I know I know I know I know by and by the way I might ask you a hard question at some point too oh oh you you can anything you can ask me whatever man all right what's the deal with you and nanu because I love both of you guys what's up okay all right so so here's the thing about nanu um when I first got into pogre and I was coming up in the game not even even before that right when I first found about poker and I watched poker I really love Daniel Neo we're talking like 10ish years ago or so right I watched all the high stes poker stuff you know I saw him constantly I thought he had all the reads you know how he'd be like you have quads call and but he was always right you know like he knew all the hands and stuff I always tease him about that's my number one tease is Daniel you're great at reading people why do you keep calling so so anyway I I've always like from the get-go when I got into poker uh I really like nanu you know I thought he was like a fun guy I thought he was a good poker player and could read people and I guess I guess part of the problem has been through like my development as a player I feel like we've always kind of had situations where we're on opposite sides of the fence and the first the first example of that is and I think it was 2013 or something like that he tweeted out that he could beat 2550 in like two weeks of study or something and the thing is like as someone that has come from like an online background around I felt like it was kind of insulting to the on to online community like those games are extremely hard like I don't think I could beat 25 56 Max certainly not right now I would need to study and get better and whatever um so like I I felt like I wanted to stand up for the community and say like look man like wait wait wait wait wait wait also it's partly your own ego you have to admit that right you're young it's hard to admit at a young age if I asked you this question in 10 years you'd say yes this is partly my ego can you answer that now and say that well I would say it's partly ego obviously I want online poker to be respected but also keep in mind Phil like the game type he was talking about I didn't really play that much like it wasn't like he was like I would crush Doug heads up then oh yeah there would be some ego okay that's a good Counterpoint but but still yeah I I I wanted to make sure that like I I guess I felt that when you slight online players for like not being as good as they are when it's so tough to come up in that world um yeah I just I I don't know it didn't feel and then he didn't do it right he just said it and he didn't really do it so that was kind of our first like scuffle uh and then and then The Rake The Rake thing and and I'm trying to kind of move away from the rake thing a little bit just because I feel like it's just gotten beaten to death and like all the good jokes have been done and I'm ready to kind of move on as well but uh I did feel that when he says some when he said some of the things he said that it wasn't cool and they and and it just wasn't true you know it's it's not good for poker players if the rake goes up you know maybe it's good for one agree yeah I think it's a fair point I thought you know I mean I thought like like Daniel and I get along great I never I if you look back I've never attacked him ever in a public form um but I'm willing to discuss and I do think that I do think that if he wasn't I do think that he probably shouldn't have gone and said that you know hinted that rake is better you know I mean rake is better yeah you if you work for poker stars you know what I mean uh but I find Daniel to be very authentic and honest and uh occasionally occasionally you know I think maybe he was just a little bit off key with this one yeah for sure no like I'm not saying I mean look no one's perfect you know I've said things I'm wrong about but I guess like the biggest problem was you know he would just always double down like no I never said that but here's why it's true kind of with like that article that he wrote um and and and when someone you know says something and then says they didn't say it but like kind of did I just really hammered it because again like I wanted to kind of stand up for the community of people where you know this rake increase is gonna hurt them you know so as far as like nanu personally uh you know I'm not like vegan and all that stuff and I feel like he can be a bit preachy about that but you know I I do have a lot of respect for the work that he continues to put in I mean look like there are the biggest names in poker right and and like the three or four you're both on the list so like of the biggest names in poker the two people that are still really out there promoting the game and working and and building and bringing people in are you in NE granu you know and I have a lot of respect for that the fact that you can go that many years still love the game and still be a part of it but I also just sometimes want to make sure that if something funny happens or I need to say something to stand up for people that I'm also going to take that approach all right that seems reasonable that's a good answer I also feel like I also feel like I heard you say that you respected Daniel and uh and I think he respects your game as well we talked about you once or twice and uh oh to be a fly on the wall for me for me it's kind of good for me I like it when when when the great players get along you know I told the guys I tried to pull players back together in 05 06 07 08 when we were really starting to take off and I'm like listen if Nike comes to me and gives me a shoe don't be jealous because Reebok's coming to you support that praise that feel good about that we need corporate money in poker and so you know I mean I think that I've always strived to get along with doy Brunson and Johnny Chan and and the whole community and I think I've done a a great job I feel like I have zero enemies there might be a couple guys that don't like me but I mean zero enemies is what it feels like I mean I you probably can think of somebody that attacks me somewhere but whatever uh I feel like in the poker Community I play every day with all these 10K players they put up with me they're tolerant of me and my Antics yeah no I I I do think that you have this this Persona going um this whole being the greatest which is your Instagram screen name and I find that hilarious just just your screen name what why did you make that your name why why did you like promote that you know hash pH nice life like type of living I feel that's aspirational I feel like people should want to I feel like if you're a poker player uh having 14 bracelets is aspirational hanging out with you know I just tweeted out that I signed books for President Clinton Elon Musk Jim Harbaugh Cheryl sandre just this week Draymond Green and so it's kind of an aspirational life that I lead I'm hanging out with some of the coolest people on the planet and uh and and I know it and I'm at some of the coolest places some of the coolest hotels and so it I understand that I have a very cool life I'm not I'm thankful I'm really thankful for that and so you know I I think it's a bit aspirational the pH nice life as an aspirational hashtag I try to use it at the coolest moments the positivity is very important to me thinking positive you know me um you know we did an amazing we did a really fun video you and I uh we did a really fun kind of I guess I just call it a video where were we in Philly oh yeah we were at uh we were at the sugar house and give me give me one second here Phil I think we might have some technical problems we're seeing some complaints in the chat are we back okay we're back I don't know what happened apparently there was some lag or whatever yeah we did we got to sit down that was really cool by the way thank you for doing that um just like sit down we had dinner had a couple drinks hanging out and I was all right let's just let's just stream it let's just like say what's up and and like I'm awkwardly like turning my neck to get into the camera and the quality was so bad because the Wi-Fi was bad but that was honestly a really good authentic um that was a really authentic experience and I think a lot of people really enjoyed that that uh I don't know stream kind of podcast whatever You' want to call it well I'm misunderstood I'm misunderstood generally by the public right I mean you know if you look you look within the poker world you're in the poker world and people in general tell you you're always You're going to hear it from 99% of the people that they like me you know as a person that I'm out there having fun you know I'm hanging out with people doing dinners and I think I'm pretty accessible and you know that's what you hear but then the Public's like oh this guy's an ass you know he's all he does you know they just show the one% the one tenth of one% of my life where I'm Bill you got to admit there have been a a at least a few moments where you were an [ __ ] of course no of course no at the table that's what I'm saying at the table sometimes I lose it for sure what people don't see is I always apologize to my opponents and the other thing is almost everybody I play in the 10ks with every day they just laugh at me when I go off they're all go so the world you know I mean it's just Phil losing it it's like John it's like John macenroe when he's screaming and yelling because the ref screwed up a call you know I'm like I can't believe I got this unlucky but people enjoy the show now there's been a corner that was turned like maybe three years ago so I feel like it's rare rarely sometimes I get really kind of upset at an amateur and then occasionally they're upset and I feel bad but most Bros just laugh it off yeah I mean frankly I I think in general if you're going to be a professional poker player and you're GNA let like a few words get to you like you're gambling for thousands and thousands of dollars if someone's saying something mean because they just got stacked when you sucked out or something is gonna offend you you're in the you're in the wrong business yeah I mean I think you know almost I never like I'm a great winner a great winner you never hear me I'm quote you on that a great winner when somebody when somebody puts all their money in with 104 offit and I win I never say a word when they beat me and I have like Aces or Ace King now it's a little different I'm not unfortunately I'm a very poor Loser yeah do do you okay so that's actually a good topic to talk about do you feel like when you're Los by the way by the way let's get you know let's do it let's do it I'm really I I do have to say I'm super excited about poker brat um it seems like it's gone it seems like it's going global um you know I needed to the New York Times bestseller list of course you know I have a on the back Neu gave me a quote Cheryl Sandberg gave me a quote Tony Robbins Jim Harbaugh Draymond Green had one ready for me uh and so it's could even make the list it's really fun it's so I mean I'm really excited about the book I just spent five days in the studio doing the audio version and I think for me the great the most exciting thing when I talk about this book and I'm going on Squawk Box this week and I'm going on power lunch on CNBC and there's a big article on the Wall Street Journal coming out on me on Saturday in the New York Post I'm getting some major media there's a bunch of big stuff coming in London as well so I'm getting this Global attention for the book which is great but for me I talk about and I think the pro poker players watching this can all get something out of it I talk about how I struggled in high school like most of us did and was able to make something of myself I talk about what it's like to hold together in marriage for 27 28 years now and there's a chapter about how I almost left my wife in 2015 she didn't like that there's a chapter on how she almost how is she gonna like that because I talk about issues there's a chapter on how she almost left me in 0102 and I talk about issues and how we fought through them and everyone's going to be able to relate to those issues so I think it's really readable and I think it's inspirational so anyway I'm really proud of this book it's been getting ra reviews which is wonderful so awesome yeah I'm definitely have to check it out and what what's one thing about the book that if someone reads it what do you think is one one thing they're going to take away from the book about you that they wouldn't have known otherwise well I think there's a new there's a new respect right there's the one thing of people seeing me on air occasionally losing it or actually you know Doug I mean you know this you're Prof I mean you're you're around the cameras and they will you know if I ever lose it I might just play for three days without losing it I lose it for one minute that's what's played on ESPN by the way so I know poker Brat's a good title but I think people would would would say wow you know Phil solid I mean here's a guy that's never cheated on his wife you know here's a guy that keeps trying hard he wants to inspire the world here's a guy that my next book's called positivity how to achieve great things in life book and I think millions of people are going to read it I can help out the world a lot and I think that that's a pretty cool thing you know I mean I think I raised $46 million for charity events I've mced people are going to see that you know and and there's a list of all the events I've done and you know I do one for Tiger Woods I have one coming up uh in New York for Children's Hospital Philadelphia you should I have another one coming up in uh Chicago that's a crazy one uh we raised about 1.7 million in one night for teaching tolerance charity yeah you know what I I feel like that's maybe something that it is getting kind of lost on my generation of players you know I I I think that you've definitely taken that role of being a an ambassador for the game trying to use it to promote good causes and being really active on that front just in general um I don't really see that you know when you talk about being on the cameras and everything and how they always find that one moment I feel like the new generation of players they don't really even care about the cameras or the you know the promotion or like what good it's doing or they're just there for the ranges and the like you know the the the check raise strategies and whatnot and like do you feel like maybe that there's something kind of being lost on that younger generation yeah I mean you know two things one you talk about kind of the concept you're hinting around a little bit of balance balance is important in life and that's what I've strived to achieve I have you know two grown children now um but then to segue back to what you really talking about here and that's like what's happening with the younger generation and and I just wish that you know I mean a lot of people came right from their internet right to this world and so they could spend time in their basement I'm not there's a there's a ton of super cool people in your generation that I love but there's also a bunch that are a little bit more socially awkward they came from playing online and they come in and they stare down so now we're playing with Rich amateurs that want to play poker with us that are there for the thrill and the joy and some of these guys are long-term winners and some aren't but they don't want someone staring them down for 30 seconds every single time they make a decision it's bad for poker you're driving out we I will tell you for a fact we lost a bunch of people in the 111k in the million dooll buying tournaments because they said I don't want to deal with this anymore I don't want some random kid staring me down for 30 seconds every time I make a decision poker should be fun and so I think that that's been bad for the game is this again staring people down taking forever to act on your hand and it's just like you should be social having fun and you know we understood that coming up that's why there's a lot of characters right because yeah we're also entertainers right I mean people want to play high stakes poker with us now I just can't help myself that's just me but some guys are just like you know I mean and a lot of guys came up with with lower self-esteem you know and found poker and trying to balance it so someone like mile can get a little bit weird weird I love Mike he's a good friend of mine someone like me can get a little bit you did that to me I can't believe this is happening blah BL blah but it's entertaining and I I think that it actually drives people in to the television to watch and into the game John hesp was good for all of us this was our best Final Table we've had in years because people were talking more they were having fun you didn't see some of the stuff so if I'm a young professional poker player I I take I look at my responsibility for not maybe not growing the game but for at least not stopping the game in its tracks I think that that's completely true and I I have personally in these high rollers I remember in the one drop a couple years ago in the 100K one where you know so someone well known for tanking and I don't want to just attack the few people that we all kind of know who they are but someone well known for tanking was just tanking ridiculous ly on on level two and there was a business guy at the table and he just he just looked at the guy he's like you know this is making me not even want to be here and can you blame them they're there to play for fun and hang out and whatever and and you know what the difference is that though to Phil like sometimes you do have to take your time you know and so I understand you're playing for a lot of money trying to use your Edge to a point but then you also have to realize that particularly in these softer Fields with a lot of business guys you're not thinking about yeah okay you might be making another dollar or two right now right by what you're doing but you might be costing yourself a lot more than that in the long run by these people not continuing to play what's going to happen is this you know there's already been some discussion about and and believe it or not there's been some discussion about this about having Invitational only tournaments and just shutting out all these guys that just tank and stare you down and just aren't fun to be with and you know and and they brought it on themselves and this is going to be this is going to really this is really going to chaff them I mean you know here's these guys have been successful but nobody wants to play with them not because they're great players but because they're just a bit borish and not fun and like you know and this is going to really shake things up because I think this is going to happen and then they're gonna and then the the the boring players that aren't invited all the ones that we shut out that are going to get shut out you know all of a sudden they're going to be like what the hell we're going to sue them because they can't shut us out and then what we have like lawsuits because people are boring I mean this is this is a real thing Doug i i Phil you think I don't know about getting shed out of games oh listen You'll never get you see you're a big personality you're you're very good for the game and you're very good for the game and I'm not just saying that I wouldn't I don't just say [ __ ] it's just not my style I'm straight up but you've been great for the game you're yes you're doing upswing poker and and you're making a lot of money but everybody's happy because you're bringing in all these new players these guys that are doing kind of the YouTube uh YouTube uh um what would you call them blogs or Vlogs videos yeah Vlogs right they're doing for the small stake stuff like one and2 blind no limit hold them these guys are great for the game people are watching them and they're saying this is the game I play and this is how I want to learn so yeah you're good for the game and you're always smiling and having fun too I don't see you staring people down for 30 seconds and when you did stare someone down on on ESPN the other day at least you kept it entertaining you're like I should go with my read no no no I'm gonna go with the math no I'm gonna go with my read That's entertaining so I mean you know we need we need more of that I I really appreciate that Phil that means a lot to me you know especially as one of the newer players uh and and having grown up watching players like you on TV and the personalities and everything you know it means a lot to me uh when you say that and I also I always tell myself when I'm playing poker because obviously it's fun to win it's easy to be happy and R and high when you're winning right but I always just try and tell myself that I'm very fortunate to be here I'm very thankful to be here and you know win or lose at the end of the day I'm happy for the life poker has given me because without poker you know and this is true for you as well without poker you know who would we be we would be nobody right we're lucky that we found that game to begin with yeah I mean poker's done so much for me I mean I always say poker is my life and it is my life and you know and yeah sure now I have great balance in my life all these events I do all this money I raise for charity and and you know I mean I charge $25,000 for charity events but I feel great about that because my average charity event raise is a million dollars I'm charging 2.5% and I've watched charity models for 30 years where you know what they keep 95% they throw the charity 5% I have that flip on its head and so it makes me feel good I mean I did an event for uh Michael Finley down in Dallas you know and uh I mean I've never seen so many celebrities I mean just go back and look at the social media from that event they only raised like 150,000 I gave back a bunch of the money because I can't you know and I said listen I don't want to do a charity unless it raises a million because I want to get to a $100 million and money raised for charity it's an active goal of mine right now and I'm on my way I mean you're going to get there really actually so let's talk about this for a moment what so one thing I really respect in really anyone is drive you know waking up every day the grind getting stuff done and then kind of in the field that we're in it's a mixed bag of playing uh and then also the social media side the video side the streams the ESPN you know you know the life you you know the whole thing so what after so many years of doing the same thing of being in this game what what makes you still hungry to get out there and accomplish more because you know in the world of Poker there's really only so much more that someone like you can do what what keeps you hungry man you know I hear that question I think a weird thing is I don't even understand it half the time because I care so much about being it's like a lifetime goal in 1993 be the greatest poker player of all time well I can't get there on the cash games nobody knows you and I've had I've you know I've thrown this out there 100 times if you're a cash game player you we know who the greatest maybe five cash game players are some of those guys are also good at being invited to the right games some of those guys are good at borrowing money when they really need it some of those guys are really good at having other outside sources of income so we can't really tell you know I mean we can still tell you who four or five of the greatest are but would they if they didn't have those other skills which aren't really a part of Poker playing would they without those other skills still be where they are or would they have had a $2 million downswing and just never been heard from again and poker tournaments we start fresh every single day every single tournament you can prove something there and then so in 93 I decided to go after the World Series of Poker so to me that's just a no-brainer that's part of my DNA now is that I have to go there and try my hardest and I gotta tell you I hear I heard all these years people whining and complaining 2006 2007 all the great players coming in you know what I mean all looking forward to the tournaments five days in they're like screw this you know they've had no cashes you know and they're like screw it the cash games are much better and they just one by one drop out and disappear you know I don't I just keep firing and firing and firing and firing and it takes some discipline to do that now I had a blast this year I mean it was great for me 2017 I had so much fun competing and that's a blessing because it's not like that every year but yeah so you know and I didn't have unfortunately my best year I got started to get hot right at the end you talk about this curve I made a final table on Saturday well the main event start started on Saturday so I I ran out of tournaments when I really started to kind of heat up you know oh man what are you going to do but so so let's talk about playing these smaller Stakes events because one thing that it seems that you do a lot of are playing those smaller buy tournaments the larger Fields particularly in a lot of the mixed games what what's the experience like playing those compared to playing the one drop and do you enjoy playing in those types of events I love it I I love playing in in these in these mixed games $1,500 buying 500 or a th000 people it's great how many people were in the Raz tournament it was a $1,500 buying was it five or 600 or something and I final taed that I was all in one time or something I mean it's just great because you know you actually get to play against and it's interesting to see in these 1500 mix games you didn't have a lot of great players winning bracelets some of these guys are like well I'm going to focus on the 10ks and that's all I care about you know and then they finally all got smart and now you see a lot of great players every $1,500 event when you look at the final 16 players you're going to see like seven top players it's crazy and so you know I mean it's fun I mean it's fun to be able to smash a field that big it's very rewarding you know I mean I've won bracelets in field sizes of 3500 I mean I was just reading my autobiography I was finishing it up on uh Sunday doing the audio version and I was starting to read you know the field sizes that I crushing this last decade and I'm just like man that's kind of cool 30,600 players and I final tabled and 3,500 players and I won it the 1600 players I finished second had a massive chip lead and I'm just looking at these numbers and going this is cool and it's rewarding to be able to do that and you know what it takes all your skills because you have to play against Bad players and good players and adjust to the blinds and what everybody else is doing you know for three kind of intense days you also do you know not the take away from winning bracelets Lord knows I've won more than my share for the amount of events I've played but you also have to get really lucky to take down fields that big yes and no I think that's I think that's I think people overestimate because listen you play you play a very mathematical strategy which dictates sometimes that you feel it's correct and I'm not saying your mask not correct um but I look at it differently so you're going to play a lot more all-in pots there's just times where you just have to go with Ace Queen where you have to go with eights or nines I'm never putting my chips in with Ace queen or eights or nines so I'm just playing small pots playing small pots waiting for better spots waiting for times where I can just pick up chips by knowing my opponent has nothing you know I mean I watched devilfish do this I mean he went into the Hall of Fame he would just he'd triple up a stack every tournament without hands and he'd come to me and whine oh I finally picked up Kings and of course the sure the top Crow put it in with Ace Jack for some reason and now I'm back down to a stack and theyd steal it all the way up so I mean there was there's been a lot of opportunity for a lot of years even in modern poker if you read people well it's it's really a boon because you're going to be able to do things to them especially your generation was locked into this this Theory you know that they had to open for 2X and then someone else had to raise it to 4X and then like and I just come in and be like all right that's what they're doing well let me just call 2X and raise 7x because I know they're weak and I know they can't even call you know and so now I think maybe they have a pair of fives they can't call Seven x-rays with fives you might eventually adjust and start moving in with fives that's dangerous too though and you probably wouldn't think that's mathematically correct to stick in 80 big blinds with five even you with Five Burgers so I I not not my style of play so I mean you know so there's opportunities so I find sometimes when I'm really on I'm going really deep and I'm just trying to avoid one unlucky hand and you know at my best the 2012 wsope main event I was all in one time two hours in it had come like King 87 I had a set of eights I checked to let the guy hit a set of Threes I was all in and he had one out and then I won that tournament but that was my best read Fest of my life I mean like I was just like they had twox and I had 78 exit 2x 78 I just kept winning pots uncontested I mean it was great so I do think that there are other ways to think about it but yeah I mean um if my reads aren't on then I feel like I have to get lucky to make it deep but if my reads are on I feel that there's less luck that's all well yeah if you can make good reads then then for sure go with it but I you know the problem is that how confident you are in those reads should you know affects what you do and and you definitely you know you understand that the reason these younger guys are doing these strategies they're not doing them just because they're doing them because there's a lot of analysis put into what is the best strategy and they're trying to play as close to perfect poker as they really can now that might not capitalize on some of the recreational people but that certainly means something some of the sizes they use and strategies they use they have Merit though I I think I think I sounded I sounded if you rewind this a minute or two I sounded too like I didn't respect the younger gener that's completely the opposite of the case I I think that the theories you guys have developed are super elegant and super fun and make a lot of sense that's not what I'm saying I'm just saying that you know I'm just saying that I think that the white magic element can really um add a lot to that okay yeah that that seems that seems totally fair all right so so let's talk about this H how important in a poker player's career do you feel winning bracelets are now obviously you're going to be pretty Pro bracelets here uh given your your history but but do you think that do you think that they really are a measurement of success you know there is there is a lot of luck when it comes to to bracelets you know you have to win a lot of allins I know that you pride yourself on not having those situations happen but they're goingon to happen a lot I'm sure that on average if you look at bracelets that you've won there were some points in the tournament where a couple of cards needed to come out you know this is just the way tournaments are so how important do you feel that brace blets are in in for poker players in general yeah I mean you know sometimes I have nine1 suited and I'm all in and the other guy's Ace Queen and yeah I need that of course yeah um I think bracelets but I decided in 1993 that if I wanted to be the greatest poker player of all time so I had this goal this Vision you can become the greatest poker player of all time it started in 93 I talk about it in my book how can you get there only by winning bracelets and Hall of Fame championships you know my book talks about all the tournaments that we used to play I mean I won three or four hall of fame watches including the main event that was a huge tournament to us I won The Bicycle Club Main Event oh my God was that in 1988 you know I mean all these major did you say 88 I said 88 that's the year I was born I was in LA I was in LA for that that's right well that's that's the one I won in La that was a beautiful one that was kind of my first major hello world moment you know um actually let's talk about that so can you talk a bit about getting into poker and what your turning point was where you were you realized that you could be one of the greatest or the greatest at this well you know it's interesting um since we're talking about 1988 I I was I was having trouble managing my money everybody in their 20s has trouble with managing their money especially their lower 20s it's just a normal natural thing right and so I was having trouble but I'd written you know a a a whole code I'd written a pyramid and made you know a Pyramid of Success I talk about it in my book uh you know about the things you have to master at the top of the pyramid is money management and you and I both know this you can have talent up here and money management down here and you live a miserable life you can have talent right here and money manage if your talent's here and your money management is here you might live a very smooth life you're going to pay all your bills money management you mean the other way money Management's up here yes okay I said that money management I think I did it right okay but yeah when your money management is great and your talent is down here you can live a smooth life if it's the other way around you know I mean and you have a wife and kids man and you're wondering where the money from the bills is that that's that's brutal that's SC that that honestly seems scary it seems scary to think about for what a lot of the poker players that are kind of on the brink can have a family how do they how do they live like that it's tough and So eventually it gets beaten into you that it's all about money management so for me in 1988 I had decided my money management was really strong at the bike I went out there I shouldn't say that I brought $122,000 enough to play the 5K and the 1K with rebby and use about 3K for cash Games first night I lost probably eight or ,000 unfortunately but I was determined to stick to my plan land I had $2,700 left heading into the 1K with rebby I flew out there for two tournaments two two-day tournaments I played in it I rebot and then I bet a $500 last $400 last longer bet with somebody across the table thinking I'm going all in for my bank roll on this trip right I knew I could get a flight home back then you get a flight home for 180 bucks so I wasn't worried I could get a taxi to the airport so I'm all in with Deuces and guy's Ace Jack and the guy I had the side bet with and it comes all blanks I win this pot now you fast forward to the next day and Eric cidell and I are playing heads up for the tournament and and so instead of and we made a deal and so I walked away with like $62,000 so now but we were you're talking 3 in the morning now on day two we're exhausted so Eric beat me I had them all in seven or eight times I talk about this in the book it's kind of a fun so so then what do I do I go for a run through freaking the most dangerous neighborhoods in La at 3: in the morning because it's the only way I can recover from winning all this money from nothing I enter the 5K Eric said Ela first person out and I'm like well maybe it was good I didn't win that tournament I was looking for some positivity and I devised this whole system for how to play heads up running in my mind and my run and how I'd blown it against Eric and I'm thinking I'm gonna have to wait like months to use this in a tournament not day one get through day two I'm at the final table it's Johnny Chan it's TJ cludy it's Jack Keller the three best players in the world and me and you know and we're playing for $145,000 we get down to like four-handed and Jack Keller were talking about a deal and he asked for way too much money he's like yeah I can flip you had a massive chip lead I'm like all right let's play for a while but I'm super cautious and C Serv but I'm like [ __ ] because in those days 40% 20% 10% that's the way every prize pool was and so fortunately I busted Jack with like you know Ace Jack high or something crazy oh my God I'm gonna have to go get my I'm want 10% battery that's bad I'm gonna have to go solve that in a sec um 10% battery on the laptop yes okay yeah we're probably to solve that I'm gonna go get that in one second here um and so then I'm just going to finish the story run in there um and and get my uh plugin but anyway so now it's uh so now I bust Jack K with Ace Jack I bust somebody else with Ace King High and now I'm heads up and I win it no deal I won the last three pots with ace high which I thought was unusual and now I'm holding a major trophy there were like four majors per year you wanted the World Series of Poker but you wanted the big events at the bike Emerald Slims tournament and the US there's about four a year you really wanted to win so now I'm holding this trophy I have I was Deuces man I was this far away from leaving town with like 200 bucks you know and now I have $220,000 the major Trophy and I'm like where's the best place in La they're like spos restaurant Wolf Gang pucks place I go up there I walk in Ed McMahon slams a martini you know and I'm like oh I guess he really does like to drink you know and all of a sudden I mean it's just such a life Cher The Bicycle Club limo up to the best restaurant in town and and you know and these things I mean there's a lot of close calls to your point awesome is that in your book yeah that whole sequence is in my book in a little bit better detail actually hey um I might as well try to promote chemother while I run and get the uh while I run and get the uh damn it all right I'll be right back Doug less than a minute all right well we're gonna we're gonna keep it on me while Phil go and grabs us a quick power cord I want to give a couple shout outs in the chat here to you the good people of YouTube thank you for tuning in today we got a lot more we got we got several more topics uh that we're going to be talking about here including I want to talk a little bit about ultimate bet I know a lot of you guys asked about that um and a few few non poker related questions too so still a lot of great stuff coming up here on the podcast brought to you by apparently what appears to be kimosabi Mescal trusted friend anyway guys hi how are you doing jacobe 137 good glad to see you stop on by we a g moabi module don't know about that one don't know about that Mescal is great though honestly I do enjoy Mescal kimosabi is good stuff um okay so uh let's talk a little bit about uh some of the things that we talked about so far you know I think I think it's really interesting when we look at Phil hum's perspective um as someone that kind of came up like guys like I was born in 88 he his story turning point was the year I was born um so definitely a different unique perspective and I do think that there's there there's a skill set when it comes to reading people and knowing what they're up to what they're doing what they have uh that has value um and I'm not saying that I I never use those things but I only do it if it's close so it's a different it's a different approach to poker but definitely can have um a lot of Merit as well if you're good at it and I believe Phils back I am back let me just plug this thing in seven I'm glad I'm glad you noticed that it would have been uh it would have been an interesting moment as to what I was going to do while you were while you were offline okay let me all right so uh let's uh let me see is this good to go all right we're good to go okay so let's let's do another couple of questions here from a little bit more back in the day uh uh it is not help all right chat how's it going I think Phil is still going set up I think there's maybe some chance that the computer died perhaps I'm going to be okay uh let's talk to the chat a little bit do you guys have any uh comments or questions you want to talk about here while we wait for Phil to to get the computer going shout out to Eric Bowa subscriber here on the channel what's up man glad to have you here um Patrick Harper how's it going yeah we were going to talk about ultimate bet we're going to talk about who he thinks the top uh n hold players are under 40 we're gonna talk about U we've been through that we're gonna talk about this is a good one I think this is a great question I forgot exactly who tweeted it but I'm gonna ask Phil for what his number one favorite moment is his favorite TV moment he's had so many I want to ask him what his favorite one is um and then I want to ask him some questions about outside of Poker um what would he have done if he didn't find poker all that kind of stuff is is still on on the docket here assuming that uh he comes back so uh let's just take a few comments here from the chat talk about your heads up match all right so if you guys have not heard about this I'm going to be playing Phil helmuth we haven't even talked about that yet either I'm gonna be playing Phil helmuth uh heads up for $50,000 on August 22nd on poker night America um it is a four person winner take all tournament I'm excited to play Love heads up you guys know me uh so extremely excited to to uh to be part of that the matches are gonna be me and Phil helmuth and the other side of the bracket is or Phil your back nice I mean does your computer just cut off at seven per. I don't know man seems seems a little early all right anyway sorry about that no worries all right so yeah I was telling told you that long- winded story but um actually I want to show you one more thing Doug this is pretty cool sure now I'm the only one on the planet that has this phone this is a new essential phone it's uh so I've been posting these 3D videos it's super sleek and elegant the only people that have this phone right now are the guys that essential the guy that invented it Andy Ruben is one of the big Tech Guys on the planet so you have Bill Gates Steve Jobs and Andy ruin did um he's a guy that invented Android so he made billions of dollars Google paid and Ruben was like you know what I invented Android but there's no great phones out and so he's like we're going to do a really cool new phone and so I've been putting out these 3D videos so let me see can you see this I can I can see that yes and here is the camera for the device hooks up in the back here it's locked it should turn blue and then green in a second there it's green already and then okay so now if I just press a button I'm recording 3D video right now so what does that actually mean by 3D video like you could you could watch it in like a Oculus headset I I misspoke 360 video oh 360 okay so right now if I press a button it's recording you and I you can look at that area in my study you can see play poker like the pros over there you can see my trophies you can look over here and there's a pretty cool uh uh uh thing of me so you can see some of my you know trying to promote stuff here the kimosabi mecal off here to the side and uh but it's badass so I went to I went to Elon Musk I went on Friday night I was in Tahoe and I flew back here to my home just for 24 hours to go to the Tesla Model 3 launch and I brought this 3D camera with me and I was uh trending number two on Twitter and I released a 3D video of the Tesla Model 3 sent it out that night my friend uh got one and so what's really cool is this video you can so once I put up the video and you can see it on my social media you can watch it you have to watch it in probably in the YouTube app you can so I'm doing the video but you can swipe left or right as the video is going it will show my face if you want my shoes gold shoes of course the sky or the Tesla Model 3 which you probably watch so it's amazing technology these phones are are coming out probably within a month but I'm honored that they somehow gave me I mean I know they talk to Taylor Swift and all these other really cool people and I'm not in that League I was pretty honored uh to to to be a part of this wh what's the phone called again it's the company's called essential e n t i a l and it's I mean I think I think it's an Android version and a regular it's pretty cool so basically it's going to be a really expensive phone like a $7 or $800 phone um which I think a lot of guys like you and I will buy um I also see you know I also see that uh yeah you and I will buy all right so let me ask you a couple questions here what what is the is that stethoscope in the background it is actually yeah you can barely see that why do you have a frame stethoscope okay this is um so my grandfather George a helmuth used to work at Mercy Hospital in Chicago he was a world famous heart surgeon I mean known throughout the world he won the American Heart Association physician of the year in 1973 so he was globally famous and he's the one that did research on what eggs do as far as cholesterol goes and you know unfortunately for my grandpa he died in his early 60s and he didn't have great health I mean when you're doing that much I think you know and and I think that's why my father took a little bit of an easier path and and for me an easier path I have passion for what I do every day like you do and you know I'll take days off I mean that's the nice thing about my life is that I set it up so I can sleep in 80% of the days of my life because I want a long life I have a lot to live for you know yeah definitely that's cool man it's always cool to to remember remember the you know people in your family that came before you absolutely all right so uh let's let's talk about we have a few other things lined up here um you've had a lot of notable TV moments without question yeah what does is there any one or me one or two that really stand out as your favorite TV moment wow I don't know about favorite I mean I was kind of embarrassed this year when I went a little bit crazy at Adam Owen in the Raz tournament he put some ridiculous beat on me in 15 and I won the bracelet anyway and then he put more of kind of like a a you know I mean his board was we're playing R his board was 44 King he kept coming and won this s and oh I saw this on I saw this on Reddit you had tweeted out saying 23 left good stack like ready to do my best hash positivity and then poker news caught your response when he showed the king for or when his board was King 44 and you were going I actually I did a video on this I I made fun of this in a video because it was three hours later and you went ballistic bananas I went bananas and you know and here's the thing and and and and the thing is I like Anam moan I think he's a good guy and so you know I mean like but it had nothing to do with like whether I liked him or not I just went crazy in this hand and I think there was like 14 left it was a KEYT I mean would have put me right at the chip lead it was kind of a bad beat it was an ugly beat and uh you know so that was embarrassing you know I also lost it at Terrence Chan uh I was playing just amazing limit hold him I felt like of all the bracelets I should have won I should have won my fourth limit Holden bracelet because I was playing Amazing I don't think that people even know how to play limit Holden tournaments properly anymore but he had King 10 I raised with Jack I was playing like one hand an hour and it came a Jack four and he decided to peel and he hit a queen and I just went crazy it would have put me to 500,000 and second chips and I think I cruised to that final table I started whining and whining and I liked his response he's like flooran he's like this guy can't talk like this but I'm always very careful when I start whining to not direct it at any individuals I always they did this they did that these people are the worst and there's floorman on both sides waiting for me to say him or you know to point at somebody or something you know I didn't get any penalties this this summer but I was those are two moments I I was embarrassed with and I just I wish I could handle myself better in those moments um but that's just me I'm just so hyper competitive you know I mean do has that changed at all for you over time because one thing I'm echoing one thing one thing I've seen you know in poker is that I think when people start to enter the game they they get really tilted easily it's so unfair that this could happen to them and then over time I think players tend to get a bit better you seem like you've managed to keep a pretty steady just not hap not being a happy camper when things don't go your way do you think that's ever gonna change or is that just who you are I've gotten better I mean in 07 I didn't do it at all wow I don't know what it was like before then well in ' 07 I didn't do it at all and I had a first a second third a fifth 13th 16th it was crazy and these were huge fields in 07 um I remember Madson and I or maybe it was 06 we were battling for but I I just didn't whine at all I just was able to gather myself quickly so at that point there were stories written the poker bread is dead you know philth has lost this part no not not at all so I mean it's just it's also a function of how tired you are so when I played two 10hour days and you know and now we're on our third day and we're three hours into that I'm exhausted and then I'm I'm more lot a lot more susceptible to go crazy when someone hits a queen belly Buster on me or when someone takes the four or four king and beats me um so I wish I could do better in those spots and I'm getting better and I just think there's going to be one year in the next three or four where I don't want it all but uh don't uh don't wait too long for it I won't wait I won't hold my breath that's for sure uh all let's talk about this uh iconic Phil H's moment where you told we talked a little about this on our on our last stream I want to bring it up really quick here as well where you told Tom dwan he's not even gonna be around in five years and and we also have a question here from Miguel Rodriguez thank you by the way for the donation when will we see you and Tom dwan play heads up again the People Want it I love Tom dwan now what people don't know is Tom dwan and I have had a lot of fun I mean when we're on Planes together we sit next to each other we played Chinese poker the whole flight we've had big swings back and forth like that um he's invited me to go to nightclubs in Vegas and I show up you know I'll just show up I don't mind walking into do a nightclub by myself in Vegas I'm treated it feels like I'm treated like a god so when I show up security is like it's Phil I'm like oh I'm going to Tom dwan's table zip and you're in you know and so and so I I really like him and I have a lot of respect for the way he plays that's all true um I don't think that I said that he wouldn't be around in five years I think I said let's see if you're around come on you were clearly implying that he's not going to be I was implying it but I didn't say it oh that's such a lame comp out if you say we'll see if you're around in five years buddy or whatever you said that doesn't mean yeah we'll see like he could be he might not be no one knows Tom was great for is great for poker but I think he especially was great for poker because he's kind of disappeared the last two years no one really sees him um I know that he's playing in the super high stakes in maau I mean I've heard they passed million dollars back and forth him and a couple of the the super VIPs over there passing million dollars $5 million like it's water and so I think he's in a really good spot over there and uh and I think he's a good guy you know I don't want to hammer this too much this is another one of those sub I feel like we've talked a lot here on this channel but um all in all I I agree with most of that sentiment the real problem for me is the way that he handled the challenge with jungle you know we're g I'm gonna talk about that with jungle tomorrow in the podcast so stay tuned for that guys but um I just don't feel like he handled that in in the correct way I mean like you know if you say we're gonna have a side bet for x amount and then you know it's been years don't you just feel like he should pay jungle the money that I mean realistically jungle is owed yeah I mean it feels to me like stalling is not a reasonable option you know stalling is not reasonable um but you know they did they write anything in there where people weren't allowed to stall it's kind of implied right and so yeah so I mean I don't know anything about that situation I haven't followed at all this is like I've heard some Rumblings here and there about it that's about it um but yeah he he should definitely finish it's been too long yeah I always hear things about uh Tom dwan you know in general that are positive I've heard some mutterings of him doing extremely well this year or whatever um but then when you have these outstanding balances I just I I you know I don't know about you this is actually we talked about pokker night America where you were mad at sha deeb uh but like as a newer age player I never have debts really you know like I maybe have like a couple of people that we have like a balance that might be like a little negative or a little positive for a bit or whatever but if you ask me like right now Doug how many people do you owe more than you know $10,000 to I would say the answer is I haven't checked sheets in a little bit I want like J to be in the chat like oh you owe me 12 or whatever but I would say zero people you know I have I have basically no outstanding balances and throughout my poker career I I've made a point to not have those balances um so I guess I just see if you're doing well why not pay off what you owe I agree 100% with that you know I mean right now I think I owe one person some money and we have to sit down and decide exactly what it is yeah what are you what are you doing Tuesday just Kidd I don't think I owe you any money that I remember I don't know did thousand or something now you're scaring me no uh I think old school players are great in general old school players are great at paying their debts and they pay quickly and that's just the way it's been I mean somebody like old school yeah okay um you know and we don't have to ask for it you know I mean some of the new school players when they owe me a couple thousand dollars they don't say anything and I don't see them for a while whereas I can't wait to people to pay people I just don't like owing um you know Mike the mouth Mato has taken a lot of criticism over debts he's owed and stuff like that and I mean here's a guy that he booked me for he fell into my trap okay my trap was whenever I when I was playing cash games in La I would be sitting there and I'd be like Mike look I just called to draw four cards you know what I mean and he'd run around the room and say Phil just do four cards Phil just so I'd call him over like when I was in the big blind and I called a race to Drew five or if I see him walking by I might raise on the butt and everybody would one guy would call and I'd draw five and I'd say look Mike I just drew five cards and and so he spread he be like oh Phil sucks at Cash games Phil sucks at Cash games so he booked me for for a year he's which which was Manning up I like it he booked me every for a year wow and I think I had a bad year I think I only won 275,000 or something in the cash games I think I would have won more if I wasn't being booked because I held back a little bit there were some spots I wanted to be really careful and make sure that and he paid me every penny it took him a couple of years but he paid me every penal every penny uh one time he one time I bet the Boston Celtics at 20 to1 to make the NBA Finals now I love that bet and this was about five six years ago they had won the championship then they'd had serious injuries and now it's year three and I'm like it's the same team and they're healthy but they were big underdogs on the board too Orlando was tough that year Cleveland was tough that year well they made the finals and so you know Mike and I didn't sell any of it off until like so I made so Mike had to pay me like $65,000 and he didn't have a lot of cash and he's paid so he's paid me a lot of money over the years and so I don't like seeing his reputation get hurt let me actually quickly clarify because we have like a lot of uh I would say more casual fans here in the channel booked means cross book so it means however Phil did over the course of the year at the end of the year uh Mike would get the opposite result so if Phil lost 100K Mike would win 100K but what happened happened was Phil won 275,000 so uh so Mike owed him that that's what booked means just to clarify this up for B cross book's different though cross book is where I I book your results you book my results and we pay each other the difference in Balance sorry yeah M Mike was stupid I don't know what he was thinking he bought into this all I showed him the magic tricks of me being I showed him whenever I played a hand bad I'd call him over and he he fell for it for whatever reason it's amazing to me I had I've had a bad reputation in C games all these years I don't think I've ever had a losing year in cash games um and that surprises me and it's not until the younger generation that thinks I suck play with me in a cash game that all of a sudden their eyes are opened because they've watched the old stuff on television they've heard all the rumors and when they sit down with me I always kind of smile because I'm like all right I know this guy thinks I suck and I'm G to just destroy him and he's going to wake open his eyes but there's nothing like being with someone to see how good or bad they really are yeah definitely being being there in person is you know something that teaches you a lot I think about um how someone actually plays because you always you always hear all these things about this guy and that guy and and Lord knows if someone plays a bad hand somewhere everyone hears the story right but when you actually sit down and you watch someone the way that they work the way that they they approach it the way that they handle themselves at the table then you start to actually learn about like who that person you know the poker player that person really is exactly exactly it's it's it's and you know it's interesting too I'll tell you this is interesting you can you and I can play with the same player okay and you can play with him four times and I can play with him four times and I might come away saying he's amazing and you might come away saying he completely sucks and even if we're like-minded and think the same way he may just have had four bad sessions you happen to randomly witnessed and I happen to witness four great sessions for them you know and so it's it's interesting people are way too um they're way too quick to judge people in a very quick way you have to yeah if you want to judge somebody you watch them play 20 sessions six hours each and then you'll have an idea of whether they're good or bad but even then they could be off if it's like 20 days in a row yeah and I I think the epitome of that is what happens every year during the main event final table every year during the main event final table you'll see two or three questionable hands and it's just like open season on people on Twitter I'm sure you've seen this so brutal it's so brutal and by the way I'm glad you brought that up your man a I was very critical of and I think probably he's a really good player probably has good patience he's probably a nice guy is is all that true so I met a when he made the final table uh he messaged me and we agreed to meet up and and he would promote uping I'd help him get ready for the final table and I think a severe disadvantage and and and by the way also Advantage is what got him so far uh Dan is he's a cash player he plays like no tournaments he mainly plays deep stack Cash He mainly uh when he plays online L 100 big blind stuff he had never really done much short stack work at all you know really I mean frankly we were going through some ranges for preop stuff and and he was okay at some of it but all of a sudden he got rust into short stack situations for millions of dollars with just the poker World watching and and there were some I mean there were some disastrous pre-a plays no doubt about it the king the king nine I'm sure you especially loved I can only imagine how how excited you were when you saw the king nine but but at the same time like you know when I'm trying to like help him in those spots there's only so much you can do with like a two-day period between you know when when you make the fal table when you and when when you're supposed to play it so really you know you go through a lot of like the Baseline strategy stuff a lot of like some some deviations but if if someone does not have that short stack knowledge oh my go they're gonna get torn apart torn apart on Twitter or wherever during the main event it's true you know and veil was the same way and I think Veil is a really nice guy and uh I I think that you know the problem is this you know I mean people then like oh you didn't do this part right well they forget that that player did everything else right for days and days and days to make it down there so you know I mean I came out and said the truth on The Telecast because I'm not afraid I'm going to talk about the truth and uh but then sometimes I and you know Veil came up to me and said hey Phil I don't have anything you said you spoke your truth and that's cool and we're cool but I hope that a and I can shake hands and he's not mad at me because I tore into him a little bit there oh dude Dan is a super laidback guy honestly one of the things that I thought was really cool when I met Dan you know when when you especially at the higher Stakes level in poker you meet so many just goddamn weirdos just people that that you you know what I'm saying like like if it wasn't for poker there's no shot we would be in this room right now together like no chance but then I got to hang out with Dan and he's just a really laid-back nice normal genuine dude you know he actually um when I when we first put out I did a heads up course on upswing in February and when we first launched it he was one of the first guys in the and I actually gave him a call because I was calling everyone that that purchased the product on the first day and uh yeah let him a voicemail or whatever we didn't get the chat but he's been like part of upswing and watching all the YouTube vids and whatever for a long time so he already knew all like the inside jokes and like he was just a really cool laid-back guy and and he was he was a part of it you know like he he wanted to represent uping because he said he learned so much from it that he wanted to do it I was like dude if you're going to promote uping at the final table I'm going to be there coaching you I'm not just going to give you a patch and just be like all right man good luck like I'm gonna be there by the way I mentioned your name three or four times during The Telecast so thanks Phil thank you one day one day maybe I can get that spot but really tough to get in there when it's Cara Scott you and Daniel NE Grand like there's not really much of a well I mean you know you just never know how long people stay in these in these roles I mean I think the problem is this you have the most you have 10 th000 poker players everybody wants to do the ESPN stuff and so then you have to be you're compared against the best of the best right so you know and and it's possible you're better than both Daniel and I at it you know and and but Daniel and I are pretty darn good and we had such a good rapport between us it looks like we might have it for another couple of years at least um I think we did he did a really good job of making fun of me and I did a really good job of putting up with him yeah honestly you guys are great and I I didn't I don't I didn't in any way deserve that spot I'm not trying to imply that I I mean like this is the first summer I even got to be on ESPN uh I'll admit like the very the first time where they're like all right we're going live and they're counting you down I'm like holy [ __ ] we're going on ESPN right now you know and I was like a little bit like taking a bat because it's just such an experience and there was one there were one or two times where like you know I made a mistake or whatever on like you know National TV I remember there was one real really good moment where um I was talking and I I forgot what I was talking about or who I was talking about but I was talking and uh you know the producer in my ear and he's like he's like Doug lay out Doug lay out Doug lay out and he's just like yelling in my ear and I'm like I don't know what layout means I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing Doug shut the [ __ ] up I was like okay I know what that means they have never once told me to shut up in the mic that's fcking weird but you're but you're Phil helm Youth Man like we get out there and it's like okay we're not supposed to really promote anything sometimes they say 30 seconds left and then you know all right then you know you have to leave Cara 10 or 11 seconds to take it off the air but yeah I I love I love by the way like your ability to like work in promoting the people that you know either sponsor you or like you're part of is amazing it's it's honestly like when Ben lamb when Ben Lamb made the final table and you were like he plays for Millions at Arya hotel and cin the guy is pouring some Mescal right now this mecal let me just say this Doug you have you know me I have to promote promotee promote I got I'm on I'm on a lot of advisory boards and have you know pieces of some of these companies but I'll tell you kimosabi Mescal I love because I mean South by Southwest we the official Spirit of and that's pretty cool um and uh and next year I'm going to give a speech at South by Southwest called positivity if anybody wants to vote for me to give that speech but I think I'm already going to do it so I'm really looking forward to that and hopefully my book positivity is out by then this is the one where I think I can help tens of millions of people and I'm really excited about sharing things that I've been able to do to be successful well cheers man I don't I don't have any as well have any as well but yeah if you want if you want me to like you know write like a any part of anything or give you a quote or whatever like I'd be more than happy to be part of that too thanks Doug but anyway what you were saying about Arya during the during the main and you're like he plays for Millions at Arya hotel and casino I was like damn that was aggro like you just like you just like didn't give a [ __ ] you just you just went for it man they they don't pay us a lot of money to the commentary I don't know what you got but I didn't receive much money I'm not even sure I got paid the last four years it was such a small amount this year I think I finally saw contract my agent sent me a contract to to sign online you know or whatever and I looked I'm finally getting it looks well at least it's something you know what I mean but you don't get paid a lot for that and so I'm G to be a little bit more aggressive and they don't care I mean because it's a fact he plays at wara but I mean what I really want him to do my first book play poker like the pros became a New York Times bestseller because of ESPN some guy cash for 21,000 held the book up and hit the New York Times best seller list for the next five weeks and now I've sold like a million copies of that book it's amazing so I really wanted to get you know poker brat up there and and they got it on ESPN to for me and a kind of a cool plug where they cut back to me reading the book you know but not on ESPN and you can only do so much but yeah I think it's important to you know it's important for for the poker for the poker world to have sponsorships it's good for all of us yeah that's something that I think a lot of players don't really realize the more corporate money and and more companies they get involved in in poker okay yeah I mean like I get not wanting just non-stop advertisements I understand that and it doesn't have to be like that but at the same time by having that money be part of Poker it's more likely to create shows it's more likely to um you know get ESPN time it's more likely to make prize pools better for players in some instances you know we don't see much of that nowadays but you know those things have definitely happened in the past so it can only be a good thing for larger companies to get involved the problem is in the gambling space I think a lot of companies you know they don't really want to be involved with gambling yeah it's it's starting to change which is good it changed for a while there we had some really nice sponsorships now we have Amazon coins and I think Cary cats and poker go has been amazing that's the other one that Daniel and I both hit a couple of times poker go when we were live on ESPN you can watch it all on poker go you know because that just huge for our industry people don't understand you there might be there might be only six or seven of us that are kind of more intimately involved with pokergo but this is great for everybody we're not going to have live poker without poker go and Cary cats and so he brought in some big sponsors and poker go I think it's important for every single poker player I I wrote my mom and dad a check you know my mom was complaining about spending $70 on some like inhaler I said Mom here look I'm GNA write you a check for $230 I want you to buy two inhalers and poker go for a year you know make sure you use my code Phil and so but I think that's great you know we have the poker Masters coming that's going to be amazing you have ESPN quality poker a four 50k buyin and 100K buyin we have poker after dark we have all these great shows coming so you know I think I think that that is really good for our industry and if pokergo goes I mean I was around Doug in like 01 when The Bicycle Club Main Event my beloved important first trophy had like 35 players and I was just like oh my God poker is dying what's going on and then in 02 I was there and all of a sudden the World Poker Tour was there there were four television trucks Ben Affleck who was going out with JLo the biggest celebrity in the world was there Sports Illustrated WPD is like Sports Illustrated needs five minutes your time I said no and I thought all right don't be an idiot I went back and I said well actually they can have five minutes I think you want to give them five minutes on the main event so it just went from like this nothing and and really going the other direction to boom and I just remember how headyy that was and just like I was flipping out I had to leave I walked around for 15 minutes thinking what the hell just happened 35 players to like four 500 players wow yeah well the Poke the poker boom was awesome but was poker go you know I I wrote up something at the start because I remember when they first announced it uh and a lot of people were really angry and I said look you guys definitely have some things to be to be upset about um but it is important to also recognize that the service that the World Series was doing in past year where they just streamed everything for free um that was that was very fortunate that that was free you know and I know it sucks when you go from from something being free uh to to having to pay for it like no one likes that but that doesn't necessarily mean that the the product is bad now I will also say that there there are a lot of people that really hate poker go in the community you know they they're taging it on the forums on Reddit on two plus two I've seen a lot of it really and they do they they have some like somewhat valid gripes you know I think at first when you had to call into cancel that was ridiculous that was ridiculous I'm really glad that they changed that um and then some of the events like this is probably something that I think you would agree with a lot of people that are really into poker they felt kind of upset they didn't get to see the 50k Final Table you know the PLAYERS Championship to a lot of people wasn't important now that's that's legitimate I think because I think that would have been a really fun one but I think this is what I know I talked to TY Stewart TY Stewart told me that they spent X dollar doing all the final tables for the World Series of Poker then he told me they so they spent a number called X then he told me that they spent X every single day doing poker go so the expenses were actually 30 times higher we did super high quality there's a huge difference between what they did last year with a couple of guys in a booth watching to now with all the camera angles all the professionals working it I mean one was just kind of like there's a huge difference in quality number one and uh and I think that that's important to point out and then and then number two no one else is going to bring people live poker at at that Rich quality you know I think and so I think you know I mean I I bought in I mean I can't I'm playing the poker Masters you know I'm gonna play some poker after darks because I just think it's part fun to be a part of that you know well I would like to know I'm hoping to make it on some episodes I talked with Mor I'm hoping they can it can it can work out but uh yeah no no don't get me wrong like I I do think pokero is a is a good product especially now that they've worked out some of the streaming problems they had out of the gate and stuff um I do think people overall are being a little bit too unrealistic about it you know it's like $10 a month for extremely good poker content that's that's reasonable you know I just think when you when you go from free to $10 you're always gonna just face like the resistance getting there absolutely there's and and you're gonna face a lot of resistance I agree but 10 bucks a month so I mean Mor's been funny he's been carrying around he carried around like $110 bills in his pocket and every once every time someone wh you just hand him a 10 here you go here you go I actually I got a chance to have breakfast with my um a little like a few days ago a and mor is just such a great guy if you guys don't know who myy es es kandani is he's like the main producer for for high six poker content he produced High six poker right Poker After Dark World Series of Poker he's done the last seven years um high stakes poker um there's like seven shows that he's done um and they spent $700,000 on the whole card on building a table with whole card cameras people don't know this this was in like 1995 and you know it didn't really hit till later and they set it up for seven card stud because he's an old stud player and you know and so and so I mean his contributions to Poker have been amazing I think I I think he's going to get a lot of my votes for the poker Hall of Fame he's also as you probably noticed one of the smartest guys I know like I mean I'm just like I like I've hung out with a bunch of times it wasn't until we really got deep intellectually and I was like holy [ __ ] I mean the guy's just smart so here's a guy that made a lot of money playing poker primarily seven card stud for 20 years uh was able to buy vacation houses and a nice house in Vegas and then just stepped into producer and the most impressive thing about him is that somehow he keeps all these egos in check because no other producer gets along with every other poker player he's not afraid to tell Mike Matel yeah Mike I know you think you're the biggest and most important person in the poker world but you're not you know maybe you're number 10 you know maybe it's five I don't know but you're not number one and you're not going to play this week and so you know I mean he but he handled all the egos of all the players who all think they're the most important and I think he's done a good job on the other hand he put me on more poker after darks than anybody else even though it was a Full Tilt Poker show so maybe I'm biased all right so I'm glad you bring up Full Tilt we got we got another subject here to talk about so a lot of people asked me about ultimate bet and I I think there's actually been some good news recently right there was actually going there were going to be payments of some kind made um from the ultimate bet fund but could you possibly talk about like what the ending of ultimate bet was like kind of what happened with the company like just your general thoughts on it I have a great 5,000 word chapter right here in poker brat about ultimate bet it's a great chapter and you know I talk about how it started what happened how it went public in London I mean this company went public in London for $380 million in the London Stock Exchange what happened how when you know when kind of when when online poker was suddenly not legal you know it's it's interesting for me to hear people uh you know people that have come to me and they haven't been as aggressive but people have come to me and said what about this what about that and I don't think they understand I mean no one was hurt more financially than I was by ultimate but on the other hand I made $10 million so that was great but you know we were be how can that be hurt financially then well okay we were one day away in ' 07 we were being sold for two we were being sold for 700 million to Party Poker we needed one day in Congress to pass and they were out of session they added the uiga as a port Rider you know that was that was on the port Security Act which of course was going to fly through and so I was in line to get about $28 million and instead it just went down to nothing now fast forward to a few years later 2011 Black Friday I was talking to full til I'd left ultimate bet in November 6 months earlier and we were slow playing Full Tilt just trying to get their numbers up Full Tilt guys they wanted me and I wanted to be a part of what they were doing I thought they were they were kind of the hottest site at the time and they were gonna give me around a $30 million contract okay with I was hoping to get a $2 million signing bonus I think I would have done it and I would have been locked in financially for life with a point where they were Distributing what 120,000 a month would have been amazing so I figured it was a $30 million deal and I just come back I was going to sign with them next week and then what happened Black Friday I just come back from a USO tour so yeah I got hurt kind of twice there uh by the the laws changing um I do think it was fortunate for me um that you know well let's talk about two other things the first is people say why did you stay at ultimate bet well of course if I would have left they would have said why would you why did you leave and I watched joyle Brunson go through this he was with the site the site went out of business and people were hounding him for their money for years and I said no I'm not going to do this [ __ ] if I leave you be it's probably going to go out of business that was their biggest I maybe my ego's too big but I thought it might go out of business you know I mean I was the face of that site I said why don't I stay instead I initiated the investigation personally you know and so we found out that it was whatever 20 $25 million I talk about the amounts in the book 20 $25 million of money had the players had been cheated out of and so those players were paid back and I stayed through that process and then when I left the site in November I felt really good I I started with a site that I built up from nothing and and yet I got slandered and it wasn't until you know it wasn't until the Travis makart tapes came out in 2013 where you can hear them talk about how I didn't know anything about it that was a great day for me and another great day I'd already written this book in the chapter when a couple of months ago they announced that they were going to refund all of the ultimate bet players money and all of the absolute uh poker players money in 100% And I was just so pleased I was like oh my God this is great now I'd left the site six months before then um so no one really held me accountable for that but still it's great to see that that's the case I actually did not know that you left before Black Friday I didn't realize the timeline was like that yeah yeah no I mean that's why that's why I didn't get slandered as much in fact then there were articles about what a genius I was oh Phil knew Phil's Phil's like talking to all the Senators he knew that Black Friday was coming yeah right come on dude white magic yeah yeah I guess I have a lot of a lot more power with the US government than people think okay go I mean that that makes sense then actually that I think it's a bit of a better spin on it um there were always some like kind of there were a few questionable moments at UB um with at least some of the the super using stuff um which wasn't which was also a problem and then also the um there was a pot you played where you at the end of the hand had the worse hand than your opponent and you got shipped the pot do you remember what I'm talking about oh I know this exactly so you know this is I'm glad that I can talk about this this one pissed me off more than anything that ever came out of UB so anybody that grew up playing on online poker pots were Mis awarded all the time it was not a big deal you caught it you sent it in this hand I was the pot was messed up and they do the research and they'd refund you the money and they'd allow the player that won the pot to keep the money they never took it away everybody knew this this happened for years maybe you weren't around early in online poker but there were a lot of mistakes made it was standard so now I'm playing somebody heads up right they log off of their so now they did an investigation this guy logged off of the computer he logged off off of off of the table before he could get paid the pot 100% his [ __ ] fault and they emailed me and they said Phil this guy did this and I said well rather than make him look bad rather than make this guy look bad let's just say let's just say that you know that it was just a a glitch or whatever because that's what had happened in the past and UB was like now we shouldn't do that our software's too good we don't want to take a hit you know our ego's too good and I said and so that was my mistake I should have just let him go ahead and say that the guy logged out he logged out before and so this thing became a big issue and I'm like what the [ __ ] is going on here I'm getting attacked for a pot being Mis rewarded which has happened literally three million times throughout the the history ofer has it happened three million because I can't ever recall even happening once other than the story how about this how about this how about you and I bet what the standards look like because I was there back in the day to start what would happen is pots are Mis rewarded all the time sites would go offline in the middle of tournaments I mean we had a disruption two or three times a day at ultimate bet for nine months we had tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of emails coming in I got cut off in the middle of this tournament I got cut off was that standard that still happens by the way the getting cut off in a tournament that that's just true I mean everyone that that happen that's happened this year you know like that that's still a thing but stupid I should have just like the story would have just gone away if we just said the guy logged out I mean you know but the thing is like why would the money go to the wrong place if you log out well I mean that's I don't know I mean I'm not a tech guy I know I know you're not a tech guy I'm just asking I have no idea I mean whatever I mean I I mean listen Doug let me ask you this I'm playing a guy heads up with 400 people watching okay I mean you do you think that do you think that anything is going to be going on I mean there's there's like 400 people watching us play I mean come on like I mean it's just you what you know Phil you know what it honestly seems like to me and and I I could just be I mean I'm just like this is my opinion clearly but it seems like somebody at UB tried to without you knowing make it so you would win some pots that you weren't supposed to win it seems like that Jesus I mean you're so far off they did an investigation like I mean you know that means they spent they they spent like a lot of time looking exactly what happened the guy had logged off now when you log when you leave the table I is the I don't know how I mean if you leave the table right before the end of the hand I mean anyway whatever it's that's what happened and I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure do you like this is this is this this this aggravates me your lack of understanding this not you personally but just in general these sites when they went public they were going to be worth we all knew this in 2005 or maybe it was 2004 Party Poker went public for 8 billion dollars the last thing you want when you have a site like that and you know it's worth a billion dollars the last thing you want is any implication of cheating I mean you just have to be [ __ ] stupid when you you know you're trying to win like a couple thousand dollars over here when like you know I mean so so I mean I feel like that's you know I feel like that theory is not not a very good one I gotta I mean no matter what I think I think you were clearly not involved and I mean why would you ever be like I'm these people are watching me play are watching me play are gonna see the hands just ship me money that's not I that would just be stupid I I don't think anyone here's accusing you at all um no I'm not accused but I just but I do want people to understand that it was really not in any site's best interest to even consider something like that you know I gotta okay all right so a few more questions here uh and then we we can call it a day uh who if you had to pick your top five by the way that hand that hand still GRS me to this day because they put it in my Wikipedia as if to suggest I was involved in cheating so so some [ __ ] out there there's some [ __ ] out there who who is persecuting an innocent man me and putting it make Shing it shows up on a Wikipedia whenever there's changes to the Wikipedia I haven't looked at my Wikipedia in four years I don't care but but I would tell you the people out there that persecuted innocent people that is really really a bad way to live your life and there are a lot of people out there that didn't understand that said negative things and I forgive them all because it's in my best interest forgiveness is a big thing for me but that one pissed me off I'm getting getting persecuted over that it was ridiculous in my opinion but anyway that that is totally ridiculous but Phil you also know how it is man like if if enough people if enough people hear you talk or enough people know who you are then some of them aren't going to like you I I I know you say you have zero enemies but there are going to be people who decide for whatever reason that they don't like you and then they're gon to try and do stuff like that well there's a big difference in life between not liking someone and like persecution and the persecution hasn't happened to me as much as it's happened to some of the other guys you know like I like Greg Pearson has been persecuted and he just went through a level five investigation by the uh by the Nevada Gaming Control Board which is a much more intense investigation than the FBI or the CIA does they come to your house they take your computers your laptops he was completely cleared and this is a guy that had people calling other companies he worked with and telling him he was a cheater and a scumbag you know why because because they felt like somehow they they sucked at poker and lost ,000 and felt like it was his fault I mean I this whole thing anyway I want to move on from this this yeah know we we can move on totally cool thank you for answering that by the way um I don't mind I will answer all the questions but I can't also help a little bit of a emotion uh dude totally cool man totally cool uh thanks for your honesty with it by the way all right so let's move on talk about some other subjects here um if you had to pick five the top five No Limit holding players under the age of 40 who are your picks well you've earned earned your way on that list because of your results let's see who else I think there's probably a guy you don't like as much Mercier are you guys okay now we're we're okay I we okay so so not to get too far off topic here but like we never really really had that much beef there was just like one thing that went down I know it doesn't seem like I'm being honest when I'm actually wearing a bad rag shirt but um we just had like one thing that went down and and and I mean I guess I can only say for my half I don't I don't really know Mercier at all but I don't really think of it as much of a beef at all really I think it's just kind of funny but I mean so I think I think of him as being one uh there's uh there's oh man there's there's I mean obviously Fedor has had amazing has amazing results and does a lot right he does get us he does get himself in some jams I mean he's won a lot of pots when he has King seven of diamonds and they have Jacks I mean I've seen that a lot like espe ese when he won the 111k but but whether he's lucky or not it's another issue you have to give him one of those spots um man who's this guy uh German guy who's won like three hold them bracelets there's only a few people that have won three bracelets and hold them how many have you won in Holdem three all right so guess what there's about four people on the planet that have won three and that's it uh you know that wait really yeah look that three hold them tre's a I've won 12 you happen to be talking to the wrong guy but I love how you set me up for that Phil like three is unbelievable it can't be done great job by the way unbelie oh by the way but I think seriously I think I think if you look it up you'll be shocked how many people have won bracelets how many holding bracelets is the record one take me out of the equation it's so much fewer than you think um so there's the fields are huge it's just it's not you know I mean the thing about Holdem is like I have a lot I have some seconds and thirds in hold them you can play you can be be 10 times as good as your opponents when you get down to heads up and you know I mean the blinds are pretty big by then right yeah definitely I don't know I might have five seconds in holding tournaments or four or something I don't remember but but um uh so yeah uh so anyway I don't know there's there's there I would have three or if I had another few minutes to think I have a couple guys that I would put up there too D do you think anyone coming up really Embraces the live reads like is there someone that's like a Phil helmuth approved player kind of coming up right now I think I think F I think Fedor I think feder has some I think feder he has some good live reads I mean he stares at you for 30 seconds for a reason right and I think I I have to give him credit for having some really good live reads he plays very similarly to the the way that I play uh three bets I mean he tries to three bet when he has like a suited hand like King dece of Diamonds if he's going to make his move and and I think you believe in that a little bit more too whereas I'll just three betat with nine3 offsuit I don't I don't care what my cards are I care what my opponent's cards are and so that's maybe the difference there okay Byron cman has some pretty good reads there's two or three other guys I think of that have really good reads uh in your generation there's more than that of course Dan Smith has good timing I mean he's a fantastic player for sure um and he may be making good reads I mean I suspect he is yeah he's been around for a long time doing well for a long time uh definitely a great poker player there some guys I'm missing I don't be offended if I'm missing you I just you kind of put me on the spot quickly here oh yeah no no sweat at all let's talk about this because we talked a bit about it early earlier on in this podcast about tank and I think we're on the exact same page you know tanking is bad what do you think about the solution that's kind of you know been the current way of dealing with it which is adding a shot clock what are your thoughts on the shot clock I wish we didn't need one because here's the problem when I play in tournaments with shot clocks people feel comfortable waiting a long time to act and I just think the poker world has to get it through its thick head that if we want televised poker if we want audiences watching us we have to act faster it's just a fact it's good for everyone in the poker world to play faster everyone and so when someone raises and someone re raises and you have Jack five offit and you know that there's less than one% a chance you're going to put in some sick five bet in that spot or four bet excuse me you know you have to just fold it like I mean like what are you doing like I see I see people wasting time in these spots and so if we have a shot clock i' I just like to see people play a little bit faster and Daniel and I shamed a lot of people that were playing too slow and I think that it's it's helped and I think I think a lot of guys I think you've done the same where we're just we're speaking out against just tanking every hand it's ridiculous and I just I'm not even sure sometimes that it adds like everybody says oh they might get an extra 1% well there's also the counter theory that your first decision is always the correct one think long think wrong you know and so it could be hurting 1% which is really unbelievable now you're taking all this time and you're hurting yourself and you're hurting the poker World well there's sometimes we're we're stalling okay so let's just talk about tournaments because in cash games if you're stalling that's just ridiculous I think I think we can we can both agree on that for sure in tournaments it's kind of tough because every moment you don't lose lose the tournament right other people might so if you're if it gets to you and you just take a while with whatever you are actually making money that's something that I think we all have to realize like you make money by taking longer because the value of your chips increases so the problem you won't be you won't be invited to any of these private events that we're probably gonna have soon I'll tell you that but I I'm not sure how much money they're making now it's different to me Doug if you're talking about there's 10 left you know in the one drop or 11 or 12 left in the one drop and someone wants to stall I can't even though I didn't stall very much myself in that spot I was at least taking an extra 10 seconds longer than I might have you know and if somebody else was stalling I I didn't say anything in those spots because really there should be handby hand stuff should kick in quicker and we should get rid of that totally agree with you I mean I'm not afraid to admit this at all when we were on the bubble uh the stone bubble in the one drop I was like a middle stack or a little bit below average think and you know this is it's a it's a good chunk of money and and and by taking a little bit longer I'm giving myself a better chance to win that and I also know my opponents at what at whatever other tables are doing that as well so it becomes kind of this this battle where do I give up my EV to the people that are willing to do it uh or do I do it as well and generally speaking I just do it like a bit I I try to be kind of reasonable about it you know I I maybe it take like five or 10 seconds or just something to where because like if I if I play immediately and other people don't you're you are hurting yourself that's that's I get I get it I agree with what you're saying 100% And so what we need to do is we need to find a way to solve that so maybe when they we're three off the bubble we play hand for hand that way everybody can play quickly it's better television you know and we're not hurting ourselves so there are some solutions they haven't implemented that I think are better I agree with that the problem with the shock loock too is I if you're like okay you only get 30 seconds right well that can kind of backfire and I saw this in the super high roller Bowl this year where people go oh I get 30 seconds I'm gonna use 30 seconds every single time like for example and I I love this guy he's an amazing guy Kristoff Vogal sang super dreamy German dude great poker player great poker mind but the thing is he took like down to the 27 second mark on every decision you know flop checks through way on Kristoff 30 second tank check checks through River on Kristoff 30 second tank Che you know and and at that point you start to wonder are people taking the full 30 now because it's presented to them where they wouldn't have otherwise well you completely ignored what I said earlier Doug but I I said exactly that and I so actually you and I are perfectly aligned on this that's what I don't like when you finally do play in one and they think they have to take the whole 27 seconds send it back backfires and that's really bad for us I agree I'd like to see it I just don't I don't think they can do it but I'd like to see people like me that fold in two seconds should be rewarded when I actually need a minute and a half once every hour or two hours or whatever it is it's not that often I should have a minute and a half and these guys that take 30 seconds every [ __ ] hand you know should be somehow punished I mean there're just we have to have things that level the playing field but to me personally I don't think they have I don't care actually I will tell you this if you're Daniel Neu or I and you have great reads we want you guys to study 30 seconds from a player point of view because we can we're going to figure stuff out it's more time to study you so it actually is worse for you when you have great players at your table but but we still want it to be faster just for poker you know yeah I I I totally I totally agree with that yeah we're on the same place or coming from the same place here and I have I have watched many many hours of your play because I do a show here on the channel called poker hands I haven't done it in a couple months where I analyze well-known famous hands so I've seen you play many many hands now yeah I see that picture behind you over there on the right right here there we are man fired up I look miserable you know what Phil this is a little preview for August 22nd it's GNA I don't think so I don't think so we're gonna have a lot of time you're gonna have have to like I don't think you're G to be wearing sunglasses and a freaking like covering your face have a nice little read on you I I'll I'll let you have a shot at the reads okay I I I want the white magic in play if if I'm gonna get owned I want it to be good TV I mean you know you know the way these things are when you have two great players playing I mean yes I have some advantages over you you have some mathematical edges over me yeah wipe that Dirt Off Your Shoulder I'm excited man it f it'll be fun yeah all right so last couple of questions here and then and then let's call it call it a podcast um if you had not this is this is one that was asked by several different people if you had not ended up in poker what would you have done with your life man you know I have no idea but I would have hoped like I feel like I could be a promoter I feel like I could be an author maybe I would have been forced to write books at an earlier age maybe I'd have like five or six New York Times bestselling books that would be amazing um but I feel like I'm a personality and a promoter so I don't know it's hard to imagine that I just would have been an accountant you know don't see you being an accountant yeah and I'm not nothing wrong with being an account that's what I was studying um but I don't see myself just doing that I think I would have branched off to some other stuff I really think that I I hope that this is the case I believe that anybody who's great in poker can make a ton of money outside of Poker that's what I believe because you really have to be able to put be put together well I agree with that and who would you say are your biggest influences from outside of [Music] Poker um put on the spot again I kind of like I mean you know I mean like the Friendship group I've been hang shth poap has had a huge influence on me he's my best friend Bill Lee um has has been an amazing is an amazing guy I write about these guys in my book some of the group I hang out with are just some of the smartest people in the world they've made billions of dollars um you know I I was fortunate enough to hang out with Elon Musk and uh you know and I've been to parties he's thrown a couple different parties I've been to launches he's had and then I'm in the back room there's like eight of us and uh like that guy is amazing because he's changing the world and so somebody like that you have to look up to a little bit um you know I just like I said I just signed a poker brat for him so that felt pretty good nice nice man well congratulations and everything you've done so far I I hope that the books sell like hot cakes I need to get myself a copy ASAP you gave me one I left it for two minutes in Starbucks like oh my God and I get back and the book was gone they just they they just swiped it out from under me anyway I need to get myself a copy and check it out somebody's walking around with a with a copy of my book autographed to you I know somebody has that that copy exists I mean the book is not that expensive I think it's $17 at Amazon I mean come on give Doug his book back you know I'll tell you what Phil we'll put a link to the book right here in the description of the video so people can know where to find it and uh again thank you for thank you for coming on the Pod man it's been fun you and I always have a great we have great energy back and forth so I love it it's going to be a great battle too I look forward to we're gonna have fun I'm looking forward to it man and to everyone that tuned in today uh that's going to conclude the podcast with Phil helmuth we're gonna have another one tomorrow 3M Pacific time with jungle we're going into the other side of the tournament now we're GNA talk about that upcoming match between him and Frank cassella uh hopefully we can talk a little bit about what happened with the dirt challenge asking what he's been up to I kind of been under the radar so make sure you guys stop by tomorrow and stay tuned for more content here again Phil thank you man I'll see you later made a Doug

Channel: Doug Polk Poker

Views: 493,503

Keywords: Poker, #hangoutsonair, Hangouts On Air, #hoa, 2017 poker, poker 2017, vlog, vlogger, poker life, daniel negreanu, dnegreanu, fedor holz, pokerstars, poker stars, high stakes poker, tv poker, tom dwan, wsop, world series of poker, high roller, nosebleeds, live, stream, Negreanu, poker, pocket kings, pocket aces, rio, las vegas, texas holdem, cash game, one drop, wsop vlog, negreanu vlog, breaking news, poker news, phil ivey, main event, final table

Id: B6y9W9BQd2Y

Length: 110min 35sec (6635 seconds)

Published: Wed Aug 09 2017