Disappearance of Madeleine McCann | True Geordie Podcast #112

everyone's been asking us to do a documentary review after the last one we did on the Michael Jackson one on Netflix on the Madeleine McCann disappearance no human read that's on Netflix now this is I think it's fair to say the biggest sort of missing child case in the history of the world like in terms of money attention media interest everything it is the biggest part Jesus and Herod I'd say it's definitely up there it's a very sad story and what happened is absolutely tragic and what we're going to do is sort of cover the documentary cover the points made and also in the end try and say what we think might have happened you know because it is it's for me this is a lot harder than the Michael Jackson one a lot a lot of people say Oh where's the evidence for the Michael Jackson one and you know obviously there isn't a smoking gun no or a pair of pants with Michael Jackson semen on because it happened 20 years ago and if you watch a documentary yes and to get rid of all their pants but there's a lot of people who came out and accused Michael Jackson there's a lot of him going if he loved me share my bed there's a lot of evidence in my opinion in that sense whereas with this one it's a lot more vague because simply a child went missing in the night and she was never seen again and there wasn't any prior evidence of the parents being necessarily guilty of anything wrong and also there was not nobody caught or suspected of doing it really not with any serious evidence exactly so this is a lot harder in terms of us kneeling down what we think happened and I don't think anyone particularly watched the last podcast thinking what I want to hear I'm now gonna completely change my life based on what they've said but I do think it's interesting just to explore it because actually one thing that's similar about both these documentaries is exploring the nature of information in the 20th century and then the 21st century and how we are in a time now where facts and truth and surety of things is probably at one of its lowest ever in history yeah well it trial by [ __ ] public opinion is becoming more common isn't it which is a big theme in the documentary so they obviously episode one lays it all out alright so if people don't know obviously there will be probably someone who doesn't what happened was a family went on holiday a delusion porch Portugal they took their three kids and every night they would go for dinner and they would leave the kids for about four or five hours in the hotel room apparently they were check on them and there's a lot of discrepancies over how often they check on them but they would check on them and at some point the daughter who was three at the time Madeleine went missing and yeah on the night of the dad had checked on the daughter he had confirmed that she was still in the hotel room and in bed at the time he went back another person and apparently took a head in the door and so well actually no so he didn't stick his head in the door that was he that's the interesting side of it his side of the story so it was one of the friends of the eight I think we're in the Gruber went away I think when the other dads went back to the room saw the door was slightly open heard movement in the room and assumes just a child turning over they'll be fine close the door to walk back out so he didn't Lee he didn't want to wake them up I'm assuming so it like that he didn't have visual on visual confirmation so later in the night the mother goes to check the mother sees that the twins are still there who were the youngest ones a boy and a girl I think but the daughter is gone she comes back to the party dinner party screaming she's been taken she's been taken now for me that was a little bit of a red flag for me that was odd how me because I know I grew up on in a state where kids would just go missing in terms of they'd wander off from their parents in terms that they'd be playing how the the parents would come out after a few hours I mean even young young kids you know I mean and especially at three years old kids are inquisitive so if they are can somehow reach the door handle and get out which apparently the patio door was unlocked or whatever and they could somehow find a way of getting out they would wander off and go and find another kid to play with wander off and go and try and look for their parents of me we get lost there's a lot of possibilities in that scenario the bottom that the first thing that would come to my mind if I was in her shoes she's gone where is she I wouldn't instantly go taken and not coming back sort of thing that would be the first thing I guess the others the opposite arguments that would be it's nighttime kids are scared of nighttime because I think all humans are in some way scared of the dark because it's gone three-year-olds aren't assumed I don't think three are also necessary to see him but I think it's important for us to play devil's advocate as we can on this but three-year-olds are not the same no but they you know kids have can be scared of a knight or whatever then there's also the fact that the window was open allegedly we'd know was open and the shutters were up in the window and that was something that she said was different because obviously at nighttime you close I don't know I just I just found it implausible it was like for her to nail it straight away this child is taken she's not lost she's not wandered off there is no way we're going to get her back right it it was interesting that she knit knit called it so quickly now don't get me wrong I don't think that that proves anything but I just thought it was worth me to metal no and the reason why is because another documentary I watched called the staircase which we've talked about before there's a clip of that on TG to the other channel he rung the police when he found her at the bottom of the stairs and instantly he laid out the story from day one and there was a woman who deconstructed his first police call on YouTube and she said because of the way he presented the story oh and laid out and then stuck to that story from day from the second he called it him to the very end there was holes in what he was saying and there was flaws in and I I thought back straightaway to him going she's fallen she's at the bottom of the stairs she's fallen because there wasn't a guarantee that she'd fallen there wasn't she could have been beaten up anything could have happened but he set his story out straight away and muddled and Mekons mother equally set her story out straight away and stalked her at the entire time I always believed that the staircase killer for me he did murderer so that just give me a bit of a oh yeah well this reminds me of that no it doesn't mean that this is the same but I do think it's important to say she called it from the get-go that this was what it was yeah although you can say the opposite of that which is um she she might have just been variant and mother's intuition I could have been that yeah as a parent as well if if you haven't done something and your child's gone sometimes your mind will skip to the worst thing that could have happened and the worst thing that could happen is be she's been taken now the first problem with what had happened for a lot of people yeah was what the [ __ ] are two parents on holiday doing leaving three young children under the age of three alone with a patio door and locked which it was roadside hotel was very accessible why are you leaving them alone for multiple hours every single night it's just careless and really negligent on their part so there was do you wanna do you honestly think that do you think there are other parents out there that wouldn't leave children in a room if they if they especially considering the proximity that they were in allegedly with him because that's also been raised as a question yeah I don't think it's acceptable no I don't interesting I don't know see I think there's probably an age where you get to where you could leave teenagers in a room I think what you're like I don't know yeah I mean obviously teenagers but when you get into about tenure and Riaan under three and under is definitely so there's the thing about being on holiday plenty of times where you see parents who've got strollers with the kids in there asleep you can still have dinner you can still do what you want to do like to me it's extremely lazy parenting just being like we need our a long time like you know that the safety of your kids has got to be the first priority always not only that but in the resort there was a babysitting service and these people were hardly wanting for it's not a budget holiday these people know they're very not another thing that this is not one of the main reasons people think that they've been given a lot of leniency and a lot of a ten from the media's both doctors middle dr. Klass got money and can certainly afford to have someone look after their kids in my team so it was just it just stunk as a parent as a parenting levels it was Pula so isn't that the case for a lot of people though when they go away or when they're in unusual situations things change a little bit and maybe within the safety of a holiday the romance of a holiday people think well what's what's the worst that could happen we're in a an allegedly safe country which is the first world or whatever you wanna call developed nation you know we're in a lovely resort kids aren't supposed to got taken on holiday yes of it yeah a book for me when you're away from home and in a place you know less well than your own home you you should be more heightened awareness not less so I take your point but I don't think that's an excuse enough so they raise the alarm yeah and the police come everyone's out searching instantly this is panic station straightaway because she said she's been taken one of the main problems was the crime scene or the where the band was taken was contaminated by so many people it was piss-poor from everyone involved including the parents the yeah I lead in Kate and Gerry well I if they are completely innocent aiyyo aiyyo I do forgive them of that because the panic that that would set in to parents I don't think you're thinking crime see and preserve you're not thinking you're thinking where the [ __ ] is my kid and you're worried I accept that from them I accept that I guess there are other things that you would or wouldn't do then in that situation where they did unusual things like allegedly close the shutters or move the shutters things like that you wouldn't put those back down you'd move those things windows moved you know I think things move that maybe you normally wouldn't move in that situation especially not if you're looking for a child if you're looking for a child you would leave the route that they went out open so it could come back the same way all those kind of things those are things which for me flagged those major a suspicious strange behavior everyone's out to check and eventually they decide you've got to talk to the media so they come up and give a statement to heighten away in ass get that get out there please bring her back if you have her ie I've got to be honest to me and there is no normal behavior there is no such thing as normal behavior when your child has been taken it's very hot analyze their behavior and say that is this but it did seem strange it did honestly it seemed he they are such cold people they are the coldest people I've ever seen in this scenario and I don't think that if they are innocent but that has helped them he's a surgeon she's the I mean their bedside manner can't be [ __ ] great no notoriously both in quite not cold professions but professions where you need to be and probably sue the person matter of fact some of these a little bit more resistant maybe but to me people who get in that kind of job they're that help people and I don't know if body body language wise but they come out the stairs and they come down and see it now she's got her head hanging down yeah and and and she isn't making any eye contact then and he has very prepared and and very like I don't know to me if your daughter is missing to read from a script and in such a surgical way that he did it didn't appeal of the emotions at all in it and and I don't know you have to appeal to the emotions do you think do you think someone who's cold enough to take a child do oh so things is gonna go I've upset those people that's terrible well I don't know what advice they were given yeah but in everything I've ever watched in regards to this it's about making the person who's taken the child see them as a real person for you and partly in the language he used he tried to do that he had seemed but I kept think my whole time I'm thinking all right judge this both ways if they're innocent why are they doing that if they're not innocent why are they doing that and with her head hanging down in in I felt like in shame I felt like she looked ashamed well I actually thought and and him sort of we've got to do this if you view it as they're guilty it that was to behavior that I was picking up of him keeping it together okay he puts his arm round and he's I've got to get this [ __ ] message out she hung her head in in shame in my ball if they're innocent you can view the behavior differently and think maybe they're just trying to get through this and they're not good speakers and they're just trying to get it out you could also be ashamed as a parent of the way that you've parented your kids I've left them alone and they've got missins another reason to be ashamed maybe maybe it just out of all of the appeals I've ever seen there was one appeal that was quite clinical which was the salm appeal where the dad came under scrutiny yeah I thought the dad had done it because he was very smart or AFAA yeah I'm so that proves that an innocent person who's appealing for his child can't be like that's not isolating so it isn't a one-off however it was just odd it was just an odd odd thing because to me if you're if you're missing your child you're almost screaming in agony and terror and the emotion is gushing out it's some there was such little emotion I was really surprised by that see I feel the other way where I feel like I understand why people want that but that's part of the problem for me in the media in the way that things are portrayed you can see it both ways so some people want it to be gushing out but some people would then go she's too hysterical she's to these people clearly did it they were gay so you could go either way with this information if they if she'd have been there sobbing you could say she was sobbing I've killed she was sobbing however they would have been portrayed or portrayed themselves could have been portrayed as wrong at some point well an image are jumping ahead you know in all of the the interviews and all of the statements and everything since that day mm-hmm I've never seen a single interview from these two people where I've seen a real show of emotion I've and I actually caught a one time I I feel like I caught a one time and I don't think once again this doesn't prove any real guilt no faith crying 100% I I seen a deer in some sort of thank-you to the Portuguese public yeah and I was like and she was making the crying noise I'm like no you're not you're not actually crying here and that little things like that they do disturb me when when we've got such confusion over what happened and it could have been them the little things I thought why would you do that why not that but needs me down that road that's interesting because I the whole conclusion that I was left with from watching the documentary was monkey-see monkey-do what do you mean by that well yeah break that down in two different ways I don't want to drop to the end of the no no I'm not but it's it's that's of a basis for watching it sets up a basis for how I'm gonna like a lens for hunger to look at everything okay these people in a human way are in uncharted territory as to how you act what you do what you say a because there's never been this kind of media scrutiny on that sort of thing in Britain or in Europe in that sense and they're also an uncharted territory emotionally and personally because they've never had this happen before and very few people have had this happen before so they don't it's very difficult to know how to act and people learn how to act you learn that when you go to a funeral you are sad in this way you know you're not sobbing but you're very solemn you learn that when you go to a birthday party you're supposed to be happy and these are all learned actions which are slightly informed by what you naturally would feel anyway the other way is I think that there's a there's a balance there I agree but I also think then the other let the other way is the way that we then interpret that from the way that we've been taught to interpret actions in life so for example if they've had an upbringing where both of them come from parents who are also very clinical they'll not naturally be emotion exactly she strikes me and I've you've probably met people like Jerry and and Kate and I feel like especially in Liverpool I've met people exactly like Kate people who you sort of go okay you have emotion but I don't quite know where or how to place it I've met a woman like you before I really didn't like her yeah I didn't like her but that and I think that that's part of the problem I think that what what is harmed in this whole situation is that they don't come across as likable and then and and they're not I don't think they're likable and I think that that has been one of the reasons why they look more guilty in many people's eyes they just don't sit and Jerry in particular comes across as a right dick it's really there's times where he I've seen him interviewed and he doesn't he's a controlling man and and I and I picked that up from him because when people try and ask him things you don't want to be asked or suggest things to him and this isn't even did you murder your daughter type questions this is just random questions yeah he likes to control the conversation and whatnot and so but speaking of Jerry you know in these scenarios the last person to officially say the child and confirm that they've seen the child percentage-wise they're usually the killer and I'm not I'm not saying that that means he's the killer at all I'm saying usually now what interested me was he was the last person to officially see the child but nobody else confirmed that the child was alive after that no one there's no proof that he's seen the child when he actually did see the child to my knowledge and I kept thinking to myself what if the baby had died I was and hours and hours before that and they just because there the time was there the time was they today and this is playing the if scenario for them to say to each other because there's a there's a there was things found like a syringe found and it is very common for parents to give their kids Kulp all in order to and as they court help them sleep yeah now if you're wanting peace and quiet and you're what in your four or five hour social time every single night when you're on holiday and you're a doctor and you think you know what you're doing you know there was a theory put forward that they would have potentially overdosed the child given them too much can I just check what is I don't because they don't actually say in the documentary what an overdose of Cal Poly would be I've gotten I've got no idea but this was a theory put forward and add regardless of how the child might have died regardless let's just say someone could have been in a fit of rage the baby could have been misbehaving someone gets hit someone bumps their head on the floor anything can happen but the time for them to get rid of this baby and then pretend that they'd seen the baby later on in the day and everything was fine the time was there yeah and the opportunity was there and and for Jerry to say he's seen her last proves nothing so yeah you we have to come at this from like a real what could have happened point of view I'm not saying that this is what happened but the opportunity was definitely [ __ ] there and the other side is and something that's mentioned in later episode the babies who were still had the twins slept through all of it that was one of the reasons why Carl Pohl was suggested because if something had occurred that was as traumatic as a baby being tick and a child of three being taken which would have you would think would have made noise at some point or something would have been yeah commotion would have happened now something that I think is really key to it I mean before don't get me wrong a person could have snuck in and taken them without the kids noticing but you do think it's more likely that it would have noticed something than not the other side and something's right so that would be very it's one thing I was struck with in the documentary which I understand because you can't go down every Avenue was there could be a cocktail of these things coming together where the parents had given them Cal pol the babies were fast asleep and therefore she couldn't scream or she couldn't do who's asleep another question sorry to take word on a different word but if you are as is put across as one of the theories a pedophile ring or a child snatcher yeah why would you leave the other two kids why would you only take a sir I guess the the conclusion will be sort of cargo I guess like you can't take carrying three kids is very high-risk one child low-risk I mean potentially yeah but just I don't know that that sort of [ __ ] the theory up a little bit for me because I think that myself if there was talk of men around the hotel and like in the days before looking at the hotel what whatever was said I mean there's literally no proof of this but it could have been the case and if you were scoping the place out and you had your eye I don't know it just seems like there's three young kids there and if that is what you do and you have a van waiting outside in all of this the way they were sort of describing it could have happened why leave the other two with all the other like yeah I don't know thinking from that position you think you know and you watch a bank robbery in a film you always think don't get too greedy and for someone who's in that line of work you'd imagine that is a very easy bank to rob and you go take one child and that's all they need yeah mitten maybe yes and we're trying to understand the logic of really so that is gonna be a difficult I just do think that that almost it's a minus on the credibility of the story and not a huge - a tiny one but but I just think if this is what you keep doing you knew that this was going to be then the opportunity was going to be there and you're a well-oiled machine and this is what you guys do you've got you're gonna Rob the entire Bank the next thing that massively came into question for me was police competence Oh terrible those guys being that helps the Macan saw you to think matter sure massively because I liked the the bald police guy the guy with just the glasses the guy released the book in the end I I quite I liked him as a he came across as a very you know likable character he doesn't come across as a great police officer no so that's the difference good for a plate you shouldn't you almost shouldn't like to only lock the time I thought this case or thought so yeah you almost shouldn't like a police officer because they are meant to be quite competent people they're meant to be there to challenge you they're meant to be there to be that figure they're not meant to be of your friend sort of speak absolutely not their job and what continually got Colin the question for me was every aspect of the investigation like there's no part of the investigation where I think you've covered that off you've done absolutely every Avenue Jerry and Kate were it were like they say prime suspects or should have been treated as prime suspects even behind closed doors you have to go to them go by the way your prime suspect in this you can privately be looking two things asking the right questions building a case of whether they did or not because when the Americans are then questioned they always say was a high possibility this could be the parents or at least the parents involved in some way it stinks of a this not really being a common thing that happened to these police B Portuguese people not being at the Portuguese police in the Portuguese authorities not really having much experience in this field and I almost give them a little bit of leniency for the fact that you know it's a little village type cop operation here where they say and what they used to know they [ __ ] it well and truly and and I think we would have a we would all I think we would know what happened if this had happened in England 100% I think we would have found that out because evidence etc would have been properly checked that's also though why this is so key is because you'll pick a vulnerable place you pick a place it's easy to slip away into the night Portugal is attached to Spain massive and then you're on mainland Europe basically whereas with Britain you've got to get you know you've got to get away somehow you're a mainland Europe in Spain and all those but you can jump through the country boys Morocco is arguably a very easy place to go to after you've gone through there but the police competency was a real problem from the very early time and from from the second that they were involved I think there are massive questions of everything they did questioning the McCanns correctly even taking evidence things were done weeks after they were supposed to initially have been done on the day also I think there's an if the Mekons are innocent especially yeah that must be quite heartbreaking to know you could have had your child back if the proper things have been done in time because time is everything in these things and then there comes for me the elements of professional pride where they let their image and their pride get in the way of reaching out to other authorities being threatened by the English coming in and I get why being threatened by other people being brought into the operation because and the only time it's gonna happen to you in your life is if you don't if you aren't very good at working out what your own deficiencies are accepting them and then accept help and that struck me looking at the investigation as these people knew other deficiencies were they knew where they'd messed up and they knew that they weren't as good as either other people who are coming in and that would be revealed because these other people going where's this evidence where's this where's this why aren't you checking mobile phone records like project Omega was or whatever it was hoping it was set up in the project range when it was set up in the UK why were all these things overlooked and then you think the other side of the policing competency C really underfunded C really poorly trained and like you say a small village operation where it's tends to be on day to day my dogs gone missing or you know there's a copper tree or whatever so you feel the other way for them or I also feel a bit sorry for them where they've been given such a big task in a big burden yeah you've nailed that there when it did come down to some of the evidence in the room the window there was only her handprint on the inside of the window and not right and then what they said when they dusted for prints not even glove prints see you go you wouldn't get a fingerprint but you get gloves and if you think about it there was no there was no real evidence that anyone had been in her hands so when they got do checking the timelines of the people who are at dinner with them yeah it was all out of whack and that wasn't a good sign now don't get me wrong it can be quite hard to remember what happens but you're only having to remember four hours five hours like that that was disappointing more than anything from an evidence dump I guess also were they a little squiffy mmm where they I mean you know you're going on holiday you're drinking Portuguese wine you know it's strong hungry oh yeah you've had a nice dinner there's a bit of tap ass do that so didn't they refuse to take part in the reenactment with the police I think yes that was literal ATAR again so the timelines that is what I'm saying about his I'm saying about police competency because everything was done so much later there have been this relationship building up over time of them trusting less and less in the police the more that more experts from the outside by giving them advice the more they were thinking well these police have [ __ ] up here and then there was the resentment building between the two parties of well you're not competent so you hiddenness on me because you know something else has happened and the relationship between the Mekons and the police brought down massively from very early on though I mean there are different interviews and there's one interview I know you want a reference where she basically said no comment and it caused them a tosser or whatever yeah that's much later on but even early on there were small comments from her where it felt like she didn't trust them and was maybe being obstructive and at that point you'd say that's counterintuitive to what they were trying to achieve the more this goes on the worse it looks for me like the my watch the worse I feel Awards the ma-kun's and I I do i I kind of want them to be innocent because you don't want to think that the parents would ever do that but they've put a wedge there quite early on between them and the police stuff yeah and and then then I know the police didn't help themselves either so they did it was like a snowball effect you know what I mean and it's also it comes back to that basic human psychology of when sometimes I know it feels weird but you know when you meet someone you don't like them in the first place sometimes that can just snowball and it it feels like there was that kind of a relationship there between them where there was initial mistrust which then became massive mistrust and then it basically broke down completely so that the months sort of go by then really it didn't we don't really get anywhere attempt on the documentary at this point decides to just tell you for 20 minutes about Portugal which was baffled me I remember Lucy I quite enjoyed that bit I [ __ ] hated it tell me I'm here to know about the Mekons losing their daughter not to find out what the Algarve's like and I'll be honest it did make me want to get [ __ ] annoyed me I'm like is this a [ __ ] advert I wanted to go to the Algarve after this I think I've actually been to the Algarve as a child is what worries me even more yeah I will I clean one of those and I don't wanna make too many jokes about the next thing that for me was key in the documentary by the way one thing I will one day all says I did like the amount they fact they counted the days that well it helped to put a timeline in and but seeing that 60 days I thought wow that's a lot yeah they had that so they brought in I think that Rob Murat at this point who was the translator for him we weird little translate like I know I liked it he was just he was just a guy who lived nearby your first feeling at him I never thought he was guilty no thought he was an odd man weirdo and I also felt sorry for him because he had all of the he all had all of the like the trappings and all of the signals of just being one of life's normal people he had a blind eye basically the logic if you haven't seen it was dodgy I dodgy guy right like because he desirable he looked a bit dodgy in some people's eyes they were like yeah mustard on it but and and then they basically a couple of journals met him and they were like he's got that Ian Hundley vibe and it's like he he basically tried the thing is in in tragic circumstances and I think there's a little bit of this in the sky I've been in tragic circumstances before and some reason there's people who are drawn to that oh yeah they get a little bit of a buzz off of feeling like yeah they're in the know and be there helping and they get off on that and I think he's one of he's a bit of a [ __ ] and sick [ __ ] for that he spoke Portuguese II spoken but he was like translate let's worm my way into the [ __ ] I'm loving it I'll finally cuz you know you got remember this guy lives quite a boring life for him he's he's live like he's enjoying it in some ways yeah he's the keeper of pride to live yeah he's the guy who listen everything's good he's like he like that yeah thing is he's para he really paid the price for sticking his nose in there and you have you feel sorry for him as well I do but I can giggle a little bit because he got paid out of it yeah his house got raided three times three separate time like literally what were you expecting the fine eat shot but that's again police if I'm taking us [ __ ] God not for muddled and do the rain do the right the right the first time if you great once you don't go do you check the oven we didn't check [ __ ] oven we've got to do another raid but if I go to my doctor and they check my prostate and they give me a clearance yeah I don't need his finger up my ass another two times sometimes and that is basically what happened to this poor bust and it would be terrible I have to say I think he would bloody love a finger up his ass no right we also be unusual if when your doctor did give you that prostate exam it was him let's check for Madeleine that would be like wait what Oh doctor so I did feel sorry for him and not not least because of the treatment from the press and I I think the press was short it just be horrible people that's the next element where the documentary showed it very well well what was reported personal motives of everyone who got involved in your story yeah the woman who was interviewed who said he had the Huntly vibe i instantly disliked because she clearly was loving being in front of the camera and the woman who identified him as the one she was going i am i know about this sort of thing and he has Ian Huntley virus and you're like can you [ __ ] how many entities be knocking around how many people of you legit she never interviewed Ian honey she never knew that [ __ ] she just wants to be the person who went got him and she wanted to be the one who possibly broke the big case well this is the one thing I will cut them some slack on right I think saying he's like you know here's Joe however serial killers murderers often get off on being in front of camera and dangling what they've done Araya or seeing the reaction of what they have done actually if you're in sera around people and so for example in the making a murderer sting the woman who died ex-boyfriend was around a lot in that time and people say that he was probably the one who did it for example I'm just saying and and maybe she put two and two together and got five because he was around a lot so I get I kind of get why they thought he should have been questioned but he got way worse that's a ever deserve the other side of that is if you're a good and this is again where I think the documentary finishes quite strong is saying how poorly the journalist did not help actually dude they were put in the headlight they had a picture of this poor guy he'd oh you know or they found porn on his computer like oh did Lauda bollocks yeah absolute bollocks and they paid well technically the journalists did not pay the price for that he got six hundred grand for a normally you get 300 grand I think he deserved like I think yeah I think million if you wrongly accuse someone of doing that [ __ ] you deserve million also because I think because his name was so tarnished then they and he says this at the end of the documentary never got to a point where they found the killer they found it a real in other words away it means also that he's gonna have a problem getting rid of his property I do think it's weird that he stuck around in that place if I'd had such a and I'm God forbid that I would ever have that kind of experience but if someone's had such a terrible experience like that do you really want to then stick around in the place where you'd have it you've certainly experienced struggle too but um no I yeah he got royally [ __ ] and then there was his website designer who you know what well he would got I can't remember this one right it was a long documentary this [ __ ] so probably about four episodes too long I come what Rob Moretz business was born he did a website made and he went to a Russian designer in prior deluge and the Russian guide had to leave Russia young he had to leave Russia young because of his parents having financial difficulties so he said he'd always wanted to make something of himself in Praia deluge and he was a web designer so he worked with a lot of people and I think you sort of techie guy in general stretch of his very techie guy they took his computer's because they thought that Rob had been in cahoots with him and they've been working together now I'm the computers that they took the rumor is that they found a lot of child pornography he then claims that that's and they're not his computers they're clients computers and in the documentary he really struck me he refused to answer what was on the computers oh I remember that right yeah that's a very awkward hanging moment because you don't hear very often the voice of the people making he does say he dismisses it and goes look any computer that you've got you're gonna have porn on there but then but then clarify that you need to then say love you if you'd be looking at big booty [ __ ] what's your problem I just say that yeah you'd only avoid that question if there's something wrong wouldn't you yeah I get that there are some those were very prior proud people and he's probably been put through the mill no this was that was worried that is that way that's weird and then there was the other factor of his late-night call from I think from Rob Mara to him around the time of the train which made me think what we were you really why would you call him the Oilers web designer you're calling him 11 o'clock at night what the service down what and neither of them remember the call even Rob Murat was out yeah of caught remember that I might not have it but dialed him via a pocket dial the Sameer yeah which the thing is once again that's weird but it's nowhere near as weird as some of the stuff with the Mekons so it's kind of like which road do you go to but it is a bit weird so then comes my favorite part of the documentary the sweetest dogs in the world finding either what I like no he wasn't no it was it not the Mekons a second interview with the police first okay yeah it was well yeah okay so let's go down look at cannons so the Mekons go for this second lot of questioning and the first lot of questioning it will be in brief as [ __ ] anyway no what were you having for dinner yeah what what was your favorite a pass it was it was very um yeah so Madeleine McCann disappearance the fort this is in the independent it's all official xlviii questions cape makan refused to answer in re-emerge now to me at this point she probably surmised that the the police were potentially looking at her as the murderer or whatever now just because that might be the case does not give you the right to ignore all the questions if I've been in a situation before as I said people know by now I've found someone dead before now when you find that person dead the police have to go through a certain line of questioning just you almost cross you off the list that you weren't involved in this in any way it's the practice now I didn't I didn't take that personally I thought you're doing your job I appreciate because if something hard have happened that was sinister I'd want you to ask these questions your so I'm not hanging over you especially that yeah and when you love or care about the person who has gone missing or died in anywhere you want to do everything you can yeah to help yeah so when I was getting questions not quite like this because this is a different but I've been questioned on the something might have happened where you might have been involved before I answer every single question in as much detail as you give me everything because you think yourself you're helping this man do his job and you're also removing any doubt that you had anything to do with it and it's just common sense you know what I mean yeah I feel like I've been here before so if I had to say what well anyway well I'll read the question yeah I think you know the funny thing is we've actually done this exact interview before on this pocket okay I'm gonna be reading this I was the mayor the third this is 2007 around ten o'clock when he went of the apartment what did you see what did you do where did you look what did you touch not know no answer did you search inside the master bedroom wardrobe Shawn two photographs of her bedroom wardrobe can you describe its contents why was the curtain by the sofa near the side window tampered with did someone go behind the sofa how long did you search the apartment how long did your search of the apartment take after the detected Madeline's disappearance why did you say Madeline had been abducted I don't know bright assuming Madeline was abducted why did you leave the twins to go to us to raise the alarm the supportive doctor could still be in the apartment or around why didn't you ask the twins what happened to their sister or why didn't you ask them later on they were fast asleep in from Cal Poly well we don't I you know but the point is by the way one more moment yeah when you raise the alarm at Thomas what exactly did you see what were your exact words yeah and there's just you know constant there's an what in total 48 quest questions that she refused to answer right now that all right you might be offended that people think that you might have had something to do with this but come on take your ass out you're a doctor you're a grown woman you know how the world works you've got to clear yourself and do the right thing answer these questions I am I refuse to accept if I'm a police officer here that is a good enough excuse for you to tell us that all [ __ ] yourselves when we're trying to find your daughter now this grace that I'm not even I'm not saying that this means she's guilty but it doesn't look good the other side of it is then when they when the English people got involved when all these people got involved she was very open and honest with all those people so it does it like that says earlier with the relationship between people and that's another side but what book I don't know like I get what you're saying that's not good enough from her as a mother your child's gone missing everyone's out searching and you're refusing to answer questions the the the logic I guess they're for her and I'm trying to get into what that would be would be you are trying to pin this on me so any information I'll give you you're gonna try and work it back to make me look bad I said nothing wrong Zack Lee yeah then you've got nothing to hide the same way when I phoned my friend dead I had nothing to hide so therefore I answered every [ __ ] question with nor fear with nothing to hide yeah there was not an ounce of me that thought and even when our he's on why now I think even for maybe a millisecond when I'm answering these questions the thought crosses my head ov over hope they don't think I've done anything yeah do you know what you think well after summer because I know I've done nothing yeah and I care about this person too much to hide away and not answer these questions so the other side is as well and I think some adds to the interview process for me which i think is awkward the language barrier so there's a massive language barrier between the police and they're a probably prime suspects and be the people they should be helping so either way having a translator there is not gonna make it easy and that's where I don't think that the British were involved quick enough they should have been there next day in the same way very much the journalists were and that was really troubling for me next on the timeline comes to of the sweetest dogs you've ever met in your life - under that you love the dog I love the dogs and I think the dogs first of all explain why they were there then the dogs were just two dogs knocking around randomly and they went lady in the Trump we can help what I've got a bit of information you want might warm yeah I can slip things out so they met them in the bar no so there's a guy then a specialist who's bought him he's trained his dogs in in a way where he can saw these dogs can pick out specific things only those there's there's many different dogs that they've got so there's one dog that they would use for weed one dog for cancer apparently ghastly herbs and obviously there was two dogs that they used one for blood and one for rotting corpse liquid a ver great abra-cadaver and the side of that is that dogs can't be swayed in a case they're not emotional about this they're purely being rewarded for when they find and to a point where I believe it was trained to the point where it could pick out which finger that it was on or something like that no not even the hand like the exact point not only that but there was something so the FBI tested these links and there were 12 cloths one had human blood on it they washed it three times then the dogs are sniffing again still found the one with the blood on it very accurate very very good so these dogs are going around the flat now there is another side to this which people say well you could he could have rewarded the dogs that could be a signal to the dog going back over there or whatever but I think I'd be very difficult it's on camera and you watch it it's very convincing that the dogs are sniffing sniffing sniffing stop and they're bought by either bark or point because one of them was very sweet he'd point with his nose in very nice so that for me is very sweet I love it was these dogs are diligent do you know they've got they've got little personalities and they're going around the room and suddenly they'll stop and you'll either see blood or the body and that was really troubling for me because I thought well you know the Wardrobe and the curtain those would seem like two places you put a dead body at some point if you if you were trying to hide it or something like that and what the dog's got no other motive well doc it's a treat however it finds something or not so people go well it is because it's motivated I know the dogs get fed the same way either post ordering so it still knows either way at the end of this exercise I'm gonna get something they're timeline-wise this is where it gets a bit tricky because they hired a hire car after the notification that she'd gone missin 25 days they say on iPod I'll go back to the [ __ ] typical one of us okay we can't not make the least one Joe throughout this part yes because this is who we are so we're not being constable the we're making a joke about me using the word notification yeah so the dog had picked up the scent of rotting corpse in the hire car and and that was tested as well so that the problem is obviously it by that point the child had already gone missing why on earth are we picking up rotting corpse in the hire car and there was other things that it was picked up on so we've got the curdle cut the teddy bear that was seen under Madelyn McCann's mother's arm when she came to report the missing child how on earth would there be rotting corpse on Moodle car when if she'd gone missing why the mother's clothes that would there be not the mother's clothes the baby's clothes the hire car unless the report of the child missing and then got rid of the body later other people also say well it could be the rotting flesh of a chicken or whatever that they've cooked the dogs specifically can find the difference but don't get me wrong I think while I believe the dog that's not that's not a certain size ever thought I'd [ __ ] believe interviewing Snoop Dogg so I while I believe and I I personally take it as a 95 percent accuracy in my head there is that percentage of there might be something wrong this is an animal yada-yada-yada so it's it's just it doesn't look good once again it's just another thing that looks bad it looks terrible for me it should have happened much earlier because if you do that early on and you've got access to garyun Kate McCann early on before the trust is broken down and you going in you go neutral animals have found this you are then putting pressure on people because it could it could be also that they that they were abducted and for instance the person had to slowly escape from the flat so that originally they were on their way out Jerry came back the person goes into the master bedroom and had to hide in there or they hid behind the sewing that could have happened accrued the other side of it that wouldn't make sense is if the body had been hid in the behind the sofa or something that happened behind sofa and then it had been hidden or something had happened in the master bedroom there's no way that they can get the body out of there after they've reported it no I I think for sure the if the parents had anything to do with the death they'd found a way and these are not people who would one of the means of money they've got money to take the body away put the body somewhere come back to the house tell everyone yeah I've just put the kids to bed go to dinner and then agree between the two of them you're gonna say she's gone missing she's been taken later on and with how clinical and how cold of people they are I believe that they could have done that I I'm not saying that that's what happened but I think they've got that within their personalities to execute with precision these are not dumb people these are not people without money these are people who are switched on and not the most emotional people you've ever seen and these are people with more kids to twins to live for - and in their heads we've got to make sure that we avoid prison because we've got two kids to look after things like that you can rationalize it you can you and I I've been amazed in my life I've known some really shitty people in my life who have done some horrible things to people and it amazes me what people can get themselves off with like alleviate guilt and just be like oh you know this happened it's not our fault we've and I do but I can especially Jerry he's the strong one he's really don't like he's the strong one he's the one who keeps the other go we've got to do this we've got to get through this whenever anyone attacks them he's the one who's so right after the blood was found because of the dogs they basically were able to find blood that we were able to test for DNA before the DNA tests were given Jerry and Kate were being interviewed and one of the questions was how did you feel when the blood was found yeah an incident because Jerry's always missed that in control regardless of whether he did or not but especially if he did it if he thought I've got a lid on this now we were out we're in the clear now when this happens it's a first time we've ever seen him shaken yeah he rips the microphone off now I'm not doing this now and it's the first time I'm like in my head I thought or you're rocked you up you're worrying you're worrying or what this Bloods gonna show here and that possibly more than anything else because to me I think remember my friend died I found my friend and and for a minute they I was in a situation where I was being questioned about what had happened if if if any evidence had been found for example that it alluded to the fact that something had gone wrong knowing I was innocent I would be happy hmm I'd be like great the found blood maybe she's clawed the guy maybe it's his blood I'd be delighted I wouldn't be ripping my [ __ ] microphone off and panicking and Sean I was visibly shaken and not for me when I was looking at I was like oh this does not look once again there's no proof of what happened their body language their answers their non answers is showing didn't build its signs of guilt to me and I and I might have this completely wrong and our an apologize if I do because it's a to accuse parents of killing their own kid is a horrible thing but but they're not helping themselves as what I'm saying you you help yourself when you just you show signs of innocence and when someone finds blood in your apartment you should be happy you shouldn't be shown that you're you're shook doesn't look good although you know then you can say the other side of that is that was in a media interview they don't a lot of media stuff you know they've had a lot of questioning over that there they're sick of information being leaked by the police so they were made official suspects right after this I believe and another another thing that doesn't look good in my opinion is when you're made a suspect hopping on a plane and going back England like why would you want to because they can clearly a forward to stay there it seemed that people were coming forward to helping their with money and it's like we're getting on a [ __ ] plane here and we're going now and to me that was another sign of like terrible PR in a first place if not terrible guilt I think it was just guilt to me they were like we're worried now we're scared it's turning the tide is turning so this this is and I toured not to get carried away because I am quite annoyed by this whole thing because the idea that someone would kill their own kid [ __ ] pisses me off but once again I have to try and remove emotion from it maybe they just didn't trust a Portuguese put police exactly maybe that was the case however if you're really wanting to find your child being in the place she was abducted seems like a better course of action than [ __ ] off back to England and when you [ __ ] off but England as soon as people start pointing the finger at you or it just doesn't look good once again so to counter all of what you said they're a they if you believe your child's been abducted you probably believe your child is as far away from prior deluge as you could be when you go back to England because there's no way that the child's gonna be possibly within the immediate vicinity at that point they've got can I just yeah there is a case in America where a kid was kept about seventy eight miles away for sixteen years but that just happens sometimes absolutely understand that the other side of that which would then play into is look we've had no joy so far we're never going to be able to go into the basement I think it was a basement that child was kept in for so many years we're never gonna be able to go into the basements of all these people in this area we can't do any more searching we can't do anything else and the other side of it was that the UK government I think at that point had sort of got involved and I don't think they were particularly helpful in the sense that as soon as that UK got involved the Sun the all the red top's basically got involved and started to make it a nationalist thing where it was like the competent British police should be taking care of this not the incompetent drunk idiot you know foreign as when you say that so for example if if that was their attitude of which it was we we can't know but if the Mekons attitude was we can't really do anything more now yeah why go on a some sort of world tour because that was strange to me yeah can we talk about the the water what do you one thing they went on some sort of broad show yeah well that's what was called and that's how it was portrayed it was weird hi I mean I kind of once again I I guess doing something is better than doing nothing or you know you're trying to search for your daughter you're coming to the conclusion she's probably not still in Portugal but that perfectly intertwined with the Portuguese police deciding they might have had something to do with it say we're going on a sorry well just saw we're just gonna go and check out the other countries now where she might be yes fair enough she might have been that but just two quints you know y'all saying are we caught which is probably a million miles away now we can't really do anything and then they go on this tour I don't know it just I think we're does the word II so him in my head the other way side of it for me was the the religious side of this whole thing where so religion is a lovely thing for a lot of people I felt when watching them and maybe I'm just cynical because I'm other words a lot of church-going wasn't there's a little Church going by these people she left a lot of answer machine messages and stuff in the church there was also a lot of church-going Durham pride allusion by the way raid the church yep like I'm not saying nothing I'm not saying it's I'm not saying it raised the church I'm not saying it is a like a prime suspect place but if if a child's been taken a church will have no problem with you going in there and just looking around right side note I think we know what you're getting that I mean let's be honest if we're gonna go off track record the churches should be the first place the police make on it so kids got missing right we're going to church after the church why just just please yes um don't worry the the priest only ever really portrayed one side a priest is a very good public relations outside the church and she goes I just wanna [ __ ] you all the hospitality you know and she fake cries I looked at I was like she's [ __ ] face they then go back they hide it for me they use faith to hide behind and I there's nothing I hate more than people who use their faith to hide behind well so the people who were of her church were portrayed almost like family members yeah and to me this documentary really didn't explore the possibility or the probability that the Mekons could have had anything to do with this it was all every person they asked like apart from the one Portuguese police officer every person the police officers buckhorn the churchgoers all their friends were like nought couldn't had anything to do with it and I was like I think I would have preferred it if the documentary maybe had have explored that possibility more I get what you mean there are a few things I wish it had explored more like a course their friends are gonna say it now it was nothing to do with them awesome okay so the opposite of that is they can't the documentary obviously can't go guilty because legally then just can't go out so they have to leave it to you to make the conclusion no but I don't think it just give other people's points of view like well they wouldn't do this and the way I felt the opposite way where I felt like it left a few things hanging where I thought all right they're trying to tell me there that that's in question or they're trying to tell me there that for instance some people who analyze their actions some people analyze them no but it added in a lot of things to give the possibility that something else happened to her a lot more than it did with the payer and saw it for example like the the pedophiles in the area like don't get me wrong that is an important point there is but when the copper copper goes-p doors need holidays too I was like is this really am I really hearing this right now also the that pedophile said the specific pfr they talked about the one who's targeting the kids go through medical mask he targeted English children I think he talks to slightly older children but still targeting glish killed Rijn it was in the 40 mile radius or these kind of things that will borrow me the other side to it is I thought they look guilty win them at the Pope all the parents yeah really yeah made you think that just the way I don't know where maybe you be like oh my god it's the Pope's or actually I was like yeah there's one rule of thinking where some people say to me would they really have gone on that whole sort of crusade to find their child back if they were killed in yeah I'm like yeah yes yeah with it you when you meet that bond if you if you do that you you they're very smart people and they're smart enough to say to each other we're gonna have to appear like for deciding this can I have to commit a hundred percent yes we're gonna have to meet the Pope we're gonna have to but I think that there would be moments where you say that in the planning stages whatever though you're gonna have to if you're gonna remain free people you're gonna have to [ __ ] to the nth degree double down and and that means if you meet the Pope but there would be moments there will be moments where not in their words but their body language and if if if you're like did imagine you'd kill this kid you're like [ __ ] how where happen to meet the [ __ ] Pope to do to get away whether she's religious the allegedly rehearsed people that and even if you give us shame will seep from their [ __ ] paws so that's what I thought was a real good clip I thought was a real problem for me was when I met them I thought if I was religious how would I feel if I met the Pope I wouldn't I wouldn't do it that way put it that way if I what did i do or was it okay great image and she was showing you always draw her she she whenever it's a high-pressure situation she implored I the first video when they first come out so coffee help don't think had don't you know I'm saying like I have a feeling that you think this this is that one went one way no I actually the thing is though and I don't know why I don't know why but I do feel a bit sorry for Kate more than Jerry and I think it might just because I think Jerry's an [ __ ] I don't know but what okay thing about her way because she implodes because she if if they're guilty once again there's no way it known but because she implodes and I can say she isn't as strong as him and she's not as cold as him and she feels more and maybe sorrow for the child the loss of life maybe that's all it is I think it hurts her more it's harder for her get through situations more whereas he is more selfish men usually are anyway and more ruthless and more able to get through these situations and because she shows more weakness I feel sorrier for her for her when parents lose children is very common for them to split up yeah and because they've stuck together this whole [ __ ] time I can't help but feel that there is something keeping them together as well yeah and and and I don't know like I just feel like he is in those situations where she's having to do ridiculous things like meet the Pope if she is guilty of it he is sort of drugging her through it and you see him cuddling her all the time um rounder come on yeah this trade either way he might just be that kind of husband he might be like oh maybe he's just a supportive guy maybe I don't know what I'm talking about what I don't know like I can we talk so I had a question which I was sort of if we sort of explored this situation enough here have we gone through the actually looking at it now with their back to England and they never went back to Portugal until the police officer wrote a book about them accusing them of being involved in what we our opinions of him writing a book multiple opinions to be honest so that okay so there's a few things on the one hand he was getting called everything under the Sun and he kind and he kind of deserved to have a say back why she did a podcast or summat yeah but he thought he did the same and he had to have his say and I do think he was entitled to deny the claims about himself in a book however the book or in an in one article in a national newspaper a [ __ ] book mmm a book maybe as to but the end of the day the national newspapers who have already destroyed him have probably sold a lot of papers based on that themselves have made a lot of money for themselves so money is going to go wherever his opinion goes regardless yeah so there's I don't I thought the book thing was tacky but you know he deserved the Hubble you see he looks better now he's definitely used the money well to slick he's done the Georgia Marine your thing he's got he's quit the job and he looks ten ten times better yeah no more doughnuts ironically all those claims that use a fatty me it seemed to have worked yeah bullying does one YouTube comments a testament of that with me but anyway get up whaling I do think he probably overstepped them well he definitely overstepped the mark and some of the things he said in the book from Washington and but for me the most interesting thing was the Mekons reaction it's like oh now you want to go back to Portugal huh nah no you do want to go back to Portugal until it's time to make sure that you're in the [ __ ] clear i I don't know I just thought like should you not have been back on the anniversaries and things like that and maintained a relationship with the poet and try amend look cuz to me right I know they didn't like the police but in my head I'm like your daughter's missing you don't like these people but these people might be the only way you're ever going to get your [ __ ] child back so you better make sure you've got how many people do we work with on a day to day basis should we think of [ __ ] arseholes but we just get on with it because we need them to achieve a goal imagine your goal is to get your daughter back you make friends with people if you [ __ ] have to the other side of that is the UK and those people were informing them basically these are incompetent and you shouldn't trust them fair enough but they made no effort at all they could have at least tried to mend fences a little bit okay so only climb they turn off is to get in the court and to make sure that nobody believes that they did anything that's like Jeremy newsflash half the [ __ ] will think she did it pallets me wake up speaking of and for that reason they didn't take part in this documentary by the way they didn't take part in the documentary despite it being on arguably one of the biggest platforms in the world one of the best chances for them to raise awareness for their daughter's disappearance on top of the 11 million pounds they didn't want to take part it because it would enhance the conspiracy theories and it's like literally me and you are involved you're gonna have a much better say you're gonna be able to put your site across I don't know like he's his actions are just very strange I know they don't line up with an innocent man that the parents's auctions some of them line up with Anissa people but too many of them for me lineup of people who are riddled with guilt I say they should have sent a card now but anyway they should have sent a card to the police first of all sorry mate secondly the bit which really I found bizarre in the document while we still on the cop I think we probably have it recovered yeah we covered the police so basically we think he shouldn't have written the book I think was unprofessional tucky is also unprofessional a policeman the whole point of your position in society is you're meant to be able to handle secrets you meant to be able to keep these and let's not forget and and I hope that we haven't tread this situation with a lack of respect a girl is missing and he is now benefiting from the fact that a girl is missing now I know your your job as a police officer is to right wrongs and new crime is your business but not in that way it's not and if you bust a drug dealers then fair enough but this is a little baby girl well some people would argue justice is much bigger and it's sort of Arc's much bigger than him so if it goes for if you trying to just justice in a small case you'll actually make the arc bigger because it takes a longer to for justice to be should just be I don't know he should have just been running a little restaurant somewhere he wasn't and you know what I bet he would love running a lovely restaurant all I'm saying is I felt like it disrupts justice and it disrupts those things better than it helps those who helps himself more when it happens then when you're and to be speak on the half of the makan side when you're confiding and you're going through a situation like this with a police officer you don't want to be worrying about the fact that he might write a book on what you told him one do although he also he clearly has gamed the system and I think it does show the justice system in some countries probably every country is insufficient they kept all the information to themselves because they were talking about the privacy that the police have in Portugal but they were but they were leaking things to the press so yeah I think the Daily Mirror got a copy of her it was Daily Mail something got a copy of her private diary yeah the only source that could have been from was the police and and I felt sorry for her once and when that happened because you know if she is innocent she's obviously writing some of the worst feelings that she's ever kind of experience as a parent in there and that is very private and that that was when I really felt sorry for her that was if I was like a little bit rocking the other way then I was oh god that [ __ ] I feel really bad for other also though she's never gonna write in it yes I did eight like that that would be crazy I think although I would if the police are watching I would inspect that see there's any chord in there yes the first letter of every set in the stocks with I the I D I T you know love him yeah but she didn't put any spaces between I so cards these people getting a lot of fan mail and hate mail yeah well yeah did you find it first of all the reading of one of the hate mails I found very bizarre Jerry was very cold very he almost looked callous to what was being said it was sort of like I hope you are curse your family the rest of your lives you're using innocent people's money to solve and pay your mortgage what the thing is right there's it's one thing having that opinion what kind of [ __ ] the right side look at Christmas card that you then that's basically tricking someone into definitely reading it I obviously am leaning one way I think that's quite clear right now but there's no proof of it yeah so and because of that you know I wouldn't sit either of these two people down and accuse them of things because I really do feel like you need more evidence to do that but to then go through Google find their address out and write this [ __ ] postcard what kind of psychopath would do that well to put it on top of that what kind of nutters then sort those into different categories of the kind of cards that they received I'm lucky a Christmas I don't even give a [ __ ] about cards from my local don't write me a card but these people are getting cards year round hope everything's okay hope is all good you think that's lovely I put that in a nice I'll keep that imagine you did it and you're getting people well wishing you as well you're like and I couldn't another one like I genuinely like being nasty is someone in the past like or whatever I got quite guilty over like I should never have said that yeah I really shouldn't have said that the times I mean you fall now and I ring you like the I'm sorry for in the dick yeah I can't imagine the level of guilt like to get through that in a life would be and not not know there's just small tells though so I feel like those are the small town so if you keep and catalogue the terrible cards that you are receiving there's something though you think are these people cataloging this for a reason is that a tell if we are bad people we need to keep these bad messages we are or I didn't see a part which I could though which was like you know hate mail don't catalogue it just put it in a bag it's not something you need to get was just in the kitchen on the side like these are all weird things that's that is so weird I thought that's really strange I understand if you keep one and you go this would be something and it was the way he wrote it yeah immediate fashion I think he giggled a bit after he liked it and I'm like can we just your daughter's missing yeah she's been missing for a long time people think you did it they're sending you hate mail because they think you did it and you're laughing about it coming the one when I say it like that it's weird yeah again really weird not only that you've catalogued it kept it and it is in piles okay is weird that's just strange it is bizarre people who are separated from the situation like live and yes house that's too big no no pay for by the public of course separate separated by the situation is important what did you think of all the people that surround the McCanns because it's in this point in the documentary where you see they employ a PR guy who puts them on a bit of a PR offensive well he does it was awful by the way he well they've got 11 million pounds to plough anew this investigation again ourselves and and the sort of father for though all that they've had a few bad fan mail the goodness of the public came out and supported them including billionaires and whatever milli hundred million is and who put their own money forward by the way the so that that's I get on in just a second so the PR guy is awful he's probably one of the worst PR guys I've ever seen so he advises them badly and then gives an interview on TV where they say you understand that Jerry and Kate they don't look remorseful they don't look sad they don't look as if you know they're still grieving I if I was the PR guy my reply would be Jerry and Kate have grieved privately in this situation and really want you to respect the distance between the them and you know the situation his reply well no one could say how much you've got to grieve he said no one needs no one can tell you how much you have to grieve no don't say that because that he no longer grievance of what that implied was that they had you know a couple of weeks and they were like yeah well I feel a little bit better that was an awful couple of weeks [ __ ] doubt was the worst holiday ever you know I'm just like I remember I mean this is the thing people think me and Lawrence are different it is weird how similarly we think right I remember watching that and being like what the [ __ ] did you just say son what did you just say so so then he just she doesn't follow that up by going sorry what she's guys yeah absolutely no then that was actually a really good no because when I think when you're an interviewer thought when someone's coming up with a [ __ ] like that yeah you like don't check out yeah he thinks he's on a roll here he's gonna give you more [ __ ] like Jerry and Kate at the psycho don't worry guys this is why you pay me the big what's this I'll show you how it's done Jerry Inc no deny that they killed her I mean at this point is up in the air she like me ask me no questions I'll tell you no lies as their PR guy very well that's why also then the flip side of that is that there were they begin they began to be surrounded by people who were Robert Murat well-wishes but on a sinister level where they knew for instance one of the guys said this is great for my exposure so this is really good exposure for me so people use them as a way and probably a tax offset as well to be honest we like just throw a lot of money at the situation you mean and then okay so now let's talk about the millionaire who sat on the couch that was way too big for him his sofa you know the millionaire his sofa is [ __ ] he looks like he's taking the cushions out you know when it like a toddler would take her up the cushions off but how small does he look on that sofa what a weird man so he was a multi-millionaire who had been buying the world's biggest coach this man of the world's biggest couch but he made a lot of money I think from double-glazing and a few businesses why why give these people millions when you know that there are so many credible sources out there there are so many worthy cause yeah I think why I give money with with the Mekons being shrouded in did they or didn't their to pick those people to give your extra millions to and not for example children's charity which is in Italy early all good and you know once again the Mekons might be innocent but the fact that they might not be is enough for me to go well that's definitely not innocent about a charity yeah general so that that was a bit strange that did strike me as unusual and then there were a few people as well who said well when I met them I knew instantly that they were innocent to those people I say it [ __ ] really [ __ ] because you never met them so how do you know it's not there was times where I warmed to them a little bit and this times and ultimately I want them to be innocent so I'm going to truly in that way despite all of the strange things that they did in the aftermath but there is not a single person on this planet other than those two people who know for a fact if they're innocent so I can't sit here and say definitely guilty or I knew I knew you don't anyone who's sitting there at home right now there's not one of us who can sit in so I know this unless you're Kate and Joey we just can't do that so people are talking [ __ ] when they say that okay then it sort of troubled me then after that it brings it on for pedophile Richardson yeah sorry just to those people I found an interesting way the people in Portugal were praying the people in their local church were praying and often okay rather than be there and be thankful or injury rather than be there and say thank you send a little message Cheers you know that's strange as well because to me if I was in that situation and there was an outpouring of emotion and I don't know two hours and things like that before try razor and nip down the street and go at your church if they're all praying for you you know be then I know that they might say oh the cameras would turn up or whatever I don't know I just found it if there's an outpouring of emotion be there with those people it's also the reliving of a tragedy going you've already maybe in your grieving process you've already been through that well that's a good boy it's a good point and maybe that's the truth and maybe they just wanted to sort of let the days go over and not have to deal with it but I don't know that was a little bit maybe I'm being harsh there before I think you're probably right if that's the thing it's all dependent on if they're guilty so if they are guilty and also I'm comparing their actions to what my actions would be and that again isn't fair because everyone acts differently but but that's what the newspapers preyed on the newspapers praising everyday people and I think Kelvin Mackenzie the piece of [ __ ] says it during the documentary when he says well we weren't thinking about facts we were thinking about the emotion of the headline and the way that you feel when you see it and even says it in the Leveson inquiry which was partly not ball around that bought around by multiple things madam was one of them and he says yeah we we go on if we if it looked right we generally thought it was right and you thought use piece of [ __ ] German you know to even call yourself a journalist after you've said that it makes you the biggest piece of [ __ ] I've ever seen and Cal McKenzie we know as a history anyway lying in public but it or miss misrepresenting truths he and every newspaper and a lot of our outlets benefited from this happening because they were getting through housewives who thought god what if I left lost mine there would be two fathers who thought I find it they played on people's emotions to sell newspapers and the British public were right for it that time and it was a this was pre like the prime of the Internet well yeah and also it was in an era where obviously we'd see in the so and murder as murders happen and kids had been I don't know it felt like a new era where you had to be more worried about kids going missing and stuff like that that's what they prey on fear that's the next question I was going to ask you do you think the McCanns if they did it or whoever did this crime get away with this crime today if it is done today because I thought that very little until later in documentary chat about tweets Facebook those things I think one that actually says Facebook was only a year in Twitter was in its infancy mobile phones were different then as well so they didn't have the good cameras now if someone saw something happening people tend to whip a phone out and go all video that or I'll take picture of that just in case it's in my thought yeah things like for criminals it's hot it's getting harder and harder sure that you get away with things I don't think necessarily it's about when it happened as much as where it happened I think if it happened now in Portugal probably still get away with it but do you think though that in that area do you think though also if if Jerry and Kate are because I put some serious thought into how the news cycle works now and how people go through every aspect of a story but in different ways well when when you talk about the media I think if Jerry and Kait particularly had have come from a poor background and were working-class people and didn't speak the way they spoke the media's treatment of them would have been different and you know they would have been punished for being like neglectful as a child they would have been absolutely drawn through the mud you know I mean and a lot of people say and especially if their skin color would be indifferent if their background had being different people would have looked at them an entirely different way they have been very lucky to face no backlash other than the public opinion so what I find interesting is and I do wonder Twitter and I think Facebook and social media has changed the way that consciousness on a public level works now they brought that up in the doc where they showed some of the trips are being written about called some people trolls which I was uncomfortable with because actually some people I think some people probably were trials but some people also were probably just saying I think you're [ __ ] done it you piece of [ __ ] I think the way they're portrayed in the documentary which I think the whole document we did lead towards they are innocent from the director but to discount people raising as we're doing right now real questions even if you believed they were innocent most people still have questions about this so the Mekons if they one can be like oh yeah we've got a few trolls not you have got a huge percentage if I would say at least 50 percent of the population really unsure whether you did this or not yeah you know so to discount it as just trolls I thought was being very kind to them so the other side of that is then in modern media now it pretty much goes through a cycle where you'll see all the bad press and media come out at once then there'll be a slight rest a few opinion pieces on the weekend and the week after you'll see the other side of the story explored where they'll go so terrible terrible terrible good and I wonder if it's if now the Jerian Kate did it or not if they did do it whether it would almost make it easier for them to come out and admit that they were those people who did it and because the media will give them a different trial by media than you would have gotten back in the day which would have just backing that back then was a couple of people who had big national newspapers and big channels who could talk now piñon can be swayed by smaller amounts of people so YouTube for example like I mean this I think will be kind the mainstream media don't have the same poll that they used to they can't just kill people the way they're used to because he thinks easier for them to admit it now so I think now they get a kinda reception if they were to admit they'd done something terrible then back in the day when basically they'd have been buried yeah I still think they'd be [ __ ] but I think it would be terrible for them regardless I don't think that would change but well what do you think of the people who say they saw someone carrying a child and what do you think of that woman who said she saw two men by the pool all these people what do you think about so I like I said I've experienced like that kind of a little bit of a situation where I found someone dead before and a lot of people kind of just want to come out and have a camera in front of their face yeah and I've had I've read reports on situations where I've been in situations before and what is written down and what people think this see and and all of that and it's very rarely like oh yeah I was driving and I seen a couple and they look like they didn't want to be seen and I'm like yeah I'm watching the documentary like how did this make it into incredible supposedly credible document there's no evidence there's no nothing that this could be any they could maybe they were startled because you were driving 70 miles an hour in a 30 you know whatever you know what I mean like there's not so to me unless there's anything really concrete I tend to just sort of blow it off really so then what do you think about the pedophile ring side of it because the harrowing side of the documentary was where they described the mother of another child who's poorer Portuguese went into a went to the police very little happened very little money wasn't very little time was invested very little anything was invested into it but she found basically a catalog for pedophiles and young kids and she was allowed to see it and it had her son in it and that crap that made me look I felt sick when I heard and you think okay then there's that possibility as well I mean that's that's the worst of the worst that any parent could feel and yeah that as sick and as sad as it is to accept that is a very real part of life now we're kids thousands of children go missing every single year and Madeline Kahn is an exception to the rule where it was raised the awareness was raised and heightened to an unprecedented extent I do feel like they're connecting things that may or may not be connected or you know that once again I think it was an important point I raised for the documentary that these things happen and it could have been this but there are there are so many other circumstances to be taken into account as well so it's important to know and that these things happen but no fingerprints were found in that no no handprints were found in that room no no no evidence whatsoever of a person coming in there other than the parents so until I've you know it's acknowledged but there's nothing to piece together here so you're looking at it like very okay well that's what really first everything comes back with the Mekons that frustrated me about documentary because it only dealt with individual timelines for each person and it for me it didn't mix the timelines enough and sort of go so if the McCanns have gone to a place where they know that there would be an easy escape for anyone who wanted to take their child maybe they've there not solved their child but they wanted to get rid of her all these kind of things why didn't they mix timelines because there's no point where they assess whether there's someone who's been in the police there's no point where they go where the police are part of this was private I think the one thing that was an interesting point was that on the dinner bill I think at one point there was these this couple have to have this time slot because they leave their kids alone so someone booked a week ahead yeah and that wasn't allowed for anyone else and it was said that that was why the kids were left home alone and I don't know if that was specifically written but it was there was a reference on the on the dinner booking and I was like that is a bad thing the right honored dinner but we left in public site as well yeah one of the guys who was the private investigator Kevin halogen just a small detail he he was found to be a fraud so he was another one of those people who benefits off the back of the McCanns and all good sent someone a threatening I think he the text message or email with the lyrics from gangster's paradise have you do you remember this part I do actually yeah if you're trying to threaten someone Coolio if you're gonna try and pick a rapper to use their lyrics I don't know maybe 50 cent maybe biggie Coolio would be bottomless living in gangster's paradise I think that also gangsta paradise it sounds like a nice place to go general I mean do you want to go gangsta's paradise with me yeah i know i'm a loc'd out gangsta set trippin banger no you're not met yeah you are little music sound so don't arouse my anger eyeball alright don't be don't be caught and Coolio maybe he thought he was pretty hard doing that didn't and when you've seen a picture of him you also imagine I can't imagine that man listening to Coolio death day nothing but a heart beautiful my conclusion I think most likely scenario there's no possible 100% this happened what is the most likely scenario with everything that we know can I do you genuinely think that we can work out do you think with the information we have we can work out why it's the most likely scenario mm-hmm I think so I think Pedro ring is is is a scenario that could have legitimately happened I do I do think if they were prepared to go in there and snatch a kid they wouldn't have just taken one that's not that is my opinion but maybe I'm being stupid there and people can tell me in the comments of I am but I don't know I I think that these guys the worst of the worst and I am the worst case scenario so maybe I'm wrong but regardless it is a real scenario that could have happened terrible I just think with them Khan's actions I would lean more towards them having an involvement in it and with the dog with their behavior when the blood turned up and Jerry clearly rocked by that and worried and her imploding under the pressure and fair crying and what do you think of that the wider bigger conspiracy theory about it being like that these people initially had had a child snatched then it became such a thing basically good people got involved with terrible people who were like you know global pedophiles kind of level and they were don't understand what you mean there's a big theory out there I think online that basically people in the media were scrambling to cover up what had happened and so it does not serve them to have the McCanns founder there's there's been cover-ups before I mean a lot of people might have heard of a woman called Jill Dando it was a news reporter in the in the past who was known for uncovering things and people assume she uncovered a pedophile ring that has been later exposed I think that's actually beyond assumption now I think people yeah I'm just sort of covering this a bit but there was obviously a pedo ring in the political slush entertainment world high society where very famous people were Peters and she is alleged to have stumbled upon that and someone went and shot her on a doorstep one day and so these things are [ __ ] real they are real and it's just sick to accept that but it is but in in regards to this yeah the the dogs highlighting the dead body scent and all of that and the DNA turning up and I think the match of the DNA was 15 out of 20 and although that that is a variable that could be quite common and it could have been from the family I don't know that there's a lot that points to the Mekons in my opinion and and if I had like sort of bet on it that was that was where my money would be interesting I was sort of left the other not the other way but I was left much more neutral originally when I watch the documentary I thought this is gonna show them as guilty people it's gonna be very damning especially as they didn't take part in it that's another thing that sort of made me feel a bit strange I felt more neutral by the end of it and I felt not more confused but it's just like the same other do the more you look into the Michael Jackson thing what you more you look into all those things there's just a deluge of information which doesn't tell you either way it's all just accounts it's all just people go well what about this but what about this what about this there is no there's no one out there who can tell me a definitive story of what happened and that really frustrates me obviously I don't know this I would I would definitely lean towards the parents doing it to be honest with you but especially based on chance and what they say psychologically all these kind of things that it needs to be someone who's close it's very rarely does the thing yeah here's the thing for me there's more evidence or there's more science that point to them than anyone or that person and that's that's that's it fingerprints DNA body language interviews more points to them than any one other person now that might because the person who did it has never been caught and they never left a single fingerprint and then there's no evidence that it was anyone else was even in the [ __ ] room other than them but that's what I'm left with really and that the problem with that is now is that I wouldn't lock them up over it I wouldn't I wouldn't if this were a trial there's reasonable doubt there is there is and I'm not talking about reasonable that some people mistake it for any doubt and II don't and reasonable doubt or not the same thing there is reasonable doubt for the Mekons and I could I wouldn't be confident enough to say if I was in a jury they did it but I'd find them not guilty and then I'd be that [ __ ] at the Unruh cause I do think they did it but there's just not enough [ __ ] evidence support them down here put it this way they're unlikely to offend again and I think I mean I don't mean that trivially but I mean society is meant to be protected by prisons and those sorts of things these people have done something Passa potentially terrible if they did it if not you kind of think the life that they now lead is probably a big punishment for it it's a little bit like OJ Simpson you you you to that but look at Jerry's when he read that hate mail card oh yeah he doesn't seem like someone who's living I mean that's just a tiny window and maybe at night when you go to sleep your touch tortured by memories or whatever I don't know but it's amazing what people could forgive themselves with I agree however that's only on a conscious level and I think unconsciously if someone's done something terrible they live without for the rest of their lives and I don't think you ever really get over that that becomes the fabric of a person rather than I disagree though I just I really do I thought I I think I think you're you're talking about me and you you're talking about regular real people who who feel pain when they even hurt their friends feelings in order to and I'm not just speaking about the Mekons here I've I've met some people who done some [ __ ] [ __ ] things and can just wake up like it's nothing there they're out there the word sociopath spun around the cycles people they really exist these people and they can do whatever it takes to preserve themselves and not just how they are I get self-preservation I guess what I'm saying is no man unconscious of all these people are tortured in some way and you can never really wanna be the kiss you want to feel some justice there isn't no so ISM it's more than if it is the case then these people live the rest their lives the fact that they've done that and Karma's not always direct I just think there is always gonna be some comment like with OJ Simpson when he had he couldn't go to a I think almost thing comic and I think if you do enough [ __ ] things eventually something [ __ ] will happen to you but karma as people believe it I don't believe in karma I think I've known some of the nicest people I've ever known have had the shittiest hands in life some of the offs biggest [ __ ] about the best Sunday I don't believe in karma particularly I would love to sit you and be like yeah well eventually they'll get they won't they know their family but that's what I'm saying privately they were serious ways of working out I think sometimes it can be a thing but not every time it doesn't have to be one big thing you know it could be little things on a daily basis right you know you can't make a cup of tea because she had a cup of tea all those kind of things and I hope people have I know that this probably would have triggered it this is the thing there's a reason why podcasters youtubers avoid [ __ ] like this you're gonna piss people off your it's a serious subject it isn't funny it isn't light entertainment we make a choice as podcasters to tackle this type of [ __ ] and this is because you want this from us so you know apologies if we've offended people off we haven't handled it in in the most respectful way we do try to do it while keeping it somewhat entertaining but there's a reason why everyone else avoids the [ __ ] so just at least we're [ __ ] trying you know give her a little bit of leeway in the comments if you could let us know because I think there probably will be a short series of these yeah we love documentaries so we might as well give this keep going with some stuff like this I've also got so much stuff followed up from Michael Jackson I don't think we should do one follow up podcast dedicated to it I think in time give it a while the truth real world title because to be and also I'm what isn't helping Michael Jackson from beyond the grave is his some of his psycho fans who really don't like me very much after yeah I said things I also just think this embrace week people out there someone just sent me a clip of him saying how he's how he who is innocent you know but if you if you love Michael Jackson then just be nice to me then cuz I'm not being nasty to you personally I just don't like what he might have done that's true however every person is just a mixture of mixture of concepts and actions and things so if you love the theory of Michael Jackson and the theory of a person being good and pure and light then surely you want to explore whether someone actually did something terrible because actually you don't love Michael Jackson you love the idea of Michael Jackson and that's all but it is true jody podcast hopefully you've enjoyed it hit the like button subscribe if you like if you want some more yeah only that we more will see you again next week

Channel: True Geordie

Views: 2,700,391

Keywords: Madeleine McCann, Gerry, Kate, McCann, interview, documentary, Netflix, Joe Rogan, Alex Jones, David Icke, Maddie, crime, investigation, conspiracy, theory, Rob Gavagan, unsolved, creepy, shocking, serial killer, Ted Bundy

Id: DpJvln-Flco

Length: 98min 47sec (5927 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 24 2019