Air traffic control
versus pilots. Vistajet 868, hard right
turn, hard right turn. I need you eastbound for
SeaTac airport eastbound turn. Coming up! Hey, 74 crew! Welcome back! If you don't know me,
my name's Kelsey. I'm a 747 pilot. My channel 74 gear
is all about aviation. I really appreciate all
of you in the 74 crew. Thank you so much
for those of you who are sending me these clips
with Air traffic control and pilots. These would be really hard to find. There's
so many things out there on the internet. So thank you very much
for sending those to me. If you have one that you
want to see on this series, the easiest place to send to me,
Instagram or the free forum 74gear.com In this one, we have pilots trying to
negotiate a deal with Air traffic control. We have some pilots
that are crossing a runway where another pilot
is trying to take off. And of course, we've
got a funny one at the end. Let's get into! Tower Vistajet 868, holding short B10 and
we are fully ready for runway 32L departure. Vistajet 868, just verify your squawking VFR
and understand you are right traffic pattern? Right traffic pattern and affirm
squawking VFR 1200 Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868, runway
32L lineup and wait. Runway 32L, lineup and
wait and could you just confirm that you'd like us to maintain
1500' on the downwind Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868, affirmative the
pattern altitude will be 1500' Vistajet 868, runway 32L clear for takeoff,
make your right turn for the pattern at 1500'. There's two different ways that
the planes are flying around the sky. One is VFR: Visual flight rules. And what that means is you're not having to stay on a set
specific road in the sky, if you will. So when you're flying VFR, you can fly whatever direction you
want, as long as it's right altitude. And you know, you keep in
mind the different airspaces that you're prohibited
from flying into, but generally speaking,
there's a lot less rules. The other way is IFR. And IFR is what
you as a passenger, when you're flying on
a commercial airliner, we're flying IFR. So those are the
two different ways. So it's important to
understand VFR and IFR, specifically for this video, and you're
gonna understand why just a minute here. But that VFR, squawking VFR,
means you're squawking 1200, 1200 in your transponder. Your transponder is what
communicates to Air traffic control, and it lets them know
who you are, where you are. So if they see a plane
that's squawking 1200, they know they don't have to be on
any specific route or road in the sky. So it's important
to understand that. Listen here where we
mentioned squawking 1200. Vistajet 868, just verify
your squawking VFR and understand you
are right traffic pattern? Right traffic pattern and affirm
squawking VFR 1200, Vistajet 868. The setup in the beginning of this
video here is gonna make a lot of sense of why I'm explaining
in such detail of how this thing got so
messed up in the beginning. There's two other phrases that the pilot
uses here, and that's a downwind and base. Downwind, the easiest way I can explain it
to you is if you've ever gone to an airport and watch planes
take off and landing, they're kind of making a
racetrack pattern, right? So they take off and then they fly along
parallel with the runway they're landing at, but the opposite direction. So when you're flying opposite direction
of the runway, you're gonna land at. You're flying exactly 180 degrees
from the way you're gonna land. That's called a downwind. Then, you make a 90 degree
turn, that's your base leg. And then you have one more
final turn, which is your final. So that base leg is when you have
one more turn to come in to land. So downwind is 180
degrees, 90 degree turn, that's your base leg. Then one more turn
and you're ready to land. So it's just important to
understand those terms, because it's gonna make
sense why this was a problem. Listen again to
what he says here. Runway 32L, lineup and
wait and could you just confirm that you'd like us to maintain 1,500
feet on the downwind, Vistajet 868. So as you're going 180
degrees, you're on a downwind. You make a 90 degree
turn, that's your base leg. And then one more 90 degree turn
and you're landing on the runway. And that's why I always laugh at some
of these other are videos when they say: "Oh, he is making a 45
degree turn into the runway" Because when you go through flight
school, you make 90 degree turns. So making a 45 degree
turn is not a big deal. Now, you understand more
why that's comical to me. Now that I've explained
all the boring stuff here, you understand as far
as what the pilot is saying and what Air traffic
control is understanding is "I'm going to take off and fly at 1500 feet around
the airport doing a traffic pattern". Usually indicating that you're going
to just be flying back in and landing. That's what he's saying. And that's what Air
traffic control is hearing because that's
what he is saying. And that is where
the confusion starts. Listen to this. Vistajet 868, start the right turn now and
keep your downwind inside the lake at 1500'. We're turning in the right turn now
1500 and inside the lake, Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868, make it a hard
turn, remain west of the lake. We are at max
bank, Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868, thank you. You just maintain
that present attitude and fly the downwind. I'll call your base turn. Continue on down when
at 1500', Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868 in 1
mile turn right base. In 1 mile right
base, Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868 looks like you're
just over shooting final now traffic from SeaTac is
about 2 miles to your west expect landing clearance
on a 2 mile final runway 32L. We're departing to
the north, Vistajet 868. So you heard the Air traffic
controller got him lined up. He got the base leg and got
him lined up to get ready to land. And then, you heard the
pilot say: "We're departing". I think they said we're
departing to the North. Listen. We're departing to
the north, Vistajet 868. So essentially what he is telling
Air traffic control at this point is "I'm not planning the land,
I'm to keep going to the north" "Now that I've turned
all the way around, I'm planning to fly over the runway
and just keep on flying that way". Now, the controller
obviously did not know that because he's getting him
lined up to get ready to land and that's where
things get really crazy. Listen to this. Vistajet 868, hard right
turn, hard right turn. I need you eastbound for
SeaTac airport, eastbound turn. We're max bank
now, Vistajet 868. Traffic alert Vistajet
868, traffic at you 1 o'clock and 2 miles climbing out
of 1800 is a Boeing 757. I need you on the
north heading now. We're heading north
now, Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868, say
intentions again. Yeah, we're on a
departure to the north. Our destination is
Athens LGAV, Vistajet 868. Vistajet 868, we are not going to
give you your IFR clearance airborne. Do you want a full stop landing? Negative. Aren't you able to
negotiate? We're too heavy to land. We require to remain
airborne for the next 5 hours before we can reach our max
landing weight, Vistajet 868. I read online that the
pilot that's talking here actually had coordinated
with somebody on the ground that they were gonna do this
pattern and then take off to the north. However, the person
who sent me this audio, this was the beginning of
the audio where he is talking to Air traffic control in tower. Obviously, the tower person
did not know about this and I couldn't find
that audio anywhere. So if that's true, okay. But you heard the controller that
this person's talking to in the tower has no idea about that going on. And I'm about to talk
about that in a minute, but sometimes what will happen
is when you're at an airport that's near a very,
very large airport, the wait time to get off the
ground can be a long time. You might be in, let's say
Santa Monica, which is near LAX. You might have to wait 45 minutes
to get this IFR clearance to get out because they have so much
traffic coming through LAX. So the wait time is really
long for you to get out of there. So sometimes what will happen
is that pilots will takeoff VFR where there's no rules. They'll get up in the
air and get clearance. But usually, it's not somewhere
so far away like Athens. There's a lot of different points
that you have to write down along that fixed to Athens. It's typically not
what you'd wanna do. All of this could have
been avoided here. Had the pilot communicated with Air traffic
control, the guy tower that's in this audio and had they said: "Yes, we're gonna do a pattern but then
we're planning to depart to the north". Just to clarify and make
sure that he understands what's going on and
what their plan is. Then this all would've been avoided.
He could have coordinated all that stuff before these guys
got up in the air. But what he did is he just
assumed that that guy thought: "Yeah, okay. I know that I already
coordinated with the guy on the ground". If that did happen, "I already coordinated
with the guy on the ground so this is all totally fine. I'm just
gonna take off and do pattern works. And he already knows
what I wanna do". It's better to clarify
with somebody, if you don't have certainty that they understand
what's going on, it'd be better to clarify. Now, if I'm the controller based off of
everything that this pilot is saying to me, I'm not understanding at all that
you're planning to depart anywhere. I'm just hearing that
you wanna do a pattern. So I wouldn't think
anything different just like this controller, obviously
didn't know or expect anything different until the pilot said: "I wanna depart to the North and go
to Athens, which is a long ways away". Delta 300, hold short of runway
22R at J. What is the gate number? 22. Thank you. Delta 253, wind is 180 at 5.
Runway 22R clear for takeoff. Clear for takeoff,
22R Delta 253. When I was a new pilot, I'd
be talking to some old vet pilots. They would always say to me: "Yeah, I keep a mental map of everything
that's going on with the planes around me. And I know who's
taking off and landing and what planes are where". and I thought, "Man,
how is that possible?" There's so much things
that are happening. But as you get more experience,
everything starts to slow down for you. Think of it, kind of like
when you first start driving. When you first
start driving a car, it seems like, "Oh, we're going 60 miles
an hour or a hundred kilometers an hour". Things are happening
so fast right now. But the reality is after you
have a couple years of driving, you start seeing and paying more
attention and noticing things and, and being more aware and
things slow down for you. The same thing applies
when you're in the sky. So what will happen is when
you're new, you have tunnel vision. You don't really hear or see
everything that what's going on, but after time, you get experienced
and you get more and more comfortable and you hear and have
a better mental image or a better situational awareness
of what's going on around you. But at these pilots level of experience
at Delta at this stage in their career, they should have pretty
good situational awareness and listen to what's
happening around them. And if you listen
again to what happens, the air traffic controller tells
some pilots to hold short of 22 right. Listen again to this audio. Delta 300, hold short of runway
22R at J. What is the gate number? So those pilots got told
to hold short of 22 right. She asked what their gate was. And then later in the
audio, she says this: Delta 253 wind is 180 at 5.
Runway 22R clear for takeoff. Now, if you were paying attention and
listening to what was going on around you and you heard another plane
just got cleared for take off 22 right, you would drop the hammer or accelerate
really quickly or quickly transmit, "No, we're on the active
runway" or whatever but they seem oblivious
to what's going on here. And they're just
crossing the runway, not listening to what's
going on around, which is not something
you should ever do. But at these pilots
experience, it surprises me. But the controller also has
some responsibility here. When they tell you to hold short, you're
supposed to read bank to hold short. So she should have said,
"Hold short of 22 right" "What's your gate?" And they should have said: "We're parking at gate 22. We'll
hold short of runway 22 right". And had they not said that, she
should have insisted that they say: "Hold short of 22
right". But she didn't. So she has some
responsibility in this situation too. If you listen again, they just read back their gate
without the hold short instructions. Listen. Delta 300, hold short of runway
22R at J. What is the gate number? 22. Thank you. Sometimes, there is a
complacency at larger airports with Air traffic
control on pilots, because it's a certain
level of professionalism and they expect that you
would not make an error like this because there's two
people up there at least that are listening to
everything that's going on. And so usually what
will happen for example, is you get cleared
across a given runway. One pilot, who's taxing
the aircraft, will say: "We're cleared to cross". And the other pilot that's in there
will say: "Yes, we're cleared to cross". And that is a affirmation
that both of you agree that you are cleared
to cross that runway. That's typically what
happens in most airlines. So when they cross this runway, I don't know
what the rules are for Delta at this time, if they had anything like that. But they crossed the runway after
they get told to hold short of 22 right. They just crossed. Now, when I did some of those flying
videos at a smaller airport, for example, when I was at with Stella, the instructions were to go up and
hold short of whatever runway it was. And I read it back
a little bit shorthand. I said: "Okay, we'll taxi
this way to the runway". And the controller was like: "You're taxing this way to this
runway", like very stern. And I thought: "Man, they're really strict". And then I remembered,
I'm at a regular student airport, so pilots are learning
how to fly there. So they need things to
be very clear and precise. And they expect
you to be more exact, which is probably a better
habit that I should have, but they expect you to be more
precise on what you're saying, the way you're getting
to a specific runway. Because student pilots
get a little bit lost easier than a person
who's an airline pilot. So sometimes there
is a complacency because these types of
things almost never happen with controllers and
professional pilots. But at a smaller airport where
student pilots are kind of spun around as what direction and what runway
and crossing and things like that. They make those mistakes. You typically would hear something like
what happened here from a student pilot not from a professional
pilot at a place like Delta. Delta, Delta 300. Delta 253 is aborting takeoff. Delta 300, you were instructed
to hold short of runway 22R. You maybe said that, but I
also repeated back clear to cross and I'm sorry about
that we missed that. You absolutely did not Delta
300, what is the gate number? 22. You asked is that and I
also you said cleared to cross and I repeated that I
thought that's what you said. I said hold short of 22R and I
asked you for your gate number but Well, that's my fault. I misheard what
you said and repeated back the wrong thing. Delta 300. What
would you like us to do? Delta 300, continue A to the
ramp for now, monitor ground 121.9 Alpha to the ramp, 121.9 Roger. Delta 300 you still up? Yes. Delta 300, possible
pilot deviation. We need you to call the tower here.
Advise ready to copy your phone number. Now I've had some people say, "Kelsey, you're telling
people to be scared or nervous when they get told
to call the tower". You heard her say possible pilot deviation,
call the tower, blah, blah, blah. And that's because you're
typically told to call the tower, when you really mess
something up like this. You don't ever typically want
to get told to call the tower. It doesn't mean that it's gonna
be bad, but for the most part, there was something that didn't happen
the way it was supposed to happen. A lot of times you'll hear pilots
when they get up in the flight deck and they'll say something like, "I don't wanna have to
fill out any paperwork. I just wanna finish
this trip and go home." And that's true. You're not trying to have
to call Air traffic control. Talk to the Chief pilot, go to
management, do the carpet dance. You're not trying to
do any of that stuff. Pilots are lazy. I've
mentioned that a lot of times. We want to go there.
We wanna fly our planes. We wanna park our planes and we want
to go to our overnights and go have fun. So this is an example here of what
happens is getting told to call tower is not what you want.
Doesn't mean it's bad, but it's typically not something
"Hey, you did such a great job". "Give us a call. We
wanna talk to you about it." No. So I will give credit to the Delta
pilot here because once he realized that he had made the mistake, he owned up and took
responsibility for it and saying, "Hey, that was my
fault. I misunderstood." But then he said, he read back
saying that he was cleared to cross which he didn't and
you heard that as well. But he did take
responsibility for his actions. So I'll give him credit because people make mistakes. And obviously this was a mistake that's gonna be a huge learning
experience for both these pilots. And they will probably never ever
make this type of mistake again. But like I said,
this is so, so rare. And for those of you that are
nervous flyers and thinking, "Oh my gosh". This is so rare. And only the
rare stuff ends up on Viral debrief or Air traffic control
versus pilots. So don't freak out. This
is not very common at all. Now, as we always do,
we got a funny one. Listen up. Southwest 1774 12,000 FL190. Southwest 1774, Boston Center.
Roger climb maintain FL 400. FL 400, Southwest 1774. Boston tower 1774. We
had that breakfast buffet. We can only make
38. Is that Ok for you? Center 1774, I guess
that's fine. Maintain FL 380. 380, thanks 1774. I hope it was good. It was. See, I'm not the only one
who loves a free breakfast. I'm telling you,
pilots are cheap. If there's free breakfast, we're getting up
and we're gonna go get our free breakfast. And in some hotels, I mean,
it's an amazing breakfast. The place I'm at right now, you'll go down there and guys will be
down there for two hours eating there. It's just, it's a really
good breakfast. And if it's free, why not
eat as much as you can. So for those of you who don't know when
they're talking about these flight levels, the flight levels in the U.S.,
which is where they are. The flight levels are
above 18,000 feet. We switch over from saying
17,000 feet to going flight level 190. That's for 19,000 feet. And that's for every altitude
from the 18,000 up in the U.S. Every country's different. Some people transition
at a lower altitude. So this transition let's
say would be at 34,000 feet or 34,500 feet, for example, you would say flight level 345. So that would be how
you would say flight levels. And that's why he's saying flight level 340, whatever
flight level they're using. It's basically just the first
three numbers of that altitude is what you say
for your flight level. Now, speaking of free breakfast, if you wanna see some of the memes where
I talk about pilots loving free breakfast, check out this one here. And if you wanna see some more
pilots fighting with Air traffic control, check out this video up here. I look forward to
hearing from you. Until then, keep the blue side up.
