Air traffic control vs pilots. Where is this guy going? He's on the taxiway. Air Canada go around. Coming up! Hey, 74 crew! Welcome back! If you don't know me,
my name is Kelsey. I'm a 747 pilot. My channel 74 gear
is all about aviation. First, I want to let you all know
I really appreciate all the videos that you've been sending
me on this ATC versus pilots. I've gotten a lot that
have been sent to me. If you have one that you
want to see in this series, the easiest place to send
it to me is on my Instagram or onto the free
forum 74gear.com Let's get into it! 956P, do you have the automated
weather at Gillespie airport? Uh yeah. I got the information. 6SP was that you telling me
that you have the information? Cessna 956P, verify you have the
landing weather at Gillespie airport. Yeah I have the weather
information for Gillespie. Okay with your call sign, please. Do you have
the landing weather for Gillespie airport? Say again. 956SP with your call sign. Do you have
the landing weather for Gillespie airport? Say again, 956SP. 956SP, do you have the landing
weather at Gillespie airport? Yeah. I have the weather
information for Gillespie. Okay, I need you to tell me
that with your call sign, please. 956SP, do you have the
landing weather information for Gillespie airport with
your call sign, please. Gillespie wind... from... visibility 10SM wind from... 2 wind
calm and altimeter setting 3006. Flight 2521, contact
approach 134.0 34, nothing. Good luck. That actually continued on
even after I stopped this video. It actually kept going
on but you get the idea. It was just another
few minutes of that. Here's the thing. One, I understand from the
perspective of flying in another country, speaking not your native language,
speaking a second language. And missing and not
understanding some things. So that I understand. But and this is a
big, big but here. This is probably a habit
that this pilot has had and the flight instructor has
probably not corrected them on it. So in this scenario here, this
pilot should know what call sign is. So I'm guessing that they
have developed this bad habit of not reading back
things with their call sign. Now, I've done this
before and the thing is that it's not something
I'm in the habit of but sometimes
people make mistakes. They miss it or forget it. But when somebody says read it back with
your call sign and they remind you of it, something that you would
think they would pick up on. Now, you would think that a professional
pilot wouldn't miss something like that but as you're going to see
in a later video, it happens. And it starts with developing
those good or bad habits as you start your
flight training and as you continue
on in your career. The earlier you are in your career,
the easy it is to break bad habits. There are certain things that Air traffic
control is just required to get from you. Before they turn you over to the next
frequency or turn you over to the next sector, or let you go to
land or whatever. And if you're saying that you hear it but
you're not saying it with your call sign, then it leaves the
liability on them. So it's just a good habit to always,
always read your full call sign back and if you do that on every transmission,
people might get annoyed for some reason but it's just the safest,
easiest thing to do at all times. For myself when I'm tired, I
found that I make mental errors like forgetting to
read back my call sign, possibly confusing numbers or if
you get a bunch of things at once, you might miss something
or leave something out and that's just
been my experience. But again, I think this is
just a bad habit from the pilot and not the correction from the
flight instructor as they went through because I'm guessing this
is just a habit that he's in of just reading
back to transmission. And I think, this is my opinion, that this controller was super,
super patient to ask him and phrase it three or
four different ways to help him give that read back
and you heard that other pilot when he sent him on to another
frequency was this kind of laughing because, you know, it'd be kind of funny
to hear that again and again and again. 34 nothing. Good luck. The only other thing that
the controller could do is say: "I need you to
say it like this". But you know, at this stage in the
game if you're out flying by yourself, you should be able to read back your
weather of information that you're given and your call sign. And then, the other thing about
the weather he's trying to read it back but he obviously either
didn't write it down or he didn't
write it very clear. Gillespie wind... from... visibility
10SM wind from... 2 wind calm. So the controller really
made their best effort here. Now, you will see
at a bigger airport, they're a lot less patient when you
forget to read your call sign back. Something to know in this next video
is the pilot uses the word localizer. And localizer means that you're lined
up laterally to land on a specific runway. All right. Let's listen to it. Tower Kuwaiti 117 localizer 4R Kuwaiti 117 heavy Kennedy Tower. Caution
turbulence following heavy Airbus A330, runway 4R, cleared to land wind 130 at 6. Cleared to land
Kuwaiti 117. Thank you. Kuwaiti 117 heavy
reduced to final approach speed you are gaining
on the traffic ahead. Reducing minimum
speed Kuwaiti 117. Kuwaiti 117 heavy, do you have
the traffic on short final insight? Affirm. Kuwaiti 117 maintain
visual separation with traffic. Will do. Kuwaiti 117 heavy confirm
maintain visual separation. Affirm. Kuwaiti 117 heavy, you need to
say your call sign with the read back. We do have visual contact with
the traffic touching down now. Kuwaiti 117 heavy, go around. You're
not complying with my instructions. Turn right heading
100 maintain 2000. Okay go around turn right
heading, confirm the heading. 100. 100. Kuwaiti 117 heavy, turn right
heading 100 maintain 2000 feet. Turning right 100,
climbing 2000 Kuwaiti 117. And in the future sir, I don't
mean to give you a hard time but your read back with your full
call sign is mandatory for us. Will do. I know some of you will say that this was
overly conservative to send this guy around but these air traffic controllers have
parameters that they have to stay within, and this guy wasn't
following them. When the controllers say: "Do you have visual contact?"
or "Do you see some traffic?" or "Do you have the
airport in sight?" All that stuff, when
they're asking you for that, what they're doing is they're
going to transfer the responsibility from them over to you. So if you say: "I have
the airport in sight". Then that tells them: "Okay,
you're cleared for a visual approach". Which means I'm not going
to give you any more help, you're going to go
land on the runway. And in this case, what he's saying
is: "Do you have the traffic in sight?" And he's saying: "Yes, I do" but he's not
saying his call sign. So the controller can't
verify that it's the right guy even though it's
clearly the same voice. That it's the right guy
that sees the traffic. What happens is, on a visual clear
day like what I'm guessing this is, he's able to give a
smaller area of buffer, and so he says: "If you see the traffic, you're
going to maintain separation. The responsibility is
off me and it's on you" So if the pilot does
something stupid, the controller can say: "Hey! I told him to
maintain visual separation, it's on him". Now, the pilot had
another option here. He could have said:
"No, I don't see the traffic" in which case, he
wouldn't have had the buffer and the controller would
have sent him around. And after a long flight, he
probably didn't want to do that. And obviously, he saw the plane. He can see that the
plane was touching down. On that long read
back when he said: "Yeah! We see the
plane touching down now" Had he said: "Kuwaiti 117"
it would have been no issue and he would have been
able to land, no problem. But because he didn't say that, he kept closing in
on this other traffic and that became too close
without having the visual contact and the confirmation
from the other pilot, the controller really had no
choice but to send him around. I've talked about in earlier videos,
controllers will sometimes say: "Hey! There's traffic here"
and you can say you're looking. It's different. They're trying to point
out traffic just for safety so you know, so you're not
surprised, something like that. Another scenario that they're
going to try to give you a visual is "Do you see the airport
here? One o'clock." I talked about that
in another video. And if you say:
"Yes, I see the airport" that means, great
it's over to you. If you say: "I don't
see the airport" they're going to
keep helping you and getting you closer and
pointing out the airport until you see it. And you would think that an
airport, maybe eight miles away, would be so easy to see. How could you not
miss this massive airport. It's happened to me. There was one time, I was flying, there
was all these rain shafts I was kind of a newer pilot, and I was flying and I was flying into DFW
which is a massive airport. So we're flying into DFW
but there's all these rain shafts and as we're coming in they say, "Airport here at two o'clock" And I'm looking but with the clouds
and the sun and the rain shafts, I'm looking at the
wrong area and I'm like: "I don't see it" The other pilot's
like: "It's right there". I'm like: "I don't,
I don't see it" And then we turned like five degrees
and I was like: "Oh! I see it now". I was just thinking: "Okay, how dumb are you? Five degrees?
You couldn't look five more degrees over?" But anyway, it sometimes happens
that you don't see the airport. Usually, the other pilot will wait for
you to see it or help you find it or see it but if you haven't
flown into a new airport, sometimes especially
smaller airports or at night, it can be tricky to see. So the easiest thing to do, in
this case, if you don't see the traffic or you don't see the
airport, just be honest. And then in this case, he would
have had to go around anyway but if you don't see the airport,
don't say that you see the airport. You heard the controller
let the pilot slide at first when he said: "Do
you see the traffic?" and that's because in that case, it's
not an order, he's not needing anything. He's just asking if you see it. So he didn't read back the call
sign and the controller let that slide but then when
the controller said: "Will you maintain visual
separation from him?" And the guy just said:
"Will do" or "Affirm". That's not enough for the controller to
know because there's no call sign there. Listen again. Kuwaiti 117 heavy, confirm
maintain visual separation. Affirm. Kuwaiti 117 heavy you need to
say your call sign with the read back. We do have visual contact with
the traffic. Touching down now. So this could come
down to bad habits which I'm guessing at this
level of this guy's career, probably doesn't have
a habit of doing this. It could just be that he's
tired like I talked about earlier. It could be one
of those situations but it's definitely not a habit
that you want to develop and you heard that the controller was
giving him some slack in the beginning when he was saying:
"Yeah, I see the traffic" but when he needed him to confirm that
he was going to maintain visual separation and he wouldn't say
that with his call sign, he sent him around. Now, I have some criticism for
the controller in this video as well but before I say this, I've started to get some air
traffic controllers on this channel and I'm curious to what
your thoughts are on this but it sounds like the winds are
pretty calm and it's a clear day, in my experience, that is a scenario
when pilots start to relax more. It's clear, the winds are calm, everything seems chill. You're just a little
bit more relaxed. I don't know about you but
from the controller's perspective but do you see that you
send more planes around when the weather's bad or when
it's really calm and clear like this. Because when the
weather is really bad, everybody on the flight
deck is super, super focused. If the winds are
calm, it's a clear day, sometimes you're just
a little bit more relaxed and I've seen guys go
around more in that scenario than I do when things are really
serious, when the weather's bad. And things are...
the visibility is poor. Things like that. People are more hyper
focused in those situations. Which is funny because
from a passenger perspective, when the weather is terrible,
they're the most scared but up there is when
we're the most focused. And when the weather's
calm, we're the most relaxed. And the people in the back are also
thinking: "Oh! This is the perfect thing" but really it should be
hyper vigilant all the time. But the reality is that when the weather's good, you're
just going to be more relaxed. Think of it like this, if
you're driving your car, and it's just a clear blue day
and the roads are totally empty, you're going to be more relaxed. If you're driving around
and there's rain and wind and all kinds of
stuff happening, you're going to be more aware. It's the same thing when
you're flying a plane. Now, here's my
criticism for the controller. The controller just
sent this plane around. So that means, these pilots
transition from a pretty relaxed situation getting ready to land, you're all set up, you're all
briefed, you're ready to go. You're planning to land
in just a couple of minutes. You've been flying
for a long time. Everybody's ready
for their day to be over. And then, you send
them around which is fine. But here's the thing. Then, while they're on the go
around, there's a lot going on for us. We're in the middle of changing modes from
getting ready to land to doing a go around. Which isn't something
that we do a lot. So things are happening
very fast for us, we're reorganizing everything,
we're changing all the automation, we're making sure that the plane
is doing what we want it to do. We're changing our heading, we're
adding power. There's a lot going on. And then during that phase
of flight, you're telling him: And in the future, I don't
mean to give you a hard time but your read back with your
full call sign is mandatory for us. That's not the time to do that. Now, I've mentioned before, I don't like getting phone numbers and
you don't ever want to get a phone number but this might be a
different situation here. Had the guys landed
and then been taxing in and had the ground
controller for example said: "Hey, we just had a quick question about that
go around. Do you mind giving us a call?" There's two things about that. In that type of format, the pilots
are going to be a lot more relaxed. I mean, we're going
to call either way. You tell us to call
them we're going to call. But if you heard: "Hey! We had a question
about the go around. Would you mind giving
us a call once you park?" We're going to feel
a lot more calm than Hey! Write this number down and call
us once you get parked in there, right? Our stomachs are
gonna be dropped. Again, we're gonna
call either way but it's kind of like getting a
text from your girlfriend that says: "We need to talk" It's never that and then
something really good afterwards. It's the same thing. So that's just my
viewpoint from a pilot for the controllers out
there that watch this channel. In this scenario, if
you needed this to call that would be a much better way to format and phrase
that to get them to call and not be stressed out
or nervous or defensive once they start
the conversation. Now, before we get
into this next video, it's important to know Air
Canada what they've done, is they've lined
up, it's night time, it's in San Francisco and they've
lined up to land on the taxiway. So now that you know what's
going on, listen to this audio. Tower, good evening. Air Canada
759 with you on the bridge visual 28R. Clear to land 28R
Air Canada 759. And tower, just wanna
confirm. It's Air Canada 759. We see some lights on the runway there.
Can you confirm we're cleared to land? Air Canada 759. Confirmed runway
28R. There is no one on 28R but you. Ok, Air Canada 759. Where is this guy going? He's on the taxiway. Air Canada go around. In the go around,
Air Canada 759. Air Canada 759, looks like you
were lined up for Charlie there. Fly heading 280, climb
and maintain 3000. Heading 280, 3000
Air Canada 759. United 1 Air Canada,
flew directly over us. Yeah, I saw that guys. Air Canada 759, contact Norcal 135.1
will catch you in a couple of minutes. 135.1 Air Canada 759. Something that I was
taught in flight school and I'm sure a lot of
pilots were taught this, I'm sure my flight instructor
was taught this by his instructor, is that when you check-in on a
frequency and you say "with you", most controllers hate that. Listen what this guy says here. Tower, good evening. Air Canada
759 with you on the bridge visual 28R. Luckily, it's a
habit that I broke. I think I read this book that I was
talking about radio phraseology years ago and it was saying "Why
are you saying with you". The controllers
know that you're there. There's no reason for you to
say it. It's just wasted space. So if you can break that habit or
never start that habit, it's the easiest. There's no reason to say that. You could just say: "San Francisco tower,
Boeing 123 ILS 28 right", for example. That's all you
really need to say. If you start flying internationally and
you're saying things like "with you", the controllers over there,
when it's not their first language, may not know what you're saying or they're going to try to
figure out "What did he say?" I was talking to a new pilot and he
was actually asking me about that and here's the
analogy that I gave him. If you invited me over to your house and
I showed up and I walked into your house, and I said to you: "Hey!
I'm here in your house" You would look at
me and be thinking "this dude's so weird. No wonder
he makes YouTube videos". Obviously, I'm in your house. Why would I need to
say "I'm in your house"? The controller knows that
you're on their frequency. They have the
information on you. Why are you telling him
that? He has your information. It doesn't make any
sense. It's totally redundant. Now, onto the serious part of this
video, these pilots lined up on Charlie. They planned to
land on a taxiway. Now, when I put out the video about
Harrison Ford a lot of people were saying How could you do that? How could you make
such a dumb mistake? But honestly, of the two, this is way more weird and way
more serious than what Harrison did. Landing a general
aircraft, in the day, single pilot and
landing on a taxiway. Even though, he went over the top
of another plane is a lot less serious and a lot more easy to
imagine than happening than in this
particular scenario. There are so many things for us as pilots
to land where we're supposed to land, and the thing is that this
honestly blows my mind that two pilots can be up there and both
of them could be slid over onto a taxiway and do all the
things that they did. It blows my mind and thankfully
these other pilots, especially United, saying something to prevent
this from being an issue. Honestly, they saved
possibly hundreds of lives. Who knows what would have
happened but they definitely were aware and you're going to
see why in just a second. Let's talk about the things
that were there to help the pilots to prevent this from happening. First, you have
some approach lights. These things are
sometimes called a "Rabbit". But there's these lights that are
directed and line up on the runway. This is an example of
what a rabbit looks like. Now, I know this
isn't San Francisco but it just gives you an idea of
these lights leading up to the runway which lets the pilots know, this is the runway that
you should be landing on. Second, I pulled this picture off
my Instagram so it's a little bit blurry but very clearly you can see
as you're approaching the land what is a runway. It's very clearly marked
out all different colored lights. It's just another clue of
where you should be landing. Another thing that we
have on the flight deck and I always use this and I've
actually never seen a pilot not use this, is the same system that we
use to land with through clouds. We have that up in order to
land even on a perfectly clear day. I've never seen a
pilot not use this. And what that does is it
gives you another verification. So those little cross
hairs that you see. Those point you to the
very start of the runway. We use that when we're
flying through bad weather. But I use it and most pilots
use it, even on a clear day. Why? Well, you don't want to be landing on the
wrong runway for example. That's more common. I've seen where a pilot
line up on a wrong runway where there's two parallel
runways that are very close. They roll out onto the
wrong one and I go: "You're on the wrong runway" and they just kind of slide it
over a little bit to the side like: "That never happened". And most passengers and maybe air
traffic controllers wouldn't even notice. Because you rolled out a little bit too
early, you just kind of let it slide on over. So that's another
reason that we do that. And so, we have those
cross hairs there and that says, this is the runway
that you're lined up on. If you're lined up on
a taxiway, it would say you're not lined
up on the runway. So it's just another
check to make sure that you're landing where
you're supposed to be landing. Then you hear the pilots ask if
there's another plane on the runway. Listen. And tower, just wanna
confirm. It's Air Canada 759. We see some lights on the runway there.
Can you confirm we're cleared to land? So this means that they think that
there's other planes on the runway. Controllers saying: "No, there's
no other planes on the runway" but they're obviously
seeing something there because they're looking at the taxiway
where there are some big planes there. They're seeing some planes
and they just keep going. If a controller told me "No,
there's no other planes there" but I saw a plane that
was sitting on the runway, I'd be like: "I'm
going to go around" And have him probably
grab some binoculars or something and look out there
to see if there's something there. Because controllers
are humans too. They make mistakes. So if you see something that
seems odd, doesn't feel right, like planes. Very clearly, you'd see
planes and lights from planes and you'd see beacons and all kinds of other
things that would indicate there's a plane on that runway, you would go around. For example, there was a
plane that was facing them they would see a
green or red light or they would see things that
would indicate that is a plane. There are no beacons that are
sitting on the middle of a runway. So they would see
the beacon and go: "That shouldn't
be on the runway" So you just do a go around. But they ignored
that one as well. Here's what happened
to grab United's attention. Most pilots will be listening, especially,
things that are involving their runway. They'll be listening and having
what's called "Situational awareness". If you've been in a military
or a combat situation, they're going to
hear things like "Head on a swivel" or "SA" things like that. It's just kind of paying attention
to what's going on around you. And that's what's
happening here. When these Air Canada pilots say
"Are there anybody on the runway?" And that's a runway
you're about to take off from, your alert goes up. You go: "Wait, what?" And so they'd be
looking at the runway and then they're going
to look back at the plane. Because now something involving a
runway you're about to take off from you want to know
what's happening. For example, there's been times where I've
heard planes getting cleared for takeoff and another plane gets cleared
to cross that same runway. So when you're getting
ready to take off or land, you start really listening to the other
planes that are happening around you. So if you get cleared to land and then you hear the controller
clear somebody to cross a runway, that's the runway you're
planning to land on, you're going to want to
make that inquiry really quickly: "Hey! Are we cleared to land?" or that guy crossing yeah, he'll be clear
before you get there or whatever the situation is. So these United pilots were
obviously paying attention. When they heard their runway
and they heard the pilot say: "Is there somebody on it?" They looked at the runway to
verify also to help out the pilots because if there was something
that was on the runway there, they'd want to report that to Air
traffic control, to the tower and say: "No, there's something on the
runway. Send them around" or whatever. But they looked and then
they looked at the plane, and when they looked
back at that plane, they saw he was totally
not lined up with the runway. But they were lined
up with the taxiway. So would Air Canada have continued
and landed on top of those other planes and had a huge accident
there in San Francisco? I mean I would hope not. But they got
really, really close to landing on top
of another aircraft. Which honestly, it blows my mind that with all those signs
that they didn't do it. Had United not made
that call? It's possible that it could have been
a major, major tragedy. So Harrison Ford
wanted to land on Charlie? Obviously, Air Canada
tried to land on charlie. And you know, you would think
with the cancel culture out there, I'm pretty sure that in the next few
months you might see taxiway Charlie closed at all airports. For this next video, what
you need to know is that before we land at an airport,
we get the weather there. Don't worry about all the words, you'll know when the
part matters from the vid eo. Runway 27R, RNAV runway 27L approach
is in use, all aircraft landing and departing runways 27C, please use caution
numerous birds all around the airport Ground archer 2326V,
27R to Romeo to millionaire. Archer 2326V Sanford ground.
Turn right, taxi BK say taxiways. We want to say a special thank
you to whoever cut the ATIS or who was behind
the guy cutting the ATIS Made us laugh for about 10
minutes up in the air, 2326V. All right, thanks. My supervisor
made it but I helped out there. Which part? I'm glad people can
still have fun at work and get all the work done. If you want to see me having
fun on YouTube as my second job, you're going to want to see some of the
mean comments that people said about me. I put a link to that
video right here. And if you want to see
something a little bit more serious, check out this video up here. I look forward to
hearing from you. Until then, keep the blue side up.
