Piers Morgan Debates Oxford Student Over Gender Critic Kathleen Stock

welcome back to Facebook and uncensored Professor Kathleen stock as due to speaker Oxford University's 200 year old Tibetan Society next month but she's faced a furious backlash from students who say her supposedly transphobic views means she shouldn't be given a platform which is the same academic who had to quit her job as a lecturer at the University of Sussex after being targeted by activists for her views on gender identity Oxford University's Vice chancellor has defend his Stock's appearance as a matter of Free Speech but the university is braced for up to a thousand protesters and counter protesters to take action when she appears at the end of the month the Student Union is understood to have cut ties with the debating Society so there's a huge Rift now at the heart of Oxford University it all begs the question how exactly you're supposed to have a debating Society if you don't actually allow proper debate with people whose opinions you don't like well join me now is podcast host a comedian Constantine kissing professor of Sociology at Oxford University Dr Michael Briggs and Oxford student and trans rights activist rizz Posner well welcome to all of you uh rizz you're over there in Oxford um let me start with you you've been on the show before um I don't get this the whole point of getting universities you're supposed to have open minds hear views you may not like Channel manage them put your own views forward evolve learn what's all this censorship about yeah I mean effectively this is students exercising their own free speech right like she has been platformed by this institution students have consistently said we don't think she should speak here we don't want her hair because her views are part of a broader hate campaign and moral Panic that's really damaging the lives of trans people so students students have voted that they don't want her here in their college institutions in the student union and now the University have overruled that vote I also want to clarify something here The Su the Student Union voted to cut ties with the debating Society the Oxford Union not over this but over an extensive history of them um bullying harassing and just having like General bigotry racism within their within their institution so it's not over this nuanced issue it's about the history of the but on the specific point about Kathleen stock you tweeted this you've got some Effie nerve Kathleen you've brought your hatred into our community and now you use the threats we receive because of your actions to try to Garner more sympathy for your victim narrative Oxford doesn't want your bigotry here and will make it known now I've studied the Kathleen stock Saga I actually come from Sussex so I had a vested interest in my county and this University what is it about her that is so hateful what has she said or done that is actually so wicked yeah Kathleen has consistently uh well so what she does is she's a academic front basically for this broader movement which she has uh endorsed she's endorsed Percy Parker who has said horrific things that I don't think would be appropriate what is Kathleen's stock hang on what is Kathleen stock herself said or done to Warrant this treatment yeah I don't know yeah I understand I don't know if you've read her book first you consistently misgenders people she talks about whether like trans ideology should exist whether a trans people should be part of the lgbtq community um now her what she talks about is is part of a massive campaign against trans people and she wasn't kicked out of Warwick University she left because she was bummed that people didn't like what she had to say because it happened can I just yeah here's my point you see I have looked at what she said she says many trans women are still males with male genitalia many are sexually attracted to females they should not be in places where females undress or sleep in an unrestricted way self-id threatens a secure understanding of the concept of lesbian and so on she stands up for the sanctity of biological sex and I'm struggling to find out what is so offensive about all this it seems to me what's more offensive are young students who think the biological sex is a Movable Feast that can be denied and that's the science is to be ignored and that anyone can put their hand up and say they're anything they like and they have to be respected that I find more offensive than anything Kathleen Stocker said so that's absolutely fine if you find that offensive is the reality is as much as she exercises her right to free speech so do we the students have consistently said as I've mentioned before that they don't welcome her her hair and specifically the tweet that you quoted yeah but that's me honoring free speeches that's the opposite of free speech Yes what you're doing is opinions you don't agree with my argument is I agree with a lot of what she says I don't get it what you're doing is your business as a group you're behaving like a bunch of young fascists you want people only people so who toe the line to your world view and her worldview by the way could you just let me know when I can come back to those points all right well let me let me come through now let me come through okay Constantine this strikes me as right to the heart of the malaise and our Academia worldwide actually this world view I don't like this person's views even though they're not that controversial at all in fact most people would agree with them and yet they have to be de-platformed abused Brandy bigots blah blah blah this right here is the heart of this of this problem and let me answer the question that Riz didn't answer when you asked her what Kathleen has done that is so wrong is she's blasphemed against this new religion that says trans women are women and as you say the vast majority of the public don't agree with that and therefore students have to then become little fascist like you said and shut this down because they can't tolerate hearing and opinion that they don't like and so uh to the extent that they have power they're going to use it to bully people into not speaking in places that they can I'm grateful that the government pushed through the the bill which now means universities have to ensure that free speech is respected there it's very very important that these people don't win because you can see their smug faces as they do this no yeah and and they enjoy the power and they enjoy exercising over people and by the way I've interviewed counseling on my show trigonometry she's one of the sweetest kindest more generous gentle people that you will meet if she's hate full then we're all hateful well this is the point isn't it um Dr Breeze you've come here from Oxford University what is going on there because a lot of a lot of the academic people there now seem to be rising up against this and supporting the concept of Free Speech but that's causing a rift now in the University what's really going on well I think it's good that things have come to a head and we finally can debate about whether whether we could listen to the very mild as Constantine said the very mild views of Kathleen stock which really represents the uh the majority of British people now maybe not not the majority of students but even the minority of students have a right to hear if they should they want to hear Kathleen Stock's views and even people who are opposed to her like like Riz should go along out of the and and listen and just decide what why exactly what they disagree with what this whole concept when I've when I've taken part in the Oxford Union which I've done and the Cambridge Union and others I've always enjoyed it but I've always gone there believing it was my job to try and make people come around to my way of thinking which was an old debate I thought I was back at my old prep school for the first time in 50 odd years uh the other day at the weekend and I passed this old white house where the head Masters wife used to hold debating society when I was about seven or eight and that we were encouraged at that age challenge other views listen to other views formulate your own opinion and be unafraid to change it if you hear things which change your mind this is all just gone out the window so the problem is if you have a certain Identity or if you have a certain view then you can say I'm so vulnerable uh I can't listen to any opposing views that they even even now I kind of not listen but even the very existence of those other views being articulated somewhere you know within the within a five mile radius Catherine stock said anything that you see which would justify this kind of treatment no of course not no PS just to the point you made about you when you go and when I went to the Oxford Union about trying to persuade people and think about what would be the circumstances in which you wouldn't want to persuade people and you would want to shut down people who disagree with you the only circumstance in which you might be tempted to do that is if you know your arguments are rubbish yeah and that is why these people or if you're living in Russia China or North Korea right where you would then call the secret police and they would come and remove the person with the offensive opinion which was one that the government didn't agree with or whatever and they would be taken off to some Detention Center in Siberia I mean this is this is where we're heading this is what they don't get these students is that once you accept that you're allowed to do this to people who are perfectly mainstream opinions this is a slippery slope to do to totalitarianism right quite all right Riz we've can I respond to that you can respond to that you're a totalitarian Barbarian so you've talked about uh fascism fascism as a far right ideology about suppressing stuff uh to be clear this has been a consistent Democratic uh students have made this together from that point do you object to being called right wing yeah yeah absolutely I already mentioned that because when we invited the the president of Oxford University lgbtq plus Society to come on the program he replied I think he's a he um this is Adi haran dimmer do you know do you know that person [Applause] uh yeah and I'd actually like to talk about that that person did not come on your show because they have been subject to this consistent property that I've been talking about hang on I'm going to finish my point well that wasn't the reason given by this person who replied higher to my producer nice to meet you we're reluctant to work with right wing media so I'm not right wing I've never been right wing uh you're not right you object to being called right wing I object to being cool right wing so we found a point of consensus so the reason that uh other people don't want to uh take up interviews like this or be on platforms like this is because of the hate campaigns at least you have the gun should I just respond to some of those points peers well look here's my part I was paying you I was actually paying you I was paying you a compliment you do at least come on and debate with me right yeah because they don't want to hear someone saying something they don't like I'd really love to respond to that point so you mentioned uh that the tweet that I said in response to Kathleen now what you didn't mention is that Kathleen was responding to a tweet by Addie who you previously mentioned uh publishing a death threat that they received by one of her fans that's why people don't want to be on platforms like this now with regards to a debate uh first of all I don't believe that trans lives should be a debate but that's not in question here they weren't trying to put on a debate this conversation before no one's debating trans lives no one was debating trans rights to fairness and equality I've certainly never I've only ever supported trans rights to fairness equality but if you're gonna stand there now on television and and say that you believe what's happening in women's sport for example is anything but grotesquely unfair and unequal then say so if you genuinely believe it I think what's grotesquely unfair and unequal is the violence and hatred that trans people are consistently facing in the media in person in public and online as well wasn't my question is it fair that trans athletes are now demolishing women born with female biological bodies at women's sport is that fair yes or no this is a really boring point but I'm happy to answer just give me a simple yes or no that's not happening all right absolutely allowed to it okay it's not happening you're obviously not reading the papers you're not watching TV you are totally oblivious to the reality of what's happening but I didn't realize okay it's okay no problem ignorance is bliss right good to see you thank you very much um I mean again because it's the mindset doesn't even it wouldn't even consider the possibility that what's happening in sport and women's sport is is horrible because she has no idea has no interest only interested in the impact it's a religion piece I've said this to you before I'll say it again it's a religious worldview whereby your beliefs do not require evidence they're based on a faith right and that's how these people think so uh the reason I mentioned the the Kathleen stock what she's doing as all of us are doing is right because she thinks she's entitled to call this this woman Kathy's talk a bigot and so on and so on um I want to just quickly ask you about something else because you're a comedian John Cleese has warned that his life of Brian's stage show based on the movie shouldn't include a scene about a man wanting to be a woman and having a baby which is ironic given the subject matter we've been just it was funny at the time it's kind of ironic now uh but he even John Cleese feels compelled to perhaps remove that because it may offend people the concept of men of a joke about men having babies but we've reached a point where yeah there will be protests about that because it's offensive isn't it amazing because it looks like they're literally quoting from 2023 conversations in the satirical piece of satire becoming real life and what it shows you I think most of all how far we've come in this delusion I totally agree because actually not debris I mean that was deemed to be humor at the time because it was so ludicrous that nobody ever assumed that would actually be a reality but we've reached that point where satire's coming true yes yes indeed but I think though just to take up the point about the the religion I mean the reason why there's so much hate towards uh Kathleen stock is because she's a lesbian yeah because she's an apostate so she's part of the LGBT community but she's uh she's articulating a different View and so therefore she has to be she's much more threatening than than most people would be I saw a community called Freddie Quinn on morning TV Good Morning Britain today and he made the point there's a scene from that movie with a guy with a lisp does that have to go because it's offensive to people's speech impediments there's a scene with a character called incontinentia buttocks is that offensive to people with IBS it's the same with people with big noses is that offensive to people with big noses there's one about blessing the cheese makers do we have to reach out to a National Association of Dairy Farmers to see if they're upset by it and the truth is actually probably yes because somebody somewhere would be already getting the pitchforks out ready to blow their gasket about all these scenes being offensive until eventually there is no Life of Brian that and that's why I think all of us have to just ignore these people being silly which is what they're doing and say you're allowed to be offended nothing happens when you get offended nothing changes and the world does not start revolving well Ricky Gervais always says yeah he has a right to say what he says you have a right to be offended your right to be offended doesn't over overcome his own right to crack jokes uh thank you both very much indeed I appreciate should it

Channel: Piers Morgan Uncensored

Views: 671,748

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Id: ae3x22zzg9Y

Length: 16min 7sec (967 seconds)

Published: Tue May 23 2023