“Men Wouldn’t Go Along With This!” Professor Kathleen Stock On Oxford Union Trans Uproar

I really like to know who should be held accountable for the fact that we don't seem to have free speech on all campuses anymore again and again we hear of people who've got views that aren't apparently acceptable to the welcome being hounded out of a university campuses whether they are academics whether they are speakers at unions uh big protests uh threats of violence often they're called off often they are Uninvited disinvited well I'm delighted to say that is not what is happening tonight at the Oxford Union uh key part of Oxford University even the Prime Minister has given his backing publicly to the woman who is invited to speak at the Oxford Union tonight I'm delighted to say she joins me here right now Professor Kathleen stock good morning to you morning Julia thank you very much indeed for coming on the show I'm really delighted my first chance of getting to speak to you since you were handed out as University of Sussex for being and I hate this space gender critical as a feminist philosopher gender critical all that means of course is that you understand basic biology and don't think that men can magically become women and women can magically become men but you've been labeled I mean bigot transpho but you name it you face death threats you were handed out of your job no backing from your academic colleagues that you thought would had your back and once again you're at the center of a free speech route what's it like being Kathleen stock these days it's a bit of a roller coaster it's all right uh it I think it maybe looks worse from the outside than it actually feels from the inside so you know on a day-to-day basis I don't wake up and think I'm the most controversial person in Britain well this is the thing because whenever articles are written I'm always fascinated we'll write you know commercial views of gasoline stock your views aren't controversial to 90 95 of the public which is that as people can be very welcoming and accepting of of people wanting to wear the clothes they want and call themselves what they want but they don't believe that a man who wants to live his life as if he is a trans woman is actually a woman that that's not a controversial view is it well I think that just shows that controversy varies by uh educational background and region and money and you know a small number of people find that very very controversial and then most people I agree with you actually don't if you don't hear from them so often or they're too well for good reason because they see what happens to the likes of me and they get frightened to silence but I do think that most people haven't gone crazy and they don't think that just by declaring you're a woman a man can become a woman um whereas there are a small number of people who really think that's heresy and that's the ones but that's that's where we do get into the the trans activism which has almost become a sort of a I say an ideological almost a religious cult now in terms of you must repeat the Mantra a trans woman is a woman a trans woman as woman the focus is always interestingly on trans women very little talk Of trans men why do you think that is well I think that's complicated partly it's because I think the original activism was motivated um by trans women feeling vulnerable uh particularly vulnerable um from other men so that's why yeah the concern about safety was originally couched in terms of the the worry about trans women in male spaces the default assumption being that women should just budge up and and make room because otherwise males would aggress them I think that from the gender critical point of view which isn't is a bit more to be honest than just thinking that biology exists I mean we're also critical of gender stereotypes and yeah things like that but um from the gender critical point of view we focus on on trans women because they're male and because feminism traditionally focuses on males not because all men are awful or Predators because as we know sexual assault statistics show that uh the vast majority of sexual assaults are carried about out by men on women so we're worried about that so that's although those statistics change given the the rate of uh of rapes and sexual assaults we keep overhearing are now being recorded as by women when when they are actually by men who are now claiming very conveniently usually after their uh arrest that they are actually trans women um let's talk about what's happening tonight there I mean there's a documentary um actually on Channel 4 tonight which you've contributed to gender Wars looking at this big sort of polarized battle you're also speaking at the Oxford Union society this is debating Union at the heart of Oxford University um and you're invited sort of a question answer session people can come you know you're going to be interviewed I'm assuming students will get a chance to ask you questions as well and you're very open to have that debate but as we've often seen um over lots of different issues but particularly over this many that we've had trans organizations within the university and and you know the GT LBGTQ plus Society is saying oh no this is awful she needs to be disinvited she's shouldn't be allowed a a chance to speak um they were told they're going to be protesters we've had threats you've got the backing of the Prime Minister you've got the backing of the University authorities to speak now they've backed down after initially perhaps not being very supportive do you feel confident that you can be safe when you speak at the Oxford Union inside the union building and before and after well I'm confident that they've really thought about it I should say the Oxford Union is not part of Oxford University it's been historically independent but it's a big part of the University sort of Life culture it's very good that they the officers young officers have really put their necks on the line really to invite me and I dare say they're getting a lot of flack for it and I think that's incredible but um the people in charge are very competent and also point out to me things like yeah well we we host the Israeli Ambassador we've hosted very controversial speakers in the recent past and they had the American Secret Service in their last week I believe so they know what they're doing and I hope I believe that they will take care of that and I'm trying not to think about that that's all for having to even think about that that's the concern um I mean the Prime Minister has said you have a right to be heard um he urged students to engage with your views even if they disagree with you he said to tell everyone that a vocal view must not be allowed to shut down debate a free Society requires freedom debate we should all be encouraged to engage respectfully with the ideas of others universities should be an environment where debate is supported not stifled um and and this is this is a key thing isn't it I'm sure you know when you were at University as an undergraduate when I was the idea that if someone had views that you disagreed with that you would try to stop them from speaking that you would try and Hound them out of their job people would have thought you were mad did you I mean that would have been a really strange thing that now seems to be the norm on campus what do you think changed yeah I think there was always controversial speakers on campuses I know I wasn't trying to hound them out because I could barely attend lectures or get out of bed let alone get the energy to go and protest someone at the union um yeah I think what changed is a lot of things a lot of anxiety um being raised in the young adult population partly through anxiety about careers and competition partly through parents getting much more involved in universities uh through their children's education because the money is now a lot that they're paying for and they're worried about the future so it's become much more like a customer base and universities are competing with each other for students so they are much more concerned with um appeasing their customer base I'm trying to get good scores exit scores when the students come out and rate them uh and this all of this has generated an atmosphere where universities have become really quite timid in pushing back against youthful idealistic illiberal attempts to shut down speech they don't like you know I don't think that's probably that new but what is different is the way that the authorities now um really don't know how to handle it because they give in to it don't they well often we know the academics the university Chiefs that themselves agree with it why do you think that people who disagree with you trans activists who don't necessarily represent the average trans person um why do you think they are so scared of both hearing what you have to say and of debating you because if they're so sure of their ideas and their is why do they not want to debate you and you know win the argument well some some trans activists do the odd one does but in general I think I'm afraid I think the answer is that um when trans activism took this turn about I don't know eight years ago to move towards self-id and trans women or women full stop no debate I think they basically tried to get there through emotional manipulation and they don't really have arguments because I don't think there are that many arguments that could justify how someone could literally change their their sex or some basic fact about them just by saying something so there's not really much you can do and so that what you can do is say that the person who's disagreeing with you is a bigot and a transphob and hates trans people and shouldn't be allowed to speak now that's very effective in in having a one-sided conversation because the other person then can't participate on equal terms so that's what has happened that's what stonewall's basic approach to this has been and they are in universities doing well a lot of universities are paying Stonewall to give them advice on how to have lgbtq plus matters as a lesbian I do not feel that represents me but um so that's that's another part of the puzzle the way that activist groups have got into HR departments and are basically sending out propaganda through University channels indeed and I wonder how you feel about we've talked about you know Council coach Council of people but also cancellation of of women as a whole I mean one of the reasons why I I object to this ideology and it is a political ideology it's the idea that being a woman is a figment of a man's imagination I can absolutely be welcoming and respectful to any man or woman who wants to live a different life that we I want to live in a country where that is okay for them to do but not if it means that women as a whole are canceled we've seen again and again we had you know Nike sports bras being advertised online by a trans woman a biological male intact with no breasts we've seen this weekend um always making Sanitary products they are their brand refers to girls in their latest literature as as bodies with female sex organs that's all we are we're bodies with female sex organs this isn't just about individuals like you who speak out being canceled losing your job being forced out and people trying to stop your speed this is also about half of the species being told we are just you know bodies with female sex organs as a feminist you know how does that make you feel well it makes me feel enraged and it's made me enraged for years um that even people calling themselves feminists are going along with this you know and it does I'm it does make you think that there's something misogynistic here the way that um for instance sporting bodies have just capitulated in the main to letting male-bodied people beat women on absolutely unfair terms the way that uh companies think this is an easy win somehow to just change the language to dehumanize women and make them into so weird body parts um it's it's really worrying and it can get put together into a story about attacks on women well this is it because it doesn't happen it doesn't happen to men we don't see products aimed at men there was a little swimsuit aimed at women the other day that was being advertised you know but by by Adidas um but with a six foot two male with you know penis and testicles and chest hair for goodness sake being advertised to women we don't see that happen with male products why not well I think partly it's because men won't go along with this and I'm afraid to say a lot of women are going along with this because they're being told that it's a kind and inclusive thing to do and also they can boast about it some of them you know they can get sort of points uh amongst their peers for looking like extra extra radical um unfortunately if women weren't going along with this as they are this would be a lot easier to get rid of well you're not going along with it I certainly haven't been going along with it are you an absolute heroine an awful lot of people that I know I wish you good luck tonight I hope you are safe I hope you get to how you get to have your say people need to hear your views which aren't controversial at all they're what most people think thank you very much for being so brave and speaking outstanding your ground and good luck tonight Kathleen stock there a philosopher and writer not controversial at all to us sane majority

Channel: TalkTV

Views: 174,811

Keywords: debate, free speech, freedom of expression, live, live news, news, politics, talk radio, talk radio live, talk radio tv, talk tv, talk tv live, talkTV, talkradio, talkradio tv, talkradiotv, talktv live, uk, julia, julia hartley-brewer, jhb, woman, women, man, men, trans, transgedner, transgender, transwoman, transman, trans debate, gender debate, gender, clash, oxford union, kathleen stock, stock, professor kathleen stock, oxford, trans activists, trans ideology, gender wars

Id: w75i-65HDqY

Length: 12min 55sec (775 seconds)

Published: Tue May 30 2023