Norman Mailer Thinks Muhummad Ali Was Unfairly Treated | The Dick Cavett Show

my next guest is certainly one of the most colorful figures around he a lot of colorful you just can't do anything except be colorful this one happens to be a Pulitzer Prize winning author he's been proclaimed a genius by his colleagues and even by William F Buckley at one point he and mr. Buckley and Mario Pro Cochino have one thing in common none of them is mayor of New York City I speak of the undaunted author and filmmaker Norman Mailer [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] reading zone I worry we following our stay on this point nothing about 15 minutes of it yes I'm glad you called me a genius because I agree with everything that Muhammad Ali's said yeah and you need credentials in America if he will pick your head yeah it's lab rate on that would you well you know it the toughest thing in American life is that if you don't succeed he don't listen to you as carefully not as true in all life that's even true among the Hawaiians but yeah but nonetheless if you don't succeed then they don't listen to you so that's why everybody American when they're young want to succeed in a great rate because it means they then get listened to then if you succeed and you insist on moving forward without bowing and every particular place you're supposed to bow like the presumptive candidate for governor in New York State mr. justice Arthur Goldberg is doing if you don't bow at every place you're supposed to bow well then you start losing those credentials that you've gained okay you know I'm gonna work tonight I came on the show because you can reputation that you never have to work on your show oh is it right yeah that you're such a harvester follow that you just keep passing the ball back and it's right I'll get better than they are it's true I just messed it back I'm gonna have to come on and talk in a comic vein after Muhammad Ali has stated some unpleasant but your refutable from my point of fact did I say anything that surprised you did it was it clear that what I was objecting to was what I think is a misrepresentation of a kind of mythic idea that every race but the white race is unholy I know buddy I would sit the white race has had more success at murder than the other races I don't know you know if you added them that way this is pointless to sit here and defend an entire race they think or even to attack one don't you well my favorite notion you know is that that the devil is the most beautiful creature that God ever created so people who believe that whites are beautiful are in trouble by if they if they take that notion into account tell me we mean by the devil is he a real presence I know we get into discussion like this on television you know what went on long enough the devil has not come up well the devil has not been mentioned on this show so far I know in this series so I'm glad to have you bring it up well friends there are people who say that you are the most beautiful post and commentator that has come along and late evening television in the history of late evening television so by that measure you might be the double funny that you should mention this if I disappeared suddenly now wouldn't you faint no that audience and I say you see you see see what just happened yeah I say impressed with that no you follows an electronic trick how's your movie coming listen Matt talk to me I would love to because all the time and I would like I like it when my guests have intercourse with one another oh there's nothing wrong with that that's a we're not fundamentally built for that but uh if I could disappear I think maybe I would but this is too interesting to miss yes please speak with mr. I was not after a cheap black boy well that's if he'll speak to me I don't know I won't I came here to pay my respects to you to not believe or not that's why I want to come on after you thank you and nothing to do with main event I figured if I came on first and you came on after me I'd be nothing but your flunky I'd be sitting in that chair over there and I'd be smiled everything you said and and just working in a way I don't care to work so I figure I come on after you and pay my respects to you I think you got the worst shake of anybody in professional athletics in the history of this country [Music] and I'm prepared to say why and I think that that that when America gave you that bad shake they hurt themselves far more never hurt you and they hurt you plenty they hurt themselves more I likes I'm sorry I just like seeing one thing but I should have to say I'm not hurt at all well sir my respects see if you're not hurt at all you're a strong man if you're not hurt at all I'll say that cause even champion can get hurt by what they did to you that's that's the truth when you're not dependent on nobody and not relying on them for nothing then they can't disappoint you that's true so I'm not relying on these people you're talking about and I was I depended on him law was their God my God so I'm not really you know I don't miss him they don't miss me are you saying there was a time when you were hurt but you've gotten over it or that it never hurt what hurt hurt by what by the fact that you're not able to continue your my title was so called taken it's a really honor it's a blessing that they did and see we have a sin you cannot please God and the devil - so I'm pleasing God well I'm gonna despite the fact that we're green on most things I'm gonna cost and if you please the devil and if the devil loves you then something's wrong with you then God don't want you so anybody who's doing the right thing will they catch a lot of Hell from the opposing opposition so it's really nice when I'm rejected - and rejected there and not wanted here then I have a good feeling spiritually because I'm right if I wasn't right then they would accept me well did you ever hear of a white philosopher named Kierkegaard no he had a idea that's a very painful oddest most painful philosophical idea I ever heard and was painful religious idea I ever heard and what it is is that you cannot know if you are morally good or not in other words a saint can think they are a monster evil and they can be a saint or they can think they're a saint and they can be a saint an evil man can think he's a monster evil and indeed be evil or evil man can think he is saintly and be evil though as you cannot know your own moral nature you but only what you do it is the I'd say isn't as profoundly you the quick word he uses would be cynical but it's the most profoundly disruptive idea in Western civilization so does it do any good to try to decide whether you are moral you know I would say it's no good if you believe God's or mark than it does no good at all to spend one minute thinking about whether your moral nature is good or bad you do what you do and you will serve as the agent of a lord or the agent of the devil and you may not know who you serve for others may have a very powerful idea of who you were serving for I said I came here to pay my respects to Muhammad Ali and I also said that America has suffered far more then he has from keeping him taking his championship away from him and then keeping him from being able to fight and regain it or prove that he is still champion I've never lost it he said that he is not suffered at all that is his remark and I am NOT gonna here to argue with it I mean it is his life not mine but what I will say is that America this I can talk about America's suffered a great deal because they took your channel ship away from you because if the people who love prizefighting when Muhammad Ali was the most exciting prizefighter to come along possibly in the history of the heavyweight division and certainly he was the most beautiful fighter and come along with a history of the heavyweight division and the great question was was he a great champion or merely an extraordinary beautiful boxer and a man who had very interesting powers when came to hidden because he could knock people out with a punch and people lived with these questions they're very important that we have any people in the population many many people don't even vote lived with these questions and they took the championship away from him and kept him from fighting it kept people from being able to answer those questions and and so people moving around for years saying could claim have beat so-and-so could Muhammad awliya beat so-and-so would so and so have been able to beat him and so on and so forth empty idol questions when a country moves along with questions that can't be answered they're just wasting their own potential fruitless questions are the death of a nation [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] you

Channel: The Dick Cavett Show

Views: 260,879

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Id: vVU72Vz3jVU

Length: 10min 16sec (616 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 12 2020