Lester Maddox and Jim Brown Get Into Heated Debate on Segregation | The Dick Cavett Show

governor let me add let me just ask you this right straight out what do you understand racism to mean or how would you define that or segregation would you say you're a segregationist yes and I believe in my term Oh Lord my definition of segregation [ __ ] see and that is a segregationist a person that loves his race enough or all the races enough that had enough of racial pride and integrity to want to preserve them and I think a racist is one that doesn't care enough for his race or another race to where they would don't care where they're Malcolm made it as destroyed or not then could I ask the government for school yeah are you familiar familiar with the black Muslims in this country not too familiar with them though well they practice black separatism well that's reading I'm not familiar with it but to continue along that line do you feel that what they're doing is right you know they believe that white people should be separate they believe that they should have a state in this country I think they felt that Mississippi Georgia should be you know one of those two states you'd be the state thinking maybe I'll make it New York no I think I think that force racial segregation is criminal and unconstitutional and I think force racial integration is criminal and unconstitutional I think either one of them is cruel you mean on a social level any level if a boy it's poorest well we do have like the laws you mean when the laws are enforced that if it involves integration than it is wrong if it forces people against their will against denying them their choice the memorator to integrate this should be yes is wrong if the law be just as wrong to force them to integrate is that would to be to force them to segregate well that's if a country can finally get to the point of saying well you're going to hire this person you're going to promote this person you're going to serve this person or you then the country same country can come round around until you've gone even got to work with person you've got to eat with that person you've got to be served by that person and this would be cruel and wrong but if so it is when it tells another person that you've got to do this well the laws of the land tells us all what we have to do basically that doesn't make it right well I agree with that main court goes outside the Constitution that doesn't make the Supreme Court right does it don't you believe to have an affluent society we've all like chose to live in a society together don't you believe that to preserve that society that we need laws laws of the land that's why we have a society and we cannot make exception to these laws just because a person happens to be black or white don't post of these laws because we don't abide by the laws of God though and so we we try to we try to go against the laws of God and against the laws of nature and we say well you're inferior and you're not going to be able to meet with success in education or in their social life even in your religious life life unless you do it with another race and this teaches in fear art did it mean I was getting wrong in his criminal and it's cruel to teach any one person that he is inferior to another race or his race is inferior but as governor of the state of Georgia did you go by the laws of God about the laws of the state I go by the laws of God in by the laws of states as you see fit what what is [Music] when you say it's it's morally wrong integration I believe that's what he said or segregation or forced integration racial integration are for state or racial segregation they're both morally wrong cruel and then violation of United States Constitution which is the law of the land not the Supreme Court ruling that no denies the Constitution you know you ever assume you know dr. Billy Graham sir I said I said you know dr. bill yes sir he was here last night and he said that racial prejudice is also morally wrong would you would you agree with that well yes sir I think all racial prejudice is wrong yes we have with our governments probably practicing more prejudiced today than ever practiced in all the land some wars between the black and whites mm-hmm there was a quote that you made on the fight in Miami that Muhammad Ali participated in with Jerry quarry and well not in mine but in Atlanta but black people always felt that Atlanta was the model city of the south because of its integration and because of the participation in economics of black people and your statement on the day of the fight was something like this that it's a dark day in Georgia because this fight is being put on now the law of the land said that a man can participate in his particular profession unless he is in jail I felt very happy that this fight took place in Atlanta how did you feel about that very say it and why was that here's a man that said well here I want to fight in the ring for money but I won't even wear the uniform of my country he says that I can't do this but if other words I'm gonna act different from these other people who stand up for their country and put on the uniform it had they not fought for this country I say we're not even fighting the day and wearing this uniform that he could not even get in a ring and fight and be a free man there wasn't a true he's happy to bring tear down this country with this philosophy with this belief suppose every American must bounce boat every American had decided that they were not going to put on the uniform of their country not fight for we wouldn't we wouldn't have a united we wouldn't have a United States of America and I couldn't be on your show and you probably wouldn't even have a show this is nice if everybody had had that attitude I don't like it I don't care whether you like it don't care who don't like it I did serve I did serve my time which of course I was a little before Muhammad Ali and I was not maybe as intelligent as he is because he was the first individual I think in this country that came out and said he had nothing against the vietcong I think there were two other politicians in the country that made a very similar statement later the late Bobby Kennedy came back from Vietnam and basically said the same thing at the time it was not a popular stand to make but today it is a very popular stand in fact we have a lieutenant that's on trial now for certain things that happen in Vietnam but I am saying that this man followed the law of the land he made his stand he has been fighting through the courts he has gone to the higher courts and he will go to jail if he is proven guilty but I think he guilty and I finish can I finish don't you feel that whenever a man goes through the courts that he is abiding by the laws of the land and that man who is willing to stand up with that decision is a brave man regardless of what his beliefs might be I know a lot of southerners who you know really like black people and you know they portray themselves as being really segregationist and they hate black people and so forth but I know some black people claim waiver I don't know I don't know any southerners that don't like whites others don't like blacks do you know of any can you name I'll tell you something I'll tell you some making your name one no I'm gonna answer that question it's an interesting point yeah yeah they like black people but they like them in a role you see they like them when they're very humble and they're very loyal I like people where they'll write a black guy don't you I know but you see all you people people to have the choice you see it's only a matter of choice I want black people and white people to have choice all mixed up trying to twist it around no no I'm only trying to agree with you would you let me finish if you don't tell the truth well I'm only making an alibi an analysis really it's not a matter of truth or false what I'm really saying is that basically history has proven that during the days of slavery whenever a slave was more or less humble he did what he was told that he was in good favor was with the master but whenever slave was too educated if he became aware of his own self and he wanted to become more than the master wanted him to become then he was a bad slave he was then put down because he represented a threat to the already established kind of white society let me say this those situations are true with white people and black people now you're just trying to point it in fact people only because there's been discrimination black against black black against white white against black and white against white there always has been there always will be you know your dicks not going to whack for that and Supreme Court's not going to wipe it out you're not addressing it you're not addressing dick no believe it or not I don't think that integration should be the number one thrust of our civil rights leaders anyway because I think what we're really talking about in this country's economic development of black people because I've found people while we're talking about can I give you a question can I give you do you mind go ahead if you're ready I'll give you that okay go what I'm really saying is that there are some people that have suffered in this country poor people generally but let's say that we have various ethnic groups in this country that have attained a certain kind of equality black people are more or less along with the Indians on the last rung of the ladder can I finish can I finish okay do you mind together now what I'm really saying is that I feel that the way to bring about equality of black people in this system is there many white people don't interrupt you have time you keep our and black people off the if you interrupt McGovern I can't talk to you just don't talk about black people don't include all people I try to include all people you don't you know you're interested in the black why don't you tell these people that in in the Atlanta Georgia where you keep talking about the South that percentage-wise won't black people professional business people industrial more I'm in our state has elected officials and any other date in the country can I interrupt it'll be all right go ahead okay say I'm not really here to fight with you I'm only trying to have a discussion with you and I'm trying to use to tell me and a lot of people out there watching you and I want you to be fair about all people not just black people we had a lot of people in this country I can understand that but you do know I have a reputation right and I saw you bring that state trooper back there you know behind the curtain I know you brought him back there for a reason all the other governors in the country care one in this and they required in the state governments that the governor's have security first you don't wear the black one of them I didn't even know you would be here it was a surprise when I came here tonight man you wait I've never traveled anywhere in the United States since I've been governor no other drug has traveled without one security personnel some of them have three and four I carry one man as an a not as security governor maddox good are you afraid because I came up here with an ease I've forgotten what my voice sounds like governor I don't want you to create the impression that you were trapped in any sense that I mean there was it's been known for some days that mr. Brown is gonna be here we didn't actually trap you did we in the coming in I want you to know that I didn't know he was going to be here but it wouldn't make no difference because you you invited me and I accepted the invitation yes but he said somebody I know his reputation I don't know Jim Brown who is Jim Raynor let let me introduce you [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

Channel: The Dick Cavett Show

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Keywords: The Dick Cavett Show Talk Show Musician Celebrities, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, United States, USA, race debate, racism, lester maddox, maddox, lester, lester maddox (governor), lester maddox sexism, segregation, georgia, government and politics, usa, desegregation, selma, truman capote, Racial segregation, politics, debate, heated debate, head to head, jim brown highlights, jim brown nfl, trump jim brown, jim brown actor, jim brown movies, jim brown kneeling, jim brown and trump

Id: TAMWsWvcbtg

Length: 13min 14sec (794 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 20 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/zombiesingularity]

Just a reminder that the anarchist & liberal mantra of opposing "authoritarianism" is outrageously stupid and useless.