Men, Sex, and Kevin Samuels

hey Santa names how are you okay so we're here not testosterone uh here on this episode uh it's Preston Perry so we have Ezekiel and Preston here because one they're going on tour together um what's the name of the tour what y'all doing that we need to talk to her yeah okay what's that about what y'all talking about because men don't usually talk so what do we talk about that's exactly it I I think the tour basically is was curated to address a lot of the the stuff floating around in our culture uh about relationships about one men and women relationships but a myriad of topics but I think ultimately what we want to what we want to see is that I I believe and we believe that it it is a huge attack on men and women relationships and I think um one of the reasons why is because the enemy doesn't want the world to see God through how we love and treat and see one another right and so we want to bring a lot of these issues to the Forefront so that we can give a Biblical perspective and help people see man this is this is more of a gospel issue than we think it is um and so uh we're gonna talk about a lot of different things so eloquent when you describe that I appreciate that I want to go shut up I want to go so yeah that's basically what the tour is about um in the nutshell so we have known Ezekiel as long as we've known each other so what's that 2009 we all met on the same night yeah you're welcome guys yeah um 2010. I think it was 2010 right yep 2010. yeah I did my life as a stud press and did soul ties you did did you do all almost safe yeah wow and I was so jealous why I don't think I was jealous I wasn't jealous actually let's be clear I was jealous of your second poem but I was impressed yeah and intrigued because I was like he's like a rapper poet guy yeah you know I literally that's what I was tell us about that well I I was Battle rapping in high school and I was asked to do a spoken word when I did not know how to do spoken words so I just did what I could do I was an admiration of Spoken Word Christian spoken word so I just gave it a shot that night and I actually joined the Rings If you guys but it is it is dope when you think about it because um essentially I was start of all three of our Ministries because this ministry that he's working with they had this big big event in LA and they would pick the top three poems of the night and our poems your poem my poem your poem was was picked yeah and that's essentially how we started to travel across the country that's it and became friends think about that no marketing team no nothing that was literally spawning videos off YouTube and saying we want you all around the world and we're getting booked like every weekend yes so which is so scary we was getting paid about it we were just going to random churches yeah we invent these people we was getting paid fifty dollars honestly you gave me gas money I just think it was so Divine who would have thought I I want to say this because I'm in front of y'all and we on mics I know like I I am so grateful that I befriended and even on the creative level have been able to be privileged to perform and be connected with you guys and I consider you guys some of the greatest lyricists poets and teachers of the word of God in the world oh the fact that like that like God saw no God saw fit to use us in that particular time and connect us because just because he used us and we're in the same place that's true doesn't mean we had to be connected and I want to give you your problems we appreciate you for giving us money because no what people don't understand so Ezekiel created it poets and Autumn tour that we did I don't know six or five years and that is what helped us buy this house hello that is what helped us like get a start when it comes to even like owning a rental property like you helped us make money wow I mean we gave the gospel and stuff like that but like we wanted a house and so we we appreciate you yeah praise God so yeah God used you we don't need you no more so if I ever needed a place to stay yeah I got I got through the lives like Leno and all them people Jay Leno yeah all them yeah I'm sitting on the corner because I'm gonna interview y'all right because I'm not male I identify as women yeah I'm kidding that's offensive uh I am a woman and so I just I just want to interview y'all created as a woman oh come on this is 127. I just want to talk through just masculinity fatherhood manhood Kevin Samuels whoever um peace is debatable but yo I'm just saying everybody goes to heaven we're not Universalist but in God's Great kindness he is able to redeem anybody yes anywho so what is what is on y'all's heart as it relates to men masculinity I'll just I'll make the umbrella very wide what is on your heart hmm you want to go first I just want to say man um I think it's really important that we're having this conversation I think from afar a lot of people look into the lives of Preston they look into a lot my life and see our families and see us thriving and we are thriving I'm not going to put our quotations on that we're thriving we love our wives and you know we have our struggles but whatever the case may be from the outside looking and it seems like it's easy seems like we we understand it I think for the most part we're figuring it out yeah however I think it's really important that we put our ears to the heartbeat of the culture to the men and to the women and and understand what's actually happening right now because I feel like there's extreme attacks happening and the more we disconnect and find comfort in the nucleus of our families and in our marriages and with our kids will be more disconnected from what God is calling us to and I believe he's calling us to his kingdom to build specifically men as men and to share our experience to share the insight and wisdom as we figure it out as he's giving knowledge wisdom and I look at you as somebody who is extremely wise and I believe God is granting us wisdom and if we don't actively pour in two men in these in this particular pivotal season I think that we're being grossly negligent and irresponsible with what God has given us yeah yeah I agree um those last couple of months I've I've really felt a burden um to pour into the lives of young men more because you've said it uh we've said it before but I really believe that there is an extreme attack on men um to displace us to confuse our roles as Leaders to discourage us from being in community making men feel misunderstood about their their call even in their spiritual gift in this and just even relationally like you know men men you know have communicated to me that they've felt torn down that they uh you know in churches when they are not ready to get married they feel like man like it's almost like it's an indictment on my character because I'm not ready to say I do to somebody uh and so it's just so many things that I feel like we go through because you know um God has called us to to to to to be leaders and so you know the enemy knows you know if you wanna to attack a family unit or even a body you cut the head off the snake and so uh yeah and so I told Jackie I had an event in DC um last week and every single guy that walked up to me was either crying out for discipleship one one guy came to me and literally said I asked five people to disciple me and they all said no and then he started crying and he was like you talk about discipleship and I follow you because you talk about discipleship but nobody would disciple me another guy walked up to me and said uh uh he just got married uh and he doesn't know what he's doing his wife got pregnant on a honeymoon like we did and he said but I don't know no solid churches and I feel this spiritual pressure to get my my family in in a church so he has all of this burden as a leader right and so a lot of times these guys be out here really stressing themselves out um and yeah it just it just they they look for other things to to relieve that stress because they just need help and so I yeah my heart really goes out for for married men you know single man all men really I'm wondering y'all have you've been in Christ your whole life you've been in Christ about 15 16 years oh six oh when you examine I guess even the landscape of of many of the men that you have conversations with one are they your age so are these struggles dependent on per generation or is it just kind of like across the board it's across the board it's across the board yeah with that it is there do you see like the I guess the culture shifting in a particular way like even when you think about the discouragements or The Temptations or the fears are they the same fears that men have always been dealing with or in this era culturally is there a different intensity to it was I'm ignorant of it yeah what's crazy to me is I I feel like my men audience publicly has grown um in a particular type of way because I think we all initially get the same audience where we had like black church and that was older man we have the older generation and the younger generation and then me and Jackie start doing you know other things but then when I got Bo TV when I started to do evangelism videos men kind of star my my main audience grew and that's when I started getting all of these younger guys coming to me and I'm like yo these men out here are struggling you know and this not even just we say culturally I'm thinking like because I have white guys white men like it's not even like you know black churches I don't even mean black I mean you know like for example even among women one attack might be you know you have to modify your body in such a way to be a people oh okay I don't think that was a thing in 1991 right oh yeah and so is there a particular like cultural oh okay that men are being like subjected to I think it's the disease of social media social media has is uh benefits but I think social with the benefits it we've been exposed to so much more and so there's this com comparison uh issue that a lot of men are dealing with to see men that are young and successful or see people projecting success projecting good marriage projecting Perfection it intensifies that pressure like oh man when they find out our ages it's just like dang I'm 35 what do I got I don't got no kids I don't got this going on and so it intensifies that and on on top of that it also kind of heightens this desire for more and not in a not in a way that it makes me say like you know no one should want more but it's almost like when the world opens up in a way like that back in the day in the 1940s in your neighborhood if you saw a beautiful woman that would be the one beautiful woman you saw for six months now it's like there are millions of beautiful women wow and they're getting with regular guys and so it's like my eyes start you know my eyes don't cease to be open it's just like okay so I gotta do this I gotta Flex I got and so we're getting all this information and we're being bombarded by wrong information so I think confusion yeah now is at a high yeah because I think what social media has done social media has made because social media really hasn't created a lot it just made everything loud and made everything just like in your face and so like men we have a lot of options but I think a lot of men are being compared to unrealistic expectations who's doing the comparison like when you say that what do you mean one I I think when so I've seen particular sites or particular Pages where if a standard is presented on social media you see a slew of comments like that's why these men ain't out here doing this so this is not a real man and that's one thing I hate okay I hate when people would would take one thing that a man does and not make them a real man as if you can Define who they are by one action right God defines us as men like one and so not the culture not sure standards like God gives us that standard and so I I think you know you know and I think the same thing can be said about women I think social media allows people to pull from these sources and then compare men to what they think men are through social media and it's just like no like what we need to learn how to be men is in local communities of discipleship not through social media so I think social media just makes things really loud muddy and I think a lot of men who are not discipled can be affected by social media in that way by listening to voices in the culture um who's telling telling you who you are from afar and not listening to people in close proximity to build you up you know and I think and that's a good point because every man is being discipled yeah but what voice is discipling them yeah yeah if you're bombarded with all of these messages you're going to form some type of ideology you're going to form some type of perspective of God which is a theology based on these multiple voices and so if that is not like I'm getting these same voices I'm on the same social media but I have discipleship which allow allows me to filter the voices that I hear but if you don't have that filtration system yeah and you're being discipled effectively by poison yeah because when I talk to men lately it's just like you you're coming to me with all these issues but I wonder how much of these issues have you learned from within the context of your local community and how much you have you gotten from the toxic stuff in this culture maybe you need to get off social media you know what I'm saying and really find somebody who can walk with you but to answer your question on another thing another thing that men have told us lately uh is they feel like they're that that the the culture and Society is trying to like over feminize men um they feel like um I don't know if you remember the conversation we had with the with the galaxy of the other week but they was just like you know one I think there has been a uh over emphasis of therapy of men sharing their you know uh their personal feelings but they feel like a lot of women in the church um you know uh what's the word give a crutch to what what they were kind of basically saying was it feels like the church is catering to women and ignoring the voices and needs and concerns of men that the messages are catering to to women the theology that is being preached is catering to women and almost kind of marginalizes men which almost forces them into the arms of this red pill community that says finally we're being heard yeah finally someone is speaking to my pain because when you hear someone like Kevin Samuels speak you know that he's been hurt and he's been jaded in some way yeah and so for every broken man that wants to get it off his chest and I've been I've been there too man a girl that really did you dirty and now I can form an ideology and understanding that that speaks to my pain like I'm going to navigate to that because the pastors is not speaking to my pain um all the everyone else that has these ideal release relationships on speaking to my pain so why not someone who finally says yeah you're not all that yeah you shouldn't be rejecting me yeah you shouldn't have uh you know did me dirty and so it makes it so much easier to gravitate and let me say this real quick but let me say this real quick one one reason why I think this this was possible is because I think people started to catch wind that if you can even in the Christian Community if you can capture the heart of the female audience you can make a lot of money you can be very lucrative everybody knows that the female audience Buys in and they're committed right especially in the church and so I think a lot of men started to feel like man like they know if they can if they can cater to women in this way that you know the women are the highest consumers of books women are the highest consumers of a lot of like even our poetry event our tour it was what 65 70 women right and so I think P I think some men have felt like because of that like you know a lot of times the church has catered more to to women than they have to man and I think in some ways that argument is is you know um there's truth it's understandable right and I think it's some truth to it I think the reason why you know the the whole red pill community and these men voices have been so popular is because it catered to hurt misunderstood men who felt like the culture and Society was stripping their voice away wow right and they was able to disciple these dudes in a lot of toxic ways to be quite Frank but they still felt heard it reminds me of Hebrew israelism it's like if I can appeal to the young black man in America who who uh who's a who's frustrated every time a black body pops up on it on the internet uh I can feed them our truth because it appeals to their emotion even at the expense of truth I think what's really intriguing about that perspective is that hypothetically speaking if the church is primarily catering to women it it could be also because women have statistically been the church's primary audience because statistically speaking women usually make up more of the church membership than men do that's true but what's intriguing about it is that most men are the pastors and so I I guess my question would be what even is the reason that men aren't a part of churches because the Nation of Islam doesn't have a problem getting men but I just had a conversation last week with a man who was he's the leader of his Men's Ministry and he was like I men don't want to join they don't want to participate they don't want to be active he was at glory and he was like your women are so excited to be here I have to beg men to come to Bible study because they feel like if I just came to church with my wife that's enough and so maybe women are being catered to because women are more thirsty is that wrong I have a lot of thoughts I want to hear it I want to say something about it before I think the nature of women allows them to be attracted to the model of the church and the way the church celebrates and idealizes the the person on the stage and the person on the mic I think in that type of scenario we need to pay attention no right pay attention to Scriptures it says there are parts of the body that require the type of attention that the scene Parts don't require and I think we missed that to recognize that men are drawn to places where they feel valued or another word for that where they feel needed if I go into a space and everybody celebrates the pastor they listen to the pastor I come in and I can disappear I could die and nobody would know and so I'm not needed here in fact the reverence and respect only goes to one place I think if we as a church as a people men and women begin to recognize that it truly is a body and pay attention to the giftings when a man comes into that place how can he serve how can he be recognized as an individual that is coming to contribute value into this place even if he never steps on the mic even if he's never seen could the church incubate and uh create forms where that men could be used and recognized see the scripture talks about recognition in the sense that there is a special attention there's a particular type of of care or or attention or reverence that goes to the part that is less seen and I think we got that wrong in the church that's it repels men trust me let me just let me just say this so that I I agree exactly what Ezekiel said but I also think that we may underestimate how much men want Community right because a lot of times a woman can go in a church body and and be excited about the worship to be excited about you know uh the the past to preaching and and this it there's an excitement and I want to I want to I want to make it seem like women are just like emotional right because I I think a lot of women in the church love the Lord and love the body right but I think men want connection men want more more men want discipleship and Community than we think but I think our our churches we don't cultivate those type of environments right and so for example the the same guy that I talked talked about that came up to me after my show in DC he said they start going to a church and he was like his wife still loves the church but he doesn't want to go to a church why because no man in the church want to disciple him right so it's not like he doesn't want to go to the church he wants to be the he wants to learn right and so the way God is wired men God has wired us to be leaders God has wired us to think in a certain way and so if we're coming into an environment and the church is not equipping us to learn how to be men inside of our home what is the need for it we don't care about worship we want to we want to learn how to be men would you say that when men come into bodies and these are all I don't want to generalize because I'm sure there are local bodies and local communities are doing this very well but I think would you say that the men that get attention are the men who are gifted communicators yes usually yes okay yeah for sure the men that yeah I had that in my brain so I'm glad you you said give the gift gift to communicators are those who are celebrated in in church atmospheres well singers the the worship leaders and the pastor the pastor yeah the communicators yeah that's it you know and then some coaches the armor bearers are like you know second in command or whatever but then men are just there a lot of men are just there and so like even the the young man he wanted um he wanted discipleship you know I'm saying so now if you look at him and his his marriage he may look like one man another man who who doesn't want to go to a local local body but I actually he's looking for something deeper and that's why I think that we need to identify the men in our churches and I think the the weight of the responsibility falls on on men it says like how can we pay attention to to the to the needs of these men and also you know how how can we come alongside them and disciple them and women how can we incur like I don't want to just just leave it up to men to disciple man but also leave it up to the to the women to not flirt with the first guy that you feel is is cute when you come into church but to to just speak life into that man let him know like you're valued in this community you're needed in this community not to stroke his ego but to encourage him right because a woman's voice is very powerful well maybe what a would a woman could actively do is be a bridge to connect that man with other worthwhile men for sure and so instead of you being the primary source of encouragement that's cool but he needs a brother yeah he needs a father in the faith and so it's like me actively saying hey I've seen you here for a week like you want me to connect you with my my friend or my husband or whatever whatever but I think that becomes hard when you don't even have a church body where that's a cultural yeah ideal that's what that's the problem I'm gonna let's just be honest in this we're in America we are chasing the dream chasing the hustle most people simply it's not in our nature to see a man that comes in and says I'm about to take this brother under my wing and I'm going to encourage him and I'm going to consult with him and he could call look take my number call me anytime we're not doing it bro let's just be honest I think the problem is not that them call me about it at least that man can identify the lack and his need yeah most men don't desire discipleship because they don't know that that's what they need yeah they they're feeling and they're trying to fix and medicate self-medicate with their vices and so the dude that's out there smashing these women needs discipleship but does not know he needs it come on here and so how do you deal with that well there have to be men that are actively pursuing these men and I I truly believe it falls on those who know it falls on those who are equipped and this is why you know I started this whole Band of Brothers thing the whole idea behind it was I started off me trying to do relationship stuff and trying to match women with men and I realized it was collapsing why because it starts with men knowing who they are yeah before I don't even want to connect a woman with a man that doesn't know who he is yeah so I was like okay my focus needs to shift on these men but to develop these men so that they can chase after men and at this state that we're in it ain't even one-on-one anymore if you if if you have some type of clarity and you're learning and you're being discipled you need about 10 yeah in about 10 young men that you're pouring into that's that's where we're always that desperate I I told my wife uh last week that uh the Lord had been telling me to to disciple this particular young man that's in our life you know him or whatever and I was avoiding it because I was like I just don't wanna I just don't want to disciple nobody right now nobody else you know I'm on the phone with such and such dealing with his problems and you know I mean yada yada yada but I just felt like the Lord was like no like till axis dude do you want um to do you want me to disciple him or whatever and I did and he just got emotional and it also just made me feel bad that I didn't act sooner I was like I should have been asked this dude but dudes want to be discipled and I think that if we develop a cult I know I talk about discipleship a lot because I think that God wants the church to to to grow a culture of discipleship I think if we develop it we'll see a lot more men in the church we would you know what I'm saying and so I I you know I think we just need more deception what has the Nation of Islam Hebrew israelism and red pill Community is that what it's called yeah uh what are they doing right that the church isn't yeah so the Nation of Islam their whole goal I mean the like the Nation of Islam looks completely different than the the American church when you go in the Nation of Islam Community the men are at Center and the women are kind of in the background um in a lot of ways and so like in the church it's the pastor and then it's like all of these women you know and so like they just do a really good job of instilling dignity worth uh they're net they feel like they're necessary for their Community um you you you met the the Nation of Islam people that I've been building with by our house um on the way um from church um and this man is 23 he's by a house he's out there every single day you know Pat um selling Bean pies passing out fruit and every single time I'm by the Walgreens I'm talking to this cat and every single time I talk to him he talks to me about the the state of the black man in America and how the Nation of Islam is the only thing in the world that has given the black man a voice that's what he believes he believes that the Nation of Islam has given the black man a voice to be leaders in their home leaders in their Community right and in a lot of ways let's not cap they are they are leaders and and and they lead well they J they lead well in the sense of serving their Community okay right and so when I'm over there by Walgreens with Walgreens I mean the lady that he's helping to their to her car every single day looks at him as a leader got it right yeah right looks at him as a as a as a pillar in this community the whole time they're giving somebody a false Jesus right they up there with signs saying that Minister Farrakhan is the new Messiah yeah right and so I think that's the problem when the Christian Church do not do a good job of building up leaders we make other religions look like they're True by the way they build up men wow and so I I just think that it's it's it's it's an attack of the enemy it's really strategic and to the church's defense it is real easy to build up quote-unquote leaders when you serve a false god I don't think the spiritual opposition is nearly as much right they don't have that spiritual warfare aspect so what we have real demons like oh they have the real gospels don't go out there they sound bro right yeah we're gonna we're gonna really go out to their man right and so but I do want to point out the fact that man we need to pay attention to how Minister Farrakhan is on The Breakfast Club low-key like like being a voice for the hip-hop generation because he connects with these these these these rappers in a way that a Christian Pastor doesn't it's a form of discipleship um that that that if we just learn how to how to tap into in the Christian Church Christian Church can be really powerful if we focus on building up men in a particular way and it can't be a subset like it literally has to be our Focus to call back men because with the breakdown of men you have the breakdown of the marriage and you have the breakdown of the family you have the breakdown of the community and thus the breakdown of the church and so we want to see the church Thrive and we're fighting to to feed the the leaves without addressing this root cause and I think this like you said it's a spiritual thing for sure the enemy has historically biblically attacked the the boy yeah in scripture and for for what reason because we know that that God has called that man to be a leader to be a pillar to be a backbone in the community and in the church so I think it should be a 9-1-1 like we all need to put our hands like women can't sit back and say yeah get these men together nah it's like we all need to be praying yeah we all need to be rallying and we all need to be celebrating these efforts making noise about these efforts and creating culture around discipling men it's important and then this is the reason why I'm excited about this tour and this is not to plug the tour but if it does plug it great but uh the reason why I'm excited about this tour is because I think man we are going to address some toxic things in the culture concerning men I don't I don't I don't want to um act like we're not but it's not going to be a place where men or women are torn down at all amen but I I do think men need to stop hearing how how much they suck right and I think they need to to know that man some of the ideologies and some of the some of the things that you adopted from the culture is problematic but man here is how the Lord wants to shift you and I feel like if we can point them to to a a body uh in the community they can raise them up I really think that we'll see a lot of men be encouraged because I don't think what men need is only correction I think that they need to be corrected but also built up in the faith and I think that this tour would do that when we point out because I I think a lot of times we see the issues but we don't see the the root manifestation of these issues yeah and so that the root manifestation is that not these men are trash these men don't want to commit these men are bogus these men are this it's no it's deep hurt it's deep woundedness it's deep deception it's deep you know Pro all of these issues that I feel like we never get to the root cause and so you know men just hear how much suck suck suck because people are only focused on the manifestation of a lot of the foolishness that they're putting out there and them not going to church but they're not getting to the nitty-gritty like why like why do you feel rejected why don't you feel important and so I feel like this tour is going to do a good job of getting to that and how can we build them up and how can we have the church come along stop being to to make them feel like they're wanted in the community that's good so Kevin Samuels uh when he when he popped out I feel like he kind of and I could be wrong but it feels like he opened the door for a lot of podcasts a lot of content that feels hyper masculine and by I mean hyper masculine I mean inordinately um unbiblical kind of this this establishing of leadership in a way that feels like you're Superior yeah or dominant in a way that doesn't look like Jesus and I can I think listen to y'all I can see how that is appealing because it's so it's a way to re-establish dignity and Leadership that may not actually include gentleness and humility right so I guess my question would be can y'all Define for us what masculine leadership actually is so that people have a vision for it which also also corrects even wrong Visions or understandings of leadership that aren't right does that make sense what I'm trying to ask yeah you explain that really well I don't you just don't answer the question um one like what are they supposed to be looking for because if they got all these options in these Alternatives like some men might think that's authentic leadership for you to be in control of everything that your wife does and for her to not have any say about what she wears or where she goes when like that's actually abusive yeah one one I want to just say this I'm not saying that okay so I'm not saying before I answer that what what uh like biblical masculinity looks like I want to just address the Kevin Samuel saying and before I say this I don't want to I don't want to make it seem like that if you're not married and leading a home that you cannot give certain advice right um that you cannot point to man in any in any aspect right but when we look in scriptures one of the qualifications of being a leader in the church right of voicing the community right uh Elder right it's being able to lead a home well means wife children and then that's how we know that you have the the right qualifications to be a voice in your local community your church Elder right um and I think a lot of times when when we hear men don't listen to what a man says listen to what a man models and Kevin Samuels wasn't even married first of all right so he wasn't even like he didn't even show us even through social media that he knew how to lead a family but he was told he was he was pouring he was pouring all of his this marriage advice right um I think I don't know the man personally but it seemed like out of his woundedness and so a lot of wounded man FL flocked I believe to Canvas Samuels because he catered to their woundedness which was automatically problematic right which he probably said some true things right and people oh that was true class theology is always going to be sprinkled with a little bit of Truth what um but I think the the the main person to look to look at is Jesus and Jesus wasn't married but he was the son of God so he right yeah right and so he was he was married to to us his church and I think what Jesus did Jesus came and modeled christ-like sacrificial love that was both gentle and firm when he needed to be right um and so he was he was kind especially when he treated the way he treated women and so when Ephesians 5 tell us to husbands love your wives like Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her I say this all the time Christ loved the church before the church loved him and he modeled christ-like sacrificial love even when the church rejected him and so I think what what what christ-like um masculinity looks like is it is it is both lion and lamb um it is both firmness and gentleness and so it is not it is not one extreme over the other it is not being overly you know uh uh emotional um and it does not be an overly domineering not being domineering at all it is like how can I lead my home how can I be a leader in my community by one leading by example by loving people in a gentle and a kind way and allowing my voice to be heard and gentle and respectful ways and so I think a lot of times in the culture is he the one side of the extreme you have to be extremely passive to be accepted by some or you have to be extremely domineering to feel like you got to be accepted by women you should teach but but I think Jesus came and balanced and showed us this this this this this beautiful balance of of of correcting the Pharisees being firmed with truth being being bold and how he how he uh proclaimed his father but at the same time crying when last like weeping will Lazarus died right showing this vulnerability in this in this in this in this this openness right and so I think he balanced both of them and so I think when we look at Jesus we see that God wants us to be both this lion and lamb uh in a beautiful way and I think uh one of the things that was beautiful man that was excellent one of the things that has risen in this whole red pill understanding is finding women that are easier to manipulate to control yes a lot of men are being pushed they call them passport Bros if you guys know I'm introducing all types of stuff they're saying hey women in America are difficult go ahead go across the seas and find a woman that will cook clean and will never talk back that will allow you to get other women because they understand and having multiple wives is part of routine you've never heard of that right yeah I've heard of that you ever I think I I told you about that yeah so men want like maids so he's not Partners even though beyond that extreme let's just scale it back that was triggered I'll put it like that yes they do okay but be let's let's scale it all the way back to to men that have been broken period want to deal with the type of broken women that don't challenge their own Brokenness that don't mirror their own Brokenness in a way that challenges them but rather caters to their broken in a way that makes them feel Superior or allows them to avoid or Escape um what they need to do to step up as a leader and so I mean we've we've heard it all before there I mean can we go there yeah yeah okay I know what she's gonna say go okay so there have been a lot of uh men that saying you know what I'm not even gonna deal with black women they got attitudes they talk back or American woman or general Africans I I was told when I married my wife when I first got with her there was one of the ladies in the church saying you let your daughter I mean you let your son I'm sorry you let your son marry an American woman how can you do that she would don't she would divorce him because there's this understanding that hey look American women are difficult they run to divorce and all this stuff and so while there may be some truth to some of the things that they're saying the idea is that connect yourself with the type of woman that provides the least resistance as possible that would be the most acquiescent to your your issues to to to abuse like that will stick with you no matter what and historically even at African homes I don't care what the dad did Mama stand with them and so that's this idea like go across the seas because you're not going to find a person that's going to stick it out in the marriage in America so it's this idea like I love that you said that man in Scriptures it tells us that Jesus Christ died for his church while we were yet sinners so we're dealing with a problematic situation and Jesus leaned into the problematic situation and that is the challenge for the leader for the disciple hey are we are we looking for the least resistant yeah that makes us less like Jesus yeah so go ahead yeah yeah I have a question with that though yeah because I wonder if someone could hear you say that and be like oh so you're telling me I'm supposed to just go after difficult women then right so what is what is what is the wisdom what like practically speaking if he's supposed to reorient even his pursuit of a woman or to have a type what is he supposed to do if not to go after women that you get what I'm saying yeah what I'm saying what I think great question I think don't hinder who God really has out there has has what am I trying to say don't hint don't hinder or stop the the person that God really wants you to be with because you're looking for something easy one because marriage is not easy right A lot of times people say we want to be Sanctified we want to be made in the image uh we want to be performed in the image of Jesus Christ and not really realizing that God is going to take the most intimate relationship to do so and so when you look for a yes woman what you're saying is I don't want to be like the Son of God who came to love a difficult church that's exactly what you're saying because the church we're we're a mess right but God has committed to us and so if you want to go out there and so and this is the reason why a lot of men end up marrying somebody who's a maid but not a friend this is the reason why she's she's washing your clothes she's doing everything that she you want her to do but you don't want to talk to her she's she's she she she easily irritates you because you don't even like her that's what I want to get to thank you for going there you don't even like her bro I've talked to several married men who told me that they don't like their wives I asked them well are you at least friends with your wife you're like friends I bet they do I bet they do everything for them though they do everything for them though can I say something you make enough make enough money to marry a maid I mean so to hire a mate I mean and then marry a friend right if you want if that's what you want and so what you really want is somebody to cater to your egos at your Brokenness your Brokenness yeah because you didn't get that to Jesus go ahead go assist um I have thought it a bit interesting that I I it does seem like some men enjoy men more than they enjoy women but they they marry women because they're supposed to but they're affections their time their energy their vulnerability yeah is giving space for for men more than so that that's a thing there's multiple uh answers like do you like hanging with your buds well some of them some of them and I'm not saying they're gay I'm not saying they're gay some of them might be yes for sure but I but but I I want to yeah you wanna you wanna tackle that first there are multiple things that are going on there but I think a lot of times people are are don't understand that marrying a friend is important it's really important to marry someone who can walk with you marriage is a journey if you can only tolerate her in bed if you could only tolerate her to look at her in photos or to touch her physically you're going to have a hard time dealing with some because you're not going to feel romantic all the time and I don't care how high your sex drive is you're not having sex 24 7. you got to pay bills with this person you gotta raise kids with this person you gotta have conversations with this person you gotta walk with God in and out of the in the ups and downs of Faith with this person if you can't tolerate them to sit down with them look them in the eye and say homie I can we just talk as friends let's put you know lay our Rings down real quick and just I need to talk to a friend right now if I cannot find that in my home that's a very tragic situation that's really good but cannot but can I also say this um man I so much that I want to say right now but I'm a reel it in I want to say this too like I I think I think people don't understand how emotion like men are are emotional creatures for sure we're very emotional loud creatures right and what happens is when when when Society tells us that we have to look for a yes woman to marry that's not a friend that we can express ourselves to right and so we look for that in in male groups and and like and so we can it doesn't look overly emotional but it is right right it's like let me go invent because I can't do it at home and so this is the reason why I love that I have friends who who knows I love y'all but y'all don't come before Jackie wow y'all just don't yeah and I know he doesn't come like if me and him have plans and then Kiana call I won't even get mad like I know dudes listen I know dudes who who get mad at each other when they go do things with their wives I'm like if that's not the most what yes nah bro like bro man you always but it's never like it's never like overly well that's kind of even the thing where they'll say like you soft because you talking about your wife yeah or you yeah they they they they mask it as oh you you always talking about your wife are you always caking oh bro you don't want to hang with the boys it's like no like we don't even do that with one another no if we if we got plans and you and you come to me and be like Kiana want to do I'll be like oh I understand yeah because I know that's your best friend that's my homie but it's more than just wife though oh yeah it's their friend His companion yeah everybody knows you're my friend yeah and so like I'd rather be with Jackie than any of y'all Negroes wow I thought she was gonna say the other one I was I would have said it if he wasn't doing a podcast is the same way yeah you're the same way I'm the same way I'm you know what I'm saying and so I think that that like people don't under I know he beating the dead Horsehead people don't understand the significance of marrying somebody that you like and then when you marry somebody who just only going to do things for you it just messes up everything wow and and that what is intimacy Beyond just there is the physical component which is extremely important and we don't want to dismiss that but it's also a meeting of the minds if we can't connect emotionally and mentally I think when we talk we look at scripture and we limit it oh and Two Become One or we we got rings on and we have sex right it's like do you think that that's that's what God that's it well then we're holistic beings it wasn't just something about sex look at look at scripture Jesus said even when he was washing their feet one of the most intimate things you could do he was like now you can call me friend and what was he what is he mirroring the very this is the manifestation of the foreshadow of marriage I'm teaching you that this is what this is the goal friendship in this intimacy between the groom and his bride is friend friendship is the goal man and so when Jesus called them to Friendship he it was the elevation these are from it's Oneness because most people think man a lot of men look at look at women uh as like an asset to meet their goals their personal goals to reach their what they want to do and it's like no like the the goal is actually what you said it is it is close intimacy right it is it is it is what Adam saw when he first saw Eve he the first human words in recording the Bible was a poem this at last is bone in my bone flesh in my flesh you should be called woman because she was taken out of a man like he saw somebody that he can love not somebody who he can like become successful but somebody might argue but she's my helper though she she is a help she well she is a Helper because the the the the ultimate goal is to glorify God right and so we we're put together to to glorify God and to give his name glory and so she was created to help him to help Humanity do that you know Humanity wasn't complete until she came right but relationships have never been one-dimensional but from the beginning that would be the argument but what what I was going to say is we help like we we we glorify God the most when we are close when we are connected when we are one we are friends like when like when we when our relationships mirrors Christ's relationship with his church and mirrors Christ's relationship with his father they they like and love one another yeah and so we don't like and love one another how can we glorify God who is communal who always love one another for all of eternity and so like yeah that's good I like that I really like that I like that okay you got any more questions oh I have a lot but but we we running over um I will I'll ask this what is your advice to men or your thoughts I'll say your thoughts for men who feel sexually unsatisfied and are starting to consider alternative ways to get that need met father father that was the first thing I was going to touch on when we went another Direction just my concern for men is lust but you can go first it's a lot to be said in this particular area and we got to be so I just want everyone to know all listeners we were speaking from the men's perspective and so I think far too often because there are some there are two perspectives to consider to attempt to try to accommodate the other perspective we minimize the necessary perspective of a man when it comes to sex and we're talking about needs there's an argument that went forth this oh a woman who was a therapist or counselor said men need sex and it was a big uproar like men need sex because to a certain extent it's just like it's not a biological need you can exist without it if you're a single man and God didn't call you the marriage and you don't need sex but I think what was being missed in that is in a in a loving relationship between a husband and a wife I think far too often the physical intimacy Dynamic that should be should be reverence in that way is often diminished as this is an extracurricular activity that you like but it's not that important it's not that serious and I think it's disconnected from the emotional side I think sometimes a woman can say okay yeah I know you you want sex because you're just horny and maybe sometimes but in a loving relationship between a man and a wife that man's Ultimate Way of expressing that I have my desire is for you and I want the most closeness with you is in that function of physical intimacy of of just being touched and feeling wanted in a marriage and I think so many times that's Mis I don't know it's not it's not handled well in conversations yeah yeah yeah yeah when I think about this issue I think about two things I got to think about what you just said but I also think about just the the idea of lust and how the enemy wants to destroy us by using lust yeah and I think what the enemy in our flesh our flesh desires good things right I think what a man with a man ultimately wants before marriage and in marriage is intimacy yeah closeness Oneness I think God created us to to want that I think what the enemy does he doesn't create anything he just perverts emotions perverts desires and so when I think about lust I think the enemy has perverted our desires that were originally pure to make us to to try to spiritually and emotionally kill us wow I think men are are attacked with us to become spiritually and emotionally dead right um in the sense that that the way we think about sex and intimacy a lot of times it's perverted and it's it is not it's not natural right and so so the culture teaches us that that women are objects wow right and they are they are there are means in which we have to get a a itch scratch which is the reason why pornography is so demonic yes because it shows you know and then and it's also a prideful thing I talked about this when we did the whole pornography thing it's it's it's men who have been rejected going to watch something watching men who are not getting rejected man looking highly desirable by another woman so it feeds a pride it feeds right which is a pervert it's a perverted version of what God like desires from us and so I think a lot of men come into marriage and coming to the church with a very skewed perverted View of intimacy because the enemy in our flesh has appealed so much to our lust wow and so one we have to just rewire our minds of what the culture and what Society has told us about ourselves has told us about women and has told us about how we how how we get these desires because they're not necessarily needs their desires wow and desires are not evil the way we go about it can be right and so I think that men really need to to to be discipled in their way to say man what what you what you've learned about a woman body and even what you've learned about your own body is wrong jeez it's wrong and I think I think oftentimes just like you said man it's such a self we have selfish motives we come to the table of intimacy and we come we approach like consumers we approach like like carnivores ready to just you know to satisfy oneself but we don't come to the table to share yeah we don't and we don't care you know I always asked um this question in my mind to God like why it just why does it seem like you pair married couples unevenly like you give this man this High desire for sex and you give him a woman or it seems like woman just naturally seem to desire sex but want it differently or want it at different levels like why and I think it has a lot to do with this journey and the way he's called us to to approach like well if my wife desires to be catered to to be loved to have kindness poured on her and that is our route then I'm going to love herself sacrificially and find ways to love her in ways that we're we could share intimacy and from my wife she has to see that and so when we come to the table we're both coming to the table ready to feed each other not ready to Feast off each other in the sense that in the same way that we have to kind of be mindful that God created our women differently and we're not going to we cannot for like why would we be okay consuming sex at her expense yeah is it sex really desirable no it's not if she doesn't want it nope like we it was like well it should be it shouldn't be but if but if but if you have been so conditioned by the culture to to say man this woman exists for me to get my physical needs mad and for me not to meet her at a place where we both can enjoy each other yeah you're okay with that man right um but if but if but if you're not okay with that like your wife's not enjoying it deeply affects you someone said I I kind of just slightly disagree and I gave my opinion they said women have been taught by society and the church which I I agree with that sex is Purity culture you know sex is bad and men need it and women don't need it so what's been happening is women have had these high desires and they've been over time gradually suppressed because of doctrines and false ideas that have come about sex that make it feel wrong so when they get to the place where it's time to express they they don't initiate and things like that yeah and so it was the conversation was about initiation and I was like I agree with that I feel like when I've seen it happen many times when people have had these ideas about sex they come to the table and they're just like well if it's wrong then I'm not gonna know how to initiate because I've been told it's wrong but I also feel like the other side of the that which I think is more important is we're ex all of us men I just said very loud every man wants his wife to initiate sex often however I think that the hap to have that expectation is to expect a wife to approach sex like a man does and so we're expecting her to be assertive and Lead um in this particular area no other area to assertively lead in an area that they really been called or more natural their natural responders yeah they respond in love they respond in kind someone's like why don't you just why don't you you know jump to sex why don't you just throw it on me well you're trying to tell your wife to be a man however while it is important and while it's good I think we we have to train each other in a sense for each other that's how you relationship how you serving her to to not get what you want but to to meet her at a place right meet her at a place and so now it's not hey I just want you to initiate but I want you to learn me while I learn you yeah I want to serve you as you serve let me let me say this too because uh because because honest to you babe let me just say this real quick and I'm gonna pass it to you because when I talked about how I talked about how like men like like lust isn't making us oh the enemy is trying to use lust to spiritually and emotionally kill us I truly believe that but I I think my encouragement to to women would be don't treat us how the culture has defined us if a man comes to you and you feel and you and you're turned off because you feel like he's emotionally not there or he's spiritually not where you want him to be treat him like what God says he is and I think a lot of times in our culture men are not men can be build up by women in ways I don't I really don't think that they can I think that women come all the time with their frustrations and their complaints instead of let me let let me be a a a woman of God in a way that will will will will come to a man and treat him how God says he is and I think you know me and Ezekiel was talking the other day um and we were talking about how like uh sometimes when people see our relationships online people say Goals yeah people say this and people say that and it's just like no like we wasn't always the man we were but we are very much a product of a good woman who helped us get to a place right and so what a good woman to does is if you love him well in some ways and don't meet him with frustration and encourage him not by his actions all the time but but but but but treat him like you know like he's the man that God called him to be I think a lot of men will see a lot of their problematic you know issues and he and he can grow right that's good and so I think yeah don't if that's because a man acts emotionally dead don't treat him emotionally dead that's good yeah I like that what I was going to say is I was just going to confirm uh that ezekiel's perspective is valid um I was listening to a podcast the other day uh by a sex therapist and he was talking about how there are two different desires uh that people don't understand are at play in our sexual relationships which is that statistically more women usually have what's called receptive desire and more men have what's called initiative desire which means that we all know this but men are just ready to go yeah right so they are prone to initiate because they're ready but a woman usually has initiative or a receptive desire which means she's a neutral and it's the man's job to bring her to go right and so I think I think that is interesting because it helps one the woman not to feel like something is wrong with her because she's not turned on as often as her husband is is nothing wrong with you it's just that he has to lead you to the place that he's at and so I think that already that puts couples in a position of of interdependence which I think is what God has called us yeah and I think it it initiates Pursuit right it initiates this picture of a cry of Christ pursuing his church but I think not to interrupt you I mean but I think like me and you were talking about I think what what burden that puts on the woman and a good burden Christ you know my yoke is easy my burden is light like Christian discipleship has burdens but I think what burden it puts on the woman is you have to make a decision to respond to the leadership right and so I think there's a lot in the yes right so if he's trying to bring me and guide me to go if I'm always saying no I need to ask why right so is it that I need healing or is it that I need humility and I think when you dig into both of those then I think that helps us to work through sexual healing and humility can go a long way yeah we can start getting none of these hey come on now and but here's the thing I was gonna say something else but uh hey bro can I because you talked about this before because the devil wants you and everybody bad when you ain't married yeah my wife has explained I want us to get him sheets my wife has explained sex is like ice cream for her she's like she's like the same thing I I enjoy ice cream I actually love ice cream live without it yeah I'm like what that makes no sense that's literally what I said I said it's like cake like when I eat cake I like cake but I just don't but it's also but it's also it's like it's water it's no yeah it's also like it's sexy it's kind of like water in a little way I need it but uh y'all just saying y'all don't need it but okay but but what I'm saying is it's not just it's not because I'm being literal here but if cake was in the house every single day you would be tempted to eat it every single day if you liked it I'm in this house every single day and you ain't tempted to to you know what I'm saying to get out of the sheets every single day receptive design you have receptive design and so there is uh there is emotional something emotional there that that we have to kind of like that's what I said the the the if you have receptive desire then if you're trying to bring me to go that means that the the my job my burden my duty is to respond to the leadership and if my response is always no there is something there that needs to be interrogated that's all I'm saying no no we've actually grown for sure because I'm you know and I think this is the conversation that needs to be had because it is a twofold conversation because you're talking about responding and reception but if a man is is like so there's responsibility I want to put it like that there is like this light bird there's responsibility for the man to lead and the burden of the responsibilities on that Manda lead if she is called to to respond and I think to emphasize hey if he's if he's leading and like what you said if he's leading or if he's trying um I think that needs to be acknowledged with patterns I would say hey this is this is you leading and this is me responding what frustrates men is men are so logical and basic it's like when I did this I did this I did this and I got these results it's not working so you you can't say no after that's how we think yeah and because I think I've I've [Music] I've had that feeling so much especially when I was when I was when I first got married and it's just like no like one I I didn't give you a rip like there's no remedy to make your wife do what you want to do because once she's nuanced and a lot of times God gives us nuanced women because he wants us to depend on him more yes right and so it wasn't until like I stopped looking at these okay step one step two I think Jackie can really like step three you know what I'm saying it wasn't to stop stop doing that and said Lord yeah help me yeah I don't understand this woman would you help me because you created it you can help me yeah right and so I think that God wants men to depend on him more than we depend on strategy patience and and compromise in that area is necessary for men because you know ah can I be honest so before when I used to get rejected from my wife back in the day she didn't understand that now it's different she didn't understand what's the value of sex was to me and I used to feel rejected and I used to run to porn as a way to kind of self-medicate from that rejection yeah she didn't know I felt like I was ready I never cried to my wife until I finally admitted like I feel like you don't love me I feel like you don't want me and she was baffled at that idea and I I think like get into the place where things can be communicated on the man's part yeah and also on the women's part because if if we know that men think like this help them out by kind of sharing hey this is just one of those days and this is why it's one of those days but also on the other side of that there this is going to be the most controversial thing that I say and I y'all could fight me on it there may be days that just naturally you don't want to respond and I think on those days call on Grace for patience respond if she doesn't want to you can't force her yeah yeah you know what I'm saying and you got to be able to understand like there are nights I go to sleep in heat there are some nights I go to sleep in heat because maybe my wife says she got a head colder she's tired and she don't feel like it or you know she's on you know the time of the month whatever the case may be I have to learn how to build this understanding I'm not being rejected that's number one I love her she loves me and I'm compromised I'm I'm patient and I love her period but then on the other side of that because I've been attacked for this or I've seen this attack I've seen this attack before if a woman doesn't feel like it or just doesn't want to in a particular day or instance I think as much as we're calling on Grace and we're fighting you know I think on the other side there should be also a fight there that says you know what naturally and instinctively I'd probably say no but I love you so I might do something I might rub your back I might try to do something to let you know that I see you like yeah I think there should be kind of this yeah I had a friend I had a friend a couple weeks ago that said man my wife don't even know like how much I would just appreciate a back rub when I came home I came home and told you I was like yeah he was just like I was just surprised like she don't even know like a back rub would be like man has he told her uh he told after I told him to okay she doesn't even know why yeah uh you know um and yeah I I yeah I think men are emotional creatures yeah I think the way we express it looks different and I think that if if if if if people would treat us how they how God says we exist and not how the culture I think a lot of men will feel the freedom to come out and Bloom um and not almost stay in this in this cocoon and I think some of it is you have to show us you know because you I remember the first time you cried to me it was you hated it but I need to I needed to see it that you were a whole person right and so or when we had conversations about you know if I did reject you or not even reject you if I rejected sex because I would often say I'm not rejecting you I'm rejecting it cause I was it was weird I was like she don't want to have sex with me but she wants to get into bed and put her foot on my back and I get to put on me why we just can't go more but again receptive desire because to me you want it to go to 15 when me uh me touching you and being intimate while walking watching a movie would actually get me to 15 even if it's slower and then he would get me there and then they may take showers and and it was that with the women you I'm not a pronoun they be smelling good and I'm like why you anyway with non-scented Souls the whole point is is that as you showing us your humanity and explaining your complexities also allows us to respond to you as you are and so if you only project strength if you only project you know self-sufficiency if you only project like I'm the Hulk I'ma treat you like that wow well he ain't the Hulk I'm gonna give him some what what about anyway I gotta go pick up the kids um so any closing thoughts any anything that you want to say that you haven't said um I want to say that uh me and me and Ezekiel we had like a live event the other day and a lot of people well not a lot of people but some young men who are not married uh expressed Express the fact that they feel like I don't represent single men as well as I do married men or women even and they vote they they expressed how they didn't feel heard about me and that's just so far from the truth if you're if you're a man who's heard this and didn't hear me speak up for men I really do have a heart for the for the brothers and I and I and I think um God is really shifting me to to even targeted men more in my Ministry and I and I I just want the man to know listening to this podcast one uh you don't have to run to the nation Islam or Hebrew israelism like in the body of Christ your voice is valued you are important and you are necessary to not only the body of Christ but to a Godly woman uh a family like like we like Society needs us it just doesn't want us it needs us and so you're needed and you're necessary and so you know uh that's all I want to say and I love that and I think this is my heart to heart for the brothers man I think so many times we're misunderstood and we're you know we're labeled as men because we we have beards and we we're at the age of accountability and sometimes we're gifted we're wise and we have knowledge some of us um but I think some people underestimate sometimes that the boy in US is unhealed unspoken to unseen and I think oftentimes when you see grown men act out in their vices you know their players or you know they don't trust nobody or they're violent and they're aggressive oftentimes we're seeing um Tantrums from the boy has never been seen that hasn't been heard that have been rejected that have been abandoned and it's so it's so so easy to call those men out to critique those men to judge those men to blame those men when what should be happening is instead of looking at those leaves speak to the root speak to the boy affirm the boy see what God wants to do in the boy and I think that we're talking about the conversation of value and this is what that's the part of the the man that wants to be disciple the boy in him that wants to know what it's like to be a man of God and how the same way Jesus called children to himself the only ones that are going with him that are going to be translated into glory is not the preacher it's not the poet Preston Perry it's the boy it's the son yeah that's my baby that's that's that's my son and until we get to a place where we're willing to even as Mary as married people or as sisters in the church or as pastors if we can identify that boy speak to speak healing towards that boy speak growth uh um you know rally around this to support and strengthen and build up that boy we are no better than the Kevin Samuels we're no better than those that are speaking to you know that broken place that are exacerbating the wounds instead of tending to them and I think we have to see it like that otherwise we're being grossly dismissive of what these men are really going through they're they're not just men that you know want six figures and not just men that don't know how to deal with women they are boys that have not found their way yeah that that need direction yeah yeah and if I could say one last thing I know we're going over like a lot of arguments and frustration happens through social media on certain pages and for the I want to just address The Godly women out there because I know a lot of women listen to this podcast and I want to just encourage you guys to not meet men woundedness with your woundedness like like meet them at a place of your out of out of your out of your you you you being healed by God because I think that we miss each other when we come and when we when we approach a man of how all the men in our past have wounded wounded wounded us and we don't really see the potential of that man because we're we're we're approaching his woundedness with ours and it's like if you don't look at man through the lens of that like I think that we have to struggle both men and women to really see the opposite sex how God defines us um and so I think when we do that um men and women relationship from a brother and a romantic standpoint which is grown flourish amen amen you guys are great one bye good job guys that was

Channel: With The Perrys

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Id: RtU96jtZ5JA

Length: 77min 10sec (4630 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 28 2023