Infertility, Suffering, and Hagar

[Music] today is Monday where we are it is Monday June it's not June it's may you all in different months what day is it let me look at my phone it's May 22nd the way our podcast schedule is usually set up y'all probably ain't even gonna get this to August sorry but y'all gonna get it like it's fresh but it's just gonna be a right now word whenever you do get it what did you do this morning what was your day like uh I got up I laid there for me got up and laid there yeah that's interesting got up and lay there I woke up okay I woke up you know some Christians be trying to act deep but I sought the Lord's face as soon as I woke up yeah yeah I didn't do that okay I'm gonna be I'm gonna be all the way around it uh yeah that's gonna be terrible huh not good no I get up and I woke up and I stood and I laid there with the ceiling and I was like I want to get out of bed but I didn't I was like you know what after like 20 minutes I was like I should pray so I pray and uh and then after that I just started handling stuff with my clothing line um both apparel where you can get some of the dopest Christian merch um out there what's the website since we're here both apparel.shop okay uh you're gonna ask me what I did what you had I don't care okay he was doing squats no no I'll tell you a little story not today showing your little thighs no I got up I fed your children I took them to school then I went to the gym today was cardio arm day and core day I've been trying to fix my diastasis recti so yo what what you say What's your recta wow that's obnoxious when women have babies their abdomen separate to create room and space for the baby the body is a beautiful thing but when the baby comes on out the abdomen is still separated so the women have to do core work or surgery to allow their abdominal muscles to come back into place now you've been putting in work though that's what I've been doing I've been really inspired by you you've been putting in work that's good you was always fine but now you just you know tightening up you know what I'm saying you know what I'm saying so I'm like okay okay no you know being healthy is very much an aesthetic for me I'm not one of those people that's like oh health is wealth and I just want to be no it is an aesthetic I like how I look when I look a certain way but it also feels good it feels good to be strong it feels good to be able to get up and not be tired it feels good to walk up steps with babies and not be you know what I'm saying you're a different person because I remember after our first child he was living in a little one small bedroom apartment in Oak Park Chicago and our first event I never forget this our first event we had a poetry event in Atlanta ironically we live in Atlanta now I don't remember what I don't know where you're going yeah but I remember the the the people from the college we had a poetry event sent pictures back from the event and you saw yourself and you said oh my gosh look at me I look like a muppet and you and literally the next day you was in the gym and you went to work I did I mean she was so much I call that my I think everybody when you're trying before you lose weight I think you have to have a trigger moment like and that was my trigger moment seeing myself in that picture I was like wow I'd look like a wide mop like something has to take but what's crazy is I lost 60 pounds after it so that was eating I lost 60 pounds after eating I lost around 50 pounds after Autumn and now this is me losing sage in August weight but it's crazy the older I get the harder it is yeah it was so it was so easy we're eating I cut out ketchup and dropped 10 pounds yeah you know what I'm saying because you know ketchup it's like 60 tablespoons of sugar you went too extreme though woohoo with our first job because you ended up losing weight and then I'm gonna run a marathon I'm like what I needed a goal it was a goal that I set up it wasn't extreme I just was really bony I won't get that money again you were skinny I was I was about 120. let's get into this uh so what are we doing why are we here so so some of you guys may remember we did a series called teach to text where we opened the Bible and Jackie would either walk through a text or I would walk through a text and we thought it would be a good idea to bring this series back look at you Holston I lost count uh but yeah man uh this story Genesis 16 about Hagar is a really really good good story um you know and I feel like Jackie will be a good person to teach the text because she has been teaching this text yeah I've been on the road taught this about six times now yeah yeah so so yeah let's let's dig into this to this text with Sarah so so I could lead with saying I don't know why that's in there but I oh okay so with Glory this year's theme was Jesus and women right and so I was turning over my mind like what text could we walk through to kind of highlight this idea of Jesus caring for providing for being with all the things when it comes to women and I knew I wanted to do uh the woman at the well that's really obvious and I love taking texts that people are familiar with and and not turning it on its head in terms of heresy because I think some people can try to find something new in the text and they actually create something new yeah versus turning it in such a way where it's like no that's always been there we just haven't had the eyes to see it that's the way I liked it and by the way that's a very hard thing to do if you're trying to do it by your own strength I think that people need to be praying yes you know because you have to be trained and developed because you also need a certain amount of discipline to have biblical interpretation yeah because I've seen where people they want so bad to find a nugget that they actually read in to the text and they don't see that the actual simple interpretation is just as powerful because what's deep and this is not to criticize people out there but I think a lot of times I see people handling attacks and I can identify creativity there yeah no you're a creative person I could just tell the texting saying that though [Laughter] what you just said was creative yeah and so that but the text doesn't need your creativity it needs yeah that would be that would that was your imagination not interpretation yeah absolutely so I just thought that was a good word anywho so a friend of mine said what what about Hagar in Genesis 16 I said yeah no I ain't I ain't touching that why because I knew it was a complicated text like you you have Hagar this slave this concubine who was in the household of Abraham Abram who is made to have his baby and then she flees the abuse of Sarai and then she's in the desert and the angel of the Lord meets her and tells her to go back to uh Abram's house and so all of that together you have infertility you have baroness you have suffering you have abuse you have slavery you have uh uh surrogacy like you have so many themes that land on women in a very particular way and so I didn't want to touch it and then I felt like the Lord was like nah but you're going to touch it so I did and I'm grateful I did that's though I'm grateful because one I think as a Bible teacher I think it it you kind of build your your textual muscles by handling text that might be a bit difficult but I also think it reaffirmed God's goodness and faithfulness yeah um because I think a lot of people when it comes to passages like these or Like Us in first Samuel 6 who touches the ark and drops dead like those passages that don't sit right with us we can read them in such a way where we kind of have a cynicism about the Lord because of the text but I have the disposition that what Jesus has revealed about God must influence how I understand him in text that complicate me or are complicated so it's like I presuppose goodness like Jesus said to Nicodemus like what like was it Nicodemus yeah yeah why do you call me no there was a Rich Young Ruler like why do you call me only God is good so our presuppose goodness in every complicated text and if you presuppose goodness you're going to see goodness sounds good I think you should read the text all right so if you are in your car no worries we're going to read the Bible somebody tore this off ain't no no worries pull over who did this pull over if you're in car pull over I think one of our kids did this it looks like our dog December no he don't be opening the Bible and eating it but it looks like something August would do or Sage anyway I'm gonna read it so that we have context for the text okay it is Genesis 16 I'm reading from the ESV um yeah now now Sarai Abram's wife had borne him no children everybody say no children she had a female Egyptian servant whose name was Hagar and Soraya said to Abram behold now the Lord has prevented me from bearing children go into my servant it may be that I shall obtain children by her and Abram listened to the voice of Sarai so after Abram had lived 10 years in the land of Canaan Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar the Egyptian her servant and gave her to Abram her husband as a wife I hope y'all are recognizing all the repeated words and themes that are happening and he went into Hagar and she conceived and when she saw that she had conceived she looked with contempt on her mistress and Sariah said to Abram May the wrong done to me be on you I gave my servant to your Embrace and when she saw that she had conceived she looked on me with contempt may the lord judge between you and me but Abram said to Sarai behold your servant is in your power due to her as you please then Sarai dealt harshly with her and she fled from her should I keep going or should I pause uh maybe we should pause yeah pause okay pause from here so context has it we got Sarai who's Abram's wife we eventually he'll be Abraham she'll be Sarah right and Moses the writer of Genesis opens up the text by immediately establishing that there's a problem yeah like there there's some tension which is that Sarai Abram's wife has not borne him any children that don't sound like a problem to everybody right yeah yeah because everybody don't want kids so you could read that and be like oh it's all good you only know it's a problem if you read four chapters before this one which is Genesis 12 where God speaks to Abram that's what I was going to ask next where did you start where did I start yeah because I I think I think a lot of times when you get to a story like this some people may approach the text like oh I should just read this story and just like look at the the context clues and just kind of see what the story is saying but a lot the Bible is uh a book right a continued like a continued Narrative of stories or whatever so like when you started to study this passage where did you start did you start was it a starting place to get you to this point to give you further context of this story yeah so because this is a narrative that involves people with history yeah especially uh like somebody like Abraham Abraham is actually an easy slash hard person to teach because there's so much context about him you got Abram and Romans you got Abram in Hebrews you got Abram and Genesis he's the father of of Faith like you got Abram mentioned by the Pharisees and the people of Israel in the gospels like you have a lot so that that means that it's easy because you got a lot to pull from it's hard because you got to decide what to pull yeah um but I think knowing that they are people with a history it's not fair to just start in Genesis 16 when his Story begins in Genesis 12. right like if I was to write a story or a sermon about Preston uh regarding pressing in 2023 I could start there there's a lot like oh Preston is married to Jackie on the Block he got like a long beard you know what I'm saying like he got four kids he has a dog that's cool but that's actually a short-sighted understanding of you yeah I need to start in 1986 right and so that's the way I started so I started in Genesis 12 which actually gave me a lot of clarity on Genesis 16 which is that God uh sets him apart says a imma make you a father of many nations then in Genesis I think 15 God makes a covenant with Abram and says hey I'm gonna give you a son so that means that the Nations the all like all of the nations of the earth will be blessed through Abram this nation will come through a son that Abram will have from his own not his body but you know what I'm saying like the sperm and all the things yeah and so that means that when we get to Genesis 16 it immediately Begins by but Sarah had no children um we got a problem yeah yeah we see like okay and God is often like that it's like he he he he he says things will happen and then when you get to the point to a particular point it's like okay how is this going to happen Lord yeah and the Lord has uh yeah he has a pattern of like I'm going to make things happen in such a way where you know it's me come on here like yeah I said I'm gonna do it but when we get to now he'd be handing out promises and we'd be like really excited like oh many nations that's fire okay you know like made the Covenant and you was like a smoking pot and a flaming torch like that's cool that's that's all that's awesome and it's like 10 years go by okay 20 years all right boys come from 15 years oh okay we still they got no kids right like it's like all right either you're a liar or you're like doing something yeah or you're trying to show us that you're the Lord and he's never a liar so I think it's significant to recognize that God's promise to Abram involves and hinges on the procreation of a son and so not having a son in this narrative means that if it can seem as if God's promise to Abram is being threatened and it's not being threatened by sin it's not being threatened by Satan it's not being threatened by the world it's being threatened by a sarai's own body um which is crazy all right so let's jump into uh 16. and I I really want to chapter 16 chapter 16. we've been there I mean you went back I'm saying like yeah I just brought it back to verse one okay I'm sorry so we can go to verse two verse two okay and so I said to Abram behold now the Lord has prevented me from bearing children what I love about that sentence is that Sarai has a very um true theology about the creative sovereignty of God and I say creative sovereignty because anytime you see a baby God created the baby he made like life he is its source you know what I'm saying like the body is not the ultimate source of conception God is and so she understands that the reason she is infertile and the reason she is in Barren is is Barren is because the Lord has prevented her from bearing children but as a teacher of the text I can't just say that part and not be sensitive to all the women in the room that hear that and actually are discouraged yeah because that can be very discouraging yeah yeah that's another question I was going to ask yeah uh because you I saw I saw this sermon being tall at your at your uh at your confidence the glory I was like what's the name of the conference yeah yeah yeah well you teach like 2 000 women this this text and so even approaching this text were there any um were there any fears that came up were there any fears that came up in you saying like man this is a woman who yes be it actually do some very very hard things and so Not only was it any like like grappling like with you like yeah as a woman with this text but how did you even approach this text knowing I have to teach this to 2000 women well more than that yeah because if I if I have nine glories two thousand that's about 15 20 000 women I'm I'm able to bring this text before yeah yeah and that's a lot of people whose story is similar to psoriasis yeah and so I think one it's a beautiful thing to be a woman honestly and and work through this text because I'm not asking the same questions that men would often ask you know I'm not saying that men are insensitive because they're human beings but even when I went through the commentaries they were not answering the questions I had such as how would that have felt for Sarai yeah to to not be able to have a baby how does that how does that feel especially when God has promised it right like yeah like that that's especially considering the context of their community and their day baroness and infertility was considered shameful so so shameful that you were considered to be accursed yeah because even when you look through Deuteronomy like one of the curses that came with disobedience was what baroness yeah so it looked as if you weren't blessed yeah but like God has actually turned his face away can I say this real quick too and uh not to not to get off subject but this is just it just made me think of this I think this is a this is a reason why men in the body should really value women's voices you know what I'm saying because like even when we look in Genesis right and um you know God told Adam it wasn't good for him to be alone um like Humanity couldn't fully uh mirror the image of God without both male and female right and so I think we can we can have like oh women value women's voices to to be like we're pro-women and all of that it's bigger than that it's about are we not hearing from women and is it preventing us from really seeing a clear picture of the Lord right right it's about it's really it's really a gospel issue right um because if women reflect the glory of God in ways that men don't we miss out you do we miss out on so much and so I think what that shows me is I think that we need both men and women looking and knowing how to read the Bible contextually and coming putting our heads together and saying like how can we come together and fully see the the heart of God yeah in in concerning the Texas so because you saw things in the text as a woman yeah that I just won't see yeah because and I can read things about war you know what I'm saying about about a text as a man that you just couldn't understand because it's it's no different than you being from Chicago if you watch a documentary that is placed in Chicago let me give a better example I remember there was a a show that was supposedly based in Chicago but they were they had these actors that I could tell weren't from Chicago yeah and if if I didn't live five years in Chicago if I wasn't married with somebody from Chicago if I didn't have history in Chicago I wouldn't have been able to even discern those kinds of dysfunctions in the show right and so there's a sense we don't say son every time they do every time they do a Chicago movie they make in New York and they think Urban culture especially if it's not the south is New York yeah it's just like bro we don't talk like that yeah we don't say yo yeah so being connected to you being from Chicago but me being connected and living in Chicago meant that I have a certain social location that allows me to ask or think through or notice certain things that don't correspond with the social location I live in so bringing that back to this text as a woman right in friendship with other women who are dealing with and walking through baroness when I come across a text that says now Sarai Abram's wife had borne him no children I'm not going to just move on yeah right I'm not just going to be like oh okay cool but she eventually had no I'm gonna stay there and say huh it makes sense why she's eventually going to create a strategy for having children because that that means a lot to her yeah you can understand yeah so I put makeup on my Bible that's good that's a very womanly thing so she says the Lord has prevented me from bearing children and I know that that that's discouraging to many women especially women who have tried um to have a child through IVF who have prayed who have fasted and there's all these internal pressures and external pressures that come with that which is like you have internal shame that says I'm not woman enough I'm not wife enough I'm not good enough you have external pressure especially with people outside of the Christian Community or inside the Christian Community will say like oh you just don't have enough Faith you're not praying enough yeah I'm saying like you're like it's something wrong with you that's why you remain childless yeah and what they don't recognize that they're doing is that they're putting the burden of bareness on the woman instead of on the Lord who the Bible consistently says that he is the one that opens and closes the womb well what would you say about her strategy like for people who would just wrestle with the the fact that she created a strategy to have the children when you say it was a lack of faith what you say it was it was totally a lack of faith but but but also to um is it commendable in any kind of way no sin is never a commendable okay um because the Lord has made a promise God is a man that cannot lie yeah so much so that remember before this chapter is Genesis 15 where God makes a covenant with Abraham where where he has Abraham slaughtered these animals Abraham goes to sleep and God manifests himself as a pot and a flaming torch and walks through the blood of these animals saying basically metaphorically speaking if I don't keep my promise to you my the blood of these animals I I will be just like them the blood will be on my hands and so so God has made it very clear he's going to do what he said but the problem is is that one thing you'll notice in Genesis 16 is that it gives you a timeline it says in verse three so after Abram listened to the voice of his wife no so after Abram had lived 10 years in the land of Canaan Soria Abram's wife took Hagar the Egyptian her servant and gave her to Abram meaning it's only been 10 years since they've been in the land of Canaan and she doesn't have any more patience um that's the problem is that you are unwilling to wait for the timing of the Lord and isn't that all of us all the time when you even move forward into Exodus I think it's 33 they build the the the the golden calf because they like hey Moses been on the mountain for four days we'll know where yet impatience really is at the root of a lot of idolatry yeah but we don't want to say that and our forgetfulness say that again and I forgetfulness explain that we we've like because it's not just impatience with the people of Israel but it was the fact that they forgot like you literally saw God split a whole sea you like like literally like to go back to your analogy is that God made a way out of no way with the whole pot and all of that yeah it's like not only did he take you from the land of Egypt but when y'all got to a roadblock which was the sea it's like how we gonna get to the other side yeah what did he do he created a way yeah because God Made A Way and so y'all here so it's not just your lack of impatience but your lack of remembrance come on you you have the inability to to remember and I would imagine it's done for you I would imagine that the discipline because it is a discipline of remembering is actually what can cultivate hope right impatience don't come out of nowhere yeah so I wonder if impatience also comes out like like that there's a step like Step One is remembering step two is Hope step three is therefore endurance and steadfastness yeah yeah but if we don't do the remembering then we lose the hope and therefore functioning in patience and then don't endure yeah yes yeah okay I think that was good I was trying to create a path yeah and I think that was good so yeah she's sinning and you know one one right way you could know she's in it is that because verse 2 says when she comes up with this idea that hey go into my servant it may be that I shall obtain children by her two ways you can understand that one she says go into my servant and maybe that I shall obtain children by her that's interesting because she just said that it's the Lord that prevented me from bearing a child so you would would assume then that if the Lord has prevented it then the Lord can give it but she didn't she doesn't say hey the Lord has prevented us from having a baby let's pray let's fast let's let's let the Lord let's welcome in community to help us stir up hope because it may be that I will obtain children by him she says it may be that I will obtain children by her which tells me that she's actually misplaced her hope she's put her hope on somebody else that's good she's put her hope on somebody else to bring this baby into the world instead of the Lord yeah another another clue that there's it's sinful is that it says and Abram listened to the voice of his of uh and Abram listened to the voice of Sarai what does that sound like it's the same language of Abram Adam listen to the voice of Sarai meaning this is a textual clue that Moses is giving us that there is sin happening among them um and so he does they they pull aside Hagar the Egyptian now the question I'm asking you where did Hagar come from because how does how does a wife how does a wife in Canaan Sarah get a slave from Egypt those are two different nations you tell us you study the Jackson let's turn to Genesis 12. you got your Bible yeah yep you ain't gonna turn to it you don't care yeah you go you can read it though okay so in Genesis 12 there is a famine in the land uh Abram goes down to Egypt to escape the famine that's happening obviously he takes a ride he takes his whole family all the things he goes to Sarai he like hey you're really pretty and because you pretty when pharaoh and his people see you they gonna take you and then they gonna kill me so this is what you gonna do you gonna say that you're my sister so then so that they won't kill me like they'll spare me for your sake which is completely obnoxious but I want you to notice that it shows you that both Abraham Abraham and Sarah are very strategic people they both know how to come up with plans and strategies for how to how to secure themselves how to make sure that they gonna be okay so when you move forward Oh So eventually the Pharaoh and them people they see Sarah they like oh she pretty they take her and they bring her to Pharaoh's house somebody could read that I'm like oh she's just going in the house real quick no sis she's going and taking it to a hero she's going and taking and to be a concubine of a foreign King now when you fast forward back to Genesis 16 that's significant so she's taken into a harem to be a concubine of a foreign King and then eventually Pharaoh he starts to give Abram all these gifts he's like thank you for giving me your sister she's so beautiful and imagine as a husband how bogus that is oh my gosh think about that she's not my sister hmm did you growl did you do that as a I could just see you doing that with you too I did growling no I used to always like like talking to my breath because I didn't want my mama slap me so I knew if I talked back I'd say some real smart hit me in my face [Laughter] no I'm afraid though like you can't what are you gonna say he can't talk so it's like that has to be like a a deep wrestle but he did it but this is how crazy it is he he told her to say that she was his sister he let her be taken by Pharaoh's people and Pharaoh was so happy to get his wife that he gave him wealth he gave him male servants he gave him animals and he gave him female servants meaning that Hagar was a gift to Abram in light of his wife being enslaved in Pharaoh's house that's so sad that's crazy now mind you he don't try to get her out he he don't he don't he don't go to work because he went to war for a lot when lot had beef earlier in Genesis he he pulled two up two 300 of his man to get lot out he don't do that for his wife though the person that rescued Sarai out of Pharaoh's house is God himself so then when we get to Genesis 16 I find it fascinating I find it interesting that what Sarai does is very similar to what Sarai endured which is that she takes her slave she takes Hagar who is a foreign woman and subjects her and subjugates her to be the concubine repeated Behavior she replicates the same exact trauma isn't that all all of us repeated Behavior it is wow wow and so I think that's important to draw out because we tend to only think about abuses of power coming from Men when this is an abuse of power coming from a woman yeah a woman who has also been abused by power you know what's crazy I've been seeing a lot of videos on Instagram of just women attacking women like in the in the name of speaking up for men and I wonder how many of y'all women just been abused by men or by women or by women and then you just you know when I was growing up it used to be like pimps you know and The Pimps will keep a lot of them women in in check by using other women to do it that's the and so like you know these women also came from places of abuse and so it's just learned behavior yeah and it's an experiential Behavior yeah and it's and it's wicked yeah it really comes from a wicked place because it's as if having the power and being able to flex it in subjugating someone else makes you feel powerful when that's incredibly weak yeah you know what I'm saying and I think I can empathize to a certain degree with Sarai because she's she's doing what is normative in her cultural context in her context it was normal for a Barren or infertile woman to use her slave as a surrogate right but the the the dynamic of it that is problematic is that the surrogate has no say or consent in her wanting to Bear the baby or become a concubine so you order you automatically kind of put her in a position not to be treated as a whole human being with dignity and honor right like I think that's different from culturally now today where people uh go get surrogates or whatever if they can't be like the surrogate can say yes I want to you know have your baby yes I will carry this but Hagar didn't have that option so much so that when you look at this text you never see them ask Hagar about Hagar they never say Hagar hey Hagar do you want to be with Abram do you want to have his baby when you have the baby do you want to give it to Sarai they don't even use her name the only reason we know Hagar's name is because Moses says it yeah you get what I'm saying and so this whole dynamic is really problematic yeah that's good uh I I don't want to skip along here but I definitely want to get to the part where she is approached by the Lord the Lord and so I I can we can we can we go to that part for the second time second time I don't care about time no more okay yeah yeah I know 30 minutes with all right it has been like an hour and 30 minutes with the Paris yeah it's not Oh you mean in general yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm just hearing that's what the Saints want but uh verse I do want to point out a couple things though in verse six so back up Sarai hasn't had any children for Abram she creates a strategy the strategy is that she gives Hagar her concubine or her slave her servant as a concubine slash wife to Abram he goes into Hagar she conceived because she's a surrogate that means that the child that comes from Abram and sarai's Union will legally be Sarah's child when she conceives the Bible says that she looks on her mistress with contempt some people have looked at that like oh like why she why she being contemptuous it's because contempt means to take lightly it means that sarai's position has been lowered in Hagar's mind because you've done like what this is what Sarai did you you you've made her not just a slave but a wife but you also allowed her to be a wife that carries a baby that you want and so now we see Hagar has power and she's flexing her power like imagine being a slave and it's like ah yo I got power now you want to treat me crazy well I got your baby you know what I'm saying like yeah it's like it's like house slaves she was probably walking around rubbing her belly you know what I'm saying over the lady so Sarai goes to Abrams like hey she tripping like like the Lord is gonna judge you for what's happening which is just psychotic looking well I'm not gonna say she's psychotic she's just she's not the woman of faith in this moment that we see in Hebrews which is actually kind of Fair yeah because I think we've all had Seasons where if they were written in books people would judge us yeah you get what I'm saying yeah and so I I guess I'm a look that's actually what I love about the Bible the most especially when I first came to Faith not growing up in a church and struggling if what it was the Bible true compared to other faiths it was like the Bible didn't highlight people's highlight reels um you know it didn't give us Moses was a straight murderer Moses murderer David we already know he was bogus you know what I'm saying killing that dude killing you know killing the dude to get his wife and all of that like it it shows you the reality of a person's Journey you know Paul before he was converted he was straight murkin cats you know what I'm saying like and so like the Bible is so consistent in showing you the progressive nature of how God sanctifies his people for his glory yeah and I you know I thought that was like dope yeah that's actually one of the dopest things in the Bible yeah it because it what it does I remember hearing this from somebody the Bible was very honest about everything so that when the Messiah comes you know he's the Messiah because he's the only perfect one yeah so so you can't be confused and think uh Moses is like because in Genesis 3 you know it says that uh the the the seed of the woman will crush the Serpent's head and people are reading the scriptures waiting on who that seed is going to be is it Moses oh no he killed somebody is it Abraham oh no he he keep giving his wife over to these Kings because he's scary he weird is it is it David oh no he over here you know sleeping with Bathsheba so when Jesus comes in it says in him was no sin and no deceit was found in his mouth it's like oh he's here now yeah yeah that's the one that's going to crush the head of the serpent that's why it's always confusing to me when like people in the world are trying to like call out Christians for like you know not being perfect it's like y'all haven't read the Bible because ain't nothing imperfect either it's like you haven't read any of the scriptures no like we jacked up yeah and they was jacked up too yeah but we the difference is we put our hope in the one who's not jacking and Abram and sarai's stories don't end here because even Abram even though he listens to the voice of his wife we have this moment in Genesis when is that yeah Genesis 22 when God when he finally does have Isaac his son and God comes and say hey sacrifice your son for me like this is the same man that gave his wife up because he was unwilling to sacrifice his own life yeah who now gets to a point where he has the the faith and the knowledge of God where he's now willing to sacrifice his son because he trusts God that much so it's like I think because we can read these chapters back to back we don't recognize that they are these are decades passing yeah before us that we can read in 30 minutes um so yeah so uh what happened Hagar she feel away shoe tree Network attempt and then Abram was like your power like he restores um Hagar's power over his servant or whatever her servant and then it says that Sarai deals harshly with Hagar the dealing harsh harshly some commentators say that because it's very similar to the language you accused of the Egyptians how they dealt with Israel they dealt harshly that that couldn't mean that they just imposed heavy labor labor on her and I never I didn't say this in the sermon because in sermons you can't give all these facts because it's not a lecture yeah but this is Loki a how do you call it this is a preview of The Exodus narrative because you have Hagar from Egypt who flees to Canaan and eventually you're going to have Israel in Egypt that flees to Canaan did I just say that wrong yeah I think you say can twice so Hagar is an Egyptian servant who goes into the land of Canaan but then you're going to have Israel who will be in Egypt who is go goes back into the land of Canaan like there's this reversal that God is already prepping our minds today um so she goes and they say that the text finds her in the wilderness on the way to sure that's significant because you'll see that in Exodus where they will be in the wilderness on the way to sure which means that Hagar is on her way back to Egypt she's trying to go home yeah I think we need to feel that for a second yeah like she's been in this foreign man's house now she's pregnant with his baby a baby she ain't even asked for and the wife deals harshly with her and she's like you know what I gotta go like y'all got me messed up and so I'm gonna walk all the way back to another country she like Deuces y'all got me messed up mind you between Canaan and Egypt is 300 miles that's a month of walking no wonder why she was thirsty don't the text that she was drinking it doesn't say that oh okay leading into the text it's okay I'm sure she was we can we can assume that she was thirsty I'm sure she was thirsty she stopped to get some Kool-Aid or something wow but she's on the way to sure and she should die like that's kind of like what might and what and what had happened when she you know she was she was in this Wilderness so it says that the angel of the Lord found her I love the word found because it means you're looking yeah the angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water spring is also the Hebrew word for I yeah so next to the eye she's seen yeah he finds our spring of water in the wilderness to spring on the way to sure so remember this this means that she is in between like she's out she's coming out of Canaan on her way to Egypt and he speaks to her and he says Hagar servant of Sarai where have you come from and where are you going this is the first time in this narrative where we see somebody ask Hagar about Hagar wow I love that part that's amazing because it the the Lord acknowledges her the Lord calls her by her name the Lord asks her a question like he gives her the Dignity of even showing up as if he's curious yeah yeah and I love the fact you said you love the fact that they said it found her not only does it indicate that the Lord was Lord was looking for her but you know Hagar wasn't looking for the Lord and isn't that so evident of us it's like like the Lord often finds us not what we're necessarily looking for him looking for a way out I should have put that in my sermon because that's not in there yeah that's great yeah we're we're not she she's look she's she's searching for something and she doesn't really know what she's she's searching for safety Safety and Security and deliverance but see that's that's that's the time when the Lord comes that's when he comes keep going when you when you are at the at the end of your of yo yo don't say your rope your rope yeah at the end of it and you don't know I don't know who created that idiom I don't know go ahead but you know and so that's just a beautiful picture of the Gospel you know she wasn't looking for God but God was looking for her you know but I loved when it says when when the when the uh what verse is that I don't know when the Angels acts oh where you come from where are you where are you coming from and where are you going oftentimes in the text when God asks a question we not know oftentimes all the time all the time he never he's never asked any question because he doesn't know the answer he's trying to reveal something and so what do you what do you take from that when it says where do you come from where are you going well I think it could be easy for us to make our allow our imagination to take that question too far in what way so our imagination might start to apply this in ways where is the Lord asking you where you came from and is the Lord asking you where you going where did you come from this did you and I think there's room for that kind of uh introspection because the text because this part is a question geared towards her but it shouldn't be all about us is that what you're saying I I think what I'm saying is I think the bigger question is if God when he asks a question in Scripture it is a revelation of some sort I think the safest way to understand why he's asking it is to say what is he revealing about himself in the asking and so for God to say where have you come from and where are you going is really for God to invite her into a conversation with himself he already knows the answer to the question you better teach a little pretty face off it's like it's like a Genesis in Genesis 3 after Adam sinned Adam where are you he knows where he is but if Adam answers the question God has actually given him an opportunity to confess that's so good wait a minute I would throw this whole ESV it's a thick Bible to this Bible never heard my feelings I would he would be dealing harshly with me that's so good though so that's what I'm I I so I I think it's safer to say God is just creating space for a conversation with her so he's creating space for her to to dialogue with himself and so if God is asking like even when he says Cain where is your brother he's creating space for him to to deal with his anger and to deal with his sin and so it's not it's not all this like yeah yeah it's let's stick to what God is revealing about himself instead of putting our imagination in the text and making it say something it's not saying so so the question is what is God trying to reveal about himself here with Hagar he does reveal that he's a God that sees the text tells us yeah you know what I'm saying so she says he says Where have you come from she answers the question yeah she says I am fleeing from my Mr Sarai he also says where are you going she does not answer that part because she don't know but guess who does God he says the angel of the Lord says to her uh return to your mistress and submit to her now I need to point out real quick that the angel of the Lord is the Lord because you see Angel of the Lord in scripture often and sometimes we can get really caught up by the word Angel and we think oh Angel created being that God made this seraphim cherubim um you know like the angels that came the lot etc etc but Angel is a category all it means is Messenger so that means that the context of the passage has to influence what kind of messenger we're dealing with what is the context of the pastor say here it says that she will eventually say in verse 13 so she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her you are a god of singing so that means that this is not the cherubim that around our seraphim that were around the throne in Isaiah 16 holy holy holy this is the one on the throne who is meeting her in the wilderness not not in Jerusalem not in the temple uh not in heaven not in glory not on Mount Sinai in a desert place the angel of the Lord comes to her and reveals himself that's good that's good you want me to keep going no no no I just love I just love that I love the fact that she that she she leaves this place but she doesn't really know where she's going right and that's I I'm reflecting on my own life when I left so many different difficult circumstances but I didn't really know where I was going now I was just aimless I was just I was like you know I'm leaving what I don't like but I'm I'm walking aimlessly because I don't I don't know um but because God saw me and he he's before he before I was formed into my mother's womb he saw me right he came and he met me and said you know what I know you know the life that you live wasn't wasn't the move it wasn't it wasn't the life that you wanted and I know you don't know where you're going but you know I'm going to give you Vision I'm going to give you Direction I'm going to give you myself but here's the heart here's the hard part I think this is this is a a Prosperity preacher is a keyless heel that's probably why they don't teach this text which is he tells her where she's going which is back into suffering that's the vision he gives her yeah it ain't oh yeah I'ma set you on the high mountain I'm gonna let you go all the way no no no go back and submit to Sarai yeah that's what makes this text complicated and this is one of the things that we pray for one day in the bed when you was thinking about you know teaching this text because we I knew you knew that you were going to teach this you know amongst women so many women with so many different backgrounds who probably have you know suffered a great deal of you know oppression you know persecution uh you know all of these things and so for you to teach the text man that says this woman left a bad situation the Lord met her and told her to go back yeah yeah that's that's that's hard yeah well one thing I think we there's a few things we need to be careful of which is this is descriptive not prescriptive explain that so prescriptive is like uh the Ten Commandments or uh when they go to Jesus and say hey uh what do you say the greatest Commandments are he says love the Lord your God with all your heart all your mind all your soul right that is that is prescriptive meaning I I am prescribing this for everyone everybody is to obey God with all of their heart all of their mind all of their soul this is descriptive in that they are telling us a story that applies to Hagar right and so God came comes to Hagar and tells Hagar to go back and submit to Syria I'm telling everybody else yeah so I would I would hate if someone would abuse this passage and use it as reason for you to go back and submit to an abusive husband yeah or to submit to an abusive job yeah that you can't take a narrative that is very specific to this individual woman and apply it to Every Other Woman in every other context that's not because God has a particular plan in this story and his plan might not be the plan for everybody correct and so yeah correct because God also cares about safety yeah God also cares about dignity God also cares about Justice let's be clear and so I think if a woman is in an abusive situation with a husband or a man or whatever the case may be I don't think the Lord will be out here like yeah go go submit to him even if it'll cost you cost you your life that's not God's heart yeah because because God does care about safety I think the the main thing that we have to just trust is God good because if God is good you can obey him even when it seems like he's telling you to do something crazy because you know if he's telling you to go back he's good enough to protect you when you do yes and so that's that's the main thing it's kind of like okay you telling her to go back to an abusive situation but it's like am I not the guy even over this abusive system and even we have to go back to the text it says that Sarai dealt harshly we don't know what that means yeah right and so we don't know if that that just couldn't mean harsh labor it could mean she was mean to her verbally like it could it could mean physical abuse but we don't know yeah and so again it would be a disservice to people and even to this text to apply this universally to everyone who is in a hard situation that's good um that's one two we also don't want to read our African-American Heritage into this text let's talk about it because we could see the word slave and servant and be like see the white people was right you know what I'm saying like slaves submit to your Masters it's like Old Testament slavery is not the same as pre-silver well pre-civil War chattel slavery one this is not race-based she is not a slave because she is black she is not a slave because she comes from Africa right two it's not intergenerational yeah and uh pre-civil War child of slavery if you were born into slavery you stayed in slavery your children children children like Generations worth of sleep there was no Freedom right so it's not intergenerational and it's not a lifelong we've we eventually see in Genesis is 20 something when they paid off that where no she she's eventually emancipated yeah yeah like she her and uh Sarah get into it because Isaac laughs or Ishmael laughs at Isaac or something like that and the Lord goes to Abram and says send her on her way yeah yeah like let her go and where she go she goes back to Egypt and so it's just not the same so again when we get to the point where he says hey go and submit to Sarah do not read your context or another woman's context or even your heritage into this text let the text say what the text means that's good that's good now back to the point God sends her back into suffering why you want me to say yeah like being loved by God does not absolve us from difficulty yeah yeah and like yeah because because I when I think about suffering I think about um my mind automatically goes to First Peter 4 12. well it talks about um you know not suffering as an evildoer not suffering as a meddler but it says suffer as one who does not don't suffer as basically said don't suffer as one who does not know the lord it's first Peter 4 uh 12. it turned to real quick because I'm I'm like butchering the text I'm trying to like memory because I actually think it's in Peter first Peter 4 starting at the 12 verse it says Be Loved do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you though something was strange was happening to you but rejoice in so far as you're sharing Christ's sufferings that you may that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed for if you are insulted for the name of Christ you are blessed because the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you uh but let none of you suffer as a murderer or thief or or evildoer or meddler yet if anyone suffers as a Christian let them not be ashamed let them glorify God in their name and I love that because it's literally just talking about like you know though basically saying the whole world is going to suffer right Christians and non-christians but after the world suffers there's more suffering right but after we suffer there's Glory yeah yeah right but not only that suffering produces an endurance in US yeah it produces it refines us right uh I love at the end of this passage it says um it says for this for the staff of judgment to begin at the household of God and if it begins with and if it begins with us what would be the outcome of those who do not obey the gospel of God and so essentially what it's saying is like God is going to use the judge the whole world by way of suffering but he's going to judge the world um differently to how he judge um he's going to judge the world differently how you judge the church right he's going to use suffering to condemn the world but he's going to use suffering to purify church it's going to purify us it's going to refine us so when he comes he can judge us good right and so this suffering God is using suffering to essentially judge the whole world but he's not our suffering is not going to be used ultimately to to to to judge us to condemn us but it's going to be used so that God can come back and judge us holy and so when I see her I see this woman being shaped that's good by the Lord through her suffering right um God is sanctifying it's not that God is being cruel to her God literally has her in mind I'm preparing you for myself you know what I'm saying in a way and so I don't know that's what I think about suffering that's excellent because foreign I think when I think of Hagar and I think of me and I think of what I've been through or what I've seen other people go through I think many times we are encouraged by the fact that God sees us in our suffering that is encouraging to know that like okay God has his eye on me that God really he he's not he doesn't have a blind eye to my suffering like even when you look at uh before God uh freed Israel out of Egypt he says I have seen the Affliction of my people it is in Egypt I have heard their cry I know their sufferings like like he it's a very um God is very much alive as it relates to his people yet at the same time so I I think we we're encouraged by God's seeing us but I wonder how often we look at our own suffering and see it as an opportunity to identify with Christ himself where it's like yeah he sees me but have I ever considered that he went through the same things and yet is sinless like like if Christ went through suffering if if like Philippians 2 for example like he let me read it all right I can't read it Philippians 2 it says Christ Jesus who though he was in the form of God did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped but emptied himself by taking on the form of what a servant what was Hagar a servant being born in the likeness of men and being found in human form he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death obedient submission even death on a cross therefore God has highly exalted him meaning like God tells Hagar to do what Christ himself would eventually incarnate and do you know what I'm saying like the Lord the angel of the Lord who who sees her will then become man and submit himself to suffering submit himself to human weakness even going so far as to become obedient to the point of death even death on the cross and so if we have a master who himself submitted to suffering as in in obedience to God how could we think that he would require anything less of us that's good that's real good you know what I'm saying yeah God isn't telling you to do nothing he ain't didn't he did it like he did far more exceedingly and abundantly above than what Hagar was at that was minor I'm not saying it wasn't hard I'm not saying it wasn't difficult but she was not the creator of the universe she was not God she was not the alpha in Omega she was not the king of kings she she was not him so for him to choose to suffer when he himself is also a king does not make any sense yeah that's good um now we can wrap this up now um I think it's important to know that when God sends her back into Abram's house he does not send her back empty-handed the the angel of the Lord gives her promises and it gives her Assurance which is good news the angel of the Lord says return to your mistress and submit to her angel the Lord said I will surely multiply your Offspring so that they cannot be number for multitude who does that sound like Abram like he he gives her a similar promise that he gave to Abram in Genesis 12 which is that she will not just have a son but she will have a nation yeah um back in those times having children was understood as uh so for example earlier in the text she says uh go into my servant Hagar it may be that I will be what did she say that I shall obtain children by her when you look at the Hebrew it actually says that I shall be built up by her meaning that having a child was seen and considered as having the same stability as a house so imagine not just having a child but a nation wow like God ain't making her house he's making her a mansion that's good like he's giving her Ultimate Security and stability so that's one promise he also says that you will bear a son his name will be Ishmael because the Lord has listened to your Affliction he shall shall be a wild donkey of a man his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him he will dwell over against his Kinsmen that's actually a consequence because the ishmaelites will be in direct opposition to Israel which was a consequence of surah's sin yet at the same time what God is promising is that if he is a wild donkey he don't mean that he's gonna be ugly he mean like that he's going to be a stallion yeah he's going to be free free he's not going to be subjugated yeah he's not gonna be a servant he's not gonna be a slave like his mother's had to be and what is the Assurance the assurances in verse 13 so she called the name no it's not it's in verse 11. he says you shall call his name Ishmael because the Lord has listened to your Affliction it's really easy to skip past that as a like as a when you study the Bible take your time like like take your time like all of it can preach you shall call his name Ishmael because the Lord has listened to your Affliction his name means God hears now imagine this little boy being born and every time Abram and Sarai say his name they're reminded about the nature of God God hears stop playing with the God hears come come to dinner got like like every they have to they have to testify something true about God yeah even in saying his name and it's a truth that actually condemns their sin because if God can hear her suffering God can also hear your sin yeah and so I think I can imagine that in them saying his name over and over and over again it actually gave them pause and how they treated Hagar yeah absolutely but it also I think points back to the intentionality of God because he understands his creation he understands that we are people like we said in the beginning that have the tendency to forget and so he's like I'm gonna name have y'all named him something or y'all are forced to remember which is all the Old Testament right that's why we need to name our children better names because these names was always like prophecies or testimonies you know the brick of shawl come here because even coming to break a shawl Isaac's next what does that mean Isaac's name means laughter and that don't mean nothing if you don't remember that later when the angel comes and speaks to uh Abram and says hey your your wife is going to give birth to a son this time next year what is what does Sarah do she laughs that's how that's our main takeaway name y'all kids from old testament names uh our sound got his name back there his name is abishad yeah yeah yeah that's a powerful name that is a powerful name I think but yeah but uh this is good though let me finish I wasn't trying to wrap you up I'm just saying oh you're encouraged encouraged okay so she calls the name of the Lord who spoke to her you are a god of sin because she said truly here I've seen him who looks after me when I've taught this to women I've tried to point out how sometimes when you read passages like this you can import your feelings into the text and translate it in such a way that it honors your feelings and actually dishonors the text yeah and so you could say man like God is bogus and you go into it looking at God a certain kind of way but have you given Hagar the Dignity of defining how we should understand him she doesn't respond to him sending her back with contempt in the same way she does Sarai she doesn't respond with confusion even she responds In Praise she says you are a god of seeing therefore Hagar's response to what God calls her to do should inform our response to how we understand what he called it that's good let the text help you understand the text amen verse I'ma end it by saying that in verse 15 it says and Hagar bore Abram a son and Abram called the name of his son whom Hagar bore did not even mention this era notice that Ishmael that's a beautiful text because it seems so small but that means that Hagar went back to Abram's house told Abram what God Said and he listened to her wow he honored what he believed like this is a man in Old Testament times with with the men named their children right yeah yeah and so he believed her testimony of what God had said that is significant when you move forward to John 5 because how does this text point to Jesus when we get to John 5 we see there is a woman in a Wilderness place next to a spring of water who meets a man who reveals himself as God and she ends up leaving her water jar goes to the town and gives her testimony about what he said and she says I have seen a man who has told me everything I have ever done she is basically saying I've met Elroy wow I have seen The God Who has seen me that's how you point that text to Jesus that's it mic drop that was good look at you ditto bye yeah

Channel: With The Perrys

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Length: 66min 37sec (3997 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 26 2023